Yet Another Cycling Forum

General Category => Audax => PBP 2019 => Topic started by: Moleman76 on November 20, 2014, 12:43:05 am

Title: Tips for PBP - Not the usual! -- a link
Post by: Moleman76 on November 20, 2014, 12:43:05 am
There's a thread  with the heading

Tips for PBP - Not the usual!

on

randon@googlegroups.com

I'm not planning on visiting France next summer, but do find that the comments are very interesting - both for PBP itself and randonneur riding in general
Title: Re: Tips for PBP - Not the usual! -- a link
Post by: vorsprung on November 20, 2014, 02:00:09 pm
This the link to that discussion I see on google groups

https://groups.google.com/forum/?hl=en&pli=1#!topic/randon/SnqUG4txI5U

99% moronic USAian misinformation.  For example: several people claim it's difficult to find food and drink on the route??!??
Title: Re: Tips for PBP - Not the usual! -- a link
Post by: LittleWheelsandBig on November 20, 2014, 02:18:56 pm
I think those responses might relate to (massive generalisation) the typical USA newbie PBPer's tendency to overplan everything, combined with a lack of adaptability when things don't go according to plan.
Title: Re: Tips for PBP - Not the usual! -- a link
Post by: Andrew on November 20, 2014, 02:28:27 pm
For example: several people claim it's difficult to find food and drink on the route??!??

In fairness, there are sections where there is little or nothing available... by other peoples standards or experiences anyway. Some give the impression that the entire route is lined 24 hours a day by villagers handing out grub in a very 'party time' spirit. That certainly is not my experience either. I recall sections where I could have been out on one of my own rides; nobody around and miles between mainly closed towns.
Title: Re: Tips for PBP - Not the usual! -- a link
Post by: Redlight on November 20, 2014, 02:36:40 pm
Reminds me of the US rider I met last time, near Brest, who told me that her club was not eating or sleeping at the controls but instead had "safe houses" at various points along the way.  I think she thought she was on Petra-Baghdad-Petra, or similar.
Title: Re: Tips for PBP - Not the usual! -- a link
Post by: Andrew on November 20, 2014, 02:49:46 pm
I think the only advice offered there that made me raise my eyebrows was "avoid the controls". The obvious aside, I would say the experience of the controls is part of the PBP package. I know what was being said but I personally wouldn't have said 'avoid'.

We all have our own experiences though and it is difficult to objectively give advice without flavouring it.
Title: Re: Tips for PBP - Not the usual! -- a link
Post by: Exit Stage Left on November 20, 2014, 04:36:39 pm
Lots of sensible advice there. I've been suggesting pit-stopping at Lidl in Gorron for the last two PBPs, picking up sandwiches and own-brand cola, so that you can use the buvette at Fougeres, which makes that control a one-stop-shop. I've checked recently, and that shop has closed down.
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@48.4137418,-0.8305219,3a,75y,314.3h,80.31t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1s_ZgqrVjZojMgcKDQ-q32zA!2e0?hl=en

If you move forward a few metres, street view is May 2011, and Lidl is open.
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@48.4139086,-0.8308453,3a,75y,314.3h,80.31t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1sO757Q5DBKtXZMePMFZlRiQ!2e0?hl=en

Netto is still there at Tinteniac, but it's not obvious.
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@48.3286611,-1.8388465,3a,75y,205.75h,91.38t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1saNa_GeTNylXrsZwwVut8Cg!2e0?hl=en
Shops have been closing in rural France at a rapid rate. There used to be a bakers in Tremblay-les-Villages that handed out free water in the first night, that's closed and was in 2011. Bars are expensive, with a bottle of Coke costing over 2 Euros, 10 times the price of a discount store.

It's noticeable that some comments are from Australia. Their experience is like the USA, small fields and petrol station convenience stores. For us PBP is like going to Mexico from Southern Texas, a bit disorientating, but within known limits.

For the Aussies and North Americans it's like us going straight to Mexico and participating in a 5,000 participant 1200km ride. I'd be doing lots of research for something like that, and I'd be asking how long ago people did the ride. The time before last is 8 years ago. More than enough time for a huge megastore to open 2 miles from the route and kill every shop in the area.
Title: Re: Tips for PBP - Not the usual! -- a link
Post by: nextSibling on November 20, 2014, 06:13:25 pm
99% moronic USAian misinformation.

^^^ 100% smug British contempt.
Title: Re: Tips for PBP - Not the usual! -- a link
Post by: recumbentim on November 20, 2014, 09:52:39 pm
Learn how to stop your tail light flashing ? I must remember to spend hours practicing this?
Title: Re: Tips for PBP - Not the usual! -- a link
Post by: Veloman on November 20, 2014, 09:55:24 pm
Learn how to stop your tail light flashing ? I must remember to spend hours practicing this?

Would help for some as it was an easy way to spot UK riders. Doh!
Title: Re: Tips for PBP - Not the usual! -- a link
Post by: valkyrie on November 20, 2014, 10:56:11 pm
"Time Penalties for riding two abreast" - never heard of that one.
Title: Re: Tips for PBP - Not the usual! -- a link
Post by: Exit Stage Left on November 20, 2014, 10:59:43 pm
It's ironic that we think they don't do irony.
Title: Re: Tips for PBP - Not the usual! -- a link
Post by: Wobbly on November 20, 2014, 11:05:10 pm
Much as I dislike racial stereotyping it's hard not to view those from the USofA as a bunch of whiny girly boys* when you read some of the comments on the Randon Google Group.

(*"girly boys" is officially sanctioned by the ex Mayor of Los Angeles Alfred Schwarzenator and therefore not homophobic)

Either that or each time I've managed to ride a completely different PBP to the thing they're describing.

No food? No water?

Food and water is available everywhere. I've never seen so many people outside their homes offering all and sundry food and drink (and moral support "Bravo", "Bon Route", etc)

And France has shops and supermarkets. Quite a lot of them. The chap who said they rode all the way through Brest without finding anywhere to get water needs to be humanely put to sleep. Or at least humanely refused a visa the next time he wants to travel outside his 24 hour McDonalds world.

I hate the general anti-French tone of their posts. France is not a third world country. They do have clean toilets.

But most of all I hate the fact that they've completely lost sight of the fact that randonneuring is about self-sufficiency. Bitching about the length of time you have to queue at a control to get a cooked meal misses the point of the undertaking somewhat.
Title: Re: Tips for PBP - Not the usual! -- a link
Post by: Deano on November 20, 2014, 11:17:52 pm
I wonder what they'd have made of the endless discussions about the EU regulations regarding hi-viz jackets on here four years ago...

Mind you, it did remind me of an American rider who just couldn't handle the toilets at Villaines. I saw him open the door of one portaloo, look at the hole, shake his head and move onto the next one, which was exactly the same. He was still standing and staring when I scarpered, having filled my water bottle.
Title: Re: Tips for PBP - Not the usual! -- a link
Post by: Karla on November 20, 2014, 11:29:17 pm
"Time Penalties for riding two abreast" - never heard of that one.

I've heard that riding to Brest is an extremely silly idea: it takes up 30 or 40 hours of your life ;)
Title: Re: Tips for PBP - Not the usual! -- a link
Post by: Exit Stage Left on November 21, 2014, 09:56:29 am
There was a request from RUSA for articles about first time PBP articles for the spring edition of American Randonneur. So I'd expect potential contributors to be throwing stuff against the wall to see what sticks.

