Yet Another Cycling Forum

General Category => The Knowledge => Health & Fitness => Topic started by: Paul on January 04, 2015, 08:12:49 pm

Title: Novice running
Post by: Paul on January 04, 2015, 08:12:49 pm
I ran at school. Badly, and under pressure. I did it when absolutely required, but reluctantly, painfully and like I imagine a camel does*. I vowed I would never do it as an adult (except for the last bus; unrequited lover leaving for foreign shores, and; last orders).

However, on 30 December I woke up and went for a run. I'm still not quite sure why. I lay in bed thinking about it for a minute or two, and then did it. I should say that almost all of the best decisions in my life have been based on 2 minutes or less thinking, so there was a lot of precedent behind this, despite 34 years of observed vow.

Luckily, I had all the kit: a tshirt, a (cycling) fleece, (cycling) gloves, (cycling) tights and (cycling) socks. And some nondescript trainers.

And it was great. It was PAINFUL, slow, graceless, but it was exhilarating. And it was easy. I didn't have to check the tyre pressure or worry about lights. I didn't have to think when I'd last oiled the chain or whether I had a pump, tube, repair kit.

Let me be clear: I fell back in love with cycling 23 years ago and it was forever. I am not leaving my bikes/cycling. But I am suddenly realising that there might be another exercise. I'm not very good at it, but I have managed to get quite a bit better at it in just a few days. And it has been lovely. At running (well, slow jogging) pace I get to see a lot more than I do on a bike.

I also think that the things I hated about running might have been those things I had no control over. I was no good at running against my peers (asthma). And running was used as a punishment (Forgot your kit? Run around the pitch. Slow getting changed? Run around the pitch. Breached some hitherto unknown rugby rule? You've guessed it...).

Running at my own pace, without any pressure, on a crystal clear morning is something entirely different. I ran to the park and back on Tuesday. I did a circuit of it on Thursday. I did two circuits yesterday and again this morning. I'm slow and I have to stop frequently, but that only seems to add to the enjoyment**.

My goal is to run to work. It's something like 4 miles. I can ride it in 15 mins so I should be able to walk it in 60. If so, I don't see why I can't run it in, say 40 mins (even if I have to walk intermittently). Added to this is the fact that it is on a bus route so if it comes to the worst, I can get on a bus.

Does anyone have any tips? I never leave the house without water/a drink. My trainers are not great, but I'm looking into something more suitable. Is it just a question of going for it?

*In my head camels run inefficiently, limbs flailing - like Phoebe. I suppose it's probably the correct way to run where camels are from, but it always looks like bad design to me.

**This might be less enjoyable in the rain/wind/other rubbish weather
Title: Re: Novice running
Post by: sojournermike on January 04, 2015, 09:58:44 pm
Running is great.

Best tip is not to lose the simplicity. There's always someone trying to sell you something (special trainers etc) and you probably don't need it. Nowhere is that latter more true than in running.

Next tip is to build up slowly. It's quite easy to get injured in weeks 6 to 12 as your CV and muscles get ahead of the rest of your physiological adaptations.

Enjoy the freedom!
Title: Re: Novice running
Post by: fuaran on January 04, 2015, 10:27:16 pm
I'd agree, its good to build up slowly. Even if you are fit from cycling, you could injure yourself running too much too soon.
Look at a Couch to 5K plan. They start with walking for a minute or two, then running. Slowly increasing the time running. There is a good one from the NHS with podcasts etc. http://www.nhs.uk/Livewell/c25k/Pages/couch-to-5k.aspx

I think it is worth getting some proper running shoes. They don't have to be too expensive, just go to a decent running shop and try on a few to see what fits.
Title: Re: Novice running
Post by: αdαmsκι on January 04, 2015, 10:30:01 pm
Get trainers fitted at a run shop so they can advise of the best shoes given you gait.

Thought about doing Park Run? It's a timed 5 km run held Saturday morning, normally 9am start,, and free to enter. http://www.parkrun.org.uk  There are a few close-ish to you...
Title: Re: Novice running
Post by: saturn on January 04, 2015, 10:34:28 pm
Chapeau to you. I hate running but I've kept trying to find some enjoyment in the activity over the last few years. These generally involved an annual 5km jog which left me hobbling around for the next few days so I wouldn't try again for another year. Finally this autumn I took a more sensible approach and tried to build up the distance and speed gradually. I managed 9 runs (well jogs really) over the course of a month and nearly enjoyed some of them, or at least didn't hate them quite as much as I should. I was trying to build up to a modest 30 minute 5km but I found I couldn't get over 3km without my calfs stiffening up to the extent I thought I'd end up doing cycle spoiling damage so my effort has lapsed once more. I thought if we had a prolonged icy spell I'd go jogging instead of cycling but now I've bought some studded tyres so that incentive is lost also.

If it works for you, good luck to you. Compared to cycling with loads of winter layers, there's no faff involved in going for a jog/run and you get a lot more value for a short time invested.
Title: Re: Novice running
Post by: red marley on January 04, 2015, 10:50:25 pm
Get trainers fitted at a run shop so they can advise of the best shoes given you gait.

+1 on the shoes advice. No other special equipment or clothing required for runs under 10k, but appropriate trainers made a huge difference for me (and I'm still a novice runner). I recommend one of the "Runners Need" shops that does free Gait Analysis, from which the staff can recommend the right type of shoe.
Title: Re: Novice running
Post by: Paul on January 04, 2015, 11:16:32 pm
Running is great.

Best tip is not to lose the simplicity. There's always someone trying to sell you something (special trainers etc) and you probably don't need it. Nowhere is that latter more true than in running.

Next tip is to build up slowly. It's quite easy to get injured in weeks 6 to 12 as your CV and muscles get ahead of the rest of your physiological adaptations.

Enjoy the freedom!
I can see how the bug could get you and make you overreach - it's just so easy to get out and do it. Luckily, I don't have the time to do it more than a little now and again. I'm planning just to enjoy it as I can.

I think it is worth getting some proper running shoes. They don't have to be too expensive, just go to a decent running shop and try on a few to see what fits.

Is there a difference between 'proper running shoes' and 'what fits'? My current trainers are bargain basement (and bought in the long "never going running" years). They fit but they've never had to run before. Is there such a thing as a real running shoe, and how much does it cost? I have several pairs of cycling shoes, none of which has cost me more than £45. Would 'proper' running shoes cost more?

Get trainers fitted at a run shop so they can advise of the best shoes given you gait.

A run shop?

Thought about doing Park Run? It's a timed 5 km run held Saturday morning, normally 9am start,, and free to enter. http://www.parkrun.org.uk  There are a few close-ish to you...

I'm not sure about the group running thing, but maybe.

Chapeau to you. I hate running but I've kept trying to find some enjoyment in the activity over the last few years. These generally involved an annual 5km jog which left me hobbling around for the next few days so I wouldn't try again for another year. Finally this autumn I took a more sensible approach and tried to build up the distance and speed gradually. I managed 9 runs (well jogs really) over the course of a month and nearly enjoyed some of them, or at least didn't hate them quite as much as I should. I was trying to build up to a modest 30 minute 5km but I found I couldn't get over 3km without my calfs stiffening up to the extent I thought I'd end up doing cycle spoiling damage so my effort has lapsed once more. I thought if we had a prolonged icy spell I'd go jogging instead of cycling but now I've bought some studded tyres so that incentive is lost also.

If it works for you, good luck to you. Compared to cycling with loads of winter layers, there's no faff involved in going for a jog/run and you get a lot more value for a short time invested.

We've approached it differently. I didn't want to do it, but I have found that (starting very humbly) I've been able to overcome my fear of running by doing it well within my capability. Yesterday my 8 year old joined me. He made the whole thing very different, and even more enjoyable. It was chance for us to be alone together for 30 minutes that we both enjoyed.

