Yet Another Cycling Forum

General Category => Audax => Topic started by: jochta on April 29, 2015, 08:39:35 am

Title: [HAMR] Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: jochta on April 29, 2015, 08:39:35 am
Couldn't see anywhere where a collation of observer's thoughts was so...

Must admit after Steve's injury the fun of the challenge pretty much ended for me. This and Tarzan's illness shows how vulnerable the record is to incidents out of your control.

The following are all IMO...


All three challenges have further proved how incredible Tommy's record is and anyone who beats it will be the owner of one incredible achievement and I wish them all the best of luck.

John
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Wowbagger on April 29, 2015, 09:18:26 am
I think I've thought most of that all year long, but previously it was merely theory. Now we have the practice.

Having said that, if Steve thinks it's still viable for this year, albeit much shakier than before his injury, I'd never write him off.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: notlobgp14 on April 29, 2015, 09:56:41 am

"Must admit after Steve's injury the fun of the challenge pretty much ended for me. This and Tarzan's illness shows how vulnerable the record is to incidents out of your control."

Regarding the fun; I can agree with you to some degree, but don't you think we the 'followers' got carried away and over hyped the attempt?  By that I mean we could have thought he was invincible?  There could also have been something along those lines getting into Steve's head?  It was all going very well, and probably can get back on track.  That weekend of the accident was going to be an extreme test, late finish, early start and 300 miles for a target.  The moped rider can't have known anything about that and Steve was just riding a bike on a road.  It could be a case of 'the butterfly flapping it's wings'?


Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Canardly on April 29, 2015, 10:02:15 am
Don't underestimate Steve's determination.  :)
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Climberruss on April 29, 2015, 10:06:09 am
Dont underestimate Steve's determination.  :)

I wouldn't underestimate any of the contenders determination, 2 out of 3 have had setbacks, there will be further setbacks. Recovering from these and carrying on actually makes the conest more not less interesting. It also highlights more and more the original superlative level of Tommy G's acheivement.
Remember, this is a year long contest, not a few days or weeks or even months...
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Wowbagger on April 29, 2015, 10:22:01 am
And we are nearly one-third of the way through.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: hillbilly on April 29, 2015, 11:58:03 am
Honest thought is that once felt significant now feels much less so.  In part because of the remoteness of the two overseas challengers.  In part because I view the MK Bowl circuits as filler. 

The fizz may return if Steve starts a new attempt, but I suspect I will feel less enthralled than the first 3 months.  In part because the daily comparison of Steve v Kurt will be less meaningful than when they were separated by 10 days.  Basing this on how I feel about Miles' challenge vs Steve and Kurt (which is much less engaged).

My guess about the riders are:
Steve: Will not exceed Tommy's total in 2015.  Likely to in 2016 if he stays injury free
Kurt: Will not exceed Tommy's total but will get close.
Miles: Will exceed Tommy's total if he stays injury free.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: mrcharly-YHT on April 29, 2015, 03:04:05 pm
  • Steve's chance is gone for 2015.

The chance of Steve beating the tommy Godwin record are slim in this year.

However, Steve is virtually certain to get the UMCA record, as it is age-based and he will be the first official contender to complete 365 days.

I share your doubts about Mile's ability to keep going at this rate. As demonstrated by Kurt, it's not just about miles, it is also about maintaining your body health. Such a bloody irony that the person being most organised about not overstressing themselves gets injured by a drunk moton.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: andrew531 on April 29, 2015, 03:32:14 pm
The Facebook video that has just been posted by Steve states that the aim is still to ride 75,000 miles this calendar year. Seems the only thing that has changed since he had the accident is that he is drinking coffee and not tea!
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: rabbit on April 30, 2015, 10:57:44 am
I think Steve will break the record this year, even if it is by just 100 miles.

I think he will smash it if he can stay fit and accident free on the 15/16 attempt as he will be coming into that 'running' after maintaining fitness on the trike and with the winter's worth of experience. 

I think Kurt and Miles both stand good chances of putting in huge totals, but I suspect Kurt may break either physically or mentally.  I hope he doesn't, I like the guy.   

One thing is for certain - only Steve will hold the UK Tommy Godwin record if he breaks it.  Surely attempting the record in the UK should be the Gold Standard, with the variable traffic, climate, short roads, junctions and traffic?   ;)
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Wowbagger on May 01, 2015, 01:37:10 am
If everything goes well, I think Steve still has a chance of breaking the record this year. As we have said many times, that "if" is the biggest of all. There are so many things that can go wrong.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: CrazyEnglishTriathlete on May 01, 2015, 06:27:46 am
Been busy this week so hadn't noticed how Steve has upped his mileage to 100 miles per day one legged.  I will be a big ask to catch up the lost mileage but in doing so even if he doesn't get the record this year, he will be on track for a 1 July to 30 June 2016 HAMR.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: liam_whippet on May 01, 2015, 09:09:13 am
.. which will include a 'bonus' day on Feb 29 ..    8)


[Are there UMCA rulez about 366 day years?? eg Miles will do one, but Kurt won't?]
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Oaky on May 01, 2015, 09:13:15 am
.. which will include a 'bonus' day on Feb 29 ..    8)


[Are there UMCA rulez about 366 day years?? eg Miles will do one, but Kurt won't?]

UMCA HAM'R year is defined as 365 consecutive days.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: red marley on May 01, 2015, 09:17:57 am
Walter Greaves was given the record for 1936, which included a bonus Feb 29th. He did have the disadvantage of being one limb short of the usual four and losing a few days to delays in his new bike being delivered. Not that that would ever happen again.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Kim on May 01, 2015, 02:22:32 pm
Been busy this week so hadn't noticed how Steve has upped his mileage to 100 miles per day one legged.

No, he's now firing on both cylinders, though presumably the left leg is still doing the bulk of the work.  It does suggest that his ankle is happy with the range of motion, which can only be a good sign.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: velovoice on May 01, 2015, 05:02:56 pm
Been busy this week so hadn't noticed how Steve has upped his mileage to 100 miles per day one legged.

No, he's now firing on both cylinders, though presumably the left leg is still doing the bulk of the work.  It does suggest that his ankle is happy with the range of motion, which can only be a good sign.
I hesitate to comment without first tracking down my sources but I'm sure I saw a comment from one of his team this week saying his ankle is not very happy. And TG himself said on here a few days ago (which thread??) that he feels in need of physiotherapy. I hope that's being lined up sooner rather than later.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: LittleWheelsandBig on May 01, 2015, 05:05:23 pm
Physio should have been happening for a while now, though I don't know if it actually is happening now.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Canardly on May 01, 2015, 08:28:23 pm
Such things are legends made of.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Martin on May 22, 2015, 09:26:57 pm
so is the attempt still going? just doing a bit of maths it's going to require an average of 241 miles a day for the rest of the year (ie until 31st Dec) for Steve to break it
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: andyoxon on May 22, 2015, 09:58:00 pm
so is the attempt still going? just doing a bit of maths it's going to require an average of 241 miles a day for the rest of the year (ie until 31st Dec) for Steve to break it

eek, that's ~390km...
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: hillbilly on May 23, 2015, 05:39:01 am
That is still within the average implied by Steve's pessimistic schedule, if you look at jo's very informative chart.  It is a stupefying number that hardly seems possible. But those kind of distances were achieved by Godwin. Brings it home how hard this challenge always has been, doesn't it?
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: andrew531 on May 23, 2015, 10:41:43 pm
Steve is going for it. Today tracker shows 236.07 miles. He's been doing longer rides at the weekend and then gradually upping the weekday rides.Hope the ankle is well. Looking like it won't be too long before we see a ride approaching 300 miles!!!!!
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Climberruss on May 23, 2015, 11:34:58 pm
Steve is going for it. Today tracker shows 236.07 miles. He's been doing longer rides at the weekend and then gradually upping the weekday rides.Hope the ankle is well. Looking like it won't be too long before we see a ride approaching 300 miles!!!!!

The ride he is on now will be nearly 400 miles - its a 600km audax ride.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: andyoxon on May 24, 2015, 10:58:18 am
So the required is almost a 400km each day, with a 400km recovery ride the next day no recovery ride, and repeat...  Mind is boggling again.

Go Steve!
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Justin(e) on May 24, 2015, 03:31:49 pm
So the required is almost a 400km each day, with a 400km recovery ride the next day no recovery ride, and repeat...  Mind is boggling again.

Go Steve!

Go Steve indeed.

BUT ...
I really don't think it is constructive to speculate on an average of 400km/day for the rest of the year. 
Some day - perhaps in my lifetime - we'll see a sub 2hr marathon.  But this is the sub 1:50 equivalent.  Possible to maintain the pace for a couple of days but not humanely possible to keep up through summer, autumn and winter.

Matching Tommy Goodwin is pretty superhuman.  Shading the record is possible and probable if all things went well.  But smashing it to smithereens, is just not on the cards.  Some sanity please.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: The Seldom Killer on May 24, 2015, 04:57:45 pm
To hell with sanity. Many of humanity's greatest achievements have been completed by flying in the face of sanity. We'll only know if someone can achieve the seemingly impossible by giving it a decent go.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: jsabine on May 24, 2015, 05:05:06 pm
So the required is almost a 400km each day, with a 400km recovery ride the next day no recovery ride, and repeat...  Mind is boggling again.

Go Steve!

Go Steve indeed.

BUT ...
I really don't think it is constructive to speculate on an average of 400km/day for the rest of the year. 
Some day - perhaps in my lifetime - we'll see a sub 2hr marathon.  But this is the sub 1:50 equivalent.  Possible to maintain the pace for a couple of days but not humanely possible to keep up through summer, autumn and winter.

Matching Tommy Goodwin is pretty superhuman.  Shading the record is possible and probable if all things went well.  But smashing it to smithereens, is just not on the cards.  Some sanity please.

Interesting that you're so confident it's only possible to maintain an average over 400km/day for a couple of days. Tommy Godwin managed it for a couple of months straight in June and July - and even though his mileage fell off in August and September, that only dropped his 4-month average to 399.5km/day.

(In fact, a 308 mile day on May 31st tips his 123 day average back over the 400km mark - at 400.3 - astonishing.)

Tommy Godwin daily average
June 1939 (http://www.tommygodwin.com/1939-stats/june/): 255.37 miles/411km
July 1939 (http://www.tommygodwin.com/1939-stats/july/): 276.87 miles/445km
August 1939 (http://www.tommygodwin.com/1939-stats/august/): 237.65 miles/382km
September 1939 (http://www.tommygodwin.com/1939-stats/september/): 222.47 miles/358km
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: jochta on May 26, 2015, 01:41:07 pm
Quote
Miles is clearly insane and I just don't think any human is capable of doing what he's trying to do for 365 days without their body breaking down at some point.

Partially collapsed lung and chest infection. The body cannae take any more cap'n. GWS.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: mzjo on May 26, 2015, 08:38:08 pm
A point that seems to be getting forgotten is that Tommy Godwin was a 29yr old full time rider and racer in his prime; it is almost dismissive of his efforts to think that a couple of 50yr olds are competing at the same level of potential performance (not very well put but someone will understand I hope), even if endurance riders do hit their peak later in life than short distance riders (and on that score it is also interesting to note the extremely tender ages of some of the pioneering french diagonalists).
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: mrcharly-YHT on May 27, 2015, 11:11:35 am
Steve isn't 50, but I definitely do take your point.

The 'bounce back' ability of a 29-year-old is far greater than someone over 40.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: wajcgac on May 28, 2015, 06:44:09 pm
With the recent progress that Steve has made are we likely to see the start of a concurrent record attempt shortly?
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Arry-R on May 28, 2015, 06:58:37 pm
I'd not rule out a concurrent attempt starting 1st of July or August.  looking at Steve's lower target for June was 265 miles per day with July being 285 per day.  I doubt he would wish to start before he was up to speed (so to speak) on that basis
none of us doubt he will choose the best timing mindful of his proven track record!
G O    S T E V E

 :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:-
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Arry-R on May 28, 2015, 07:00:27 pm
ps  which 400 or 600 is he doing this weekend for PBP ???
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: wilkyboy on May 28, 2015, 08:14:24 pm
ps  which 400 or 600 is he doing this weekend for PBP ???

Steve's already qualified: Asparagus & Strawberries 400 (http://aukweb.net/results/archive/2015/listevent/?Ride=15-901) (trice) and The Flatlands 600 (http://aukweb.net/results/archive/2015/listevent/?Ride=15-549) (upright with crutches) on consecutive weekends two weeks ago.  He re-rode The Flatlands last weekend for fun (upright without crutches)   :thumbsup:

I've no idea what he's riding this weekend.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: LittleWheelsandBig on May 28, 2015, 08:16:20 pm
Riding the same event twice doesn't count. I make it that he has ridden 200, 400 and 600 qualifiers so far, so missing a 300+ BRM.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: wilkyboy on May 28, 2015, 08:17:51 pm
Riding the same event twice doesn't count. I make it that he has ridden 200, 400 and 600 qualifiers so far.

Ah, my bad: I forgot he was a 300 short.  Surely they'll let him ride anyway as a multiple ancien?
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: LittleWheelsandBig on May 28, 2015, 08:19:12 pm
That is not a given. Hopefully he is looking at doing another qualifier, to do it properly.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: mzjo on May 28, 2015, 08:26:19 pm
Steve isn't 50, but I definitely do take your point.

The 'bounce back' ability of a 29-year-old is far greater than someone over 40.

Yes and I was thinking more of the two vénérables than of Steve who has demonstrated awesome rebound characteristics (although even there there is a logic to vets starting at 40).
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: hillbilly on May 30, 2015, 09:51:39 pm
As Steve's recovery comes on leaps and bounds, will we soon be speaking about his Second current attempt?
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Tim Hall on May 30, 2015, 10:50:34 pm
Idle back of envelope sums:

Steve's miles to date : 22279

That's more or less at the end of May

Looking at his published schedules, going with the 82835 first, June to December is scheduled to be 52285.  Add that to the mileage so far gives 74564, which is a shade under the 75065.

If we use the figures from the higher 87129 schedule, June to September is 54480. Add the mileage so far takes us to 76759.

Have I missed anything?
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: hillbilly on May 31, 2015, 06:34:32 am
Looks in line with what jo's chart is suggesting.

Of course, both are just projections. It is possible Steve could force himself to ride further distances than originally planned when is gets to the back end of 2015.

Every day that Steve posts a sub 200 mile day, it is a large chunk out of his prospects of achieving Tommy's high water mark.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Martin on May 31, 2015, 08:31:29 am
I'm just calculating Steve's daily required average for the rest of 2015 which is approaching 245miles

Kurt is piling in big rides right now but his required average is currently 208 against his ridden average of 201 so at this pace it will still be a couple of weeks before he is level with Tommy
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: red marley on May 31, 2015, 08:34:45 am
In case you missed it, the OYTT chart page (http://gicentre.org/oytt/) always shows the required daily average figure for each rider. It's at the bottom of the page in the column 'Min target (mpd)'.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Tim Hall on May 31, 2015, 09:50:07 am
In case you missed it, the OYTT chart page (http://gicentre.org/oytt/) always shows the required daily average figure for each rider. It's at the bottom of the page in the column 'Min target (mpd)'.
Yes I had missed it.  Thanks for poiting it out. (and thanks for all the visualisation goodness).
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Martin on May 31, 2015, 10:03:48 am
excellent job thanks jo  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: andyoxon on May 31, 2015, 11:15:40 am
So atm for the 2015 attempt Steve requires ~37mls or 60km/day more than Kurt's current projected min 207mls/day ~20mls/day more than TG's min of 225mls/day at this stage...
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: recumbentim on June 01, 2015, 04:51:24 pm
Thanks Jo and the most astounding thing to me is Kurt's average 17.6 overall . I know he uses a recumbent and must do flat loops but ??
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: LMT on June 01, 2015, 07:06:59 pm
Steve and his team need to make the distinction between the 'Tommy Godwin' record and the Ham'r. Once you do that everything becomes clearer and then you can start on a strategy.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: jsabine on June 01, 2015, 07:34:27 pm
The problem with that is that when Steve does achieve the first HAMR 365 day record, although it'll be magnificent in its own right it'll be overshadowed if he hasn't passed 75k miles, and doubly so if Kurt is (a) significantly ahead and/or (b) on course to surpass 75k miles himself.

The thing that staggers me is that no matter how great the achievements of all HAMR participants so far, they are still behind the average needed across the year (even if ahead of TG's 1939 progress so far).
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Jacamo on June 02, 2015, 01:40:13 am
Thanks Jo and the most astounding thing to me is Kurt's average 17.6 overall . I know he uses a recumbent and must do flat loops but ??

His moving average has got to be higher than that.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: red marley on June 02, 2015, 06:39:40 am
I calculate the moving average by examining the distance moved every 5 minutes. If there has been more than 100m of movement, the period is counted as "moving" and the distance on the ground is used to calculate the average speed. It is true therefore that for a ride with lots of short stops of less than 5 minutes, the figure would underestimate a moving average figure displayed on the GPS. But the riding style of Kurt and Steve is such that this should be relatively rare.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Jacamo on June 02, 2015, 01:05:53 pm
Looks like calculating in that manner has had somewhat of an effect on the moving averages. According to UMCA ( if they're to be believed) Kurt has an 18.7 moving average, a 1.1mph difference.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: geraldc on June 05, 2015, 05:20:15 pm
All the press is on the hour event this weekend. You'd have thought they could spare a few column inches for the event that lasts 8760 times longer.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: CrazyEnglishTriathlete on June 06, 2015, 08:20:31 am
They do have 8760 times longer to cover it  :facepalm:
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Frank9755 on June 12, 2015, 01:17:21 pm
So, what is Steve's current plan: still to re-start on 1 July?
It's not on his website, or anywhere else obvious.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: notlobgp14 on June 14, 2015, 08:34:40 am
So, what is Steve's current plan: still to re-start on 1 July?
It's not on his website, or anywhere else obvious.

Agree with above, and other posts up thread; there doesn't seem to be any obvious rational behind the current mileages, I'm sure the team and Steve know Exactly what they are doing but it is becoming increasingly frustrating that we don't.

I also can't see how 'low level' information, or whatever the term was, is Bad for the record attempt?  There are a lot of us contributing to, and in effect have 'shares' in Steve's attempt.  That's not to say we need input but a bit of information would be good.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Marmitegeoff on June 14, 2015, 10:54:21 am
I tend to disagree,   I think that Steve and team do have a plan but they are in competition with two others.   It is a competition and Steve gave away an advantage at the start by publishing a plan, so that one of the competitors could copy it. and then ride a few more miles a day than Steve each and every day.   I feel that Steve is much better keeping his powder dry and not publishing plans.   It is enough that the competitors can see what he is doing day by day.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: SoreTween on June 14, 2015, 10:56:20 am
C'mon folks it's not that hard, Steve isn't where he needs to be at this time of year I.E ~98% fitness (He needs 100% in July, boy does he need 100%)

Regardless when he restarts he will follow his plan all be it with a different start point.  Steve spent years developing his plan, he'll follow it.  That means to start now he would need to be able to cover 265 (lower schedule) or 284 (upper) miles per day.  Steve managed 280 once recently, no other ride has reached his June lower target.  It took 19 hours to do those 280 miles leaving 5 hours for end of day food, shower and sleep.  His schedules require he complete the distance in 16-18 hours leaving a more reasonable 6-8 hours per day.  I would guess he'll be targetting the fastest pace on days of a fair wind.  6-8 hours a night is damn hard but much more sustainable than 5 per day.

As Steve's fitness, demonstrated by his speed, matches his schedule then he'll be in a position to restart.  I have my doubts that will be any time soon.  He could probably take a few weeks off the bike and still ramp up to meet the descending requirement in late summer but that's not Steve is it?
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Ningishzidda on June 15, 2015, 12:20:49 pm
I tend to disagree,   I think that Steve and team do have a plan but they are in competition with two others.   It is a competition and Steve gave away an advantage at the start by publishing a plan, so that one of the competitors could copy it. and then ride a few more miles a day than Steve each and every day.   I feel that Steve is much better keeping his powder dry and not publishing plans.   It is enough that the competitors can see what he is doing day by day.

You've been riding round those battlefields again Geoff?

Steve should 'Reset to zero' on 30th June, I reckon. He's back up to some 'target hitting' distances now.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Grandad on June 19, 2015, 04:24:31 pm
From another cycling forum
Quote
Lack of info just could be a reason that donations appear to have dried up.

Is this correct - I hope not
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: mattc on June 19, 2015, 04:46:04 pm
From another cycling forum
Quote
Lack of info just could be a reason that donations appear to have dried up.

Is this correct - I hope not
At this stage, its just a rumour spread by you!

HTH ...
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Delph Cyclist on June 19, 2015, 06:34:20 pm
From another cycling forum
Quote
Lack of info just could be a reason that donations appear to have dried up.

Is this correct - I hope not
At this stage, its just a rumour spread by you!

I know for a fact that there was a recent donation from A Pair of Kirtons, so things are still moving on.  A lot of AUK members are also chipping in every time they enter an event.  I'm sure we would hear something if the coffers were empty
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: hellymedic on June 19, 2015, 06:47:09 pm
Several people donate by regular Direct Debit.
There's no new donation with this but the money still rolls in.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Wowbagger on June 19, 2015, 08:39:16 pm
Indeed. It would be most surprising if new donations were coming in at the same rate that they were 6 months ago. The old donations continue to roll in, I would imagine.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: MikeFromLFE on June 19, 2015, 11:09:27 pm
I went to a talk today at Eroica Brittania on the subject of Walter Greave's record - and quite naturally the subject of Steve's attempt came up.
The speaker (whose name I have mislaid) made a couple of observations that I disagree with but, I think hearing dissenting voices can be interesting:
1) Steve needs to considerably up his mph in order not to get into serious sleep deficit or fall behind on his miles
2) -and this is more interesting - that any record not set January- December will be discredited by history as all previous records have been set that way - thus negating a July restart.

The speaker was fairly certain that Steve would 'fail' in his record attempt. Sod that - he's a hero already in my eyes.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Derek on June 19, 2015, 11:50:08 pm
I actually think its going to be vey hard to break the record in the UK, the weather and road conditions do not help. Steve has already proved that staying safe over the course of a year is difficult, he didn't last 3 months.

Having said that I hope he does it. Having spoken to him briefly a few months ago his determination is certainly there although the challenge is certainly very tough.

The jan to dec record would certainly be the ideal one to go for, but if it has to be July to June then so be it, Steve has to take what oppotunities there are.

Its a tough call but I hope Steve does it over whatever period he chooses.

At the end of the day he cycles more miles in a week than I did last year, although I am trying to put that right this year.

Derek

GO STEVE
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Justin(e) on June 20, 2015, 05:20:45 am
2) -and this is more interesting - that any record not set January- December will be discredited by history as all previous records have been set that way - thus negating a July restart.

There is certainly an aesthetic reassurance about the timing of an event with the calendar.

But if you look at other sports, you can see that there is wriggle room.  Both golf and tennis have grand slams that can be performed in a calendar year.  There is no discredit in holding all four trophies even if it is not in the same year - I grant you there is an element of frisson when it does coincide.

On a lesser note, there is also the category of career grand slam.  So you may be right, but I think that whoever cycles the furtherest in 365 days will get the nod of history whether it is aligned with the western, mayan or Hindu calendar.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: mattc on June 20, 2015, 07:41:01 am
... then there are hat-tricks in cricket. they have to be 3 consecutive deliveries - but of course a bowler only gets 6 balls-per-over.

So you can extend them into your next over. Or innings. Or match ... which might be 2 years later! This is the definition accepted across the sport.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Wowbagger on June 20, 2015, 08:10:19 am
Apparently Merv Hughes took a hat-trick in three different overs, two innings and two days, against the West Indies.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Justin(e) on June 20, 2015, 05:50:46 pm
Or innings. Or match ...

AIUI Yes to Innings.

No to match
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: contango on June 20, 2015, 05:59:30 pm
I went to a talk today at Eroica Brittania on the subject of Walter Greave's record - and quite naturally the subject of Steve's attempt came up.
The speaker (whose name I have mislaid) made a couple of observations that I disagree with but, I think hearing dissenting voices can be interesting:
1) Steve needs to considerably up his mph in order not to get into serious sleep deficit or fall behind on his miles
2) -and this is more interesting - that any record not set January- December will be discredited by history as all previous records have been set that way - thus negating a July restart.

The speaker was fairly certain that Steve would 'fail' in his record attempt. Sod that - he's a hero already in my eyes.

Whatever has been done in history, if you work with 365 consecutive days you have to deal with January and December, and whether they are at the start/end or in the middle makes little difference. If you could choose 365 non-consecutive days there's an obvious advantage to doing stupidly long rides when it's "not too hot, not too cold".

As to whether Steve succeeds or fails in his record attempt nobody can deny that it's a hell of an achievement to do what he's done.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Wowbagger on June 20, 2015, 10:31:36 pm
My current thoughts about the record attempt are dominated by awe and wonder - the two yardsticks for primary school religious teaching.

I would have said that the task ahead for Steve to break the record on his current attempt is just too much. However, Steve thinks he can do it so who am I to argue? Time will tell. Good luck Steve!
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Ningishzidda on June 22, 2015, 09:39:31 am
I went to a talk today at Eroica Brittania on the subject of Walter Greave's record - and quite naturally the subject of Steve's attempt came up.
The speaker (whose name I have mislaid) made a couple of observations that I disagree with but, I think hearing dissenting voices can be interesting:
1) Steve needs to considerably up his mph in order not to get into serious sleep deficit or fall behind on his miles
2) -and this is more interesting - that any record not set January- December will be discredited by history as all previous records have been set that way - thus negating a July restart.

The speaker was fairly certain that Steve would 'fail' in his record attempt. Sod that - he's a hero already in my eyes.

What odds was he offering, or wasn't he prepared to 'put his money where his ( big ) mouth is'?
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Ningishzidda on June 22, 2015, 09:46:23 am
“January” and “December” are simply names on a page in a book.

Steve can attempt the record ‘Summer solstice to Summer solstice’.

His attempt starts today.
 ;) :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Justin(e) on June 22, 2015, 12:56:09 pm
What odds was he offering, or wasn't he prepared to 'put his money where his ( big ) mouth is'?

A secondary market in establishing the odds of success would certainly be interesting.

Whilst my heart is definitely with Steve, I think it highly unlikely that he will hold the HAM'R record at this attempt.  My rationale is that time trials are all about consistency.  And the crash has made smooth milages impossible.  Even now there is a large degree of bumpiness in the daily distances.

At this stage Kurt looks like a really solid bet.  But continuing the cricketing metaphor above, if this was a one day match, the team batting first has the runs on the board and that is a huge advantage.  I reckon you'd have to favour Tommy to come out on top at the end.   
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: TimC on June 22, 2015, 03:59:43 pm
If we've learned nothing else about this venture, it's now obvious just what an incredible achievement Tommy Godwin's 1939 effort really was. The fact that he managed 361 miles on 21 June - which I think is more than any of the current aspirants have achieved on any single day - signifies how intent he was on setting the record beyond any meaningful competition which could be envisaged in those days. Kurt, Steve and Miles are all exceptional - no, beyond exceptional - cyclists, and it's by no means certain that any of them will exceed Tommy's total. Kurt's looking most likely right now, but Steve and Miles' experiences have shown how easily things can be derailed. My admiration for all of them is immense. I just hope that they all achieve enough to feel that they've done their best.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Wobbly on June 22, 2015, 04:43:33 pm
If we've learned nothing else about this venture, it's now obvious just what an incredible achievement Tommy Godwin's 1939 effort really was.

That.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Morrisette on June 23, 2015, 08:45:23 am
If we've learned nothing else about this venture, it's now obvious just what an incredible achievement Tommy Godwin's 1939 effort really was.

That.

+1.

361 miles in ONE day?? We are all sure that Tommy Godwin wasn't an android sent from the future to stop John Connor being born and ensure the machines will take over the world set an actual unbeatable record? (not that I think it is unbeatable...my current thought on the attempt is that Steve can still do it).
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Exit Stage Left on June 23, 2015, 08:59:16 am
Godwin was assisted in his rides by the Raleigh record beating team, who had been at their endeavours for two years, backed by the largest cycle company in the world. The year record included pacing.

Quote
To prove the new hub to the “speedman”, Raleigh-Sturmey Archer engaged Charlies Holland, Bert James and Sid Ferris to undertake a series of long distance rides on Raleigh Record Aces with AR hubs to beat the records then held by derailleur-equipped machines starting in summer 1937. On 3 June Ferris did Edinburgh-London in 20 hours 19 minutes, besting the previous record by 1 ½ hours and 20 July Land’s End to John O’Groats in 2 days 6 hours 33 minutes, beating Opperman’s time by 2 hours 28 minutes and standing for 21 years. When his June Edinburgh-London record was disallowed because of a rule violation by a assistant rider that October, the opportunity was seized to try again that month and Ferris broke the record again despite riding 15 hours of it in the dark and also proving the worth of another new (1936) Sturmey-Archer innovation, the 12 v. dynohub lighting system.

On 19 March 1938 Bert James cut 9 mins. 53 secs. off the 100-mile record on an RRA with AR hub, clocking 3 hours 45 mins and 51 secs. for an average speed of 27 mph. That year Sid Ferris capped his remarkable career breaking the RRA 24-hour record at 465.75 miles from Edinburgh to the South Coast, again using a Record Ace with the AR hub and Dynohub. That year, Charles Holland, riding for Raleigh/Sturmey-Archer, broke the RRA record for Liverpool-Edinburgh in June, clocking 10 hours for the 210 miles, 12 minutes faster than the previous record held by Frank Southall. On 13 October 1938 he dropped 25 minutes off the Land’s End-London record, doing the 287 miles in 13 hours 44 minutes at an average 21 mph despite hours of rain and four punctures en route riding the new Charles Holland Continental model of the RRA (see below) with an AM hub. Another RRA with AR hub record run was Bert James’ London-Portsmouth roundtrip (137 miles) clocked at 8 hours, 33 minutes and 57 seconds despite poor weather and punctures.

http://threespeedhub.com/pre-war-raleigh-record-ace-rra/
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: TimC on June 23, 2015, 09:02:05 am
If we've learned nothing else about this venture, it's now obvious just what an incredible achievement Tommy Godwin's 1939 effort really was.

That.

+1.

361 miles in ONE day?? We are all sure that Tommy Godwin wasn't an android sent from the future to stop John Connor being born and ensure the machines will take over the world set an actual unbeatable record? (not that I think it is unbeatable...my current thought on the attempt is that Steve can still do it).

I hope you'll forgive me if I express some doubt that Steve will beat Tommy's record, at least in the current attempt (Jan-Dec 2015). I believe that his broken ankle - not unreasonably! - has made such a dent in his efforts that it's now unfair to expect him to average the 250+ miles per day he needs to for the rest of the year. Every day he rides less than 250 miles increases the pressure - yesterday was 'just' 132. I think it's time for us to accept that whatever total Steve achieves in 2015, it will probably be less than the 75k Tommy did, but will still have been an amazing effort. If - as was mooted a while back - Steve restarts the challenge then we should, as he will, treat that as an entirely separate endeavour.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Legs on June 23, 2015, 09:40:55 am
+1 to TimC.

It's a tough call to make, because resting up in advance of a Miles-style reboot is going to dent progress towards the 100,000 mile record that Steve may have had an eye on.  He is obviously capable of knocking out 260-280 mile rides now, but they're being wasted if he doesn't count them towards the reboot record.  And, IANASportsScientist, but I don't think that he needs to put in the miles for 'training', either.  One thing's for sure - if/when he starts again (officially), he needs to hit the ground (bad choice of words) running riding.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Fidgetbuzz on June 23, 2015, 10:23:59 am
I have been otherwise committed in the last 2 weeks - and have only just caught up with this thread - but noticed that a few days ago there were posts about the cash position.

I am sure that you will understand that I am not going to be specific about the position , but as far as i am aware since the accident not a single standing order has been cancelled or amended. There are still one off donations from individuals and from audax events coming in and the occasional new standing order, sometimes for an amount that I would describe as very generous.

You would not expect to hear much about the money side if all is looking OK, after all it is the miles that matter not the money.

So here is the best I can do to provide a modicum of comfort  -....     I am sleeping well at night !!
Roger

Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: tonyh on June 23, 2015, 10:26:31 am
 :thumbsup:    Many thanks, FB.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: mcshroom on June 23, 2015, 10:27:15 am
Good to hear :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Arry-R on June 23, 2015, 10:33:38 am


Plus 1   :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Marmitegeoff on June 23, 2015, 11:14:15 am
Many Thanks FB.   I feel sure that if the situation were otherwise then some small hints would start appearing.   Glad you are sleeping well.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Tim Hall on June 23, 2015, 03:23:03 pm
A news letter has flooded in. Not from Mrs Trellis of North Wales but from Steve's team.  Excellent stuff. Keep on keeping us informed.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Vince on June 23, 2015, 05:10:17 pm
Mrs Trellis' URL: http://us9.campaign-archive1.com/?u=f184c841a68a86ce82d222948&id=87cc69a110 (http://us9.campaign-archive1.com/?u=f184c841a68a86ce82d222948&id=87cc69a110)
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Kim on June 23, 2015, 05:16:26 pm
I particularly liked:

Quote
Who are you competing against Tommy Godwin or Kurt Searvogel?
 
Neither. I’m just trying to do as many miles as I can and pass Godwin’s total. I’m not competing against him - as he’s not here - and I’m riding under different conditions.

 :thumbsup:  GO STEVE!
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: simonp on July 05, 2015, 12:21:04 pm
The graph on Jo's website seems to suggest Steve is not yet consistently able to achieve the daily distances needed to get to 75,000 miles in 2015.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: andyoxon on July 05, 2015, 01:42:49 pm
Given that there have been a number of ~205mile rides recently, it could be that Steve has already started a new/concurrent attempt...  Just speculation.

Go Steve!
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: mattc on July 05, 2015, 01:53:17 pm
Given that there have been a number of ~205mile rides recently, it could be that Steve has already started a new/concurrent attempt...  Just speculation.

Go Steve!
Yes, that seems a sound speculation!

IIRC the last target figure to catch-up was over 240miles-a-day? He's a long way off that recently.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: wajcgac on July 05, 2015, 02:01:13 pm
From Steves facebook page -

Quote
Steve's plan is still to try and pass Tommy Godwin's mileage by year end. He realises the 'audacity' of the task, but at this point he's still willing to give it everything he has. He is likely to start running a concurrent (new) record attempt next month, so that he still gives himself a full 12 months to see what he is truly capable of. That's the plan thus far. Regards, Steve's Support Team.

No login required

https://www.facebook.com/stevenabraham2015 (https://www.facebook.com/stevenabraham2015)

Good to see that the concurrent attempt is still in the pipeline.

Go Steve !
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: TimC on July 05, 2015, 03:30:08 pm
Has it been confirmed that the UCMA will accept concurrent attempts by an athlete?

In any case, if Steve is to have a chance of taking the record, he needs to get the big miles in consistently while the weather is good - as he recognised with his high/low schedules. He doesn't have the benefit of good winter weather that Kurt was able to take advantage of, and maintaining the average record pace of 205+mpd in a UK winter is asking a great deal. So, whether the original attempt continues or this becomes a new attempt from some date in the near future, Steve needs to be racking up those 240+mpd efforts while the weather's good and the days are long. It isn't happening, and that worries me.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: simonp on July 05, 2015, 04:29:58 pm
From Steves facebook page -

Quote
Steve's plan is still to try and pass Tommy Godwin's mileage by year end. He realises the 'audacity' of the task, but at this point he's still willing to give it everything he has. He is likely to start running a concurrent (new) record attempt next month, so that he still gives himself a full 12 months to see what he is truly capable of. That's the plan thus far. Regards, Steve's Support Team.

No login required

https://www.facebook.com/stevenabraham2015 (https://www.facebook.com/stevenabraham2015)

Good to see that the concurrent attempt is still in the pipeline.

Go Steve !

Thanks!

Hidden in a comment - took me some time to find it despite being directed there by your post.

Looks like 19 months elapsed if starting again on 1st August.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: wajcgac on July 05, 2015, 05:12:23 pm
Has it been confirmed that the UCMA will accept concurrent attempts by an athlete?

I guess Miles would be a good person to ask about this as he has restarted his attempt but may know if his original attempt is effectively still running as well. I think he may have other things more pressing to attend to though.

So, whether the original attempt continues or this becomes a new attempt from some date in the near future, Steve needs to be racking up those 240+mpd efforts while the weather's good and the days are long. It isn't happening, and that worries me.

I'm hoping that this is because he is still getting up to full fitness, rather than he is not capable of doing so when fully fit. I'm sure this is why he is waiting another month before any potential restart - he needs to be at his peak otherwise his new attempt would be compromised immediately.

Steve looked to be well on target before the incident with the moped rider. He was nearly 2700 miles up on Tommy on the 28th March when it happened and I think he would have increased this for a further 2 months as Tommy didn't really get going till June.

We don't know if Steve could have matched the huge mileage in the summer months without the injury but he had a buffer to work with and I think he would have gained more miles later in the year.

Only after 12 months of Steve cycling fully fit will we know the reality.

However, if he is determined to beat Tommy's record and hold the record of the highest mileage ridden in a year - regardless of UMCA age category he may well find that the bar has been set higher by Kurt.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: TimC on July 06, 2015, 12:31:26 pm
Recent statements by Steve suggest he thinks he can still do it. I think that's probably a bit too optimistic; he's around 8000 miles below the cumulative average mileage and about 5500 miles behind Tommy's curve. With 179 days to go, that means he needs to average around 30 miles a day more than Tommy, or about 250 miles every day for the rest of the year. If he follows Tommy's curve but does that 30 miles a day more, he'd need to be doing something well over 300 miles a day now. That just doesn't seem likely.

If, on the other hand, Steve restarts the challenge on some date in the near future, he has to either equal Tommy's daily mileage or hope he can significantly beat it through the winter period to allow a more achievable target in the remaining summer months. That seems a lot more do-able - he was about 3000 miles ahead of Tommy when the accident happened. An out-of-the-gate daily figure of 220-230 miles a day from, say, 1 August followed by a winter of 180-200 mpd, then racking up next summer to 220-230 again would see him past the 75k - but, as you say, not necessarily beyond Kurt's total!

It remains fascinating whichever route Steve decides to take, and I continue to wish him all success.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Oakhambike on July 06, 2015, 03:19:59 pm
Agree with previous post though I was thinking that a 1st September re-start more likely than 1st August - but most of all GOOD LUCK Steve.

Wondering about the huge mileages Tommy did  through the Summer of '39 - do we know whether these were the result of time on the bike and not much sleep or due to higher speed? If the latter I wonder if being paced had a big effect for Tommy ?
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Salvatore on July 06, 2015, 05:24:31 pm
Agree with previous post though I was thinking that a 1st September re-start more likely than 1st August - but most of all GOOD LUCK Steve.

Wondering about the huge mileages Tommy did  through the Summer of '39 - do we know whether these were the result of time on the bike and not much sleep or due to higher speed? If the latter I wonder if being paced had a big effect for Tommy ?

Both organised pacing and very long days according to an article in the Western Daily Press on August 10 1939:

The whole article:
(http://i.imgur.com/eyIUfT9.jpg)
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Climberruss on July 06, 2015, 09:23:37 pm
I have been watching this contest/duel between Kurt and Steve with huge interest from the start. Both are exceptional rides ( I have met them both). However, as good as they may be, neither is getting anywhere close to the monstrous daily mileages that Tommy put in. Given the era that this attempt happened and the non-existance of doping rules at the time, is it just possible that dear old Tommy was dropping a snifter of Pot Belge (or something similar) every day?  Just a thought.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: mrcharly-YHT on July 07, 2015, 08:42:51 am
Highly unlikely.

Tommy was paced in a peloton.

Actually, given that relatives of Tommy get to hear what is being said (and have been vocally supportive of Steve), I think you should delete your groundless accusation.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Arry-R on July 07, 2015, 10:20:36 am
Yes a groundless accusation which should be removed with all possible haste
 :facepalm:
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: The French Tandem on July 07, 2015, 11:27:12 am
I do not think that we should crucify Mr Climberruss. Let's put things into their context.  Although doping is recognized now as a form of cheating, no one have accuse Tommy of cheating in any way. It is just that the acceptability of doping in 1939 was not what it is now.  Remember than not so long ago, it was perfectly acceptable to drive a car after drinking alcohol, or to smoke in public venues.

I have read a very old version of the Tour de France rules, probably circa 1910, I can't find out the exact reference, but one of the rules was: "Les produits fortifiants ne seront pas fournis par l'organisateur". The "produits fortifiants" are what we would call dope today, they were not explicitly prohibited, they were just not provided by the organizer!
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Ningishzidda on July 07, 2015, 11:43:46 am
I have been watching this contest/duel between Kurt and Steve with huge interest from the start. Both are exceptional rides ( I have met them both). However, as good as they may be, neither is getting anywhere close to the monstrous daily mileages that Tommy put in. Given the era that this attempt happened and the non-existance of doping rules at the time, is it just possible that dear old Tommy was dropping a snifter of Pot Belge (or something similar) every day?  Just a thought.

I'll defend you on this one Climberruss. You are a brave man to make this suggestion; and I think you could be not far from the truth. Amphetamines were available over the counter until September 1939.

In 1937 - 39, my uncle rode for the RAF out of Cosford, Shrops. They rode 250 miles per day 'just for a day out to Skeggy'.
Another uncle who recalled his elder brother's exploits, told of a day on a bike from Birmingham to Rhyl and back. On the return, my uncle who survived the war told me he was offered a 'little pep-me-up' by one of the RAF riders.

Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: TimC on July 07, 2015, 12:16:14 pm
Reading the various references on here and elsewhere, Godwin's effort was a full-on professional competitive venture with major support including pacemen. It was pretty much the equivalent of Team Sky doing it now! As a professional racing cyclist with over 200 road and TT victories, Tommy was likely no stranger to the various concoctions openly used to fuel pro riders of the time. So, yes, he probably used stuff you can't use now. But that is not to suggest he cheated by the rules that applied at the time.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Mr Larrington on July 07, 2015, 12:35:27 pm
I'll defend you on this one Climberruss. You are a brave man to make this suggestion; and I think you could be not far from the truth. Amphetamines were available over the counter until September 1939.

And after September 1939 they were routinely handed out to combatants on both sides.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Ningishzidda on July 07, 2015, 12:39:37 pm
So the modern day equivalent of Tommy’s approach would be for two or three fast cyclists to pace Steve for fifty mile sections.
Five teams of two riders who go out to a location and ride to another fifty miles away, then have to return home to recuperate for the next day is a jolly grand undertaking of logistics and organisation in its own right.
Which means at least ten fully financed ‘domestiques’ on the road 365 continuous days.
At a salary of £480 per week ( to pluck a number out of the air ), that amounts to £250,000 to support the 10 team members.

Where is a ‘modern day’ attempt organisation going to get that kind of cash? Unless I am ignorantly naïve of Steve’s financial status.  :o
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Ningishzidda on July 07, 2015, 12:40:42 pm
I'll defend you on this one Climberruss. You are a brave man to make this suggestion; and I think you could be not far from the truth. Amphetamines were available over the counter until September 1939.

And after September 1939 they were routinely handed out to combatants on both sides.

Yes. Along with those pills that gave one the droop.  ;)
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Mr Larrington on July 07, 2015, 12:53:09 pm
Surely that was bromide in the Tea?

Quote from: Spike Milligan
I don’t think the bromide had any lasting effect, the only way to stop a BRITISH soldier feeling randy is to load bromide into a 300-pound shell and fire it at him from the waist down.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: mrcharly-YHT on July 07, 2015, 01:33:04 pm
While amphetamines were not illegal to use in Tommy's day, they are viewed very differently now.

I can see this being repeated as "Well he only managed it because of doping". A few repetitions of that and it is taken as 'fact'.

Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: red marley on July 07, 2015, 01:34:37 pm
So the modern day equivalent of Tommy’s approach would be for two or three fast cyclists to pace Steve for fifty mile sections.
Five teams of two riders who go out to a location and ride to another fifty miles away, then have to return home to recuperate for the next day is a jolly grand undertaking of logistics and organisation in its own right.
Which means at least ten fully financed ‘domestiques’ on the road 365 continuous days.
At a salary of £480 per week ( to pluck a number out of the air ), that amounts to £250,000 to support the 10 team members.

Where is a ‘modern day’ attempt organisation going to get that kind of cash? Unless I am ignorantly naïve of Steve’s financial status.  :o

It's worth re-reading the Western Daily Press article in Salvatore's post above (https://yacf.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=90295.msg1887000#msg1887000) that makes it clear that they had stopped pacing Godwin (and Bennett) by August. Godwin's professional support from Raleigh only started in April/May so while significant, the opportunity for professional pacing only lasted for three months or so.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: CrazyEnglishTriathlete on July 07, 2015, 01:54:59 pm
Changing tack slightly and looking at Steve's recent routes I'd have to say that his attempt is looking a bit Washed up.   :facepalm:
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Malmesbury Monk on July 07, 2015, 02:30:23 pm
In the absence of any evidence to suggest that Tommy personally used any substances, regardless of the fact that others at that time might have done, it would be grossly unfair to assume that he must have as well. Tommy isn't here to defend himself and this speculation serves no purpose whatsoever particularly within the context of whether Steve or anyone else can beat Tommy's record.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: TimC on July 07, 2015, 02:31:58 pm
So the modern day equivalent of Tommy’s approach would be for two or three fast cyclists to pace Steve for fifty mile sections.
Five teams of two riders who go out to a location and ride to another fifty miles away, then have to return home to recuperate for the next day is a jolly grand undertaking of logistics and organisation in its own right.
Which means at least ten fully financed ‘domestiques’ on the road 365 continuous days.
At a salary of £480 per week ( to pluck a number out of the air ), that amounts to £250,000 to support the 10 team members.

Where is a ‘modern day’ attempt organisation going to get that kind of cash? Unless I am ignorantly naïve of Steve’s financial status.  :o

It's worth re-reading the Western Daily Press article in Salvatore's post above (https://yacf.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=90295.msg1887000#msg1887000) that makes it clear that they had stopped pacing Godwin (and Bennett) by August. Godwin's professional support from Raleigh only started in April/May so while significant, the opportunity for professional pacing only lasted for three months or so.

I think the point is, Jo, that there are many differences between the two TGs' attempts and that 'our' TG is doing it with rather fewer contemporary advantages than were made available to Tommy, notwithstanding the rather better bikes he's using. IMO, that makes Steve's (and Kurt's) efforts more amazing rather than less!
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Wowbagger on July 07, 2015, 02:48:57 pm
So the modern day equivalent of Tommy’s approach would be for two or three fast cyclists to pace Steve for fifty mile sections.
Five teams of two riders who go out to a location and ride to another fifty miles away, then have to return home to recuperate for the next day is a jolly grand undertaking of logistics and organisation in its own right.
Which means at least ten fully financed ‘domestiques’ on the road 365 continuous days.
At a salary of £480 per week ( to pluck a number out of the air ), that amounts to £250,000 to support the 10 team members.

Where is a ‘modern day’ attempt organisation going to get that kind of cash? Unless I am ignorantly naïve of Steve’s financial status.  :o

It's worth re-reading the Western Daily Press article in Salvatore's post above (https://yacf.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=90295.msg1887000#msg1887000) that makes it clear that they had stopped pacing Godwin (and Bennett) by August. Godwin's professional support from Raleigh only started in April/May so while significant, the opportunity for professional pacing only lasted for three months or so.

But what months they were!

(http://staff.city.ac.uk/~jwo/oytt/images/oyttYearWeek1.png)
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Climberruss on July 07, 2015, 03:00:15 pm
While amphetamines were not illegal to use in Tommy's day, they are viewed very differently now.

I can see this being repeated as "Well he only managed it because of doping". A few repetitions of that and it is taken as 'fact'.

Nobody is saying this mrcharly. Only you. Don't put words into my mouth.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Ningishzidda on July 07, 2015, 03:11:10 pm
While amphetamines were not illegal to use in Tommy's day, they are viewed very differently now.

I can see this being repeated as "Well he only managed it because of doping". A few repetitions of that and it is taken as 'fact'.

Nobody is saying this mrcharly. Only you. Don't put words into my mouth.

"He only managed it with 'pep-me-up-pills' legally available at the time."

Similar to what I did to get my dissertation finished....  ;)
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Climberruss on July 07, 2015, 03:12:45 pm
First time I've come back to this thread since my post.

With regard to Arry-R and mrcharly, I am not making accusations, merely raising a discussion point. Back then doping was almost universal with the chief substances being Pot Belge and Amphetamines. Today it is generally accepted but still taboo to talk about the fact that Sean Kelly and Eddy Merckx were doping and yet it's fine to have a go (me included) at a certain Texan.

With regard to Malmesbury Monk -  "it would be grossly unfair to assume that he must have as well." - I am not assuming, merely raising a discussion point.

From Salvatores post - "that makes it clear that they had stopped pacing Godwin (and Bennett) by August." - this may be far more interesting as these are precisely the months when Tommy put in his biggest rides. Post August, his daily mileage dropped off quite noticably.

At least we know two things..Steve and Kurt and Miles are doing this thing fairly and clean.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: mrcharly-YHT on July 07, 2015, 03:47:57 pm
You started suggesting he was taking drugs.

You have no evidence and it is not possible for anyone to disprove it.

I regard this as a shoddy accusation. Own your own words.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Arry-R on July 07, 2015, 04:28:26 pm
Here here!
 :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: LMT on July 07, 2015, 05:44:28 pm
You started suggesting he was taking drugs.

You have no evidence and it is not possible for anyone to disprove it.

I regard this as a shoddy accusation. Own your own words.

In the context of that era and the way that Russ put his point across I'd say it was about fair - certainly not shoddy.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: mattc on July 07, 2015, 06:18:25 pm
First time I've come back to this thread since my post.

With regard to Arry-R and mrcharly, I am not making accusations, merely raising a discussion point. Back then doping was almost universal with the chief substances being Pot Belge and Amphetamines. Today it is generally accepted but still taboo to talk about the fact that Sean Kelly and Eddy Merckx were doping and yet it's fine to have a go (me included) at a certain Texan.
I agree.

And because noone frowned on drug use at the time,  I see it as completely fair.

There are plenty of advantages available to the riders in the 2 eras - its all part of the intrigue. :)
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Wobbly on July 07, 2015, 06:21:49 pm
Surely that was bromide in the Tea?

Quote from: Spike Milligan
I don’t think the bromide had any lasting effect, the only way to stop a BRITISH soldier feeling randy is to load bromide into a 300-pound shell and fire it at him from the waist down.


Excellent Milligan quote Mr Larrington  :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: TimC on July 07, 2015, 07:54:58 pm
You started suggesting he was taking drugs.

You have no evidence and it is not possible for anyone to disprove it.

I regard this as a shoddy accusation. Own your own words.

Why shoddy? I would have thought that it would be perfectly reasonable to assume that Tommy used the stimulants openly and commonly used in pro cycling at the time. He was a pro cyclist, after all. Thae fact that they are now illegal is irrelevant. It would be more surprising if he did not use them.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: hillbilly on July 07, 2015, 08:04:28 pm
Anyway....

Not that it matters one iota, but my current view is that Steve is not going to get exceed Tommy's total in 2015.  Too big an ask, through no fault of his own (pesky moped drunkards etc etc).  I look forward to his future record attempt, which his currently sporadic longer mileage days will help prepare him for.  (My interest has waned as Steve's chances of pulling this out of the bag have become more and more unrealistic).

Kurt looks likely to exceed Tommy's total if he stays injury free.  He's consistent, I'll give him that.  Simple plan, well executed.

Miles is an enigma.  I have no idea what he will end up doing.  Which makes him jolly interesting.  But if I'm honest I'm not really following him closely because of the separation in start time between him and Steve/Kurt.

Tommy Godwin looks down on events smug in the knowledge that the mark he set is f**king hard to beat.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: mzjo on July 07, 2015, 09:13:43 pm
re OYTT and the fact that T Godwin was a senior or (now) elite racer surely our current competitors should be classed as vets and have a standard distance for the record. I think Kurt may well be ahead on standard by a good bit - but anyone like to suggest what the standard distances would be, if it really were a One Year Time Trial?

Of course they might all (including Mr Godwin) be disqualified for taking pace  :D
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Wowbagger on July 07, 2015, 09:30:04 pm
All this discussion indicates that we are not comparing like with like. Steve has demonstrated, as has Kurt, that as solo riders they can keep pace with Tommy's record - up to the point at which he was paced by pros. His effort clearly tailed off after the end of October, which (possibly) means that he felt he had done enough, or that wartime blackout conditions made riding huge daily distances harder. Is there any record anywhere which indicates which it was?
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: red marley on July 07, 2015, 10:27:03 pm
I would have thought that amphetamines would be pretty useless for an event like this. They might allow you to do a few all-nighters, or give a temporary boost, but there's always payback later. Riding day in, day out, the payback would far outweigh the benefit.

As the man Obree says, TTing is not about going fast, it's about not going slow.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: TimC on July 07, 2015, 11:27:32 pm
All this discussion indicates that we are not comparing like with like. Steve has demonstrated, as has Kurt, that as solo riders they can keep pace with Tommy's record - up to the point at which he was paced by pros. His effort clearly tailed off after the end of October, which (possibly) means that he felt he had done enough, or that wartime blackout conditions made riding huge daily distances harder. Is there any record anywhere which indicates which it was?
I think a combination of the withdrawal of the pacemen/cars, the lack of daylight and the blackout and the weather (though I think the autumn of '39 was fairly benign, was it not?) all quite reasonably conspired to bring the daily miles down from the dizzy heights of June/July.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Exit Stage Left on July 07, 2015, 11:31:41 pm
We can never know if Godwin took speed. It's probable that he would have encountered it in transport cafes in the form of Benzedrine, as lorry drivers used it to complete their journeys. Artists used it too.

Quote
Of course, bennies had a tendency to ruin the body of the person using them. Auden's death from heart failure at age 66 was, to a considerable extent, a result of his decades of practicing, with the connivance of his doctors, "the chemical life.
http://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2012/04/the-lost-world-of-benzedrine/255904/
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Wowbagger on July 08, 2015, 10:29:28 pm
I have to say that, given that Steve is ratcheting up some prodigious distances at the moment, it would seem like a good time to launch a concurrent attempt.

I have been hunting around for the UMCA rules on such things, but have been unable to find them. Anyones google-fu better than mine?
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: CrazyEnglishTriathlete on July 08, 2015, 10:35:30 pm
I'm not sure I'm worried about the record.  If Steve keeps doing a little over 200 miles a day average he will clock up between 65,000 and 75,000 miles in a year which is a mindblowing achievement, more than most on this forum will achieve in their lifetime, and more than anyone else apart from Tommy Godwin has achieved before.  I will keep watching his progress in awe. 
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Wowbagger on July 08, 2015, 10:40:22 pm
But it's in order to break the record that Steve started this crazy thing. I'm assuming that is what he still wants to do.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: red marley on July 08, 2015, 10:51:37 pm
200 miles average per day for the remains of the year would give him about 66,000. To reach 75,000 he now has to do 250 miles per day. There's quite a difference in effort and organisation required between those two, especially as he approaches winter. In audax money it's the difference between doing a slightly over distance 300 or a 400 ~every day for six months~.

It also seems likely that Kurt will exceed Tommy's total - at the rate he is riding probably by a couple of thousand miles. That would most likely put Steve about "third" behind Kurt and Tommy, or possibly "fourth" behind Bennett's total of 65,127 miles.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: CrazyEnglishTriathlete on July 08, 2015, 11:09:56 pm
But it's in order to break the record that Steve started this crazy thing. I'm assuming that is what he still wants to do.

Steve has always struck me as a level headed guy.  On last year's Brimstone, when I was suffering from the early stages of a Campylobacter infection and somewhat concerned that I might not make the end of the lane from the control let alone the nearest station or heaven forbid, the finish, his advice was "you've got to cycle 20 miles to get to somewhere where you can bail - by then you will probably complete the ride."   One of the best pieces of advice, because he was dead right - but only someone utterly laid back about things could take on the event the way he does.  I think he will ride as well as he can and if he makes the record all well and good.  If he doesn't, I would be surprised if he carries on to December 2016 taking the 100,000 mile record, a one year record and two year record into the bargain. 

I'm just saying...  There's no secret intelligence to this - I admire Steve for the way that he is totally unaffected by mishaps.

PS -I got round the Brimstone thanks to Steve's level headed advice.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Martin on July 09, 2015, 11:20:28 am
I would be surprised if he carries on to December 2016 taking the 100,000 mile record, a one year record and two year record into the bargain. 

That's fine if there are funds available for him to do this
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Wowbagger on July 09, 2015, 11:29:20 am
Steve is a very level-headed guy. Of all the people I have ridden with, I think he is the most effective at cutting the crap, analysing what needs to be done and getting on with it. That is what leads to my puzzlement at the past month or so. His recent pattern of 250ish followed by 200 days would be absolutely what was needed if he hadn't had the loss of all those miles in April and May, but aren't enough for getting past Tommy in 2015 given what happened. That is why it seems to me that a concurrent attempt* starting about now would give him a big boost by the time the weather starts to get bad (late October say) and by then his asking rate for the rest of the year to July/Aug 2016 would probably be something below 200 mpd.