Maybe we could have some sort of 'US Friendly' badge made up for receptive British riders, so the sensitive flowers don't get bothered. Then they'd be able to mention that in an article. The magazine's a good read.
http://www.rusa.org/Download/nl/2013-03.pdf
Title: Re: Tips for PBP - Not the usual! -- a link
Post by: mattc on November 21, 2014, 10:13:54 am
I wonder what they'd have made of the endless discussions about the EU regulations regarding hi-viz jackets on here four years ago...

Well exactly! I dont think YACF-AUKs are in a strong position here.
Title: Re: Tips for PBP - Not the usual! -- a link
Post by: T42 on November 21, 2014, 11:23:22 am
I saw him open the door of one portaloo, look at the hole, shake his head and move onto the next one, which was exactly the same. He was still standing and staring when I scarpered, having filled my water bottle.

...with what? ;D
Title: Re: Tips for PBP - Not the usual! -- a link
Post by: vorsprung on November 21, 2014, 11:34:51 am
99% moronic USAian misinformation.
^^^ 100% smug British contempt.

I've read randon newsgroup before and this thread is fairly typical

I'm sure there are many, many useful nuggets of information that inhabitants of the United States of America can give us on how to ride PBP.  But on randon these bits of advice are mixed in with all kinds of other stuff.  The signal to noise ratio is low. 

Sorry for calling you morons, that wasn't necessary
Title: Re: Tips for PBP - Not the usual! -- a link
Post by: vorsprung on November 21, 2014, 11:41:50 am
For example: several people claim it's difficult to find food and drink on the route??!??

In fairness, there are sections where there is little or nothing available... by other peoples standards or experiences anyway. Some give the impression that the entire route is lined 24 hours a day by villagers handing out grub in a very 'party time' spirit. That certainly is not my experience either. I recall sections where I could have been out on one of my own rides; nobody around and miles between mainly closed towns.

There are certainly *some* bits where there is nothing doing for miles and miles, particularly late at night.  But there are no sections of 100 miles across an uninhabited desert

There are occassional people offering free hostipality in their homes + tabacs that are open seeminging 24h for the duration of the event.

My take is that anyone that's qualified for PBP should be able to think "hmm, it's dark, it's a long way on this next leg so I'd better fill up the bottles and grab a sandwich for later".  It's sort of audax 101
Title: Re: Tips for PBP - Not the usual! -- a link
Post by: vorsprung on November 21, 2014, 11:46:12 am
Learn how to stop your tail light flashing ? I must remember to spend hours practicing this?

It is intensely irritating to other riders and explictly disallowed in the rules

Some tail lights require a complicated set of button presses to turn off flashing.  This sequence is less than obvious after 30 hours awake, I suppose
Title: Re: Tips for PBP - Not the usual! -- a link
Post by: Cycling Daddy on November 21, 2014, 12:15:25 pm
Learn how to stop your tail light flashing ? I must remember to spend hours practicing this?

It is intensely irritating to other riders and explicitly disallowed in the rules

Some tail lights require a complicated set of button presses to turn off flashing.  This sequence is less than obvious after 30 hours awake, I suppose
It is also contrary to French law. The single file suggestion may relate to the law that forbids cycling two abreast in the dark, but I thought that was the sort of French regulation w that got ignored.
L
Title: Re: Tips for PBP - Not the usual! -- a link
Post by: Exit Stage Left on November 21, 2014, 12:16:06 pm
I did some study of national differences in key attitudes before filming PBP and LEL. Obviously information can only ever be general, but  attitudes to Uncertainty Avoidance are key in the uncertain environment of PBP. This is what Hofstede says about the USA, UK and France. There's a bit of a clash.

The US scores below average, with a low score of 46, on the Uncertainty Avoidance dimension. . As a consequence, the perceived context in which Americans find themselves will impact their behaviour more than if the culture would have either scored higher or lower. Thus, this cultural pattern reflects itself as follows:

There is a fair degree of acceptance for new ideas, innovative products and a willingness to try something new or different, whether it pertains to technology, business practices or food.  Americans tend to be more tolerant of ideas or opinions from anyone and allow the freedom of expression.  At the same time, Americans do not require a lot of rules and are less emotionally expressive than higher-scoring cultures.
At the same time, 9/11 has created a lot of fear in the American society culminating in the efforts of government to monitor everybody through the NSA and other security organisations


At 35 the UK has a low score on uncertainty avoidance which means that as a nation they are quite happy to wake up not knowing what the day brings and they are happy to ‘make it up as they go along’ changing plans as new information comes to light. As a low UAI country the British are comfortable in ambiguous situations - the term ‘muddling through’ is a very British way of expressing this. There are generally not too many rules in British society, but those that are there are adhered to (the most famous of which of of course the British love of queuing which has also to do with the values of fair play).

In work terms this results in planning that is not detail oriented – the end goal will be clear (due to high MAS) but the detail of how we get there will  be light and the actual process fluid and flexible to emerging and changing environment. Planning horizons will also be shorter. Most importantly the combination of a highly individualistic and curious nation is a high level of creativity and strong need for innovation. What is different is attractive! This emerges throughout the society in both its humour, heavy consumerism for new and innovative products and the fast highly creative industries it thrives in – advertising, marketing, financial engineering.


At 86, French culture scores high on Uncertainty Avoidance. This is clearly evident in the following:

The French don’t like surprises. Structure and planning are required.
Before meetings and negotiations they like to receive all necessary information.
As a consequence, the French are good in developing complex technologies and systems in a stable environment, such as in the case of nuclear power plants, rapid trains and the aviation industry.
There is also a need for emotional safety valves as a high score on Uncertainty Avoidance and the combination of high Power Distance and high Individualism strengthen each other, so to speak. The French, for example, are very talkative and “engueuler”, giving someone the sharp edge of one’s tongue happens often.
There is a strong need for laws, rules and regulations to structure life. This, however, doesn’t mean that most Frenchmen will try to follow all these rules, the same as in other Latin countries. Given the high score on Power Distance, which means that power holders have privileges, power holders don’t necessarily feel obliged to follow all those rules which are meant to control the people in the street. At the same time, commonners try to relate to power holders so that they can also claim the exception to the rule.

It's interesting to see how the USA differs from the UK and France.

http://geert-hofstede.com/united-states.html
Title: Re: Tips for PBP - Not the usual! -- a link
Post by: Veloman on November 21, 2014, 02:41:35 pm
........... http://geert-hofstede.com/united-states.html

An interesting study of IBM employees from many years ago that may, or may not, be relevant to audax as an indication of human behaviour and culture.

I think anyone who sets out on a long audax should be aware of the uncertainty ahead of them!
Title: Re: Tips for PBP - Not the usual! -- a link
Post by: Exit Stage Left on November 21, 2014, 02:51:28 pm
It's very easy to criticise those from the USA for not being good at being British.

Likewise it's easier for some Brits to cope with France than others. French attitudes can seem like OCD to us freewheeling types, but with an undercurrent of unfairness
Title: Re: Tips for PBP - Not the usual! -- a link
Post by: Andrew on November 21, 2014, 03:41:20 pm
I can certainly see that French society is regulated more so than the UK. I find the French to be very conservative, with a love of/for tradition and heritage. Change is slow and requires much discussion.