I'm not really thinking about speed yet. That might come, but for the moment I would just like to increase distance. I'll go with slowly and gently, and (for the moment) stick with circular routes so that the hobble home (if necessary) is as short as it can be.
Title: Re: Novice running
Post by: Paul on January 04, 2015, 11:22:01 pm
+1 on the shoes advice. No other special equipment or clothing required for runs under 10k, but appropriate trainers made a huge difference for me (and I'm still a novice runner). I recommend one of the "Runners Need" shops that does free Gait Analysis, from which the staff can recommend the right type of shoe.

Looks like Brum is the nearest. I'm sometimes there, but does anyone know if there's anything similar in Derby?
Title: Re: Novice running
Post by: SteveC on January 04, 2015, 11:31:42 pm
http://www.parkrun.org.uk/darley/ (http://www.parkrun.org.uk/darley/)?

Title: Re: Novice running
Post by: sojournermike on January 04, 2015, 11:45:55 pm
A couple of observations on shoes for running.

The wrong ones can cause you an injury - I cannot wear (what are usually poorly descibed as) anti-pronation shoes.

But, there is surprisingly little research backing up the links drawn by manufacturers between gait and injury, and even less linkage suggesting that the specialist shoes help many people. (But see above, getting out of the wrong shoes may!)

The best research currently seems to suggest that comfortable shoes are good. Cushioning is both in and out of fashion at the moment - remember, feet and lower legs are designed to run and absorb the impact loading, but most of us have weak feet due to years of wearing stiff soled shoes and not actually running.

By all means get a gait analysis done, but buy something comfy. Don't worry too much about having lots of cushion, just be comfortable. You should feel you are running free, at least when you set off!

Title: Re: Novice running
Post by: Paul on January 05, 2015, 12:20:05 am
http://www.parkrun.org.uk/darley/ (http://www.parkrun.org.uk/darley/)?
Thought about doing Park Run? It's a timed 5 km run held Saturday morning, normally 9am start,, and free to enter. http://www.parkrun.org.uk  There are a few close-ish to you...
I'm not sure about the group running thing, but maybe.

A couple of observations on shoes for running.

The wrong ones can cause you an injury - I cannot wear (what are usually poorly descibed as) anti-pronation shoes.

But, there is surprisingly little research backing up the links drawn by manufacturers between gait and injury, and even less linkage suggesting that the specialist shoes help many people. (But see above, getting out of the wrong shoes may!)

The best research currently seems to suggest that comfortable shoes are good. Cushioning is both in and out of fashion at the moment - remember, feet and lower legs are designed to run and absorb the impact loading, but most of us have weak feet due to years of wearing stiff soled shoes and not actually running.

By all means get a gait analysis done, but buy something comfy. Don't worry too much about having lots of cushion, just be comfortable. You should feel you are running free, at least when you set off!

Thanks, SM. All noted. I have a birthday coming up, so I'll be taking this advice with me.
Title: Re: Novice running
Post by: fboab on January 05, 2015, 08:40:00 am
5km is too far for a beginner to run before they can run.
Thin people can progress faster than fat people (simple physics - your joints will take more of a battering). Make sure you can easily and without after effects walk as far as you're planning to run - how often do you walk for 4 miles? Sounds daft, but I'd always ride that distance and hardly ever did much walking before I tried running.
Get in to the habit of stretching afterwards straight away, particularly if you are a cyclist with a sedentary job. Your hamstrings are shorter than you think.
If your physio tells you that you shouldn't run, don't run. It actually will make it worse.
Park Run is not as intimidating as you might think. It's really inclusive and very motivating. I wasn't the slowest, and I was really slow

Enjoy. I'd started to really enjoy it, before it broke me.
Title: Re: Novice running
Post by: mrcharly-YHT on January 05, 2015, 08:46:19 am
'Shin splints' are the most likely problem you will get. They are damage to the fine ligaments that connect to the front of your shinbones. The cause is simply too much repetitive impact and the remedy is to start with short duration runs and build up very gradually, so that your body can adapt.

You can decide to be a shuffler (short fast steps) or a loper (maximum stride steps). For slow running, either work. Shuffling is a bit easier on your shins and knees.

Let your arms move. Relaxed hands are best.
Title: Re: Novice running
Post by: Polar Bear on January 05, 2015, 08:59:44 am
Welcome afoot.   :)

There is online resource, couch to 5k (http://www.nhs.uk/Livewell/c25k/Pages/couch-to-5k.aspx).   It works.   In three months you should be able to complete your 'run' to the office if all goes well.

Just remember, it's for you, so take it easy and don't overdo it at any time.   If the body says no, listen and heed.   

Best of luck old boy.   :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Novice running
Post by: chris n on January 05, 2015, 12:26:57 pm
+1 on the shoes advice. No other special equipment or clothing required for runs under 10k, but appropriate trainers made a huge difference for me (and I'm still a novice runner). I recommend one of the "Runners Need" shops that does free Gait Analysis, from which the staff can recommend the right type of shoe.

Looks like Brum is the nearest. I'm sometimes there, but does anyone know if there's anything similar in Derby?

J's had good service and advice in the past from http://www.running-fox.co.uk/ in Loughborough.  Looks like they do gait analysis too.
Title: Re: Novice running
Post by: Sergeant Pluck on January 05, 2015, 01:21:36 pm
Two or three years ago, I decided to do a bit of running. I did a bit of googling on it and I was aware of the importance of building up slowly. Over a period of about 6 months or so I built up as gradually as thought appropriate to 10k. Not terribly fast but not embarrassingly slow either. Once I got the running muscles going and got control of my pace / breathing balance I found 10 k fairly easy.

So the date of my planned 10 km run (a duathlon) approached and I was running in Richmond Park, in the dark, up the slope that goes towards the ballet school. Noticed a pain in the heel. Over only about 100 - 150 m it got to the point where I could not run so I stopped. A few moments later I was in agony and could barely walk. I had no phone and the park was deserted. No money for a cab. Getting home to Kew was a real struggle. At that stage I could not bear to put any weight on that foot at all. None.

To cut a long story short, I had a complete fracture of my calcaneus, with all the associated diagnosis and recovery faff. It all turned out ok for me, but it often doesn't with these fractures or with achilles problems. You can easily find yourself going from running about as much as you like one day to having a permanent disability that affects everything that you do.

Two errors:

1. Not building up slowly enough. The problem is that if you have a bit of basic fitness from the bike and you are not too overweight, 10 km comes along pretty easily. It is very very easy to put aside the widely available advice on this point. It is even more important to pay attention to it when you are over about 40.

Edited to add:

1b. Poor running technique: heel strike. Very difficult to train yourself out of this.

2. Not having proper running shoes. I had good trainers, but there were not running shoes and they were getting on a bit. Running shoes need to be replaced regularly.

Be careful.
Title: Re: Novice running
Post by: SlowCoach on January 05, 2015, 03:13:16 pm
Couch 2 5 K

Couch to 5 K

COUCH TO 5 K !!!

I  can't say it often enough. The links are up thread. It starts you off slowly and eases you in gently. I started using the podcasts at the beginning of November and am currently on week 8 of the 9 week plan. I used to HATE running. I stopped running in February 1971 (after I fell in the river Tees in a school cross country race and swam the length of Abbey Rapids before I could find a way out - I finished the race damn near hypothermic, soaking wet and covered in blood). I vowed never to run again.

Now I'm loving it. As you say in your original post - it's the simplicity of just being able to get out. Just start out slowly and don't overreach.

Did I mention it? Look at C25K...
Title: Re: Novice running
Post by: snail on January 05, 2015, 05:14:01 pm
Yup here's another voice to the DO IT SLOWLY advice.

I took up running a few years ago. I was all fit and muscly from cycling, I threw on an old pair of trainers, and thumped up and down the prom. A few weeks later ... shin splints. Took months to properly heal.

I have since had a trail-shoe-fit at a running shop and the trainers were the most comfortable (and third most expensive) pair of shoes I have ever owned. (1st: New Rock boots, 2nd: cycling shoes. I don't do girlie.)