OK, by then Kurt, if he stays accident- and injury-free, will probably have notched up about 78000, but I feel very confident that Steve can beat that, based on his first 4 months of the year, provided he too remains accident- and injury-free.

*It could be that the purist in him still wants his record to run 1st Jan to 31st December, or 30th, as it will be next year for 365 days, irrespective of what the UMCA rules say.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: SoreTween on July 09, 2015, 01:13:26 pm
That is what leads to my puzzlement at the past month or so. His recent pattern of 250ish followed by 200 days would be absolutely what was needed if he hadn't had the loss of all those miles in April and May, but aren't enough for getting past Tommy in 2015 given what happened.
My rampant speculation on the 30th (https://yacf.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=91645.msg1883996#msg1883996) still feels right to me.  He's increased his average slightly since that post so is on target to have the 15k miles done by the end of this month.  His intention to do a restart has been confirmed recently, if it is going to be at the start of August it'll be lodged with the UMCA on Friday or Monday assuming it can't be done on Saturday (exactly 21 days from the 1st Aug).  It's all still very speculative but I can see no reason other than the 100,000 record for the current activity.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Kim on July 09, 2015, 02:05:48 pm
Maybe he's just not happy with the state of his ankle, and is waiting for it to improve?
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Ben T on July 09, 2015, 02:18:07 pm
He may have already restarted for all we know. After all I would have thought it would be better to keep the actual date he does a restart on a "need-to-know" basis.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Wowbagger on July 09, 2015, 02:28:50 pm
Maybe he's just not happy with the state of his ankle, and is waiting for it to improve?

That has also occurred to me.

He may have already restarted for all we know. After all I would have thought it would be better to keep the actual date he does a restart on a "need-to-know" basis.

I thought it had to be published, but again, I can't find the rules.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Exit Stage Left on July 09, 2015, 02:41:54 pm
I suppose Steve is following a structured training regime for the 24 hours at the end of next week.
It will be interesting to see what effect the workload of the record attempt has had on his speed.

Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: simonp on July 09, 2015, 06:09:55 pm
I suppose Steve is following a structured training regime for the 24 hours at the end of next week.
It will be interesting to see what effect the workload of the record attempt has had on his speed.

As am I. I think he will be much faster.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: redfalo on July 10, 2015, 10:06:05 pm
I would have thought that amphetamines would be pretty useless for an event like this. They might allow you to do a few all-nighters, or give a temporary boost, but there's always payback later. Riding day in, day out, the payback would far outweigh the benefit.

As the man Obree says, TTing is not about going fast, it's about not going slow.
+1
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: mattc on July 11, 2015, 12:14:09 pm
That is what leads to my puzzlement at the past month or so. His recent pattern of 250ish followed by 200 days would be absolutely what was needed if he hadn't had the loss of all those miles in April and May, but aren't enough for getting past Tommy in 2015 given what happened.
My rampant speculation on the 30th (https://yacf.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=91645.msg1883996#msg1883996) still feels right to me.  He's increased his average slightly since that post so is on target to have the 15k miles done by the end of this month.  His intention to do a restart has been confirmed recently, if it is going to be at the start of August it'll be lodged with the UMCA on Friday or Monday assuming it can't be done on Saturday (exactly 21 days from the 1st Aug).  It's all still very speculative but I can see no reason other than the 100,000 record for the current activity.
That sounds pretty reasonable.
Has anyone done the sums - is the last month on a schedule that will get him the 100k record?
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: DaveE128 on July 13, 2015, 11:05:41 am
My optimism for the attempt over this calendar year is rapidly turning to pessimism :( I was wondering whether Steve might continue ramping up the rate of mileage but it looks increasingly out of reach to me now :( Hope I'm wrong. Looking forward to hearing an announcement on the restart.  :thumbsup:

Edit: looking at http://oneyeartimetrial.org.uk/calendar#year=2015&month=7&day=1&view=month (http://oneyeartimetrial.org.uk/calendar#year=2015&month=7&day=1&view=month) My guess is that the restart will be the start of August.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Wobbly John on July 13, 2015, 12:19:05 pm
As posted upthread, Teethgrinder's team suggested, on Steve's Facebook profile, that an August re-start is a probability.

Quote
Steve's plan is still to try and pass Tommy Godwin's mileage by year end. He realises the 'audacity' of the task, but at this point he's still willing to give it everything he has. He is likely to start running a concurrent (new) record attempt next month, so that he still gives himself a full 12 months to see what he is truly capable of. That's the plan thus far. Regards, Steve's Support Team.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: red marley on July 13, 2015, 12:29:27 pm
Putting aside the restart bit, I still have difficulty in seeing how

Quote
Steve's plan is still to try and pass Tommy Godwin's mileage by year end.

is compatible with the mileage he is currently putting in. He needs to be doing an average of over 250 mpd, which, if he's not doing in July, will find even tougher in December.

I so want to be wrong in this, but I'm inclined to agree with DaveE128.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: tonyh on July 13, 2015, 12:37:09 pm
Watching with great interest, whatever happens.

And hoping Steve feels "OK+" more often than anything else.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: andyoxon on July 13, 2015, 12:43:52 pm
Putting aside the restart bit, I still have difficulty in seeing how

Quote
Steve's plan is still to try and pass Tommy Godwin's mileage by year end.

is compatible with the mileage he is currently putting in. He needs to be doing an average of over 250 mpd, which, if he's not doing in July, will find even tougher in December.

I so want to be wrong in this, but I'm inclined to agree with DaveE128.

To my mind, while the door on the current Jan - Dec 2015 attempt is starting to close now, Steve can see that the door is at least still open - so there is some hope.  As has been said Steve is putting in amazing daily distances, but below the now required mpd...  I guess we do now await the new/concurrent start.

Go Steve!
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Ningishzidda on July 13, 2015, 12:52:06 pm
What do the rules say about the riders continuing to ride daily until a 365 day total beats all previous values?

A kinda 'retrospective rolling total'.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: SoreTween on July 13, 2015, 01:58:11 pm
No rule specifically against it (http://ultracycling.com/sections/records/max-mileage.php) but each days attempt would incur a $300 fee.  Daily seems infeasible but I guess someone with deep enough sponsors pockets could lodge one weekly.  UMCA will need a much wider spreadsheet.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Wobbly John on July 13, 2015, 07:38:13 pm
I've just ridden and chatted with Teethgrinder for a mile or so, and it sounds as if he still thinks the record is possible.  :thumbsup:

See the 13th July thread (https://yacf.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=91877.msg1890175#msg1890175) for a bit more info.  ;)
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Tim Hall on July 14, 2015, 01:00:44 pm
Email just in from Teethgrinder HQ:

Quote
Steve is now aiming to commence a second (concurrent) record attempt, as he continues to chase down Tommy
Godwin's one year mileage total this year.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: DaveE128 on July 14, 2015, 01:06:00 pm
Email suggests August restart but doesn't say when in August.

Good to hear Steve's reasoning on why he thinks he can still do it this year. He makes some good points. Hope he's right! :)
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: hellymedic on July 14, 2015, 01:06:17 pm
Commencing August.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: jochta on July 14, 2015, 01:28:03 pm
A concurrent attempt makes sense, must be tough picking the right time to start it. I hope winter 2015/16 is kind to Steve. Nov/Dec can be worse than Jan/Feb. I remember a very snowy Dec even in the south a few years ago.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: RichForrest on July 14, 2015, 01:34:25 pm
I hope winter 2015/16 is kind to Steve. Nov/Dec can be worse than Jan/Feb. I remember a very snowy Dec even in the south a few years ago.

I'm sure the local group of his team could clear a 4' wide strip around the MK bowl without much trouble  ;D
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: TimC on July 14, 2015, 02:09:04 pm
Steve's email is good news for those of us beginning to doubt the viability of the current attempt. There's obviously no point in closing the door on that, but starting a new attempt in August after a few weeks' recovery (sleep!) is a sensible plan. Good luck, Steve!
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: mrcharly-YHT on July 14, 2015, 02:20:01 pm
Steve's statement says finances are tight.

Who is the keeper of the wallet and how do we contact them?
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: TimC on July 14, 2015, 02:26:23 pm
Steve's statement says finances are tight.

Who is the keeper of the wallet and how do we contact them?
Fidgetbuzz of this parish. See the One Year Time Trial website for details of how to donate. I think the details are in a sticky in this forum.

Edit. Donate here (http://oneyeartimetrial.org.uk/donate)

Further edit to give the right name of the keeper of the OYTT purse!
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: LittleWheelsandBig on July 14, 2015, 02:32:23 pm
Actually fidgetbuzz.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: TimC on July 14, 2015, 02:35:40 pm
Actually fidgetbuzz.
Doh! Edited. Thanks, LWaB.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Climberruss on July 14, 2015, 03:42:45 pm
Should the weather get really bad in the winter, is there anything to stop Steve heading south onto mainland Europe for a few weeks? (Finance excepted)?
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Fidgetbuzz on July 14, 2015, 03:49:06 pm
Steady. Finances. I am currently on an obscure Greek island aiming to get back to mainland tomorrow and fly home Friday
.before anyone does anything please give me time to talk to team and then if needed come back to the forum. Your support so far has been superlative.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: mattc on July 14, 2015, 04:04:05 pm
I am currently on an obscure Greek island
*** FREEZE THE ACCOUNT ***

FIDGETBUZZ IS ABOUT TO BUY A GREEK ISLAND!!!

Don't do it Rog - I know everything is dirt cheap over there, but you'll regret it :(
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: TimC on July 14, 2015, 04:08:44 pm
Ooh, I dunno - TG could spend the next year riding round his own Greek island. That'd sort any weather issues!
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Wowbagger on July 14, 2015, 08:32:04 pm
Do you think they want another major sporting superstar after the Olympics blew such a hole in their already fragile finances?  :P
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: redfalo on July 14, 2015, 09:56:39 pm
Steve's email really made me cringe. Reads to me like he is trying to push himself too far at the moment. But he and his team surely know better....
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: andrew531 on July 14, 2015, 11:30:26 pm
I enjoyed Steve's newsletter. It's good to have a reasoned view every few weeks. I hope the ankle settles down. Steve's not a quitter and I wish him well.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Wobbly on July 15, 2015, 12:13:03 am
Did only a select few receive the newsletter?
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Wobbly John on July 15, 2015, 12:23:02 am
It's here (http://us9.campaign-archive1.com/?u=f184c841a68a86ce82d222948&id=994dfeeb2c) if you haven't seen it yet.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Wobbly on July 15, 2015, 12:30:00 am
Ta
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Morrisette on July 15, 2015, 09:48:40 am
Sounds like there is a plan! The mental stamina required to restart the attempt at this stage can only be imagined - to set off on another 365 days....wow!!!

I wonder if the incessant 'breeze' in east Anglia could account for some of the slower mph average? I was surprised that Steve was heading this way so often as it has been very windy for summer so far and in the fens it's usually a headwind 75% of the time! On top of that the weather forecast has been 'differently accurate' recently especially wrt wind direction (example: this morning BBC weather claimed a south-easterly, which was news to me as I rode north-west directly into the wind).

Contrary to logic I think the fen wind often dies down in October. Might be useful!!

Here's hoping that the winter is a warm one!!
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Pale Rider on July 15, 2015, 01:08:29 pm
I like the content of Steve's email update.

Anything he says about mileage is unrealistic and barely understandable to the likes of me.

But in his terms, I think he is being realistic and has settled on an achievable plan.

It would be unwise for him to say a lot more.

In the past, I think Kurt has benefited from knowing Steve's tactics.

The email will have given Kurt something to think about, and hopefully, a little uncertainty.

If he breaks the record by, as seems likely, a thousand or two miles, he must now be thinking that won't be enough for him to hold it for very long.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Wobbly John on July 15, 2015, 02:02:48 pm
I wonder if the incessant 'breeze' in east Anglia could account for some of the slower mph average?

When I've seen him recently, I've been suprised at how steady Teethgrinder's pace has been - it's obvious that it's either the injury or the relentless mileage that is slowing him. I've barely ridden a bike this year, and I've been able to put the camera away, mount the bike and am able to catch him in half a mile or so...

...but then Steve has been well into his second century of the day.  ::-)
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: danridesbikes on July 16, 2015, 07:27:03 am
Quote
In the past, I think Kurt has benefited from knowing Steve's tactics.

the tactics of knowing the average he has to put out to beat an already existing record,

or the ride more in summer than winter tactic

hardly tactics imho, just common sense
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: TimC on July 16, 2015, 08:49:01 am
Yes, I don't get that comment either! This isn't a direct competition where each participant needs to keep their cards close to their chest. Kurt and Steve are both trying to beat Tommy's one-year record (and the 100,000 mile record in Steve's case). They're doing it in very different environments with different kinds of support and methodology. Even though Kurt has admitted that he kept an eye on Steve's mileage in the early days (Kurt is, after all, a racer), that became irrelevant well before the accident as it became obvious that the more benign conditions Kurt enjoyed would mean a quite different strategy to achieve the miles. There are no secrets, and no need for any.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Wobbly John on July 16, 2015, 09:10:32 am
Going a bit furthur/faster than 'the other guy' is always an incentive though.

Steve is certainly consious of what Kurt is doing - last time we talked, Teethgrinder told me he though Kurt should have got more early mileage in the bank, while he had the opportunity in Florida.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Wowbagger on July 16, 2015, 09:38:34 am
Florida has its own drawbacks though, like four times the population of Wisconsin in roughly the same area. Kurt definitely suffered from too many bloody cars at times, like when he was being knocked off.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: toontra on July 16, 2015, 09:41:20 am
Teethgrinder told me he though Kurt should have got more early mileage in the bank, while he had the opportunity in Florida.

I think it's understandable that Kurt wouldn't start out full guns blazing if he's embarking on a totally unknown challenge, irrespective of the climate, terrain, etc.  It makes complete sense to stay within his comfort threshold for the first few months to see how the body is coping.

The advantage he has, and has had from the start, is his higher moving speed.  This gives him the scope to radically increase daily mileages as and when he deems it prudent or necessary, and his history of RAAM riding gives him the experience of doing this.

I wouldn't be at all surprised if he starts chucking in some monster days now he is over half way (see Tuesday).  He has a few hours each day to play with and still get enough sleep and recovery.  At no point in the challenge has Steve had that option.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Exit Stage Left on July 16, 2015, 10:05:57 am
Kurt is also part of a scientific training culture. The interesting part of this endeavour is what effect the continued effort has on the blood, haemocrit levels especially.

Kurt has more time to recover, as he's largely treating it as a 12 hours a day exercise. That also gives him the option of transferring by vehicle to avoid headwinds, to delay starts and to stop when conditions are very bad.

Kurt's access to a motor-home, and the constant support of Alicia is the obvious approach to most observers. It's what you see quite regularly on the End to End route. It would be unusual not to see a motor-home parked up at lunchtime in one of the A6 lay-bys between Preston and Levens at this time of year, and that's for riders doing perhaps 200km per day.

A possible outcome is that Kurt takes the record, and a surge of patriotism flushes out another challenger, who adopts Kurt's approach as a baseline.

Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Pale Rider on July 16, 2015, 10:35:03 am
Yes, I don't get that comment either! This isn't a direct competition .

It is nothing other than a direct competition.

Only one person can hold the record, and we have two riders who appear capable of getting it.

Steve beating Tommy's record may mean something to the tiny audax community, but it will mean very little elsewhere if
Kurt rides further.

I see Kurt put in his longest ride to date after Steve's email was released.

Seems likely to me those two things are connected.

Kurt wants the record.

As of two days ago, all he had to realistically do is beat it.

He now needs to set a mark that Steve cannot beat in his second attempt.

The two riders are clearly in competition.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: andyoxon on July 16, 2015, 10:43:36 am
In Kurt's Day 158 fb video he refers to other 'candidates', but also 'competitors'...
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: toontra on July 16, 2015, 11:55:29 am
I don't think there's any doubt that they see each other as competitors, but that doesn't necessarily mean that they are adjusting their efforts to match, or that there is much, if any, advantage in keeping plans secret.  Let's face it, they're not going to stay secret for long.

I see Kurt put in his longest ride to date after Steve's email was released.

I think that was more to do with a massive tailwind.  I'd be very surprised if he'd even read Steve's statement by then.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: mattc on July 16, 2015, 12:29:09 pm
On Jan 1st Steve can be the new record holder, even by doing less miles-per-day than Kurt.

So not really a DIRECT competition, is it?

( In fact I think he will be the new age-group record-holder - "a winner" ?!? )

I guess what I am saying is that record-breaking is different to other contests - similar to a race, yet very different.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: TimC on July 16, 2015, 04:20:42 pm
Absolutely, Matt. Both riders are likely to finish the year holding age-group records under UCMA rules - there being no overall record for the distance ridden in a calendar year, as Guinness refused to recognise it. Their efforts are contemporaneous (at least for Steve's original attempt) but different in style and strategy. We (and they) won't know how they're doing relative to each other until pretty close to the end of the year because of the different weather and road conditions they have to deal with. Steve is still adamant that he'll be able to put in the big, Tommy-matching days in come August; Kurt's strategy doesn't need that. It's a competition in that the target for both is Tommy's 75k, but it's not a race. And with Steve starting a new, concurrent, attempt in August, no-one will really know how he's doing until sometime in late spring/early summer 2016.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Ningishzidda on July 17, 2015, 07:10:17 am
Steve’s and Kurt’s mileages are not ‘unrealistic’, considering the muscle volume both men possess. That has been proved.
What IS mindblowing though is the small amount of R&R the two get.

To avoid fatigue, they must have four or five times the available muscle volume of ‘the likes of me’.

In this game, ultimate power takes a back stage position to sheer numbers of available muscle fibre bundles. Having said this, recruiting muscle fibres is a result of hard work, so they MUST be powerful in short distance events.

As David. G. Wilson found, power and endurance work hand-in-hand.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: danridesbikes on July 17, 2015, 09:33:01 am
Quote
( In fact I think he will be the new age-group record-holder - "a winner" ?!? )

the age group thing is just a sideline, i doubt either of them cares for the age group record,

what they both want and what it is about, is the out and out record,

 
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Climberruss on July 17, 2015, 11:20:11 am
Florida has its own drawbacks though, like four times the population of Wisconsin in roughly the same area. Kurt definitely suffered from too many bloody cars at times, like when he was being knocked off.

If you watched one of his Fb videos a few weeks ago, it would be fair to say he hasn't helped himself on this one. In the video, he did a U'y in front of an oncoming car without so much as a look over his shoulder.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: mrcharly-YHT on July 17, 2015, 03:42:31 pm
Only one person can hold the record, and we have two riders who appear capable of getting it.

No true.

Both riders are competing for the UMCA record - but UMCA bands the records by age and gender. So Kurt is competing in the over 50 band, Steve is in the 49 and under.

We may regard it as just one record (whoever has ridden the furthest in 365 days), but the official record(s) will be different.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: mattc on July 17, 2015, 04:17:16 pm
Quote
( In fact I think he will be the new age-group record-holder - "a winner" ?!? )

the age group thing is just a sideline, i doubt either of them cares for the age group record,

what they both want and what it is about, is the out and out record,
Well ...
the record books are the record books. They will list Steve AND Kurt.
But I mainly agree that they would both be just as happy if the age-groups were scrapped.

However:
you're still missing the fact that all record holders get a place in history. Jens Voigt WILL be remembered as breaking the Hour Record. (In fact his ride is probably better known than all the others up-until Wiggins. But that's a mere detail ...).

Steve has explicitly stated that his aim is Tommy's figure. Do you know something we don't? :P
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: ramchip on July 21, 2015, 08:28:24 am
Good to hear that Steve is starting a concurrent attempt next month. As a keen follower of those targeting Tommy's record I have to be honest and say I'm a little bit disappointed by the media streams of Steve's attempt. In comparison with Kurt with constant updates and quality videos each week, which by the way give a great insight into Kurt’s challenge and how he is going about it, Steve media efforts seems light years behind. Surely Steve team could produce at least a couple of videos each week and post  updates each week, which would generate more interest and hopefully more support for Steve.

Come on Steve!
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Ningishzidda on July 22, 2015, 08:23:58 am
You'll have to stay disappointed. The money is not infinite and Steve's helpers have day jobs to do while Steve is out riding.

Now if you'd consider funding me £50,000 ( a year's salary + costs ), I'd be Steve's 'Live action' cameraman.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: mattc on July 22, 2015, 08:48:14 am
You'll have to stay disappointed. The money is not infinite and Steve's helpers have day jobs to do while Steve is out riding.

Now if you'd consider funding me £50,000 ( a year's salary + costs ), I'd be Steve's 'Live action' cameraman.
Exactly. Those vids are basically down to 1 full-time (24x7) helper. Look how many contenders have such a person.
Steve would waste a lot of miles making/uploading films, and its just extra hassle.

Also, although I find Kurt/Alicia very likable, I very quickly bored of the videos. Whereas I read the chatter about Steve's attempt most days.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Salvatore on July 22, 2015, 09:10:12 am
Latest from Steve on twitter
Quote
I overcooked it and have to ease right back
Taking it very easy until the restart on 8th August
#hamr #overtrained #easytiger
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: TimC on July 22, 2015, 09:22:46 am
While I understand the defensiveness about Steve's supporters and the practical limits of their time, I think there has been quite a lot of concern that Steve's visible PR has been somewhat infrequent. I've been surprised that the big-name sponsors Steve has haven't put a little more effort into publicising his amazing achievements. And there's some truth in what ramchip says that more publicity would likely raise more money which could help that hard-pressed support team do more - such as hire a nutritionist and/or a coach to give some insight into his current issues.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Ningishzidda on July 22, 2015, 12:52:44 pm
Looking at Jo’s chart on July 20, Steve was on his personal target until the scooter incident.
He had his nutritional needs and coaching needs adequately organised.

Steve’s top priority was/is to get the miles done and load the day’s achievements with UMCA.

A UMCA accepted restart on Aug 8th will, I am sure, get what interest has been lost, well and truly back.

There are plenty of summer days yet to picnic in Marsh Gibbon.  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: ramchip on July 22, 2015, 02:57:34 pm
You'll have to stay disappointed. The money is not infinite and Steve's helpers have day jobs to do while Steve is out riding.

Now if you'd consider funding me £50,000 ( a year's salary + costs ), I'd be Steve's 'Live action' cameraman.

Sorry but you can create cheap quality videos for a fraction of £50,000.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: SoreTween on July 22, 2015, 03:15:03 pm
It doesn't need to be videos, I'm finding Miles regular faceache updates interesting since his reboot.  If he, a clear technophobe, can find a few minutes to let the world know what is occurring couldn't Steve or team?  Back when he was touring it was great to read anything posted by the hosts.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Ningishzidda on July 23, 2015, 07:24:31 am
You'll have to stay disappointed. The money is not infinite and Steve's helpers have day jobs to do while Steve is out riding.

Now if you'd consider funding me £50,000 ( a year's salary + costs ), I'd be Steve's 'Live action' cameraman.

Sorry but you can create cheap quality videos for a fraction of £50,000.

Go on then !!   ;D

Thank you for volunteering.  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: rabbit on July 23, 2015, 07:25:07 am
It doesn't need to be videos, I'm finding Miles regular faceache updates interesting since his reboot.  If he, a clear technophobe, can find a few minutes to let the world know what is occurring couldn't Steve or team?  Back when he was touring it was great to read anything posted by the hosts.

I agree

I can't belive how little coverage the commercial sponsors are getting either
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Ningishzidda on July 23, 2015, 07:29:06 am
Considering I can count the spectator attendance on one hand, the sponsors must be relying on magazine adverts when Steve has finished.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: LittleWheelsandBig on July 23, 2015, 07:38:04 am
That is traditionally what occurs with this sort of thing.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Exit Stage Left on July 23, 2015, 09:48:33 am
There is a film to be made about the record attempt. I hung back from doing much until it became clear what the media interest was. Immediately prior to the moped incident there was a Daily Mirror article with accompanying film. After the incident there wasn't much to film until the 24, which I usually marshal at, and sometimes film.

Steve is just one subject from a number at the 24. If he'd been going well I'd have filmed him more.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: ramchip on July 23, 2015, 01:08:29 pm
You'll have to stay disappointed. The money is not infinite and Steve's helpers have day jobs to do while Steve is out riding.

Now if you'd consider funding me £50,000 ( a year's salary + costs ), I'd be Steve's 'Live action' cameraman.

Sorry but you can create cheap quality videos for a fraction of £50,000.


Go on then !!   ;D

Thank you for volunteering.  :thumbsup:


If I lived in the UK then I would have no hesitation in helping in whatever way I could. I'm not knocking anybody just stating a clear fact that the media streams are to say the least poor. Just take a look at what a great job Alicia is doing in regards  to Kurt's challenge, with just a few minutes each day with either a phone or a cam.  If Steve is going to succeed then every other aspect of the challenge has to be given as much effort as Steve puts in to grinding out the miles.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Ningishzidda on July 23, 2015, 01:18:06 pm
You'll have to stay disappointed. The money is not infinite and Steve's helpers have day jobs to do while Steve is out riding.

Now if you'd consider funding me £50,000 ( a year's salary + costs ), I'd be Steve's 'Live action' cameraman.

Sorry but you can create cheap quality videos for a fraction of £50,000.


Go on then !!   ;D

Thank you for volunteering.  :thumbsup:


If I lived in the UK then I would have no hesitation in helping in whatever way I could. I'm not knocking anybody just stating a clear fact that the media streams are to say the least poor. Just take a look at what a great job Alicia is doing in regards  to Kurt's challenge, with just a few minutes each day with either a phone or a cam.  If Steve is going to succeed then every other aspect of the challenge has to be given as much effort as Steve puts in to grinding out the miles.

So you won't be at the picnic in Marsh Gibbon.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: TimC on July 23, 2015, 01:28:15 pm
Ning, I think your sarcasm and dismissive attitude to ramchip's comments are misplaced. He's not the first to have noted that Steve's PR isn't what it might be, and I'm sure he won't be the last unless things improve. Of course he doesn't need a £50k pa full-time cameraman, but he could do with a little bit more accessible coverage.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: ramchip on July 23, 2015, 01:31:42 pm
You'll have to stay disappointed. The money is not infinite and Steve's helpers have day jobs to do while Steve is out riding.

Now if you'd consider funding me £50,000 ( a year's salary + costs ), I'd be Steve's 'Live action' cameraman.

Sorry but you can create cheap quality videos for a fraction of £50,000.


Go on then !!   ;D

Thank you for volunteering.  :thumbsup:


If I lived in the UK then I would have no hesitation in helping in whatever way I could. I'm not knocking anybody just stating a clear fact that the media streams are to say the least poor. Just take a look at what a great job Alicia is doing in regards  to Kurt's challenge, with just a few minutes each day with either a phone or a cam.  If Steve is going to succeed then every other aspect of the challenge has to be given as much effort as Steve puts in to grinding out the miles.

So you won't be at the picnic in Marsh Gibbon.

Sigh! No need for that all all. Don't worry I will not bother posting again in this thread.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: LMT on July 23, 2015, 01:45:12 pm
Steve's partisan crowd, once again doing themselves proud.  ::-)
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Pale Rider on July 23, 2015, 02:14:02 pm
Steve's PR is rubbish, that's a simple observation.

I lobbed a few quid in, making me an 'official' supporter.

Yet I found out about the new attempt via a post I happened to see on CycleChat.

The importance of good PR is another question - it won't help Steve get the record.

But were it not for Jo and his wonderful graphs, I would have lost interest/track of the attempt long ago.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: rabbit on July 23, 2015, 02:17:00 pm


The importance of good PR is another question - it won't help Steve get the record.


It will if it keeps sponsors happy and keeps the funding coming in. 
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: toontra on July 23, 2015, 02:24:06 pm
There has been regular sniping at anyone daring to question Steve's team's approach which I think does everyone a dis-service.

Alicia's videos may not be to everyone's taste but they give a really good flavour of what this event entails and would appeal to a wide audience.  Let's not forget he's almost entirely self-funding this so isn't just doing this to keep sponsors happy but actually hopes by putting these out they will capture the public imagination (which I think they do quite effectively).

Steve's team, on the other hand, seem to think (in true audax fashion) that if you're REALLY interested then you will find your way to Strava feeds or UMCA charts where you can follow the stats.  Even worse, they seem to actually want to keep stuff secret in case it gives some advantage to his competitors (which I have to say I don't understand at all.)

If it wasn't for YACF (has to be said isn't high in the public consciousness!) and especially Jo's brilliant daily summaries, there would be bugger all to follow.  Steve's effort is therefore invisible to 99.99% of the population, even if they know about it from media features. At the end when it's all over, I'm worried that there will be very to show what actually went on during the challenge apart from a few photos and ESL's occasional videos.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Pale Rider on July 23, 2015, 02:33:34 pm
There has been regular sniping at anyone daring to question Steve's team's approach which I think does everyone a dis-service.

Alicia's videos may not be to everyone's taste but they give a really good flavour of what this event entails and would appeal to a wide audience.  Let's not forget he's almost entirely self-funding this so isn't just doing this to keep sponsors happy but actually hopes by putting these out they will capture the public imagination (which I think they do quite effectively).

Steve's team, on the other hand, seem to think (in true audax fashion) that if you're REALLY interested then you will find your way to Strava feeds or UMCA charts where you can follow the stats.  Even worse, they seem to actually want to keep stuff secret in case it gives some advantage to his competitors (which I have to say I don't understand at all.)

If it wasn't for YACF (has to be said isn't high in the public consciousness!) and especially Jo's brilliant daily summaries, there would be bugger all to follow.  Steve's effort is therefore invisible to 99.99% of the population, even if they know about it from media features. At the end when it's all over, I'm worried that there will be very to show what actually went on during the challenge apart from a few photos and ESL's occasional videos.

Agreed.

Even on here, the daily threads have been getting very little interest and I see none has been started for the last two days.

The restart is an opportunity to invigorate the attempt in more ways than one.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Ningishzidda on July 23, 2015, 03:03:56 pm
Apologies.

The man to ask whether there is enough publicity is the man who's doing all the bicycle riding.
If he's happy and within his personal comfort zone, carry on 'as is'.

If he reckons it could be better, make it better.

He might tell you he doesn't want all the publicity.

Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Pale Rider on July 23, 2015, 03:18:26 pm

He might tell you he doesn't want all the publicity.

He might, but what he thinks doesn't matter.

There is a parallel here with professional sportsmen, few are comfortable in front of the cameras but they are obliged to do interviews by the sponsors and the media who want to hear what they say.

Steve is an amateur, but he is among the best in the world at what he does.

He is sponsored, so is effectively under similar obligations as a professional sportsman.

Some pros do their best to ignore such obligations, and Steve could do the same.

But wider publicity for the attempt - and more sponsorship if required - will only happen if Steve and the team make some effort to get it.

 
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: red marley on July 23, 2015, 03:43:27 pm
The man to ask whether there is enough publicity is the man who's doing all the bicycle riding.

I'd suggest the man to contact can be found at media@oneyeartimetrial.org.uk, who I think is Idai (EGO-Maniac on this forum), although there may be others involved.

I'd love to see a bit more publicity and the excitement we had for the OYTT in January. It's not just about the sponsors though. If I recall correctly from Godfrey Barlow's book, Tommy's final days of the 1939 challenge involved having escorts of many riders and large crowds greeting him in London at the end as a result of the publicity through the year.

Steve's restart means the timing would be ideal for some end of challenge coverage during the 2016 TdF on the telly but the demand needs to be created through the year with some more active social media presence. CitizenFish has an exciting book project (https://www.v-publishing.co.uk/books/categories/cycling/the-year.html) and generates a regular twitter feed of stats from Tommy and Steve. I'm doing my best with various graphics, but it would be great to have a bit more from the official team to build the excitement.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Jaded on July 23, 2015, 04:32:41 pm
He is sponsored, so is effectively under similar obligations as a professional sportsman.

What are the sponsors asking for that he is not providing?
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: TimC on July 23, 2015, 06:02:27 pm
I'm not sure that the sponsors are asking for anything - yet. But I'm equally sure that they hope to gain some positive publicity from Steve's efforts, and so they should. It would do no harm for the sponsors to see that their contributions are publicly acknowledged and valued, beyond just a mention on the OYTT website. Steve is, of course, focussed on putting in the massive and magnificent effort required to actually challenge the record. If there were no support team, we would happily accept that he has no time to be worrying about publicity etc. But that's not the case; he does have a support team - considerably larger than anything Kurt or Miles have. Some may think it churlish that those supporting Steve either financially or simply through interest should want rather better communication and publicity than we've had up to now, but I think it's quite a reasonable expectation. I hope that maybe a way can be found to improve things.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Jaded on July 23, 2015, 07:04:21 pm
What the sponsors want from Steve is between him and them. There may be an agreement, there may not. Raleigh are still getting mentions from Tommy Gowdwin, I believe. That's not bad for a sponsorship deal.

What the funders want is different. I'm a funder and a host and I never had expectations that I'd be treated differently in terms of information. This is a tough undertaking, both physically and mentally. Making it more challenging by piling on 'me me me' pressure may not be particularly helpful.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: toontra on July 23, 2015, 07:33:57 pm
What the funders want is different. I'm a funder and a host and I never had expectations that I'd be treated differently in terms of information.

No-one is saying that funders should be treated differently!  Everyone is presumably getting the same - practically nothing. That's the problem.

This is a tough undertaking, both physically and mentally. Making it more challenging by piling on 'me me me' pressure may not be particularly helpful.

We're not talking about Steve personally taking the time or effort.  According to the website there are people who have apparently agreed to deal with media and publicity.  For heaven's sake, many ventures would crave the potential interest that Steve's challenge generates - that's the hard bit!  Keeping people informed and interested should be relatively easy.  Something as simple as a Facebook page with daily updates would be a good start (Jo might agree to allow some of his amazing charts to be included?).  The current Facebook page has the air of being abandoned and is vaguely depressing in the way that neglected websites often are.

Instead there seems to be some sort of paranoia-fuelled media blackout from the team in case it somehow helps Kurt.  I simply don't understand.  As Jo says, with the new challenge starting on 8th August, this would be a good time to re-assess the publicity aspect and check with those who volunteered for the task originally to see if they are still interested.  A lot can change over a year!

I appreciate that things were blown badly off course by the accident, and that Steve will never have the 24-hour support that Kurt has.  Even so, there could be so much more interest and potential support generated for Steve by a relatively modest input from the team.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Climberruss on July 23, 2015, 08:47:52 pm
You'll have to stay disappointed. The money is not infinite and Steve's helpers have day jobs to do while Steve is out riding.

Now if you'd consider funding me £50,000 ( a year's salary + costs ), I'd be Steve's 'Live action' cameraman.

Sorry but you can create cheap quality videos for a fraction of £50,000.


Go on then !!   ;D

Thank you for volunteering.  :thumbsup:


If I lived in the UK then I would have no hesitation in helping in whatever way I could. I'm not knocking anybody just stating a clear fact that the media streams are to say the least poor. Just take a look at what a great job Alicia is doing in regards  to Kurt's challenge, with just a few minutes each day with either a phone or a cam.  If Steve is going to succeed then every other aspect of the challenge has to be given as much effort as Steve puts in to grinding out the miles.

From a PR point of view, you are spot on. Alicia's FB videos are great. She definately has a knack for it.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Shreds on July 23, 2015, 11:41:41 pm
Whatever the rights or wrongs of helping competitors, Steve deserves more, much much more.

Those who are helping are doing a fantastic job, so let's get behind Steve, whether it be on Facebook or by turning up and riding a couple of miles with him. It will make a difference in the end.

On that aspect, a rough indication of the direction of the day's proposed ride wouldn't go amiss. We have the restart to boost Steve a make him realise just how many latent cyclists are behind him.

It's up to us all to make the effort for him, even a Facebook like helps.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: TimC on July 24, 2015, 07:16:36 am
What the sponsors want from Steve is between him and them. There may be an agreement, there may not. Raleigh are still getting mentions from Tommy Gowdwin, I believe. That's not bad for a sponsorship deal.

What the funders want is different. I'm a funder and a host and I never had expectations that I'd be treated differently in terms of information. This is a tough undertaking, both physically and mentally. Making it more challenging by piling on 'me me me' pressure may not be particularly helpful.

Yeah, you're right. The sponsors are in it for charity, and Steve should keep everything as secret as possible. Don't want the competitors knowing how he's getting on, after all!
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Exit Stage Left on July 24, 2015, 09:04:21 am
It's an interesting case study. A lot of the YACF sentiment seems to be that Steve should be free of pressure, to do what he can. Target-based management is a bad thing, and the more freedom workers have, the better they will perform. In the extreme case there's a basic denial that there is any competition at all. The target of the record appears as a platonic ideal, and not caring whether Steve gets there is a sign of innate virtue in his backers.

More attention has been paid to the fact that a village has the word 'Gibbon' in it, than to the physiological and psychological demands of what is largely uncharted territory. As long as Steve has a Brooks saddle and a Carradice bag, he'll be alright.

This would be just an interesting diversion if Steve wasn't principally backed by YACF. There's bound to be a tension between the YACF view of the attempt, and the outside world. If you're trying to secure general interest, it's hard to integrate a video of bell-ringing in Marsh Gibbon, in the absence of Steve. A video of Steve visiting a sports scientist to judge the effects of the ride so far would be more comprehensible. I've got a lot of sympathy with his team for having to balance the range of perceptions about what Steve is doing.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: danridesbikes on July 24, 2015, 09:08:26 am
i wonder if the comments on Strava could be disabled, its the most public place his rides are, yet when he does a low a mileage day, the comments are full of negativity, with lots of uniformed people posting and commenting, Steve's from here of course, were more informed that a lot of the public, i have posted updates on his Strava rides before,
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: TimC on July 24, 2015, 09:54:33 am
Whether we like it or not, this is an endeavour carried out in the public eye. Therefore the public will, when it's given an opportunity, comment upon it. Strava is such an opportunity and, just like any other part of the Internet, some of the commentary will be unpleasant or even abusive. Sadly, that's the way it is. Strava is unmoderated, as far as I can tell, so there's no filter for the bad stuff. Nevertheless, most of the comments are positive.

ESL makes the point that this is largely a YACF-backed venture. Certainly, it started as such, but I think it went well beyond that quite rapidly. I've no idea what proportion of Steve's financial support comes from YACF regulars now, but the early days of the attempt got quite a lot of publicity which alerted the wider public to the venture and hopefully resulted in a wider source of income. That in itself is a good reason for upping the game re publicity, unless Steve feels that he'd rather the whole thing remained an in-house YACF project. I'd be surprised if that were the case.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Exit Stage Left on July 24, 2015, 10:04:54 am
This is YACF, where there's an Elephant in every room. The first step in any debate is to dispute whether the Elephant is there or not. The outside world is less nuanced.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: TimC on July 24, 2015, 12:04:32 pm
Probably a straw man or two as well! All we're missing is a few Grauniad links.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: TheRedEyeJedi on July 24, 2015, 12:28:35 pm
i wonder if the comments on Strava could be disabled, its the most public place his rides are, yet when he does a low a mileage day, the comments are full of negativity, with lots of uniformed people posting and commenting, Steve's from here of course, were more informed that a lot of the public, i have posted updates on his Strava rides before,

Or just edit the title of the ride to make it clear what it is trying to be achieved... and mention the restart date?   The negative comments will be worse if people who do not come on this site or donate have no idea what the plan is.   Most people on strava would understand the ride more if it was titled; "Recovery ride pending 8th Aug Restart" ...that takes seconds to do.

I personally would love to see more videos, facebook updates, interviews and general updates from the team through the day, for no other reason than I find Steve a pretty interesting and compelling person.    While I do not want PR and press to infringe on his bike hours - a bit more involvement of the public (and his own community) would be a big plus in my opinion and I actually think it would help Steves moral.

Surely some people riding with him would help - I am not talking strangers, but people he could get used to riding with who could carry his carradice and provide some shelter and support?   Maybe a carbon Raleigh could be provided and one of the support crew could occasionally drive or cycle the carbon bike out to Steve for a few fast loops within a ride or a swift sprint home ?     You could even have someone riding with him with a faster, more aggressive bike and they could swap bikes with 50 miles left and let Steve sprint home?   I think this record is very hard to beat unless Steve is prepared to get more creative ...his average speed has to increase even if he slightly strays from Godwins method and uses more modern techniques .... like Tarzan has.   If Steve just wanted to do the ride as a tribute to Godwin then fair enough, but I understand from Steves comments that he wants to beat the record and the other competitors.   If he wants to do that then I think he needs more than the incredible levels of grit and stamina he posseses.   He needs to look at his routes and equipment rather than focusing on cutting out fuss at the start and end of day.    There is no way on earth that the way he has done things this year is the fastest way to ride.   Maybe Steve does not want to make certain concessions that would help him?   That is admirable but I fear it will make a record beating year very hard.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Ben T on July 24, 2015, 12:46:42 pm
the trouble is for the media it now isn't news. It was news when he started, and it'll be news when he finishes it, but the fact that something is still going on the same as it was yesterday and probably the same as it will be tomorrow, is not news, therefore the media will not be interested.
In a similar way to how the greek debt crisis is not news any more, and why things like "newsflash! the earth has gone round the sun yet again!" do not generally tend to appear in the media.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: TheRedEyeJedi on July 24, 2015, 12:50:58 pm
I wasnt really talking about getting updates into the media.   I was simply referring to putting stuff out from the team on facebook, strava, twitter, youtube ect.    Just a short weekly update detailing where he has been, what his problems have been, what his successes have been ect.  Maybe ask his hosts and riding partners to submit journals and write ups and post them up on facebook ect.   There is clearly an interest from a lot of people.

There are so many stats, maps and details to be discussed here -that is why we are all so interested on top of the simple human interest story.   I would just like to see more a fuss and buzz being created by Steves team.    Facebook is so quick and easy to use and you can reach most people who are interested in him - It was great when the attempt first started and updates were posted.  I was sharing these and people with no interst in cycling followed steves page.   Then it all just stopped?  Just seems a shame?

I would love to see someone recruited to edit and publish coverage of Steves attempt, then present it in a media savvy way.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Canardly on July 24, 2015, 12:54:39 pm
Of huge interest to the cycling fraternity (and dare I say sponsors) will be how elements of the kit Steve is using has performed, what works, what doesnt, and what had to be changed etc. Nothing being said atm.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: TimC on July 24, 2015, 03:45:24 pm
the trouble is for the media it now isn't news. It was news when he started, and it'll be news when he finishes it, but the fact that something is still going on the same as it was yesterday and probably the same as it will be tomorrow, is not news, therefore the media will not be interested.
In a similar way to how the greek debt crisis is not news any more, and why things like "newsflash! the earth has gone round the sun yet again!" do not generally tend to appear in the media.

Actually, I think there's been quite a lot of interest from mainstream media - more than I expected. But I don't think that's the issue (although I'm sure the sponsors would like more!). For me, it's the more personal stuff. Steve doesn't have an Alycia to take ad-hoc movies, but his team sees him often enough that authoritative updates could easily and frequently be placed on FB, Strava, AUK, and here. Jo does an amazing job collating all the ride info on the various riders, and we have all come to rely on that. We've had two updates from Steve's team in the last month or so - once it became obvious that the current attempt was no longer on track - but I think we'd all appreciate a bit more, and Steve would reap the benefit in more donations at the very least.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Exit Stage Left on July 24, 2015, 05:01:34 pm
There's been some response.
http://www.icebike.org/steven-abraham-and-the-one-year-time-trial/
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: TimC on July 24, 2015, 05:10:19 pm
I saw that just a few minutes ago, having caught a link on Strava - definitely a step in the right direction, but I wondered a little at the choice of site to carry it. Is Icebike a well-known site? I'd never heard of it before today.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Ben T on July 24, 2015, 11:31:02 pm
Need to get him on celeb BB, I think relatively he'd be one of the most famous ones on there  ::-) ;D
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Jaded on July 24, 2015, 11:33:59 pm
What the sponsors want from Steve is between him and them. There may be an agreement, there may not. Raleigh are still getting mentions from Tommy Gowdwin, I believe. That's not bad for a sponsorship deal.

What the funders want is different. I'm a funder and a host and I never had expectations that I'd be treated differently in terms of information. This is a tough undertaking, both physically and mentally. Making it more challenging by piling on 'me me me' pressure may not be particularly helpful.

Yeah, you're right. The sponsors are in it for charity, and Steve should keep everything as secret as possible. Don't want the competitors knowing how he's getting on, after all!

You've turned "what the sponsors want from Steve" into charity. Well done. Gold star.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: TimC on July 25, 2015, 09:26:33 am
What the sponsors want from Steve is between him and them. There may be an agreement, there may not. Raleigh are still getting mentions from Tommy Gowdwin, I believe. That's not bad for a sponsorship deal.

What the funders want is different. I'm a funder and a host and I never had expectations that I'd be treated differently in terms of information. This is a tough undertaking, both physically and mentally. Making it more challenging by piling on 'me me me' pressure may not be particularly helpful.

Yeah, you're right. The sponsors are in it for charity, and Steve should keep everything as secret as possible. Don't want the competitors knowing how he's getting on, after all!

You've turned "what the sponsors want from Steve" into charity. Well done. Gold star.
j
Well, it's simple really. If a sponsor wants no return for their investment, that is effectively charity. That's the position you and I and many others who've financially contributed to Steve's effort are in. All we ask in return is information - which is the point of the current discussion. The commercial organisations will, no doubt, require a little more. How much more will depend on the individual organisation, but it's probably pretty safe to assume that Raleigh, Schwalbe and Chain Reaction will want some publicity that puts them in a good light with potential customers. If I were one of those businesses, I would be hoping for (and probably arranging) coverage during the event so that the potential benefits are maximised - waiting for the end of the event, with the possibility of failure very real, would risk losing much of that potential benefit. Whether the sponsors are happy with the coverage they've had so far obviously I can't say, but my observation is that, so far at least, they haven't had a great deal. Maybe they're ok with that.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Jaded on July 25, 2015, 10:21:45 am
All I am saying is that we don't know what the sponsors want from Steve, and that the benefit from the 1YTT potentially goes on years afterwards. To give Steve three bikes represents a cost of maybe £1,000, maybe 50% more. That's less than the cost of one full page advert in a cycling magazine.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: TimC on July 25, 2015, 10:57:50 am
Yes, I agre they're not likely to have invested very much. From that point of view it's probably good value, although I'm surprised they haven't capitalised on it more. But, really, that's an aside from the issue of keeping the supporters informed a little more effectively than has been the case hitherto. But I fear the length of this conversation makes this appear to be a bigger issue than it is. It's simply a case of some of us wishing for a bit more info than we've had, really.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Jaded on July 25, 2015, 11:01:07 am
Let's see what comes out after the re-launch, it has been a bit of a phoney war over the last four months.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Jacamo on July 25, 2015, 02:23:33 pm
Yes, I agre they're not likely to have invested very much. From that point of view it's probably good value, although I'm surprised they haven't capitalised on it more.

They will capitalize on it- but only if and when the attempt is successful.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: RichForrest on July 25, 2015, 03:08:07 pm
Rode with Steve today for a bit, he's in good spirits, looking good and starting to get faster again from a few days recovery mileage.
He would like a camera but wouldn't have the time to edit or upload stuff.
I left him heading for the flatlands again and came home as I had to collect the kids  ;D
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: DaveE128 on July 27, 2015, 11:01:54 am
I have an idea why Steve has recently had some fatigue problems. Clearly not visiting Marsh Gibbon has unexpected consequences! ;)

I think the idea of editing the title of the ride on the Strava upload with a one line summary of the day's ride would be a good way to improve audience connection.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: simonp on July 30, 2015, 05:06:54 pm
Well, backing off for a week or so has improved Steve's speed significantly, it seems:

https://www.strava.com/activities/356931909

310kms, and barely 11h on the bike.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: mattc on July 30, 2015, 06:42:28 pm
the trouble is for the media it now isn't news. It was news when he started, and it'll be news when he finishes it, but the fact that something is still going on the same as it was yesterday and probably the same as it will be tomorrow, is not news, therefore the media will not be interested.
In a similar way to how the greek debt crisis is not news any more, and why things like "newsflash! the earth has gone round the sun yet again!" do not generally tend to appear in the media.
Well put. we're pretty much seeing as much "buzz" around Steve at this stage as I would expect.



So (@Timc et al), about these Sponsors: what do they want?* Publicity! Are they getting it? Yup.
Period.

And let's review the much-praised publicity from Team Kurt. If it wasnt for one person (Alicia) who is in a position unique to all the competing teams, we would have maybe 1% of the coverage. Likewise, for those not on Facebook - and this may be a hard concept for Facebookers - there is very little out there.

So I'm quite happy that Steve's team are giving us what we need. It was always in the nature of his attempt that things would be crowd-sourced; jo's graphs and other stuff on YACF are emblematic of that, and a big positive  :thumbsup:

We don't need weekly repetitive vlogs of flat roads ;)

*(Maybe they're bugging Team Steve behind the scenes for weekly blogs, or a webcam in his bathroom ... we just don't know. )
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: ramchip on July 30, 2015, 06:54:16 pm
the trouble is for the media it now isn't news. It was news when he started, and it'll be news when he finishes it, but the fact that something is still going on the same as it was yesterday and probably the same as it will be tomorrow, is not news, therefore the media will not be interested.
In a similar way to how the greek debt crisis is not news any more, and why things like "newsflash! the earth has gone round the sun yet again!" do not generally tend to appear in the media.
Well put. we're pretty much seeing as much "buzz" around Steve at this stage as I would expect.





So (@Timc et al), about these Sponsors: what do they want?* Publicity! Are they getting it? Yup.
Period.

And let's review the much-praised publicity from Team Kurt. If it wasnt for one person (Alicia) who is in a position unique to all the competing teams, we would have maybe 1% of the coverage. Likewise, for those not on Facebook - and this may be a hard concept for Facebookers - there is very little out there.

So I'm quite happy that Steve's team are giving us what we need. It was always in the nature of his attempt that things would be crowd-sourced; jo's graphs and other stuff on YACF are emblematic of that, and a big positive  :thumbsup:

We don't need weekly repetitive vlogs of flat roads ;)

*(Maybe they're bugging Team Steve behind the scenes for weekly blogs, or a webcam in his bathroom ... we just don't know. )


(http://images.rapgenius.com/ee779bd7bd5796f12cb073ab94a9090e.450x302x1.gif)
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: mattc on July 30, 2015, 07:58:21 pm
Heh, you're funny!

You'll be pleased to hear I have about as much respect for your posts. :)
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: TimC on July 31, 2015, 10:22:35 am
ESPN have just done a feature on Kurt, which I think is the first coverage he's had for a while (I think Bicycling's article was the only other I've seen over there). Of course, he's not sponsored - either by industry or by donations - so media coverage is possibly irrelevant to him. Alycia's vlogs are great; amusing and interesting and they'll make a fascinating record of Kurt's year to look back on.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: CrazyEnglishTriathlete on July 31, 2015, 01:40:48 pm
TG has done what he said he was going to do - take it a little easier for a while (without grinding to a halt) and then picking up the speed again ahead of a relaunch.  He's done 34,617 miles so far, so 200mpd would take the annual total to 66,000, which is a mighty impressive total and more than anyone else apart from the other TG has managed.  And then there's the new attempt...
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: fungus on August 02, 2015, 10:58:00 am
When does the new attempt start  ???

Ignore that!  I've just seen that it's the 8th of August  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Justin(e) on August 02, 2015, 05:05:02 pm
Good luck TG with new launch.

Wish you the best of health.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: DaveE128 on August 03, 2015, 04:34:12 pm
He isn't having a... <hushed voice>day off</hushed voice>... is he?! Or is the live tracker just down? :)

Might be good for the legs!
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: TimC on August 03, 2015, 04:37:24 pm
I kind of hope he is - he won't get another chance for a long time!
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Basil on August 03, 2015, 05:14:45 pm
Blimey, looks like he just set off at about ten to five!

Maybe he's just nipping down the chippie.   :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: TimC on August 03, 2015, 05:22:01 pm
Perhaps he's been waiting for the wind to drop? It's been pretty blustery all day out here in the East. Riding through the evening and night might be a lot more pleasant due lack of traffic, as well.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Ningishzidda on August 03, 2015, 09:05:38 pm
What was his riding schedule in the last week of December 2014?

That might give us a clue.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Fidgetbuzz on August 04, 2015, 01:44:36 pm
My recollection is that he started 1YTT with quite low pre start riding for several months - I think you can check it out on Strava.

Aug 8th is going to be a totally different kettle of fish - provided he has the mental strength to be starting now for another year - when he has already been committed for the last 7 months.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Arry-R on August 04, 2015, 09:04:41 pm
My recollection is that he started 1YTT with quite low pre start riding for several months - I think you can check it out on Strava.

Aug 8th is going to be a totally different kettle of fish - provided he has the mental strength to be starting now for another year - when he has already been committed for the last 7 months.


very low in Dec 14 as very busy on computer from dawn to dusk (and longer then! ) getting everything in place.

couldn't agree more that 8th of August will be a very different kettle of fish. we shall just have to wait and see what transpires
good luck Steve
 :thumbsup:


Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Shreds on August 05, 2015, 08:02:49 am
First question, will there be any sort of send off for Steve on the 8th? Is he planning a 'night' or 'daytime' start?

Secondly it would be good this time if daily reports resumed and even advanced reports of the direction he might be heading in the following day would give supporters the opportunity to show up and show their support for the next twelve months. I travel a lot with work and have been disappointingly close or too early/late on a number of occasions, when I would otherwise have adjusted my schedule to suit and if nothing else add some encouragement out on the road.

It is better if reports are separated by date, otherwise the reports end up as pages and pages of endless, sometime irrelevant babble.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Wobbly on August 05, 2015, 08:19:43 am
I definitely prefer the daily reports. Much easier to follow. Kurt's thread is just about to hit 100 pages....
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Ningishzidda on August 06, 2015, 09:28:08 am
First question, will there be any sort of send off for Steve on the 8th? Is he planning a 'night' or 'daytime' start?

Secondly it would be good this time if daily reports resumed and even advanced reports of the direction he might be heading in the following day would give supporters the opportunity to show up and show their support for the next twelve months. I travel a lot with work and have been disappointingly close or too early/late on a number of occasions, when I would otherwise have adjusted my schedule to suit and if nothing else add some encouragement out on the road.

It is better if reports are separated by date, otherwise the reports end up as pages and pages of endless, sometime irrelevant babble.

I will second this.
I have holidays and would use them cycling out to see Steve ( and having a slap-up breakfast )  :thumbsup:

Maybe if a rendezvous can occur, I'll foot Steve's expense.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Shreds on August 06, 2015, 11:04:40 am
Ok Steve,

That is two slap up breakfasts booked, only another 364 to book!

See you down the road.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Arry-R on August 07, 2015, 05:27:11 am
Steve enjoy your last day of pottering around keeping the legs in trim. tomorrow the action starts!
206 miles (and more when you can) every day for the next 364 days.  quite an undertaking on top of last seven months
 but we wish you fast and safe miles.   I hope that you enjoy PBP this month.
 :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: hellymedic on August 07, 2015, 05:13:39 pm
Wot Arry-R said!
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: danridesbikes on August 07, 2015, 08:27:21 pm
do we need a new thread tomorrow? while renaming this one? as there is an outside chance its still on
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Canardly on August 07, 2015, 08:34:42 pm
Good luck with this Steve we all know you can do this and do it well!
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Arry-R on August 07, 2015, 08:40:44 pm
yes new thread required for Saturday onwards as no way (but Steve please prove me wrong) is 39454 miles going to be achieved in remaining months to end of year.

 :facepalm:
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Shreds on August 07, 2015, 09:18:16 pm
That would be 272 a day....... :o
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: clarion on August 07, 2015, 09:29:15 pm
Go Steve!
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: jsabine on August 07, 2015, 11:46:38 pm
Indeed - best of luck tomorrow (and for the 364 days after that).
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Wowbagger on August 08, 2015, 12:34:55 am
Has he started yet?  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Shreds on August 08, 2015, 05:40:45 am
Doesn't look like to on Trackleaders yet, but is there going to be new page for the new attempt?
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: red marley on August 08, 2015, 05:52:45 am
I don't think there needs to be one. We can just label each new day's thread '8th August - Teethgrinder Day 1 / 220' etc.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: mattc on August 08, 2015, 08:55:15 am
Doesn't look like to on Trackleaders yet, but is there going to be new page for the new attempt?
After decoding the post above [ to / it ? ],
I assume the question is about getting a new map page on trackleaders.com

Which seems a jolly sensible idea!
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Grandad on August 08, 2015, 09:17:18 pm
Now that the new attempt is definitely on it would be nice to see this confirmed as a News item on Steve's website.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: andyoxon on August 09, 2015, 09:00:14 am
If I understand things correctly, presumably that come next year in addition to a potential HAM'R/Tommy Godwin year record, the total miles that Steve may have cycled from Jan 2015 - Aug 2016 will form an 'unofficial' (within HAM'R regs) but still verified possible absolute mileage total record of 100K+ miles...(?)
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: mcshroom on August 09, 2015, 09:49:10 am
I raise the comms topic with trepidation as I think there are far more important things than feeding our desire for news/gossip, but I think it would be a good idea for Steve to turn the 'Share to Facebook' option on in Strava. It shouldn't cause him any extra work, but the daily posts with amazing distances will keep droping onto people's newsfeeds, keep the profile high and generate their own debate in the comments.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: TimC on August 09, 2015, 10:06:05 am
I agree, though I find that feature fairly unreliable, tending to turn itself off randomly and for no obvious reason, which means someone's got to keep an eye on it.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: red marley on August 10, 2015, 01:40:43 pm
From the Tarzan thread...