These things smack you in the face daily in the most mundane of circumstances.
Title: Re: Tips for PBP - Not the usual! -- a link
Post by: Exit Stage Left on November 21, 2014, 03:53:36 pm
I've done PBP four times and been to Semaine Federale since 2008. It seems to me that the respect accorded to those on committees makes these large events possible. But the detailed large scale planning of those events makes them a bit inflexible. Anything that we can do to flow around problems helps.
Nothing is paid for upfront, so the only point of contact we need are the control check ins. But in practical terms there is nowhere else to eat at 4am.
Title: Re: Tips for PBP - Not the usual! -- a link
Post by: T42 on November 21, 2014, 04:32:08 pm
Learn how to stop your tail light flashing ? I must remember to spend hours practicing this?

It is intensely irritating to other riders and explicitly disallowed in the rules

Some tail lights require a complicated set of button presses to turn off flashing.  This sequence is less than obvious after 30 hours awake, I suppose
It is also contrary to French law. The single file suggestion may relate to the law that forbids cycling two abreast in the dark, but I thought that was the sort of French regulation w that got ignored.
L

Current French law is that you may have a blinking rearlight if you also have one that doesn't blink.
Title: Re: Tips for PBP - Not the usual! -- a link
Post by: Veloman on November 21, 2014, 04:35:17 pm
Current French law is that you may have a blinking rearlight if you also have one that doesn't blink.

"Zut alors!"
Title: Re: Tips for PBP - Not the usual! -- a link
Post by: fboab on November 21, 2014, 04:44:29 pm
Current French law is that you may have a blinking rearlight if you also have one that doesn't blink.

I might have to rethink my plans to do the ride. I fecking hate flashing lights with a noisy self righteous passion.

At least I could be right in more than just my own universe when they were still banned.
Title: Re: Tips for PBP - Not the usual! -- a link
Post by: Andrew on November 21, 2014, 04:50:40 pm
Speaking of laws to be obeyed, and introducing THAT subject (you know, the one we've ALL been waiting for) hi-viz vests.

On PBP 2011, I saw, with my very own fatigue-free eyes, riders being pulled over (and maybe even fined) for, as it transpired, not wearing hi-viz. I wasn't wearing mine at the time either, because I didn't want to stop to put it on, but quickly rectified that.

It was still light but fading... dusk as they say I guess.
Title: Re: Tips for PBP - Not the usual! -- a link
Post by: marcusjb on November 21, 2014, 04:51:21 pm
I am rather hoping that ACP keep the rule in place, despite the law.  Made the ride rather more pleasant and the effect of the red ribbon stretching for miles ahead of you on night one would be less if rear lights were flashing.

I only saw a couple of transgressions of it in 2011 (both RUSA riders coincidentally!).

Title: Re: Tips for PBP - Not the usual! -- a link
Post by: Cycling Daddy on November 21, 2014, 06:38:45 pm
Speaking of laws to be obeyed, and introducing THAT subject (you know, the one we've ALL been waiting for) hi-viz vests.

On PBP 2011, I saw, with my very own fatigue-free eyes, riders being pulled over (and maybe even fined) for, as it transpired, not wearing hi-viz. I wasn't wearing mine at the time either, because I didn't want to stop to put it on, but quickly rectified that.

It was still light but fading... dusk as they say I guess.
Never mind the hi viz I need to know what the rules are for dust caps  ???
Title: Re: Tips for PBP - Not the usual! -- a link
Post by: Andrij on November 21, 2014, 06:44:24 pm
Discussions like this make me wonder if I can get into shape for PBP next year.  Imagine the potential for befuddlement caused by am American who rides like a Brit.   ;D
Title: Re: Tips for PBP - Not the usual! -- a link
Post by: Frank9755 on November 21, 2014, 06:53:51 pm
Speaking of laws to be obeyed, and introducing THAT subject (you know, the one we've ALL been waiting for) hi-viz vests.

On PBP 2011, I saw, with my very own fatigue-free eyes, riders being pulled over (and maybe even fined) for, as it transpired, not wearing hi-viz. I wasn't wearing mine at the time either, because I didn't want to stop to put it on, but quickly rectified that.

It was still light but fading... dusk as they say I guess.

I was pulled over by one of the chaps on scooters.  It was early in the morning, just before sunrise but quite light, and it had got a bit cold, so I put my see-through race-cape (with reflective strips) on top of my PBP gilet.  No question of a fine, but he politely asked me to rearrange my layers.
Title: Re: Tips for PBP - Not the usual! -- a link
Post by: Cycling Daddy on November 23, 2014, 07:28:37 am
You might want to keep an eye on the website a date change looks possible (+1 day see http://www.audax.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=395.0)
Title: Re: Tips for PBP - Not the usual! -- a link
Post by: innermoss11 on November 23, 2014, 10:55:43 am
after living in the States and doing an SR series there in 2007, I find it hard to sneer at email threads like the Randon group. Admittedly some of the posts are clueless and others are irritating but tucked away in the mob there are voices that remind me of the experienced randonneurs that I was lucky to meet during my time there. The UK and US riders  share more common traits than differences - but for sure the differences can be amusing/irritating.  For a lot of the US riders the trip to France may be their first time abroad - even in a city like NYC, you can't assume that every America has a passport - in fact only a minority have a valid passport. It's just one of those things.  I would like to see an email thread resulting from 500 UK riders having to travel to Louisiana to do a 1200km ride - pretty certain there would be some howlers in the emails which describe the likely misunderstandings....
Title: Re: Tips for PBP - Not the usual! -- a link
Post by: LittleWheelsandBig on November 23, 2014, 11:41:09 am
There are some vastly experienced RUSA folk contributing to that thread, along with several numpties. True about the passport thing - at 2011 Texas Rando Stampede, one of the riders was out of his US state for the first time, let alone owning a passport.

It is just very easy to take the piss when some folk essentially recommend an approach that basically isolates them from the joys of riding PBP as much as is physically possible. If you ignore the controls to save time, sleep in pre-booked rooms, avoid opportunities to socialise with riders from round the world and minimise mixing with the locals just to save time off the bike, why bother going to France? Ride a 1200 in your own country and never get out of your comfort zone. Many RUSA members now avoid riding PBP in favour of their own events and it isn't surprising if your intent is to eliminate any differences from your regular events.

A sub-60 hour PBP finish is admirably quick (and might be worth sacrificing these other aspects for) but everybody gets the same medal. There is no certainty that a rider will be able to come back in 4 years' time to do PBP again and some opportunities will never be repeated, no matter how many times you ride the event.
Title: Re: Tips for PBP - Not the usual! -- a link
Post by: simonp on November 23, 2014, 12:47:50 pm
You might want to keep an eye on the website a date change looks possible (+1 day see http://www.audax.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=395.0)

For those that can't read this it says a final decision will be known in about 10 days.
Title: Re: Tips for PBP - Not the usual! -- a link
Post by: Mr Larrington on November 23, 2014, 12:50:14 pm
Last year one of those scam e-mails saying "Help!  I am stuck in $ABROAD!  Send money!" was doing the rounds, purporting to come from my mate Al.  In Manila.  We were swiftly reassured that he hadn't lost his passport in Manila, as he hadn't got one.

Mind you, he's in the process of acquiring Canadian citizenship so I suppose he'll have to get one soon.
Title: Re: Tips for PBP - Not the usual! -- a link
Post by: Redlight on November 23, 2014, 02:41:27 pm
You might want to keep an eye on the website a date change looks possible (+1 day see http://www.audax.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=395.0)

Hmm. Pigeons... meet the cat  :demon:

Personally, I'd prefer a Monday start and Friday finish as it's simpler from a holiday time booking perspective and you can do it with 5 days off as opposed to 6, but I wouldn't like to be someone who has booked complicated or long distance travel arrangements on the assumption that they would finish sometime on Thursday and travel home the next day.