However slow you think you need to build up to it ... go slower! I was following the Couch to 5KM programme but got overconfident (I'm a CYCLIST and therefore INVINCIBLE) and the crappy £10 "trainers" clearly did not help.
Title: Re: Novice running
Post by: phantasmagoriana on January 05, 2015, 05:43:07 pm
Hmm, this thread is semi-convincing me it might be good to try running again. I half-heartedly tried a bit on the treadmill over the summer, but it was SO DULL! I hated it: got to 5k and that was quite far enough. I don't find spinning bikes anywhere near as boring, though a proper bike ride is infinitely more satisfying.

May have to try running in the actual outside to see whether it's any better. :-\
Title: Re: Novice running
Post by: SteveC on January 05, 2015, 06:01:31 pm
See also this thread https://yacf.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=63370.msg1318328#msg1318328 (https://yacf.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=63370.msg1318328#msg1318328) which, via the popular C25K scheme, got me running 27 months or so ago.
It was the C25K scheme which really got me going.
These days I do Parkrun most Saturdays and get a couple of more runs in at lunchtimes.
The only problem is that I don't get as much cycling in as I used to.
Title: Re: Novice running
Post by: mattc on January 05, 2015, 06:06:42 pm
My fault,  but whenever I see C25K I read it as
"about 25km "
Title: Re: Novice running
Post by: citoyen on January 05, 2015, 06:24:16 pm
5km is too far for a beginner to run before they can run.

True. Worth looking for a parkrun that's two laps of a course rather than out and back, so you can bale out after the first lap if you don't feel up to the whole distance.

Quote
Park Run is not as intimidating as you might think. It's really inclusive and very motivating. I wasn't the slowest, and I was really slow

Seconded. The inclusivity really is the best thing about parkrun.

Paul, I was like you in that I took up running a few years ago having not done any for a long, long time (mainly because I hated it), and it was discovering parkrun that really changed my outlook and made me start to genuinely enjoy running.
Title: Re: Novice running
Post by: SteveC on January 05, 2015, 08:43:12 pm
We have had people who've done the full nine weeks of the C25K then done a Parkrun as their first 'proper' on-their-own-without-the-podcast run. There was one woman on Saturday who'd done just that and was feeling so proud of the achievement.

My fault,  but whenever I see C25K I read it as
"about 25km "
Know what you mean!
Title: Re: Novice running
Post by: Kim on January 05, 2015, 08:52:03 pm
Hmm, this thread is semi-convincing me it might be good to try running again.

It was convincing me of the opposite.   ;D

The only running I do these days is running away.
Title: Re: Novice running
Post by: jsabine on January 05, 2015, 09:46:57 pm
Hmm, this thread is semi-convincing me it might be good to try running again.

It was convincing me of the opposite.   ;D

It's done a fairly good job of convincing me that buying some running shoes, going round the park a couple of times, then finding my local parkrun would not be a good idea.

Quote
The only running I do these days is running away.

I try not even to do that.
Title: Re: Novice running
Post by: saturn on January 05, 2015, 11:12:01 pm
There is online resource, couch to 5k (http://www.nhs.uk/Livewell/c25k/Pages/couch-to-5k.aspx).   

Thanks for this and for all the affirmations. Maybe I'll have another go and start even slower next time.
Title: Re: Novice running
Post by: fboab on January 06, 2015, 12:20:47 am
I did zombie running build up to 5k- more interesting than couch to 5k because you have a story.
I still got broken by running because I am too fat to run.
(I have wear and tear arthritis in my knees. I had had knee  trouble before and thought it would be OK if I built up slowly enough. No it wasn't. I could possibly run if I was 50kg and under 30.)
Title: Re: Novice running
Post by: davelodwig on January 06, 2015, 08:33:52 am
I did zombie running build up to 5k- more interesting than couch to 5k because you have a story.
I still got broken by running because I am too fat to run.
(I have wear and tear arthritis in my knees. I had had knee  trouble before and thought it would be OK if I built up slowly enough. No it wasn't. I could possibly run if I was 50kg and under 30.)

I'm 144KG and 34 so bigger and older than both of those problems and I've probably run around 2500KM now in the 4 years since I started. I've re done c25k about 3 or 4 times after breaks from running for various things and I'm ramping back up to half marathon distance now as part of operation loose loads of weight before my wedding.

The one thing I did was barefoot running not because it's mechanically better (which it is btw) but because I had to start again but modify how I ran so that I landed toes first rather than heel first, I now do this automatically and my running is loads more comfortable with shin and knee pain a thing of the past.

Just takes a while to teach yourself to walk and run differently but after a while it comes quite naturally.

D.
Title: Re: Novice running
Post by: mrcharly-YHT on January 06, 2015, 10:50:43 am
My recommendation is to forget logging distance, log duration.

To start with, under 5min. Total. Not 5 min + warm up, just jog for 5min, no more, and go slow.

Do that no more than 3 times a week for at least a week.

Then up it to 7-10min. Go slow. Even job walk jog walk. Feel the front of your shins every day; if there is any tenderness, have a gap of at least 2 days before doing *any* running then drop back to previous duration.

After 2 weeks of that, you can increase to 15min and go a little faster.

At all times, try to be kind to the earth. Don't pound it. Run soft.

I used to teach track and field to 11 year olds. Every single one of those kids could run a mile without stopping, including Downs syndrome kids with asthma.
Title: Re: Novice running
Post by: tonyh on January 06, 2015, 11:11:19 am
Splendid post, Mr C !
Title: Re: Novice running
Post by: matthew on January 06, 2015, 11:25:59 am
Hmm, this thread is semi-convincing me it might be good to try running again.

It was convincing me of the opposite.   ;D

It's done a fairly good job of convincing me that buying some running shoes, going round the park a couple of times, then finding my local parkrun would not be a good idea.

Quote
The only running I do these days is running away.

I try not even to do that.

Yep, it has convinced me that with my existing wear / damage in my hip running would be a bad idea and a rapid route to a hip replacement. I'll stick to cycling as it is low impact articulation of the joint and apparently better for it.
Title: Re: Novice running
Post by: LittleWheelsandBig on January 06, 2015, 11:33:48 am
If I need to build up to running any worthwhile distance THAT slowly, there is no way I would reach the enjoyable stage before giving up due to lack of progress.

I'll stick with riding. I enjoyed riding within a couple of hours of first getting on a bike.
Title: Re: Novice running
Post by: sojournermike on January 06, 2015, 01:06:42 pm
There is a lot of caution in beginner prgrams (litigation anyone?), but everyone is individual. Fundamentally, humans are built to run, but the lack of use our sedentary lifestyles encourage mean that there is usually a time to adjust.

My biggest prblem with running is that I like to run fast and my weight and current conditoin mean that One of) my achilles suffer when I rush at intervals too early and too hard. That's a 'feeling younger than your age' problem and a 3+ month fix. Cycling seems able to continue even when my ankle was crocked, and tis year I'm aiming to focus on the bike by choice.

Biggest thing with running is learning to listen to your body. I agree with the poster above about barefoot and associated running approaches, but again the adaption required from most of our starting point does demand a bit of care/patience.

The other thing is that running really is fun for short runs around the block and you can still go for a bike ride later.
Title: Re: Novice running
Post by: Kim on January 06, 2015, 01:16:53 pm
The one thing I did was barefoot running not because it's mechanically better (which it is btw) but because I had to start again but modify how I ran so that I landed toes first rather than heel first, I now do this automatically and my running is loads more comfortable with shin and knee pain a thing of the past.

Just takes a while to teach yourself to walk and run differently but after a while it comes quite naturally.

You mean I've been doing it right all this time?  Cor.

I walk/run on my toes, moreso without shoes (though I avoid going without shoes), because my feet are unbearably sensitive and it minimises contact with cold/rough surfaces.  It's not a tendon issue, so it either means I'm autistic, or actually was a cat in a previous life.   ::-)
Title: Re: Novice running
Post by: Paul on January 06, 2015, 01:32:41 pm
In between the frivolity (which is entirely welcome) there is a lot of really helpful stuff here. Thanks all.

I am taking it easy but not as easy as some advise. I'm 49 and 14+ stone, but I seem to be able to manage comfortably about 20 minutes of slow, easy jogging (punctuated with 2 or 3 walking breathers) every other day. I'm really not one for overdoing this kind of thing.