Steve is indeed inspirational and it is such a massive shame that his initial effort was cut short by a piss-head. I wonder where he would have been now if he hadn't been injured.

But starting again must take a determination which is impossible for most of us to comprehend.

It's good that Steve appears not be giving in to an "if only..." view of the incident and challenge.

My own view is that most of us, riders included, have underestimated just how hard keeping up Tommy's (paced) summer ride distances would be. In the early part of the year we all thought that falling behind that 205.6mpd average would be OK because it would be made up by monster miles in the summer. The reality is that it is just not possible to do 300mpd unaided and uninterrupted for weeks on end.

For that reason, I don't think Steve would have made the record on his original schedule even without the incident. He did have a spell in late June where he appeared to be upping the speed and distance to try to bring back the 2015 attempt, but that soon resulted in fatigue (around the Mersey 24 time) that showed this is not sustainable. I wouldn't put that down completely to a healing ankle. For similar reasons, I doubt that Miles will make it either. Without paced riding and a lot more team support, I think the only way to beat 75,065 miles is to ride a little more than average pace for most of the year, much as Kurt is doing.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: mattc on August 10, 2015, 03:45:48 pm
A pretty sound analysis jo.

Although I would say we can't know how much damage the accident did - he was riding big miles a long time before any doc would have predicted, so there MAY be long-term affects in there. Yes, he could never match Tommy's paced days, but he might have been capable of big summer averages.

Also I think that with our climate, for an MK-centric attempt SOME concession to the seasons seems sensible. So a schedule somewhere between dead-even pacing and Tommy's schedule is probably optimum.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: hillbilly on August 10, 2015, 04:46:04 pm
Agree this is sound thinking.  I'd come to pretty much the same conclusion on those days when you are pedalling along thinking how you'd do it. 

Kurt's strategy of banging out consistent miles over 365 days is entirely sensible.  I think this is possible in the States, where you can flit between states with (broadly) consistent weather conditions. 

Whether it is possible in the UK, with shorter days and colder weather in winter, remains to be seen.  Personally I suspect it means that UK riders would need to do more miles in the summer and less in the winter, but not to the same extremes as were being scheduled by Steve at the start of the year.  I also suspect it needs some opportunistic riding, particularly in the winter, to take advantage of breaks in conditions as an offset against those occasions when the weather isn't playing ball.

I think Miles is making a fundamental mistake seeking to mirror Tommy's progression.  Come 6 months, he is going to struggle to keep pace and will fall behind.  He will then be left seeking to do more in the last 3 months of the year than Tommy did.  Will be interesting to see the progress on Jo's fabulous charts.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Arry-R on August 10, 2015, 06:41:17 pm
I am surprised that Steve seems unwilling to partake of pacing offers which have been made.  I can understand the worry of a wheel touching scenario but PBP is likely to have more wheels around that he would ever have on his record attempt.
We eagerly await today's (higher we hope) mileage   ??? ???


Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Kim on August 10, 2015, 06:51:05 pm
I am surprised that Steve seems unwilling to partake of pacing offers which have been made.  I can understand the worry of a wheel touching scenario but PBP is likely to have more wheels around that he would ever have on his record attempt.
We eagerly await today's (higher we hope) mileage   ??? ???

Steve was (and I assume still is) riding to a heartrate.  That doesn't make pacing (or more correctly, drafting) impossible, but would probably need a bit of tech-fu to put a realtime display of his heartrate somewhere where the person on the front of the group could see it.  I doubt that Ant+ has sufficient range on its own.

You could argue for a change in strategy, of course.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Frank9755 on August 10, 2015, 08:19:50 pm
I agree it is surprising.  At the start of the year I thoguht it was one of the big advantages Steve had.
It shouldn't be that hard to do.  After a short while people would get the hang of the pace Steve wants.  If they rode alongside him for half an hour they would pick it up.  If all else fails, he could shout, or just wait for them to look back and see that he is not there.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: hillbilly on August 10, 2015, 08:37:27 pm
Isn't there something more noble about not being paced?  Sometimes it is not just what you do, but how you do it.  Steve has, if anything, always given the impression that it is about more than just the score on the board.  Panache, of a sort, and all the better for it.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Wobbly on August 11, 2015, 08:19:44 am
I don't usually post my thoughts on the current record attempt but seeing that we have near perfect riding conditions at the moment shouldn't Steve be putting in some big distances right now instead of 200-and-a-bit distances?

And does anyone know if Steve is indeed doing PBP? I keep hearing it mentioned but I don't recall seeing any actual details.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Arry-R on August 11, 2015, 08:38:54 am
I don't usually post my thoughts on the current record attempt but seeing that we have near perfect riding conditions at the moment shouldn't Steve be putting in some big distances right now instead of 200-and-a-bit distances?

And does anyone know if Steve is indeed doing PBP? I keep hearing it mentioned but I don't recall seeing any actual details.


couldn't agree more with your posting. mileages far too low

as for PBP all quiet.  a request was put out for a Driver to look after him over there,  recharge thingies download data etc
 was that role forefilled?
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Salvatore on August 11, 2015, 08:39:26 am
He's T166 according to the tracking page. Same start group as I'm in.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Wobbly on August 11, 2015, 08:41:20 am
Thanks Salvatore. Which group's that?
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Wobbly on August 11, 2015, 08:42:57 am
Note to self: Have a word with Iddai about publicity or lack of. We're both in the same PBP starting group...
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Salvatore on August 11, 2015, 09:16:20 am
Thanks Salvatore. Which group's that?

The last of the 90 hour groups.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: toontra on August 11, 2015, 10:00:50 am
I don't usually post my thoughts on the current record attempt but seeing that we have near perfect riding conditions at the moment shouldn't Steve be putting in some big distances right now instead of 200-and-a-bit distances?


couldn't agree more with your posting. mileages far too low


Isn't it more a case of the average riding speed being too slow (as it has been from the very start back in January)?  Unless Steve can get consistently above 16mph (Kurt is somewhere near 18) then he'll always be struggling with sleep and rest deprivation.  The limiting factor is the hours in a day - certainly not Steve's determination.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Fidgetbuzz on August 11, 2015, 10:04:52 am
I have Steve's PBP bike now -.....   complicated checking it in, picking up documentation etc , Linking with support vehicle and TG himself as my start is 5.30 -- but as far as I can foresee- we have all bases covered at the moment.

Personally I was surprised when he chose the 9.00pm start , rather than the Monday morning - when he could have had 5 or 6  hours sleep in a booked hotel and would have been faster thru controls  .. which had been the plan put in place months ago.

BUT - I was told it was his choice and there was no point in discussing or debating  it -- but to me it still does not seem the right start time to maximise sleep, minimise control time etc
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: red marley on August 11, 2015, 10:32:44 am
Isn't it more a case of the average riding speed being too slow (as it has been from the very start back in January)?  Unless Steve can get consistently above 16mph (Kurt is somewhere near 18) then he'll always be struggling with sleep and rest deprivation.  The limiting factor is the hours in a day - certainly not Steve's determination.

Looking at his and the others' average speed, he has been increasing his speed over the last couple of weeks, to the extent that he is currently riding faster than Kurt and as fast as he has at any point during the year.

(http://gicentre.org/oytt/images/movingAverageAug10.png)

Zooming in a little...

(http://gicentre.org/oytt/images/movingAverageAug10Inset.png)
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Ningishzidda on August 11, 2015, 11:37:38 am
Upthread, Kim suggests Steve is pacing with a HRM. That’s a sensible approach.

Steve will know how fast he can ride at a HR, and he knows how much sleep he needs. He will have enough experience to know what HR can be maintained without it becoming cause of insomnia.
Steve would have done the maths. He must assess he can beat Tommy’s record.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: toontra on August 11, 2015, 01:00:03 pm
to the extent that he is currently riding faster than Kurt and as fast as he has at any point during the year.

Not really.  He has ridden faster than Kurt on a few days, but that probably coincides with days that Kurt has experienced adverse weather conditions or medical issues. 

His speed has certainly increased recently - let's hope that can be maintained for the next 12 months, because that's what it will take (amazing to even consider).  However it's noticeable that Kurt's speed has dropped off slightly over the year - perhaps that is the reality as the challenge takes it's toll, rather than hoping for increased speed as a result of repetitive effort and fitness.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Ningishzidda on August 11, 2015, 01:09:17 pm
Remember,,,

The hare was faster than the tortoise for the time he wasn't asleep.  ;D
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: TimC on August 11, 2015, 01:15:20 pm
Kurt's lost a bit of speed recently due his lung issues (which I hope are resolved soon); as Jo's graph shows, he's normally at 18 and quite frequently a good bit more. Steve's average has fluctuated hugely due to his various travails, but it seems his 'natural' speed is around 16mph. With something like 240 mpd being the presumed target through the late summer, that's 15 hours a day on the road, plus stopping time, which probably doesn't leave enough time for adequate rest. I've seen reference to Steve using HR to keep the fatigue stress down, which has perhaps limited his speed. It's a problem - too fast and burn out, too slow and insufficient miles? I think if I were in his shoes, I'd do the same: at least ride for the full year even if the distance isn't quite there, rather than have to finish early with fewer (but faster) miles.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Jacamo on August 11, 2015, 09:02:33 pm

Not really.  He has ridden faster than Kurt on a few days, but that probably coincides with days that Kurt has experienced adverse weather conditions or medical issues. 


Kurt has also ridden 1,500 more miles than Steve over the last 3 weeks.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Jacamo on August 11, 2015, 09:12:02 pm
Upthread, Kim suggests Steve is pacing with a HRM. That’s a sensible approach.


Not really. Heart rate is the least accurate measure of effort in an ultra endurance event such as this.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: toontra on August 11, 2015, 09:25:45 pm
Upthread, Kim suggests Steve is pacing with a HRM. That’s a sensible approach.


Not really. Heart rate is the least accurate measure of effort in an ultra endurance such as this.

I'm also slightly puzzled if that is the dictating indicator.  I'm not sure how it would be possible to calculate in advance what the optimum heart rate would be over the whole year when by the very nature of the event the factors involved have not been experienced before (including by Steve over this timescale).

It could be he's "keeping the brakes on" or conversely (less likely) over-extending himself.  Surely it eventually just comes down to feel.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: hillbilly on August 12, 2015, 09:35:31 am
I'd imagine that the HRM would be a useful indicator of over-training.  But often that simply backs up what your body is feeding back.  On the bike, Steve is experienced enough to know when he is pushing too hard (particularly as he is riding solo, rather than being befuddled by the influence of other riders who may be riding at a different tempo).

I look at Steve's current mileage and think he's doing just fine.  Sensible in fact, and gives me more confidence that he will achieve the record.  Anyone who thought he would suddenly jump from 150 mile "recovery" rides to 250 mile+ "record" rides, after doing long miles for six months and recovering from a broken ankle, is asking too much of him as an athlete.  It is, after all, simply the first week in his new attempt and he probably has half an eye on the sleep deprivation in foreign climes and the general exertion and associated fatigue that PBP will entail.  The latter half of August will (I imagine) be more telling.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Ningishzidda on August 12, 2015, 10:16:16 am
Upthread, Kim suggests Steve is pacing with a HRM. That’s a sensible approach.


Not really. Heart rate is the least accurate measure of effort in an ultra endurance event such as this.

Let's have a list of more accurate metrics.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Ningishzidda on August 12, 2015, 10:41:45 am
A HRM in endurance events is a method by which the athlete can judge their condition against previously recorded results from heavily exhaustive investigation.

This means the HRM user on events such as Steve’s should have been monitoring their condition for at least 12 months to gain knowledge of ‘Expected’ for riding conditions.

Riding at ‘Expected’ will give Steve the best chance of success.

If the HRM does something ‘Unexpected’, it could be sign of illness, which is what Steve doesn’t want.
If Steve’s HR is consistently above ‘Expected’ on any day, he can consult his team doctor or physician.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: simonp on August 12, 2015, 10:46:04 am
Yesterday's ride had an average HR of 85bpm according to teh Strava.

Slacker!
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Jacamo on August 12, 2015, 12:39:27 pm
Upthread, Kim suggests Steve is pacing with a HRM. That’s a sensible approach.


Not really. Heart rate is the least accurate measure of effort in an ultra endurance event such as this.

Let's have a list of more accurate metrics.

Number one on my list would be watts (normalized power). Of course this number alone means little, and you need to monitor all the basic metrics (HR, waking HR, blood pressure before/after rides, sleep hours, RPE, weekly blood tests, etc) in combination with wattage to know if a rider is overdoing it, or leaving something on the table.

Increasing or decreasing daily normalized power to adjust to the riders physiology is *much* more effective than riding to a certain self-imposed HR.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: mattc on August 12, 2015, 12:43:49 pm
Upthread, Kim suggests Steve is pacing with a HRM. That’s a sensible approach.


Not really. Heart rate is the least accurate measure of effort in an ultra endurance event such as this.

Let's have a list of more accurate metrics.

Number one on my list would be watts (normalized power). Of course this number alone means little, and you need to monitor all the basic metrics (HR, waking HR, blood pressure before/after rides, sleep hours, RPE, weekly blood tests, etc) in combination with wattage to know if a rider is overdoing it, or leaving something on the table.

Increasing or decreasing daily normalized power to adjust to the riders physiology is *much* more effective than riding to a certain self-imposed HR.
So that's:
One (1)

(and it's a lot of work to monitor all that stuff, but that's by-the-by)

How many of these more accurate metrics do you have?
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Ningishzidda on August 12, 2015, 12:56:48 pm
Yesterday's ride had an average HR of 85bpm according to teh Strava.

Slacker!

Steve will be along shortly to confirm that was 'As expected'.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Ningishzidda on August 12, 2015, 01:04:06 pm
I’ve sussed it.

The road into Marsh Gibbon is flat and straight. That’s where Steve checks his HR against previous data.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: TimC on August 12, 2015, 01:08:09 pm
If Steve checks his HR against previous data, I would have thought it's mainly via the ride analysis page on Strava. Of course, Ning, you may not use that as it really needs a Garmin to log the data! ;D
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: teethgrinder on August 12, 2015, 01:32:21 pm
I think I have learned from what I have done so far.
I'm not just going by heart rate but also by feel.
Nor am I riding to a specific heart rate.

Even I don't know my route for the day.
I check the weather each morning then decide. I often change my route during the day
 Today is an example. Route change and early stop for a feed so I can buy a front light as I forgot my battery. :facepalm:

Taking things a bit easy to start with.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Jacamo on August 12, 2015, 02:07:09 pm
Upthread, Kim suggests Steve is pacing with a HRM. That’s a sensible approach.


Not really. Heart rate is the least accurate measure of effort in an ultra endurance event such as this.

Let's have a list of more accurate metrics.

Number one on my list would be watts (normalized power). Of course this number alone means little, and you need to monitor all the basic metrics (HR, waking HR, blood pressure before/after rides, sleep hours, RPE, weekly blood tests, etc) in combination with wattage to know if a rider is overdoing it, or leaving something on the table.

Increasing or decreasing daily normalized power to adjust to the riders physiology is *much* more effective than riding to a certain self-imposed HR.
So that's:
One (1)


I would also put RPE ahead of HR monitoring for pacing. 1-Power, 2-RPE, and 3-HR. There are no others easily monitored while riding.

Also, other than blood testing, it would take no more than 5 minutes per day to record all the other metrics. Of course you'd need a trainer and doctor to track/assess the data and recommend adjustments, but without a power meter you'd have no accurate/reliable metric to adjust to.

Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Ningishzidda on August 12, 2015, 02:19:36 pm
The number 1 consideration I use to adjust riding speed is,,

Will all the cake be eaten before I arrive?
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: mattc on August 12, 2015, 06:43:05 pm
I would also put RPE ahead of HR monitoring for pacing.
that's hilarious.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Jacamo on August 12, 2015, 08:34:46 pm
I would also put RPE ahead of HR monitoring for pacing.
that's hilarious.

Laugh away, or go read any of the published studies on HR response and cardiac drift during ultra endurance exercise. The choice is yours....
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: CrazyEnglishTriathlete on August 12, 2015, 10:50:12 pm
I think I have learned from what I have done so far.
I'm not just going by heart rate but also by feel.
Nor am I riding to a specific heart rate.

Even I don't know my route for the day.
I check the weather each morning then decide. I often change my route during the day
 Today is an example. Route change and early stop for a feed so I can buy a front light as I forgot my battery. :facepalm:

Taking things a bit easy to start with.


Good to hear from you TG.  I like the idea of being free to ride where you feel like riding - they're often the best ones.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Ningishzidda on August 13, 2015, 11:34:40 am
There are two measurements of exertion one can use while cycling that do not require any additional equipment.
The first is the simple test whether the exertion can be accomplished by breathing only in through the nose. When the mouth is required for breathing in, workrate is increasing.
The second is the drip of sweat off your brow. When this happens, you can bet you’re working hard, so slow down!  :thumbsup:

An accomplished AUK cyclist only needs to breathe in through the mouth on upward hills.
Being able to only use the nose for breathing on flat roads allows the cyclist to eat boiled sweets.

Auks very seldom have a drip of sweat run down into their eye from the brow.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: mukkinese on August 13, 2015, 03:04:49 pm

Auks very seldom have a drip of sweat run down into their eye from the brow.

I do, almost constantly.

Perhaps I should knit myself a headband.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Mr Larrington on August 13, 2015, 03:31:05 pm
Auks very seldom have a drip of sweat run down into their eye from the brow.

Clearly Sir did not ride the Alan Furley in 2005 :)
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Ningishzidda on August 17, 2015, 08:23:07 am

Auks very seldom have a drip of sweat run down into their eye from the brow.

I do, almost constantly.

Perhaps I should knit myself a headband.

I bought one. When Laurant Fignon won the tour.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Clemo on August 17, 2015, 09:09:40 am

Auks very seldom have a drip of sweat run down into their eye from the brow.

I do, almost constantly.

Perhaps I should knit myself a headband.
Headbands give you funny sun tan lines on your head  :P ;D

I bought one. When Laurant Fignon won the tour.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Ningishzidda on August 17, 2015, 10:26:03 am

Auks very seldom have a drip of sweat run down into their eye from the brow.

I do, almost constantly.

Perhaps I should knit myself a headband.
Headbands give you funny sun tan lines on your head  :P ;D

I bought one. When Laurant Fignon won the tour.

Not as funny as a bald bloke in a Banana hat.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: hillbilly on August 18, 2015, 01:26:44 pm
Currently wondering if Steve will get PBP validated.  ACP regulations retain the traditional wording that it is not possible to participate in another event at the same time as a BRM.  Did he get special dispensation from ACP?
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: mattc on August 18, 2015, 05:32:42 pm
based on a few clues this week, I'm almost certain ACP know about HAMR and are being helpful.
remember; French rules are not as equal as others!

(but if he doesnt get validated I can't see Steve caring much.)
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Wobbly John on August 18, 2015, 09:44:46 pm
With all this restart and PBP excitement, we seem to have overlooked that Teethgrinder has passed the halfway point to Tommy Godwin's total mileage.  :)

Go Steve!
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Ningishzidda on August 19, 2015, 07:50:48 am
Steve rode PBP so ACP can boast next year "New HAM'R record holder rode our event."

In French of course, or something like "Paris-Brest-Paris helps new HAM'R record holder on his way to victory. Shame he's a Ros-biff."
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Legs on August 19, 2015, 09:44:47 am
I can't help but think that, although he is slightly ahead of THE GODWIN LINE, Miles is not in a position to be effectively challenging Godwin or Tarzan.  If his intention is to shadow Godwin's mileages throughout the year, he's got a bit of a struggle ahead of him to match the 300+ mile days - nothing he's done in this attempt or the last has convinced me that he has the speed and consistency to do that (but I would love to be proved wrong).
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: red marley on August 19, 2015, 10:01:50 am
I agree with your assessment, although I'm not sure which Godwin line you are referring to. Currently he is 700 miles or so behind Godwin's actual distance by day 63 and around 3,800 miles behind Godwin's WR pace. I can't see much evidence that he'll be able to catch up from this position.

Miles faces a tough job in that he has less public attention than Steve and Kurt. He's doing impressive distances by normal standards, but is eclipsed by the other two. Being in the same age category as Kurt, he probably won't even get the satisfaction of leading in his age group. However, if he were to prove us wrong, it would make for a dramatic and exciting story for the OYTT.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: hillbilly on August 19, 2015, 10:25:38 am
Just goes to show how tough this challenge is.  3,800miles over 300 days is an extra 12 to 13 miles a day over Godwin's WR pace.  Or another 45 minutes (or thereabouts) on the bike.  Doesn't sound like much, but it broadly means Miles beginning to do and maintaining the distance that Kurt is currently banging out in "summer" conditions.  I'm guessing he remains confident he can do it, even if to some of us it feels beyond what is possible.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Legs on August 19, 2015, 11:37:43 am
I agree with your assessment, although I'm not sure which Godwin line you are referring to. Currently he is 700 miles or so Godwin's actual distance by day 63 and around 3,800 miles behind Godwin's WR pace. I can't see much evidence that he'll be able to catch up from this position.

Miles faces a tough job in that he has less public attention than Steve and Kurt. He's doing impressive distances by normal standards, but is eclipsed by the other two. Being in the same age category as Kurt, he probably won't even get the satisfaction of leading in his age group. However, if he were to prove us wrong, it would make for a dramatic and exciting story for the OYTT.

Oops, my bad, I was looking at the graphs and of course I was only seeing where Miles was on Day 16 relative to The Godwin Line (by which I meant what Godwin actually achieved, not his year-averaged pace).  Since you've stopped showing the entire year on one graph, I'd lost track of how much mileage Miles was losing to the others and even to The Godwin Line.  I'd given up following him on Strava because he was clogging up my news feed with 0-milers.  Goodness, it really doesn't look great for him.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: danridesbikes on August 19, 2015, 04:08:34 pm
did any one notice in one of kurts videos - i think it was the one with the bin lorry nearly taking him out  :o

i don't know if it was tongue in cheek, but he said he was going to finish in California so he could get an extra 3 hours riding in

that within the rules?
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: mattc on August 19, 2015, 04:31:19 pm
Do you REALLY want an answer to that, Dan?!?
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: danridesbikes on August 19, 2015, 07:13:08 pm
yes REALLY  ::-)
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: jochta on August 19, 2015, 07:54:01 pm
The weather has really been against Miles the past month or so but as in his first attempt I'm finding it hard to take this attempt seriously yet either. He's falling behind and has shown little evidence of being able to bang out the huge distances consistently that will be required.

Kurt on the other hand is a machine, very impressed with his consistency over the past few months. Barring disaster he's got it in the bag.

Steve (x2) will depend on how benign Autumn 2015 and Winter 2015/16 is. I hope he can get a good buffer of miles under his belt before any prolonged bad weather. I've noticed that his daily mileage is considerably lower than even his most pessimistic schedule for mid-August though. But that schedule looks to have been way too optimistic now?

Kurt's straight line tactic appears to be the "winning" formula for the moment.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: jochta on August 19, 2015, 07:55:14 pm
did any one notice in one of kurts videos - i think it was the one with the bin lorry nearly taking him out  :o

i don't know if it was tongue in cheek, but he said he was going to finish in California so he could get an extra 3 hours riding in

that within the rules?

He can ride for no more than 24hrs a day wherever he is.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Mr Larrington on August 19, 2015, 10:09:27 pm
I imagine he could take advantage of the different time zones across USAnia and gain an hour, but anything requiring crossing multiple zones is going to need a plane or long car journey.  But I rather think that by that time twenty-odd miles isn't going to make a huge difference  ;D
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Arry-R on August 19, 2015, 10:44:57 pm
Yes you are right Steve needs to up his mileage if possible? ??
he looked really knackered on PBP and couldn't really speak very well.

 :facepalm: :facepalm: ??? ???
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Wobbly on August 21, 2015, 08:53:08 pm
he looked really knackered on PBP and couldn't really speak very well.

 :facepalm: :facepalm: ??? ???

Eh?
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: mattc on September 06, 2015, 05:35:01 pm
Is there a rebooted schedule?
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Arry-R on September 06, 2015, 06:20:50 pm
I have asked but there doesn't seem to be

 :facepalm:

Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Basil on September 06, 2015, 06:41:05 pm
Not a grumble, but it is difficult to remain engaged with so little information for the "crowd".
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: mattc on September 06, 2015, 06:46:45 pm
I'm pretty sure Steve has some rough figures in his mind, but I was wondering if anything firm-ish had been published.

( It must be difficult to sort such things out when you're tired/broken/on-the-mend/riding. )
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: TimC on September 06, 2015, 10:54:48 pm
My guess is that Steve has learned a lot from both Kurt's approach and his own difficulties, and has come to realise that the 240-260 mile days he originally planned for the summer are just not likely to be practicable at the speeds he's able to reliably maintain and the sleep he needs. Therefore a more workable 210-230 mile schedule in the better weather, reducing to a 180-190 mile schedule in the worst of the winter, may give him more chance of making the reboot attemprt work to beat Tommy. Whether that's enough to beat Kurt is another matter entirely.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Arry-R on September 07, 2015, 08:46:20 am
Not a grumble, but it is difficult to remain engaged with so little information for the "crowd".


Agreed
 :facepalm:
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Arry-R on September 07, 2015, 08:54:47 am
My guess is that Steve has learned a lot from both Kurt's approach and his own difficulties, and has come to realise that the 240-260 mile days he originally planned for the summer are just not likely to be practicable at the speeds he's able to reliably maintain and the sleep he needs. Therefore a more workable 210-230 mile schedule in the better weather, reducing to a 180-190 mile schedule in the worst of the winter, may give him more chance of making the reboot attemprt work to beat Tommy. Whether that's enough to beat Kurt is another matter entirely.

Let us all hope that with this week's weather expected to be ideal let us hope he can start real mile eating.
In the 6 days of Sept he has averaged some 211 mls a day.  In August sadly (partly cos of PBP lurgy) he only averaged about 191 mls a day.  I hope but I do not see the average getting to the daily average of the 206 needed for a few weeks,  hopefully by the end of Sept.  what do the rest of you envisage?

 :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: LEE on September 07, 2015, 11:26:52 am
he looked really knackered on PBP and couldn't really speak very well.

 :facepalm: :facepalm: ??? ???

Eh?

I rode with Steve for an hour on PBP, around lunchtime on day 2.  He was yawning continually.

This is understandable when you realise he'd cycled straight from Dieppe, onto the start-line and into PBP, basically adding 200km to the start of his PBP.  He would have then ridden immediately into the night.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: hillbilly on September 07, 2015, 12:12:25 pm
what do the rest of you envisage?

I think Steve that when the clocks go forward still will have got to a point where his is averaging just over the Godwin pace (complete guess: he will max out at 210 miles a day average) and will maintain that differential for as long as the weather holds out and then drift beneath it, but always within the realistic realm to make up the deficit in the Spring/Summer (if he keeps fit and well).

I suspect one of the benefits of his current approach, where he starts later in the morning, is that, come winter, the frost and fog will have a better chance of melting away by the time he starts.  The trade off is riding later into the blackened hours, but I imagine that works better psychologically (I think it makes a different if you start in light and end in dark, as opposed to starting and finishing in the dark).

But all a guess.  Steve is in uncharted territory for 21st century cyclists.

The unknown is whether he will be above or below the Seavogel line.  Kurt is doing a proper job on the record, and I'd guess he will end a couple of 1000 miles beyond where Godwin ended up, all being well.  That sounds a lot, but translates to 5 miles or so more a day on average that Godwin.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Arry-R on September 07, 2015, 02:11:24 pm
A well thought out reply Hillbilly - many thanks.
 :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Arry-R on September 07, 2015, 06:47:19 pm
Hillbilly what I should have posted was:-
What a crock of sheer brilliance!   (You are a master with your words)
 :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: toontra on September 08, 2015, 09:08:52 am
Following on from Roger's resignation as money man, I'm wondering how many others in the support team will feel able to continue for another 8 months, and will there be other "casualties"?

As I write this, I am not entirely clear who actually is actively part of the support team, as there seems to be some kind of omertà in place which restricts the flow of information to us for fear of "aiding the enemy".
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: LittleWheelsandBig on September 08, 2015, 09:28:13 am
There were several changes in the team early on but Roger is the most recent and highest profile.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Aunt Maud on September 08, 2015, 09:31:34 am
Is an open forum the best place to talk about it ?

(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: TimC on September 08, 2015, 11:35:51 pm
Is an open forum the best place to talk about it ?

(click to show/hide)

Given that most of Steve's financial supporters are probably members of this forum, I think it probably is appropriately discussed here.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Exit Stage Left on September 08, 2015, 11:46:02 pm
Following on from Roger's resignation as money man, I'm wondering how many others in the support team will feel able to continue for another 8 months, and will there be other "casualties"?

As I write this, I am not entirely clear who actually is actively part of the support team, as there seems to be some kind of omertà in place which restricts the flow of information to us for fear of "aiding the enemy".

i would imagine that it's Jo's summation of the data that presents the most problems. It's a very handy tool for seeing if you're on target.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Fidgetbuzz on September 08, 2015, 11:59:11 pm
I dont think that most financial support has come from YACF members ( might be wrong )--  if you look at the donor list - there are 700 one off donors and 200 standing order donors --where i think you would be right is that the most passionate supporters are on YACF.

By choice I would have  kept passionate supporters well informed of what is going on -- there were original plans for a regular newsletter ( monthly i think) -- but this has fallen by the wayside as nobody was willing or able to do it.

And so passionate knowledgeable supporters are ill informed (even though  we have a better  understanding of the demands of extreme distances than 99.5% of the population ).

But that is the way that the attempt has been run -- obviously Steve himself does not have the  time to communicate with supporters
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: TimC on September 09, 2015, 12:07:05 am
You've already said, Roger, that Steve probably has enough money now to see him through to the end of the concurrent attempt, so I guess the point is moot and the remaining team have no need to consider the feelings and desires of the knowledgeable and passionate supporters, but I think that's a bloody shame. It does kind of feel like our money has been taken without adequate acknowledgement. I wouldn't put any of that on Steve - his job is to ride the bike, and nothing else, and that is an enormous workload. I just don't get the 'knowledge is power, and you're not having it' attitude that seems to have become the culture of the team.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Arry-R on September 09, 2015, 12:29:32 am
You've already said, Roger, that Steve probably has enough money now to see him through to the end of the concurrent attempt, so I guess the point is moot and the remaining team have no need to consider the feelings and desires of the knowledgeable and passionate supporters, but I think that's a bloody shame. It does kind of feel like our money has been taken without adequate acknowledgement. I wouldn't put any of that on Steve - his job is to ride the bike, and nothing else, and that is an enormous workload. I just don't get the 'knowledge is power, and you're not having it' attitude that seems to have become the culture of the team.

Well said TimC

 :facepalm:
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Aunt Maud on September 09, 2015, 06:01:03 am
Is an open forum the best place to talk about it ?

(click to show/hide)

Given that most of Steve's financial supporters are probably members of this forum, I think it probably is appropriately discussed here.

No it's not and I think you may have misunderstood my reply to LWaB. I wasn't referring to the lack of communication to the YACF supporters by the team during Steve's attempt, or to how the team has been run, but to the changes made in the team during the period just before Steve started and as it involves me it's not for public consumption.

If you want to question all the other stuff, then go ahead, but my involvement in the team and the internal politics at that time doesn't get discussed here.

I would however like to take this opportunity to thank the AUK, YACF and other supporters for their generosity when Mike and I were setting up the register for the hosts.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Martin on September 09, 2015, 10:19:57 am
The fact is the only thanks I've received for any of my donations was from FB; so I presume this will now stop (and no I don't think this is an inappropriate place to discuss this, it's not an exclusively yacf nor AUK challenge)

If there's enough in the kitty to keep TG going for another 12 months excellent, and best of luck to the team to keep that money rolling in.

Just remember in terms of a level playing field Kurt is entirely self funded according to the interview he shared on YouTube, there will be no 8 month extension for him.

Go Steve!
Go Kurt!
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Jaded on September 10, 2015, 12:37:16 pm
To be fair though, Kurt hasn't had his ankle broken by a drunk mopedist.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Wheels of Fire on September 10, 2015, 01:19:34 pm
Watching with great interest Steve's progress over the last 8 months, I fear that his chance of success whilst staying in the British Isles is fairly low.

I am not an audax rider (yet) and I don't pretend to know how someone can ride these distances day in, day out. When Steve didn't ride with (fast) pacers during the summer, he was always going to drop way behind Tommy Godwin. Now, he seems to be following a more 'Kurt-like' approach of days around the 220 mile point, which seems sensible. But... this is going to be really tough to keep up as daylight fades and temperatures drop.

What he needs is a mate with a time-share in Calpe, and cheap flights to Alicante and Novemer to February pedalling up and down the Spanish coast.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Chris S on September 10, 2015, 01:41:10 pm
It has been said before, but it's worth saying over and over. Kurt has Alicia, right there - all day, every day. Kurt doesn't need to do anything except ride bikes (which he does really well); Alicia is always there with food, PR, films, and MTFU kicks out of the RV's door.

That's a team with success written all over it, right there.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: mrcharly-YHT on September 10, 2015, 01:48:07 pm
When Steve didn't ride with (fast) pacers during the summer, he was always going to drop way behind Tommy Godwin.

The current expert in Tommy Godwin says Tommy didn't have any pacers either.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: mattc on September 10, 2015, 03:09:16 pm
It has been said before, but it's worth saying over and over. Kurt has Alicia, right there - all day, every day. Kurt doesn't need to do anything except ride bikes (which he does really well); Alicia is always there with food, PR, films, and MTFU kicks out of the RV's door.

That's a team with success written all over it, right there.
Yup.

Quite a high-risk strategy though - it's a lot of strain to put on a relationship. If Alicia just decides to drive herself to California one day, Kurt would not be in a good situation. Fortunately this hasn't happened yet  :thumbsup:

Steve went very low-risk; he had plans in place to do everything himself if needed. Ride from home every day. Fix his own bikes. Look after himself - just as he did in his last record-breaking year.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: TimC on September 10, 2015, 05:11:33 pm
Is an open forum the best place to talk about it ?

(click to show/hide)

Given that most of Steve's financial supporters are probably members of this forum, I think it probably is appropriately discussed here.

No it's not and I think you may have misunderstood my reply to LWaB. I wasn't referring to the lack of communication to the YACF supporters by the team during Steve's attempt, or to how the team has been run, but to the changes made in the team during the period just before Steve started and as it involves me it's not for public consumption.

If you want to question all the other stuff, then go ahead, but my involvement in the team and the internal politics at that time doesn't get discussed here.

I would however like to take this opportunity to thank the AUK, YACF and other supporters for their generosity when Mike and I were setting up the register for the hosts.

Ah - sorry, AM, I had no idea about any of that, so obviously that's not what I was on about.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Aunt Maud on September 10, 2015, 06:21:43 pm
That's OK TimC, you weren't to know.

Obviously that shouldn't stop you airing your opinion about all the other stuff though.

Cheers AM.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Arry-R on September 13, 2015, 07:49:45 am
with Steve having covered 7100 miles on the concurrent attempt he needs only average 207 miles a day and he could well beat 75065. Let's all hope he survives the rigors of Winter and tiredness.

his mileage this year is some 42833 miles.  With an average of 206 a day he will do around another 21942 which should see him achieve 64775 by the end of December.  I believe he will set a record for his age group.

well done Steve and keep going.
 :thumbsup:

Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: hillbilly on September 13, 2015, 08:29:07 am
It's noticeable that there is less buzz now. I wonder if it is because whilst people respect what is being attempted, it has a more quixotic feel about it.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: red marley on September 13, 2015, 08:37:07 am
Arry-R, not sure the arithmetic there is quite right. Steve has 110 days left in 2015. 206 mpd for the remaining time would leave him with around 65,500 for the year. Although to have any chance of eventually beating Kurt's likely total he'd need to be doing more than that this year.

A useful minimum target for his 2015 total would be Bernard Bennett's 1939 distance of 65,127 miles. That would likely give Steve a podium position behind Tommy's and Kurt's totals.

Steve has stated he might expect some of his longest distance days to be ridden this autumn into winter. There is considerable risk from the weather though, especially unfavourable winds. I imagine the network of places to stay with volunteers would be helpful in that respect so he is not forced to make every ride a MK-based loop.

I'm not sure where the capacity for longer distances is likely to be. Looking at his daily movement patterns, he has already managed to shrink his stopped time to one lunch stop and a short teatime stop. Perhaps lengthening his day by 30 minutes might do it, but I know he is acutely aware that he can't accumulate fatigue through loss of sleep. His daily average moving speed seems to be hovering between 15.5-16.5 mph which is about as fast as it has been during the whole challenge and I don't see much scope to improve that given that he must be as fit now as he will ever be.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: LittleWheelsandBig on September 13, 2015, 08:48:13 am
The easiest option is for Steve to shorten his lunch stop. That would require eating on the bike, which might need somebody handing him up a musette of food (including a thermos/ bidon of hot soup during winter?).
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: rabbit on September 13, 2015, 11:00:50 am
I'm going to go out and say it:

There just is not enough publicity and feedback to the supporters and sponsors about Steve, his daily progress/feelings/comments and what's going on.  In our modern society we have 24/7 news and we are used to over-analysis of 'the famouses'. I'm glad there is enough money in the kitty to sustain Steve to do what he has always wanted and attempt to break the Godwin record, but I suspect there will be a good number of people who do not continue their SOs and even some who may pull theirs early. 

When there are charities asking for money to feed starving children, keep the air ambulances in flight, save the donkeys etc etc etc, it may become difficult to support a cause that is starting to look one that is severely lacking support.  This is not necessarily my opinion, but it is how it is beginning to appear from the outside world. 

If I was Raleigh, Hope or one of the other big sponsors who had provided kit, I would be also rather mortified by the lack of publicity. Of course they may be perfectly happy with the situation, who knows (well indeed, who does know, as we have heard nothing). The pro riders I know all have to work exceptionally hard not just looking after their fitness and health, but in a 'political' manner to ensure that their sponsors get the thanks they deserve by coverage through social media.  That's the nature of people giving you stuff/money for free and it's the way the world works. 

Kurt and Alicia have this dialled, with the regular updates and it makes the supporters 'feel part' of their attempt.  A bit like the Olympics - it's rarely the performances that get people supporting, it's the post run interviews, the pre-race 'look at their training day' documentaries, the reminders of career up and downs that allow people to feel empathy with their cause.

Lets not forget, the harsh reality is, the vast majority of people in this world don't have the luxury of other people giving them money so they can follow their dream and become top level athletes/record breakers/sponsored professionals.  Most people have to grind out a day to day existence until the day they die.  Even in the UK, with our disposable incomes, growing middle class, luxury lifestyles, there are still starving children and families living in poverty through lack of education/poor parenting/bad luck/drug addiction.

If you are going to have the luxury of following a dream on other people's funding in the modern world, it is an unwritten rule that news and feedback is part of the deal and Steve's team should deal with this.  Or maybe Steve should get himself a new team.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Jaded on September 13, 2015, 12:58:32 pm
The funding is tiny, the sponsors are donating very little relatively. Three bikes? That's a drip in a blip in the ocean for the marketing budget of a decent company.
Besides, the story here is completing the target, not the grinding out of every mile.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: LMT on September 13, 2015, 01:07:19 pm
You would expect more from his team bearing in mind that he has got someone for PR (Idai). I've said from early on that Steve's strategy for the attempt was wrong, attempting to break 'the 'Tommy Godwin record' rather than the 'Highest Annual Mileage record'. You'd think they are one and the same but they are not. Kurt from the off was looking to break the latter heading off down to Florida and the flatlands, whilst  Steve was attempting to break the former carving his way on an out and back out West to Tewkesbury, taking in a fair amount of elevation because this was in the 'spirit of the record'. Attempting to raise this moot point following on from a partisan OP undermining Kurt's record attempt by FB saw me as the villain and the ensuring witch hunt that followed was not particularly nice - or called for, but it would appear I was right all along with Steve now heading to the flatlands day after day. I fear it may be in vain though, Kurt is more consistent with his timings, speed and rest. Will Steve keep this up and break the a record in eleven months time? Time will tell but the implied goings on from FB posts (following his resignation) don't look optimistic to me (wrt to the team).
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Jaded on September 13, 2015, 01:43:31 pm
Time will tell but the implied goings on from FB posts (following his resignation) don't look optimistic to me (wrt to the team).
You sound like you are really enjoying it  ;D  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: LMT on September 13, 2015, 01:59:26 pm
Time will tell but the implied goings on from FB posts (following his resignation) don't look optimistic to me (wrt to the team).
You sound like you are really enjoying it  ;D  :thumbsup:

No more then seeing Wobbly making a botch job of his Pashley with a rubber matlet on PBP. Karma's a bitch when you tell someone to 'fuck off' on a public forum. :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Aunt Maud on September 13, 2015, 02:01:31 pm


No more then seeing Wobbly making a botch job of his Pashley with a rubber matlet on PBP.

That was a proper A grade lump hammer, I'll have you know.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Wobbly on September 13, 2015, 02:36:52 pm
That was a proper A grade lump hammer, I'll have you know.

And expertly wielded too Maud. My thanks, as always.  :thumbsup:

As for LMT and Assasin and anyone else that wants to make snide comments I'd be delighted to discuss it face to face with you. Anytime.  :)

Anyway, back to Steve...

Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Arry-R on September 13, 2015, 06:27:04 pm
Arry-R, not sure the arithmetic there is quite right. Steve has 110 days left in 2015. 206 mpd for the remaining time would leave him with around 65,500 for the year.

Steve has stated he might expect some of his longest distance days to be ridden this autumn into winter. There is considerable risk from the weather though, especially unfavourable winds. I imagine the network of places to stay with volunteers would be helpful in that respect so he is not forced to make every ride a MK-based loop.

I'm not sure where the capacity for longer distances is likely to be. Looking at his daily movement patterns, he has already managed to shrink his stopped time to one lunch stop and a short teatime stop. Perhaps lengthening his day by 30 minutes might do it, but I know he is acutely aware that he can't accumulate fatigue through loss of sleep. His daily average moving speed seems to be hovering between 15.5-16.5 mph which is about as fast as it has been during the whole challenge and I don't see much scope to improve that given that he must be as fit now as he will ever be.


Thanks Jo my maths were indeed out

He seems to have gone off hosting arrangements or the coordination of it is lacking? ? we know not.


I am not sure where the extra capacity is going to come from for longer mileage days either as without building up a surplus for the winter it isn't good.  The 360 mls (under the averaged of 206 per day) has to be clawed back soon rather than later!

Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Arry-R on September 13, 2015, 06:32:00 pm
It's noticeable that there is less buzz now. I wonder if it is because whilst people respect what is being attempted, it has a more quixotic feel about it.


I fear its because of his 200-210 mls a day compared with expected 240 a day (lower limit)
I hope all of us here regulars maintain our interest and support which I am sure we shall.  The charts that Jo has done are much appreciated please keep them coming.
well done to all supporters.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Arry-R on September 13, 2015, 06:43:56 pm
I'm going to go out and say it:

There just is not enough publicity and feedback to the supporters and sponsors about Steve, his daily progress/feelings/comments and what's going on.  In our modern society we have 24/7 news and we are used to over-analysis of 'the famouses'. I'm glad there is enough money in the kitty to sustain Steve to do what he has always wanted and attempt to break the Godwin record, but I suspect there will be a good number of people who do not continue their SOs and even some who may pull theirs early. 

When there are charities asking for money to feed starving children, keep the air ambulances in flight, save the donkeys etc etc etc, it may become difficult to support a cause that is starting to look one that is severely lacking support.  This is not necessarily my opinion, but it is how it is beginning to appear from the outside world. 

If I was Raleigh, Hope or one of the other big sponsors who had provided kit, I would be also rather mortified by the lack of publicity. Of course they may be perfectly happy with the situation, who knows (well indeed, who does know, as we have heard nothing). The pro riders I know all have to work exceptionally hard not just looking after their fitness and health, but in a 'political' manner to ensure that their sponsors get the thanks they deserve by coverage through social media.  That's the nature of people giving you stuff/money for free and it's the way the world works. 

Kurt and Alicia have this dialled, with the regular updates and it makes the supporters 'feel part' of their attempt.  A bit like the Olympics - it's rarely the performances that get people supporting, it's the post run interviews, the pre-race 'look at their training day' documentaries, the reminders of career up and downs that allow people to feel empathy with their cause.

Lets not forget, the harsh reality is, the vast majority of people in this world don't have the luxury of other people giving them money so they can follow their dream and become top level athletes/record breakers/sponsored professionals.  Most people have to grind out a day to day existence until the day they die.  Even in the UK, with our disposable incomes, growing middle class, luxury lifestyles, there are still starving children and families living in poverty through lack of education/poor parenting/bad luck/drug addiction.

If you are going to have the luxury of following a dream on other people's funding in the modern world, it is an unwritten rule that news and feedback is part of the deal and Steve's team should deal with this.  Or maybe Steve should get himself a new team.
[/quot


Rabbit.  well done on your posting and very good it was too.   Perhaps Steve would wish to have more pro active team members but he hasn't the time to deal with anything other than miles and miles day after day.
Sadly without Roger "we're doomed I tell yee"
" !!

Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Aunt Maud on September 13, 2015, 06:53:45 pm


He seems to have gone off hosting arrangements or the coordination of it is lacking? ? we know not.



Mike, who organised the hosts, has moved to Malaysia.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: mattc on September 13, 2015, 07:08:26 pm


He seems to have gone off hosting arrangements or the coordination of it is lacking? ? we know not.



Mike, who organised the hosts, has moved to Malaysia.
I'm sure someone on this thread will soon tell us what bad planning this was, how Kurt's team wouldnt do such a thing,  blahblahblah ...
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Wobbly on September 13, 2015, 07:10:44 pm


He seems to have gone off hosting arrangements or the coordination of it is lacking? ? we know not.



Mike, who organised the hosts, has moved to Malaysia.

News to me (a host) but might explain why I haven't heard much from the team for a while.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: mattc on September 13, 2015, 07:13:30 pm
Suggest you contact the Crew Chief to clarify the sitrep - make him do some work!
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: LittleWheelsandBig on September 13, 2015, 07:14:52 pm
Good luck with talking to the Crew Chief and getting any sense back.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: SoreTween on September 13, 2015, 09:14:21 pm
He seems to have gone off hosting arrangements or the coordination of it is lacking? ? we know not.
Mike, who organised the hosts, has moved to Malaysia.
News to me (a host) but might explain why I haven't heard much from the team for a while.
Hmmm, there be movement.  The Hosts Organiser was still listed on Steve's web site earlier this week and isn't any longer.  FB has been removed too, I'm guessing we can probably thank FB for the kick in the wotsits Steve's web man clearly received.  Calendar has been cleared, donations page hasn't changed.  Concurrent total added.  There was a routes master listed earlier in the year, he's disappeared at some point too.

Glad to see some movement  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: toontra on September 13, 2015, 09:29:33 pm
In terms of administrative communication, this is beginning to remind me of run-up to LEL 2009.

I suppose another thing to consider is that Steve himself may not want too much focus or outside attention on the attempt for fear it puts more pressure on him, especially if he isn't totally convinced that he can actually break the record (which he is recently on record as stating).

Tarzan's higher profile, on the other hand, maybe suggests that he thinks the record is realistically achievable, and he is going full-throttle for it and is therefore happy for everyone to be in on it.

But again this is pure supposition.

Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Bianchi Boy on September 13, 2015, 09:31:42 pm
The easiest option is for Steve to shorten his lunch stop. That would require eating on the bike, which might need somebody handing him up a musette of food (including a thermos/ bidon of hot soup during winter?).

I fear logic has left the room.

BB
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: red marley on September 13, 2015, 09:36:12 pm
I suppose another thing to consider is that Steve himself may not want too much focus or outside attention on the attempt for fear it puts more pressure on him, especially if he isn't convinced that he can actually break the record (which he is recently on record as stating).

I think the point about undue pressure is a good one. While well meaning, some of the comments here along the lines of "only 205 miles, pick it up a bit!" may not be what he needs to hear from us. He is well aware of his schedules and what he is capable of doing day-by-day. Certainly more than we are.

BTW, Ian H seems to be more positive about the functioning of the support team (as reported on CycleChat).
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Bianchi Boy on September 13, 2015, 09:47:27 pm
Hi,

Just some thoughts.

1. The reason why records are there is because they are hard. Success is not a given.

2. We should stop obsessing about the feed back we get from the "team". I give no time to this attempt, I have admiration for those who do.

3. There is little or nothing we can do about Steve's speed except organise support riders. This may happen on exceptional occasions, but not really often enough to aid the mileage, but may help Steve's state of mind.

4. We are all supporters and that is why we are posting here.

5. There is a tone of superiority from some that I feel is not founded from some posters. This is off putting and I wonder if the people who I reference are self aware enough to realise the way they come over.

6. Go Steve  :thumbsup:

BB
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Arry-R on September 13, 2015, 11:51:10 pm


He seems to have gone off hosting arrangements or the coordination of it is lacking? ? we know not.



Mike, who organised the hosts, has moved to Malaysia.

Ahhh so that's where Mike Wallis is now - thanks for this info - I hadn't heard before!
 ???
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: teethgrinder on September 14, 2015, 09:20:33 am
Lack of media coverage is sort of deliberate.
Those interviews with the press are a lot of work to plan and if done very well will cost at least 10 miles.
I can't afford to throw that kind of mileage away.
It can only be done on the road with a cycling journalist who rides with me (which has been done twice)
An accompanying motor vehicle would need to comply with UMCA rules or risk getting me disqualified and there is a lot of hassle there.
Simply put, talking costs miles.

After the event, in August next year, everyone can have what they want from me. I'll be out of work so will have time for interviews etc. But now is the time for me to keep riding.

There should be a short film out soon from last night. Even that meant a late start today. Today will be a strategicaly low mileage. Yesterday was pretty good in good conditions but the wind is going to make things tricky today.
Even that short film took a lot of work. My going away for the weekend stuffed up the original plans but I had to do it to get the best mileage I could.

Travelodging seems to be better than hosting. It opens up my options a lot more so I can use the best roads for the wind conditions rather than have to do loops into headwinds etc


Mileage 20 miles up on last week and those 20 miles were done with 20 minutes more riding time, so must be getting faster too, though the last 2 days were very good conditions.
Current aim is to build up on what I am doing I expect it to happen very slowly.
Still have the post PBP lurking in the background too so I still need to be a bit carefull.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: tonyh on September 14, 2015, 09:31:22 am
Masterly work Steve, both the riding (as ever) and the writing (as ever; straight to the various points, very clear and valuable to us supporters.)

Hope it didn't cost you a lot of miles.
All the best for today, however the mileage turns out.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: CrazyEnglishTriathlete on September 14, 2015, 10:21:16 am
Lack of media coverage is sort of deliberate.
Those interviews with the press are a lot of work to plan and if done very well will cost at least 10 miles.
I can't afford to throw that kind of mileage away.
It can only be done on the road with a cycling journalist who rides with me (which has been done twice)
An accompanying motor vehicle would need to comply with UMCA rules or risk getting me disqualified and there is a lot of hassle there.
Simply put, talking costs miles.

After the event, in August next year, everyone can have what they want from me. I'll be out of work so will have time for interviews etc. But now is the time for me to keep riding.

There should be a short film out soon from last night. Even that meant a late start today. Today will be a strategicaly low mileage. Yesterday was pretty good in good conditions but the wind is going to make things tricky today.
Even that short film took a lot of work. My going away for the weekend stuffed up the original plans but I had to do it to get the best mileage I could.

Travelodging seems to be better than hosting. It opens up my options a lot more so I can use the best roads for the wind conditions rather than have to do loops into headwinds etc


Mileage 20 miles up on last week and those 20 miles were done with 20 minutes more riding time, so must be getting faster too, though the last 2 days were very good conditions.
Current aim is to build up on what I am doing I expect it to happen very slowly.
Still have the post PBP lurking in the background too so I still need to be a bit carefull.


Good luck Steve.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Polar Bear on September 14, 2015, 10:41:41 am
As ever, Steve's post is positive, concise, well thought through and full of common sense.  Would be nice to read more supportive rather than gloomy posts from contributors here.   Must be wearing for Steve to deal with such negativity.

Roll on Steve.

Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: LittleWheelsandBig on September 14, 2015, 11:11:10 am
Steve shouldn't have to deal with these things and take away from his riding time. All he should need to do is talk to his team (by phone, while he is riding) and they should make things happen.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Jaded on September 14, 2015, 11:43:55 am
He certainly doesn't need Energy Vampires.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Ningishzidda on September 14, 2015, 12:36:12 pm
^  :thumbsup:


‘Uniformed Lawmen Energy Vampires’

Being stopped by the police.


‘Paralytic Zombie Energy Vampires’.

Drunkards in the road.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Mileater on September 14, 2015, 04:04:13 pm
I'd just like to know who really is in charge of this record attempt?

Is Steve just winging it on  his own, with the occasional bit of home support from his pals in MK?
If so... fine... that may well work for Steve to just keep it as uncomplicated by others as possible.
But to maintain the charade that there is a 'crew' with a 'crew chief' implies there's some kind of organization, when in fact very little appears to be happening.

But, I can well understand why a host system would not be a good option... as a rando it's way faster just to crash at hotels than to show up at people's houses and be a guest. Chatting takes time away from sleep, and is very appealing after being alone all day. It's hard for both cyclist and host to resist!

But... I think it's time for this 'team' to show themselves and explain what it is they are really doing for Steve. Particularly the crew chief. We've seen no signs of participation/help happening from that quarter.  ???
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: aoxomoxoa on September 14, 2015, 04:35:37 pm

But, I can well understand why a host system would not be a good option... as a rando it's way faster just to crash at hotels than to show up at people's houses and be a guest. Chatting takes time away from sleep, and is very appealing after being alone all day. It's hard for both cyclist and host to resist!


On the other hand the advantage of being hosted is that the host can upload data, sort out the bike and recharge batteries etc for the next day. Otherwise Steve has to do it himself when he could be eating, washing, sleeping etc.  So swings and roundabouts...
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Wobbly on September 14, 2015, 04:45:44 pm
A host should:

A good host should be much better than a random h/motel
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: TimC on September 14, 2015, 05:14:06 pm
If the team was functioning as ideally as we'd all like, Steve would never have to venture on any forum, nor answer any emails, or be responsible for anything other than riding the bike. That's probably a bit much to hope for given that I'm sure the team have their own lives to lead, and I'm pretty sure they're not able to be available 24/7 as Alicia is with Kurt. It would seem the bikes are getting serviced, so that's one major thing off Steve's mind, and Roger leads us to believe that money isn't currently a worry. I can totally see why road hotels are better than hosts in that there need be no prearrangement, which may be a bigger factor in Steve's daily routing decisions than getting someone else to do uploads, wash kit and provide sausages. I'd love to see someone providing a blog-style commentary, but that's a big commitment and would need perhaps unwelcome intrusion into Steve's bubble.

We're very fortunate here on YACF that we have Jo's excellent visualisations and Steve's occasional direct comms (which are worth their weight in gold!) to help us keep up with progress. It would be good to see a little more movement on the website and FB pages, but if it can't be, so be it. The thirst for information is understandable because the challenge is fascinating and literally awesome, and we've been spoiled a bit by Alicia's communications about Kurt which probably fit more neatly into the way we like to consume news these days. I know I've been a bit critical in the past, and I will continue to wish for a better PR effort on Steve's behalf, but the important thing is he can get out there every day and do what he does. If things off the bike start to affect the riding, then I'm sure there will be more of us who can step up and help in some small way.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: LittleWheelsandBig on September 14, 2015, 05:27:55 pm
Yes, quite a few of us could step up and help but that can't happen unless Steve or his crew actually communicate and maybe even ask for some assistance. I don't see that happening, as it stands.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: TimC on September 14, 2015, 05:30:59 pm
Yes, for whatever reason and as Roger has alluded, YACF isn't held in high regard by (some of) Steve's team, so I guess we won't get that call unless Steve makes it himself. Which I'm sure he would do if he felt it was necessary.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Shreds on September 14, 2015, 08:06:36 pm
YACF isn't held in high regard by (some of) Steve's team,

For those of us following on a daily basis, it is largely our main form of update. Can anyone explain why YACF is looked down upon by some of the team?
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Canardly on September 14, 2015, 08:57:51 pm
Interesting question.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: TimC on September 14, 2015, 09:31:49 pm
YACF isn't held in high regard by (some of) Steve's team,

For those of us following on a daily basis, it is largely our main form of update. Can anyone explain why YACF is looked down upon by some of the team?