I imagine there will be a lot of discussion in anticipation of the decision in 10 days' time.  Separate thread, Mr Mod?
Title: Re: Tips for PBP - Not the usual! -- a link
Post by: rob on November 23, 2014, 04:24:06 pm
You might want to keep an eye on the website a date change looks possible (+1 day see http://www.audax.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=395.0)

Hmm. Pigeons... meet the cat  :demon:

Personally, I'd prefer a Monday start and Friday finish as it's simpler from a holiday time booking perspective and you can do it with 5 days off as opposed to 6, but I wouldn't like to be someone who has booked complicated or long distance travel arrangements on the assumption that they would finish sometime on Thursday and travel home the next day.

I imagine there will be a lot of discussion in anticipation of the decision in 10 days' time.  Separate thread, Mr Mod?

Easy either way, although I had said I'd be home Friday afternoon.   Being well prepared I've already booked my hotels.   Being even better prepared I booked flexible rates.
Title: Re: Tips for PBP - Not the usual! -- a link
Post by: vorsprung on November 23, 2014, 07:50:40 pm
I would like to see an email thread resulting from 500 UK riders having to travel to Louisiana to do a 1200km ride - pretty certain there would be some howlers..

No offence but really, why would I go to the southern United States to ride a bike? 
Title: Re: Tips for PBP - Not the usual! -- a link
Post by: Veloman on November 23, 2014, 07:55:43 pm
I would like to see an email thread resulting from 500 UK riders having to travel to Louisiana to do a 1200km ride - pretty certain there would be some howlers..

No offence but really, why would I go to the southern United States to ride a bike?

For the experience!

Just as well other folk do not take that view with regards to travelling to UK for LEL or even France for PBP.

I quite fancy riding in the USA, Australia, Korea, Japan and a few other places. Just as well folk in UK don't say "why would I go to the South West (or wherever) to ride a bike?"
Title: Re: Tips for PBP - Not the usual! -- a link
Post by: Cycling Daddy on November 23, 2014, 08:07:31 pm
There is a choice Florida ride coming up I think.  Key West to Fort Meyers (sunshine, considerate drivers, plenty of 24 hour food great support...what is not to like??)
L
Title: Re: Tips for PBP - Not the usual! -- a link
Post by: Exit Stage Left on November 23, 2014, 09:25:12 pm
I would like to see an email thread resulting from 500 UK riders having to travel to Louisiana to do a 1200km ride - pretty certain there would be some howlers..

No offence but really, why would I go to the southern United States to ride a bike?

Some people did for the Natchez Trace 1500.

Quote
There is a magical roadway to the west.  It is a strip of smooth two-lane blacktop 444 miles long.  It is bordered by trees, fields, rivers, streams and many sights of historical significance.  Perhaps its most unique feature is that it is a National Historical Park maintained and operated with Federal funding.  It is the eighth most visited National Park in the country.  Its northern terminus abuts Nashville, Tennessee while the southernmost part is in Natchez, Mississippi.  The main purpose is recreation therefore no commercial vehicles are allowed.  The speed limit is never higher than 50 mph, which discourages vehicles from using it for transportation.  It is a perfect environment for the cyclist.  Neither hilly nor flat, slightly winding, and, impeccably maintained.  The roadway is known as the Natchez Trace Parkway.  Folks residing in the proximity of it refer to it as the "Trace".

http://mellowyellowbent.blogspot.co.uk/2014/10/fix-ing-natchez-trace-1500k.html
Title: Re: Tips for PBP - Not the usual! -- a link
Post by: wwatts on November 24, 2014, 03:49:05 am
I'm not sure that it is wise to judge national character on the basis of these postings on the Randon list--this was, after all, in response to a call for unusual tips.  I would say that the balance between parochial and cosmopolitan types is about the same in the US as it is in the UK--at least among randoneurs.  And, while  I am a northerner, and would be quite happy for the South to secede and keep their destructive politics to themselves, there are wonderful and interesting places to ride all over the south.  I'm a bit startled by the impulse to write off whole peoples and whole swaths of the earth--especially while pointing to the limited worldview of others.

Bill Watts
Title: Re: Tips for PBP - Not the usual! -- a link
Post by: Veloman on November 24, 2014, 09:23:32 am
I'm a bit startled by the impulse to write off whole peoples and whole swaths of the earth--especially while pointing to the limited worldview of others.

Bill Watts

I have no doubt some folk who post on YACF would feel perfectly at home in the 'South' while others would match your 'northern' viewpoint.  Part and parcel of internet forums and soooo easy to post something rather than say the same in a face-to-face manner.  I always take forums with 'a pinch of salt'!
Title: Re: Tips for PBP - Not the usual! -- a link
Post by: Bairdy on November 24, 2014, 09:39:52 am
Maybe Vorsprung meant that there's so much great cycling on offer closer to home in Europe.

It's been almost sixteen years since I was in the U.S. I'd like to go back and the south in particular is of interest to me for the music that's come out of there.
It would be great to go to Nashville, Muscle Shoals, Clarksdale but I'd probably want to see it properly at leisure rather than ride through it on a cycling event.
Title: Re: Tips for PBP - Not the usual! -- a link
Post by: marcusjb on November 24, 2014, 09:48:27 am
I would like to see an email thread resulting from 500 UK riders having to travel to Louisiana to do a 1200km ride - pretty certain there would be some howlers..

No offence but really, why would I go to the southern United States to ride a bike?

The food, definitely the food (though I am sure the people, scenery, culture would all be great because it's different and different is interesting and makes life's experiences). 

A long ride fuelled on Creole?  It'd be awesome.
Title: Re: Tips for PBP - Not the usual! -- a link
Post by: Mr Larrington on November 24, 2014, 10:24:19 am
There is a choice Florida ride coming up I think.  Key West to Fort Meyers (sunshine, considerate drivers, plenty of 24 hour food great support...what is not to like??)
L

Considerate drivers?  Florida?

(Boggles on both pistons)
Title: Re: Tips for PBP - Not the usual! -- a link
Post by: Exit Stage Left on November 24, 2014, 11:15:06 am
I'm not sure that it is wise to judge national character on the basis of these postings on the Randon list--this was, after all, in response to a call for unusual tips.  I would say that the balance between parochial and cosmopolitan types is about the same in the US as it is in the UK--at least among randoneurs. 

Bill Watts

I find myself looking at a lot of these discussions from both ends. I like to over-analyse things, in a Germanic fashion, but I'm located among people who don't. There a resonance for me in some descriptions of US Southerners.

Quote
Nisbett argues that many of the cultural traits of the modern South can be traced back to the heritage of the population's descendants. "The Scots-Irish were a herding people, while people from the north [of the U.S.] were English, German and Dutch farmers. Herding people are tough guys all over the world, and they are that because they have to establish that you can't trifle with them, and if you don't do that then you feel like you're at risk for losing your entire wealth, which is your herd. This creates a culture of honor, and the Scots-Irish are very much a culture of honor, and they carried that with them from the Deep South to the Mountain South, and then out through the western plains.

http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2009/10/the-scots-irish-vote/27853/

Culturally I don't identify with the mass of people between the rational and emotional extremes. In the USA the academic tradition is heavily influenced by the German idea of 'Bildung'.

Quote
Most explicitly in Hegel’s writings, the Bildung tradition rejects the pre-Kantian metaphysics of being for a post-Kantian metaphysics of experience that rejects universal narratives.