I'm going to invest in some shoes and an assessment of the type needed here (http://www.derbyrunner.com/about-us/).

The other thing is that running really is fun for short runs around the block and you can still go for a bike ride later.

I ran this morning before cycling to work. I'm going to need a new smug-ometer; mine only goes up to 10.

 ;D
Title: Re: Novice running
Post by: davelodwig on January 06, 2015, 01:41:25 pm
The one thing I did was barefoot running not because it's mechanically better (which it is btw) but because I had to start again but modify how I ran so that I landed toes first rather than heel first, I now do this automatically and my running is loads more comfortable with shin and knee pain a thing of the past.

Just takes a while to teach yourself to walk and run differently but after a while it comes quite naturally.

You mean I've been doing it right all this time?  Cor.

I walk/run on my toes, moreso without shoes (though I avoid going without shoes), because my feet are unbearably sensitive and it minimises contact with cold/rough surfaces.  It's not a tendon issue, so it either means I'm autistic, or actually was a cat in a previous life.   ::-)

Landing heel first is really bad for you and is the reason why a lot of people get buggered knees and shin splints because of the thumping impact up the leg. It's also the reason we see loads of shoes with cushioning for sports, cos buying shoes is easier than spending 6 months teaching yourself to run properly. As I'm fat no amount of cushioning did the trick so I spent the time.
Title: Re: Novice running
Post by: sojournermike on January 06, 2015, 01:56:13 pm
The one thing I did was barefoot running not because it's mechanically better (which it is btw) but because I had to start again but modify how I ran so that I landed toes first rather than heel first, I now do this automatically and my running is loads more comfortable with shin and knee pain a thing of the past.

Just takes a while to teach yourself to walk and run differently but after a while it comes quite naturally.

You mean I've been doing it right all this time?  Cor.

I walk/run on my toes, moreso without shoes (though I avoid going without shoes), because my feet are unbearably sensitive and it minimises contact with cold/rough surfaces.  It's not a tendon issue, so it either means I'm autistic, or actually was a cat in a previous life.   ::-)

Landing heel first is really bad for you and is the reason why a lot of people get buggered knees and shin splints because of the thumping impact up the leg. It's also the reason we see loads of shoes with cushioning for sports, cos buying shoes is easier than spending 6 months teaching yourself to run properly. As I'm fat no amount of cushioning did the trick so I spent the time.


Whilst I am inclined to agree with you, I don't think there's much actual evidence to support this contention. Heel strikers don't generally suffer a thumping impact, but roll from raer to front of foot and the pronation does the job it's intended too - provides shock absorbtion for the lower leg. Also worth bearing in mind that most people don't have a single gait, but their biomechanics actually vary with speed, tiredness and mood. However, there's evidence all around that we'd rather spend money than put in time and effort to get better at stuff - even cycling isn't immune.

You're right though that with an investment in time to learn to run well - barefoot, chi, alexander etc - then most people will do much better and be less injured.

An interesting set of studioes done on achilles tendinopathy concluded that the only reliable indicator was calf strength, not gait. Weak calves induced significantly more achilles injuries than strong. I suspect this also relates to the onset of achilles injury during interval work - the weakness is probably relative to the load applied.

Mike - the forefoot striking cat;)
Title: Re: Novice running
Post by: mrcharly-YHT on January 06, 2015, 01:58:54 pm
I've run more miles barefoot than I have with shoes on.

On hard surfaces I naturally land heel first. To do otherwise kind of contradicts the construction of our bodies. However this doesn't mean thumping heels down, it's a more rolling gait than with a shoe, heel touches, little impact and weight, increasing weight as toes come down, toes push off, almost 'flicking' behind you.

On rough surfaces such as boglands, tussocky grass or lakeland rocky paths (or ice), I ran and walk toe down, just like Kim described.
Title: Re: Novice running
Post by: sojournermike on January 06, 2015, 02:09:41 pm
I've run more miles barefoot than I have with shoes on.


Barefoot or with 'barefoot' shoes? Just interested.

I think your gait analysis is correct - no need to thump and actually a range of gaits work and can be efficient.

Mike
Title: Re: Novice running
Post by: mrcharly-YHT on January 06, 2015, 02:20:12 pm
barefoot

I've done this in Australia and the UK, on roads, pavement, dirt tracks, rocky surfaces, snow and ice.

Worse surface was a road covered in plastic bottle tops from waterbottles during the Great North Run.
Title: Re: Novice running
Post by: SlowCoach on January 06, 2015, 02:54:35 pm
The other thing is that running really is fun for short runs around the block and you can still go for a bike ride later.

This ^^^

As a running newbie I'm finding that running and cycling are complementary. I can get up, go for a 30 minute jog, come home and get showered, have breakfast and then cycle into work. To get 30 minutes hard cycling in (hard enough to work up a sweat) before breakfast just isn't going to work. It would take too long to get the bike out, find my windproofs, faff with lights etc.

If I want to go out for a couple of hours to work off some energy - I'll cycle. If I want to go out for 30 minutes, I'll run. If I want to get from A to B efficiently and its more than 15 minutes walking (and under, say, 6 miles), I'll utility cycle. That's the theory this week. I do retain the right to change my mind about this in a few months time, though.
Title: Re: Novice running
Post by: SteveC on January 06, 2015, 06:21:25 pm
Hmm, this thread is semi-convincing me it might be good to try running again.
It was convincing me of the opposite.   ;D
Three year's ago I would have totally agreed with you, Kim! But the grind of hotel-drive-work-nowhere to go at lunchtime-drive-hotel, mostly in the dark, convinced me I had to try something and I found I actually enjoy running (which hadn't really happened the previous times I'd had a go).
Mind you, if you'd asked me about gardening 20 years ago (something else you're not keen on) I'd have been against that as well.
Title: Re: Novice running
Post by: mattc on January 06, 2015, 06:27:06 pm
That's a slippery slope - before you know it you'll be recommending G*lf.
Title: Re: Novice running
Post by: SteveC on January 06, 2015, 06:29:23 pm
There is a negative chance of that ever happening!  ;D
(Apart from anything else, playing golf together was one of the things MrsC tried with her ex when their relationship was getting rocky.)
Title: Re: Novice running
Post by: simonp on January 06, 2015, 06:57:48 pm
I managed to do a nasty injury in late 2010 - peroneal tendinitis caused by doing too much too soon. I went from almost nothing to 10k very quickly. I was ok until I did an interval session (400m intervals) and my ankle stopped working and I had to limp for 2 miles to get back to the office.

+1 to getting gait analysis. I’ve bought the same make of shoes ever since.

I’m playing football a lot at the moment - used to play indoors and stopped because of knee trouble. I now play on 3G Astroturf and it’s massively easier on my joints. I doubt I cover more than 5-6km in an hour but I don’t get sore. Running on tarmac is a lot harder on my body - much more so than a treadmill also.

Title: Re: Novice running
Post by: mark on January 06, 2015, 11:09:02 pm
Emphasizing duration over distance was a good way for me to start. Avoiding asphalt/tarmac/paved surfaces in favor of dirt, gravel, etc. when possible can save a lot of wear on the joints.
Title: Re: Novice running
Post by: CrazyEnglishTriathlete on January 07, 2015, 06:53:49 am
Loads of good advice above - especially on gait and shoes and not trying to do to much.  I was a reasonably good runner at school but cross-country was the only sporting activity which made me even more uncool than I already was so I gave up age 14 and didn't run seriously again until the age of 48 (two years ago).  Ten years before that I develop a persistent groin injury from playing indoor cricket and had got to the point where I wouldn't even run for a bus.  However, in the meantime I had discovered cycling and then long distance cycling, which kept me v. fit. 

The captain of our cycling club gave me some very good advice.  DON'T RUN TOO OFTEN.  I had more aerobic fitness than most runners from my cycle training.  And half the muscles I needed for running were like steel springs.  The other half, including the dodgy groin, were feeble.  Any engineering student will tell you this is a recipe for damaging the week muscles.  I took his advice and started gradually and only run once a week (that might be a bit extreme for some, who would like to get out more often).  Sometimes it would be two weeks between runs.  This way I was able to transfer my cycling fitness to running, adapt my body to running without injury. 