Well, I've nothing to do with any of them so I've no idea - I'm only going on what Roger has said. But I did wonder if there's a feeling that YACF has kind of adopted Steve and his quest - which is not surprising as he's a prominent AUK and so many of his fellow AUK luminaries are prolific contributors here, and from the time when Steve first proposed the idea here, it's been seen by us at YACF as a family thing. Maybe the team felt we were stepping on their toes?
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Wowbagger on September 14, 2015, 09:43:55 pm
IIRC, although Steve has been aware of this record for a long time, it was a post by Hellymedic, closely followed by others, that encouraged Steve in his pursuit of this particular eccentricity. My impression was that, although it had been in his mind for some time, it was on YACF that the Word was made Flesh.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Bianchi Boy on September 14, 2015, 09:52:47 pm
I have followed Kurt and Steve and there is a humour in what Kurt posts, even some self mocking. The coverage Steve has had is very factual, to the point and earnest. When you are just reporting facts on a one year bike ride it can get a little repetitive. I want Steve to get the record, but over time I have warmed to Kurt. If I was doing some coverage I would attempt to do something slightly different rather than just factual and going on about time and miles. If we face the truth how many straight forward mileage reports will interest people? I do not just mean us cycling geeks but other people. I have nothing to tell these people about what riding a bike is like and why I love riding my bike overnight, but interesting stories about breakdowns, punctures or some people who have helped him and some stories.

I feel a sort of belonging to Steve's attempt and YACF has helped in this. If there is an anti YACF feeling in the team I hope it goes away and they feel the love from the assembled random ranks of cyclists that form the loose community of YACF.

So some coverage with something a little different from time to time. Please  :thumbsup:

BB
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Basil on September 14, 2015, 10:09:48 pm
1.  Steve is doing what Steve wants to do.
2.  Steve is not Kurt.  He is STEVE
3.  I bet that some mornings Steve doesn't even know himself exactly what the plan of the day is.

1.  Not for us or anyone else.
2.  And we love him
3.  As an ex random anarchic tourer I totally understand this.  Who needs pressure?  Adaptability is the name of the game.

In Steve we trust.

GO STEVE.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Jaded on September 14, 2015, 10:53:05 pm
 :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: rabbit on September 16, 2015, 09:31:44 am
Lack of media coverage is sort of deliberate.
Those interviews with the press are a lot of work to plan and if done very well will cost at least 10 miles.
I can't afford to throw that kind of mileage away.
It can only be done on the road with a cycling journalist who rides with me (which has been done twice)
An accompanying motor vehicle would need to comply with UMCA rules or risk getting me disqualified and there is a lot of hassle there.
Simply put, talking costs miles.

After the event, in August next year, everyone can have what they want from me. I'll be out of work so will have time for interviews etc. But now is the time for me to keep riding.

There should be a short film out soon from last night. Even that meant a late start today. Today will be a strategicaly low mileage. Yesterday was pretty good in good conditions but the wind is going to make things tricky today.
Even that short film took a lot of work. My going away for the weekend stuffed up the original plans but I had to do it to get the best mileage I could.

Travelodging seems to be better than hosting. It opens up my options a lot more so I can use the best roads for the wind conditions rather than have to do loops into headwinds etc


Mileage 20 miles up on last week and those 20 miles were done with 20 minutes more riding time, so must be getting faster too, though the last 2 days were very good conditions.
Current aim is to build up on what I am doing I expect it to happen very slowly.
Still have the post PBP lurking in the background too so I still need to be a bit carefull.

Brilliant stuff Steve, good to hear an update of the riding and also some explanation of the situation which clarifies a lot of stuff.  Also the great interview with Idai, brilliant!  :thumbsup:

Yes, quite a few of us could step up and help but that can't happen unless Steve or his crew actually communicate and maybe even ask for some assistance. I don't see that happening, as it stands.

I don't usually agree with the Antipodean, but he is right

All the team have to do is ask.  There are loads of us on Social Media happy to post round snippets of info from the team.  The brilliant interview from Idai that has just been posted is fabulous, and great work from both.  You can see how it ate into Steve's time for the day though and it's totally understandable why this kind of intensive interview is a rare thing.  A monthly or weekly update from the team just regarding Steve and how he is/what he needs etc could be written up in a few lines after someone speaking to Leslie and the others without having to interfere with Steve's schedule in any way.  Just an idea. 

As for energy vampires etc - if the elephant in the room doesn't get mentioned it tends to get bigger and bigger until it suffocates everything or explodes in a right mess, and that is the biggest energy vampire of all. 
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: mrcharly-YHT on September 16, 2015, 10:47:08 am
1.  Steve is doing what Steve wants to do.
2.  Steve is not Kurt.  He is STEVE
3.  I bet that some mornings Steve doesn't even know himself exactly what the plan of the day is.

1.  Not for us or anyone else.
2.  And we love him
3.  As an ex random anarchic tourer I totally understand this.  Who needs pressure?  Adaptability is the name of the game.

In Steve we trust.

GO STEVE.
Lovely post, Basil.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: CrazyEnglishTriathlete on September 23, 2015, 07:45:26 am
Looking at Kurt's steady progress towards the record I think there is a benefit in the two record attempts (Steve and Kurt) becoming decoupled by several months.  If they really were neck and neck I think there would be a lot of pressure to "do a few extra miles" each day.  But there seems to be a very fine balance at 200+ miles per day about what you can do and what becomes too much.  The cost of having a bad day (and losing 100 miles) is too high.  So by being back to an independent basis they are both free to ride as they wish, which I think will mean they both get to the best mileage they can.  Chapeau to both of them.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: red marley on September 23, 2015, 08:22:51 am
I think that's a good point. While it might have made good spectator sport for us, it would have put some serious extra pressure on Steve and Kurt had they been neck and neck. The situation (that they've managed to avoid) is reminiscent of the apparent truce in using extra support between Tommy Godwin and Bernard Bennett in the summer of 1939 to prevent the continuation of unhealthy daily distances.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Byronius Maximus on October 08, 2015, 12:38:52 pm
It's probably been covered already (apologies if so, not a religious follower of the forum!), but it's occurred to me that next year is a leap year....I assume the HAMR is for a 365 day period, rather than Steve having come up with a cunning way to squeeze and extra day's riding into his record attempt? ;-)
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: mrcharly-YHT on October 08, 2015, 12:50:23 pm
Yes, hamr is for a 365 consecutive day period.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: red marley on October 08, 2015, 03:46:44 pm
Indeed, 365 days for the HAM'R, although, as Citizen Fish no doubt can confirm, I believe for some of the historical records that were achieved in leap years (Authur Humbles, 1932; Walter Greaves, 1936), the full 366 days of the leap year were counted. However, in both cases, the riders started a few days late in January, so in fact both rode for fewer than 365 days.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Exit Stage Left on October 08, 2015, 06:21:28 pm
An amusing account of Walter Greaves.

http://autobus.cyclingnews.com/features/?id=2006/woodland_greaves
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Citizenfish on October 08, 2015, 08:31:21 pm
Indeed, 365 days for the HAM'R, although, as Citizen Fish no doubt can confirm, I believe for some of the historical records that were achieved in leap years (Authur Humbles, 1932; Walter Greaves, 1936), the full 366 days of the leap year were counted. However, in both cases, the riders started a few days late in January, so in fact both rode for fewer than 365 days.

True, Greaves also missed a fortnight due to injury.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Tim Hall on October 17, 2015, 10:05:24 am
I really like the "title as comment" stuff that the Strava rides show. Before it was "Morning ride. Morning ride. Morning ride."  Now we get a snippet of what's going on: "Pretty strong wind from the north today" for Wenesday, "Another late start and a good steady ride." for Thursday and "Good day's ride. The route worked well. Got up earlier than usual and could have done more but decided to save my strength for a better day when I won't have to fight the wind so much." for Friday.   Excellent.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: SoreTween on October 17, 2015, 10:27:40 am
Thanks for highlighting that Tim  :thumbsup:  I haven't signed in for ages but shall put that back on the daily ritual.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: hillbilly on October 17, 2015, 10:40:15 am
  I quite liked the symbolism of Morning Ride, Morning Ride, ad infinitum.  It spoke of the daily drudgery, the repetition and consistent toil that a record attempt seems to entail.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: crowriver on October 17, 2015, 11:17:51 am
An amusing account of Walter Greaves.

http://autobus.cyclingnews.com/features/?id=2006/woodland_greaves

That's a great read! I chuckled to myself quite a few times.  ;D
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: red marley on October 17, 2015, 07:22:47 pm
Ooooh! Congratulations to CitizenFish. Looking forward to reading this...

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CRiUGQ0WUAAmNlS.jpg)
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Ian H on October 17, 2015, 07:37:05 pm


For those of us following on a daily basis, it is largely our main form of update. Can anyone explain why YACF is looked down upon by some of the team?


It isn't.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Citizenfish on October 17, 2015, 09:33:42 pm
Ooooh! Congratulations to CitizenFish. Looking forward to reading this

Jo, you made centre spread. Please email me your address and I will send a copy when back from my latest bike adventure
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Shreds on October 18, 2015, 11:16:59 am
Not often I order a book without a nosey first, but on this occasion I have taken a blind punt. Ordered yesterday. Postman awaited!
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: TimC on October 18, 2015, 05:06:13 pm


For those of us following on a daily basis, it is largely our main form of update. Can anyone explain why YACF is looked down upon by some of the team?


It isn't.

As you will see from that run of posts, it was an allegation made by someone else which I picked up on. I'm glad to hear it's not so. I'm also pleased to see Steve adding his own words to his Strava entries, plus much more frequent FB comments, which make a huge difference to our ability to feel connected to his attempt. Thanks, Steve! :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Bobby on October 18, 2015, 08:50:30 pm
"Current thoughts on the record attempt?"

I rode exactly 'one Godwin' yesterday, I simply cannot believe that Steve & Kurt do that & more EVERY DAY.  I'm knackered today, it's easy to forget how far that actually is to ride - I take my hat off to them both, it's amazing.  Keep going Steve and Kurt  :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Pickled Onion on October 19, 2015, 08:01:11 am
Not often I order a book without a nosey first, but on this occasion I have taken a blind punt. Ordered yesterday. Postman awaited!

On Amazon it says:

Only 6 left in stock - Order soon
Only 2 left in stock - Order soon
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Shreds on October 19, 2015, 08:22:56 am
Not often I order a book without a nosey first, but on this occasion I have taken a blind punt. Ordered yesterday. Postman awaited!

On Amazon it says:

Only 6 left in stock - Order soon
Only 2 left in stock - Order soon

I ordered direct from the publishers Vertebrate Publishing in Sheffield. Cheaper than Amazon.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: hillbilly on October 19, 2015, 10:14:47 am
"Current thoughts on the record attempt?"

I rode exactly 'one Godwin' yesterday, I simply cannot believe that Steve & Kurt do that & more EVERY DAY.  I'm knackered today, it's easy to forget how far that actually is to ride - I take my hat off to them both, it's amazing.  Keep going Steve and Kurt  :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

I was thinking the same thing.  I rode 10 miles shy of a Godwin on Saturday and my legs are still grumbling.  It is quite humbling to realise that as "tough" as I think I am, I'm just a featherweight compared to Kurt, Steve and Miles.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: hatler on October 21, 2015, 05:43:53 pm
One thing that does stand out for me from jo's amazing visualisation of all this is the steepness of the Godwin curve (based on his actual daily distances) during the Summer months. It's interesting to see how TG planned his two curves on similar lines with a very clear reference to Godwin, whereas what's happened in reality is that TG (and Kurt for that matter) have a much much flatter curve. Part of TG's curve's flatness may be attributable to his recent re-start, in that his Jan 1st plan combined the effects of being super fit with the Summer months, whereas now these are out of phase.

Whichever way you look at it, and however it turns out, the whole thing (as in the effort and tenacity involved) is completely outside my comprehension.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: mattc on October 22, 2015, 10:34:59 am
[ May the lord forgive me for not reading every post in October. ]

Could someone update me on Steve's leg problem? Is this a new thing, or a recurrence from the moped interaction?

A Humble Ignorant Follower.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: PAC on October 22, 2015, 10:43:57 am
It's a new thing apparently- on his other leg :facepalm:  hopefully he's managing it and it's not worsening.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Justin(e) on October 22, 2015, 04:46:37 pm
Ooooh! Congratulations to CitizenFish. Looking forward to reading this...

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CRiUGQ0WUAAmNlS.jpg)

How exciting.  Congrats
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: TimC on October 22, 2015, 05:02:25 pm
Ooooh! Congratulations to CitizenFish. Looking forward to reading this...

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CRiUGQ0WUAAmNlS.jpg)

How exciting.  Congrats

Indeed, nice one CF. Look forward to reading it!
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Shreds on October 23, 2015, 08:04:03 am
Yay!

My "The Year" book arrived too.

Look forward to some cosy reading and a revised 2nd edition in 2016.

Thanks Citizenfish.  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Chris S on October 23, 2015, 10:17:17 am
I think this weekend, given that Steve has had some issues this week, would be a great time for one of Idai's excellent interviews  :thumbsup:.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Citizenfish on October 23, 2015, 06:01:04 pm
Yay!

My "The Year" book arrived too.

Look forward to some cosy reading and a revised 2nd edition in 2016.

Thanks Citizenfish.  :thumbsup:

Pleasure. Hope you all enjoy it. Was an epic journey trying to piece the whole thing together. So much stuff was binned over the years (Godwins mileage cards) that could have made the story utterly complete. Also we were working to a 2015 deadline before Kurt and Steve decided they were going to step up. I look forward to revising it....might have to wait till August 2nd though.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: drgannet on December 03, 2015, 06:57:38 pm
Unfortunately, given Steve's current form, probably over for the 2nd attempt. Absolutely no criticism, because this is dead hard and Steve has been unlucky with injury and illness, but the likely deficit to Tommy looks like it will be too great to recover.

Any thoughts about a final 3rd attempt from January (rest up, sort out the diet and illnes, suitable training and possibly some different tactics)?
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: LittleWheelsandBig on December 03, 2015, 07:02:29 pm
I think it is right on the ragged edge. Unless things change dramatically this month, it'll be over. The new diet is a crapshoot that currently just looks crap.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: rafletcher on December 03, 2015, 07:38:31 pm
Agreed. Nearly over  :-\
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Wobbly on December 03, 2015, 08:18:24 pm
Except that...

At long last, and Very Overdue IMO, there may be a change in tactic.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: LMT on December 03, 2015, 08:49:54 pm
As I pointed out back in February, using his home as a base, map out a couple of 40 mile loops, ride, home, eat and repeat. Do this through the Winter months and knock out the longer milage over the Summer cycling through the flatlands.

The thing here looking at both records is consistency in anything and everything. In terms of what you eat and what works, the amount of rest you get, riding time etc. Steve and his team need to think hard about what works for Steve and work from that and remember what record they are trying to break. FFS you are not trying to break the Tommy Godwin record - you are breaking the highest annual milage record which is recognised as being held by Tommy. A simple distinction yet confound in it's implication on strategy. Forget about what Tommy done and where Tommy went, that was then, this is now.

This is by far the main reason that Kurt has suceeded, that is because he has recognised what record he is trying to break. It matters not to him, that Tommy cycled here or there, the only thing that matters is MILES, and with this the easiest way to ride them and be supported through them. Hence riding on the flatlands and being supported by Alicia. And when not on the road riding close to his home in Ark'sas doing loop after loop. Steve could quite easily do this from his home in MK, yes it would be boring but so what? It worked for Kurt.

Personally I'd wait until Jan when Searvogel has finished to see what new record has been set, because (with exception) of a serious personal misfortune to himself he will break the record - which I said he would - back in Jan - because he simply recognised what needed to be done and looked at the easiest way of achieving this.

And from what I've seen, Steve's team need to do far more and recognise when he needs help. Don't let him ride 60 miles in seven hours into a headwind before he had that unfortunate incident and don't make him go on a new diet half way through a record attempt in the Winter. ???

Also it might be worth investing in a power meter, working out Steve's FTP and then working out the intensity of his rides using his power relative to his FTP. This will be far more consistent then using a HRM and would allow Steve to perhaps ride at a slightly higher power/speed whilst still keeping the intensity to that of an endurance ride.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: andrew531 on December 03, 2015, 09:06:20 pm
I make it that Steve is about 40 miles a day down over the last three weeks. That cannot continue. It must be demoralising for him to see how things have gone against him. I doubt he's a quitter. Hope that this can be turned around.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: chrisbainbridge on December 03, 2015, 09:09:16 pm
So far I think what Steve has shown is that nobody can beat the Tommy Godwin record which was set in a specific time and place.

I agree with LMT.  If Steve wants the highest annual mileage record then get on and do it.  Flat roads, no wind, circuits of mind numbing boredom, etc but doable.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Freya on December 03, 2015, 09:20:32 pm
I don't think he is out of it yet. If he has a decent winter I still think he could make up what he has lost, but it is looking a bit grim. As for starting again... that would mean effectively riding for two years with almost no break. He'd have to be pretty tough to do that. (but then again it seems that he is)
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Shreds on December 03, 2015, 09:46:48 pm
I am sure he is tough enough, but whether he wants to,  is another matter. He has previously said he doesn't want the challenge to go on forever and to have an end in sight.

It must be totally demoralising to have had to restart due to the motorcyclist accident, but now it looks like the change of diet, mid challenge (why?) has combined with the winds to slow things down significantly.

Whilst winter was always accepted as a time when mileages might need to be compromised, the problem is budgeting for massively increased mileages later on. Even Spring and Summer are not without their bad weather days.

Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: danridesbikes on December 03, 2015, 09:58:49 pm
Quote
As I pointed out back in February, using his home as a base, map out a couple of 40 mile loops, ride, home, eat and repeat.

i did my first 300 buy linking together 3x100km loops that centred on my house, don't think i was ever further than 50km from home, a lot mentally easier than being 200km from home in bad weather
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Karla on December 03, 2015, 10:37:58 pm
It's worth remembering that lots of people have held this record, not just Godwin, and that they've come from several different countries.  By staying in Britain during this weather, Steve's making a rod for his own back - especially when I believe he has an invitation from someone down in the south of France.  It's a world record, so you can break it anywhere in the world.  The thing is, he's not going to break it at 100 miles a day.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: red marley on December 03, 2015, 11:32:57 pm
Steve and his team need to think hard about what works for Steve and work from that and remember what record they are trying to break. FFS you are not trying to break the Tommy Godwin record - you are breaking the highest annual milage record which is recognised as being held by Tommy.

I don't think it is for us to tell Steve or the team what type of record they are trying to break. Perhaps his motivation for the endeavour could be different from yours. If you want to get all technical about the UMCA record, he will take that anyway because he will be the first in his age category, but that may not be what is continuing to drive him to ride though some very harsh conditions at the moment.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: marcusjb on December 03, 2015, 11:53:07 pm
I accept that things are clearly very tough for Steve at the moment, however, let's get behind him and not write him off quite yet.

If I read it correctly, he is (not quite) as far below the line as Kurt has been. He is nowhere near as far below the line as Tommy Godwin got.

I accept the line is more than likely to move up, but, relatively speaking, not by an awful lot.

These next few weeks are critical. Go Steve!
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: red marley on December 03, 2015, 11:55:00 pm
Lots of pessimism around at the moment, understandably given the recent problems Steve has faced. However it's worth remembering that nearly a year ago Steve faced the challenge of riding at around 206 miles per day for 12 months top and tailed by winter weather. Today he faces the challenge of 8 months of riding at around 209 miles per day with a month's less of winter and a summer finish with the chance of some long days of big miles. It's also worth remembering that he is running roughly the same deficit as Kurt was at this same point, 4 months into his challenge (around 750 miles below Godwin pace).
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Wowbagger on December 04, 2015, 12:02:51 am
Jo talks sense, as ever. When this is all over I will be very interested to hear the reasons behind Steve's diet change, because before that happened he was plugging away brilliantly at the required mileage.

I sincerely hope that he can get it together in time to start increasing his miles up to 200mpd again around late January. After tomorrow, sunset only has 2 more minutes to lose before it starts getting later again on 14th December. Sunrise continues to get later well past the solstice (22/12/2015) right up to the end of the year before rising earlier again. As long as the temperatures stay above freezing, and the winds are not too strong, the only problem Steve will have is riding at night, and he has already said how much he enjoys this.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: mattc on December 04, 2015, 07:32:04 am
Quote
As I pointed out back in February, using his home as a base, map out a couple of 40 mile loops, ride, home, eat and repeat.

i did my first 300 buy linking together 3x100km loops that centred on my house, don't think i was ever further than 50km from home, a lot mentally easier than being 200km from home in bad weather
And how did Day2 of this plan work out for you?
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Legs on December 04, 2015, 08:26:20 am
40-mile loops are too long.  Kurt is succeeding in this challenge by credit-card touring.  The most effective thing for Steve to implement right now would be a "hamster wheel" of 5 miles or so (perhaps New Bradwell - crossing the Gt Ouse - Haversham, or Little Linford - Black Horse - Newport Pagnell) so that he can ditch the panniers.  That alone would win him an extra 1 or 2 miles per hour.  Then, attracting people to ride with would help him in the windy conditions, raise his spirits, mean that he doesn't have to be the person who stops for food (someone else could sit out a lap and get the food for him), someone else can carry bidons, he could swap bikes if necessary(!), leave a depot of clothes or food (perhaps at a pub) on the circuit etc etc.  Without a step change in strategy, it's really hard to see this attempt lasting past Christmas. :-\
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: jamesld8 on December 04, 2015, 09:11:39 am
Carrying panniers  :o

Looking at Kurt`s bike and cycledr both are riding stripped down very lightweight machines which will undoubtedly have a speed edge over a rather heavier (sturdier ) bike and in particular if extra luggage is being carried. From my own riding experience I find that my lighter bikes not only feel nicer (= psychological boost maybe) to ride but  are maybe 1 kph quicker. 1 kph quicker over duration of Steve`s attempt could be a 5000km difference !

So local shorter loops, particularly when weather is difficult, would seem to have a lot of plus points in that could ride a less laden even completely different setup lighter bike, call back at home for food , rest, engage with other riders taking turns on a loop. It might be a boring way to do it, but plus points at moment would IMHO seem to outweigh any negatives
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: red marley on December 04, 2015, 09:21:53 am
With all this good advice we are dispensing (11 months and 4 days since he started and several years after he started planning it), surely the record's now in the bag for Steve.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Legs on December 04, 2015, 10:33:02 am
Yebbut, facetious posts aside, a great deal of that planning kind of went out of the window when it was realised that 280m+ days throughout the summer are not sustainable.  This was a lesson that had to be learnt, but, once learnt, Steve reined in his expectations of what can be achieved at best in the spring and summer months.  Team Steve need to consider other reactive measures (besides the vehicle transfers which haven't yet materialised) to save this attempt. Miles' attempt was unsuccessful mostly because he did not put to his use the intelligence garnered by Kurt's, Steve's, and his own successes and failures.

I'm worried that Steve's going for an early start today; his track record shows that significantly increased mileage on one day is usually nullified by tougher subsequent days and ends up as a deficit when seen over a three- or four-day period.  Kurt has had success with short circuits, with company, and with lightweight kit (all of which Team Steve could try), and with the recumbent and with warm weather (which are admittedly trickier to implement, or would take some considerable planning).  To paraphrase the Walker Brothers, Steve needs to make it easy on himself, especially as he is adjusting to his new diet (which I would not question if it were considered by experts to be essential to his long-term health).
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: jamesld8 on December 04, 2015, 10:46:01 am
With all this good advice we are dispensing (11 months and 4 days since he started and several years after he started planning it), surely the record's now in the bag for Steve.

as Legs also refers---at start attempt Steve had thought thro`, over years , what he at time felt  was best approach; unfortunately there have been some setbacks and I for one see no harm in suggestions of perhaps a variance to original and well conceived plan A when it may not be going to Plan A. So hopefully good `advice` is received in a good spirit,
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: DaveE128 on December 04, 2015, 11:26:24 am
Lots of pessimism around at the moment, understandably given the recent problems Steve has faced. However it's worth remembering that nearly a year ago Steve faced the challenge of riding at around 206 miles per day for 12 months top and tailed by winter weather. Today he faces the challenge of 8 months of riding at around 209 miles per day with a month's less of winter and a summer finish with the chance of some long days of big miles. It's also worth remembering that he is running roughly the same deficit as Kurt was at this same point, 4 months into his challenge (around 750 miles below Godwin pace).

All good points, and yes, there is plenty of time to make up some distance, but every day I am willing the ever-steepening downward curve on your excellent visualisation to start flattening out and start to curve back up, but we each day I check we aren't there yet... It feels concerning seeing the trajectory at the moment.  Really hope the new diet works out in the end!

If it was me attempting this (hahaha!) then I think I'd be tempted to take a leaf out of Kurt's book, and find a nice flat sheltered loop and do the hamster wheel with some company, even if it's just once a week. Perhaps it would help at this point, in terms of mileage total and perhaps psychologically too. I know Steve is keen to stick to the spirit of TG's record though, and I'm sure there are plenty of other good reasons that this isn't the right approach for him.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: zigzag on December 04, 2015, 12:34:05 pm
richmond park would be a good place for the "hamster wheel" approach. no traffic lights, fairly sheltered, not too hilly, and there are so many cyclists who would be honoured to give a tow and chat.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Frank9755 on December 04, 2015, 12:58:11 pm
Even better places would be the fast time trial courses up and down the (eastern side of the) country.  Not so many tows off passing riders but a lot more from HGVs and coaches!  They may not be much fun at busy times but they are not always busy.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Wheels of Fire on December 04, 2015, 01:48:26 pm
Even better places would be the fast time trial courses up and down the (eastern side of the) country.  Not so many tows off passing riders but a lot more from HGVs and coaches!  They may not be much fun at busy times but they are not always busy.

I thought this as well. As he's over that way, a couple of loops of the E2 every so often wouldn't harm.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Legs on December 04, 2015, 02:01:01 pm
Even better places would be the fast time trial courses up and down the (eastern side of the) country.  Not so many tows off passing riders but a lot more from HGVs and coaches!  They may not be much fun at busy times but they are not always busy.
Catch 22, though: not much of a draft when it's not busy; grim and a little bit scary when it is.  Trogging up and down a DC at 14mph on your own, when you're tired shattered, is very different from racing a TT with signage and other riders around.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: CrazyEnglishTriathlete on December 04, 2015, 02:17:03 pm
This time of year is dire for any kind of outdoor physical activity in the UK.  Its dark.  Its windy.  Everyone is stressed - and that makes more stress for anyone rusing the roads.  These are all psychological factors that have a physiogical impact as well.  Although the curve is downward at the moment that doesn't mean a write off.  It does mean that Steve will have to pick his mileage up earlier in the spring that he would otherwise have had to do - so he is more reliant on a benign spring than otherwise. 

It also shows Steve's wisdom in starting his attempt in a calendar year so that when he got the short days in November and December he would have had the incentive (as Kurt's recent mileages have shown) of being "almost there".
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Shreds on December 04, 2015, 02:46:34 pm
Whilst my fastest ever TT time was on the A1, I really wouldn't recommend it to anyone these days, however experienced.

One dozy half asleep lorry driver and you are mincemeat.

Also the constant fumes are not great, so I think Steve's current strategy of slightly quieter roads has merit as well as being more pleasant to ride.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Martin on December 04, 2015, 03:12:42 pm
IMO this talk of Steve's 2nd attempt being on the rocks is a bit premature, his average since August can easily be caught up if he puts in the sort of mileages he did after recovery from his ankle;

But it's looking extremely unlikely he will beat Tommy's record, Kurt will do that
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: hillbilly on December 04, 2015, 06:02:03 pm
Lets say Steve gets to day 200 (so March or thereabouts) and is 2,500 miles behind the Godwin Line.  He will need to ride 220.8 miles a day to match Tommy on day 365.  Slightly more for the Kurt Line (say 6 to 7 miles a day on top from day 200, if Kurt ends up 1000 miles ahead).

This suggests to me that he still has a fair bit of spare capacity to use up over the winter.  Assuming he is comfortable with the daunting task of riding 220 to 230 miles a day, day in, day out over the Spring and Summer.

In other words I don't myself think its time for Steve to panic (or more correctly, observers who wish him well as I'd imagine Steve realises all of this) even if the days of riding 80 miles short of a Godwin are presumably as frustrating as hell for him.  Those will pass, in all likelihood.   

Whilst jo's charts are very informative (almost to the exclusion of all other sources) they are perhaps distorting the situation Steve is in and making it look more dramatic than it actually is.  If the absolute difference (around 800 miles) is spread over the remaining time (around 3 miles a day more than a Godwin needed) then it still looks very achievable.  For now and for some time.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Arry-R on December 05, 2015, 03:10:09 am
IMO this talk of Steve's 2nd attempt being on the rocks is a bit premature, his average since August can easily be caught up if he puts in the sort of mileages he did after recovery from his ankle;

But it's looking extremely unlikely he will beat Tommy's record, Kurt will do that





 :thumbsup:

Easily caught up? ????


. This
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: TimC on December 05, 2015, 07:44:05 am
The change of diet has affected Steve far more than I'm sure he or his team feared, but it's done now and the lost miles can't be undone. The double whammy of the diet change and the deterioration in the weather has made life very difficult for him. Steve has shown in the couple months before the change that he is capable of riding at greater than 'Standard Godwin' pace consistently when things are going well, and I'm sure he'll get back to that. Whether he can recover the lost miles on top of that is rather more difficult to predict, but I'm bloody certain he'll try!
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: rafletcher on December 05, 2015, 05:27:27 pm
Sadly (and I mean that) I don't think Steve will get / hold the record. Nor will anyone attempting it in the UK. There are far easier (for certain values of "easy") places in the world to do the sort of mileages necessary. The UK is too crowded, too trafficed and too hilly.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: sg37409 on December 05, 2015, 05:35:41 pm
Agreed, rat fletcher.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Citizenfish on December 05, 2015, 06:40:31 pm
Sadly (and I mean that) I don't think Steve will get / hold the record. Nor will anyone attempting it in the UK. There are far easier (for certain values of "easy") places in the world to do the sort of mileages necessary. The UK is too crowded, too trafficed and too hilly.

Luckily, Arthur Humbles, Walter Greaves, Tommy Godwin, Rene Menzies did not share that view. I think 80,000 is possible in the UK and Kurt won't get 80k. I think Tommy could have done 80k without the poor winter of 1939.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: CrazyEnglishTriathlete on December 06, 2015, 07:08:29 am
I'm just sitting back and thinking what Steve has achieved, 58000 miles on a bike in a year and counting - even with a period off for a broken ankle. 

1) That's further than anyone had cycled in a year in the last 76 years (there seems to have been a lot of fuss about some tennis players winning a trophy for the first time in 79 years recently

2) Steve had the courage to set out and give it a go, and even with his injury, proved that tackling 'the impossible record' was possible

3) He's created interest in the record which, assuming Kurt stays upright, will be beaten, and will have another serious attempt next year.

4) For all the talk of attempts in good climates - the trials and tribulations of Miles Smith, who had flat fast roads and a Mediterranean climate, show just how tough this is, I think other challengers such as Bruce Berkeley will find this too.

And he still has a good chance of beating the record.  On something like a '24' there is always a tough spot during the night - when the legs don't work, and you lose speed.  But that's often forgotten the next morning.  For Steve 15th November - the end of February is the equivalent of that night, where he will have bad days and hold it together, but I think you will see if he does (and I have no reason to suspect that he won't), that the speeds will pick up in the spring.

Forza Steve
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Arry-R on December 06, 2015, 08:34:33 am
Great posting C E T  thanks
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Wowbagger on December 06, 2015, 10:53:07 am
I haven't experienced the Melbourne climate, but I think it can change very dramatically from day to day. I spoke to my daughter there one day last month and on the day in question it was as warm in Essex (17°) as it was in Melbourne. The previous day the temperature reached 34°C. That unpredictability must bring with it its own problems.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Jaded on December 06, 2015, 10:55:24 am
Wot CET said.

Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: LittleWheelsandBig on December 06, 2015, 11:13:15 am
The "4 seasons in 1 day" Crowded House song was about Melbourne.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: CrazyEnglishTriathlete on December 06, 2015, 02:20:55 pm
I haven't experienced the Melbourne climate, but I think it can change very dramatically from day to day. I spoke to my daughter there one day last month and on the day in question it was as warm in Essex (17°) as it was in Melbourne. The previous day the temperature reached 34°C. That unpredictability must bring with it its own problems.

SE Australia has a weather cycle driven by fronts that pass along the south coast and turn up into the Tasman Sea.  A spell of settled weather is followed by increasing winds from the north west and then the "Southerly Buster" which can reach gusts of about 50mph.  In the summer this does result in a sudden temperature drop of 15 - 20C over 2 -5 hours as air heated up over the Australian deserts is replaced with cold air from the South Atlantic.  However, as someone who grew up in Plymouth, it was reasonably tame compared with a channel storm, and the strong winds didn't last for days on end like they do here. 
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Arry-R on December 06, 2015, 05:55:29 pm
C E T   What a mime of knowledge you are.  Thanks for sharing with us and please continue to do so!
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: andyoxon on December 06, 2015, 06:43:46 pm
If Steve can start and continue with the 'positive gradient' asap, doing a Godwin +7miles/day, he'd back at the WR line by end of March-ish (I think).  Even if the line was reached by beginning of May, he'd have three summer months to have Kurt S's new total (assuming etc...) in his sights.   OYTT is just such a monumental task!

Go Steve.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: tonyh on December 06, 2015, 08:14:44 pm
Great posting C E T  thanks

Yes!
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Arry-R on December 07, 2015, 08:50:55 am
If Steve can start and continue with the 'positive gradient' asap, doing a Godwin +7miles/day, he'd back at the WR line by end of March-ish (I think).  Even if the line was reached by beginning of May, he'd have three summer months to have Kurt S's new total (assuming etc...) in his sights.   OYTT is just such a monumental task!

Go Steve.








He will not be averaging much over 190 per day now until early March's.  Then will need 220-230 every day for at least 90 days approx to catch up.   If this very mild winter continues it will help no end. Good luck Steve
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: andyoxon on December 07, 2015, 10:43:52 am
Although, Steve averaged ~180mls/dy Jan-Mar, when the strategy was different and the plan was to do really big miles in the summer AFAIA.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Exit Stage Left on December 07, 2015, 10:56:43 am
I see that Kurt is going to finish his year with a 300km Randonee in Florida. That makes quite a neat end to his story. It would be nice to film that, especially if was possible to get Steve out there for a bit of warm-weather riding.
Steve will still have 7 months to go at that point, and a trip to Florida would answer some of the questions about the effects of weather on the attempt.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: marcusjb on December 07, 2015, 11:04:26 am
a trip to Florida would answer some of the questions about the effects of weather on the attempt.

And jetlag.  ;)
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Exit Stage Left on December 07, 2015, 11:07:15 am
That rather assumes that Steve would be constrained by a day/night schedule. Numerous riders from around the world didn't find this a problem on PBP. An interesting point for a short film in itself.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: mattc on December 07, 2015, 11:30:40 am
Internet Scepticism Trigger #58:
Any post containing "... didn't find this a problem ... "

e.g. "1939 transmissions  were clearly inferior to what is available now."
"Well Tommy Godwin didnt find this a problem when he set the record."

QED!
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Exit Stage Left on December 07, 2015, 01:25:28 pm
The finish of a TT has obvious appeal as a subject. I've done a few 24s over the years. So Kurt's finish is something I've thought about. It would be an expensive thing to do speculatively, but I've never been to the States.

The question then arises as to how to emphasise that it's not the end of the story, with Steve still riding for more than half a year.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Chris S on December 07, 2015, 01:27:53 pm
The question then arises as to how to emphasise that it's not the end of the story, with Steve still riding for more than half a year.

Take Steve with you?  ;D
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Exit Stage Left on December 07, 2015, 01:40:03 pm
The Raleigh he rides is based on a US model, and they make a 'Record Ace', so there's a potential tie-in there.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Exit Stage Left on December 07, 2015, 10:51:13 pm
It makes a lot of sense for the UMCA and Kurt for the challenge to continue, not to mention Strava. This is all assuming that all goes to plan of course.

One of the joys of Audax for me is the thought that at any time there is someone, somewhere, who's keeping the dream alive, and it doesn't matter to me what country that is happening in.

That's the appeal of the One Year Time Trial to me, it's a pinnacle of that idea of audacity. So passing on that baton would be a critical moment. The ideal would be to record the moment of passing the current record, and the passing of the year.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: fussballclub on December 08, 2015, 07:03:58 am
You forgot to say in Marsh Gibbon of course.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: DaveE128 on December 08, 2015, 01:24:34 pm
I'm pleased to see that the mileage graph seems to show a point of inflection a few days back, that is, downward trend is now slowing. Hopefully this means that it won't be too long before Steve will be averaging enough miles a day to begin catching up some of the lost ground.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: hillbilly on December 08, 2015, 05:51:11 pm
(http://craigdodson.files.wordpress.com/2012/11/half-full-pint-glass-beer.jpg)

I'm more a pint half empty kind of guy.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Frank9755 on December 08, 2015, 06:29:34 pm
I'm pleased to see that the mileage graph seems to show a point of inflection a few days back, that is, downward trend is now slowing. Hopefully this means that it won't be too long before Steve will be averaging enough miles a day to begin catching up some of the lost ground.

ie it's getting worse more slowly - the comfort of derivatives!
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Arry-R on December 09, 2015, 12:53:28 am


ie it's getting worse more slowly - the comfort of derivatives!
[/quote]





Yes  :facepalm:
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Bianchi Boy on December 09, 2015, 07:23:43 am
Yesterday 130km  :(
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: hillbilly on December 09, 2015, 11:41:10 am
At the moment Steve gives the impression of someone drowning not waving.

If I was in the same situation, I'd find riding alone a very lonely place given the way things have turned out since the last fortnight of November.  My inner voice would be getting right on my tits.

Hopefully his support team and his close network are giving him an opportunity to discuss all options and providing a sounding board. 
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Hatless on December 09, 2015, 07:44:26 pm
Is it worse to run into a moped or a sports dietitian?
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: mattc on December 09, 2015, 07:58:15 pm
At the moment Steve gives the impression of someone drowning not waving.

If I was in the same situation, I'd find riding alone a very lonely place given the way things have turned out since the last fortnight of November.  My inner voice would be getting right on my tits.

Hopefully his support team and his close network are giving him an opportunity to discuss all options and providing a sounding board.
To be fair, his last few social media posts [that I've seen] have been really upbeat. even when he only rides 140ish miles!
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: LittleWheelsandBig on December 09, 2015, 09:46:38 pm
So were Miles' statements.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: andyoxon on December 10, 2015, 10:38:24 am
Steve's chat with police beside the A47 - Saturday night, on CyclingWeekly:
http://www.cyclingweekly.co.uk/news/latest-news/long-distance-cyclist-steve-abraham-stopped-by-police-for-riding-on-an-a-road-203275

Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Ningishzidda on December 10, 2015, 11:28:02 am
A couple of policemen stop Steve for a chat about the dangers of dual-carriageways and cyclists.
What’s wrong with that?

Start moaning when the police show they are not concerned about the safety of cyclists.

All those cyclists who have never been approached by a policeman advising a ‘safer’ route, clearly haven’t the same mettle as Steve Abrams.

( A46 Warwick by-pass en route between Stratford on Avon and Measham during a 300km Midmesh )
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: LMT on December 10, 2015, 12:01:36 pm
A couple of policemen stop Steve for a chat about the dangers of dual-carriageways and cyclists.
What’s wrong with that?

Start moaning when the police show they are not concerned about the safety of cyclists.

All those cyclists who have never been approached by a policeman advising a ‘safer’ route, clearly haven’t the same mettle as Steve Abrams.

( A46 Warwick by-pass en route between Stratford on Avon and Measham during a 300km Midmesh )

I'm well aware of the potential dangers of riding a bike on a dual carriageway and make the decision to ride on said road after taking this into account. I don't need a copper telling me what for. Unless they want to throw their keys away as I do believe they are more likely to have a crash and kill or seriously injure someone than me.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Kim on December 10, 2015, 12:14:00 pm
A couple of policemen stop Steve for a chat about the dangers of dual-carriageways and cyclists.
What’s wrong with that?

Other than it being a waste of everybody's time?

How about that it's indicative that the police don't know the law.


That said, I'm surprised that it hasn't happened before, given the mileage Steve has clocked up.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: rafletcher on December 10, 2015, 12:15:30 pm

I'm well aware of the potential dangers of riding a bike on a dual carriageway and make the decision to ride on said road after taking this into account. I don't need a copper telling me what for.

Just because you are doesn't mean everyone is. The number of cyclists (ok, to "us", they're people on BSO's, but to the rest of the world, their cyclists) riding around morning and evening with no or ineffective lights at the moment is disgraceful. Oh they all wear hi-vis, but often car lights don't get that high to make the reflectives stand out,a nd often they're cheap and filthy. Only this morning I only just saw one such as he shot across my bows at a roundabout, and then only due to the wheel reflectors he had. His hi-vis was useless.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: rafletcher on December 10, 2015, 12:17:16 pm
A couple of policemen stop Steve for a chat about the dangers of dual-carriageways and cyclists.
What’s wrong with that?

How about that it's indicative that the police don't know the law.


They didn't arrest him, or caution him. They knew the law. He was on a horrid bit of road with plenty of alternatives that might be considered safer. Perhaps they were trying to be helpful?
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Ningishzidda on December 10, 2015, 12:20:59 pm
The reason why policemen stop and talk to cyclists on fast dual carriageways is because if they didn’t, after observing the cyclist and the cyclist is killed, the policeman would be held negligent of doing his duty.
The incident will be recorded in the officer's report. "The cyclist was advised against riding on the A47".

Is it every policeman’s duty to protect the citizen? Or at least advise on ‘safer’ routes for cyclists. Does the ‘To protect and to serve’ motto apply in the UK?

In a similar manner, an AUK Organiser will advise the riders not to use the A47 dual carriageway. Some newbie Auks will think “I don’t need an AUK Org telling me what for.” 
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Kim on December 10, 2015, 12:24:26 pm
They didn't arrest him, or caution him. They knew the law. He was on a horrid bit of road with plenty of alternatives that might be considered safer. Perhaps they were trying to be helpful?

Quite likely.

Much like the helmet and hi-vis people are trying to be helpful.  They don't realise it's political.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: red marley on December 10, 2015, 12:25:12 pm
Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Kim on December 10, 2015, 12:28:06 pm
Current thoughts on the record attempt?

Random stops by well-meaning police are unlikely to case a statistically significant loss of mileage.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Ningishzidda on December 10, 2015, 12:48:27 pm
Current thoughts on the record attempt?

Random stops by well-meaning police are unlikely to case a statistically significant loss of mileage.

Unexpected stops by ‘know it all’ crew-cab truck drivers who think they can forcibly change Steve’s route, might well end Steve’s attempt. Unless Steve knows a bit of Karate.
Tip, Stay off the A4177 between Warwick and Hatton.... Use the cycle path provided  :o
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: simonp on December 10, 2015, 01:19:24 pm
Current thoughts on the record attempt?

I find it very hard to find anything positive in recent progress.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: LMT on December 10, 2015, 01:48:58 pm
The reason why policemen stop and talk to cyclists on fast dual carriageways is because if they didn’t, after observing the cyclist and the cyclist is killed, the policeman would be held negligent of doing his duty.
The incident will be recorded in the officer's report. "The cyclist was advised against riding on the A47".

Is it every policeman’s duty to protect the citizen? Or at least advise on ‘safer’ routes for cyclists. Does the ‘To protect and to serve’ motto apply in the UK?

In a similar manner, an AUK Organiser will advise the riders not to use the A47 dual carriageway. Some newbie Auks will think “I don’t need an AUK Org telling me what for.”

Take this victim blaming elsewhere in a new thread and we'll debate the issue.....
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: LMT on December 10, 2015, 01:49:49 pm
Current thoughts on the record attempt?

I find it very hard to find anything positive in recent progress.

Which is a shame because as Winter's go compared to last year it's rather mild.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Veloman on December 10, 2015, 02:04:56 pm
^^^ Thus far it has been rather mild but it has also been rather wet (very wet) and rather windy (very windy) which can't be of great help.  A few still, dry and cooler days would no doubt help.  If we get a bad winter with hard frosts (ice) and snow (reducing the effective width of the road) then it will be truly grim.

Pity funds are tight and Steve can't fly to better weather.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: marcusjb on December 10, 2015, 02:17:37 pm
Pity funds are tight and Steve can't fly to better weather.

I am not sure if funds are tight (we simply don't know since fidgetbuzz stepped down as the money man).

I think it is possibly more related to Steve's drive to keep his attempt on a par with Tommy Godwins?  Stubbornness is a useful attribute in the long distance game, but may just count against you when doing something quite so long.

If funds were tight and that was stopping Steve do something, I am sure that a fund-raising drive within his current sponsors, and looking for new sponsors would yield results.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: LittleWheelsandBig on December 10, 2015, 02:27:51 pm
My understanding is that Marcus is very close to the mark. I think Steve has forgotten that the majority of Tommy's attempt had a accompanying car with a dedicated person carrying extra clothes and handing up food and drinks along the road. That assistance alone is worth tens of miles per day. Kurt has certainly found that sort of assistance  very helpful.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: HK on December 10, 2015, 03:00:28 pm
My experience of record chasing is that all rides are unique and can't be compared to one another.  You do what you can and what you need to rules permitting at the time you're racing or riding. To do otherwise is stupid.

Godwin wouldn't have hesitated swapping out his bike for a light weight modern machine......
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Freya on December 10, 2015, 03:06:02 pm
Quote
I find it very hard to find anything positive in recent progress.

I think it is difficult to say things are going brilliantly at the moment, but as others have pointed out: All that matters is that Steve comes out of the winter period with an achievable target still in sight. He can afford to drop a fair few miles between now & March, yet still be in with a shout. Unless something really catastrophic happens, we won't really know whether he can do it for a few months. It is still too early to write him off IMHO.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: zigzag on December 10, 2015, 03:39:48 pm
Steve needs to bear in mind that (as i'm sure he knows) that it is exponentially harder to claw back lost miles. everything compounds over the time against you - more strain on the body due to increased distances and less time for eating, sleeping and recovery. it's best, if possible, to keep close to 200mpd over the winter, especially when the weather is benign (it won't get better than recent few days).
alternatively, Steve can wait few years, learn from his current attempt, gain some speed and have another go - he's ten(?) years junior to Kurt. it's those who work smart (rather than hard) that achieve great results.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: HK on December 10, 2015, 03:58:49 pm
Zig-Zag is on the money.

I'd say the daily mileage needs to be at least 205 miles per day. Accumulating more miles in deficit isn't sensible. There are only 24 hours in every day and 365 of them in this record attempt.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Exit Stage Left on December 10, 2015, 04:18:44 pm
Steve pointed out to me that 2015 has been one of the windiest years on record. His riding strategy makes that a problem for him. Potentially it's an advantage, as Kurt points out in this very good article.

Quote
Searvogel is as haunted by the wind as any sailor. He tracks it obsessively on the website WindFinder.com, charting his course around prevailing patterns. Like a game of geophysical chess, it is about not simply that day’s winds but also the next. “You’ve got to know what’s going to happen tomorrow,” he told me. “If you ride yourself into a corner, the next day’s going to be hell. It’s probably about 5:30 or 6 p.m. before we know where we’ll be tomorrow.”

But Searvogel knew this morning’s inconvenience would only be temporary. “You always want to hit the easy button,” he says. A mileage record is a mileage record: there is no added distinction for feet climbed, watts burned, state lines crossed. Once we reached land’s end in Door County, we would turn around and catch a great big southerly express train of atmospheric disturbance projected for later that morning that would take us all the way down near Madison. “Tomorrow’s probably going to be a 250-mile day,” were his last words the night before, which rang in my ears like a threat.

http://www.outsideonline.com/2039276/hello-i-must-be-going
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Citizenfish on December 10, 2015, 04:29:41 pm
My understanding is that Marcus is very close to the mark. I think Steve has forgotten that the majority of Tommy's attempt had a accompanying car with a dedicated person carrying extra clothes and handing up food and drinks along the road. That assistance alone is worth tens of miles per day. Kurt has certainly found that sort of assistance  very helpful.

Godwin had only 5 months by my reckoning, May - August
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: LittleWheelsandBig on December 10, 2015, 04:33:50 pm
OK, not the majority, the slight minority, but certainly the months that he consistently significantly exceeded his average daily mileage.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: andrew531 on December 10, 2015, 04:54:24 pm
My understanding is that Marcus is very close to the mark. I think Steve has forgotten that the majority of Tommy's attempt had a accompanying car with a dedicated person carrying extra clothes and handing up food and drinks along the road. That assistance alone is worth tens of miles per day. Kurt has certainly found that sort of assistance  very helpful.

Godwin had only 5 months by my reckoning, May - August

The months when he recorded his highest mileage and probably rode longer hours.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: hillbilly on December 10, 2015, 05:03:57 pm
All that matters is that Steve comes out of the winter period with an achievable target still in sight.

Bang on the mark.

I hope Steve stabilises his losses soon.  The thing that catches my eye is that the losses are quite variable at the moment, ranging from 80 miles a day to 30 miles.  Often with no clear weather-linked reason (particularly over the past week).  That variability smacks of getting into a cycle of overcompensation following a disappointing mileage total. 

In "similar" situations (chasing a record, albeit not one so hard) what I did was set a more manageable target when things weren't going to the master plan (in this case it would be "ride 10 miles more than yesterday") rather than attempting to push myself back onto the master plan (in this case, ride 205 miles). 

Steve has the ability and scope to make up a reasonable shortfall come the end of winter, so a gradual clawing back towards daily Godwins is an option for him.  Rather than pushing too hard too soon.

Of course, this assumes that the disappointing daily mileages being seen at the moment are due to his diet or some other physical limitation.  Rather than simply fighting the weather (where a degree of variability would be more understandable).  I don't know which it is, not being in Steve's inner circle. (In other words "what do I know").
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: red marley on December 10, 2015, 05:14:54 pm
I wouldn't rule out the over-compensation pattern you suggest, but remember also that the daily figures as logged on Strava are for 24 hour periods sliced at midnight. So a later ride can look like an under-achieving day followed by an over-achieving one that contains the tail end of the previous late night finish (this wouldn't apply if he was consistently riding at the same times of day, but we have seen some fluctuation in start and end times).
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: hillbilly on December 10, 2015, 05:39:51 pm
but remember also that the daily figures as logged on Strava are for 24 hour periods sliced at midnight.

Good observation.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: jochta on December 10, 2015, 05:46:23 pm
^^^ Thus far it has been rather mild but it has also been rather wet (very wet) and rather windy (very windy) which can't be of great help.  A few still, dry and cooler days would no doubt help.  If we get a bad winter with hard frosts (ice) and snow (reducing the effective width of the road) then it will be truly grim.

Pity funds are tight and Steve can't fly to better weather.

Windy but not wet. Rainfall in the whole of southern England and East Anglia was well within normal bounds in November and actually rather dry in places. It's only when you get north of Birmingham and to the NW that rainfall was well above normal. Southern UK rainfall is rather evenly distributed throughout the year, i.e. most months on average receive about the same amount. It's also been very mild, with only a couple of air frosts so far and temperatures well above normal.

See http://www.metoffice.gov.uk/public/weather/climate/gcpxfm7hf for Woburn climatic averages.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: mattc on December 10, 2015, 05:59:31 pm
Steve pointed out to me that 2015 has been one of the windiest years on record. His riding strategy makes that a problem for him.

Which aspect of his strategy?
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: TimC on December 11, 2015, 06:43:49 am
Apart from the wind, the weather in the south of England has been pretty benign this year. Steve's explained a numb of times the tactics he uses to mitigate the wind - riding in exposed areas with the wind behind him and seeking sheltered roads for the return. However, the recent dip in form is worrying and I imagine the decision to go for a major change in nutrition strategy mid-attempt (and at this time of year) must be at least part of the reason.

Anything of this extreme nature is something of an experiment, and the potential for disruption is high, but this has the feeling of something of an own-goal and I wonder how much it's down to an influential advisor's inappropriate preferences rather than just a run of bad luck.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: fussballclub on December 11, 2015, 07:03:22 am
Steve pointed out to me that 2015 has been one of the windiest years on record. His riding strategy makes that a problem for him. Potentially it's an advantage, as Kurt points out in this very good article.

Quote
Searvogel is as haunted by the wind as any sailor. He tracks it obsessively on the website WindFinder.com, charting his course around prevailing patterns. Like a game of geophysical chess, it is about not simply that day’s winds but also the next. “You’ve got to know what’s going to happen tomorrow,” he told me. “If you ride yourself into a corner, the next day’s going to be hell. It’s probably about 5:30 or 6 p.m. before we know where we’ll be tomorrow.”

But Searvogel knew this morning’s inconvenience would only be temporary. “You always want to hit the easy button,” he says. A mileage record is a mileage record: there is no added distinction for feet climbed, watts burned, state lines crossed. Once we reached land’s end in Door County, we would turn around and catch a great big southerly express train of atmospheric disturbance projected for later that morning that would take us all the way down near Madison. “Tomorrow’s probably going to be a 250-mile day,” were his last words the night before, which rang in my ears like a threat.

http://www.outsideonline.com/2039276/hello-i-must-be-going

Very good that.

Made me think looking at this as not a TT but a 75.000mile audax how awesome both men are (unglaublich):
1. Kurt (under 365 days)
2. Steve (hors delay)
3-n. YACF (DNF)
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Exit Stage Left on December 11, 2015, 08:54:40 am
Media interest was always going to be most intense at the beginning of the attempt, and towards the end. The 'crowd-funding' of Steve that evolved was a good strategy to finance the project.

Kurt had the advantage of having organised and financed a RAAM. Getting Hoppo on board the Steve team made a lot of sense, as he had similar experience. Idai has the force of personality to handle the media side. But the crowd-funding grew out of YACF, and the two sides never seemed to gel for me.

Jo explained the YACF link to the Guardian in an interview, and the Daily Mirror did an article just before the moped incident.

There's a story to be told of the attempt as a management exercise. 'Riding yourself into a corner' is the most telling phrase that Kurt uses.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Chris S on December 11, 2015, 10:02:31 am
Steve pointed out to me that 2015 has been one of the windiest years on record. His riding strategy makes that a problem for him.

Which aspect of his strategy?

He's not really interested in "help". I'd be really surprised if the recent call for lifts into the wind came from Steve; he wants to do it with as little outside help as possible. It's an approach, far be it from us to criticise if that's how he wants to play it, but IMHO it's very high risk, and recent history is showing just how difficult an approach it is.

Kurt found (or already knew!) what would work - 12 hours of evens, then 12 hours rest; but most important of all, Alicia! Early evening, they decide where to ride next day based on the wind forecast, she drives them both to the agreed start, he rests.

I have no idea of the day to day decision making process of Steve's team (or if there is in fact, any "team" at all?).
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: mattc on December 11, 2015, 10:11:36 am
Steve pointed out to me that 2015 has been one of the windiest years on record. His riding strategy makes that a problem for him.

Which aspect of his strategy?

He's not really interested in "help". I'd be really surprised if the recent call for lifts into the wind came from Steve; he want's to do it with as little outside help as possible. It's an approach, far be it from us to criticise if that's how he wants to play it, but IMHO it's very high risk, and recent history is showing just how difficult an approach it is.

Kurt found (or already knew!) what would work - 12 hours of evens, then 12 hours rest; but most important of all, Alecia! Early evening, they decide where to ride next day based on the wind forecast, she drives them both to the agreed start, he rests.

I have no idea of the day to day decision making process of Steve's team (or if there is in fact, any "team" at all?).
So your answer to my question seems to be:
"Not having a 365x24 support person, who also drives him upwind every night."


That's not really "strategy". If you don't have a resource, you can't choose not to use it!
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Chris S on December 11, 2015, 10:13:31 am
That's not really "strategy". If you don't have a resource, you can't choose not to use it!

He never asked for such a resource, because it was never his strategy.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: LittleWheelsandBig on December 11, 2015, 10:14:31 am
Steve has had the opportunity to acquire that resource since very early in his attempt. The major limitation has been the desire to make it happen.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: mattc on December 11, 2015, 10:16:47 am
I know he's chosen to do without certain levels of support - and of course that has cost him. We all have our different opinions on whether this was "wise".