In this way, fulfillment is achieved through practical activity that promotes the development of one’s own individual talents and abilities which in turn lead to the development of one’s society. In this way, Bildung does not simply accept the socio-political status quo, but rather it includes the ability to engage in a critique of one’s society, and to ultimately challenge the society to actualize its own highest ideals.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bildung

So working to a goal through earnest enquiry is a US characteristic, more marked in those areas with Germanic/Scandinavian influence.

While to Brits, earnestness is a crime. In the US it's possible to get university course credits for it.

In the South, and in the rural upland UK, a respect for physical and emotional strength means that tasks such as Audax are closer to the 'natural' abilities of of the population. The same is true of Brittany, the Basque country and many other areas where pugnacity and toughness are valued. Look at Hinault for instance, as opposed to Fignon.

So my unusual tip is not to limit your potential pool of allies by riding with people who seem to be like yourself. Innate toughness can blend well with careful research, and the nature of the task sorts participants so that we are all more similar to each other than to people in general.

It's more important that allies share a common pace than similar attitudes. Paradoxically there's more potential for friction between those who share a language.
Title: Re: Tips for PBP - Not the usual! -- a link
Post by: Marcello on November 24, 2014, 12:46:18 pm
99% moronic USAian misinformation.  For example: several people claim it's difficult to find food and drink on the route??!??

If there are 5000 riders at PBP, there are going to be 5000 different experiences. My experience as a 90 hour recumbent rider in 2011: people handing out water saved me during those brutally hot first few hours after the start, but the only food I could find on the first 220 km to Villaines that first night was a crepe stand 2 km before the control in Mortaigne. Even Mortaigne was out of bread to make jambon beurre when I was there at midnight. All the way to Brest I was riding surrounded by a swarm of cycling locusts, and I stopped in boulangeries that had nothing left to sell when I was there. Queues for hot food at controles  were typically an hour long, and the food available was high protein and low carb, not what my starved body needed. So yes, for me it was harder to find food and drink on the PBP route than on any other audax I have done. My unusual tip for PBP is to avoid the 90 hour bulge if at all possible, and either ride with the 84 hour start or on the very latest 90 hour start. like the free starts of 2011. I learned my lesson, and I am going back next year and I plan to have a great time at PBP.

Title: Re: Tips for PBP - Not the usual! -- a link
Post by: simonp on November 24, 2014, 12:54:00 pm
I'm hoping to go for the 80h hour group, riding fixed. This should make it much easier, they tell me.
Title: Re: Tips for PBP - Not the usual! -- a link
Post by: marcusjb on November 24, 2014, 01:32:42 pm
I'm hoping to go for the 80h hour group, riding fixed. This should make it much easier, they tell me.

One half of the first sentence makes a lot of sense when used in conjunction with the second sentence.  The other half, well, I am having trouble with!

If I am not on the tandem, then I have two options currently - go for a time whilst I am still able to, or do it fixed for giggles.  The two are not 100% incompatible, but I'd be on gears if I am going for a time.
Title: Re: Tips for PBP - Not the usual! -- a link
Post by: vorsprung on November 24, 2014, 01:42:00 pm
99% moronic USAian misinformation.  For example: several people claim it's difficult to find food and drink on the route??!??

If there are 5000 riders at PBP, there are going to be 5000 different experiences.
That's so true..

Quote
My unusual tip for PBP is to avoid the 90 hour bulge if at all possible, and either ride with the 84 hour start or on the very latest 90 hour start. like the free starts of 2011. I learned my lesson, and I am going back next year and I plan to have a great time at PBP.
That's a fairly standard tip, the interest is how to do it.  I wasn't aiming to do this last time but I ended up ahead of the bulge all the way round
Title: Re: Tips for PBP - Not the usual! -- a link
Post by: zigzag on November 24, 2014, 01:57:37 pm
i'm also pondering gears vs ss. the times on my previous audaxes are pretty much identical on both bikes, and the terrain on pbp is very suitable for riding single gear (no steep hills). the disadvantage of ss bike is that i'd need to tension the chain 3-4 times due to wear/stretch, wasting at least 5min!!! :o
Title: Re: Tips for PBP - Not the usual! -- a link
Post by: Andrew on November 24, 2014, 02:01:08 pm
If every rider took the oft heard advice to avoid the bulge then wouldn't the bulge just move??? ;)

Don't overthink it would be my advice. Just get on your bike and ride, see what happens. PBP is so very do-able. Easier in many respects than the qualifying 600 you will have done. There's food, showers, bed, mechanics, speech therapists, feng shui advisors, pedicurists... well, okay, I made some of that up but you get the picture... every 80 odd ish km. There's street stalls and individuals offering food and drink. You're pretty sorted really. Certainly in comparison to other rides.

The most likely issues will be your in head and physical tiredness. Expect to get tired and disoriented, it goes with the territory, but you're not alone. You push yourself through that because that's what you're there for. It's PBP. And it's fun... if you don't over complicate it!
Title: Re: Tips for PBP - Not the usual! -- a link
Post by: simonp on November 24, 2014, 02:06:18 pm
I'm hoping to go for the 80h hour group, riding fixed. This should make it much easier, they tell me.

One half of the first sentence makes a lot of sense when used in conjunction with the second sentence.  The other half, well, I am having trouble with!

If I am not on the tandem, then I have two options currently - go for a time whilst I am still able to, or do it fixed for giggles.  The two are not 100% incompatible, but I'd be on gears if I am going for a time.

It was much less tough on fixed in 2011 than on gears in 2007. There are so many other variables, though. In 2007 I had a gear-related mechanical which would not have happened on fixed (or if I'd replaced my cables before the ride).

PBP's not too hard on fixed. Where it got problematic was the final day was very flat, and that was tough. But I was in a far better state than at the same stage in 2007, where I was seeing double for a while. And you get people coming alongside and saying things like "Fixed gear, Carradice, no helmet - you must be British!".

Title: Re: Tips for PBP - Not the usual! -- a link
Post by: rob on November 24, 2014, 02:17:29 pm
I'm hoping to go for the 80h hour group, riding fixed. This should make it much easier, they tell me.

One half of the first sentence makes a lot of sense when used in conjunction with the second sentence.  The other half, well, I am having trouble with!

If I am not on the tandem, then I have two options currently - go for a time whilst I am still able to, or do it fixed for giggles.  The two are not 100% incompatible, but I'd be on gears if I am going for a time.

It was much less tough on fixed in 2011 than on gears in 2007. There are so many other variables, though. In 2007 I had a gear-related mechanical which would not have happened on fixed (or if I'd replaced my cables before the ride).

PBP's not too hard on fixed. Where it got problematic was the final day was very flat, and that was tough. But I was in a far better state than at the same stage in 2007, where I was seeing double for a while. And you get people coming alongside and saying things like "Fixed gear, Carradice, no helmet - you must be British!".


I think I'll gear up a bit next year (75"+).   The spinning on the long descents caused me some comfort issues by the last day in 2011.
Title: Re: Tips for PBP - Not the usual! -- a link
Post by: mattc on November 24, 2014, 02:20:38 pm
If every rider took the oft heard advice to avoid the bulge then wouldn't the bulge just move??? ;)

Ideally we want to indoctrinate JUST the fastest 50% of riders with this "tip". That should smear out the bulge as much as is possible!
Title: Re: Tips for PBP - Not the usual! -- a link
Post by: Exit Stage Left on November 24, 2014, 02:23:53 pm
I've ridden PBP four times, in three of those I've been in the heart of the bulge.
In 2003 I was actively supporting Heather to get round, and ran close to the limit most of the time.
In 2007 and 2011 Heather followed me round on a Press pass. I met her at controls and she filmed while I slept, and brought me food when she woke me up.
it's interesting to observe the bulge when all your own anxieties about its effects are removed. It's easy to become overwhelmed by the difficulties of getting food and some sleep, and to start making bad decisions. If you remove those uncertainties it's a lot easier.
It is possible to flirt with the bulge, as it's where the heart of PBP is. But you need a get out of jail free card, which is either pre-arranged support, or the ability to up the pace and escape the chaos.