I went from zero to a half marathon in 5 months, and the following year did 2 marathons and this year a marathon and a 46-mile ultra-marathon (as well as 6 other marathons in training).  I'm giving up the serious running now as I don't have enough time to do this and cycling and I ENJOY CYCLING MORE. 

Two other bits of advice. 

1) I do stretch and cool down properly after every run (which I don't necessarily do after cycling). 
2) I'd echo the advice about running off road, especially if you get to longer distances.  If you run predominantly off-road its better to invest in a pair of trail running shoes rather than regular running shoes.  These have a little more ankle support and much better grip in the mud which will reduce the risk of twisting and slipping injuries.
Title: Re: Novice running
Post by: Paul on March 06, 2017, 09:48:40 pm
And here it is again.

Despite all the advice I overdid it last time. I was fairly good, but one morning I thought I was ready to run to work and I did. I actually walked about half of it, but it was still too much too soon*. I had painful shins and knees for several weeks and just decided it wasn't for me.

It might have stayed that way too if it weren't for a colleague suggesting a (short) triathlon this year.

So, I'm following the couch to 5k thing. It's not hugely different to my ad hoc approach, but I think I need the discipline.

I've also changed shoes. 2 years ago I invested in some proper shoes from a proper shop. They said I needed arches to push the inside of my feet up. I remember thinking it was weird at the time but assuming they knew what they were on about. However, I suspect that the shoes caused/contributed to the knee pains. I don't know, but I wonder whether it can be right to try to correct a foot after 50 years, especially when trying to teach that foot (and the other one) to run for the first time in ages.

So I got some neutral shoes last week and started running again on Saturday. The triathlon is in July. I'm two runs in. So far, so good.

(* let me know what colour/size you need for your 'Told You So' t-shirts)
Title: Re: Novice running
Post by: mike on March 07, 2017, 08:35:03 am
as a very novice runner with bad knees, the way I got through running every day in Feb was:
 - run / walk.  Start with 1:1 and build the run part up by 30 seconds a week so after 2 months you're at 5 mins run:1 min walk.  All your runs should be like that. I'm now at an hours running, still with walk breaks every 5 mins.
 - run slow on most of your runs.  Slower than that.  Get a GPS watch to check you're going slowly enough.
 - get a foam roller.  A lot of my knee pain turned out to be from tight connective tissue which is quite easy to fix : http://www.thekneepainguru.com/it-band-stretches-exercises-without-a-foam-roller/
 - shoes.. go to a shop with a treadmill and an expert to tell you what you need. 

triathlons are brilliant though, it's well worth getting through this bit!  [type 2 fun]
Title: Re: Novice running
Post by: TheRedEyeJedi on March 07, 2017, 08:57:41 am
Hi,  In a similar theme to the original post I have suddenly discovered I can run and that I enjoy it!  I agree that the simplicity of it really appeals rather than getting in and out of winter cycling kit.    Its also much easier to stay warm running this time of year than on a bike and you can give yourself similar punishment in a much shorter space of time.   As my partner is expecting it makes sense to switch to running for a while and minimize the time I am out of the house.   I have lost significant weight in the last year and stopped smoking so although I am still a big frame, its actually enjoyable to run now.   Its something I always wanted to do but never seriously felt I would be capable of. 

I was starting from the ground up with running and I am very conscious of injury so I started on the treadmill only with walk,run walk up to 5k.   I have been doing an hour or two of strengthening 3 or 4 times a week in the evenings in front of the tv.   Basic stability, kettle bell and body weight movements that focus on stability, especially for all the running specific muscles that cycling ignores..... http://www.runnersworld.com/training-video/ironstrength-workout.

In addition to that I fast walk 3-4 miles every lunch hour.

I have now progressed to 3 runs a week.

1. Interval run which is 3 x 8 minute intervals on the treadmill (lesser impact) and I am making them slightly quicker week by week
2. Out door 7 mile run which is a half mile warm up and warm down with a 6 mile tempo to run in the middle
3. Long run - which is at low intensity currently at 9 miles but will be increased by 10% each week

On the days I am not running I still walk and try to add some spin bike work to iron out my legs without impact.

My 10k time is down from 88 minutes to 57 minutes.   The thing that seems to be really working is the strength work in combination with the intervals.

Ive entered a marathon in October and im aiming for 4 hours.   I am also trying really hard to stretch daily and use a foam roller when I can stand it!

I have £40 running shoes from sport and soccer which matched my arch shape... I am going to our local running shop for my next pair with a gait analysis but while I am running in these without bother, or injury I am very hesitant to get rid of them. 

Does anyone know if a gait analysis also tells you how your foot strikes the ground?  I am trying really hard to run with a mid foot strike but would like some confirmation of that.
Title: Re: Novice running
Post by: Greenbank on March 07, 2017, 09:15:47 am
Does anyone know if a gait analysis also tells you how your foot strikes the ground?  I am trying really hard to run with a mid foot strike but would like some confirmation of that.

Depends on who does it. The gait analysis I had years ago had me running across the room with one footfall on a plate that mapped my foot strike. After doing that 4 or 5 times (after I got used to running naturally over it and not trying to force my foot to land on it or a specific way) I saw the details of the force map, I was naturally mid-foot, which I was happy with.
Title: Re: Novice running
Post by: Greenbank on March 07, 2017, 10:29:45 am
FWIW I started out running properly for the first time in September 2014. I've been playing 5-a-side football twice a week for 15+ years, and doing regular cycle commuting and Audax but I was far from running fit.

5-a-side football is good for CV fitness, but doesn't really do anything for straight line running. Stop/start/run/jog/walk/spring/walk/run/jog/etc for 60 minutes doesn't prepare you at all for an hour of steady running. In an hour of 5-a-side I'll probably cover 3-4km (depends on the size of the pitch and whether I needed to do my share of being in goal) which is way less than average walking speed overall.

Anyway, I had a gait check at the physio as I had broken my hip when I was only 2 years old and wanted to make sure I wasn't going to do myself damage. The physio also recommended the type of shoes I needed based on arches/pronation/etc and off I went.

He recommended to start off with 2 x 20 minute jogs a week (based on existing fitness from 5-a-side) and build up to 2 x 30 minute jogs adding no more than 10% (duration[1]) a week. When I reached 2 x 30 minute I should switch to 3 x 20 minute, and then maximum 10% increase again until I was running 3 x 1h a week. Speed or distance wasn't a concern at this point (I was doing most of my runs at about 10kph), it was just total duration and mostly done at the easier scale of things to minimise disinterest although I found my speed naturally increasing as I was getting fitter (and losing weight).

Given the 30 minute runs were typically 5k I moved one of my runs to Saturday morning to take in parkrun, and that helped give me a good speed workout and made me push myself faster than I would be able to do running on my own.

Stretching after a run is definitely a must; cyclists are generally very inflexible. Core strength exercises will help avoid many of the back/joint issues that new runners tend to be troubled by.

From there my running has taken off nicely, probably beyond what is relevant for a novice running thread. I'm still too heavy (weight down to 83kg but then back up to 92kg) but I don't seem to be having any problems because of this. Getting my weight down (and keeping it there) needs to be my priority, especially if I want to enjoy my running more and go faster. Extra weight takes its toll progressively more on longer runs.

1. I think my duration increase went something along the lines of: 20, 22, 24, 26, 28, 30, 33, 36, 39, 42, 46, 50, 55, 60.
Title: Re: Novice running
Post by: TheRedEyeJedi on March 07, 2017, 10:58:22 am

From there my running has taken off nicely, probably beyond what is relevant for a novice running thread. I'm still too heavy (weight down to 83kg but then back up to 92kg) but I don't seem to be having any problems because of this. Getting my weight down (and keeping it there) needs to be my priority, especially if I want to enjoy my running more and go faster. Extra weight takes its toll progressively more on longer runs.