But has he really been offered a 365x24 helper?  ???
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: LittleWheelsandBig on December 11, 2015, 10:33:00 am
He has been offered 24 hr help several times, most recently myself from 25 Dec to 01 Jan inclusive.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: mattc on December 11, 2015, 11:36:29 am
He has been offered 24 hr help several times, most recently myself from 25 Dec to 01 Jan inclusive.
No offence, but I'd prefer an Alicia for Christmas.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: LittleWheelsandBig on December 11, 2015, 11:46:58 am
None taken. I'm quite sure I wouldn't look as enticing, regardless of the height of my heels or hairstyle.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Somnolent on December 11, 2015, 12:09:27 pm
He's not really interested in "help". I'd be really surprised if the recent call for lifts into the wind came from Steve; he want's to do it with as little outside help as possible. It's an approach, far be it from us to criticise if that's how he wants to play it, but IMHO it's very high risk, and recent history is showing just how difficult an approach it is.

I don't see it "wanting to do it with as little outside hep as possible" being the main motivation.
I was recently in a position to offer Steve (and his bike) a lift into quite a strong SW wind.  A couple of hours in the car and he'd have been 160km upwind of MK instead of 50km downwind.  His rationale was that he'd get more miles in, in total, by being on his bike for those two hours - even if he spent the entire day butting into a headwind.
I was surprised - but I have confidence that he knows what he's doing with calculations of that sort.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: mattc on December 11, 2015, 01:17:50 pm
[I'm almost certain I posted this a few pages back, but anyway ...]

there are 2 obvious factors governing that calculation:
- how strong is the wind? (cos clearly if it was too fast to ride into AT ALL, there's no point in wasting time trying). and
- how much recovery can you get in the vehicle? (if its a long transfer, such as overnight, in a perfect team bus, with food, masseurs and comfy beds ... well again, its a no-brainer).

In the real world the decision will rarely be clear-cut.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: HK on December 11, 2015, 03:08:59 pm

I wouldn't rule out the over-compensation pattern you suggest, but remember also that the daily figures as logged on Strava are for 24 hour periods sliced at midnight. So a later ride can look like an under-achieving day followed by an over-achieving one that contains the tail end of the previous late night finish (this wouldn't apply if he was consistently riding at the same times of day, but we have seen some fluctuation in start and end times).

If you look at each period of seven days divided by seven he hasnt made consistent daily Godwins in some time.  His current shortfalls are large and even doing a Godwin the following day doesn't balance it back to two Godwins.

My experience and this year I have wound up chasing known numbers for AUK ladies is that unless you have a contingency fund of spare kms is that if you fall behind what you have nominated as either your daily or weekly distance it is very difficult to hit the number you are after.

I accept I'n not in Steve's league but like Steve my opportunities to collect kms is  limited not by 24 x 365 but by non work time and other commitments excluding turning the pedals.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Fidgetbuzz on December 11, 2015, 10:05:50 pm
It might be inappropriate for me to come into this current thread as an ex team member -- and the thinking may have changed a little or even a lot over the last 3 months -- but my pennorth is as follows.

The financial support from individuals has been amazing -- and it is still continuing -- funds pass thru an account that I hold before reaching Steve.. it was left like that to avoid all standing orders having to be redirected. The team do not yet know how many of the standing orders will cease after 12 months or whether some, several , many or even lots will continue into 2016 - that will become clearer in early Feb 2016. However if Steve wished to use  " faster " bikes by buying them - or relocate to say South of France - then in my judgement the funds were sufficient to allow this, and i am unaware of any dramatic change in the use of cash.

My experience from very early on , up to the time I stepped down -- was very much that Steve decided what he wanted to do -- and that attempting to suggest alternatives that might have been overlooked or not even considered was seen as totally pointless and dismissed out of hand usually  --in fact I do not think  that  these ideas were even put to Steve for him to consider. Remember that for the team there was really no way to "chat" with him -- he was either on the bike, or off and eating, sleeping or updating mileage. Any team conversations, ideas or suggestions  had to be channelled thru the team leader -- to minimise the interference with Steves daily routine, and I think that the team leader was 100% behind Steve's personal approach believing that  external suggestions were never going to be accepted by Steve -- so forget them - in fact virtually  do not even bother to make them  .. as there is only one way to tackle this  ie ...Steve's way.

 Steve as far as i was able to judge was doing it his way -- and there was only this way to do it. No point in debating the rights or wrongs of this approach -- Steve is the bloke grinding out the miles that are just about imaginable to most of us for a few days .. but for  a year ,... well way beyond my comprehension of both the physical and mental demands.

In a sense the team was an irrelevancy -- as any ideas that might have helped .. if they conflicted with Steves fixed idea of the way he was going to crack the record .. were not even worth thinking about.

Understand this background which i suspect has not changed (but the diet change could indicate that i am wrong here  ) and you will realise that matters such as - relocate to france, faster road bikes, smaller supported drafting ""into the wind"" loops , vehicle transfers , back up hired vehicle  travelling with him -- -- from my knowledge -- just not going to happen.

But Steve ...  you and your local support at MK ..... still have my immense admiration for what you are attempting and how you are setting about it.

I can only hope that you succeed in your driven ambition.


Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Arry-R on December 12, 2015, 05:59:35 am
Excellent and detailed posting. Thank you for compiling and sharing with us and for your enormous help managing and setting up the Financial side of things. It is reassuring to read that the funds are all in place for Steve to continue riding the challenge  'his way'.  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Wowbagger on December 12, 2015, 03:32:16 pm
A quick look at the tracker indicates an overall moving speed for Steve as 16.3mph, but 15.8 for Kurt. I have no clue as to how it works that out.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: wajcgac on December 12, 2015, 07:29:01 pm
Hi Wow, I think that the Tracker average is wrong but not sure why.

Steve's moving average according to Strava is about 23.8 kph for 2015.

Kurt's moving average according to Strava is about 29 kph for 2015.

This tallies pretty well with my spreadsheet which shows the average of their daily average speeds.

Should someone attempt this challenge who has Kurts speed (29km/h) and spends as much time on the bike as Steve (1.75 hrs per day more than Kurt) then you could be looking at

29km/h x 1.5 hrs (I'll let them have a 15 min rest if they like  :) ) = 43.5 km/day , x 365 days would give an additional total of approx. 15,800 km (9,900 miles)

Add that to Kurts likely record total of approx. 76,000 miles and you are looking at a new record of 86,000 miles.





Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Martin on December 12, 2015, 08:36:00 pm
It might be inappropriate for me to come into this current thread as an ex team member -- and the thinking may have changed a little or even a lot over the last 3 months -- but my pennorth is as follows.


Thanks FB, it would be nice to hear from the team where our financial support is going, how much is required for the challenge and indeed if there is to be a charity to receive the surplus if there is one as promised,

because apart from your postings we have received ZIP
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Legs on December 12, 2015, 09:33:02 pm
Excellent and detailed posting. Thank you for compiling and sharing with us and for your enormous help managing and setting up the Financial side of things. It is reassuring to read that the funds are all in place for Steve to continue riding the challenge  'his way'.  :thumbsup:
Call me a Jeremiah and all, but I think precisely the opposite: had I contributed financially to Steve's team's effort I would be expecting them to be working cohesively in an attempt to extract the very best performance possible.  Steve's ideals bear little resemblance to the way that Godwin attempted the record (motorised assistance for 5 months!), and bear virtually no resemblance to the record-holder-in-waiting's MO (a tight, communicative partnership exploiting whatever benefits they can extract.)  The one boundary that I, personally, would have reservations about crossing is that of the recumbent (ironically, though, Steve did that too!).

Don't get me wrong, I'm sure Steve's a splendid chap and all, but it all makes me care a little bit less about whether he's successful or not...  :(
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: andrew531 on December 12, 2015, 10:53:07 pm
I think that the fact that Steve wants to do it his way any not cut any legitimate corners or use any 'marginal gains' is credit to him. If he fails so be it. He tried. He's doing what he has probably done in audax for many a year. Kurt will probably exceed TG's record by about 1,000. Steve is likely to try and beat that by riding longer summer days.
Go Steve.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Wowbagger on December 12, 2015, 11:02:51 pm
No matter how determined, bloody-minded and athletic the protagonists, beating this record will inevitably involve a considerable slice of luck. Steve's luck for attempt 1 ran out on that fateful day in March. We have seen that even when he is riding well, he finds it very hard to maintain a sequence of >206 days for any length of time.

The fact is that Kurt's higher speed means he spends fewer hours in the saddle, has more recovery time and in that sense has a bit of slack that he can take up when needed. For that reason you could say that he needs less "luck" than Steve. However, he has had his fair share. He has been knocked off twice at least in his effort, and any sort of off involving a motor vehicle is likely to put you out of the game for a period. In that sense, Kurt has been lucky.

But the fact remains that Steve takes a lot more days than Kurt to build up a buffer and unless he can increase his speed significantly (and that, presumably, will mean increasing his heart rate) then his attempt will always be on a knife edge.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Arry-R on December 12, 2015, 11:41:41 pm
Keep zee dosh rolling in from diys /eces  mart-in    most welcome
Jeremiah legs a good read
Wowbagger - excellent

Steve WILL do it his way whatever other views are suggested
 :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: teethgrinder on December 13, 2015, 06:24:06 am
Just to put you all right.
I will take whatever advantage I can.
I am not doing most of what is suggested because I don't think they will work and some could potentially be very damaging.
No ideas are new and all have been considered.
Motor transfers will most likely happen.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Arry-R on December 13, 2015, 06:29:10 am
Excellent Steve and thanks for the message. Have a good day today  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: mattc on December 13, 2015, 08:12:21 am
Just to put you all right.
I will take whatever advantage I can.
I am not doing most of what is suggested because I don't think they will work and some could potentially be very damaging.
No ideas are new and all have been considered.
Motor transfers will most likely happen.
Well that settles that!

Thanks for the clarification Steve.
(what are we all going to argue about now?? )
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Martin on December 13, 2015, 09:48:46 pm
Keep zee dosh rolling in from diys /eces  mart-in    most welcome :

well as i'm not a diy org that might be tricky,

it's not just about keeping the dosh rolling in, it,s about getting some comms from Steve,s team rather than Steve who has better things to do, about where it,s all going and how productively that dosh is being put towards this serious world record attempt

just saying...

Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Wowbagger on December 14, 2015, 10:47:46 am
As a matter of interest, what was Godwin's average daily mileage after he passed the previous record in late October? I tried working it out from Jo's graph but couldn't do so in a way that convinced me that I had got it right.

It appears from the downturn in the TG line that he eased off a lot in November and December - hardly surprising for many reasons, not least of which were the wartime blackout. I was wondering what the mileage would have been had be kept up his pre-record-breaking daily average throughout the year.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: HK on December 14, 2015, 11:12:55 am

Just to put you all right.
I will take whatever advantage I can.
I am not doing most of what is suggested because I don't think they will work and some could potentially be very damaging.
No ideas are new and all have been considered.
Motor transfers will most likely happen.

I guess that tells us that where we stand with our debating.  Steve will ride the record his way, full stop.

With 30,000km in sight by the end of next week for my 2015 year (ridden around a full time job) I'm not sure I agree with Steve.

I would also say that Steve is now on what could be termed 'the new Godwin' of 340km a day to the end of the restart to cover miles lost plus what Kurt will probably add to the record - by my reckoning this new daily average would equal the potential new record.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: sg37409 on December 14, 2015, 12:14:10 pm
I hope Steve is not disheartened by Kurts mileage.   I think this record has been in Steves mind for years and I could quite imagine he feels pissed off, losing it to Kurt.  If it was me, then no amount of people saying that Kurts got easier conditions, better support, etc would assuage me that my efforts are still what count.   I hope Steve is tougher mentally than me (I am sure he must be).   

Kurt will most likely get the mileage record.  The past few weeks of riding laps of a local park convince me more than ever its a different record than a UK attempt.  Fantastic effort, Kurt and team.  (wonders what he'll do after completing a year. that must be an odd thing)

Go Steve :thumbsup:  Focus on the days riding only. Crank the mileage up a wee bit, get the graph lines trending upwards.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Karla on December 14, 2015, 12:21:50 pm
What "UK attempt"?  The record has been held by six Brits, but also two Frenchmen and two Aussies (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tommy_Godwin_(cyclist_born_1912)#World_endurance_records), and is now being governed by the USAnian UMCA. 

It's a world record, so let's not be so parochial!
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: red marley on December 14, 2015, 12:28:23 pm
I took that to mean 'riding roads in the UK'. It is possible to recognise that given the constraints (e.g. weather, distance, traffic etc.) an attempt that is based in the UK requires a particular strategy that might not be so relevant in other places. Oz and the US also have (a different) set of constraints that might suggest different strategies.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: sg37409 on December 14, 2015, 12:59:35 pm
"A UK attempt" - I meant a UK based attempt.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Fidgetbuzz on December 14, 2015, 02:26:32 pm
I will take whatever advantage I can.

When I was involved it was virtually impossible to speak to Steve, as he was so committed to riding that he had little time for anything else.. so that what might have been constructive thoughts were never able to be kicked around with him.

I still find it difficult to believe that the bikes he is riding are the best possible for the task in hand .. they maybe on bad days when he needs to carry kit .. but there are good weather days too ..so I would need some convincing to believe that bike choice is correct.  My impression was that before the huge wave of financial support was offered , these bikes were what he was offered for free -- so he and the team took them --then when it should have become at least a worth while topic of conversation.....    "" Hey we have enough cash to look at other ideas .. ie bikes , support vehicle etc etc ""  There was no way to discuss this with Steve directly - and no way to get a sensible discussion within the team.

So if Steves opening quote is now correct -- then it is a change in approach -- and maybe there are other areas that should be explored. AUK members and YACF members are  very supportive with cash and  would also be very likely to help with drafting, riding loops in the wind or round and round the MK bowl  .......  IF ONLY ..... this sort of support could be explored and harnessed.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: LittleWheelsandBig on December 14, 2015, 04:46:41 pm
I've made offers via a current team member...sound of crickets followed
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Fidgetbuzz on December 14, 2015, 05:21:11 pm
Too clever for me  -- crickets chirp ... but that does not seem relevant.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Veloman on December 14, 2015, 05:39:51 pm
I've made offers via a current team member...sound of crickets followed

Too clever for me  -- crickets chirp ... but that does not seem relevant.

I assume that following the silence that followed LWB's offer, the sound of the crickets became obvious.  Lots of discussion around the offer would have drowned-out the sound of the crickets.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Basil on December 14, 2015, 05:40:57 pm
Too clever for me  -- crickets chirp ... but that does not seem relevant.

Perhaps this was meant?

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v249/Bloke_on_a_bike/Mobile%20Uploads/1405290900646_zps607e1f23.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/Bloke_on_a_bike/media/Mobile%20Uploads/1405290900646_zps607e1f23.jpg.html)
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Jaded on December 14, 2015, 05:47:40 pm
I thought Australia lost the crickets?
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: drgannet on December 14, 2015, 06:13:11 pm
I thought Australia lost the crickets?

 ;D
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: macnark on December 14, 2015, 08:51:16 pm
Steve, if you ever need help, whether mechanical, food, or lodgings, and you are between Cambridge and MK, as you often are, feel free to give me a shout and I'll help if I can. I did email the team a while back but had no answer, so am happy to repeat here if it might help.

07858 402683

I live near the Airman Pub on the A507 Henlow/Shefford, and work near Sandy -  I know it's not far from base, but if the weather takes a show-stopping dive, or the wheels fall off, it may save a walk or a kip outside.

Totally in awe of what you are doing and wish you all the best in reaching your target! Keep at it, do it as you think best - I recon you have earned the right to call the shots!
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Chris S on December 14, 2015, 09:17:01 pm
Steve, if you ever need help, whether mechanical, food, or lodgings, and you are between Cambridge and MK, as you often are, feel free to give me a shout and I'll help if I can. I did email the team a while back but had no answer, so am happy to repeat here if it might help.

Stuff like this is what makes me wonder if there is "a team" at all?

That said, I've not tried emailing Kurt's "Team", and the same may apply.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Exit Stage Left on December 14, 2015, 10:04:47 pm
Steve's mentioned in the past that the paraphernalia required to upload the GPS details is what prevents him from moving far from home. It surprises me that no-one has streamlined that process.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: SoreTween on December 14, 2015, 10:12:24 pm
I guess that was one advantage of the old host system, one of the requirments of hosting was providing a computer for that job.  Now Steve, I believe, carries a laptop which is ballast most of the day.  Win some lose some.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: LittleWheelsandBig on December 14, 2015, 10:13:12 pm
There are ways to make it easier via his phone but nobody on his team has bothered to set it up.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Freya on December 14, 2015, 10:29:30 pm
He carries a laptop to upload results? Er. Technology has moved on from that I believe.  :facepalm:
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Jaded on December 14, 2015, 10:39:42 pm
Quote
"Excuse me while I suck your blood,
excuse me when I phone you,
I've got every one of your records, man,
doesn't that mean I own you?"
Oh, sure, I long ago decided to make myself an exponent
of public possession in the private obsession zone.

But now I'm serious, let's be serious,
I'm not selling you my soul,
try to put it in the records
but I've got to keep my life my own.
One thing I've not got a lot of is time
and it's slipping away...

I've got a life to live too.

Ah, here they come...
Vampires!
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: LMT on December 14, 2015, 10:45:58 pm
A laptop has got to be worth at least 15 watts.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Jaded on December 14, 2015, 11:01:36 pm
Depends on the power supply?
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Legs on December 15, 2015, 06:55:27 am
The problem, it seems to me, that Steve faces is one of mindset.  Self-sufficiency is essential in an Audax.  This need not be an Audax (as Kurt is proving.)  It seems utterly bewildering to me that he's squandering his chance to rack up much larger distances, cet par, by choosing to make it so much harder for himself. 

Did he ride with mudguards in the summer as well?  Ah, but the weather can change in the course of a day, I hear you cry!  But if you're sticking close enough to home to be able to swap bikes and clothes, that's not an issue...
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: DaveE128 on December 15, 2015, 10:47:39 am
See where you're coming from on that one, but with the mudguards, I'd think that time spent removing and refitting mudguards to suit the weather would be better spent accumulating miles, as I'm not sure you'd make that time back.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: LittleWheelsandBig on December 15, 2015, 10:50:35 am
Steve has 3 bikes and a mechanic.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Wowbagger on December 15, 2015, 10:50:57 am
I think the implication was that Steve should have a summer bike and a winter bike, one with mudguards and one without, and that if it rains he just nips home, because he is only doing local loops, and swap them.

Not that I can imagine myself doing anything like this in a million years, but if I did, I think the way to go nuts is to restrict yourself to local roads for the duration. I guess that Steve needs to see a bit of the country whilst he's attempting the record. Besides, Jo needs material for his heat maps.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: jochta on December 15, 2015, 10:54:04 am
Instead of doing long rides out and back wouldn't shorter figures of 8 or loops centred on home, or a clover leaf ride re-visiting base several times on a ride be more efficient? No need to carry so much stuff, ability to switch bikes/clothing to suit conditions etc.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: HK on December 15, 2015, 11:23:46 am
Yes Jochta et al, the hamster wheel approach has already been proved as the best way to deal with wind including not so round wheels.

If you take on any current road records it's going to involve looking at a piece of Tarmac a few metres in front of you. The men's record excludes spectating the countryside.

The women's record is still at a distance for a good capable AUK to do some interesting riding provides she is happy to break the record by a small amount.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: andyoxon on December 15, 2015, 11:31:06 am
I've also wondered why a 'hamster wheel', or a <10 lap circuit = 1 Godwin, hasn't really been done.  The other day I had a bit of a look on a routeplanner as to what would be a potentially good circuit in the MK area - and it's not that flat.  I think towards/around Bicester was possibly the least elevation.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Fidgetbuzz on December 15, 2015, 11:49:31 am
To the best of my knowledge there has NEVER been any team thought put into how best to maximise Steve's mileage over a time frame of any length -- whether that be 1, 2, 7, 31, or 365 days. Thought would require covering many strands -- bikes, nutrition, support,clothing , routes,  geography etc etc etc.. Total reliance was placed on Steves original assumption that he could beat Tommy by several thousand miles.. result .. this belief accepted as fact .. therefore no need to consider how best to tackle the challenge. Whereas I would suggest that Steve is at his limit to beat Tommy / Kurt and therefore needs to take advantage of every tiny gain possible  -- Brailsford -- marginal gains matter
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Kim on December 15, 2015, 11:59:45 am
See where you're coming from on that one, but with the mudguards, I'd think that time spent removing and refitting mudguards to suit the weather would be better spent accumulating miles, as I'm not sure you'd make that time back.

If we're going to argue about mudguards (and why not, we've debated everything else), how about "mudguards don't actually slow you down, other than by adding weight to the bike"?
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: jochta on December 15, 2015, 12:05:00 pm
See where you're coming from on that one, but with the mudguards, I'd think that time spent removing and refitting mudguards to suit the weather would be better spent accumulating miles, as I'm not sure you'd make that time back.

If we're going to argue about mudguards (and why not, we've debated everything else), how about "mudguards don't actually slow you down, other than by adding weight to the bike"?

They can't possibly be any good for the aerodynamics basically acting like a funnel/baffle to the air you're cycling into. Therefore increasing the air resistance and thus the power required to go at the same speed without.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: LittleWheelsandBig on December 15, 2015, 12:20:27 pm
Steve hasn't been able to consistently better 220 miles a day in ideal conditions. At the current rate that he is losing daily distance, he'll need to average something similar to that from January to August. Without a change of approach from Steve and his team to consistently maximise distance, the record is slipping out of his reach.

Again, I am available 24/7 from Christmas to New Year's Day inclusive to do whatever you want, be it towing Steve into headwinds, motorised support, transfers or anything else. You just have to decide what to do and bloody ask.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: LMT on December 15, 2015, 12:36:57 pm
To the best of my knowledge there has NEVER been any team thought put into how best to maximise Steve's mileage over a time frame of any length -- whether that be 1, 2, 7, 31, or 365 days. Thought would require covering many strands -- bikes, nutrition, support,clothing , routes,  geography etc etc etc.. Total reliance was placed on Steves original assumption that he could beat Tommy by several thousand miles.. result .. this belief accepted as fact .. therefore no need to consider how best to tackle the challenge. Whereas I would suggest that Steve is at his limit to beat Tommy / Kurt and therefore needs to take advantage of every tiny gain possible  -- Brailsford -- marginal gains matter

This kinda figures with the whole ''I'll just get on my bike and ride approach.''

I'd be more than tempted to take up LWAB's offer and see what a difference (I believe) it will make. A warm cup of hot chocolate and some pop tarts every 40 or so miles, along with a friendly encouraging word would only be a good thing surely.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Kim on December 15, 2015, 12:53:24 pm
If we're going to argue about mudguards (and why not, we've debated everything else), how about "mudguards don't actually slow you down, other than by adding weight to the bike"?

They can't possibly be any good for the aerodynamics basically acting like a funnel/baffle to the air you're cycling into. Therefore increasing the air resistance and thus the power required to go at the same speed without.

https://janheine.wordpress.com/2012/05/02/aerodynamics-of-real-world-bicycles/
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: jochta on December 15, 2015, 01:03:06 pm
If we're going to argue about mudguards (and why not, we've debated everything else), how about "mudguards don't actually slow you down, other than by adding weight to the bike"?

They can't possibly be any good for the aerodynamics basically acting like a funnel/baffle to the air you're cycling into. Therefore increasing the air resistance and thus the power required to go at the same speed without.

https://janheine.wordpress.com/2012/05/02/aerodynamics-of-real-world-bicycles/

"Well-mounted metal fenders do not affect the bike’s aerodynamics. The front section of each fender shields the tire and reduces the wind resistance, while the rear fender increases the aerodynamic drag. The two effects cancel each other."

As clear as mud. A front mudguard doesn't have a front section that shields the tyre so not sure what they are on about there and then they say the whole of the rear mudguard increases the drag.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Kim on December 15, 2015, 01:04:39 pm
Indeed.  But it's clearly not as simple as "can't possibly be any good for the aerodynamics".

Anyway, it's a marginal gain.  You worry about mudguards after you've gone recumbent.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: LittleWheelsandBig on December 15, 2015, 01:10:39 pm
Mr Heine is talking about very close-fitting mudguards that very few Brits use, mostly because of lack of clearance for mud. I suspect that the results would be worse with normal SKS mudguards but it is a not particularly large effect anyway.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: jochta on December 15, 2015, 01:18:56 pm
Indeed.  But it's clearly not as simple as "can't possibly be any good for the aerodynamics".

Anyway, it's a marginal gain.  You worry about mudguards after you've gone recumbent.

I'm happy for it to be proved one way or another. My gut feeling is that it "can't possibly be any good for the aerodynamics". And yep as they proved anything you do to the bike is pretty marginal compared to the rider's position and clothing.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Kim on December 15, 2015, 01:32:33 pm
Meanwhile, the absence of mudguards could lead to illness, saddle sores or just general misery, which are much bigger problems than a marginal detriment to aerodynamics.  I'd want them any time outside the typical two weeks of British 'summer' when it's dry enough that you can reasonably expect there not to be puddles of field run-off.

As with vehicle transfers and so on, I think it's mostly a case of Steve knowing what works, and having been too busy getting on with it to explore other possibilities that might help some of the time.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: HK on December 15, 2015, 01:34:42 pm
Sitting behind a strong large rider into a headwind would be helpful also.

With the record where TG left it, it requires thought and an excellent strategy as well as the physical talent to equal let alone break the record.  TG shouldn't be underestimated because the equipment, food and roads don't match 2015 standards.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: HK on December 15, 2015, 01:42:28 pm

Meanwhile, the absence of mudguards could lead to illness, saddle sores or just general misery, which are much bigger problems than a marginal detriment to aerodynamics.  I'd want them any time outside the typical two weeks of British 'summer' when it's dry enough that you can reasonably expect there not to be puddles of field run-off.

As with vehicle transfers and so on, I think it's mostly a case of Steve knowing what works, and having been too busy getting on with it to explore other possibilities that might help some of the time.

Steve's bike weighs the same as my winter Condor - wouldn't want to ride that for a 365 day record attempt compared to my light bike.

I'm not convinced that Steve knows what works. I've helped him on three 24s after it taking 8 plus years to persuade him that help would be useful as would gears and fast wheels.  Steve admitted that yes, all of these allowed him to go further once he tried them.

In Steve's defence I'd say that right now his brain is so fuzzy with miles the ability to think things through is not particularly brilliant. He needs someone with the right knowledge to think the issues through for him, then work with him to come up with something that Steve has confidence in and is going to make a difference.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Kim on December 15, 2015, 01:48:11 pm
I'm not convinced that Steve knows what works. I've helped him on three 24s after it taking 8 plus years to persuade him that help would be useful as would gears and fast wheels.  Steve admitted that yes, all of these allowed him to go further once he tried them.

That's an interesting insight, and seems to fit with my general impression of Steve's original plan being "go out and ride a 300 every day for a year".


Quote
In Steve's defence I'd say that right now his brain is so fuzzy with miles the ability to think things through is not particularly brilliant. He needs someone with the right knowledge to think the issues through for him, then work with him to come up with something that Steve has confidence in and is going to make a difference.

Indeed.  I imagine it's hard to do that retrospectively.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: zigzag on December 15, 2015, 02:04:36 pm
it's good to be stuck to your ways of doing things when you're in the flow. when things start to go pear shaped it's wise to listen to a coach or a mentor. let's hope for the winter without snow, no margin left for such events!
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: TimC on December 15, 2015, 02:50:53 pm
Steve has consistently said he'll do it his way, and no one can argue that he hasn't done that! But it became obvious in the summer that the mahoosive daily distances he'd planned on would not be consistently possible, even without weather, mopeds and bouts of sickness. The change of diet, however sensible prior to embarking on this challenge, really didn't help his daily distances - though it may well be that it was medically necessary.

The evidence suggest that Steve knows what he's doing - and that may be part of the problem. What he's doing is what he knows, and it's not working out how it needs to. If he can take up LWaB's offer, that could make a big difference - it's worked for Kurt.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: andyoxon on December 15, 2015, 03:33:55 pm
Not a suggestion as such, more just a thought about some kind of 'local' circuit; and there's probably a good reason why not...

Steve's favorite route to Marsh Gibbon (has to be), then ~5-6 laps of:

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/Qg-1nJPpmvRle6R-JEERKLeX6Qwwy_8a-dsSUv4DCiqD74ZmZTQv023AxeMzlmVdc4S1pt4AWsZ5aQfGzLeAlkNMbLhgTRJ7E06tNh6da5WxhZ3hDnBg0uMPByODFeqG6Kz2KKlaj6fdtsr1byeQCMhclAPH32XS-ogcAns-ZM5X2nXRGV6BhzxdmgA-NcOrSYDh3DrK633MbNAc2lLzUaAEKvslD2Ysrl0QcIUw_JqirT370cU87lG32WMVWamSQeSz7i0BaaPWCgRb29O3Y8Je-dbpLnEMOj9YqtaXhuSvzKj795bt28tMFmbg3Dj5UCiF-GG-4XdJ8oScmozqNfuJGbfOy9A2Hmh-TkvYbyqwma8c-Uss_1SrGRjN6gGn3kP45XHFr3nOqeL_J6-16NSNu3pVHPpq06uyLDziezsLhRqku0rRlE73hQ1jMw-HGW8kpcvk8H1HLP9aYG3W3oq4LVg9Bdl_o9HDdPdk0boYODOOXcO9GFBor3UyZU_9PGUYeQbe8MgbLM4S0Amw06abszRk_CabFXPOMidpKfhA-8NWmQVXoYGQbGrm7OAa1yjJ=w633-h640-no)

So more of a 'yoyo'...
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: aoxomoxoa on December 15, 2015, 03:41:41 pm
Crossing the A41 near Blackthorn can be a right pig. Certainly wouldn't fancy it in poor visibility/weather during busy periods. Other than that it's not a bad route with a few undulations - the regular stamping ground for my club - Bicester Millennium CC.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: macnark on December 15, 2015, 03:44:18 pm
Ideally a loop would only have left turns so that you can keep left always and never need to come towards the centre of the road or cross oncoming traffc.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: rafletcher on December 15, 2015, 03:44:44 pm
Crossing the A41 near Blackthorn can be a right pig.

That was my immediate thought. Also the elevation gain is quite high compared to that for a similar circuit in the fens. This is where kurts strategy of a mobile "home" would come into it's won.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: andyoxon on December 15, 2015, 03:58:38 pm
Yes, Fens circuit would be good from a Travelodge (or host).  Book in for a few days and... go for it. 

Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: aoxomoxoa on December 15, 2015, 03:59:22 pm
Ideally a loop would only have left turns so that you can keep left always and never need to come towards the centre of the road or cross oncoming traffc.

Good point. Maybe tweak the route to go straight on from Caversfield to Launton, then take a left into Station Road. Would avoid the stretch on the busy A4421 with a right turn across traffic towards Stratton Audley.

/edit/ just realised that I've assumed a clockwise circuit, but anti-clockwise might be better.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Legs on December 15, 2015, 04:16:51 pm
30 miles is too long a loop - it needs to be short enough that Steve can quickly bolt for home in poor weather or pick up food.  Short loops make it easy to meet up with local riders and to get them to help.  I suggested two ~5mile routes a few pages ago.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: andyoxon on December 15, 2015, 04:38:28 pm
My gut (FWIW) is that 5mls would be too short*; but in the immediate MK area it would probably need to be shorter to keep elevation down...  On a 30-50km loop people would still have a reasonable chance of locating/meeting/supplying Steve. 

*despite Steve having done the MK bowl.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Jaded on December 15, 2015, 04:42:08 pm
15,000 loops of the same route sounds a tad dull.   :o
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: mattc on December 15, 2015, 04:48:08 pm
15,000 loops of the same route sounds a tad dull.   :o
er ... yes.

Surely its fairly accepted that this is a tough mental challenge the way Steve is currently doing it? I don't see making him ride 20km loops of MK (or surroundings) is gonna help.

He's an adventurer, a cycle-tourist if you will. This is a chance to see some countryside. Let's see the rest of you ride 12x30km loops/day just for a WEEK!
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: LittleWheelsandBig on December 15, 2015, 04:53:18 pm
If Steve wants an adventure that is one thing but he has signed up to beat the record. That is the objective, not going out and having a good time.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: mattc on December 15, 2015, 05:07:40 pm
If Steve wants an adventure that is one thing but he has signed up to beat the record. That is the objective, not going out and having a good time.
So I guess you don't see the mental side as important?

We shall have to disagree on this.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Wowbagger on December 15, 2015, 05:12:06 pm
If Steve wants an adventure that is one thing but he has signed up to beat the record. That is the objective, not going out and having a good time.

One of the points made before the start of the challenge at this time last year was the different approaches that Kurt & Steve were taking. Steve was doing it as a audaxer, Kurt as a racer. I think it was Steve himself who made that point, but I am not sure. I think it was on a television news interview where he first mentioned Kurt. "He's really fast. This will be like the hare and the tortoise." I think were the words he used.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: toontra on December 15, 2015, 05:14:30 pm
This will be like the hare and the tortoise." I think were the words he used.

That's the problem.  There aren't enough hours in the day for the tortoise approach unfortunately, and that's been clear from early on.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Legs on December 15, 2015, 05:15:42 pm
If Steve wants an adventure that is one thing but he has signed up to beat the record. That is the objective, not going out and having a good time.
So I guess you don't see the mental side as important?
We shall have to disagree on this.
Obviously Steve doesn't see the mental side important enough to want to have company on his rides...
This will be like the hare and the tortoise." I think were the words he used.
That's the problem.  There aren't enough hours in the day for the tortoise approach unfortunately, that that's been clear from early on.
...and this particular hare ain't having no nap.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: rafletcher on December 15, 2015, 05:16:26 pm
And nor is the hare close to tiring.

Edit: cross post with above  8)
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: LMT on December 15, 2015, 07:02:22 pm
If Steve wants an adventure that is one thing but he has signed up to beat the record. That is the objective, not going out and having a good time.
So I guess you don't see the mental side as important?

We shall have to disagree on this.

Only in as much as you need the mental toughness to know what needs to get done in order to get the record.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: mattc on December 15, 2015, 07:09:50 pm
I was beginning to find this thread depressing reading ...

but then LMT offers lessons for Steve in mental toughness.

Brilliant!   ;D   :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: flashpeddler on December 15, 2015, 07:31:17 pm
I could never do this, I lack both the mental and physical ability.  But if I could, my strategy would be:
I would be UK based - I love cycling in Britain
I would never, ever ride into wind
I would have full time camper van support, this would transfer me downwind.  Van would have a fixed bed for instant rest.
I would have full time support and would meet them at no more than 50 mile intervals
I'd use regular (daily) sports massages etc
Bike would be light weight carbon with minimal weight additions - wouldn't need much as would meet support every 3ish hours
I'd want every turn of the pedal to give max benefit - therefore minimal climbing - never more than 1000ft per 100 miles.
I'd publish my intended route based on forecast wind and invite experienced people to come and draft me - I like company too.
Daytime breaks would be minimum time possible - I like my 8 hours sleep so would want sustainable meals all ready to go when I stopped and then have as long off the bike as possible at night
I'd target the record plus a few miles - I don't think large increases are feasible
Finally, my crew chief would be as easy on the eye as Alicia and not have a face like a stunt man's knee!!!!  ;D
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: LMT on December 15, 2015, 07:44:50 pm
I was beginning to find this thread depressing reading ...

but then LMT offers lessons for Steve in mental toughness.

Brilliant!   ;D   :thumbsup:

Was not offering Steve anything, you'll do well not to misinterpret my words. You think Kurt enjoyed doing those loops a couple of months ago in Arkansas? Or was it the fact that he knew what the craic was and just got on with it - that's the type of mental toughness I'm referring to. I'm sorry to say but simply riding your bike won't get you this record. And if it is true what I've read from past members of his team that no thought has been given the most efficient way of churning out the miles then this is staggeringly arrogant - and it's rather sad to see but he is currently paying the price. I'd gladly be prove wrong of course...
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: mattc on December 15, 2015, 08:06:41 pm
I was beginning to find this thread depressing reading ...

but then LMT offers lessons for Steve in mental toughness.

Brilliant!   ;D   :thumbsup:

Was not offering Steve anything, you'll do well not to misinterpret my words.
What an odd thing to write; are you saying your posts are ambiguous?

Keep 'em coming :)
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Martin on December 15, 2015, 09:09:38 pm
And nor is the hare close to tiring.


just adding some rather "hard to swallow" ingredients to a humble pie I'm making for a resident of This Parish (wink; doesn't work on W10)
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Grampa on December 15, 2015, 11:15:54 pm
Quote
I would have full time camper van...
I'd.... invite experienced people to come and draft me

Who  needs experienced people?!!
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Jaded on December 15, 2015, 11:20:25 pm
I was beginning to find this thread depressing reading ...

but then LMT offers lessons for Steve in mental toughness.

Brilliant!   ;D   :thumbsup:

Was not offering Steve anything, you'll do well not to misinterpret my words. You think Kurt enjoyed doing those loops a couple of months ago in Arkansas? Or was it the fact that he knew what the craic was and just got on with it - that's the type of mental toughness I'm referring to. I'm sorry to say but simply riding your bike won't get you this record. And if it is true what I've read from past members of his team that no thought has been given the most efficient way of churning out the miles then this is staggeringly arrogant - and it's rather sad to see but he is currently paying the price. I'd gladly be prove wrong of course...

I think you'd probably hate it...  ;D
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Ham on December 15, 2015, 11:55:59 pm
Current thoughts on the record attempt? Well, both Steve and Kurt have proved themselves worthy contenders. I don't think I am in a position to give advice to either of them, despite being able to ride a bike. What is needed is as far from my experience and understanding as racing up the Tourmalet with the pro peleton and as useful as telling Sagan he needs to turn his pedals faster to win (even if it is factually correct). I'm constantly impressed by the the quality of advice and experience that, if only Steve would adopt, he would be doing better.

What do I think? It is really sad that we are all more than a little downbeat with the apparent direction of Steve's record attempt travel. That he has cycled 60,000 miles in a year in which he broke his ankle is beyond astonishing to me and speaks of a doggedness and determination that should put his critics to shame (but won't, I'm sure). I actually don't have very much doubt that had he avoided injury he would have been successful with his strategy. When I heard the news I  - I'm sure along with many - thought the opportunity was over, we were probably right. But, Steve has earned the right to plough his own furrow as long as he choses.

Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: TimC on December 16, 2015, 05:19:16 am
I read the 'advice' as simply a bunch of concerned supporters of Steve seeing his incredible efforts losing their way a bit and desperately offering suggestions that might help him get back on track. I don't think anyone's suggesting they know better than him how to do this, but they can see that it's not going the way it needs to if he's to succeed in his quest to beat Tommy. If it ends up that he doesn't make it, no-one would ever suggest that it wasn't for lack of trying - but we'd all prefer that he does make it!

Perhaps it doesn't help that Kurt is riding at the same time and, for a number of reasons - not least slightly better luck - he's likely to succeed, so, naturally, people will urge Steve to adopt some of the techniques that have worked for Kurt. They may be inappropriate, impossible, or just not right for Steve, but they aren't suggested in a spirit of 'knowing better', simply looking for anything that might help.

There's no-one here that wishes anything but the best for Steve, I'm quite sure of that.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: falcon on December 16, 2015, 06:18:48 am
I'm beginning to think that the record needs to be split a bit like the hour record did a few years ago....
One based on a pure Godwin effort like Steve is doing and a Kurt record which is assisted, car transfers etc. Comparing Steve and Kurt is comparing apples and pears, it's not like for like.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: falcon on December 16, 2015, 06:19:04 am
Just my ten penneth and I am in awe of both!
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Wowbagger on December 16, 2015, 06:30:23 am
I'm beginning to think that the record needs to be split a bit like the hour record did a few years ago....
One based on a pure Godwin effort like Steve is doing and a Kurt record which is assisted, car transfers etc. Comparing Steve and Kurt is comparing apples and pears, it's not like for like.
UMCA have split it, into age categories. Steve will hold the 40 - 50 yo record for his >60k miles. I suspect that that will remain a record for someone who broke an ankle part-way through for the duration of human history. Even Kurt hasn't managed that, the big girl's blouse.  :P
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Frank9755 on December 16, 2015, 06:58:06 am
I'm beginning to think that the record needs to be split a bit like the hour record did a few years ago....
One based on a pure Godwin effort like Steve is doing and a Kurt record which is assisted, car transfers etc. Comparing Steve and Kurt is comparing apples and pears, it's not like for like.

Tommy Godwin was a racer who rode as fast as he could on the fastest bikes of his day, with the support of a team when he could get it.  Kurt is absolutely riding in the same spirit.  Steve says that he has considered a whole range of things and ruled them out, not on purist/ideological grounds but because he doesn't think they will work (although some of us don't agree with that).  It's a race: there isn't. and never has been, a record for doing it audax-stylee, Steve is not claiming any moral high ground by adopting such an approach and I can't imagine he would be happy with a consolation 'audax-class' record.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Frank9755 on December 16, 2015, 07:07:50 am
Meanwhile, the absence of mudguards could lead to illness, saddle sores or just general misery, which are much bigger problems than a marginal detriment to aerodynamics.  I'd want them any time outside the typical two weeks of British 'summer' when it's dry enough that you can reasonably expect there not to be puddles of field run-off.

As with vehicle transfers and so on, I think it's mostly a case of Steve knowing what works, and having been too busy getting on with it to explore other possibilities that might help some of the time.

Mudguards are a small thing, but read this, by a guy who has thought about them for a long ride and how to get the benefit while minimising the aero penalty. 

http://www.murray-white.net/tcr/index.html?bikeGear&wheels (http://www.murray-white.net/tcr/index.html?bikeGear&wheels)

"On the rear wheel, I don’t extend the fender down as far as normal because that only protects people riding behind, which they are not allowed to do in the TCR, so my rear fender finishes about level with the brake bridge on the seatstays. The rear fender extends all the way forwards to the bottom bracket, because otherwise the tire deposits a lot of water and dirt directly onto the chain near the front derailleur. The fenders are all highly modified, cut up, and use custom mounting hardware to make them work with my bike and other equipment."

Then, ask yourself why Steve has a rear mudflap fitted when he is not riding with anyone else.  The marginal losses do add up!
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Polar Bear on December 16, 2015, 07:21:51 am
This thread reminds me that cyclists are no better than or different to football fans.

Most of the crowd think that they are tactically more astute than the manager of their favourite team, and also seem to magically know which players would fit best into the team.   Funny then that they are not all running successful football clubs.  No?

In the crowd there are the ultras, those there to rip up the seats, throw flares, fight with anybody including amongst themselves.   Then there are the neutrals, there to enjoy the beautiful game.   Finally, you get the died in the wool hardcore loyal supporters who will remain faithful to their first love 'in sickness and in health'.   

Me?  Oh, I'm here to enjoy the beautiful game.  :D   
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Wowbagger on December 16, 2015, 07:54:30 am
In chess, we call them kibitzers*. The great thing is that the star players genuinely rub shoulders with the woodpushers* and after the game, everything is replayed in slow motion with a crowd standing around watching and listening to the grandmasters. That way, you get the benefit of what did happen and an exploration of a lot of the possibilities that didn't.

Matthew Sadler, who at his peak was something like World no 7 and against whom I have a 50% record  :smug:, always used to sit with his mother after his games and show them to her. I don't think she was any better than a pretty basic player, but it was always really interesting because he would explain his thoughts to her and those of us who could play a bit would get the benefit of his explanation.

*terms introduced by Bobby Fischer
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: andyoxon on December 16, 2015, 08:16:31 am
It pretty much goes without saying that there is a sense of continual amazement, and a real element of 'we are not worthy' when it comes to Steve's achievements to date, and yet in this context people do seem to have current and differing thoughts/opinions on the record attempt  :)
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Ham on December 16, 2015, 08:18:21 am
I read the 'advice' as simply a bunch of concerned supporters of Steve seeing his incredible efforts losing their way a bit and desperately offering suggestions that might help him get back on track. I don't think anyone's suggesting they know better than him how to do this, but they can see that it's not going the way it needs to if he's to succeed in his quest to beat Tommy. If it ends up that he doesn't make it, no-one would ever suggest that it wasn't for lack of trying - but we'd all prefer that he does make it!

Perhaps it doesn't help that Kurt is riding at the same time and, for a number of reasons - not least slightly better luck - he's likely to succeed, so, naturally, people will urge Steve to adopt some of the techniques that have worked for Kurt. They may be inappropriate, impossible, or just not right for Steve, but they aren't suggested in a spirit of 'knowing better', simply looking for anything that might help.

There's no-one here that wishes anything but the best for Steve, I'm quite sure of that.

I'm not suggesting that anyone wishes Steve ill, but I think you are plain wrong in your analysis (although there is a spectrum where you are right at one end ;) ). There are many that have, since day 1, expressed their opinion that he would be better doing x, y or z.  Sharing the benefit of their experience from riding, say 10,000 miles in a year, because that's the way to ride 75,000 miles a year. Well, I've done the first and I understand that doing the second is an entirely different beast, no matter that both are done on bikes.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: TheRedEyeJedi on December 16, 2015, 08:56:12 am
Personally I think the approach Steve has taken is fascinating - mostly because it seems so unbelievable cruel to himself both mentally and physically.   The record has kind of drifted into the background for me when viewing Steves attempt as it seems very clear that the only way it can be beaten is to ride short, fast circuits multiple times in a bunch or to have long straight roads in a massive country with motorized support and transfers.   I find Steves approach impossible to comprehend - but I do respect it for what it is, and find it compelling.

I now don't believe the record can be broken in Britain, by someone riding out and back, on a heavy touring bike with loads of extra layers and kit on board.   I just think hes giving himself a beating chasing the record with the wrong kit and the wrong routes.   My opinion has only really changed to this viewpoint recently after seeing what Kurt has been doing on his loop approach.

I have tried to ride long winter routes a few times in my short cycling history and found it really hard  - the extra layers and heavier kit, the cold lonely food breaks, the battering from the elements miles from home - it just isn't my thing.   Yesterday I had a day off and fancied a long ride - but I thought I would see how a circuit approach worked.   So I spent the first 3 hours riding a 3 mile loop around my house.   It has a mile long but very gradual and easy climb,  followed by a mile of flat then a mile of down.    I averaged 17mph for those 3 hours and seemingly put very little effort in.   Then I set off and did a 30 mile loop, where I average 16mph and then back home again for more 3mile loops and I finished 100 miles in 6 hours, which is a PB century for me by close to an hour.

There is no science here what so ever, but it did occur to me that short circuits around my house meant I could nip back every couple of hours for a coffee and food, I was then warm and refreshed and saving time faffing on the roadside.   I also found it easy to maintain 17mph average which is something I havnt been near on a century ride before.    If I had of removed my bike packing kit, had a carbon race bike with tri bars and had a team of riders to draft and a masseuse booked for the evening then I could really start to see the possibilities.

Yes its boring - but short, favorable circuits close to a base is without doubt in my mind the only way for a British rider to get through a winter with the record intact.  People have said this approach will harm Steve mentally - seems to me like some fast, easy miles for a few weeks would do his mental state the world of good!

Im not saying that's what Steve should do - because this thing should be what he wants to make it - and I have loved following his progress.   Hes still going to be a record holder and a British cycling legend - I just cant see the record being broken unless he changes it up, drastically and quickly
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: LEE on December 16, 2015, 09:15:11 am
I think it depends on HOW Steve wants to break the record.
There's no point in him breaking the record if he's not happy with the way he did it.  Would Steve be happy being driven/flown to sunnier places, with flatter roads? Transplanted to more favourable conditions?

Steve may or may not take the record back from Kurt (assuming Kurt stays healthy) next summer, but I'm fairly sure that, if he does, he'll be the very last person to set the record on British roads, through a British winter, Tommy Godwin style.

I see the record as a sort of English Channel swimming record, you can't just transplant it to a warm swimming pool and think it's the same challenge.

The differences in cycling warm and cycling cold are huge.

Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Tim Hall on December 16, 2015, 09:16:14 am
In chess, we call them kibitzers*.
<snip>

*terms introduced by Bobby Fischer

<wildly OT>

I think kibitzer predates Bobby Fischer.  I first encountered "kibitz" in Moonraker, where it was used in relation to working out what cards an opponent had and Wikipedia tells me Moonraker was published in 1955, when Bobby Fischer was 12.  Of course he may well have been responsible for bringing the term to chess.

</wildly OT>
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: LittleWheelsandBig on December 16, 2015, 09:30:25 am
HK and I supported Steve through multiple 24hr TTs but it took years of arguments to get him to take advantage of our support (and finally admit that it made a big difference). Some of us do know what we are talking about and Steve, like most folk, can be wrong, even with regards to riding megamiles.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Wowbagger on December 16, 2015, 09:34:19 am
In chess, we call them kibitzers*.
<snip>

*terms introduced by Bobby Fischer

<wildly OT>

I think kibitzer predates Bobby Fischer.  I first encountered "kibitz" in Moonraker, where it was used in relation to working out what cards an opponent had and Wikipedia tells me Moonraker was published in 1955, when Bobby Fischer was 12.  Of course he may well have been responsible for bringing the term to chess.

</wildly OT>

You are right.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Kibitzer

I had always assumed that it was Fischer's, largely, I suppose, because of its American-Jewish association (and despite his later life rantings, he was born an American Jew) and the fact that he was by far the best US chess player of his era, and by a shorter distance and time, the world's best player.

I have no idea if there is a Russian equivalent of "kibitzer".
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Karla on December 16, 2015, 09:35:42 am
Current thoughts on the record attempt? Well, both Steve and Kurt have proved themselves worthy contenders. I don't think I am in a position to give advice to either of them, despite being able to ride a bike. What is needed is as far from my experience and understanding as racing up the Tourmalet with the pro peleton and as useful as telling Sagan he needs to turn his pedals faster to win (even if it is factually correct). I'm constantly impressed by the the quality of advice and experience that, if only Steve would adopt, he would be doing better.

I do remember that a month or two before the start of the record attempt, Steve came on here, announced his attempt and said something to the effect of "So, aero equipment, what's all that about then?"  It's fine if he didn't know that sort of stuff, but asking about it on an internet forum shortly before the start isn't the way to go about things!  He also originally planned to do the record with a much more low-budget modus operandi than he's ended up doing now that other people have got on board to be his team: he'd been intending to do it basically off the back of his own savings, and had made some comment like "I've found a pair of tribars I like that only cost £30" as evidence of his cost-cutting.  In my (hopefully not particularly controversial) opinion, starting a year's record attempt by saving a couple of hundred quid on a few sets of tribars isn't getting things in correct proportion.  So while he obviously has a lot of relevant experience in many elements of the record attempt, he isn't beyond critique. 
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: mrcharly-YHT on December 16, 2015, 09:43:20 am
Kurt had similar issues. Ended up posting requests for better tyres, could people send him inner tubes. Asking what was the best rack for a car, because he'd had bikes drop off his several times. Saddle sores and suggested saddles.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Wowbagger on December 16, 2015, 09:46:00 am
Indeed. Early on, his preparation looked quite shoddy compared to Steve's. There was one day when he had about 4 broken bikes and not one working one IIRC.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Frank9755 on December 16, 2015, 09:48:59 am
Kurt has learned as he has gone along, fixed / upgraded his equipment, fine-tuned his approach and adapted to changes in circumstances.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Jack_P on December 16, 2015, 10:15:31 am
Quote
That's the problem.  There aren't enough hours in the day for the tortoise approach unfortunately, and that's been clear from early on.
To me its become apparent that this is a "racers" record. Tommy and now Kurt are Elite level athletes who can ride fast enough to get the required recovery to do it again and again, what ever the location.

Steves performance is mind blowing but his long steady approach appears to causing fatigue problems. Recently one of his Strava posts stated "Finally got some payback for all the headwinds I have fought" and he put in an admirable 233 miles, but it was at a moving average of 15.3 mph and an elapsed time of 20 hours. Just no comparison to Kurts long rides from A-B

Is Steve now effectively 2300 miles behind Kurt (Steve 1300 below and Kurt +1000 above the Godwin line) 10 days riding ...crikey :-\

Steve is a hero and has beyond doubt set a years distance record in the UK that anyone will find hard to beat in modern times.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Legs on December 16, 2015, 10:16:15 am
Kurt has learned as he has gone along, fixed / upgraded his equipment, fine-tuned his approach and adapted to changes in circumstances.
whereas...
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Wowbagger on December 16, 2015, 10:37:46 am
Kurt has learned as he has gone along, fixed / upgraded his equipment, fine-tuned his approach and adapted to changes in circumstances.
whereas...

As I said a few pages back, Steve's options are much more limited that Kurt's because his average speed is about 4mph slower. That's 48 miles over a 12 hour day.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: LEE on December 16, 2015, 10:55:02 am
Kurt has learned as he has gone along, fixed / upgraded his equipment, fine-tuned his approach and adapted to changes in circumstances.
whereas...

As I said a few pages back, Steve's options are much more limited that Kurt's because his average speed is about 4mph slower. That's 48 miles over a 12 hour day.

I have to say that, for me, the record should be done as one continuous bike ride.  You start the day from where you finished the previous evening.
Once you start driving between starting locations you open this up to Team SKY using a luxurious tour bus to drive you repeatedly South West overnight, or to wherever the prevailing winds are blowing from.  Taken to its logical extreme you can start flying your rider to the flattest roads with the strongest tailwinds.

At some point it becomes similar to swimming the English Channel in a heated swimming pool.

I foresee various categories of the record emerging, just like Everest Ascents (Everest with oxygen, without oxygen, not carrying a piano, carrying a piano..etc).

It's a shame the record was ratified, and had its profile raised, before Steve could just get on with beating the original record, Godwin Style.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Mr Larrington on December 16, 2015, 11:00:46 am
In chess, we call them kibitzers*.
<snip>

*terms introduced by Bobby Fischer

<wildly OT>

I think kibitzer predates Bobby Fischer.  I first encountered "kibitz" in Moonraker, where it was used in relation to working out what cards an opponent had and Wikipedia tells me Moonraker was published in 1955, when Bobby Fischer was 12.  Of course he may well have been responsible for bringing the term to chess.

</wildly OT>

One of the P-51 fighters in Len Deighton's Goodbye Mickey Mouse was called "The Kibitzer".
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Karla on December 16, 2015, 11:02:02 am
'Godwin Style' is where you're sponsored by a major bike manufacturer and have a car slipstraming pacing following and supporting you for half the year, right?
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: toontra on December 16, 2015, 12:40:22 pm
As soon as you start splitting the record into categories, where do you stop?  I can think of at least 6 clear distinctions (recumbent use, car transfers, on-road support, different start-stop points, drafting other riders, multiple countries, etc), presumably each with their own age-related sub-categories, and even then you can be sure someone would ask for another to be added. It's not long before the "record" becomes meaningless as you could have 30 simultaneous "holders".

There is now, at last, a record with (fairly) clearly defined rules, thanks mainly to Steve.  It's up to potential challengers whether they are willing to sign up to those rules and, if so, how they can maximise them to their advantage.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: hillbilly on December 16, 2015, 12:50:32 pm
It is sobering to see Steve slipping ever further behind the target pace set by Tommy (and from around 5 January, Kurt). 

I don't expect any but a handful of people know if it's because his strategy is wrong, he has made a calamitous decision (diet change?), has simply been unfortunate, or is not up to the task.

All I feel I can do is hope Steve gets stronger, sooner.  And offer occasional words of support.  I'm humble enough to realise that nothing somebody like me can suggest will make a significant difference to the outcome for Steve, particularly in the short term where any material change might be overly disruptive and so compound the current issues (whatever they are). 

Steve has perhaps always had his work cut out because of the self-sufficient approach he chose.  What is possibly becoming clearer is that he lacks a consistent, keen edge of speed endurance that marks out Kurt (and apparently Bruce) and which would give more flexibility when the chips are fully down.  Ranking Steve's longest distance days against Kurt's is quite informative, particularly if average speed/time on the bike is also included.

If I'm honest, I'm currently pessimistic about Steve's chances and I don't think there is much he can do to fully reverse this situation.  That Steve is doing it his own way is to his credit, as it means that any success or lack of it will reflect what he thought was best.  Hopefully my pessimism will turn out to simply be ignorance of Steve's strength and he is successful in reaching whatever goal he has set.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: mattc on December 16, 2015, 12:56:14 pm
I have to say that, for me, the record should be done as one continuous bike ride.  You start the day from where you finished the previous evening.
Once you start driving between starting locations you open this up to Team SKY using a luxurious tour bus to drive you repeatedly South West overnight, or to wherever the prevailing winds are blowing from.  Taken to its logical extreme you can start flying your rider to the flattest roads with the strongest tailwinds.

At some point it becomes similar to swimming the English Channel in a heated swimming pool.

I foresee various categories of the record emerging, just like Everest Ascents (Everest with oxygen, without oxygen, not carrying a piano, carrying a piano..etc).
I'm slowly coming round to the same thinking.

Forgive me for repeating this excellent analogy:
At some point it becomes similar to swimming the English Channel in a heated swimming pool.

 ;D
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Kim on December 16, 2015, 12:59:57 pm
That's just the nature of making and breaking records though.  If you find rules and categories distasteful, just go for a bike ride[1].