I explored some of the problems in 2007. The video only gets watched before PBP, so it needs waking up a bit.
https://vimeo.com/1123364
Title: Re: Tips for PBP - Not the usual! -- a link
Post by: mattc on November 24, 2014, 03:06:20 pm
It is possible to flirt with the bulge, as it's where the heart of PBP is. But you need a get out of jail free card, which is either pre-arranged support, or the ability to up the pace and escape the chaos.
Indeed.

Or simply the ability to ride fast enough between queues that you can still get plenty of sleep.

God I hate those people!
Title: Re: Tips for PBP - Not the usual! -- a link
Post by: wwatts on November 24, 2014, 04:18:39 pm
For me, the remarkable thing about randonneuring is the generosity one experiences, both from fellow riders, from organizers, and from the people along the road.  I am not as experienced as some on this list, but I have had the good fortune of finishing five rides of 1200K or more--PBP in 2011, LEL and Super Brevet Scandinaivia in 2013, and the Cascade 1200K and Ronde Alienor d'Aquitaine in 2014.  When I go into one of these rides, I figure that it is down to me to finish, and any help I receive along the way is an occasion for gratitude.  Like others, I find food and drink plentiful on PBP--I would say one needs to exercise greater care going up mountain passes in Washington State or France, or in the Swedish countryside.  Yes, toilet conditions on PBP controls can be trying, but that's only because so many riders are passing through--the good thing is that most French towns have public toilets near the church or the mayor's office.  And I actually quite like the ambiance of PBP controls.  When I arrived in Tinteniac in on the return in 2011, Sophie Matter was being interviewed with great flair by a local radio announcer, and the whole town seemed to have entered a state of unrestrained jubilation.  The inefficiency of PBP controls is only a problem if you are trying to finish in a certain time, or if your time bank is running low.  My answer to that problem is to try to keep enough time in the bank so that you don't have to worry about standing in line to fill your water bottle, but don't try to set a course record.  Finding a  happy middle ground makes PBP an entirely enjoyable experience.
Title: Re: Tips for PBP - Not the usual! -- a link
Post by: Reg.T on November 24, 2014, 04:22:04 pm
I think I'll gear up a bit next year (75"+).   The spinning on the long descents caused me some comfort issues by the last day in 2011.
What size gear was that on?
Title: Re: Tips for PBP - Not the usual! -- a link
Post by: rob on November 24, 2014, 04:28:20 pm
I think I'll gear up a bit next year (75"+).   The spinning on the long descents caused me some comfort issues by the last day in 2011.
What size gear was that on?

I used 70" last time.   Didn't have any trouble on the climbs although I did feel the Loudeac-Carhaix stretch a bit - both ways.
Title: Re: Tips for PBP - Not the usual! -- a link
Post by: simonp on November 24, 2014, 04:32:02 pm
I was on 69" last time, and I'd use it again. I'd not gear down. I suppose I could gear up but there weren't too many troublesome descents for me.
Title: Re: Tips for PBP - Not the usual! -- a link
Post by: red marley on November 24, 2014, 05:12:00 pm
I was pretty much in the bulge all of the way last time (see first figure at http://www.gicentre.net/blog/2013/10/31/lel). I don't recall it being problematic on the whole. The only problem I experienced as a consequence was not being able to get a bed at Carhaix on the way out. Certainly tails of hour-long queues for food didn't relate to my experience. Personally I wouldn't worry about that aspect of things.

As for riding fixed, I've done that the last two times and if I am able to enter next year will do so again. It's pretty fixed friendly on the whole. I'd have some caution in going for the 80 hour group though, not because of the time as such, but because it is much more challenging riding in a group at a faster pace if you are the only one on fixed, especially when other riders are not expecting it. On more than one occasion last time, I think the lack of freewheel noise and obvious stopping of moving legs made tired riders behind a little less responsive to slowing down. For the first time ever I actually received anti-fixed comments from other riders in PBP 2011, ranging from sarcy comments from fellow Brits (not all joking) to being told that fixed riders shouldn't be riding in a group with geared riders. Personally I prefer to ride either alone or with one or two others, doing my socialising at controls.
Title: Re: Tips for PBP - Not the usual! -- a link
Post by: mattc on November 24, 2014, 05:16:14 pm
The inefficiency of PBP controls is only a problem if you are trying to finish in a certain time, or if your time bank is running low.  My answer to that problem is to try to keep enough time in the bank so that you don't have to worry about standing in line to fill your water bottle
Or in other words:
if you're slow enough to find PBP a challenge, ride faster!

;)
Title: Re: Tips for PBP - Not the usual! -- a link
Post by: Exit Stage Left on November 24, 2014, 05:23:33 pm
For the first time ever I actually received anti-fixed comments from other riders in PBP 2011, ranging from sarcy comments from fellow Brits (not all joking) to being told that fixed riders shouldn't be riding in a group with geared riders.

That's one of the great things about PBP, people start saying what they actually think.
Title: Re: Tips for PBP - Not the usual! -- a link
Post by: Pete Mas on November 24, 2014, 05:48:36 pm
For the first time ever I actually received anti-fixed comments from other riders in PBP 2011, ranging from sarcy comments from fellow Brits (not all joking) to being told that fixed riders shouldn't be riding in a group with geared riders.

That's one of the great things about PBP, people start saying what they actually think.

Assuming they speak the same language...Otherwise gestures and tone of voice have to be sufficient, e.g if someone cuts you up or nearly knocks you off.
Title: Re: Tips for PBP - Not the usual! -- a link
Post by: Ian H on November 24, 2014, 05:53:38 pm
I'm hoping to go for the 80h hour group, riding fixed. This should make it much easier, they tell me.

I rode a 67" fixed in 1999. Gear seemed about right to me.
My experience from last time, on gears on the 80hr, was that not all the controls were fully set up. Because I wasn't among the fastest, there were no vacant beds at Brest (again, still setting things up).
Title: Re: Tips for PBP - Not the usual! -- a link
Post by: simonp on November 24, 2014, 11:25:38 pm
For the first time ever I actually received anti-fixed comments from other riders in PBP 2011, ranging from sarcy comments from fellow Brits (not all joking) to being told that fixed riders shouldn't be riding in a group with geared riders.

That's one of the great things about PBP, people start saying what they actually think.

Plenty people were quite happy to sit on my wheel and not take a turn.
Title: Re: Tips for PBP - Not the usual! -- a link
Post by: Von Broad on November 25, 2014, 12:56:05 am
I would say that the balance between parochial and cosmopolitan types is about the same in the US as it is in the UK--at least among randoneurs.

If by parochial you mean 'small-minded', then I'd say that's been my experience too.

Of the two PBP's I've done, by far the most satisfying memory I hold of of both rides [apart from actually just getting round] is interacting with all different types of overseas riders - some you understand, others you don't, some you like, some you don't. But nevertheless, the International aspect of the event is really fantastic. I really liked that side of the whole thing.