1. I think my duration increase went something along the lines of: 20, 22, 24, 26, 28, 30, 33, 36, 39, 42, 46, 50, 55, 60.

Are those weekly miles totals or KMs?

What were your 5k times like at 83 and 92kgs?   I'm at 96 kgs currently (down from 120). Be interesting to know how much quicker a further 10kgs would equate to.
Title: Re: Novice running
Post by: Greenbank on March 07, 2017, 11:48:00 am
They were weekly durations (in minutes). That was my interpretation of a maximum 10% weekly increase.

The rest is answered over in the running thread as I don't want to derail this one: https://yacf.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=58.msg2142939#msg2142939
Title: Re: Novice running
Post by: Paul on August 10, 2017, 01:28:09 pm
I now run for 30 minutes 2 or 3 times a week, and really enjoy it. I might try for more, but I'm actually happy with what I'm doing, and how I'm feeling. I'm also in better shape (or so I'm told).

I do find that my knees feel a bit tender for the first 2 minutes, but then they're fine. Similarly, it takes a few minutes for my lungs/heart to warm up and settle in, such that I sometimes think I'm not going to be able to manage it. But I always do.

I didn't do the triathlon in the end - diary clash with a holiday. But I'm not sure that was ever really my thing. However, it was enjoyable getting fit and I'm going to keep it up.

Thanks again for all the advice.

P.
Title: Re: Novice running
Post by: perpetual dan on August 10, 2017, 10:08:25 pm
I've just run for the second time this week. That's the first time I've done that in at least 25 years. I used to do a bit of cross country and distance running as a teenager - it was the only sport I enjoyed, riding bikes was mostly pratting about in the woods. I was getting enthusiastic about a 10k in October, but having read this I think I might temper that. A park run feels like a good thing to build up to (from 10 minutes as 5 lots of 2 minutes run, 2 walk) in that sort of time. So thanks for the thread.
Title: Re: Novice running
Post by: mrcharly-YHT on August 11, 2017, 11:05:07 am
I've returned to jogging/running, when I thought my running days where over.

Post-hipgraft last year I had persistent pain in my hip joint when walking; not completely unexpected, I have a slightly malformed joint from Perthes and adult arthritis is a given. The graft and muscle severance had affected my gait, I guess that brought on problems in the other hip.

Anyway, that pain went away by itself, so I've tentatively tried jogging again. Just twice a week, but I'm up to 4.5km now and nothing more than slight grumbles from the hip. That's better than I possibly expected. I dream of being able to do distance fell-running, but suspect that will remain a dream.
Title: Re: Novice running
Post by: Peter on August 17, 2017, 10:06:14 pm
Just seen this thread and I'm disappointed. I'd hoped it might be related to nun-runnnig and was looking forward to a steamy, Latin-American adventure story, Joseph Conrad for kids type of thing.
Title: Re: Novice running
Post by: citoyen on August 18, 2017, 09:38:43 am
Just seen this thread and I'm disappointed. I'd hoped it might be related to nun-runnnig and was looking forward to a steamy, Latin-American adventure story, Joseph Conrad for kids type of thing.

I'm sure specialist websites already exist* for that kind of thing but I'm not going to google them for you.


*rule 34
Title: Re: Novice running
Post by: Hot Flatus on August 18, 2017, 10:06:43 am
I've rediscovered running this week by sheer chance. I've been doing a fair bit of walking (14 miles a day of Dorset coast path) and one day, after about 4 miles, I decided to break into a jog in my walking boots. I loved It, and felt none of the usual tightness I feel if breaking into a run for any reason. I think I ran for about 15 minutes, but I could have carried on. Little bit of tightness along the front of my lower legs the next day but that was all.

The lessons were twofold, the 4 mile walk warm up really helped, and trail running is for me, road running is not. I'm enthused, especially given where I live and the opportunity it offer for off-road. I've ordered a pair of trail shoes and I cant wait to get home and get the map out.

Did another run a few days later on a different stretch of coast path, 30 minutes this time and in trainers. 4 miles walk warm up again. Brilliant.
Title: Re: Novice running
Post by: Peter on August 18, 2017, 01:19:09 pm
Just seen this thread and I'm disappointed. I'd hoped it might be related to nun-runnnig and was looking forward to a steamy, Latin-American adventure story, Joseph Conrad for kids type of thing.

I'm sure specialist websites already exist* for that kind of thing but I'm not going to google them for you.


*rule 34

 ;)
Title: Re: Novice running
Post by: Hot Flatus on August 25, 2017, 11:06:23 am
Follow up on my novice running.

Walked 35 miles on Monday and 18 on Tuesday.

My feet are destroyed. Knee pain on rhs, and achilles on left.

You can walk too much.
Title: Re: Novice running
Post by: sojournermike on August 25, 2017, 03:47:30 pm
Follow up on my novice running.

Walked 35 miles on Monday and 18 on Tuesday.

My feet are destroyed. Knee pain on rhs, and achilles on left.

You can walk too much.

You should have run


;)
Title: Re: Novice running
Post by: mrcharly-YHT on September 11, 2017, 11:23:01 am
I'm only managing to jog about twice a week, if that. Hard to find the time.

On Sat I was in Edinburgh and slightly at a loose end. York is flat, Edinburgh has a rather lovely hill, so it had to be done. So I very slowly jogged from the hostel to Arthur's Seat and attempted to jog up the steps. That was a bit of a mistake, should have gone the long way round by some path but didn't know the way. Made it halfway up the steps before being reduced to a fast walk.

Still, according to Strava on that 'segment' my time up was just off mid-field for all times recorded, which is a bit surprising given my age, lack of fitness and complete lack of practise at hills!

A bigger surprise, given that I ran back down via a very very steep grassy, dirt track was that I didn't have sore legs the next day. I had expected that I'd have killed my 50-yr-old knees but they are fine.
Title: Re: Novice running
Post by: essexian on September 11, 2017, 07:58:17 pm
Well that was interesting..... I have just been to the Complete Beginners session at my local running club.

After a talk about what we were going to do over the next 14 weeks building up to being able to run for 55 minutes at a time, we did our first session: 8 x 1 mins running with 90 seconds of walking in-between. The idea was to go at the pace which you felt comfortable with and making sure you breathe.... breathing is harder than it looks when running!

Overall, I didn't find the running too difficult although I have a terrible running style which I hope the tutors will help me fix and out of the 19 people there, I was somewhere towards the back speed wise.

Now, an hour later, I have a bit of a cramp in my left calf and my right thigh is a little painful but generally, it was not as difficult as I thought it would be.  The next class is Wednesday and then the tutors suggest that we do another session ourselves on Friday. The tutors seem to have grand plans for us including a 10km run after Christmas..... we will see about that!  :-\

Don't think I will never be a runner: I weigh far too much and am getting old, but improving my overall fitness is my goal, especially after the NHS test showed my heart age to be 70!  :facepalm:
Title: Re: Novice running
Post by: Paul on September 11, 2017, 09:12:03 pm
It's surprising what you can do.

I'm 52 so my knees - as they keep reminding me - are 104. I remain (stubbornly) 14st. I've been running now since Feb (when I started the couch to 5 k programme). I still haven't done more than 30 minutes, and I have not managed to do 5k yet (4.2 seems to be the average), but I'm relaxed about that. Running for 30 mins twice a week is doing it for me.
Title: Re: Novice running
Post by: harvey on September 21, 2017, 04:39:16 pm
I started seriously running 5 months ago. Now doing around 15-18 miles a week, running every other day - a really slow 6mi run then a faster 3mi the next time. The rest days are biking or just long walks. I don't know if FetchEveryone.com has been mentioned, but it's a really good running site where you can enter a running log and shoot the breeze with others re running. The benefits beside losing weight and slimming down; I'm just a lot calmer don't argue so much with Mrs H, breathe so much better, sleep like a log, wake earlier and feeling great all day.
Title: Re: Novice running
Post by: Polar Bear on September 21, 2017, 05:08:21 pm
I didn't think that I would run again after my accident in 2014 but last year I bought a Garmin Forerunner from Sojournermike (still kidding myself that I would run again).  I have used it as a backup to the Edge 200 on the bars for recording ride data. 