[1] Uphill both ways.  In the snow.  On fixed.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: TheRedEyeJedi on December 16, 2015, 02:23:11 pm
Kurt is doing huge miles, quickly while expanding as little energy as possible - by riding a flat, fast circuit in a bunch on a lightweight bike.   He is actually doing better with this approach than when he was using tail winds and motorized transfers.   Yes he has a decent climate - but Kurt is going to comfortably beat the record with a pretty low budget, self funded approach with a team of 1 person assisting....so I think all this talk of the record becoming unobtainable and elite is a bit silly.   Im pretty sure a Team Sky could provide a better bunch to ride with and faster kit - but I don't think spending money on logistics and transfers is the key to breaking the record.

I don't think this record does need a huge budget or a special climate to be broken - but I am pretty convinced you wont beat Kurt by regularly riding 100+ mile into the wind, on a heavy bike with touring kit on.   I am astonished and in awe of the miles Steve has done with his current approach over the space of the last year, but also convinced Kurt has the best approach - the results of each method are there for everyone to see.   There is no logistical or financial reason why Steve could not follow Kurts approach from the last couple of months.  It may not sit well with those used to Audaxing/touring, but this isn't a British Audax record - Steve already has that.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: bryn on December 16, 2015, 03:32:53 pm
Like everyone else here, I've been following this amazing attempt since 00:01 on January 1st., and Steve's tracker and mileages are the first things I look at when I wake up, and the last things I look at when I turn out the light.

Back when one-legged riding around the bowl was underway Steve was talking about still being able to break the record by the end of 2015.  Then that slowly drifted out of sight and the new 12 month period was announced.  The recent combination of illness, diet change, and stormy weather seems to make the final achievable total uncertain.  Steve has had a few very bad days recently.  Today he has been riding for 10 hours, with 188 km on the Ivan-Google clock.  I know I'm a glass-half-empty person, but it doesn't look good.  Hope I'm wrong.

BTW "kibitz" (with various spellings) is Yiddish meaning "unwanted advice".  We could rename this "The Kibitz Thread"  ;D
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Bus Shelter Bertie on December 16, 2015, 04:49:19 pm
As I see it, this record is a single statistic. Ways and means to me are irrelevant and rules are unnecessary. The record is "Greatest number of miles cycled in a year". We know the definition of cycling - no motors, no external power source, some sort of cyclic motion. Environmental forces,eg. gravity, slipstreaming are only forces employed to increase cycling efficiency.

So for example, get Steve to a long straight warm road in Australia (preferably downhill). Employ a full time truck driver to provide the full time slipstream. Count the miles. Easy.

For me, all this talk of athletic ability and fair play and categories are a distraction from the one simple statistic and who holds it. The record holder and future holders will be for those that understand this, and all will have earned the record fairly. Don't tell me that Tommy Godwin was concerned with rules, he just wanted a bigger number than anyone else.

Go Kurt. Go Steve.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: simonp on December 16, 2015, 05:33:35 pm
Now stopped on the way into Peterborough for the last hour.

Maybe time for dinner.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Ivo on December 16, 2015, 05:57:26 pm
I've done a bit of 24 hour speedskating events, they usually take place on a 400m track. I quit doing them because they are utterly mind numbing and give an enormous stress to your body due to the onesided movement. I can perfectly understand why Steve doesn't want to take the approach Kurt has at this moment, riding around on the same stretch of route all the time. Your mind is more important as your body during all sorts of long distance events.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Arry-R on December 16, 2015, 06:02:56 pm
HK and I supported Steve through multiple 24hr TTs but it took years of arguments to get him to take advantage of our support (and finally admit that it made a big difference). Some of us do know what we are talking about and Steve, like most folk, can be wrong, even with regards to riding megamiles.





Has your kind offer to help shortly been accepted yet? ?
I hope he is not completely shunning offers such as yours.  We all want him to increase his miles not continue the downward spiral of some 1300 miles already.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Bobby on December 16, 2015, 06:11:45 pm
"Current thoughts on the record attempt?"

It remains a ridiculously hard thing for anybody to do no matter what their approach or beliefs & I remain in owe of Kurt and Steve with what the have achieved.  Like others I check Jo's graphs first thing every morning & tap into many of the threads last thing at night.

It does all seem a bit gloomy for Steve at the moment.  I have to believe the diet change was out of necessity & whilst it's clearly had a big impact, Steve surely didn't have a choice. 

In general I hope Steve is not disheartened or feeling the pressure of expectation/opinion.  I cannot comprehend the mental strength required to do this every day.

Go Steve, Go Kurt
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: mattc on December 16, 2015, 06:13:51 pm
I am astonished and in awe of the miles Steve has done with his current approach over the space of the last year, but also convinced Kurt has the best approach - the results of each method are there for everyone to see.   There is no logistical or financial reason why Steve could not follow Kurts approach from the last couple of months.

What, apart from
the lack of an RV and a 365x24 support team?

(sorry about that - but the font-size seems proportionate to the number of posters ignoring this simple fact :P
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Von Broad on December 16, 2015, 06:29:05 pm
I think as time goes on, watching both riders either side of the pond, with their differing approaches and fortunes, I find myself having less thoughts and concerns about both Abraham and Searvogel and have become much more curious about Godwin. Terrible winters, slower cycling technology, less accurate weather forecasting and still he managed to do all those miles in 1939. His achievement seems all the more unfathomably incredible to me after watching the current attempts - almost to the point where one could easily question if he even did them at all. Build like an Ox must surely be a euphemism to describe Tommy Godwin.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: LittleWheelsandBig on December 16, 2015, 06:35:31 pm
Tommy could cruise up and down the A1, if he wanted, and lorries travelled at a suitable drafting pace back then. Quite apart from having dedicated support for his highest mileage months.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Exit Stage Left on December 16, 2015, 06:49:56 pm
Tommy could cruise up and down the A1, if he wanted, and lorries travelled at a suitable drafting pace back then. Quite apart from having dedicated support for his highest mileage months.

It's possible to see what the A1 looked like in August 1939, this film's overcranked, there are longer versions available, at the correct speed.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_D0tR9mAV8A
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: jochta on December 16, 2015, 06:58:12 pm
The weather so far this autumn/winter has been relatively benign. Yes it has been windy some days (in a windy year overall) but not atypical for a British autumn/winter at all. Rainfall over the area covered by Steve has been well within average amounts, and quite dry in the east. Temperatures have been several degrees above average, in fact this is the most remarkable statistic, today it reached 15C, that's way above the seasonal norm. I've only recorded 3 air frosts at my weather station in south Oxfordshire, all of them in late November. The night time minima have been remarkable too, 12.7C last night, that's insane for mid-December. The lowest daily maximum temperature so far has been 5.9C.

Couldn't really ask for much more that that, so I don't think weather can be blamed, it couldn't really have been much better!!
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: toontra on December 16, 2015, 07:01:56 pm
It's possible to see what the A1 looked like in August 1939, this film's overcranked, there are longer versions available, at the correct speed.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_D0tR9mAV8A

Wonderful.  I especially liked the guy with the handcart stopping at the red lights on Oxford Street!
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: jochta on December 16, 2015, 07:22:28 pm
Tommy could cruise up and down the A1, if he wanted, and lorries travelled at a suitable drafting pace back then. Quite apart from having dedicated support for his highest mileage months.

It's possible to see what the A1 looked like in August 1939, this film's overcranked, there are longer versions available, at the correct speed.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_D0tR9mAV8A

I love the way the cameraman's car is just randomly parked in most scenes with vehicles swerving around it. Some pretty bad driving in a few of those scenes too.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: TheRedEyeJedi on December 16, 2015, 07:22:41 pm
I am astonished and in awe of the miles Steve has done with his current approach over the space of the last year, but also convinced Kurt has the best approach - the results of each method are there for everyone to see.   There is no logistical or financial reason why Steve could not follow Kurts approach from the last couple of months.

What, apart from
the lack of an RV and a 365x24 support team?

(sorry about that - but the font-size seems proportionate to the number of posters ignoring this simple fact :P

Why exactly do you need an RV or a 365 support team to do this?...
https://www.strava.com/activities/450897955


The way you talk you would think Kurt has got Dave Brailsford dong his laundry and Shane Sutton feeding him flapjacks.   One vehicle + one driver are not exactly impossible things to find ....and they would not do a jot of good if Steve was still on his Sojourn, with a laptop onboard doing 200 mile loops into headwinds and up hills.    A massive change of approach would still be required and it seems to me it is the lack of intent to change that is the problem rather than any logistics.   

You just need a good base near the loop of your choosing, preferably sheltered from the wind , with plenty of local riders to help out - then assistance at home before and after the ride...those things are readily available if the offers that have been made are to be believed.   Im sure many would have taken a weeks holiday in exchange to play a part in the record being broken?

How much would it really cost to hire a support vehicle and employ various drivers for the year - we are told there is enough funding for an overseas base if needed/wanted ... It would seem the money is there.   I am pretty sure if more money had of been asked for it would have been given?   Even if that approach was taken for a quarter of the year it could have had a huge impact.

 
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Polar Bear on December 16, 2015, 07:28:05 pm
TheRedEyeJedi,

Not having intimate knowledge of Steve's finances, I don't think we can comment fairly either way.   Would you like to contribute to pay for a full time driver and an RV to support Steve on his way?

I don't see why you need to be so aggressive in your assertions. 

Steve and Kurt have different approaches, neither is right nor wrong, just different.   
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Polar Bear on December 16, 2015, 07:33:00 pm
It pains me to say this but I predict that there is going to be some obscene gloating and disrespectful willy waving from some quarters when Kurt crosses the line.   Not the done thing chaps.   This is not the Ryder Cup y'know. 

Kurt of course will remain a gentleman and will have earned the right to celebrate his achievement when it comes.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: TheRedEyeJedi on December 16, 2015, 07:38:19 pm
TheRedEyeJedi,

Not having intimate knowledge of Steve's finances, I don't think we can comment fairly either way.   Would you like to contribute to pay for a full time driver and an RV to support Steve on his way?

I don't see why you need to be so aggressive in your assertions. 

Steve and Kurt have different approaches, neither is right nor wrong, just different.   

Im not sure why you think I was being aggressive - I wasnt the one enlarging my text!!! ;D  Nothing I have said was supposed to sound aggressive so apologies if it did.

I find Steves approach more captivating than Kurts.  However, I think we can clearly see that if you want to break the record then Kurts approach is exactly right.  He is going to beat the record with comfort as long as something terrible doesnt happen....Im not quite sure how much more "right" an attempt could be?  There are quite clearly rights and wrongs involved in a record attempt and Kurt has learnt and adapted as he has gone on.  If the record could be broken easily with any old approach then I dont think it would have stood for this long.   

Steves approach so far has not worked for any length of time - and when he has tried harder he has become ill.   I find this assumption that Kurt has had advantages or logistical advances that are beyond Steve to be a little strange.   Steve has this record in him - we can all see this - he is just making it too hard for himself in my opinion.  I respect that, but the record is set in stone and respect doesnt play a part in breaking it.  Godwin didnt have it as hard as Steve is making it for himself.

Kurt has one vehicle and one assistant - and at the moment he isnt really using them much.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: mattc on December 16, 2015, 07:55:33 pm

Kurt has one vehicle and one assistant - and at the moment he isnt really using them much.
"much" ? Are we following the same Kurt?    :-\

You admit you have no idea the cost of an RV+driver; and no idea of Steve's budget. I'd say that without these 2 basic facts you are firmly in the Kibitzer camp.(don't worry- it is a camp with many residents,  many sharing your views and knowldege of riding 70,000 miles a year!)
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: LittleWheelsandBig on December 16, 2015, 08:02:15 pm
Budget isn't a massive problem for Steve. He doesn't have to cut corners on that account. FB has said as much previously.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: TheRedEyeJedi on December 16, 2015, 08:07:55 pm

Kurt has one vehicle and one assistant - and at the moment he isnt really using them much.
"much" ? Are we following the same Kurt?    :-\

You admit you have no idea the cost of an RV+driver; and no idea of Steve's budget. I'd say that without these 2 basic facts you are firmly in the Kibitzer camp.(don't worry- it is a camp with many residents,  many sharing your views and knowldege of riding 70,000 miles a year!)

My knowledge of riding that distance is the same as yours ...we look to the approach Godwin and Kurt as the only two people who have done it.  However, if we only allow people who have covered these distances to give a point of view on here then these threads will be pretty short!

I have no idea why you are fixated on the idea of the RV....Kurt is doing more miles now that he ISNT using motor transfers.   The RV is currently a taxi to take him to and from the loop start line and to keep food and kit in along the side of his loops.. Im sure Steve could follow that approach if he wanted.

I can completely see the psychological benefit Alicia gives Kurt (but I dont think Steve is lacking mental fortitude or determination), plus her management of the technology and social media minimizes faff ... These were things that were willingly provided for Steve by hosts and home helps at the start...I have no idea if he has offers to help him with those things if he went toward doing a local loop ride like Kurt but my guess is there would be no shortage of offers?   

My opinions on his budget are only what is being disclosed on here by people in the know...ie that there is enough money for carbon bikes, a base abroad and additional help and logistics.   From  my knowledge of crowd funding and the interest generated in the attempt I am pretty sure if Steve said he needed to raise a certain mount to pay for key logistics he would have raised that money.

Im not sure why we need a special name for people that have a different viewpoint from yours?   The debate and musings over the best way to beat this record should be one of the fun things about it...I dont understand the boo hooing of people who think things could be done differently?
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: jamesld8 on December 16, 2015, 08:22:02 pm
Kurt has learned as he has gone along, fixed / upgraded his equipment, fine-tuned his approach and adapted to changes in circumstances.
whereas...

As I said a few pages back, Steve's options are much more limited that Kurt's because his average speed is about 4mph slower. That's 48 miles over a 12 hour day.

and IIRC many months ago LWAB also pointed out that Steve needed lift his average speed to get the record; just saw on FB that Kurt did shade over 400km at 20 mph ---that`s way above what Steve is managing currently, or at any point during record attempt.

There appears to have been no strategy change since LWAB`s observation months ago despite very many offers / ideas to assist.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: toontra on December 16, 2015, 08:23:17 pm
If Steve's current plan was working there wouldn't be any questioning.  It appears not to be working, so it would be pretty amazing if there weren't any questions being asked or suggestions put forward, particularly as his effort is being partly crowd-funded by folks here.  No need for any unpleasantness from either side.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Arry-R on December 16, 2015, 08:43:44 pm
If Steve's current plan was working there wouldn't be any questioning.  It appears not to be working, so it would be pretty amazing if there weren't any questions being asked or suggestions put forward, particularly as his effort is being partly crowd-funded by folks here.  No need for any unpleasantness from either side.






PLUS ONE
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Arry-R on December 16, 2015, 08:45:43 pm
TheRedEyeJedi,

Not having intimate knowledge of Steve's finances, I don't think we can comment fairly either way.   Would you like to contribute to pay for a full time driver and an RV to support Steve on his way?

I don't see why you need to be so aggressive in your assertions. 

Steve and Kurt have different approaches, neither is right nor wrong, just different.   

Steves approach so far has not worked for any length of time - and when he has tried harder he has become ill.   I find this assumption that Kurt has had advantages or logistical advances that are beyond Steve to be a little strange.   Steve has this record in him - we can all see this - he is just making it too hard for himself in my opinion.  I respect that, but the record is set in stone and respect doesnt play a part in breaking it.  Godwin didnt have it as hard as Steve is making it for himself.

Kurt has one vehicle and one assistant - and at the moment he isnt really using them much.




PLUS ONE
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Karla on December 16, 2015, 08:50:50 pm
How much would it really cost to hire a support vehicle and employ various drivers for the year - we are told there is enough funding for an overseas base if needed/wanted ... It would seem the money is there.   I am pretty sure if more money had of been asked for it would have been given?   Even if that approach was taken for a quarter of the year it could have had a huge impact.

I donated some money at the start and would have donated some more later in the year when I got a new job, but by then it was a few months into the year, my hosting offer to Steve had gone unacknowledged and we weren't getting any updates.  I wanted to support a year record attempt, not an open-ended mega tour, so I decided not to donate any more.  I'd love to see Steve take the record and I'd happily support him in any way I could if he said he needed it and success looked realistic, either with a continuation of this attempt or with a new attempt. 

One thing to remember about Kurt vs Steve at the present time is that Kurt openly admits that his body is falling apart, but he's weeks from the end of the record so he's able to lift it for the final sprint.  Steve's body has had just as much wear and tear but he still has another 6+ months to go, which can't be a nice position to be in.  I don't know what Steve's financial status is wrt his job, donations in the pot, taking a break and starting a new attempt after several months' rest, but from a performance point of view that may be his best option.  I'd happily start donating again for that, but would hope that he'd find a team who would let us know what was going on, and would get some bikes that weren't 30lb lumps of Godwin-era steel!
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Martin on December 16, 2015, 09:20:04 pm
Agree ppb, this was supposed to be a One year time trial. 5 months almost was wasted because of the moped but the challenge continued. In that respect Kurt is at a disadvantage his ex wife wants him back in the office on 11th January I imagine
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Exit Stage Left on December 16, 2015, 09:45:03 pm
Tommy could cruise up and down the A1, if he wanted, and lorries travelled at a suitable drafting pace back then. Quite apart from having dedicated support for his highest mileage months.

It's possible to see what the A1 looked like in August 1939, this film's overcranked, there are longer versions available, at the correct speed.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_D0tR9mAV8A

I love the way the cameraman's car is just randomly parked in most scenes with vehicles swerving around it. Some pretty bad driving in a few of those scenes too.

Godwins' peak mileage was done on roads like that, as a series of 50 mile team time trials, for 16 hours a day throughout the summer.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Arry-R on December 16, 2015, 10:32:51 pm
Tommy could cruise up and down the A1, if he wanted, and lorries travelled at a suitable drafting pace back then. Quite apart from having dedicated support for his highest mileage months.

It's possible to see what the A1 looked like in August 1939, this film's overcranked, there are longer versions available, at the correct speed.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_D0tR9mAV8A







Many thanks for bringing that film to our attention.  I know lorries were slow and restricted to 20mph in 1939 so tommy could easily have tucked in with ease. Think it was in the 50,s when that went up to 30 mph and we really thought we was moving. Later in the 60s it went up to 40 mph so Tommy wouldn't have kept up then +
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: contango on December 17, 2015, 04:17:13 am
I'm beginning to think that the record needs to be split a bit like the hour record did a few years ago....
One based on a pure Godwin effort like Steve is doing and a Kurt record which is assisted, car transfers etc. Comparing Steve and Kurt is comparing apples and pears, it's not like for like.

The trouble with doing that is that you'd end up with so many different variations of the record that any entrant could be all but guaranteed to become a record holder by registering a slight variation on the theme. What happens if someone decides to ride 28,000 laps of a 3-mile circuit in a year, would that be a different record?

How closely do you think the two riders should match in their efforts? In the US you can ride for 100 miles without stopping at all; in the UK that sort of thing isn't going to happen. In the US you get far greater temperature variations than in the UK. Ultimately both men have taken on a huge challenge and achieved something that frankly boggles my mind. Even if there were only one record (and from what people say it sounds like there are multiple records based on age), there's no shame for either man if they come second.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Auntie Helen on December 17, 2015, 06:53:52 am
Wrt cost, I think it's in the Süddeutsche Zeitung article that Kurt says this record is costing him about a dollar a mile.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Citizenfish on December 17, 2015, 07:35:57 am
Tommy could cruise up and down the A1, if he wanted, and lorries travelled at a suitable drafting pace back then. Quite apart from having dedicated support for his highest mileage months.

It's possible to see what the A1 looked like in August 1939, this film's overcranked, there are longer versions available, at the correct speed.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_D0tR9mAV8A

I love the way the cameraman's car is just randomly parked in most scenes with vehicles swerving around it. Some pretty bad driving in a few of those scenes too.

Godwins' peak mileage was done on roads like that, as a series of 50 mile team time trials, for 16 hours a day throughout the summer.

I wish people would stop quoting this "unfact". Godwin did not ride with a team. Teams as we know them did not exist in the UK in the 1930-40's as all racing was based around individual time trials and tracks. Godwin ride mainly solo, paced by Charlie Davey who egged him on from a car. Bennett had Rene Menzies and a motorbike. He rode his huge days in reaction to Bennett at the beck of Davey and Raleigh.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: TheRedEyeJedi on December 17, 2015, 08:06:41 am
I'm beginning to think that the record needs to be split a bit like the hour record did a few years ago....
One based on a pure Godwin effort like Steve is doing and a Kurt record which is assisted, car transfers etc. Comparing Steve and Kurt is comparing apples and pears, it's not like for like.

The trouble with doing that is that you'd end up with so many different variations of the record that any entrant could be all but guaranteed to become a record holder by registering a slight variation on the theme. What happens if someone decides to ride 28,000 laps of a 3-mile circuit in a year, would that be a different record?

How closely do you think the two riders should match in their efforts? In the US you can ride for 100 miles without stopping at all; in the UK that sort of thing isn't going to happen. In the US you get far greater temperature variations than in the UK. Ultimately both men have taken on a huge challenge and achieved something that frankly boggles my mind. Even if there were only one record (and from what people say it sounds like there are multiple records based on age), there's no shame for either man if they come second.

Not if you ride a 100 mile + route ....but if you pick a short loop with no junctions or traffic lights it is very possible to ride for 100 miles in England without stopping.   I am not sure why Kurts current strategy is being ignored so much.   He is not making use of a massive country or his RV ...he is riding fast, short loops around a base with a group of familiar and fast riders shielding him.   This is his best period of the whole challenge and he seems to be holding up both mentally and physically better than when he was out by himself with the RV and Alicia.

Steve cant do that for a year for his own sanity...but its got to be worth a go to pull him through this patch.   I seem to remember Kurt being at his wits end before he got into this routine of fast, supported miles
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Von Broad on December 17, 2015, 08:14:02 am
Tommy could cruise up and down the A1, if he wanted, and lorries travelled at a suitable drafting pace back then.

Are there reports of him drafting lorries up and down the A1 for any length of time? I've not read the book, but if that is the case, then his achievement is all the more astounding to me, because emissions and air quality behind a wagon in 1939 must have been horrible.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Citizenfish on December 17, 2015, 09:18:09 am
Tommy could cruise up and down the A1, if he wanted, and lorries travelled at a suitable drafting pace back then.

Are there reports of him drafting lorries up and down the A1 for any length of time? I've not read the book, but if that is the case, then his achievement is all the more astounding to me, because emissions and air quality behind a wagon in 1939 must have been horrible.

The only mention of it is a fleeting piece in the cycling press where he rode roads "often frequented by lorries". It's not clear if he did this for drafting purposes or if it happened by coincidence.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Ningishzidda on December 17, 2015, 11:29:16 am
A 'big' truck in 1939 was a Leyland Buffalo.

Even bigger was a Scammell Pioneer.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Legs on December 17, 2015, 11:38:10 am
Imagine 300 miles at 40mph...
https://vimeo.com/50872582 (https://vimeo.com/50872582)
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: bodach on December 17, 2015, 11:57:31 am
This wee clip reminds me of the days when I could do the 27 mls from office to home in 39 mins way back yonder.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Legs on December 17, 2015, 12:29:35 pm
[slightly OT]Srsly? On a bike?[/slightly OT]
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Arry-R on December 17, 2015, 12:37:24 pm
Thanks for putting that clip on.  Went to the cinema twice to watch  (the cutters ) breaking away!  It is the way to do it!
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: mrcharly-YHT on December 17, 2015, 01:23:08 pm
This wee clip reminds me of the days when I could do the 27 mls from office to home in 39 mins way back yonder.
If you were drafting, I can believe it.

I've managed to get tucked in behind a tractor on the A64 a few times. The hardest bit has been avoiding running into the tractor on the downhills, even a very very slight downhill would be enough to take my speed up above 25mph. I'm as unathletic as they come and in those conditions I could maintain 25mph average and scarcely break a sweat.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: DaveE128 on December 17, 2015, 01:23:48 pm
Seems a bit off to me, calling those that offer opinions on the best approach silly names.

It's a sporting endeavour. People have opinions on sport. (Consider football!) This is a thread to discuss "thoughts on the record attempt". What's the problem?

These people aren't phoning up/emailing Steve and telling him he's doing it all wrong are they? Otherwise it's just a public discussion on something we're obviously all interested in.

 ::-)
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: hatler on December 17, 2015, 01:27:50 pm
This wee clip reminds me of the days when I could do the 27 mls from office to home in 39 mins way back yonder.
If you were drafting, I can believe it.

I've managed to get tucked in behind a tractor on the A64 a few times. The hardest bit has been avoiding running into the tractor on the downhills, even a very very slight downhill would be enough to take my speed up above 25mph. I'm as unathletic as they come and in those conditions I could maintain 25mph average and scarcely break a sweat.
Yup. At 40mph, two feet off the back of a double decker bus on a flat road I find myself spending more time on the brakes than the pedals.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Kim on December 17, 2015, 01:32:33 pm
I've managed to get tucked in behind a tractor on the A64 a few times. The hardest bit has been avoiding running into the tractor on the downhills, even a very very slight downhill would be enough to take my speed up above 25mph. I'm as unathletic as they come and in those conditions I could maintain 25mph average and scarcely break a sweat.

I can report a similar experience from drafting Teethgrinder on my recumbent.   :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: DaveE128 on December 17, 2015, 01:47:43 pm
I think a few thread contributors might be interested to look at Steve's live tracker for today...

http://audaxclubhackney.co.uk/tg.html
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: TheRedEyeJedi on December 17, 2015, 02:00:39 pm
I think a few thread contributors might be interested to look at Steve's live tracker for today...

http://audaxclubhackney.co.uk/tg.html

Nice move - Go Steve!

What is the length and profile of MK bowl like?   Is it open 24/7?

Does Steve have to ride the Raleigh through the year in return for the sponsorship.... I presume he owns other bikes which may be more suited to riding loops of a closed circuit?
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Kim on December 17, 2015, 02:09:14 pm
What is the length and profile of MK bowl like?   Is it open 24/7?

It's 1km long with a 10 metre rise, IIRC.  So substantially hillier than what he usually rides.

I think he has to make special arrangements for access.  It's not something you can just turn up to and ride (or turn up to and shout encouragement).
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: TheRedEyeJedi on December 17, 2015, 02:14:41 pm
What is the length and profile of MK bowl like?   Is it open 24/7?

It's 1km long with a 10 metre rise, IIRC.  So substantially hillier than what he usually rides.

I think he has to make special arrangements for access.  It's not something you can just turn up to and ride (or turn up to and shout encouragement).

That's actually quite a bit shorter and hillier than I was expecting  - that's 3300m of climbing over the course of a Godwin?   I guess its quite a gradual gradient but that still seems far from ideal?
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: SoreTween on December 17, 2015, 02:16:13 pm
Example: https://www.strava.com/activities/287914171
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Vince on December 17, 2015, 02:41:30 pm
Example: https://www.strava.com/activities/287914171
I guess the tide was going out on that one.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: zigzag on December 17, 2015, 02:47:16 pm
Steve needs to hire this (http://www.amusingplanet.com/2014/07/nardo-ring-porsches-high-speed-test.html) for a year :)
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: andyoxon on December 17, 2015, 05:05:20 pm
Anyone know what the current annual elevation/climbing record is?  Steve's currently on ~452000m.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: hillbilly on December 17, 2015, 05:13:21 pm
There isn't an official record, AFAIK.
Historically, elevation gain has been more difficult to measure (and validate) than distance.

452km is  a lot, but isn't that much compared to the BSD's.  Brian Toone is often tickling the top of the Strava elevation leaderboard.  His year to date is close to 1000km.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: mattc on December 17, 2015, 05:51:23 pm
The benefit of Alicia+RV seems obvious and enormous. Perhaps one way to appreciate this - for those that have followed Kurt's diary entries,  videos etc -  is to think about how his year would pan out without either Alicia, the RV,  or both.  ( I was going to list the differences ... but I don't know where to start!)

Or read today's post from Alicia:

...
We've worked so hard all year for this. I think it's hard to comprehend what Kurt does all day and how he does it. I don't believe most understanding all the work and juggling I do everyday to make this happen, but that's ok. It works and we are getting it done! ~ Alicia

[my bold]
Downplaying her contribution is doing her a great dis-service.

And of course I should congratulate them BOTH on their efforts :)
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: andyoxon on December 17, 2015, 06:29:06 pm
Steve needs to hire this (http://www.amusingplanet.com/2014/07/nardo-ring-porsches-high-speed-test.html) for a year :)

Millbrook oval is only just over an hour's ride from Steve  :demon:

Unfortunately  "Other prohibited items include ... pedal bikes and animals."   ;)
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Mr Larrington on December 17, 2015, 06:39:58 pm
Steve needs to hire this (http://www.amusingplanet.com/2014/07/nardo-ring-porsches-high-speed-test.html) for a year :)

Millbrook oval is only just over an hour's ride from Steve  :demon:

Unfortunately  "Other prohibited items include ... pedal bikes and animals."   ;)

The HPV hour record has been set there in the past, albeit in 1990.  Getting it for more than a couple of weekend hours?  Fuhgeddaboutit.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Ningishzidda on December 18, 2015, 06:48:28 am
Don't blink. Abrams is fast.
(http://i1085.photobucket.com/albums/j433/Lighthorse2/dragster_zpsmlq5gjea.png) (http://s1085.photobucket.com/user/Lighthorse2/media/dragster_zpsmlq5gjea.png.html)
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Ningishzidda on December 18, 2015, 06:50:04 am
Steve needs to hire this (http://www.amusingplanet.com/2014/07/nardo-ring-porsches-high-speed-test.html) for a year :)

Millbrook oval is only just over an hour's ride from Steve  :demon:

Millbrook has a circle. Rockingham has an oval.
Millbrook is about twenty five minutes on a bike from Steve's.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: hillbilly on December 18, 2015, 09:22:20 am
Steve returns to the Bowl for a second day.  A day where the trees outside my office are still, the sky is steely but with no threat of rain, and the temperature is in double figures.  And the forecast for the weekend would appear to lend itself well to venturing far and wide.

From the outside, this feels like a challenge that is on a trolley being shunted towards intensive care.  It's almost as if Steve has taken a dose from a bottle of anti-bionics rather than anti-biotics.  It's selfish to say it, but I'm not finding it comfortable viewing at the moment. 

I've never believed in Christmas miracles, but by golly I hope Santa delivers Steve some whatever it is he needs to get back up to full strength over the festive period.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Arry-R on December 18, 2015, 09:47:20 am
Very well worded Billy
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: notlobgp14 on December 18, 2015, 11:36:24 am

I've never believed in Christmas miracles, but by golly I hope Santa delivers Steve some whatever it is he needs to get back up to full strength over the festive period.

Well said and +1 for the above wish.

There must be something going on which we are not aware of; why the secrecy?  If Steve is following any of this chatter, not sure when he finds time to, he could make it all a bit more positive by letting supporters know what he's thinking, doing and planning.  When I say he I mean one of the Team, if there still is a Team?
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Ian H on December 18, 2015, 11:45:48 am
There's been a good response to this.
youtube link (https://youtu.be/85fQYevbt5c)
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: drgannet on December 18, 2015, 11:54:35 am
There's been a good response to this.
youtube link (https://youtu.be/85fQYevbt5c)

What does that mean? All we see is that 18 days later nothing has changed, apart from Steve is managing fewer miles. My presumption from what little information is available is that he is still pretty unwell (and all I can do is wish him well and pray he recovers quickly).
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: rafletcher on December 18, 2015, 12:49:12 pm
There's been a good response to this.
youtube link (https://youtu.be/85fQYevbt5c)

Posted by LWAB last week...

"I've made offers via a current team member...sound of crickets followed"
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: toontra on December 18, 2015, 12:58:07 pm
There must be something going on which we are not aware of; why the secrecy?  If Steve is following any of this chatter, not sure when he finds time to, he could make it all a bit more positive by letting supporters know what he's thinking, doing and planning.  When I say he I mean one of the Team, if there still is a Team?

I'm resigned to the fact that we are never going to know what's going on.  There has been a consistent pattern - things leak out days after the event but almost in spite of the team rather than because of them.  I have absolutely no idea why there has been this wall of secrecy for the entire 12 months but it has done Steve's challenge no favours IMO, and certainly not given him any advantage over his competitors (which I can only assume has been the reason for it).
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Exit Stage Left on December 18, 2015, 01:38:12 pm
It strikes me that the One Year Time Trial is about redemption. Middle-aged men submitting to an ordeal to exorcise our demons. Kurt's got his relationship history and his pre-cycling chubbiness and the new challenger has alluded to struggling with depression.
I've tended to see Steve's ride as a celebration of the everyday, an extension of everyone's work routine, carried to its ultimate extent. A hero of the everyday. I touched on some of that when I talked to Steve at PBP. The challenge now is to work out a way of upping Steve's production to reach any new target.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gIMA9Zux9gE
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Kim on December 18, 2015, 01:39:20 pm
It strikes me that it's about trying to ride as far as possible on a bike.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: andyoxon on December 18, 2015, 01:46:37 pm
The bowl is used as a recovery 'refuge' it seems, as earlier in the year; GWS Steve.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Exit Stage Left on December 18, 2015, 01:48:47 pm
It strikes me that it's about trying to ride as far as possible on a bike.

If that was the case no-one would be projecting values such as purity onto the event. The quality of the suffering seems to occupy a lot of the posts.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Kim on December 18, 2015, 01:51:10 pm
It strikes me that it's about trying to ride as far as possible on a bike.

If that was the case no-one would be projecting values such as purity onto the event. The quality of the suffering seems to occupy a lot of the posts.

You said it.

We're not trying to ride as far as possible on a bike, just wanking about on the internet.


ETA: Change of plan.  Going for a bike ride.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Wowbagger on December 18, 2015, 01:51:58 pm
It strikes me that it's about trying to ride as far as possible on a bike.

If that was the case no-one would be projecting values such as purity onto the event. The quality of the suffering seems to occupy a lot of the posts.

Is that the definition of the recursive? ESL posting about the quality of suffering?
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Exit Stage Left on December 18, 2015, 01:59:15 pm
Another interesting aspect of the final phase of Kurt's ride is the way that those who like to associate themselves with success have aligned themselves with him. I think of those who were denouncing him as 'UMCA's Golden Boy' earlier in the year, and were calling for his disqualification. Now they're toasting him with fine malt whisky.
I can see why Kurt and Alicia like to drop in for a laugh.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: clarion on December 18, 2015, 02:02:19 pm
And Steve has now asked for vehicular assistance during the expected strong winds.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Wowbagger on December 18, 2015, 02:05:30 pm
I'd like to raise a seasonal glass to your health and well-being, ESL. I shall do so once the sun is over the yard-arm.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Sergeant Pluck on December 18, 2015, 03:45:44 pm
Another interesting aspect of the final phase of Kurt's ride is the way that those who like to associate themselves with success have aligned themselves with him. I think of those who were denouncing him as 'UMCA's Golden Boy' earlier in the year, and were calling for his disqualification. Now they're toasting him with fine malt whisky.

I don't think it is about aligning with the successful - the upward trend of Kurt's level of social media support was established long before it was clear if he would succeed.

I think it is more to do with how updates from Kurt, even when delivered via Alicia, have been very personal and with a level of detail that involves the reader. That contrasts with the delivery of news from Steve, which from the outset gave me the impression of being heavily managed. Virtually none of it, aside from the odd interview, has a personal feel. 

I haven't posted much here of late but I do keep an eye on these threads and Facebook etc. Like many others, I have made a small monthly contribution to Steve's record attempt from the beginning. I think in the early stages there was a communication to the contributors, but since then there has been nothing. That doesn't bother me much, of course, but it is a minor symptom that indicates a larger problem. No meaningful updates at all, even to those who would be easily reachable via an email list.

At no stage has any attention been given to well-founded advice. Diet, for instance. Those bikes. The average speeds.

I find myself wondering sometimes if my contribution, when combined with those of others, is adding to pressure on Steve to continue things as they are.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Exit Stage Left on December 18, 2015, 03:48:38 pm

We're not trying to ride as far as possible on a bike, just wanking about on the internet.


ETA: Change of plan.  Going for a bike ride.

What you do is up to you. The whole structure of the One Year Time Trial interests me. That includes how it's mediated to its audience, and the interaction with those who feel they have a stake in Steve and Kurt.

The media interest ramps up as the attempt seems achievable, Kurt's getting in a lot of magazines, and his personal history forms part of those stories. Steve is going to have to spend more to stand a chance of matching Kurt, and engaging with the media will form part of that, if only to validate those who have already contributed.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Ben T on December 18, 2015, 04:23:52 pm
It strikes me that the One Year Time Trial is about redemption. Middle-aged men submitting to an ordeal to exorcise our demons. Kurt's got his relationship history and his pre-cycling chubbiness and the new challenger has alluded to struggling with depression.


At least they haven't got a war to skive.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Fidgetbuzz on December 18, 2015, 05:08:12 pm
I am afraid that the perception of a team working to get Steve to the record is not consistent with my experience. Several team members worked very hard for Steve -- most obviously those providing local support in and around MK .. but these were day to day logistics -- not long term planning on how best to tackle the task.

Right from the start - it was clearly stated that this was Steve's ride, he knew what he was doing and there was no point in making suggestions. Initially I saw no reason to doubt Steve's own assessment of his capabilities -- just look at his background --so here was a guy who was happy with his own company setting out to ride for a year.

However it is now becoming more and more apparent that this record, even with everything going well is at the limit of Steve's capabilities IF he rides as he is doing at the moment.

BUT tackled differently - with serious planning for the forward months -- and maybe he could do it -- however this would suggest a stop  now -- very careful discussion with the donors about the cash position -working out an ideal strategy and  finding a dedicated support  team with some changes from the current lot .. with maybe a restart on 1st Jan 2017.

Just my input -- all of which maybe complete b*ll*cks
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: LittleWheelsandBig on December 18, 2015, 05:10:36 pm
Pretty close to my opinions.

Once Steve's deficit gets big enough that he needs to exceed 220 daily miles for the rest of the attempt, the attempt is toast. He's damn close to that now.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: LMT on December 18, 2015, 05:22:15 pm
Another interesting aspect of the final phase of Kurt's ride is the way that those who like to associate themselves with success have aligned themselves with him. I think of those who were denouncing him as 'UMCA's Golden Boy' earlier in the year, and were calling for his disqualification. Now they're toasting him with fine malt whisky.
I can see why Kurt and Alicia like to drop in for a laugh.

Dunno about that, however the other bit of your post I agree with. The partisan posts/thread set up having a pop at Kurt when he first set out I deemed as an embarrassment on behalf of Steve and his team, YACF and the UK long distance cycling fraternity.

edit:^ and anyone that has or had an interest in the HAMR.

Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Wowbagger on December 18, 2015, 05:48:40 pm
ESL, I'm raising a glass of "Suffolk Springer" in your general direction at the moment. Only a Southern Softie beer from Bury St. Edmunds, I'm afraid, but it is perfectly acceptable. Not had it before.

@LMT: at the start of the ride all one had to judge Kurt on was what looked very like a "Let's see what the other guy does and then go one better, 10 days behind". With 11 months of experience, and with Steve having had all the bad luck that he has, that is clearly not the case now, if it ever was, and has not been since April. Is it allowed to change one's opinion in the light of experience?
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Arry-R on December 18, 2015, 06:32:09 pm


Once Steve's deficit gets big enough that he needs to exceed 220 daily miles for the rest of the attempt, the attempt is toast. He's damn close to that now.
[/quote]





PLUS ONE.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Polar Bear on December 18, 2015, 06:35:31 pm
I think that it is fair to say that the knockers on both sides have NOT been part of either Kurt's or Steve's respective teams but simply kibitzers, or whatever the terminology is in cycling!

And, I wish those bloody persistent knockers of Steve's gargantuan efforts would bugger off and crawl under a stone too.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: andyoxon on December 18, 2015, 06:40:40 pm
Pretty close to my opinions.

Once Steve's deficit gets big enough that he needs to exceed 220 daily miles for the rest of the attempt, the attempt is toast. He's damn close to that now.

Re HAM'R, required mpd looks like  increasing to deal with Kurt's new total in early Jan...  I wonder what the projections for this mpd now would be?
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Pale Rider on December 18, 2015, 06:48:53 pm
Pretty close to my opinions.

Once Steve's deficit gets big enough that he needs to exceed 220 daily miles for the rest of the attempt, the attempt is toast. He's damn close to that now.

Re HAM'R, required mpd looks like  increasing to deal with Kurt's new total in early Jan...  I wonder what the projections for this mpd now would be?

If Kurt rounds up the record to 76,000, the new starter miles per day target would be 208.2.

Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: toontra on December 18, 2015, 06:53:12 pm
If Kurt rounds up the record to 76,000, the new starter miles per day target would be 208.2.

At the current rate it will be above 209.  In fact 210 isn't out of the question.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Pale Rider on December 18, 2015, 06:56:31 pm
If Kurt rounds up the record to 76,000, the new starter miles per day target would be 208.2.

At the current rate it will be above 209

Er, at the current rate the new target will be the current rate - 208.5.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: toontra on December 18, 2015, 06:59:17 pm
If Kurt rounds up the record to 76,000, the new starter miles per day target would be 208.2.

At the current rate it will be above 209

Er, at the current rate the new target will be the current rate - 208.5.

By the current rate i meant the rate over the last few weeks, which I think is a better indicator than the whole-year average (as I think you probably knew  :P).
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Pale Rider on December 18, 2015, 07:07:39 pm
If Kurt rounds up the record to 76,000, the new starter miles per day target would be 208.2.

At the current rate it will be above 209

Er, at the current rate the new target will be the current rate - 208.5.

By the current rate i meant the rate over the last few weeks, which I think is a better indicator than the whole-year average (as I think you probably knew  :P).

Seems to me if you are trying to predict a 52 week average, a better guide would be what's happened in the preceding 49 weeks, rather than just the preceding few.

Having said that, there is no doubt Kurt has put on a bit of a spurt recently and I would back him to be able to maintain it.

Whatever, I suspect we are agreed the arithmetic is a big part of the endless fascination of the attempt.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: SoreTween on December 18, 2015, 07:09:38 pm
At the current rate it will be above 209.  In fact 210 isn't out of the question.

Steve's target to beat Tommy is already 211.4.  To beat Kurt at an estimated 76,000 it is 215.7.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Sergeant Pluck on December 18, 2015, 07:31:30 pm
In my view, due to the weather, terrain, and choice of approach Steve has suffered immensely - arguably more than Kurt. The mental and physical strength that he has demonstrated is without equal in my view. I doubt if anyone in the UK would be able to equal this achievement, in the way that Steve has chosen to do it. In addition I have no doubt that many members of his team have worked extremely hard.

Heavy bike, heavy kit, crap food. Only the best of days (weather, traffic, road conditions) permit miles approaching what is needed. That’s been the case for months. Those who urge pressing onwards without change, what of his well-being?



Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Mileater on December 18, 2015, 08:43:18 pm
Sadly, it is not looking good for Steve. Adding in yesterday's 100.3 miles to jo's most recent total, Steve's average mileage as of yesterday, day 132, is 194.7 mpd. Assuming Kurt beats Godwin by 1000 miles, this means Steve would have to deliver 216.2 mpd for the next 233 days to beat Kurt. Even the *lesser* goal of beating Godwin by one mile on British soil is looking increasingly unlikely. That would require 211.9 mpd.

Where is his crew chief? Who is running this thing? Steve appears to have very little support. Maybe he does not want it. Or if he does, but there's no one to actually organize and lead volunteers. Regardless, it's a mistake. This can't be done audax-style. The crew chief is supposed to recruit, organize and lead support crew. I don't see any of this happening here. Meanwhile, lots of people appear to want to help. Sad.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Exit Stage Left on December 18, 2015, 08:50:24 pm
ESL, I'm raising a glass of "Suffolk Springer" in your general direction at the moment. Only a Southern Softie beer from Bury St. Edmunds, I'm afraid, but it is perfectly acceptable. Not had it before.

@LMT: at the start of the ride all one had to judge Kurt on was what looked very like a "Let's see what the other guy does and then go one better, 10 days behind". With 11 months of experience, and with Steve having had all the bad luck that he has, that is clearly not the case now, if it ever was, and has not been since April. Is it allowed to change one's opinion in the light of experience?

Wowbagger, I went to the University of Kent, and lived in Herne Bay on the other side of the estuary from you, and I drank Shepherd Neame, so I actually prefer Southern beer, especially as you get a full measure without all that froth.
I'd see myself as a participant observer in all this Audax and Time Trialling stuff. I realise that you can never be impartial when you're involved in a sub-culture. The early partiality was inevitable, and there were remarks about Kurt coming from a 'privileged' country.

The end game was always going to be different, and the niggling partiality might have continued if Steve hadn't had the accident. A key pivotal point for me was when Steve rode up to Hoppo's place early on, and put in a big day, presumably paced by Chris, that led to a run of short days. I interviewed Hoppo around that time, as he was shepherding his fiancée around a 200, when she had PBP aspirations. He was also doing early-season training for Ultra Marathons in the US. He said at that point that Steve would be doing some very big mileage days in the Summer.

The consensus on here was that this wasn't a race, and it didn't matter if Kurt got ahead. That feeling got entrenched post-accident, and then the de-coupling of the two efforts after the restart took the direct competition out of the equation.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Charlie Boy on December 18, 2015, 10:10:58 pm
Let's not forget that Steve has from April to August next year, peak months for audaxers and riders of his experience, to claw miles back. Yes, he's had some shit luck but he's also got the pedigree to pull it back.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: andrew531 on December 18, 2015, 10:19:58 pm
Hope so.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Jaded on December 18, 2015, 11:17:18 pm
I think that it is fair to say that the knockers on both sides have NOT been part of either Kurt's or Steve's respective teams but simply kibitzers, or whatever the terminology is in cycling!

And, I wish those bloody persistent knockers of Steve's gargantuan efforts would bugger off and crawl under a stone too.

+1
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Fidgetbuzz on December 18, 2015, 11:41:58 pm
I think that it is fair to say that the knockers on both sides have NOT been part of either Kurt's or Steve's respective teams but simply kibitzers, or whatever the terminology is in cycling!

+1

Absolutely NOT true -- i was the money man -- i attended the start on 1st Jan --and for example  I put significant effort into Steves PBP .. organising ferries, hotels , support vehicle and team , collecting steves bike from MK , getting it across and thru registration without Steve being present. . I have refrained from being negative until now as I thought that it might disadvantage Steve -- and my very few posts have been factual and very carefully considered, and I remain very unhappy at the way donors have been treated

Coming back to the reality of the challenge for the 8+ months that i was part of the team -- there was never any team debate on the ways to maximise Steves chances of beating the record.

I have huge respect for Steve and his achievement  and the miles that he does crank out .. - BUT .. his approach at the moment  is not going to maximise his mileage . This is a far far bigger challenge than any of us understood at the beginning - steves personal prediction of what was his maximum is sadly wrong -- it is just not possible in the UK for him to do the miles using the present approach. Change the method -- and maybe he could do it .

I would be absolutely delighted if using the present approach he could do it -- i remain gob smacked at the determination to ride one legged round the Mk bowl  -- but the reality is this is a very amateur effort at cracking the record.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: LMT on December 18, 2015, 11:53:08 pm
Interesting.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Peter on December 19, 2015, 12:46:06 am
I hope I'm completely wrong, and I know Steve occasionally gives upbeat reports but am I the only one that worries about whether or not he might be riding himself to a breakdown, desperate not to disappoint himself or his supporters?  I would hate to think that the persistent GO STEVES make him feel he just can't listen to his body, if that's what he really should be doing.  I, for one, would think no less of Steve if he stopped now.

Jeremiah
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Wowbagger on December 19, 2015, 12:57:42 am
Arising out of Fidgetbuzz's post, I agree that what Steve has achieved has been absolutely amazing. What is more, he has done what? Over 60000 miles after suffering a broken ankle and a month (or more) in the way of debilitating stomach trouble? Tomsk and I had a conversation about Steve's chances of success about a fortnight into 2015 and we agreed that the only thing that would stop Steve would be injury. I suppose you can call illness a subset of injury, especially if it is induced by what he has been doing.

I think we have seen precious little of him riding at his best throughout the year. We have seen huge courage and determination - more than I think I have ever seen in any other sportsman - but we haven't seen him putting in the miles that he believes he is capable of. However, I think we have seen enough to realise that he hasn't put together sequences which, given where he is now, will overtake Tommy by August, nor whatever Kurt achieves by the end of his year.

I would be fully supportive of Steve taking a break, recovering from his illness and any lingering injuries he still has, having a rest and if he were so minded have another go with whatever approach he thinks appropriate. What I would hate would be for Steve to carry on for so long with what becomes an increasingly futile attempt that people take him less seriously next time round, should he make another attempt.

Edit: cross-post with Peter. Steve is a lovely chap and a marvellous cyclist, but I worry that he might be doing himself unnecessary damage.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Frank9755 on December 19, 2015, 07:28:58 am
Thanks, Fidgetbuzz, for explaining a bit more of the situation.  My views are also very similar to yours and those of other subsequent posters.

I think that Steve is on the verge of a great achievement, riding himself into fourth or fifth place on the all-time list, despite having had lots of time off with a broken ankle.  Over the last few days, I've firmly come round to the view that he would be best advised to leave it at that for now, stop riding on 31 Dec, and get back to normality.  At that point, he could also start the proper planning needed for a future attempt - if he still wants to have another go and, indeed, if he still wants to do any more cycling in the forseeable future after this year.

I am also concerned that Steve, with no outside counsel, could otherwise ride himself into a state of poor physical and mental health, to his long-term detriment.  From the outset, I felt that the end of the attempt - be it successful or not - would potentially be a difficult time for Steve (and raised that with FB as something we should all have in mind a year ago when he was working on setting it all up).  I also believe that those of us who have encouraged and supported him - financially (I speak as a sponsor) and by otherwise encouraging him to do this - owe him a duty of care by encouraging him to stop when it seems the wise course of action. 
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: jamesld8 on December 19, 2015, 08:02:11 am
Very wise and well thought out words Frank. Just seeing how progress for Steve has decreased over last few days, post on Strava about going into a deep sleep instead of an afternoon nap, very sadly suggests that he is very near his physical and mental limits.
I wish Steve all the very best on whatever he needs to do now, and just hope that he doesn't` completely grind himself down.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: JohnR on December 19, 2015, 08:07:21 am
I hope I'm completely wrong, and I know Steve occasionally gives upbeat reports but am I the only one that worries about whether or not he might be riding himself to a breakdown, desperate not to disappoint himself or his supporters?  I would hate to think that the persistent GO STEVES make him feel he just can't listen to his body, if that's what he really should be doing.  I, for one, would think no less of Steve if he stopped now.

Jeremiah

I've been thinking this for some time. Each picture of Steve I see I think he looks exhausted due to sleep deprivation. I fear for his health. The body cannot continue in this way indefinitely without kicking back. I agree with peter, he should stop now and recuperate over Christmas and re-think his strategy before re-starting the challenge. Either way I wish him well.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: toontra on December 19, 2015, 09:30:41 am
Back in July I posted this:

Let's hope the weight of expectation (his own as well as others) isn't pushing Steve to attempt more than he is able to handle, mentally and physically.  I hope there someone in the team that Steve trusts that would be able to call a halt if (heaven forbid) things start looking risky?

It has been pretty clear that Steve has been on the limit for the whole year (minus the accident recovery period). He must be mentally and physically frazzled. Who is now making the decisions about what is possible, sensible and indeed safe?

It's clear that one of Alicia's most important roles has been to look after Kurt's well-being, and says one of the hardest things has been making sure he is keeping healthy both in body and mind.  Left to his own devices things may have turned out very differently. Decisions about strategy are discussed on a daily basis and he trusts her opinion enough to pretty much follow her advice.  I'm worried that Steve doesn't have anyone fulfilling that role.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Peter on December 19, 2015, 09:37:18 am
toontra, I hadn't seen that (I don't check this daily).
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: andyoxon on December 19, 2015, 10:15:17 am
It would be great if Steve can maintain recovery enough to complete a 100 000 km cycled in a year - currently he's on 99 090 km (Strava)... 13 days to go.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: TimC on December 19, 2015, 10:22:14 am
Toontra, that's a very good point. In all the enthusiasm to urge Steve on, only Steve (it would seem) is in a position to say 'enough'. I hope he feels able to do so.

PB, and Jaded, I don't read any of this as knocking Steve. It's more a recognition that the record is slipping away from him and a concern that the reasons for that may be more than just bad luck. FB has described his misgivings about the attitude to benefactors, and the secrecy, and these factors suggest that a different, more open, approach might have garnered more, and more useful, support. However, at the end of the day it's Steve's choice how the attempt is made and run. I hope he's in sufficiently good shape to make sure it ends safely, whether or not it ends successfully.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Jaded on December 19, 2015, 10:31:21 am
Hi Tim, I think you are probably right, many comments are not knocking Steve, but are showing concern. The trouble is that the comments (generally) are affected by the knockers though, sadly.

Whether he gets a nominal record or not, he is doing something that no one has ever done before, ride this huge distance in the current UK. If it was an easy, armchair considered activity then why are the other contenders all in different countries?
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: TimC on December 19, 2015, 10:41:26 am
What he has achieved already is abso-bloody-lutely amazing and, even if he stopped today, it would stand as a testament to determination, guts and bloody-mindedness that would be very, very difficult to surpass. It would be great if he could make 100,000 km in the year, as Andy mentions above, but his health is the most important thing. I know he's been to see the doc from time to time, therefore he's not ignoring his health - so we have to trust that he's ok. I wish we had an insider's confirmation of that.

But, I agree with your main point - to achieve this record in modern UK is probably a lot more challenging than anyone - including Steve - thought. Doing it anywhere is mind-boggling, but the combination of weather (and it really hasn't been that bad by UK standards) and road conditions adds an extra degree of difficulty. I remain gobsmacked as to how much Steve has achieved.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Polar Bear on December 19, 2015, 11:08:18 am
Do any of you think that all this negative talk doesn't have a negative effect on Steve?   How is it helping him at all?
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: mattc on December 19, 2015, 11:18:53 am
I think that it is fair to say that the knockers on both sides have NOT been part of either Kurt's or Steve's respective teams but simply kibitzers, or whatever the terminology is in cycling!

And, I wish those bloody persistent knockers of Steve's gargantuan efforts would bugger off and crawl under a stone too.

+1
+1

Armchair experts, for the most part. I suspect many realise their physical/mental attributes look pretty pathetic compared to Steve's; so to massage their ego they resort to criticising his tactics.

[although FidgetBuzz should be recognised as the one honourable exception.
plus there are 1-or-two on here who also know enough to make informed criticisms; they know who they are, I hope. ]
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Freya on December 19, 2015, 11:23:17 am
Is the purpose of the thread to help Steve or to have a discussion? He doesn't have to read it. In fact, if I was him would avoid any thread with a title like this at a time when the challenge has become a struggle. (Unless I decided I needed advice on how to change things.) TBH if you are talking about helping him I'm not sure how repeating 'Steve knows best' is of much assistance when things haven't gone as planned.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Mr Larrington on December 19, 2015, 11:26:23 am
I remain far from convinced that anyone, with the (possible) exception of Steve and Kurt, realised just how hard breaking this record was going to be.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: mattc on December 19, 2015, 11:28:03 am
Ah, the Free Speech argument!

As long you're happy Freya ...
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: TimC on December 19, 2015, 11:30:15 am
Do any of you think that all this negative talk doesn't have a negative effect on Steve?   How is it helping him at all?

Firstly, like you, Steve has the choice of whether to read this or not. Secondly, if you expect a venture like this to pass without commentary from the full range of opinions and expertise, you're dreaming. Like all great (and not so great) challenges, it will prompt praise, conversation, speculation and criticism. If Steve didn't have a thick skin before 2015, he has probably developed one by now!

In any case, as I've already said, I don't think any of the above can be construed as malicious criticism. Yes, we're pretty much all armchair experts - as we are with football, Formula 1, the application of the law, politicians, drug-taking in sport, who is or isn't a twat, what motorists should do, and just about any other topic that appears on YACF. It's a board for idle conversation and gossip, much of it uninformed or just plain wrong. This thread, rather unusually, is almost unanimous in its support for and admiration of its subject - the HAM'R challenge and those who've taken it on. That there's discussion about its outcome and its conduct is natural.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Lady Cavendish on December 19, 2015, 11:33:04 am
I've kept very quiet in this whole thing, and won't comment on strategies/diets/etc etc. What Steve has chosen to do is his decision, whether I have felt things are right or wrong, that's not my call.

PB, yes, Steve probably does read all this, and it may have a negative effect. But would it be better for everyone to just say Go Steve, Go Steve every day, even though things may not be all well. I don't want Steve to feel any external pressure to continue with this at the expense of his own long term health.

If Steve feels he needs a few lesser miles days and he can catch it up, then that's all well and good. But if he isn't well, and it's not improving, running himself to breaking point or worse just quite frankly isn't worth it. Whether he wants another attempt in a year or so using what he has learnt, or enough is enough, then I'm sure people will be with him either way and would fund it again.