Entering with absurb generalizations about any race is going to be a limiting factor on how you see people.
Take people as you find them, and it can only add to the enriching experience of it all.
Title: Re: Tips for PBP - Not the usual! -- a link
Post by: Exit Stage Left on November 25, 2014, 01:22:55 am
I quite like absurd generalisations as an opening gambit in a conversation at 4 in the morning, with the first person you've ever met from Tennessee.
You have to mention Dolly Parton, Tina Turner and Nutbush City Limits, before moving on to Al Gore and US environmental policy. Don't you?
Title: Re: Tips for PBP - Not the usual! -- a link
Post by: La Tortue on November 25, 2014, 03:25:09 am
I have always found this a well informed board.  One question.  What in the hell is this thread doing  here?  See you gents in Paris.  I'll be the Southerner in the Dolly Parton outfit.
Title: Re: Tips for PBP - Not the usual! -- a link
Post by: Redlight on November 25, 2014, 06:34:10 am
I have always found this a well informed board.  One question.  What in the hell is this thread doing  here?  See you gents in Paris.  I'll be the Southerner in the Dolly Parton outfit.

Worry not. We Will Always Love You too  ;)
Title: Re: Tips for PBP - Not the usual! -- a link
Post by: Cycling Daddy on November 25, 2014, 10:07:41 am
There is a choice Florida ride coming up I think.  Key West to Fort Meyers (sunshine, considerate drivers, plenty of 24 hour food great support...what is not to like??)
L

Considerate drivers?  Florida?

(Boggles on both pistons)
That was (much to my surprise) my experience, Florida Keys October 2014.  Do you live there??  Supported by legislation (Taxis and buses must have cycle racks, if turning right you  yield to cyclists supported by pretty much ever present and zero tolerance policing.  But it is just one person's experience s who is used to Surrey and central London.
L
Title: Re: Tips for PBP - Not the usual! -- a link
Post by: Mr Larrington on November 25, 2014, 10:53:31 am
To be fair to Florida much of my information about their drivers is second-hand and possibly out of date, but my personal experience of the place has left close to the bottom of the list of US states to revisit.
Title: Re: Tips for PBP - Not the usual! -- a link
Post by: Redlight on December 02, 2014, 03:38:13 pm
You might want to keep an eye on the website a date change looks possible (+1 day see http://www.audax.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=395.0)

For those that can't read this it says a final decision will be known in about 10 days.

That was on Nov 22nd so I guess we should be hearing soon...
Title: Re: Tips for PBP - Not the usual! -- a link
Post by: LEE on December 02, 2014, 04:43:17 pm

Of the two PBP's I've done, by far the most satisfying memory I hold of of both rides [apart from actually just getting round] is interacting with all different types of overseas riders - some you understand, others you don't, some you like, some you don't. But nevertheless, the International aspect of the event is really fantastic. I really liked that side of the whole thing.

I spent several hours chatting with a Japanese rider in about 10 words of shared English.

I spent the best part of a day and night riding with a Canadian rider (including some impromptu dancing in the street at St Martin du Pre).

It's great, idle chat to pass the miles.  Otherwise it's just so much boring tarmac to look at.
Title: Re: Tips for PBP - Not the usual! -- a link
Post by: Cycling Daddy on December 02, 2014, 04:49:19 pm
From what I can gather for the forum http://parisbrestparis2007.actifforum.com/t4432-lancer-changement-de-date (http://parisbrestparis2007.actifforum.com/t4432-lancer-changement-de-date)  this is to do with traffic and the local Prefecture unhappy with a Sunday departure...but then they do not like Monday day time either.  I think there is consideration being given to setting off smaller but much more frequent groups, this would not then need official sanction.  An alternative suggestion seems to be to ban the cars, they can all go and join  the traffic jams on the motorway and leave the road for bikes. Personally I would have guessed the rentree to be a week or two later.
L
Title: Re: Tips for PBP - Not the usual! -- a link
Post by: Redlight on December 02, 2014, 10:05:14 pm
Given that the event has been taking place for a number of years, presumably this is a new Prefecture.

I have to say, even in the first 100km or so I've not noticed a great deal of traffic around and once you are past the second control the ride is already sufficiently spread out for it not to be an issue, IMO.

All sounds odd.
Title: Re: Tips for PBP - Not the usual! -- a link
Post by: STMS on December 07, 2014, 12:40:35 am
I wonder what they'd have made of the endless discussions about the EU regulations regarding hi-viz jackets on here four years ago...

Mind you, it did remind me of an American rider who just couldn't handle the toilets at Villaines. I saw him open the door of one portaloo, look at the hole, shake his head and move onto the next one, which was exactly the same. He was still standing and staring when I scarpered, having filled my water bottle.

Having a badly battle damaged undercarriage & a duff back i was of the the same opinion and left town cursing the ***** ****** ******** . I never even found the food hall. In retrospect i suffered badly the whole trip because of the said problems but i survived and would thoroughly recommend the experience to anyone not right in the head Enjoy ;D
Title: Re: Tips for PBP - Not the usual! -- a link
Post by: Ian gaggiaport on February 01, 2019, 05:23:44 pm
I think those responses might relate to (massive generalisation) the typical USA newbie PBPer's tendency to overplan everything, combined with a lack of adaptability when things don't go according to plan.

I had the enduring gratitude from an American in 2011 on the turn out of Brest. Brest control had basically closed down and no food was available.(I was on the 84) . I met him later at a secret control with his riding pals. ' hey! This guy saved my life! ' handshakes etc..
All I did was order a sandwich and an apple pattiserie for him at Boulangerie at Brest..In his defence I'd note that it's not just language skills but noticeing the unfamiliar bakery signs and logos is important.
Title: Re: Tips for PBP - Not the usual! -- a link
Post by: Bianchi Boy on February 02, 2019, 08:36:29 am
 
i'm also pondering gears vs ss. the times on my previous audaxes are pretty much identical on both bikes, and the terrain on pbp is very suitable for riding single gear (no steep hills). the disadvantage of ss bike is that i'd need to tension the chain 3-4 times due to wear/stretch, wasting at least 5min!!! :o
:hand:
Remember men on bikes = race
Title: Re: Tips for PBP - Not the usual! -- a link
Post by: Bianchi Boy on February 02, 2019, 08:42:29 am
I work for a German company. Uncertainty is not tolerated. Every meeting of any significance has to be preceded by a sting to pre-alignment meetings so you are certain of everything that will be said. When reporting on progress everything must be good.

They wonder why they have problems developing software?

 ::-)
Title: Re: Tips for PBP - Not the usual! -- a link
Post by: Ajax Bay on February 03, 2019, 12:01:58 pm
I work for a German company. Uncertainty is not tolerated.
Do they tolerate the resurrection of issues after 5 years?
Having said that, I thought ESL's 'Uncertainty Avoidance Index' post very interesting (Page 2) when i read through this thread last year.
Title: Re: Tips for PBP - Not the usual! -- a link
Post by: Exit Stage Left on February 03, 2019, 02:06:13 pm
I work for a German company. Uncertainty is not tolerated.
Do they tolerate the resurrection of issues after 5 years?
Having said that, I thought ESL's 'Uncertainty Avoidance Index' post very interesting (Page 2) when i read through this thread last year.


That's on page 1.

I wrote a piece for the PBP 2015 Plaquette about my overall impressions of the event, after 4 completions and a filming exercise in 2015. The title is in French, and translates as 'Sharing the Inheritance'.