A couple of weeks back one of my friends suddenly decided that he'd like to run.  He;'s in his sixties and claims to have never previously run in his entire life - even as a child!!!

We did our third run today.  We have started with 30 seconds run, 30 walk and targeted a mile.  Our average pace over the distance has dropped from 7 mins 43 secs per kilometre to 7 mins 8 secs in just three sessions.   Next week we're moving to 35 seconds run, 30 seconds walk.   We have two runs a week in the diary as we also cycle twice weekly and he swims twice weekly (I will be walking on his swim days until May for a different challenge).

We're breaking in carefully for differing reasons but I'm already really fired up and have signed up for Parkrun.  I am targeting January 13th 2018 as my inaugural Parkrun and hope to do it in less than 30 minutes.   I think that I might do an extra run session on Saturdays when he has a 'rest' day!!

Having run marathons in my past these are small steps but they are also fun steps.   :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Novice running
Post by: sojournermike on September 22, 2017, 03:16:09 am
I didn't think that I would run again after my accident in 2014 but last year I bought a Garmin Forerunner from Sojournermike (still kidding myself that I would run again).  I have used it as a backup to the Edge 200 on the bars for recording ride data. 

A couple of weeks back one of my friends suddenly decided that he'd like to run.  He;'s in his sixties and claims to have never previously run in his entire life - even as a child!!!

We did our third run today.  We have started with 30 seconds run, 30 walk and targeted a mile.  Our average pace over the distance has dropped from 7 mins 43 secs per kilometre to 7 mins 8 secs in just three sessions.   Next week we're moving to 35 seconds run, 30 seconds walk.   We have two runs a week in the diary as we also cycle twice weekly and he swims twice weekly (I will be walking on his swim days until May for a different challenge).

We're breaking in carefully for differing reasons but I'm already really fired up and have signed up for Parkrun.  I am targeting January 13th 2018 as my inaugural Parkrun and hope to do it in less than 30 minutes.   I think that I might do an extra run session on Saturdays when he has a 'rest' day!!

Having run marathons in my past these are small steps but they are also fun steps.   :thumbsup:

Mike, it may seem odd, but reading this has filled me with joy. I hope you continue to enjoy:)
Title: Re: Novice running
Post by: Polar Bear on September 22, 2017, 07:22:03 am
Thanks Mike.   Much appreciated.   :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Novice running
Post by: sojournermike on September 22, 2017, 09:59:21 pm
My 12 year old has just informed that she wants to do park run tomorrow:)
Title: Re: Novice running
Post by: perpetual dan on September 22, 2017, 10:16:57 pm
Nice to hear of others' progress. I'm up to 4 lots of 4 mins run and 1 walk now, and enjoying it despite the darkness for evening runs. Have registered on the parkrun site too.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Title: Re: Novice running
Post by: Greenbank on September 23, 2017, 11:58:35 am
Haven't done parkrun for ages, need to get back into the routine.

Daughter (7) wants to get back in to it but she does Tennis on a Saturday morning so only gets to do parkrun in the holidays (and then we're usually away).
Title: Re: Novice running
Post by: CrazyEnglishTriathlete on September 24, 2017, 05:06:50 pm
I started running in November 2011 in my late forties after not having run any distance for close on twenty years.  In 2002 I injured my groin playing indoor cricket and that pretty much stopped even the occasional run.  But I got persuaded back because the office I worked for did the Reading Half Marathon big time.  I follow two golden rules - the first is that I stretch religiously after every run - because if I don't then I have to hobble.  The second is that I only run once a week, which lets all the niggles that I get from running settle down.  I get my aerobic fitness from continuing to cycle c5000 miles a year.  This doesn't appear in any text books on running but most text books on running are about running from scratch, not adapting leg strength and aerobic fitness from 15+ years of Audax.

I built up the distance little by little (and still do so, generally increasing my distance by 10% each week and every 3 - 4 weeks dropping back a bit).

I now run most winters as my cross-training, using trails rather than roads (blessed by having a balanced gait, perhaps from running cross-country in my youth) and hope to continue for a long time.  The next big project is to run the Basingstoke Canal, which is c60km from West Byfleet.
Title: Re: Novice running
Post by: LEE on September 26, 2017, 05:06:22 pm
If I see 11st anything on the scales then I may give running a go.  I'm not prepared to subject my joints to 13st impacts every half second or so.

I can't help noticing just home many people wear some sort of knee/ankle support on the Gt North run and the London Marathon. 
Many of the runners, in my mind, seem way too heavy to be running for marathons and half marathons.

Title: Re: Novice running
Post by: Polar Bear on September 26, 2017, 05:08:25 pm
My marathon running weight as a mere twenty something / thirty something year old was 12st 7lbs.  My knees are just fine and I've just restarted running with a few extra stone.  So far no problems but I'll keep fingers crossed.
Title: Re: Novice running
Post by: sojournermike on September 26, 2017, 05:56:27 pm
If I see 11st anything on the scales then I may give running a go.  I'm not prepared to subject my joints to 13st impacts every half second or so.

I can't help noticing just home many people wear some sort of knee/ankle support on the Gt North run and the London Marathon. 
Many of the runners, in my mind, seem way too heavy to be running for marathons and half marathons.

I have some sympathy with this view. I'm 6' 1" and currently very fractionally under 13st. I was not entirely happy running any distance when I was the far side of 15st and know that I'll be happier under 12... However, I suspect that the knee and ankle supports are at least as much about inadequate strength and injury culture.  Of course, the former is entirely related to weight given that is what the strength is needed to carry.
Title: Re: Novice running
Post by: Greenbank on September 26, 2017, 08:53:44 pm
If I see 11st anything on the scales then I may give running a go.  I'm not prepared to subject my joints to 13st impacts every half second or so.

1/3 of a second is what the experts suggest (180spm) but I tend to run at 160spm. Maybe my cadence will increase when I get down to a more sensible weight.

I can't help noticing just home many people wear some sort of knee/ankle support on the Gt North run and the London Marathon. 
Many of the runners, in my mind, seem way too heavy to be running for marathons and half marathons.

It's certainly easier when lighter. After running marathons (last two years) at 86kg and 92kg I've said I'll only do another if my weight begins with a 7 (i.e. 79.9kg or less).
Title: Re: Novice running
Post by: CrazyEnglishTriathlete on September 26, 2017, 09:55:29 pm
If I see 11st anything on the scales then I may give running a go.  I'm not prepared to subject my joints to 13st impacts every half second or so.

I can't help noticing just home many people wear some sort of knee/ankle support on the Gt North run and the London Marathon. 
Many of the runners, in my mind, seem way too heavy to be running for marathons and half marathons.

I'm 84kg / 13st 4lb at 189cm/6'2" and a bit.  Apparently, from when I've been videoed running to get the right running shoes my running gait is natural.  I do wonder if the knee./ankle support is more about running with a poor action or running when not properly rested/recovered from a niggle, than it is about weight.
Title: Re: Novice running
Post by: Greenbank on September 26, 2017, 11:42:59 pm
I see so many people on the Thames Path running with pronounced limps, only a quarter of them (I guess) have knee/patella bandages. Some people just like to bake in bad form.

I was worried after one run (https://connect.garmin.com/modern/activity/1075083351) when I looked at the L/R balance (Ground Contact Time Balance if you scroll down on that link) as it looked like I progressively switched from R to L over the course of the run (which could indicate compensation for an injury), however it was a straight out/back run along the Thames Path with the inflexion point exactly at the point I turned round (Richmond Bridge). The simple answer is that the path gently slopes towards the river and it is natural to counter this as you run, so there was longer contact on the side closer to the river (to push me up more on that foot). Other runs along that path have confirmed this.
Title: Re: Novice running
Post by: sojournermike on September 27, 2017, 11:46:48 am
Ooh, more data. My Garmin 235 doesn't give me all that information. Probably a good thing.