But I like Steve a lot, I count him as a friend, and I would hate to see him do some permanent or serious damage. There IS more to life than the record, we know Steve is a phenomenal long distance rider, he has had some bad luck for sure. When you are so tired, so broken, and so focused, it can be very hard to look rationally at things, and beyond the one thing you desperately want to achieve.

Personally, I would much rather see Steve stop now, or at least at the end of the month, recover, sort the diet stuff out, use what he has learnt and maybe try again in a year or so- from where I'm sitting it looks like it's slipped away, but he may not feel like that, and have some sort of plan, but of course it has all been so secretive- which I've never understood. I want to go and look after him, give him a cuddle and mother him for a while!!! But it's nothing to do with me, not my decision. I think a lot of people are also just showing concern, not knocking Steve. I would do anything to help him.

If he feels ok in himself, then fine, ride away. I just hope he is not beyond exhausted that he can't make rational decisions, and hope he is getting advice from somewhere.

Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Pale Rider on December 19, 2015, 11:41:21 am
Ah, the Free Speech argument!

As long you're happy Freya ...

Ah, so the only posts about Steve to be allowed are ones that you approve of.

Get real - it's a public attempt and cannot be immune to comment and criticism.

You don't need to be a long distance cycling expert to see the second attempt is in big trouble and almost bound to fail.

Obvious next question is what to do about that.

Steve has never shown himself capable of riding 210+mile days consecutively for months on end.

Thus a big rethink is needed.

Stopping at the end of this year and aiming for a restart in Jan 2017 would give some time to devise and test a strategy.

Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Bianchi Boy on December 19, 2015, 12:27:57 pm
I have managed PBP, LEL, LEJoG at about 200 miles a day. I was knackered at the end and time some some time off to gather my strength. I did LEJoG again this year at about 120 miles a day and thought I could have gone on for another ride and could have ridden home at the end. We all have our limits and Steve looks like he has found his. I hope it is just a blip and he is back on his game and we all feel relieved.

In other posts I have mentioned diet and any new attempt should take a long look at this. One thing we forget is that in the 1930s food had a lot more goodness. Intensive farming has kept the calories the same, but has reduced the minerals, vitamins and trace elements. Processed food has the lowest concentration of goodness. This will not be easy to sort out and although Kurt has done a few well publicised junk food eating sessions I always thought there was some proper food being prepared every night.

I hope I feel foolish for writing this and Steve powers on to set the record, but long term issues appear to have set in.

BB
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Arry-R on December 19, 2015, 01:05:48 pm
Last three posts are excellent.  Lady Cavendish please do post more as yours was well worth the read and full of very sound sense.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: mattc on December 19, 2015, 01:14:28 pm
Ah, the Free Speech argument!

As long you're happy Freya ...

Ah, so the only posts about Steve to be allowed are ones that you approve of.
Nope, I didnt say that.

( I cant currently be arsed with a debate about free speech here - see elsewhere, you'll find that it's been examined quite extensively! )
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Exit Stage Left on December 19, 2015, 01:18:10 pm
Steve's doing three things at once. The Tommy Godwin Record attempt, the One Year Time Trial and the HAMR.

The Godwin record was originally within the context of the Cycling magazine mile-eater award. Steve's got that sewn up within the UK.

The One Year Time trial should be just that in my opinion. I've seen Steve do the 24 many times. He's kept coming back, because it's just something you do if you're that kind of cyclist. Winning doesn't come into it, it's a way of testing what you are capable of on an annual basis.

The HAMR is something you can start any time, in any place, and seems to inhabit planet Strava.

Comments on here are about the Tommy Godwin Record Attempt, which was the original driver of what Steve is doing. The One Year Time Trial crew don't comment here, that's something that inhabits planet Facebook. It's all become a bit tangled, with three sets of 'stakeholders', but there's just one Steve.

Plenty of high-profile cyclists start record attempts, and pack when they're not on track. That Bruce Berkeley has had a go at the LEJOGLE record twice, and pulled out with a knee problem both times. That's seen as a 'soft' record, as it's not RRA sanctioned. There seem to be attempts on various LEJOG records every year. http://road.cc/content/news/160466-bike-mechanic-attempt-record-cycling-land-s-end-john-o-groats-and-back-again

The 'One Year Time Trial' is the easiest story to comprehend, Steve's a couple of weeks away from completing that. Whether he carries on with the HAMR restart is up to him.

Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: mattc on December 19, 2015, 01:22:42 pm
In other posts I have mentioned diet and any new attempt should take a long look at this. One thing we forget is that in the 1930s food had a lot more goodness. Intensive farming has kept the calories the same, but has reduced the minerals, vitamins and trace elements. Processed food has the lowest concentration of goodness. This will not be easy to sort out and although Kurt has done a few well publicised junk food eating sessions I always thought there was some proper food being prepared every night.
Think you're right.

Of course we know Steve/team have looked at his diet recently and made BIG changes. Which hopefully will pay off in the long term.

I'm certain Kurt is eating a lot of good stuff, and just posts about the Krispy Kremes (or whatever!) for a bit of light relief. IIRC they posted a piccie quite recently showing loads of modern "healthy" sports drinks/supplements/snacks?
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: toontra on December 19, 2015, 01:22:48 pm
( I cant currently be arsed with a debate about free speech here - see elsewhere, you'll find that it's been examined quite extensively! )

Your posts over the past year have consistently represented the worst aspects of any forum discussion - defensive, patronising and aggressive in equal measure.  You profess to support Steve - you don't have a monopoly in that position, and your attitude is doing Steve absolutely no favours.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: mattc on December 19, 2015, 01:28:37 pm
( I cant currently be arsed with a debate about free speech here - see elsewhere, you'll find that it's been examined quite extensively! )

Your posts over the past year have consistently represented the worst aspects of any forum discussion - defensive, patronising and aggressive in equal measure.  You profess to support Steve - you don't have a monopoly in that position, and your attitude is doing Steve absolutely no favours.
Thanks for that!

Luckily I know my relationship with Steve quite well. Of course input from random strangers on the internet is always welcome - nothing is beyond comment in this day and age  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Foghat on December 19, 2015, 02:01:52 pm
You profess to support Steve - you don't have a monopoly in that position, and your attitude is doing Steve absolutely no favours.

Quite.

The head-in-the-sand foolishness and all the naive "in Steve we trust", "don't question the strategy", "Steve knows what he's doing" nonsense is doing his record attempt a far greater dis-service than all the constructive criticism that is actually getting posted here (from people who all clearly want the best outcome for Steve). 

It's been obvious for months that the strategy is seriously flawed as a record-breaking strategy (which is the stated aim), rather than as a 'let's see how many miles can be done fighting headwinds for hours each day on a heavy touring bike' strategy.  The deniers would have done well to put their effort into convincing Steve that his strategy was just going to achieve the latter, rather than encourage him into wasting all that effort instead of re-thinking.

Unless breaking the record wasn't really ever that important compared with just having a year or two off work cycling all day.....
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: TheRedEyeJedi on December 19, 2015, 02:24:14 pm
I struggle to understand why there has not been an attempt to try something different?  Be it motor transfers, pacing in a group, going abroad, riding a short, fast loop, changing the bike ect ect.   You have to assume the will or intent to change is just not there

With that in mind, at the moment this is looking more like self harm than a serious record attempt - and I find that sad because I think Steve could break the record with better strategy.   

His ability to get up everyday regardless of conditions to sit and peddle a bike for hours is unparalleled.... his ability to cover ground, quickly and easily enough to sustain the record attempt is however in question.   Some fast, flat miles drafting some other riders seems to me the only way to pull himself out of this.   

Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: LMT on December 19, 2015, 02:58:43 pm
Foghat has it right.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: LMT on December 19, 2015, 03:00:29 pm
Do any of you think that all this negative talk doesn't have a negative effect on Steve?   How is it helping him at all?

it's constructive criticism. Sometimes the rider does not know best.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: hillbilly on December 19, 2015, 04:13:45 pm
I would like to think Steve will realise that many of the post over the past couple of days basically reflect that most of us care for his happiness and wellbeing, as well as whether or not he achieves the record.  Most of us can empathise with his efforts, even if we can't fully understand what he is going through.

I could also see why he has apparently ruled out many of suggestions made in recent weeks, in the context of his preferred modus operandi.  Just because a suggestion is made, it doesn't make it a sensible one to follow.  And in that spirit, I'll suggest he sticks to the usual audax trick of focusing on the short term when things aren't going to plan, in the expectation that things will get better.  Which they will, surely.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: mattc on December 19, 2015, 04:44:00 pm
Do any of you think that all this negative talk doesn't have a negative effect on Steve?   How is it helping him at all?

it's constructive criticism. Sometimes the rider does not know best.
I would say there is a wide variety of criticism on this thread. Some of it is constructive. Some of it is stuff like this:
Quote
Unless breaking the record wasn't really ever that important compared with just having a year or two off work cycling all day.....

To me - speaking as a friend of Steve - I just find this snide and nasty.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Polar Bear on December 19, 2015, 05:33:55 pm
Do any of you think that all this negative talk doesn't have a negative effect on Steve?   How is it helping him at all?

it's constructive criticism. Sometimes the rider does not know best.

And neither do the vocal critics and self-appointed experts.   How is Steve supposed to adopt hundreds of differing and disjointed views.   Coaching and managment is about cohesion, strategy and planning, not disparate and random musings.   
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Peter on December 19, 2015, 05:46:40 pm
Mike, this isn't a coaching manual, it's a conversation.  There's no-one on here who doesn't wish Steve well, or think that he is more important than a record.

Peter
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Jaded on December 19, 2015, 05:48:15 pm
Mike, this isn't a coaching manual, it's a conversation.  There's no-one on here who doesn't wish Steve well, or think that he is more important than a record.

Peter

Peter, there are one or two posting on here for whom Steve appears to matter little.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Peter on December 19, 2015, 05:56:26 pm
J, I haven't read them all, so I've probably missed them, sorry.  What I find impossible to do is to equate concern for Steve's wellbeing with being negative.  I certainly have absolutely no qualifications to suggest how Steve should approach record-breaking.  But I care about him.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Ben T on December 19, 2015, 10:27:52 pm
Steve carries on not cos it's good strategy but cos he's an audaxer, it's just what he does - like scorpion and frog.
If he is calling it a day he might as well at least see the year out, there's only ten or so days left now, even if the chances of breaking the record are minimal.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Ben T on December 19, 2015, 10:31:30 pm

Unless breaking the record wasn't really ever that important compared with just having a year or two off work cycling all day.....
get the impression seeing how far an audax style strategy could go towards breaking the record is an important part, possibly more important than actually becoming the record holder.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: LMT on December 19, 2015, 10:33:38 pm
Steve carries on not cos it's good strategy but cos he's an audaxer, it's just what he does - like scorpion and frog.
If he is calling it a day he might as well at least see the year out, there's only ten or so days left now, even if the chances of breaking the record are minimal.

Agreed, hopefully he'll break through the 100k barrier.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Ben T on December 19, 2015, 10:40:43 pm

Unless breaking the record wasn't really ever that important compared with just having a year or two off work cycling all day.....
get the impression seeing how far an audax style strategy could go towards breaking the record is an important part, possibly more important than actually becoming the record holder.

Although to be fair Kurt would probably have been able to do even more miles if he'd simply ridden a velodrome for 15 hours a day, so in effect even he has sacrificed miles added onto the record for the trade off of doing the type of cycling he wants, just - crucially - not quite as much as Steve.
It's quite possible that Kurt's record will stand until someone  ruins themselves on hallucinogenics and literally does do a velodrome.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Mr Larrington on December 19, 2015, 11:52:47 pm
You don't need hallucinogenics to drive yourself bonkers riding a velodrome - twenty-four hours straight will see you most of the way there.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: mattc on December 20, 2015, 07:38:52 am
Mike, this isn't a coaching manual, it's a conversation.  There's no-one on here who doesn't wish Steve well, or think that he is more important than a record.

Peter

Peter, there are one or two posting on here for whom Steve appears to matter little.

Peter,
One of your many flaws is that you inisist in seeing good in people.  ;)

After spending time on the internet, it becomes clear that there are many reasons for giving advice; concern for the recipient is not always a feature.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: TheRedEyeJedi on December 20, 2015, 08:02:07 am
Mike, this isn't a coaching manual, it's a conversation.  There's no-one on here who doesn't wish Steve well, or think that he is more important than a record.

Peter

Peter, there are one or two posting on here for whom Steve appears to matter little.

Peter,
One of your many flaws is that you inisist in seeing good in people.  ;)

After spending time on the internet, it becomes clear that there are many reasons for giving advice; concern for the recipient is not always a feature.


So how do you think Steves second attempt is gong?  What do you think he should do differently , if anything?

I've seen the very worst of Internet forums ... And this thread is a Godwin away from that!   Apart from maybe one post I don't think there is anything over the top in here and for the most part it is respectful, constructive and comes with an overwhelming emphasis on Steves well being and success
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Ben T on December 20, 2015, 09:20:40 am
You don't need hallucinogenics to drive yourself bonkers riding a velodrome - twenty-four hours straight will see you most of the way there.

My point exactly - you'd only even consider deliberately driving yourself bonkers if you were *already* bonkers through (possibly semi accidental) means.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: TheRedEyeJedi on December 20, 2015, 09:30:53 am
You don't need hallucinogenics to drive yourself bonkers riding a velodrome - twenty-four hours straight will see you most of the way there.

My point exactly - you'd only even consider deliberately driving yourself bonkers if you were *already* bonkers through (possibly semi accidental) means.

Im not sure why a fast, repetitive day, week or month of cycling is being seen as such a hard thing for a rider to cope with during this attempt.

There must be enough tough miles, out on the road by yourself to welcome the easy repetitive miles.

I would argue that a few weeks of fast, easy, no traffic miles would be a massive mental boost to any rider in an attempt like this.    From Kurts videos it appeared his attempt was on a knife-edge before Alicia convinced him to go onto the closed circuit and arranged riders to give him a tow.   I would love to see whoever is running Steves attempt try to arrange similar conditions for Steve over Christmas - it might just get the attempt back on track - at the very least it would give him maximum miles before the year end without putting him out in the wild on his own again.


Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: red marley on December 20, 2015, 09:41:40 am
Kurt's Flatwood loop is around 8 miles long. A velodrome loop is about 0.2 miles long. I don't think you can extrapolate Kurt's recent experience at Flatwood to suggest anyone could mange repeated 200 mile+ velodrome days without going completely bonkers.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: TheRedEyeJedi on December 20, 2015, 09:55:00 am
Kurt's Flatwood loop is around 8 miles long. A velodrome loop is about 0.2 miles long. I don't think you can extrapolate Kurt's recent experience at Flatwood to suggest anyone could mange repeated 200 mile+ velodrome days without going completely bonkers.

Just to be clear I am not suggesting he rides around a velodrome .... I am suggesting Steves team or the community locate him a suitable loop close to home, or close to the home of someone who could be a host for him.   Get some riders he trusts or just local riders to ride for him and lets see him get some 'Godwins plus a bit' knocked off at 18-20mph on a faster bike, without the touring gear....without taking as much out of himself.   Maybe get some local clubs on board - with people who are used to riding fast and safely in a group.

Most of us have a local 10 mile loop that we know is fast and flat - there must be enough knowledge on here to provide a suitable location to mirror Kurts fastest month.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Ben T on December 20, 2015, 09:57:53 am

Im not sure why a fast, repetitive day, week or month of cycling is being seen as such a hard thing for a rider to cope with during this attempt.

There must be enough tough miles, out on the road by yourself to welcome the easy repetitive miles.

I would argue that a few weeks of fast, easy, no traffic miles would be a massive mental boost to any rider in an attempt like this.   
Yes but surely the best* way to beat / improve the record would be to have a strategy that doesn't include ANY tough miles.

*For values of "best" that are solely bothered about number of miles.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Ben T on December 20, 2015, 10:00:28 am
Kurt's Flatwood loop is around 8 miles long. A velodrome loop is about 0.2 miles long. I don't think you can extrapolate Kurt's recent experience at Flatwood to suggest anyone could mange repeated 200 mile+ velodrome days without going completely bonkers.

...thus highlighting the point that this is a sport where the world championship final is effectively a condition game.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: LittleWheelsandBig on December 20, 2015, 11:08:50 am
It might be worth noting that Steve's bikes aren't exactly stock, with faster and lighter wheels and aerobars that put him in quite an aero position. I'm not sure that a lighter bike is a huge advantage on flat ground and an a aero frame is only marginally useful at speeds below 19 miles/ hour. Using a fast loop and drafting strong riders would make a noticeable difference though.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: yanto on December 20, 2015, 11:57:59 am
Being a biased velomobile rider I would suggest using a good aerodynamic model, especially on a lot of roads Steve rides.

An example being that a typical long distance cruising speed of 23-25 mph on the flat only requires about 120 watts, a 20 mph head wind will only knock about 2 mph off that cruising speed. Plus lots of food/drink can be carried easily reducing the need for repeated stops. A real time overall average speed including stops of 20-21 mph is easily achievable.

This means that 10-12 hrs out on the road would give sufficient mileage and rest time,
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Wowbagger on December 20, 2015, 12:01:03 pm
And it would keep the worst of the winter weather out, so you wouldn't get so cold, and therefore so knackered. I wouldn't fancy it in summer though.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: clarion on December 20, 2015, 12:05:02 pm
Are fairings allowed under UMCA rules?
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Arry-R on December 20, 2015, 01:06:21 pm
Unnecessary waffle as Steve is most unlikely to switch from a proper bike!
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: LMT on December 20, 2015, 01:30:48 pm
Are fairings allowed under UMCA rules?

nope.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: offcumden on December 20, 2015, 01:55:25 pm
Meanwhile, Steve is riding a favourable wind to good effect; 80+ miles in just over 4hrs.

I assume he must be feeling better - let's hope so.  Recent problems must have been hellish for him.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: notlobgp14 on December 20, 2015, 02:06:11 pm
I am fairly sure the information will be classified, you ex MOD people will know what I mean, but; is this the day for Steve's first lift back home by car / van / motorhome?

Wind assisted up recuperation whilst coming back. 😊
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Arry-R on December 20, 2015, 03:23:17 pm
I think it will be his first lift all year  (on the challenge ) I know that he isn't a happy passenger always on other occasions preferring to ride on his bike than partake of a lift.  However I am sure this approach must be for the better.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: TheRedEyeJedi on December 20, 2015, 03:30:36 pm
Has there been some communication to suggest there will be a motor transfer?
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: mattc on December 20, 2015, 03:31:26 pm
I've seen the very worst of Internet forums ... And this thread is a Godwin away from that!   Apart from maybe one post I don't think there is anything over the top in here and for the most part it is respectful, constructive and comes with an overwhelming emphasis on Steves well being and success
Of course there are respectful constructive posts  - hoorah for that. :)

However, I reserve the right to defend a friend when dicks make twattish comments. Be it here, twitter or down my local.

Clearly we will never agree on what EXACTY is offensive, or what is respectful - so it's probably fruitless to discuss. But I know it when I see it, and will say so.

(p.s. nice "Godwin" wordplay - if it was deliberate!  :thumbsup: )
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Exit Stage Left on December 20, 2015, 03:48:31 pm
The time-trial has always been characterised as the race of truth, and we get daily updates on that. The gap between that truth, and the expectations in going for a record, are going to be filled with something. As that gap narrows for Kurt, there's less to be said. The opposite's been true of Steve for a number of weeks.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: rafletcher on December 20, 2015, 04:26:21 pm
Meanwhile, Steve is riding a favourable wind to good effect; 80+ miles in just over 4hrs.

However it's now 90+ miles in 6 1/2 hrs (I assume there must have been a lunch stop) and he's rapidly running out of land to visit with the following wind.  I can only marvel at the mental fortitude and physical committment it takes to get up every day and do what Steve has been doing 7/7, but I fear he's just not fast enough consistently enough at present. I hope to be proven wrong, and Steve has my best wishes, as always. 
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: yanto on December 20, 2015, 06:03:35 pm
Unnecessary waffle as Steve is most unlikely to switch from a proper bike!

  My humble apologies  ::-)!

And as for "proper bike" all i see is somebody stuck in the 1920's and suffering for it!  I wasn't suggesting he changed, i was making an anecdotal comparison, you may think it's "unnecessary waffle" I thought it might be an interesting comparison, but I bow to your obviously pompous dinosaur like superiority in policing this thread to keep it "proper"  you :smug: b'stard.



Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Exit Stage Left on December 20, 2015, 06:13:54 pm
There must be a highest annual mileage in a velomobile, I wonder what it is?
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: yanto on December 20, 2015, 06:30:54 pm
Are fairings allowed under UMCA rules?

nope.

Yes.  From the UMCA rules:

"SOLOS:
Gender: Male & Female
Age Groups: 18-49, 50-59, 60-69 and Over 70
Bicycle Type: Standard, Recumbent and HPV"

A velomobile is an HPV (Human Powered Vehicle), it just can't be compared against a std or 'bent for Championship purposes.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: LMT on December 20, 2015, 07:33:02 pm
Are fairings allowed under UMCA rules?

nope.

Yes.  From the UMCA rules:

"SOLOS:
Gender: Male & Female
Age Groups: 18-49, 50-59, 60-69 and Over 70
Bicycle Type: Standard, Recumbent and HPV"

A velomobile is an HPV (Human Powered Vehicle), it just can't be compared against a std or 'bent for Championship purposes.

Rule 5...or otherwise I'd borrow a WAW, rent a place in Norfolk and put in over 100000 miles for the year easy.

The HPV you refer to would be something like a hand cycle or an eliptigo et al.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Mr Larrington on December 20, 2015, 07:36:32 pm
Are fairings allowed under UMCA rules?

nope.

Yes.  From the UMCA rules:

"SOLOS:
Gender: Male & Female
Age Groups: 18-49, 50-59, 60-69 and Over 70
Bicycle Type: Standard, Recumbent and HPV"

A velomobile is an HPV (Human Powered Vehicle), it just can't be compared against a std or 'bent for Championship purposes.

But from the HAMR rules:

Quote from: UMCA

Rider may use any bike type, or combination of bike types, except for faired recumbents. There will not be separate record categories based on bike type. (This means standard frame bikes and recumbents will be on equal basis for this record.)


(My emphasis)
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: mattc on December 20, 2015, 07:50:45 pm
For months I've been baffled as to why Tarzan doesnt use the recumbent for most of his mileage. He seemed to go OK in it early on, so surely there were enough miles in the year to get comfortably adapted.

There can't be any doubt that his choice of terrain/roads suit a down-wrong. Can there?  :-\
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Polar Bear on December 20, 2015, 07:59:47 pm
Are fairings allowed under UMCA rules?

nope.

Yes.  From the UMCA rules:

"SOLOS:
Gender: Male & Female
Age Groups: 18-49, 50-59, 60-69 and Over 70
Bicycle Type: Standard, Recumbent and HPV"

A velomobile is an HPV (Human Powered Vehicle), it just can't be compared against a std or 'bent for Championship purposes.

But from the HAMR rules:

Quote from: UMCA

Rider may use any bike type, or combination of bike types, except for faired recumbents. There will not be separate record categories based on bike type. (This means standard frame bikes and recumbents will be on equal basis for this record.)


(My emphasis)

Does this mean that LMT is going to ...

... borrow a WAW, rent a place in Norfolk and put in over 100000 miles for the year easy.
...
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: mattc on December 20, 2015, 08:05:26 pm
Sorry PB, but I think a WAW is fully-faired - so we'll have to give LMT the b-of-the-d on that one :P

Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Mr Larrington on December 20, 2015, 08:11:23 pm
Sorry PB, but I think a WAW is fully-faired - so we'll have to give LMT the b-of-the-d on that one :P

(http://www.recumbent-gallery.eu/wp-content/uploads/velomobile-fietser-waw-12.jpg)

A WAW, yesterday.  Strictly forbidden.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: LMT on December 20, 2015, 08:12:35 pm
For months I've been baffled as to why Tarzan doesnt use the recumbent for most of his mileage. He seemed to go OK in it early on, so surely there were enough miles in the year to get comfortably adapted.

There can't be any doubt that his choice of terrain/roads suit a down-wrong. Can there?  :-\

What's a down-wrong?
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: mattc on December 20, 2015, 08:15:16 pm
Opposite of an upright.

HTH
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: LMT on December 20, 2015, 08:16:43 pm
Very nice Mr L, I'm thinking around the 180w mark to get upto cruising speed of around 28mph. Fully faired and a trike means any weather, ice or not. My FTP is around the 330w mark so 180w would be a recovery ride. The biggest problem would be boredom when doing the miles but I'd rig some sort of music system to keep me going.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: LMT on December 20, 2015, 08:18:21 pm
Opposite of an upright.

HTH

Not really, what's an upright?
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: hellymedic on December 20, 2015, 08:32:41 pm
A 'normal' bicycle.
Saddle above pedals and usually about level with handlebars.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Wowbagger on December 20, 2015, 08:33:29 pm
A 'normal' bicycle.
Saddle above pedals and usually about level with handlebars.

AKA a DF (diamond-framed) bicycle.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Kim on December 20, 2015, 09:45:15 pm
A 'normal' bicycle.
Saddle above pedals and usually about level with handlebars.

AKA a DF (diamond-framed) bicycle.

AKA 'upwrong' or 'wedgie'
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Martin on December 20, 2015, 10:16:47 pm
Steve carries on not cos it's good strategy but cos he's an audaxer, it's just what he does - like scorpion and frog.
If he is calling it a day he might as well at least see the year out, there's only ten or so days left now, even if the chances of breaking the record are minimal.

I can't see Steve stopping at any point before August myself
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Jaded on December 20, 2015, 11:44:25 pm
and why should he when all we have got is a rather sad bunch of people who would never consider doing it themselves saying "I wouldn't do it like that!"  ???
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Fidgetbuzz on December 21, 2015, 12:15:58 am
You must think that Steves original approach was the ONLY possible way to do it -- which just has to be wrong ( and pretty stupid as an analysis too )  . Historically he would never have accepted a vehicle transfer -- but now realising that this could increase his mileage - he is very likely to do it.. personally I think this has been because people have been banging on about possible help and NOT because Steve of his own accord suddenly saw the wisdom of this idea. There are other suggestions being put forward ( not all of which might be valid as improvements ) .. but they should all be considered by the team -- and the sensible ones run past Steve to get his reaction. Nothing should be forced on him -- it has to be his decision -- but a closed mind will not get him the record.. just look at the riding record -- he has never strung together to a run of excellent days -- and in the summer was huge distances short of what he had originally said he could do.

Your rather nasty comment about  sad people -- would suggest that since there have been only 3 , 4 or 5 people ( IronOx  ?) attempting this challenge in the last 75 years -- that they are the only people who could possibly have any constructive ideas on how to tackle the challenge, and this is clearly barking mad.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Mr Larrington on December 21, 2015, 12:28:55 am
Very nice Mr L, I'm thinking around the 180w mark to get upto cruising speed of around 28mph. Fully faired and a trike means any weather, ice or not. My FTP is around the 330w mark so 180w would be a recovery ride. The biggest problem would be boredom when doing the miles but I'd rig some sort of music system to keep me going.

My grate frend Mr Bird is currently building a racing f/f recumbent trike which he reckons will give him 26-27 mph at 130W, though it's not intended for all-day habitation like a pukka velomobile.  The Milan seems to be the current state of the art as far as record-breaking goes with a 12H record of >420 miles and over 750 miles in 24H.  Which is by the by coz it's against the HAMR rules anyway.  I'm sure if one asked the WHPVA and/or IHPVA nicely they'd sanction a record under similar rules of evidence as UMCA are doing for HAMR.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Wowbagger on December 21, 2015, 12:46:22 am
ICBA to go back and check on all the kibitzing that was going on a year and more ago, but I think we all naively assumed in the early days that there couldn't possibly be two people in the world so (nicely) bonkers as to want to break this record at the same time as each other. Steve's "purist" approach was very popular, even though we were all aware that technical developments could give Steve a significant advantage over Tommy Godwin.

I suspect that we are all rather sadder and wiser men/women than we were a year ago. Assuming Kurt breaks the record and it's the Searvogel record that needs to be dealt with, I think that Steve will have to take a different approach if he is to make another serious challenge. I would think a faster bike, and allowing himself a rather higher working heart rate, so that he can up his speed a bit, will be necessary.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Jaded on December 21, 2015, 12:48:12 am
You must think that Steves original approach was the ONLY possible way to do it -- which just has to be wrong ( and pretty stupid as an analysis too )  . Historically he would never have accepted a vehicle transfer -- but now realising that this could increase his mileage - he is very likely to do it.. personally I think this has been because people have been banging on about possible help and NOT because Steve of his own accord suddenly saw the wisdom of this idea. There are other suggestions being put forward ( not all of which might be valid as improvements ) .. but they should all be considered by the team -- and the sensible ones run past Steve to get his reaction. Nothing should be forced on him -- it has to be his decision -- but a closed mind will not get him the record.. just look at the riding record -- he has never strung together to a run of excellent days -- and in the summer was huge distances short of what he had originally said he could do.

Your rather nasty comment about  sad people -- would suggest that since there have been only 3 , 4 or 5 people ( IronOx  ?) attempting this challenge in the last 75 years -- that they are the only people who could possibly have any constructive ideas on how to tackle the challenge, and this is clearly barking mad.

You are defintely not one of the sad people.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: toontra on December 21, 2015, 09:14:29 am
You are defintely not one of the sad people.

Please, can we just drop this polarising talk of "good" and "bad" people. It's not only a bit nasty but it's distracting from the discussion. 

In 34 pages of posts I can only see a single one that could possibly be construed as having a dig at Steve (gleefully quoted by mattC).  It's pretty apparent that everyone here is not only captivated by the challenge but also wants the best for Steve.

No-one here has a monopoly on representing Steve's interests, and people shouldn't claim that role for themselves and shout down others that they claim "don't know him as well as I do".  It's simplistic to the point of childishness.  A North Korean fan club approach isn't really appropriate in a discussion forum.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: red marley on December 21, 2015, 09:30:37 am
Quietly without fanfare, yesterday, Steve passed René Menzies' 1937 record – with ten days yet to ride. Sometimes it's good to be reminded what Steve has achieved so far even when things don't go exactly as planned.

At the time the battle between Menzies and Nicholson received much attention.

(http://blog.brooksengland.com/wps/wp-content/uploads/2011/07/Round-the-World.jpg)

Taking Ossie Nicholson's record before the end of the 2015 is also a realistic prospect for Steve.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: hillbilly on December 21, 2015, 09:50:17 am
In addition to stepping up to one of the upper plinths on the pantheon of the 20th century records attempts, it's perhaps worth remembering that Steve will be recorded by HAM'R as the record holder at close of play 31 December, and will hold his age-group record for at least a year. 

Not bad for a humble bloke from Bedfordshire, who likes to ride his bike.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Fidgetbuzz on December 21, 2015, 09:50:48 am
Sorry - I was a bit put out by the sad comment.

If we think about world class athletes -- and in terms of this record then Kurt and Steve are world class athletes -- they would not win a track event or a TT , or the TdF -- but at getting near the Year record they are world class. But all world class athletes in all sports have coaches and trainers to ensure maximum performance, peak fitness, improved  skills, etc etc.

Now  my experience tells me that Steves team were  led in a way that did not allow any views other than this "" Steve knows best ", which I just can not agree is correct. Add to that my unhappiness about the treatment of donors -- and you will see why after I had done my bit for PBP .. I chose to step away.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: mattc on December 21, 2015, 09:54:11 am
Quietly without fanfare, yesterday, Steve passed René Menzies' 1937 record – with ten days yet to ride. Sometimes it's good to be reminded what Steve has achieved so far even when things don't go exactly as planned.
Indeed!   :thumbsup:

And IMHO, Steve's figure has only been beaten by bona fide elite athletes; Tour de France riders, and a winner of multiple 12h and 24h races.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: notlobgp14 on December 21, 2015, 10:02:48 am

I can't see Steve stopping at any point before August myself

Unless he looks after his health he may well be forced to.

I had been thinking of posting more thoughts but I've been 'Bullied' out of it.

signed; Sad and concerned
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Wine Mechanic on December 21, 2015, 10:05:33 am
Its very clear Steve is attempting to break the record his way, in his own and style and in a manner that he is personally comfortable with. I can understand that and admire him for his commitment to the cause. I am disappointed in the lack of news about the event, at best its the title of the Strava event for the day that gives a clue to how Steve is.  The web page has nothing on it  and apart from the odd snapshot on Facebook there is not much forthcoming apart from the odd snippet from Steve's inner circle of friends.

I now question if its worth continuing to donate to the cause, nothing to do with if the record is broken or not, just from the point of view of feeling that the support given is not valued. After all it can't be too much effort to put out a news letter once a week to help keep Steve's fan club on the edge our seats.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Exit Stage Left on December 21, 2015, 10:28:08 am
Those of us who support the Mersey 24 know where Steve stands within that particular arena. An interesting aspect were his performances relative to Joel Sothern, a US rider who came over in 2007 and 2008, He's Kurt's one-time RAAM two-man team partner. Form tended to suggest that Steve and Kurt weren't too far apart in potential, with Steve having the edge in 'toughness', Kurt in speed.

It's always been interesting to compare support styles of the top contenders at the 24. Steve's support system has been complex, especially at the start of the attempt, when it was an exercise in 'crowd-sourcing'. You could probably draw some sort of Venn diagram showing how the three main 'constituencies' interested in Steve's ride interacted over time. Those constituencies being his core team, YACF and Strava/Facebook. A similar diagram for Kurt would essentially be two concentric circles, Kurt and Alicia.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: HK on December 21, 2015, 10:28:50 am


Your rather nasty comment about  sad people -- would suggest that since there have been only 3 , 4 or 5 people ( IronOx  ?) attempting this challenge in the last 75 years -- that they are the only people who could possibly have any constructive ideas on how to tackle the challenge, and this is clearly barking mad.

There are other people who take on the Year challenge. Unlike the HAMR participants they usually have full time jobs.

AUKs very own late Pat Kenny rode 30,000 miles and did his full time job as a civil engineer plus occasionally saw his wife and two daughters. There is a current AUK who regularly rides 20,000 miles plus around the day job. You won't probably heard of these people just to name a few as what they do is only found within 300,000 miles club.

So, there is a small group of cyclist who do know how to ride a year.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Auntie Helen on December 21, 2015, 10:52:05 am
Very nice Mr L, I'm thinking around the 180w mark to get upto cruising speed of around 28mph. Fully faired and a trike means any weather, ice or not. My FTP is around the 330w mark so 180w would be a recovery ride. The biggest problem would be boredom when doing the miles but I'd rig some sort of music system to keep me going.

My grate frend Mr Bird is currently building a racing f/f recumbent trike which he reckons will give him 26-27 mph at 130W, though it's not intended for all-day habitation like a pukka velomobile.  The Milan seems to be the current state of the art as far as record-breaking goes with a 12H record of >420 miles and over 750 miles in 24H.  Which is by the by coz it's against the HAMR rules anyway.  I'm sure if one asked the WHPVA and/or IHPVA nicely they'd sanction a record under similar rules of evidence as UMCA are doing for HAMR.
the DF is considered to be quicker now. Daniel Fenn (the builder) rode from Berlin to Hamburg at an average of 51km/h a few months ago.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Mr Larrington on December 21, 2015, 10:58:56 am
I have heard some Daniel Fenn stories, which seem to agree that he is a bit of a hooligan.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Lady Cavendish on December 21, 2015, 11:12:51 am


Your rather nasty comment about  sad people -- would suggest that since there have been only 3 , 4 or 5 people ( IronOx  ?) attempting this challenge in the last 75 years -- that they are the only people who could possibly have any constructive ideas on how to tackle the challenge, and this is clearly barking mad.

There are other people who take on the Year challenge. Unlike the HAMR participants they usually have full time jobs.

AUKs very own late Pat Kenny rode 30,000 miles and did his full time job as a civil engineer plus occasionally saw his wife and two daughters. There is a current AUK who regularly rides 20,000 miles plus around the day job. You won't probably heard of these people just to name a few as what they do is only found within 300,000 miles club.

So, there is a small group of cyclist who do know how to ride a year.

I ride somewhere around 25,000 miles a year around a (more than) full time job, a family, and also taking part in another sport. It just involves getting up very early and getting home quite late. I could not mentally ride 75,000 miles a year, it's a totally different kettle of fish. I'd be bored out my mind to be honest and just want to do something different. All day, every day- breaking up the day with a full time job although it takes a lot of time, I consider it nothing like the same. Physically, who knows, but I'd rather do 25,000 miles and have another life any day long, what these boys are up to is just a totally, totally different experience I reckon. But that's just me. I'm sure other people might love to be on their bike 24/7 and do nothing else. I'd miss my family and friends for a start.

I am very relieved to see Steve's obviously feeling a little better :)
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: HK on December 21, 2015, 11:31:40 am
The point Lady Cavendish is that there are people who know how to put together a good year ride. To do the Tommy Godwin it is mainly scaling up as the principles remain the same.

Yes I do agree to ride 75,000 plus that you do need to be able to deal with a fare amount of tedious riding.   But to crank out anything beyond 15,000 miles unless you don't work a fair amount of tedious riding is involved.

I wouldn't say Steve is well - a very extend toilet stop isn't good.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Lady Cavendish on December 21, 2015, 11:41:27 am
I don't really find my general riding tedious, but then I don't ride to count miles just for miles sake, I don't have any of these mileage targets or anything, not my thing- maybe then it would become tedious, or like a chore. I do get what you're saying though.

And yep, I said 'better' not 'well' ;) Hopefully improving at least. I've no idea how he's riding so far with stomach issues  :sick:
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: crowriver on December 21, 2015, 11:52:04 am
You could probably draw some sort of Venn diagram showing how the three main 'constituencies' interested in Steve's ride interacted over time. Those constituencies being his core team, YACF and Strava/Facebook.

In terms of purely financial support, there is also an option to make a one off £1 donation when entering any AUK calendar event via PayPal. So there is potentially quite a large body of silent supporters out there who've made small one-off contributions: I know I'm among them.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: crowriver on December 21, 2015, 11:57:03 am
I now question if its worth continuing to donate to the cause, nothing to do with if the record is broken or not, just from the point of view of feeling that the support given is not valued. After all it can't be too much effort to put out a news letter once a week to help keep Steve's fan club on the edge our seats.

Either you are donating to help Steve in his attempt to break the record, or you feel you've paid for regular updates as a form of entertainment. Arguably you could have both, but without a slightly slicker PR operation this may be tricky for Steve & Co to arrange. Personally I am not a regular direct debit supporter and have no expectations of regular news updates, however I might suggest that those who do have such expectations need to rein them in a bit. Yes, we are in the era of instantaneous updates, immediate gratification, soshul meedja and all that. Maybe though folk ought to cut Steve and his immediate support crew some slack: they presumably have their hands full as it is...
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: mattc on December 21, 2015, 12:00:32 pm
In 34 pages of posts I can only see a single one that could possibly be construed as having a dig at Steve (gleefully quoted by mattC).  It's pretty apparent that everyone here is not only captivated by the challenge but also wants the best for Steve.

"gleefully" ??

What makes you think that? This isn't a debating contest - I dont award myself points for highlighting how awful people sometimes are :(


[And to your 2nd point: no. MOST people are very much "wanting the best for Steve", but there is a very small - yet vocal - nasty minority. I suspect they are motivated like most internet trolls, in that ... oh heck, I've said all this stuff once before  ... )
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: CrazyEnglishTriathlete on December 21, 2015, 12:07:05 pm
In addition to stepping up to one of the upper plinths on the pantheon of the 20th century records attempts, it's perhaps worth remembering that Steve will be recorded by HAM'R as the record holder at close of play 31 December, and will hold his age-group record for at least a year. 

Not bad for a humble bloke from Bedfordshire, who likes to ride his bike.

+1
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Wowbagger on December 21, 2015, 12:08:16 pm
I visit these pages almost every day and try to keep track of what Steve is up to. IIRC I set up a DD a year ago, set to expire this month. I don't expect anything for my money, just the knowledge that the record attempt is still alive.

I don't know what the roles of the various team members are so I have no clue about whether they are doing their jobs properly or not. Alicia, OTOH, must have an awful lot of time on her hands as Kurt spins his way round the hamster wheel: there are only so many hours a day you can spend shopping for pop tarts. She's ideally placed to spend a bit of time on publicity and I'd say that she has used that time well.

If at some future stage Steve decided to try again (says he, assuming that this attempt isn't going to take the record) and he wants to try the camper-van approach, provided I have fully given up work (another 3 years away I think) I wouldn't mind at all being one of a group who take on the duties of driver/cook if a camper van were part of Steve's plans.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: jochta on December 21, 2015, 12:29:58 pm
You could probably draw some sort of Venn diagram showing how the three main 'constituencies' interested in Steve's ride interacted over time. Those constituencies being his core team, YACF and Strava/Facebook.

In terms of purely financial support, there is also an option to make a one off £1 donation when entering any AUK calendar event via PayPal. So there is potentially quite a large body of silent supporters out there who've made small one-off contributions: I know I'm among them.

This is exactly what makes me feel uncomfortable. I'm guessing many AUK members will have made small contributions towards Steve's attempt. They literally have an invested interest in what's going on and there's been little feedback. It also may be contributing to Steve feeling 'obliged' to ride against advice, if that is the case.

Does this optional support continue after 31st December? It does specifically say 2015 in the graphic on the entry form.

PS. It's optional of course but it's always seemed a bit odd to me for the organisation to ask for money for something like this. Individual and corporate sponsorship is a bit different to this IMO.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: mattc on December 21, 2015, 12:34:40 pm
...
Quote
there is also an option to make a one off £1 donation when entering any AUK calendar event via PayPal. So there is potentially quite a large body of silent supporters out there who've made small one-off contributions.
...

PS. It's optional of course but it's always seemed a bit odd to me for the organisation to ask for money for something like this. Individual and corporate sponsorship is a bit different to this IMO.
Not sure I see a problem. Its a  bit like having a Comic Relief bucket at the supermarket tills.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: red marley on December 21, 2015, 12:46:56 pm
Glimpses of how truly huge this challenge is #417: There's a feeling now that Kurt can almost cruise home as he nears the end of the challenge. But to beat the record he still needs to do 3.7 PBPs back to back.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: crowriver on December 21, 2015, 12:49:38 pm
...
Quote
there is also an option to make a one off £1 donation when entering any AUK calendar event via PayPal. So there is potentially quite a large body of silent supporters out there who've made small one-off contributions.
...

PS. It's optional of course but it's always seemed a bit odd to me for the organisation to ask for money for something like this. Individual and corporate sponsorship is a bit different to this IMO.
Not sure I see a problem. Its a  bit like having a Comic Relief bucket at the supermarket tills.

Indeed, and the amount is small: £1 won't even get you to one stop along the road on a bus these days. A bag of crisps, maybe.

If you enter say a dozen AUK calendar events and choose to donate, you've given £12, hardly a fortune. Equivalent to one course of a meal when eating in a modest establishment. You can always choose not to donate, too.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Ian H on December 21, 2015, 12:53:18 pm

... I wouldn't mind at all being one of a group who take on the duties of driver/cook if a camper van were part of Steve's plans.

How much of Alicia's role where you thinking of taking on?
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Wine Mechanic on December 21, 2015, 12:54:45 pm
I now question if its worth continuing to donate to the cause, nothing to do with if the record is broken or not, just from the point of view of feeling that the support given is not valued. After all it can't be too much effort to put out a news letter once a week to help keep Steve's fan club on the edge our seats.

Either you are donating to help Steve in his attempt to break the record, or you feel you've paid for regular updates as a form of entertainment. Arguably you could have both, but without a slightly slicker PR operation this may be tricky for Steve & Co to arrange. Personally I am not a regular direct debit supporter and have no expectations of regular news updates, however I might suggest that those who do have such expectations need to rein them in a bit. Yes, we are in the era of instantaneous updates, immediate gratification, soshul meedja and all that. Maybe though folk ought to cut Steve and his immediate support crew some slack: they presumably have their hands full as it is...

Your right I am principally donating to help Steve break the record and I dont feel by donating that I've paid for regular news updates to entertain me, but  I am genuinely interested in Steve's journey, so how is anyone supposed to gain any knowledge of situation when there is only conjecture  supported by the odd fact banded about.  There used to be updates on Steve's webpage every month or so , since July one post.  This post is about  current thoughts on the record attempt, my view is that communication could be better from the team.




 
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: crowriver on December 21, 2015, 01:02:33 pm
I now question if its worth continuing to donate to the cause, nothing to do with if the record is broken or not, just from the point of view of feeling that the support given is not valued. After all it can't be too much effort to put out a news letter once a week to help keep Steve's fan club on the edge our seats.

Either you are donating to help Steve in his attempt to break the record, or you feel you've paid for regular updates as a form of entertainment. Arguably you could have both, but without a slightly slicker PR operation this may be tricky for Steve & Co to arrange. Personally I am not a regular direct debit supporter and have no expectations of regular news updates, however I might suggest that those who do have such expectations need to rein them in a bit. Yes, we are in the era of instantaneous updates, immediate gratification, soshul meedja and all that. Maybe though folk ought to cut Steve and his immediate support crew some slack: they presumably have their hands full as it is...

Your right I am principally donating to help Steve break the record and I dont feel by donating that I've paid for regular news updates to entertain me, but  I am genuinely interested in Steve's journey, so how is anyone supposed to gain any knowledge of situation when there is only conjecture  supported by the odd fact banded about.  There used to be updates on Steve's webpage every month or so , since July one post.  This post is about  current thoughts on the record attempt, my view is that communication could be better from the team.

Fair enough. The Facebook page seems to have reasonably regular updates. Steve has even been on this forum recently posting comments!
Otherwise Jo is doing a great job of giving us daily updates on Steve's progress, route, any issues, etc. on the "Visualising the OYTT" thread here. That's what I'm following.  ;D
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Wowbagger on December 21, 2015, 01:03:24 pm

... I wouldn't mind at all being one of a group who take on the duties of driver/cook if a camper van were part of Steve's plans.

How much of Alicia's role where you thinking of taking on?

I was being specific.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Martin on December 21, 2015, 01:09:46 pm
I still have the old spreadsheet as my favourites (that wasn't updated after 29th May by the look of it) it shows Steve's average the day before his accident as 193mpd; (of which 9 days were above 212miles) pretty much what it is now. An extra 20 per day from now to break the record is possible but would require a considerable improvement. January will be critical.

Kurt's was 201mpd during that period
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Wowbagger on December 21, 2015, 01:10:07 pm
I would think that a tracker showing within a few minutes exactly where Steve is in the course of a day is pretty good feedback. In March, when he stopped for all that time in Devon, the longer it went on, the more worried I became. Likewise, in recent days the state of Steve's alimentary canal has been broadcast far and wide for our delectation.

OK, this isn't being given a glimpse into the finer points of team Steve's strategy, but if, after more than 11 months, it hasn't sunk in what that is (Steve gets up, rides a huge distance with occasional meal stops, goes to bed and does the same again every day) we haven't got the grips with what his strategy is, well...

That actually calls into question what the point of The Team actually is, apart from the domestic duties back at Steve's flat, assuming that he is still having someone in to do his shopping, cooking and laundry.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Ian H on December 21, 2015, 01:15:38 pm


That actually calls into question what the point of The Team actually is, apart from the domestic duties back at Steve's flat, assuming that he is still having someone in to do his shopping, cooking and laundry.

Currently?  Those things, and getting the bikes maintained; keeping up interest on the FB page. Plus advertising for car-assist volunteers.  There's been a good response so far – complying with UMCA regs is a bit of a faff, but they're pretty responsive.
Title: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: HK on December 21, 2015, 01:37:18 pm
Once you have sponsors be they jo public or of the type the Pro teams have or the big amateurs teams, I would say you have a duty to keep the people that are paying for you to ride updated and informed.  It's part of the deal. If you don't want that, then take Kurt's approach and self fund.

And I would say that keeping people informed on a project like this goes beyond FB - lots of people don't do FB.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: postie on December 21, 2015, 05:38:27 pm
That very right hk, i and others from portsmouth area have monthly payments to steves fund plus one off donations made from the audax club Portsmouth chirstmas bash and my racing club. And in months we not had a word from his team. My feeling this is very poor show on there part. I will continue to support steve as he is a long standing friend.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Foghat on December 21, 2015, 06:26:05 pm
To me - speaking as a friend of Steve - I just find this snide and nasty.

Don’t be ridiculous, although that’s your prerogative I suppose.  It’s a reasonable question, given the hitherto resolute adherence to a tortoise strategy that was clearly not going to work once it became obvious (many months ago) that the days aren’t long enough to succeed on the average speeds being achieved.  Especially as through the winter the situation could only get worse.

However, that some of Steve’s friends believe stifling debate about efficacy of strategy is more appropriate than trying harder to convince and help their friend to consider changing the doomed strategy is really rather surprising.  It’s taken this long for any change in strategy to be tried - maybe if the deniers had encouraged the debate instead of the repeated “Steve knows best”, “energy vampires” short-sighted shouting down of the perfectly reasonable discussion, the move to a possible record-rescuing strategy would have been achieved a lot earlier.

If those friends are more concerned with his health, then they probably ought to be persuading him to stop rather than keep banging away at the 30lb-tourer-fully-Carradiced headwind-chewing audax approach when the record is clearly out of reach that way.  At the very least they should have tried, and exhorted others (including those here), to persuade Steve that changing strategy was the only way the record could come......and I'm sure it gives no one any pleasure that it has/had to be this way.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: mattc on December 21, 2015, 06:59:34 pm
To me - speaking as a friend of Steve - I just find this snide and nasty.

Don’t be ridiculous, although that’s your prerogative I suppose.  It’s a reasonable question,
No, it isnt.

It was snide and nasty. (That is what I think and feel. It may be my "prerogative" to be ridiculous, but that is irrelevant here.)

As are all your comments telling Steve's friends what YOU think they should be doing for him.

Your tone is very different from a concerned party looking for constructive discussion. End of.




Now: anyone fancy a friendly positive discussion, free of dick-waving? If so, bring it on :)
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: mattc on December 21, 2015, 07:22:59 pm
I would think that a tracker showing within a few minutes exactly where Steve is in the course of a day is pretty good feedback. In March, when he stopped for all that time in Devon, the longer it went on, the more worried I became. Likewise, in recent days the state of Steve's alimentary canal has been broadcast far and wide for our delectation.

OK, this isn't being given a glimpse into the finer points of team Steve's strategy, but if, after more than 11 months, it hasn't sunk in what that is (Steve gets up, rides a huge distance with occasional meal stops, goes to bed and does the same again every day) we haven't got the grips with what his strategy is, well...


 :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: PAC on December 21, 2015, 07:26:09 pm
Saucer of milk anyone? :-*
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Exit Stage Left on December 21, 2015, 07:36:23 pm
My current thoughts about the record attempt are much the same as they were a year ago.

Quote

I remember Mc Nasty telling us that he once met the bloke who got the highest mileage in a year. He mentioned that he had to re-learn how to walk afterwards and that he caught night trains into the wind so he could ride all day with a tailwind.
I'd check the facts before taking it as true, but Mc Nasty does know a thing or two about long distance cycling.

It's certainly worth finding out that sort of detail, otherwise you're working against an impossible target; chasing Godwin's record in a different ethical climate.

We know he had support from an elite group of Raleigh professional riders, and that place-to-place records were run at times when suitable winds were likely, and still are.

https://yacf.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=72564.475
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Arry-R on December 21, 2015, 07:47:15 pm
Thanks for a re-read of all that, most interesting
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Exit Stage Left on December 21, 2015, 07:54:21 pm
The main difference in my thoughts is the knowledge that it was Sturmey Archer, a subsidiary of Raleigh that ran a team of record-breakers.

(http://cdn.ipernity.com/138/39/51/27923951.022591dd.560.jpg?r2)
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Glover Fan on December 21, 2015, 09:25:01 pm
Hi all.

I've not posted for quite a while now - I've taken a year (or so) out of cycling and audaxing to focus on family life BLAH BLAH.

Anyway, I've been prompted to this thread as I have been in training for next year's London Marathon and I have noticed through Strava some of the challenges Steve is currently coming up against. Unfortunately, the weather has generally been awful for the past month or so, with wind and rain typically in order.

I'm not privy to the current health problems, but it sounds digestion related which must be pretty grim and I guess would have occurred if this was still the first attempt.

I don't know Steve, but he is clearly in another league to many of us mere mortals, but I followed every single day that went by on here - not necessarily posting, but I was pretty captivated by the attempt.

It has to be said though as soon as I heard of the awful accident earlier in the year, I knew that suddenly this challenge changed in it's emphasis from a heavily weighted physical challenge to a mental one. One has to commend and admire Steve for the way in which he battled on with one legs etc etc, but I cannot imagine the mental turmoil that the lad must be going through - i'm sure he would never admit it, but the pressure of having donors, sponsors, taking a year out of work and the huge amount of latent expectation both offline and online must be absolutely horrendous to deal with and my worry is that whilst everyone is querying his physical condition, which admittedly right now doesn't sound great - some counsel over his mental state must be sought.

Whenever I have faced a challenge and for me anything over 200km's in a day was a challenge - it was always overcoming the mental challenges that were the toughest - the physical ones can be pushed through.

I hope this isn't construed as sticking my oar in where it is not wanted - but as I said I was only prompted here again out of worry.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Sergeant Pluck on December 21, 2015, 10:39:11 pm
On contributions, entitlements to updates, being “bad” for being - in my case - somewhat worried about how Steve is, and being a damned spoilsport for wondering if a different strategy might be worth considering by way of achieving his goal.

I don’t feel entitled, as such, to special updates of any kind as a result of making a small contribution. As Wowbagger has said, it is possible to get a fair understanding of Steve’s progress via Jo’s superb infographics, this forum, and social media. However, as I mentioned earlier, I would like to be more reassured that by chipping in I am not in any small way adding to pressure on Steve to persist with any particular approach - such as riding when unwell, for example, although I do of course appreciate that Steve has vast experience of pushing himself to the limits and that experience must be respected.

That is the essence of my minor gripes in relation to updates or information provision: that it almost always lacks the personal touch that would provide that reassurance.

On the other hand I fully appreciate that Steve may be someone that chooses not to divulge such information, even in vague terms, and that is a right that remains his regardless of any financial support from whatever source.

Anyway, I see he has had a couple of good days with tactical headwind avoidance, so onwards and upwards.

Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Jaded on December 21, 2015, 10:54:26 pm
I don’t feel entitled, as such, to special updates of any kind as a result of making a small contribution.

I feel the same, and I think the quote from Peter Hammill's "Energy Vampires"

"I've got every one of your records, man,
Doesn't that mean I own you?"

is apposite here.

There are trolls on this thread, there are supporters and there are concerned people. The shame is if the concerned people get swayed by the trolls to expect beyond what is reasonable and what is fair.

I do not contribute to Steve's challenge so that I am party to the contents of his bowel.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: PAC on December 21, 2015, 11:00:01 pm
The last couple of posts ^ are spot on :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: CrazyEnglishTriathlete on December 23, 2015, 01:09:29 pm
Just a thought on the stomach troubles - it could easily be a bug that he picked up from some roadside muck.  I struggled round the 2nd day of the Brimstone last year because of a campylobacter infection picked up from a muddy lane on the first day (confirmed by a GP who was also on the same event and was laid low in exactly the same way). 

And a thought on December mileage.  Tommy's mileage wasn't brilliant in December either.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: LEE on December 23, 2015, 01:39:00 pm
Just a thought on the stomach troubles - it could easily be a bug that he picked up from some roadside muck.  I struggled round the 2nd day of the Brimstone last year because of a campylobacter infection picked up from a muddy lane on the first day (confirmed by a GP who was also on the same event and was laid low in exactly the same way). 

Can someone confirm that Steve is using covered Water Bottles?

If he isn't then he will be sipping small amounts of cow-shit all winter (actually any time you get run-off from fields or cycle through the mud at a farm gate). 
I've posted on the subject of covered water bottles before.  I started using them after several winters of stomach issues (with me it was the feeling I had swallowed a bowling ball for a few days).

So much of the Godwin attempt is down to the luck of not getting ill (or hit by a motorbike) and covered water bottles are a simple way to "increase your luck".
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: LittleWheelsandBig on December 23, 2015, 01:43:03 pm
I think he is using standard Nuun bidons as he is sponsored by them.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Kim on December 23, 2015, 01:46:07 pm
Can someone confirm that Steve is using covered Water Bottles?

Doesn't look like it, from the photos I've seen.  He is at least using proper mudguards.


Quote
If he isn't then he will be sipping small amounts of cow-shit all winter (actually any time you get run-off from fields or cycle through the mud at a farm gate).

Given where he's riding, some of it will be pig shit.   :hand:
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: HK on December 23, 2015, 01:49:30 pm

[quote author=CrazyEnglishTriathlete link=topic=90295.msg1962699#msg1962699 date=14508

And a thought on December mileage.  Tommy's mileage wasn't brilliant in December either.
[/quote]

Yes, but Tommy was significantly faster then Steve and as Citizenfishy has explained had a very organised, well thought out and supported summer months.