My idea was that PBP is a manifestation of the peripheral France that's been getting publicity with the 'Gilets Jaunes'. That's what makes it so attractive to people from around the world, as that's essentially nostalgic. St Quentin represents the modern world, which we escape from and return to.

I'd be interested to see how the change of start/finish changes that view, as the Bergerie National represents the pre-revolutionary France of the 18th Century.

Everyone is going to have their own view of PBP. Mine is partly conditioned by working in the countryside, so landscape is important, Heather ran a control on LEL five times, so the volunteers catch her eye.

What I wrote was based on the scenes we recorded, so the short article grew out of the video, and became the commentary.

One in English.
https://youtu.be/14cV1fi64MA

One in French.
https://youtu.be/NUdSpkgQvHY

Quote
Partageons le Patrimoine.

2015 marked my fifth participation in Paris Brest Paris. And it was the first time I’d not ridden it on my bicycle .   That was due to an eye operation, I was told not to ride, so I only did the first 140 km to Mortgagne. I was making my fourth film, and the rest of the journey was on a motorbike, with my cameraman David Robinson. He filmed from the bike and I did interviews at the stops.

L'année 2015 a marqué ma cinquième participation à Paris Brest Paris. Et pour la première fois, je n'était pas sur mon vélo.   Cela est dû à une opération de l'oeil, on m'a recommandé de ne pas rouler, alors j'ai fait seulement les 140 premiers kilomètres jusqu'à Mortagne. Je faisais mon quatrième film, et le reste du parcours a été fait sur une moto, avec mon caméraman David Robinson. Il a filmé de la moto et j'ai réalisé des interviews aux arrêts.

Each successive PBP has been different from the last, the bikes change, riders use GPS, they have digital cameras, smartphones and all sorts of ‘devices’ that need charging, sometimes even their derailleurs. There are always new types of machine, this time Elliptigos, in previous editions Rowbikes and Velomobiles.

Chaque PBP successif a été différent du précédent, les vélos changent, les coureurs utilisent le GPS, ils ont des appareils photo numériques, smartphones et toutes sortes d'appareils qui ont besoin d'être rechargés, parfois même leurs dérailleurs. Il y a toujours de nouveaux types de machines, cette fois des Elliptigos, dans les éditions précédentes des Rowbikes et Velomobiles.


The big difference for me this time was in not following the route. To film a variety of riders we needed to ‘jump’ sections of the course. The riders don’t know how well the route is chosen to preserve the ambience of the last century. The more modern the surrounding world becomes, the more the route reflects the past. Whenever we needed to buy fuel for the motorbike, we had to divert into a 21st Century that could be anywhere in the world. The riders do encounter some of the present, at the Depart/ Arrivee and in the big towns, but for much of the time they could be in the 19th Century, give or take the road surfaces.

La grande différence pour moi cette fois-ci a été de ne pas suivre la route. Pour filmer une variété des coureurs, il nous fallait « sauter » des sections du parcours. Les coureurs ne réalisent pas à quel point l'itinéraire est choisi de manièreà préserver l'ambiance du siècle dernier. Plus moderne est le monde qui nous entoure, plus la route reflète le passé. Chaque fois que nous avions besoin de faire le plein de carburant pour la moto, nous avons dû nous détourner vers un 21e siècle qui pourrait être n'importe où dans le monde. Les coureurs rencontrent certains éléments du présent, au départ et à l'arrivee, et dans les grandes villes, mais pour l'essentiel du parcours, ils pourraient être au XIXe siècle, à la qualité de la chaussée près.


London Edinburgh London takes a quiet route too, but the joy of the PBP is in the people along the way. The ride is their inheritance, and it’s often Grandparents and Grandchildren operating the little stalls at the roadside. The parents are leading busy lives in the cities, but every four years there’s a chance for their kids to reconnect with their home turf. Some of the stalls are in the same place every time, but others spring up wherever the children are of an age to relish the magic of the world coming to their little village. It looks like a rite of passage to be allowed to stay up all night, or to help out at a control. It’s charming when the reply to ‘merci’ is ‘c’est ne rien’, which means ‘It’s nothing’, but to us it’s everything.

Londres Edimbourg Londres emprunte aussi une route calme, mais tout le plaisir de PBP est dans la foule le long du chemin. Cette randonnée est leur héritage, et l'on voit souvent des grands-parents et leurs petits-enfants opérant les petits étals au bord de la route. Les parents mènent une vie bien remplie dans les villes, mais tous les quatre ans, leurs enfants ont l'occasion de renouer avec leur terroir. Certains des étals sont au même endroit à chaque fois, mais d'autres surgissent partout où les enfants sont en âge de savourer la magie du monde entier qui vient vers leur petit village. Cela ressemble à un rite de passage pour être autorisés à rester debout toute la nuit, ou pour aider à un contrôle. Il est charmant quand la réponse à « merci » est « ce n'est rien », mais pour nous, c'est tout.

It’s only when you’ve been beyond its immediate environs that you see what an achievement PBP is. It’s a living theatre, where all the world has come to the stage, and it’s unclear who are the performers and who are the audience. I can think of no other event where the boundaries of participation are so blurred, there were around 6,000 official ‘participants’, I think that’s only a starting point in counting the PBP family.

C'est seulement lorsque vous êtes allé au-delà de ses environs immédiats que vous voyez à quel point PBP est une grande réalisation. C'est un théâtre vivant, où le monde entier vient sur scène, et où on ne sait ni qui sont les interprètes, ni qui est le public. Je ne vois aucun autre événement où les limites de la participation sont à ce point floues, on comptait environ 6 000  participants « officiels », je pense que c'est seulement un point de départ lors du comptage de la famille PBP.

http://www.randonneurs.bc.ca/pbp/plaquettes/2015/052.html
Title: Re: Tips for PBP - Not the usual! -- a link
Post by: phil w on February 06, 2019, 08:08:33 pm
http://susanotcenas.blogspot.com/2014/11/pbp-tips-for-first-timer.html
Title: Re: Tips for PBP - Not the usual! -- a link
Post by: Ajax Bay on February 07, 2019, 12:09:40 pm
http://susanotcenas.blogspot.com/2014/11/pbp-tips-for-first-timer.html
This is a 2015 thread, Phil, sharing and assessing USA advice for last time.
See the 2019  https://yacf.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=109669.25
where I linked to Susan's blog/advice a little while ago.
Title: Re: Tips for PBP - Not the usual! -- a link
Post by: T42 on February 09, 2019, 02:05:16 pm
Those subject to Shermer's Neck may be interested in this:

https://le-velo-urbain.com/pedi-scope-mike-lane-velo-urbain/

I could have used one on our 2014 diagonale.
Title: Re: Tips for PBP - Not the usual! -- a link
Post by: grams on February 09, 2019, 03:28:20 pm
Those subject to Shermer's Neck may be interested in this:

https://le-velo-urbain.com/pedi-scope-mike-lane-velo-urbain/

I could have used one on our 2014 diagonale.

If you already have a phone on your handlebars:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/voyeuristic-videotaping-external-corner-mirror-periscope-lens-for-Mobile-phone-camera-general-Samsung-Sony-millet-Meizu/32365337837.html

(Don't blame me if you end up on some sort of watch list)
Title: Re: Tips for PBP - Not the usual! -- a link
Post by: T42 on February 09, 2019, 05:19:30 pm
Thinking Shermer again: I got a new bike and had a good fit before PBP 2015, and ended up with a bike 3 cm shorter, measuring from where I sat on the saddle to the top of the bars. No Shermer's Neck on that ride.