Agree form is important, but form is related to strength. Consequently, form breaks down as people tire. When I was young, I always felt a lot of runners would benefit from doing much more short fast work and less long slow slots. Largely because this would improve strength and form without being so limited my they broke down.

Also, although I'm a mid to forefoot striker, I don't think there's any evidence that other gaits are inherently more injury prone. It's more down to building the protective strength in the musculature and letting the bones adapt also. Both of these happen more slowly than initial CV improvement, hence the large number of subjects who pick up a njuries in the 6 to 18 week timeframe.

Knee issue are often pre-existing from other sport I suspect;)
Title: Re: Novice running
Post by: Oscar's dad on April 02, 2019, 05:18:37 pm
The Current Mrs R and I are doing the Couch to 5k plan and loving it!   We are about to start week 5 although its taken us a little more than 5 weeks to get here.  I was always dead against running as I have suffered with shin splints albeit in my late teens  ::-)  But TCMR was keen so I decided to give it a go.  We mix running outdoors with running on the treadmills in the gym.  We have both had a running shoe fitting and decent shoes have made a world of difference.  I'm annoyed with myself that l missed out for so many years.
Title: Re: Novice running
Post by: Paul on April 02, 2019, 07:56:32 pm
It’s revelatory, isn’t it?

I didn’t run at all last year. I hurt my knees running the line at football. MRI. Some internal damage.

I was able to keep cycling but decided to wait until I was absolutely sure I could run again.

Started again from scratch at Christmas and recently got back to 30 minute runs. :thumbsup:

The programme is very clever. It pushes you, and it’s hard, but it’s always (just) doable. I think it’s mostly in the mind.
Title: Re: Novice running
Post by: Oscar's dad on April 03, 2019, 12:34:10 am
It’s revelatory, isn’t it...

The programme is very clever. It pushes you, and it’s hard, but it’s always (just) doable. I think it’s mostly in the mind.

Revelatory is the word, definitely.  And I agree the Couch to 5k programme is clever, the progress we are making is very evident.  I like how you can choose your celeb to tell you what to do, I have Sarah Millican urging me on  ;D
Title: Re: Novice running
Post by: Aleksdad1 on April 03, 2019, 11:57:34 am
Like many I ran at school at a reasonable standard combining it with cycling then soon gave both up. Took up cycling again in my late 20s and got to a good Scottish standard before stopping once again after a couple of years. Restarted running in my mid thirties and got to a fair club standard in a couple of years doing regular 2.40 marathons before another hiatus. Started once again about 18 months ago in my early 70s and have gone from 32 min 5ks to 58 mins for 10k with plenty of room for improvement. Took up Audaxing in my late 50s and I am still doing a few and managed a 10hr hilly 200 piloting my tandem with a remarkably fit stoker on Saturday past followed by my first half marathon in 25 yrs the next day. Took over double the time I recorded on my last half but was delighted to finish injury free. My approach now is by doing few running miles(10 per week) with more walking miles, some swimming, Pilates and two or three sessions on my Atom per week. I don't like the cold(Raynauds) so have only been out on the bike for the three Audaxes I have done this year. My weight has come down by 5 kilos to 65ks over the past year. Motivation is provided by trying to keep up with my partner who is ten years younger and much fitter and has only recently discovered athletic activity although she has long been a keen Yoga practitioner.
Title: Re: Novice running
Post by: Paul on April 03, 2019, 01:50:51 pm
I like how you can choose your celeb to tell you what to do, I have Sarah Millican urging me on  ;D
Suzy used the app (or whatever you call it) and she chose Sarah Millican too. She is lovely, apparently (Sarah Millican) (And Suzy, but not "apparently") (Well, she (Suzy) is also apparently lovely, but she's actually lovely too) (Sarah Millican might be actually lovely too too, I just don't know).

Where was I?

Oh yes, I just used a watch. Bit of a faff (but less faffy IMO than making sure your phone and speakers are charged, and connecting them to you some how), but think I prefer running without more tech.

Suzy's speakers lost power part way around her run last week and she said she was bored. Whatever I feel about running, it's never boring.
Title: Re: Novice running
Post by: Oscar's dad on April 03, 2019, 01:53:54 pm
We use the app on our phones and it works really well. TCMR chose Michael Johnson.
Title: Re: Novice running
Post by: Paul on April 03, 2019, 01:57:12 pm
Have they got Scarlett Johansson?
Title: Re: Novice running
Post by: Oscar's dad on April 03, 2019, 05:14:04 pm
Have they got Scarlett Johansson?

I’ll check  ;D
Title: Re: Novice running
Post by: Sergeant Pluck on August 30, 2019, 09:33:15 am
Two or three years ago, I decided to do a bit of running... 
To cut a long story short, I had a complete fracture of my calcaneus...

Two errors:

1. Not building up slowly enough.

1b. Poor running technique: heel strike. Very difficult to train yourself out of this.

2. Not having proper running shoes. I had good trainers, but there were not running shoes and they were getting on a bit. Running shoes need to be replaced regularly.

Now having another go - on week 3 of the Couch to 5k. All ok so far. I don't seem to be as bad a heel striker as I thought. I have appreciated the slow rate of progress of the programme, I think that is what I need. The only discomfort so far is at the front of the hip joint on both sides - feels like hip flexor pain rather than the joint itself.

This time I am running in the park next door - Marble Hill Park - and a bit on the Thames path and I think I am benefiting from running partly on grass and mud paths.

Contemplating the Parkrun when I get a bit further on.
Title: Re: Novice running
Post by: Oscar's dad on August 30, 2019, 09:39:06 am
Having completed Couch to 5k back in June and then comfortably running longer distances I have now knackered my left knee and The Current Mrs R has knackered the arch of her right foot. Frustrating it is  >:( :'(
Title: Re: Novice running
Post by: Sergeant Pluck on August 30, 2019, 09:48:26 am
That's a bugger, OD.

I have made mental note of the earlier comment that it is easy to collect an injury in the 9 - 12 week stage after starting from scratch.

This time I am not really planning to do more than 5k.
Title: Re: Novice running
Post by: Oscar's dad on August 30, 2019, 09:55:48 am
That's a bugger, OD.

I have made mental note of the earlier comment that it is easy to collect an injury in the 9 - 12 week stage after starting from scratch.

This time I am not really planning to do more than 5k.

And as we’re still away in France it makes it difficult to get advice and / or treatment.
Title: Re: Novice running
Post by: Peat on August 30, 2019, 09:59:01 am
I started running in the spring.

Started on the C25K thing but quicly got frustrated and started just doing regular 5 - 10km runs.

Developed tendonitus in my left foot. Bought some insoles. Didn't improve.

Stopped running.
-------------------

Now i have a knee problem that requires me to stop cycling, so i'm looking at the runnings again. Been on a few steady walk.run.walks. I think long brisk walks might be a good thing to better prepare my atrophied ligaments/tendons.
Title: Re: Novice running
Post by: Sergeant Pluck on September 16, 2019, 11:31:40 am
Piriformis syndrome - that's the outcome of my Google diagnosis.

Somewhat annoying as 1) this can take a while to resolve and 2) I thought doing Pilates for years might mitigate against such things.

I think I'll refrain from running until this is better, hopefully a week will do it, and then restart C25K on week 3.



Title: Re: Novice running
Post by: CrazyEnglishTriathlete on September 17, 2019, 06:54:41 pm
After not running between 1980 and 2011, gradually built up through half-marathons to marathons and was into ultra territory when I injured my foot last November.  Physio suggests a stress fracture that didn't heal properly, and it may require surgery.  I'm now happy to walk reasonable distances but have stayed away from running.  But it the next two weeks will probably do a gentle 3k around Basing Common and see how it responds and if I can keep going, very gradually build up the distances again.
Title: Re: Novice running
Post by: Paul on September 18, 2019, 07:24:01 am
I stopped in April: work got in the way for a few weeks then I lost my mojo.

So, yesterday, I started again at the beginning: one minute running; 90 seconds walking; repeat 8 times.

I really enjoyed it, but I’ achy.