Steve's plan seems to be one of doing the average daily mileage of each and every day. I would think that using this approach you can only go into miles debt so far before the debt exceeds your ability to pay back.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Martin on December 23, 2015, 02:18:45 pm
Kurt's average was 201 for the early part of the year; it's taken him until now to get it to 208. Getting Steve's current average up by nearly 20mpd before August is going to take a new strategy IMHO (and it will need to be a bit higher once Kurt has set the new record)
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Chris S on December 23, 2015, 06:49:34 pm
Meanwhile, weather forecast looks full-on for Christmas Day and Boxing day, so while we're opening presents, eating Christmas Dinner, getting royally pissed in front of The Queen, and (in full hangover mode) take on the masses at the Boxing Day sales, Steve'll be out there slogging away in the wind and rain.

I hope his support team have some form of Christmas planned for Steve.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Wobbly on December 23, 2015, 07:20:40 pm
If Steve heads west there'll be a festive welcome for him here
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Wowbagger on December 23, 2015, 07:51:21 pm
I shan't be watching the queen!
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: LittleWheelsandBig on December 23, 2015, 08:08:01 pm
Apparently Steve doesn't need this experienced helper at all between Christmas and New Year. Good to see that Hoppo has Steve's best interests at heart.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Tail End Charlie on December 23, 2015, 08:53:30 pm
Nice bunch of sour grapes there. I'm not one who thinks Steve's approach shouldn't be questioned, but that's not the way to do it.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: LMT on December 23, 2015, 08:59:10 pm
'tis a shame though. It'll be a longer than usual chalk over the next few days with the rough weather. Would be nice to catch a tail wind and then get a lift back to MK.

Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: LittleWheelsandBig on December 23, 2015, 08:59:15 pm
Believe what you want TEC. I've already supported Steve for 3 x 24hr TTs.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Arry-R on December 23, 2015, 09:16:09 pm
I am sorry that the offer of help wasn't accepted.  It cannot be easy obtaining meals on the move on Christmas day as often it is Fine dining for groups of friends etc.  However perhaps the TEAM have it all in hand and thanks in advance to you all if you have.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Jaded on December 23, 2015, 09:47:34 pm
Apparently Steve doesn't need this experienced helper at all between Christmas and New Year. Good to see that Hoppo has Steve's best interests at heart.

Are you hurt for Steve's campaign, or your ego?
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Pale Rider on December 23, 2015, 09:54:58 pm
Apparently Steve doesn't need this experienced helper at all between Christmas and New Year. Good to see that Hoppo has Steve's best interests at heart.

Don't take it to heart, wheelers, I'm sure it's nothing personal.

Looking at it kindly, the organisation of the attempt is now ad hoc.

Or one could describe it as shambolic.

Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: LMT on December 23, 2015, 10:20:20 pm
Apparently Steve doesn't need this experienced helper at all between Christmas and New Year. Good to see that Hoppo has Steve's best interests at heart.

Don't take it to heart, wheelers, I'm sure it's nothing personal.

Looking at it kindly, the organisation of the attempt is now ad hoc.

Or one could describe it as shambolic.

Do you have direct knowledge of Steve's team/organisation to describe it as shambolic?
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: LittleWheelsandBig on December 23, 2015, 10:24:55 pm
Jaded, nothing would make me happier than Steve reaching his goal but that isn't going to happen unless his campaign dramatically changes, which obviously won't occur now. At the current rate, in about a week's time, Steve will be too far behind to catch up by August.

It was becoming obvious before Steve got knocked off that he couldn't do enough daily miles at that slow pace. He then had the opportunity to heal properly, get his speed back (he's done 449 miles in 24hrs twice) and restart at a decent pace. Instead, he mucked about riding one-legged and never recovered properly. All of Steve's effort and determination, along with huge amounts of goodwill and support, has been pissed away.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Jaded on December 23, 2015, 10:33:05 pm
Well, I still support him because he has done something that almost nobody has done before. I'm not upset that my money or my hosting has not resulted in a record, or may not result in the new record. I never had 100% expectations of that. That would have been silly.

I'm upset that a drunk person can cause so much grief, but more so that so many can take such glee in calling Steve a failure.

Shame on them.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: danridesbikes on December 23, 2015, 10:36:56 pm
considering how active Hoppo is on Facebook with his own self promotion, you'd think he'd mention Steve once in a while
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: toontra on December 23, 2015, 10:38:58 pm
Well, I still support him because he has done something that almost nobody has done be
I'm upset that a drunk person can cause so much grief, but more so that so many can take such glee in calling Steve a failure.

Shame on them.

Not this again!  Please, for the sake of sanity, if you are going to make accusations like that then quote posts where someone - anyone - has taken glee in calling Steve a failure.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: danridesbikes on December 23, 2015, 10:39:18 pm
Quote
but more so that so many can take such glee in calling Steve a failure.

don't think anyone has have they, theres been nothing but support, and lately concern for Steve, 99.9% of it positive
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Wowbagger on December 23, 2015, 10:48:19 pm
No-one has called Steve a failure. He's an absolutely incredible cyclist, an inspiration to us all. It would take about 20 of us, on average, to match the miles he has cycled this year. I have seen pretty much nothing but support for him on these pages, and out of that, concern for his well-being.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Jaded on December 23, 2015, 10:52:05 pm
Shambolic. Pissed away. Steve doesn't need this experienced helper.

That's just the last page.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: LittleWheelsandBig on December 23, 2015, 10:56:32 pm
None of that gleefully calls Steve a failure and all of it is true.

It is also true that Steve is failing at taking the record. Steve has the talent to take the record, if he and his team maximised his distance, but that isn't happening. Sad but true.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Martin on December 23, 2015, 10:58:54 pm
None of that gleefully calls Steve a failure and all of it is true.

It is also true that Steve is failing at taking the record. Steve has the talent to take the record, if he and his team maximised his distance, but that isn't happening. Sad but true.

+1; didn't Steve do a 280 mile day this year? the potential was there.

I can't help wondering how genuine (as in ridden on a bike without drafting verified distances etc) the Tommy record pace actually is, given the Herculean effort Kurt has been required to make to keep above it on nominally faster roads across the pond...
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Von Broad on December 23, 2015, 11:23:26 pm
I can't help wondering how genuine (as in ridden on a bike without drafting verified distances etc) the Tommy record pace actually is, given the Herculean effort Kurt has been required to make to keep above it on nominally faster roads across the pond...

I've been thinking the same thing myself of late.

Anybody who goes to those lengths to break a record like this, and does so within the parameters set down before them, deserves a good crack at the fortune whip IMO. If Kurt manages to break Godwin's record, all those kind of doubts about the credibility of his predecessor will be history, because the new focal point will be this new guy from Arkansas. Any doubts about what he did, and how he did it....then, well ..... it's all out there. Go see for yourself.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: LittleWheelsandBig on December 23, 2015, 11:24:20 pm
Don't doubt Tommy's distances. They are real. Tommy was plenty fast enough to cover those miles on his bike but there was a lot of support required to achieve them.

Don't confuse 'real' with purely unpaced/ non-drafting. There has never been anything stopping riders from drafting in this record.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Von Broad on December 23, 2015, 11:39:21 pm
Sure....I don't doubt the credibility of the man [quite the opposite in fact], but for me, the crazy magnitude of the challenge has been thrown into sharp focus by how our two riders have been fairing in their respective attempts.
Steve has been struggling, losing miles in the process which are so hard to claw back, and Kurt, despite his tenacious riding, is hardly going to blow this thing out of the water is he? - incredible as his achievement is.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: LMT on December 23, 2015, 11:42:18 pm
Not quite sure what is going on at the moment looking at Steve's tracking page but it looks to be a low milage day.

I'd recommend a power meter, Steve could incorporate a power tap hub into a wheel build. That way he can maximise speed whilst still keeping his effort hovering around the endurance zone.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: PAC on December 23, 2015, 11:59:01 pm
I think the actual mileage will be significantly higher, but we'll see.

Looking at the graph, Steve was fine until about day 100 of the consecutive attempt...Kurt had similar drops and recovered, so it's quite possible Steve will do the same, but if he's not able to then at least he tried which is a huge amount more than any of us has ever done.   I'm glass half full on this and think Steve needs encouragement rather than negativity, so on a positive note....GOOOO Steve :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Von Broad on December 24, 2015, 12:23:15 am
I think the actual mileage will be significantly higher, but we'll see.

Looking at the graph, Steve was fine until about day 100 of the consecutive attempt...Kurt had similar drops and recovered, so it's quite possible Steve will do the same, but if he's not able to then at least he tried which is a huge amount more than any of us has ever done.   I'm glass half full on this and think Steve needs encouragement rather than negativity, so on a positive note....GOOOO Steve :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

Well.. I see he's just past 100,000kms since Jan 1st.
That's 100,000kms more than me some years!
I couldn't get my head round this whole thing on Jan 1st.
Not sure I still can!
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Kim on December 24, 2015, 12:29:35 am
Personally, I reckon Steve should abandon the restarted attempt on the 31st, having done a spectacular job and beaten several records on the original attempt *with a broken ankle*.  Then he can take some time to recover and have a good hard think about strategy before having another go at it at a later date.  I'm sure most of us would continue to support him...

Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Peter on December 24, 2015, 01:07:47 am
I only dip into this thread, so I don't know if anyone has mentioned that when he set the record, Tommy Godwin, as well as being an established long distance cyclist with some pretty fast rides to his credit, was 27.  I say again, "was 27".  I think this is hugely important.  Of course it also emphasises what astonishing efforts Kurt and Steve have made.  But Tommy Godwin was 27.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Exit Stage Left on December 24, 2015, 01:27:11 am
I only dip into this thread, so I don't know if anyone has mentioned that when he set the record, Tommy Godwin, as well as being an established long distance cyclist with some pretty fast rides to his credit, was 27.  I say again, "was 27".  I think this is hugely important.  Of course it also emphasises what astonishing efforts Kurt and Steve have made.  But Tommy Godwin was 27.

If a Brit wanted to be a professional cyclist in the 1930s, they had to do distance records. Time Trialling was semi-underground, and was resolutely amateur. Road Racing didn't exist. Any interaction between cycling, the media and manufacturers was via distance records, hence a talented young rider spending a year of his life on this. Even then, Raleigh only got involved when Godwin was well under way.

It's possible that a future rider will pick up big money sponsorship, especially as the groundwork has been done, much as the 'round the world' now has more currency.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: TimC on December 24, 2015, 03:03:53 am
Personally, I reckon Steve should abandon the restarted attempt on the 31st, having done a spectacular job and beaten several records on the original attempt *with a broken ankle*.  Then he can take some time to recover and have a good hard think about strategy before having another go at it at a later date.  I'm sure most of us would continue to support him...



I totally agree. If a dispassionate look at things shows that the probability of breaking the record on the concurrent attempt is now out of realistic reach, I see no point in continuing it. Whatever happens, Steve will finish 2015 with an incredible total, which will stand among the top 5 ever achieved (I believe). To plug on for another 8 months without a realistic chance of taking the top spot seems perverse, at best. Far better to take a year off, regroup and decide if a different strategy would produce the desired result and, if it looks unlikely, let this effort stand on its merits and move on to something else. I doubt anyone here would regard that as any kind of failure.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Frank9755 on December 24, 2015, 07:40:09 am
Absolutely.  Steve has put an enormous amount into this and achieved much over 2015.  But it would be far better to recognise now that the restart can't work rather than ride himself into the ground to the detriment of his physical, and mental, health.  To encourage him to stick with it at this stage would be foolhardy and cruel.  The best message that those who are in contact with him could give him is that he has achieved a lot but the record is not realistic so it would be ok to stop.  And, if he does stop, he has not let anyone down.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Legs on December 24, 2015, 08:01:07 am
Personally, I reckon Steve should abandon the restarted attempt on the 31st, having done a spectacular job...
I totally agree. If a dispassionate look at things shows that the probability of breaking the record on the concurrent attempt is now out of realistic reach, I see no point in continuing it. Whatever happens, Steve will finish 2015 with an incredible total...
100% in agreement with Kim and TimC.  Sadly, what I suspect will happen is that Steve will plug on ("because that's what he does, heh?") and that no-one on the so-called team will brave the conversation with him that ought to be had.  It'd be marginally more likely to be taken on board coming from someone on the inside, but my two-penn'orth to Steve is that he's done amazingly, but there's no sense compromising long-term health in pursuit of the 08/15-08/16 attempt.
I'm a little bit shocked that Phartiphukborlz's and LWaB's offers of help have not been even acknowledged (let alone accepted), and about Fidgetbuzz's revelations about team communications.  I've got some personal opinions about the (dys)function of the team that are probably best not expressed on a public forum.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: LittleWheelsandBig on December 24, 2015, 08:22:26 am
A small correction. There was a reply from the team to my offer, basically "Thanks but no thanks"
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Jaded on December 24, 2015, 08:32:54 am
When did you get this?
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: LittleWheelsandBig on December 24, 2015, 08:36:06 am
Monday, after I'd complied with their requests and after I'd chased them up for a reply.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Legs on December 24, 2015, 08:38:12 am
A small correction. There was a reply from the team to my offer, basically "Thanks but no thanks"
Okay, but the essence remains.  What you were offering would have been fantastic - a real tribute to your generosity - and the numbers are suggesting that Steve could use all the help he can get at the moment.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Jaded on December 24, 2015, 08:41:38 am
Monday, after I'd complied with their requests and after I'd chased them up for a reply.
It's Thursday today.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Legs on December 24, 2015, 08:52:37 am
Monday, after I'd complied with their requests and after I'd chased them up for a reply.
It's Thursday today.
Your point being?
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: red marley on December 24, 2015, 08:53:56 am
As Kurt brings home the miles at Flatwood Park, one of the photos posted on Facebook shows in part how he is able to ride 220 mile days after nearly a year of stamina-sapping days in the saddle (Kurt is in the middle in red):

(https://scontent-lhr3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xaf1/t31.08/10556978_10207981655119223_5627592149598929576_o.jpg)

Cycling conditions could not be any better for efficient use of effort. Not in any way a dig at Kurt or a suggestion that knocking out 220 is easy, as this seems like an entirely sensible strategy for him to take the record.
 
I know there have been plenty of calls here and elsewhere for Steve to find an equivalent environment and adopt a similar strategy. But for me at least, part of the attraction of Steve's attempt is the approach it represents. Riding it audax style is something I can identify with. It represents a way of cycling I admire and is in contrast to a more 'professional' approach that Kurt's world represents. For me it's not a question of which is 'better' or more effective, but which has more emotional resonance.

This isn't a call for business as usual as Steve slips down from the Godwin line, but a recognition that there is more to this than simply riding the most miles in a year.

Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Jaded on December 24, 2015, 08:57:13 am
Monday, after I'd complied with their requests and after I'd chased them up for a reply.
It's Thursday today.
Your point being?
You'll have to think a bit harder.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Legs on December 24, 2015, 09:02:29 am
Monday, after I'd complied with their requests and after I'd chased them up for a reply.
It's Thursday today.
Your point being?
You'll have to think a bit harder.
No, I still can't see what point you're trying to make.  Happy Thursday, though.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Jaded on December 24, 2015, 09:13:04 am
Monday, after I'd complied with their requests and after I'd chased them up for a reply.
It's Thursday today.
Your point being?
You'll have to think a bit harder.
No, I still can't see what point you're trying to make.  Happy Thursday, though.
I had hoped you would but it's really more for LWAB to have a think about it.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Legs on December 24, 2015, 09:22:20 am
Unless your point was along the lines of...

'they said "no" on Monday but now it's three days later (Thursday!) and the attempt is still spiralling downward so the "Team" might (just might) have re-evaluated and considered how good an offer they were turning down...

then no, I'm at a loss.  But considering your IMHO-twattish attitude to LWaB upthread, that seems unlikely.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: LittleWheelsandBig on December 24, 2015, 09:38:39 am
Interpreting semi-cryptic stuff on the internet gives a lot of opportunity to misinterpret the actual meaning. Just say what you really mean using plain language.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Arry-R on December 24, 2015, 09:41:51 am
Let us all hope that at the end of December and with over 100,000k Steve will make the sensible decision  (Whatever that is considered the best option).  He is some 1775 mls below the Godwin Line.  If he were to average 215 mls a  day from now on  (not possible being winter ) it would take some 6.5 months to claw back to the Godwin Line.  Let us all hope that the benefits of the better diet will kick in very soon.  Also let us hope that Steve can have more vehicle transfers to his advantage.  I would like to contribute more money to his efforts and it would be nice to hear from team member early in 2016 of adjusted strategy to enable him to maximise his miles to the maximum advantage.
Steve do  have a successful last week to the end of December and the completion of the first attempt and rightly take your place of fame amongst the greats (and hopefully onwards and upwards! )
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Greenbank on December 24, 2015, 09:42:32 am
My guess is Jaded thought that:-

A small correction. There was a reply from the team to my offer, basically "Thanks but no thanks"

was a correction to what LWaB had said before (i.e. he'd made it sound like they never even responded), instead of it being LWaB correcting Legs' assumption:-

...
I'm a little bit shocked that Phartiphukborlz's and LWaB's offers of help have not been even acknowledged (let alone accepted), ...

If you misread it that way then it may look like LWaB was sitting on that information on purpose to make Steve's team look worse and only correcting it now.

[EDIT] Looking back LWaB said that he'd received no response on the 14th, but obviously the response came after those postings, and he's corrected that as soon as someone made a reference to there being no response.

Storm, teacup.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: LMT on December 24, 2015, 09:48:21 am
Let us all hope that at the end of December and with over 100,000k Steve will make the sensible decision  (Whatever that is considered the best option).  He is some 1775 mls below the Godwin Line.  If he were to average 215 mls a  day from now on  (not possible being winter ) it would take some 6.5 months to claw back to the Godwin Line.  Let us all hope that the benefits of the better diet will kick in very soon.  Also let us hope that Steve can have more vehicle transfers to his advantage.  I would like to contribute more money to his efforts and it would be nice to hear from team member early in 2016 of adjusted strategy to enable him to maximise his miles to the maximum advantage.
Steve do  have a successful last week to the end of December and the completion of the first attempt and rightly take your place of fame amongst the greats (and hopefully onwards and upwards! )

Well said.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Legs on December 24, 2015, 10:01:59 am
Ah - thanks for the detective-work, Greenbank!  Yep, I probably shouldn't have assumed that the 'sound of crickets' was ongoing... (but, come to think of it, if LWaB made his offer on or before 11/12 and the thanks-but-no-thanks wasn't given back until 21/12, that's pretty shabby)
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Arry-R on December 24, 2015, 10:07:05 am


Well said.
[/quote]


Many thanks
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Greenbank on December 24, 2015, 10:14:49 am
I'd like to remain positive about this attempt but it's not looking great given the great unknown of the health problems, but I can see why he's sticking to it for now.

A while ago (early/mid November) my thoughts were still good based on looking at jo's graph and unselecting the "Common start times" checkbox. You'll then see:-

In other words, he would have matched Tommy mile for mile from the restart in August to December 31st and then just has to beat Tommy (and soon to be Kurt) between January and August, which he looked like he was on track to do (if that graph picked up and the big miles appeared in the warmer lighter spring/summer).

However, the recent health problems have seriously dented this as (at the current rate) he's going to finish the year ~2500 miles down on Tommy's pace and although he was 2500 miles ahead of Tommy's pace after 3 months of his first attempt he'd need to be:-
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Jaded on December 24, 2015, 10:23:06 am
Ah - thanks for the detective-work, Greenbank!  Yep, I probably shouldn't have assumed that the 'sound of crickets' was ongoing... (but, come to think of it, if LWaB made his offer on or before 11/12 and the thanks-but-no-thanks wasn't given back until 21/12, that's pretty shabby)

More assumptions! LWAB did say "after I had complied with their requests" but didn't say how long that took. Certainly not as simple as crickets. Plus, given the vitriol that the whole "No reply" thing caused, perhaps something a little stronger than "A small correction" might have ben in order. I've highlighted the most judgemental bit of your post  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Von Broad on December 24, 2015, 10:23:49 am
This isn't a call for business as usual as Steve slips down from the Godwin line, but a recognition that there is more to this than simply riding the most miles in a year.

And yet, might it be fair to say that Godwin's approach was more in line with Kurt's that it is with Steve's, using speed intervals and support on the road to keep the mileage high?
There seems to be an almost romantic assumption on the forum that Steve's approach is somehow more genuine, more authentic, somehow much closer in spirit to how the record was originally set in 1939, but apart from them both being English and riding on English roads, does the similarity really extend any further?
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: red marley on December 24, 2015, 10:34:39 am
I wasn't making the comparison with Tommy's approach as such, more the connection with 'one of us'. Where 'us' is the stoic approach with a dash of self-sufficiency that characterises much of Audax. I realise this won't be the same for everyone, but it is why Steve's endeavour appeals to me.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Exit Stage Left on December 24, 2015, 10:41:14 am

I know there have been plenty of calls here and elsewhere for Steve to find an equivalent environment and adopt a similar strategy. But for me at least, part of the attraction of Steve's attempt is the approach it represents. Riding it audax style is something I can identify with. It represents a way of cycling I admire and is in contrast to a more 'professional' approach that Kurt's world represents. For me it's not a question of which is 'better' or more effective, but which has more emotional resonance.

This isn't a call for business as usual as Steve slips down from the Godwin line, but a recognition that there is more to this than simply riding the most miles in a year.

Riding it Audax style is how it started at the beginning of the year. Steve had a timetable to stay with hosts stretching months ahead. That fits in with the Audax ethos of declaring your routes ahead of doing them. That lasted for a while, but clearly wasn't going to work, mainly due to the data upload problem. The attempt then evolved into 'Groundhog Day', after the 'Marsh Gibbon' interlude, which was curtailed by the moped incident. Meanwhile Kurt kept on putting in the 200 mile+ days.

I'm all for emotional resonance. Perhaps we could have this expressed graphically. There's nothing 'professional' about Kurt's approach. We see End to Enders supported by friends and family in a motorhome on a regular basis, and it pales into insignificance compared with a serious amateur attempt on the 24 Hours.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Von Broad on December 24, 2015, 10:45:41 am
I wasn't making the comparison with Tommy's approach as such, more the connection with 'one of us'. Where 'us' is the stoic approach with a dash of self-sufficiency that characterises much of Audax. I realise this won't be the same for everyone, but it is why Steve's endeavour appeals to me.
Sure, I understand that, I'm in the same camp myself really.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Exit Stage Left on December 24, 2015, 11:04:34 am
There's a camp that sees Zoe Williams' article in the Guardian on Feb 6th as the high point of the ride. The one that had Kurt 'surrounded' by a semi-pro team, but Steve on his own apart from an army of helpers. That was the 'correct' conclusion to draw, and the following 10 months are just a detail.
http://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2015/feb/06/bike-record-steve-abraham-longest-distance-cycle-year
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Byronius Maximus on December 24, 2015, 11:59:34 am
Ah - thanks for the detective-work, Greenbank!  Yep, I probably shouldn't have assumed that the 'sound of crickets' was ongoing... (but, come to think of it, if LWaB made his offer on or before 11/12 and the thanks-but-no-thanks wasn't given back until 21/12, that's pretty shabby)

More assumptions! LWAB did say "after I had complied with their requests" but didn't say how long that took. Certainly not as simple as crickets. Plus, given the vitriol that the whole "No reply" thing caused, perhaps something a little stronger than "A small correction" might have ben in order. I've highlighted the most judgemental bit of your post 
Are you seriously confused as to why numerous people couldn't understand what your post meant, or are you just trying to take some kind of misplaced high ground here? Write something deliberately cryptic on an Internet forum and people *will not* understand what you mean.

I'm a bit of lurker on this thread and it seems to me that there have been good constructive comments on both sides (yes it is possible to have negative thoughts about how the attempt is going without having animosity towards Steve or the team, and I say this as someone who considers Steve a friend), but petty forum one-upmanship like this just derails what is a useful conversation to have.

Anyway, back to lurking.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Jaded on December 24, 2015, 12:04:15 pm
No, I'm not confused.  :)
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Polar Bear on December 24, 2015, 12:29:37 pm
Personally I think that people should stop saying that Steve should or must stop for his own good.   Unless you are inside his head and his body, unless you have up-to-date intimate detail of his thoughts and feelings, then it is only your place to speculate or offer opinion, just like sports pundits or political commentators.

After all, we all know best, don't we?

Please, stop bickering, stop petty point-scoring:  let Steve decide.  Be supportive or destructive if you wish but we all value our autonomy, our ability to make decisions for ourselves. 

There is no sense in my mind that there is any failure in Steve's attempt.   He's still riding nearly a year after starting in spite of an accident.   He's clocked up 100,000kms and counting.   It's an attempt, not a guaranteed shoe in.   
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: PAC on December 24, 2015, 12:37:17 pm
Well said Polar Bear :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: simonp on December 24, 2015, 12:48:41 pm
Lovely day today. Maybe time for a bike ride.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Jaded on December 24, 2015, 12:50:44 pm
Thank you, PB for that considered post.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Frank9755 on December 24, 2015, 01:01:32 pm
Personally I think that people should stop saying that Steve should or must stop for his own good.   Unless you are inside his head and his body, unless you have up-to-date intimate detail of his thoughts and feelings, then it is only your place to speculate or offer opinion, just like sports pundits or political commentators.

After all, we all know best, don't we?

Please, stop bickering, stop petty point-scoring:  let Steve decide.  Be supportive or destructive if you wish but we all value our autonomy, our ability to make decisions for ourselves. 

There is no sense in my mind that there is any failure in Steve's attempt.   He's still riding nearly a year after starting in spite of an accident.   He's clocked up 100,000kms and counting.   It's an attempt, not a guaranteed shoe in.

Of course it's Steve's decision as to what he does, and as I and many others have said, he has achieved an amazing amount over the year.

But it is also the decision of those who encourage him, with words, with deeds and with financial sponsorship, to decide whether - based on all the information available - they consider it wise to encourage him to carry on further.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Polar Bear on December 24, 2015, 01:04:27 pm
In my humble opinion, it is not about encouraging him in what he is doing, it is about supporting him in how he chooses to do it.   
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: zigzag on December 24, 2015, 01:06:56 pm
It's an attempt, not a guaranteed shoe in.

if i was riding this (ha ha), there would be no word "attempt" in my vocabulary and would ask this section in the forum to be renamed. the word is extremely disempowering especially if used before the challenge even starts. nothing wrong with using this lukewarm word after the challenge if it doesn't pan out as expected.
when i embark on a challenge myself - i'm playing full out, in my mind it's a done deal before it starts. there's no point in attempting or trying - go for it, just do it!! :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: LMT on December 24, 2015, 01:10:00 pm
It's an attempt, not a guaranteed shoe in.

if i was riding this (ha ha), there would be no word "attempt" in my vocabulary and would ask this section in the forum to be renamed. the word is extremely disempowering especially if used before the challenge even starts. nothing wrong with using this lukewarm word after the challenge if it doesn't pan out as expected.
when i embark on a challenge myself - i'm playing full out, in my mind it's a done deal before it starts. there's no point in attempting or trying - go for it, just do it!! :thumbsup:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZXsQAXx_ao0

 ;D

Take away the cheese and it ain't a bad vid imo.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: zigzag on December 24, 2015, 01:17:15 pm
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZXsQAXx_ao0

 ;D

Take away the cheese though, and it ain't a bad vid imo.

:D yeah, good and funny, could be a part of the riders morning routine, with "210 miles" blinking every split second :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Greenbank on December 24, 2015, 01:52:06 pm
It's an attempt, not a guaranteed shoe in.

if i was riding this (ha ha), there would be no word "attempt" in my vocabulary and would ask this section in the forum to be renamed. the word is extremely disempowering especially if used before the challenge even starts. nothing wrong with using this lukewarm word after the challenge if it doesn't pan out as expected.
when i embark on a challenge myself - i'm playing full out, in my mind it's a done deal before it starts. there's no point in attempting or trying - go for it, just do it!! :thumbsup:

Sure, but if you wanted to keep that up you wouldn't be reading (first hand) any Internet forums discussing your progress. You'd either have someone to cherry pick the positive comments from them, or you'd leave them well alone. No idea why anyone could expect a forum (no matter how friendly or supportive) to be 100% positive.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Von Broad on December 24, 2015, 01:53:33 pm
:D yeah, good and funny

So is this (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_6zb3bvwBRM)...especially the first few minutes. Briliant!
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Martin on December 24, 2015, 01:56:46 pm

Of course it's Steve's decision as to what he does, and as I and many others have said, he has achieved an amazing amount over the year.

But it is also the decision of those who encourage him, with words, with deeds and with financial sponsorship, to decide whether - based on all the information available - they consider it wise to encourage him to carry on further.

not only that but it's the right of Steve's sponsors to question the wisdom of continuing the attempt once it becomes apparent that it is not going to be a serious World Record Attempt they are financing.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Pale Rider on December 24, 2015, 02:04:12 pm

Of course it's Steve's decision as to what he does, and as I and many others have said, he has achieved an amazing amount over the year.

But it is also the decision of those who encourage him, with words, with deeds and with financial sponsorship, to decide whether - based on all the information available - they consider it wise to encourage him to carry on further.

not only that but it's the right of Steve's sponsors to question the wisdom of continuing the attempt once it becomes apparent that it is not going to be a serious World Record Attempt they are financing.

It is.

And I'm sure Steve is savvy enough to assess the various comments and give them their appropriate weight.

Which might be none in some cases, as it should be because it's Steve's decision.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Wowbagger on December 24, 2015, 02:17:02 pm
It's an attempt, not a guaranteed shoe in.

if i was riding this (ha ha), there would be no word "attempt" in my vocabulary and would ask this section in the forum to be renamed. the word is extremely disempowering especially if used before the challenge even starts. nothing wrong with using this lukewarm word after the challenge if it doesn't pan out as expected.
when i embark on a challenge myself - i'm playing full out, in my mind it's a done deal before it starts. there's no point in attempting or trying - go for it, just do it!! :thumbsup:

That's an interesting comment. About a year ago I remarked, somewhere on this bit of the board, that Kurt was declaring in advance that he would "spend 2015 breaking TG's record". I've put it in quotes, but that may be a paraphrase. Whatever the correct wording, it left no doubt that that would be the outcome. I thought that "making and attempt" would be right, and anything else would be presumptive. I noticed that his celebratory photo of him breaking the 70,000 mile barrier was posted in the morning before he achieved it as well!

Someone, I forget who, suggested it was how Americans see their attempts as done and dusted and leaving no room for any doubt as to the outcome, compared to a much more reserved BRITISH attitude. I have always tried to be realistic in the likely outcomes of competitions and challenges I have been involved in, taking into consideration a number of possible outcomes, of which the desired one was the aim, but it was always possible for it to be overtaken by events.

Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Kim on December 24, 2015, 02:23:39 pm
Personally I think that people should stop saying that Steve should or must stop for his own good.   Unless you are inside his head and his body, unless you have up-to-date intimate detail of his thoughts and feelings, then it is only your place to speculate or offer opinion, just like sports pundits or political commentators.

I wasn't suggesting it out of concern for Steve's health - I trust he has that in hand - but simply at a strategy level.  It's clear that he has no hope of beating Kurt on the original attempt, which means that if he takes the record, it will be in August.  On the basis that some time off the bike can only do him good, and there's room for improvement strategy wise, I'm suggesting that he might as well take the opportunity to improve his chances and make it n months later.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Von Broad on December 24, 2015, 02:50:27 pm
Someone, I forget who, suggested it was how Americans see their attempts, as done and dusted and leaving no room for any doubt as to the outcome, compared to a much more reserved BRITISH attitude. I have always tried to be realistic in the likely outcomes of competitions and challenges I have been involved in, taking into consideration a number of possible outcomes, of which the desired one was the aim, but it was always possible for it to be overtaken by events.

Blimey, what a complex subject this is. There's always a balance.
Positivity [yes we can] must surely be a good thing, but it can also be delusional sometimes.
As can negativity [no we can't] - on the one hand damaging and self-defeating but conversely sometimes bringing a sense of realistic balance into a situation gone wrong.

Thing about Kurt's attitude is this: it's far from hot air [to state the obvious], any positivity and self-belief has been heavily underpinned by a large dose of self-knowledge of his own capabilities and limitations. For example, he doesn't like riding in the dark, so he's doesn't do it [or as little as he can get away with].
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: mattc on December 24, 2015, 02:54:17 pm
 sometimes in life we dont have all the facts, but have a decision forced on us - so we have to make it.

But when you dont know all the facts about SOMEONE ELSE'S situation, it is very often wise to just shut the .... up.

[EDIT: cross-post with Von-Broad, with which this has no connection!]
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Polar Bear on December 24, 2015, 03:05:47 pm
Personally I think that people should stop saying that Steve should or must stop for his own good.   Unless you are inside his head and his body, unless you have up-to-date intimate detail of his thoughts and feelings, then it is only your place to speculate or offer opinion, just like sports pundits or political commentators.

I wasn't suggesting it out of concern for Steve's health - I trust he has that in hand - but simply at a strategy level.  It's clear that he has no hope of beating Kurt on the original attempt, which means that if he takes the record, it will be in August.  On the basis that some time off the bike can only do him good, and there's room for improvement strategy wise, I'm suggesting that he might as well take the opportunity to improve his chances and make it n months later.

Well thought through Kim.   i would suggest that Steve knew,  we all knew, Kurt knew, that given Steve's accident, if all else went to plan then Kurt would take the record first.   Of course, and not wishing to wish ill on anybody, kurt hasn't crossed the line just yet.  I sincerely hope that he does and that Steve does at some point in August.

I don't know whether time off the bike would do Steve any good at all.   We might privately consider it to be the best for him but only Steve and those close to him know what drives him and have any idea how he is both physically and mentally.   

I only hope that Steve does what is best for Steve and that his sponsors and supporters continue to back him enabling him to try for the record.     
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Wowbagger on December 24, 2015, 03:08:05 pm
We have a pretty good idea that all is not right physically. Steve, when fit, is worth >200 miles a day. Every day. He would certainly not, by choice, have found himself well over 1700 miles behind schedule when, a couple of months ago, he appeared to be going so well.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Kim on December 24, 2015, 03:11:44 pm
I don't know whether time off the bike would do Steve any good at all.

It would give him time to address strategy properly.  There aren't currently enough hours in the day for that.

But fair point about the mental side.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Kim on December 24, 2015, 03:19:27 pm
But remember Steve has been here before, on his AUK record year.

I'd suggest that that's the part of his strategy that could be improved.

This isn't an audax record, and he doesn't need to ride under audax conditions.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Polar Bear on December 24, 2015, 03:22:15 pm
I take your point Kim re strategy.   I would be completely surprised though if there is no ongoing management of strategy, tactics, his health and his equipment on an ongoing basis by his 'team' with Steve's continuous input.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: mattc on December 24, 2015, 03:27:03 pm
But remember Steve has been here before, on his AUK record year.

I'd suggest that that's the part of his strategy that could be improved.

This isn't an audax record, and he doesn't need to ride under audax conditions.
Jeez - what the heck has that got to do with my post?

Is there some sort of Pavlovian condition on this thread:

Must Post Something Negative About Steve's Strategy - Preferably Something Mentioned Eleventy Times Before.

??

I was hoping to pack my ranting about negaitivty away for Xmas, but it's like fecking Whack-a-Mole on here ... :(
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Kim on December 24, 2015, 03:40:04 pm
But remember Steve has been here before, on his AUK record year.

I'd suggest that that's the part of his strategy that could be improved.

This isn't an audax record, and he doesn't need to ride under audax conditions.
Jeez - what the heck has that got to do with my post?

You're saying he's been here before.  I'm saying he doesn't have to be here at all, but as far as any of us can tell that's how he chose to approach the record, and isn't set up for a different approach.


Quote
Is there some sort of Pavlovian condition on this thread:

Must Post Something Negative About Steve's Strategy - Preferably Something Mentioned Eleventy Times Before.


Well, in the absence of actual information, what else is this thread going to be?  And, as far as I can tell, it's what sports fans do when they talk about sport.

I must confess to not having read all 40 pages.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Polar Bear on December 24, 2015, 03:41:07 pm
Very sensible NOT to read all 40 pages Kim.   :D
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Polar Bear on December 24, 2015, 03:50:19 pm
It's fair to say that the vast majority of understanding of the demands that this type of endeavour place upon body and mind is purely theoretical.   Except of course, the experts in this field just now are in fact Steve and Kurt.   
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Basil on December 24, 2015, 04:03:08 pm
Ah, Whack-a-mole.  Isn't that what some people confuse with mushy peas?
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Greenbank on December 24, 2015, 04:16:13 pm
On the basis that some time off the bike can only do him good, and there's room for improvement strategy wise, I'm suggesting that he might as well take the opportunity to improve his chances and make it n months later.

Each day off the bike (now) means having to do more than a mile a day extra every day up until he finishes the second attempt in August 2016. A mile extra a day doesn't sound much but at this scale it's huge.

Anything more than 7 days off the bike (now) and, IMHO, this extra mileage burden becomes too much and he may as well start again completely which means the prospect of finishing in December 2016 (or even January 2017) which comes with the extra mental burden not least the physical challenge or going at this for nigh on 2 years.

It's a very tough decision to make and it all depends how quickly he thinks he will recover and be back to doing 210+ miles day in day out and how he can use what he has discovered in the last year to maximise his chances of success.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: mattc on December 24, 2015, 04:27:06 pm

Well, in the absence of actual information, what else is this thread going to be?  And, as far as I can tell, it's what sports fans do when they talk about sport.
I say, let's not lose sight of the fundamentals here:

We are several levels up the evolutionary ladder from mere sports fans    :smug:
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Wowbagger on December 24, 2015, 04:32:47 pm
Ah, Whack-a-mole.  Isn't that what some people confuse with mushy peas?

That was Mandelson - and mentioning him Godwinises the thread. Oh, hang on...
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: mattc on December 24, 2015, 04:36:58 pm
Ah, Whack-a-mole.  Isn't that what some people confuse with mushy peas?
no - that would be whackamol'ay.

Completely different.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Kim on December 24, 2015, 04:44:07 pm
On the basis that some time off the bike can only do him good, and there's room for improvement strategy wise, I'm suggesting that he might as well take the opportunity to improve his chances and make it n months later.

Each day off the bike (now) means having to do more than a mile a day extra every day up until he finishes the second attempt in August 2016. A mile extra a day doesn't sound much but at this scale it's huge.

I was suggesting that he abandons the second attempt, completes the first, takes some time out and starts a third attempt later.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Martin on December 24, 2015, 04:45:43 pm
My opinion is that Steve will very soon have no chance of beating Kurt's record by August. He would have (again IMO) more chance if he squirrelled away the donations for a future attempt, I don't think any of his sponsors would disagree with that strategy if he chose to  follow it

Edit x post with Kim
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: hellymedic on December 24, 2015, 05:36:35 pm
989 posts and counting...
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Wobbly on December 24, 2015, 05:39:50 pm
990 now :)
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Karla on December 24, 2015, 06:06:19 pm
I don't know whether time off the bike would do Steve any good at all.

It would give him time to address strategy properly.  There aren't currently enough hours in the day for that.

But fair point about the mental side.
There is a POV that you need a few days recovery off the bike to think straight about strategy & other Big Stuff.

But remember Steve has been here before, on his AUK record year. Less miles but possibly less sleep too due to a FULL-TIME JOB! So he MIGHT know himself better than we do. We don't know.

That's the reason why people are focussing mostly on strategy: we know that Steve is athletically capable of this record.  It's also a reason why many people are saddened to see it slipping out of his grasp. 
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Ben T on December 24, 2015, 06:09:17 pm
Personally I think that people should stop saying that Steve should or must stop for his own good.   Unless you are inside his head and his body, unless you have up-to-date intimate detail of his thoughts and feelings, then it is only your place to speculate or offer opinion, just like sports pundits or political commentators.

I wasn't suggesting it out of concern for Steve's health - I trust he has that in hand - but simply at a strategy level.  It's clear that he has no hope of beating Kurt on the original attempt, which means that if he takes the record, it will be in August.  On the basis that some time off the bike can only do him good, and there's room for improvement strategy wise, I'm suggesting that he might as well take the opportunity to improve his chances and make it n months later.

One advantage he does have, should he choose to make use of it, is that Kurt is (a) unlikely to beat Godwin's record by much, and more importantly, (b) is unlikely to try to defend it - and, come to that, neither (seriously) is anyone else. Might be worth considering - biding time and and all that.
If he regroups and piles resources into a future attempt, he basically steals the "10-day lag" advantage Kurt originally had back for himself.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: mattc on December 24, 2015, 06:20:42 pm
I don't know whether time off the bike would do Steve any good at all.

It would give him time to address strategy properly.  There aren't currently enough hours in the day for that.

But fair point about the mental side.
There is a POV that you need a few days recovery off the bike to think straight about strategy & other Big Stuff.

But remember Steve has been here before, on his AUK record year. Less miles but possibly less sleep too due to a FULL-TIME JOB! So he MIGHT know himself better than we do. We don't know.

EDIT: what I meant here is that Steve may be very experienced in thinking strategy thru during days-n-days of 14-15 hours of low-intensity riding. He may, right now, be confident that he has considered all the main options, and has no need for extra hours in the day to address strategy.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: LittleWheelsandBig on December 24, 2015, 06:35:25 pm
Steve started the year riding slowly and hasn't really got much faster (consistently) ever since. Taking a break, recovering properly and training for speed before a restart in Spring would get him back to cruising at 19 mph instead of the 15-16 mph that he stabilised on when he was fit. He can't do big daily miles at 15 mph because he runs out of hours, partially because he spends too many hours off the bike each day.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Kim on December 24, 2015, 06:41:30 pm
EDIT: what I meant here is that Steve may be very experienced in thinking strategy thru during days-n-days of 14-15 hours of low-intensity riding. He may, right now, be confident that he has considered all the main options, and has no need for extra hours in the day to address strategy.

I don't doubt that.  I'd query whether his idea of what's a reasonable option might differ from what's actually a reasonable option, given that it's all going through the filter of his mysterious team.


Anyway, we're nearly at #1000.  Let's talk about gibbons.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: mattc on December 24, 2015, 06:48:47 pm
Gibbons? Tell me about this strange yet intriguing topic! I must have missed previous discussions °


° may contain a white lie
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Fidgetbuzz on December 24, 2015, 09:49:50 pm
When I report to Idai on the s/o income for Dec and send the balance to steve's account - i shall ask him to take the time to read this thread . there is much on here not particularly relevant -- but i begin to pick up several strands of concern .. is Steve over committed to attempt 2- when it might be better to take a real break - and possibly get 100% raring to go for a 3rd and final attempt.  Why are the team so uncommunicative when supporters and donors are desperate for more info. Is there really any team advice and support or is Steve on his own.  I have also had queries about the finance position - in particular -- should attempt 2 be stopped at some time if it became obvious that the record was out of reach - would there be a surplus to go to charity
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Arry-R on December 25, 2015, 12:01:55 am
Happy Christmas all
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: notlobgp14 on December 25, 2015, 09:00:44 am
Regarding surplus funds.  I wouldn't consider the Record Attempt over until Steve were to be back at full fitness and discharged from Out Patients.  As far as I'm concerned he can spend my portion on proper food to rejuvenate himself.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Jeff in Wales on December 25, 2015, 09:27:24 am
http://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2015/dec/25/steve-abraham-cycling-year-in-the-saddle-for-record-chaser
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: jochta on December 25, 2015, 10:17:46 am
Post #1000. I doubt I will ever start another thread on here with that many replies!!
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: flashpeddler on December 25, 2015, 02:13:07 pm
I think Steve is simply amazing and a fantastic endurance athlete.  I believe Steve would have broken the record if it hadn't been for a selfish little scrote in Somerset.  Is it possible to recover from a bad break AND cycle 200+ miles a day for 20 months??  Surely, there's a point where the body says "enough".  Guess no one knows because no one's ever attempted it.  I fervently hope Steve doesn't risk any longer-term health issues by feeling pressurized to deliver for his supporters and sponsors.  I hold Steve in the highest regard and nothing will change that.  Ride safe one and all.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: MacB on December 25, 2015, 06:57:41 pm
A fascinating read and a truly remarkable endeavour, having followed this from January I have been surprised by the emotional 'rollercoaster' it has taken me on. From something I considered mildly interesting, through OMG when Steve was hit by the moped, to my latest serious concerns for his mental/physical wellbeing. It's been a heck of a ride and that's from a comfy chair behind a screen.

In the beginning I was fully behind Steve, quite anti Kurt and, beyond an understanding that it was a task way beyond me, totally clueless. In a sense I bought into the Steve hype, the romanticism of his approach and the individualism that underpinned it. I now think that I was just listening to heart over mind, the numbers aren't hard to run and his speed averages always nagged at me. Whereas Kurt has grown on me, partly the underdog aspect as he seemed so ill prepared. But he has adapted rapidly, overcome hurdles and I suspect his style of approach will be the template others look to in the future.

For me this was always primarily a mental challenge and I believed that was where Steve held the edge. I now worry that the very mental strength I considered his ace up the sleeve could now cause him harm.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Polar Bear on December 25, 2015, 09:41:11 pm
Quote from: Day 140...

From FaceBook

Here is a Christmas message and progress update from Steve Abraham - to all of you who've supported him through the year:

"As you are all probably aware, I have had a heavy loss of miles over the last 6 weeks or so.

That is down to a number of reasons.

Adaption to my new diet was very tough, but has all gone pretty much as expected.

My diet plan was modified so that I could take a few short cuts and also to account for my cycling demands. In theory I should not have been exercising for my first 2 weeks of adaption, which is why I lost so much weight.

 My weight has been stable since my first week of adaption. My team and I took on the new diet for several reasons.

*Safeguarding my health so that I can keep going.

*Improving my performance (though that was not the main reason, it is a likelihood, even if only through speeding up my recovery, which I believe it could be doing).

*Practical reasons.

I was eating on the move during late summer and early autumn to save time. However, it wasn't working all that well because of the sheer volume of food I eat. It still takes time to prepare food to eat on the move and this was taking longer as the weather grew colder.

I could forsee spending as much time not moving as I did last winter. Once my new diet is in full flight I think I may be able to spend less time stopped in winter than I did last year, though this remains to be seen.

My new diet is well under way but not quite up to speed yet. I initially needed 4 big feeds a day and now only need 3.

Next step is to space out those feeds and I should also not need to eat as much for each feed, which will save even more time.

While my adaption was going on, there was also a lot of bad weather. Bad enough that trucks and busses were literally blown off the road!

My team and I anticipated the losses of Adaption for my new diet to be between 700-1000 miles. It was more like 1040, so considering the bad weather I would say we were pretty much spot on.

The next problem was my getting my stomach trouble, which hit the miles very hard. I never felt especially bad, except for one weekend, it just took it out of me as well as caused practical delays from toilet stops.

Tests were done at a private clinic and things seem to be on the up. Some results from my tests at the clinic are indicating that the new diet is improving my health and is working. I have felt much better in the last two days - and feel stronger.

I have been preparing myself for the tough winter ahead since September and now that my new diet is beginning to work and my tummy trouble seems to be going away, feel ready to take on winter with gusto.
 
With very nearly a year done I feel as if I have had a good warm up and ready to go. Thanks to my team for all of your hard work - and I include those who are no longer in the team.

I couldn't have done what I have without your help and support and I will never forget all that you have put in to help me even get started as well as keeping me going.

Also many thanks to the many people who have helped along the way by helping me get started as well as volunteering to help.

I also thank everyone who enjoys watching my progress and those who come out to cheer me along on the road.

Merry Christmas and Happy New Year to all - and hope to see you on the road sometime next year.

Steve Abraham"


Wonderful post.   I hope some of you naysayers will read this and begin to understand.   Somehow I doubt it.

Roll on Steve.  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: LMT on December 25, 2015, 10:01:18 pm
Understand what exactly? Steve makes many points.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: LittleWheelsandBig on December 25, 2015, 10:50:43 pm
Steve is currently about 1800 miles behind Godwin's record. With 225 days left in his second attempt, Steve needs to exceed the 206 mile average daily distance by about 8 miles to match Tommy. Pretty much 214 miles need to be ridden every single day from now on.

Kurt looks likely to add about 1200 miles to Tommy's record. To match Kurt, Steve would need about 13 miles daily beyond Tommy's average. That is perilously close to averaging 220 miles every single day till the second attempt finishes.

Steve was barely able to consistently exceed 220 miles days at the height of Summer. He is currently dropping 1-2 Godwins a week and Winter hasn't started yet (flowers are blooming!). Assuming no more than 10 hours (total) a day off the bike to sleep, shower and shit (and fill water bottles, dress, eat, etc), Steve needs to average 15.7 mph (25.3 km/h) just to reach 220 miles, let alone exceed it.

Check the numbers, they were done on the back of a fag packet. By my reckoning, Steve needs to be riding noticeably faster through the whole day AND spending more time on the bike than he has been averaging. While both should improve, I can't see them changing enough to let Steve take the record.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: LMT on December 25, 2015, 11:06:09 pm
Steve is currently about 1800 miles behind Godwin's record. With 225 days left in his second attempt, Steve needs to exceed the 206 mile average daily distance by about 8 miles to match Tommy. Pretty much 214 miles need to be ridden every single day from now on.

Kurt looks likely to add about 1200 miles to Tommy's record. To match Kurt, Steve would need about 13 miles daily beyond Tommy's average. That is perilously close to averaging 220 miles every single day till the second attempt finishes.

Steve was barely able to consistently exceed 220 miles days at the height of Summer. He is currently dropping 1-2 Godwins a week and winter hasn't started yet (flowers are blooming!). Assuming no more than 10 hours (total) a day off the bike to sleep, shower and shit (and fill water bottles, dress, eat, etc), Steve needs to average 15.7 mph (25.3 km/h) just to reach 220 miles, let alone exceed it.

Check the numbers, they were done on the back of a fag packet. By my reckoning, Steve needs to be riding noticeably faster through the whole day AND spending more time on the bike than he has been averaging. While both should improve, I can't see them changing enough to let Steve take the record.

For arguments sake, let's say you're team chief and there was another crack at the record in the near future. What would you want, what would you change and how would you do it.

I don't dispute what you say, just curious as to what you would do and the changes you would make given that you say that Steve has the ability (which I don't doubt).
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: LittleWheelsandBig on December 26, 2015, 12:17:36 am
Stop the second attempt at the end of the year, Steve to rest up and then train for speed through the rest of Winter at least. Once the numbers look good enough (relaxed flatland average around 19-20 mph), start a third attempt, probably in Spring. Use the down time to check out possible food and equipment changes and arrange the new support set up.

Alicia is the biggest advantage Kurt has had. She has kept him focused, studied the weather, sorted accommodation and so on. Every time Kurt has weakened mentally, she has adjusted the situation, arranged riding companions and brought him back on track. She has been (mostly) able to keep him riding, despite multiple efforts to destroy bikes.

Given that a fit Steve is almost as fast as Kurt, Steve needs to ride a little more time each day than Kurt does. Assume 7 hours sleep a night (can't afford any sleep deprivation) plus another 2 hours to shower, shit, dress and a sit down meal or 2. Allow up to another hour for traffic lights, pee stops, adding or stripping off clothes on the road, medical, etc. that leaves 14 hours each day that Steve can actually ride. If Steve had somebody to hand him up water and food without stopping or to hand him a rain jacket, warm clothing or a replacement bike, along with routes with minimal traffic lights/ stop signs and good use of tailwinds, that would allow him to achieve up to 250 miles in a day without losing sleep that kills distance the following day. RAAM riders brush their teeth while riding, not while they're stopped. Everything should be aimed at minimising the number of minutes that Steve is riding at less than 15 mph and ideally minimising time spent below 18 mph.

He should be eating solid food on the bike more and using things like Winter & Summer Training Fuels (developed for Hoppo's first RAAM) or other such drinks that suit his stomach to reduce the time spent stationary. Nuun is good hydration but not enough by itself.

Plugging into a headwind all day is counterproductive. No more than an hour at a time into the wind. If Steve wants to ride laps around a fixed base (Milton Keynes?), pay somebody to look after the home base - clean, prepare and hand up food and bottles, wash and periodically disinfect clothing. Home help on Steve's team (Lesley) has been wonderful but she has plenty of other demands on her time and that can't be ideal for Lesley or Steve. The bike maintenance aspect has mostly worked too. Currently Steve spends a lot of time stopped in Milton Keynes. How much of that is doing stuff that somebody else can do while he is on the bike?

Otherwise you are looking at a motorhome approach like Kurt or at least a motorised approach, to chase the combination of tailwinds and fast flat roads. If so, you want 1 or 2 people available every couple of hours whenever Steve is awake. That is a lot to ask of volunteers. Driving Steve upwind should occur EVERY time there is a consistent wind but daylight hours shouldn't be wasted in a vehicle. That pretty much means driving across the country in the evening while Steve eats/ sleeps, otherwise Steve runs out of England before the next day's ride finishes.

In contrast to Alicia and Kurt, Steve's team has discouraged anybody from riding with him. Steve is hard as nails mentally but riding with others not only helps instantaneous speed but maintains the rider's focus and enthusiasm. It also makes it easier to find out about little niggles (e,g, medical or equipment) and take steps to fix them early. That works best with traffic-free/ traffic-light laps of a flat circuit with a fast surface.

Steve's wheels, tyres and aero position are already pretty good. There aren't many gains to be made there. A lighter bike would help in the hills but the idea is avoid them completely anyway. There isn't much aero advantage from a different bike frame at less than 20 mph.

I think Steve carries too much stuff on the bike all the time, mostly because he doesn't count on anybody's support all day. If Steve has access to everything he could possibly need every 2 hours or less (just call), he doesn't need to carry it with him. That is a significant difference from his current approach.

Steve needs to do interviews only while he is riding, either by phone or with somebody on a bicycle or motorcycle beside him.

The team needs to be small but able to replace people during the attempt. A year is a long time for anybody to commit to supporting Steve and circumstances change. At least one person on the team should talk with Steve each day and should look for what he isn't saying, not just what he does say.

Steve's performance needs to be closely monitored and appropriate adjustments made without delay, otherwise deficits grow quickly. There should be daily or at least weekly updates on what is happening.

Just some thoughts late at night. There are a lot of possibilities to optimise this rough outline but basically it is an extension of how HK and I supported Steve through 3 x 24hr TTs, modified by HK's experience of fitting high annual mileage targets around life and work, which leads to a 'minimise wasted time' approach.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Kim on December 26, 2015, 12:21:46 am
I agree with all that, but am looking forward to being proved wrong by Steve and his team.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Jacamo on December 26, 2015, 06:53:50 am
Check the numbers, they were done on the back of a fag packet. By my reckoning, Steve needs to be riding noticeably faster through the whole day AND spending more time on the bike than he has been averaging. While both should improve, I can't see them changing enough to let Steve take the record.

That depends on what record he is actually chasing at the moment... Besting Kurt is virtually impossible at this point, being first to 100k miles is not. I can think of no other sane reason for Steve to continue past Jan 1st.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: andrew531 on December 26, 2015, 07:47:53 am
Who would ratify the 100k mile record?
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Frank9755 on December 26, 2015, 08:33:07 am
^^^^ That is a good summary, LWAB. I agree with it all apart from potential aero gains. 

Aero does matter at Steve's speeds and his position, his bars and his head, are extremely high. He is leaving miles on the table by not getting more aero. Of course it's a trade-off between what is comfortable and what is fast, but, with the right stretching programme, improvements can be accommodated, and they can be made gradually, and backed off if need be.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Ivo on December 26, 2015, 09:05:10 am
^^^^ That is a good summary, LWAB. I agree with it all apart from potential aero gains. 

Aero does matter a Steve's speeds and his position, his bars and his head, are extremely high. He is leaving miles on the table by not getting more aero. Of course it's a trade-off between what is comfortable and what is fast, but, with the right stretching programme, improvements can be accommodated, and they can be made gradually, and backed off if need be.

Frank, it's not only stretching. When the years progress your body gets damaged, either through work or through sports. Don't forget that Steve didn't have an office job. Doing manual labour or labour where a lot of lifting is involved will inevitably damage your back or your shoulders. This will impair your ability to sit low on your bike. If you still do it, you're bound to get injuries. In this regard, Kurt has a major advantage, having done office work for most of the decades before his attempt.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Frank9755 on December 26, 2015, 09:32:44 am
Do you know that is the case?  I've never discussed with Steve why his position is so high and he may well have an old injury.  Even so, I'd be surprised if he couldn't improve on it with the right advice and adaptation programme.  In my experience, physios always go on about how bad it is for your back to sit at a computer all day. 

Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Ivo on December 26, 2015, 09:38:26 am
Do you know that is the case?  I've never discussed with Steve why his position is so high and he may well have an old injury.  Even so, I'd be surprised if he couldn't improve on it with the right advice and adaptation programme.  In my experience, physios always go on about how bad it is for your back to sit at a computer all day.

I don't know about Steve but I know my limitations regarding position due to 20 years of non computer work. Now I work with a computer during 2 years and I've had no new issues. I feel that my body is suffering less damaged due to the computer work as due to physical work. Even a good level physio (of one of the national speedskating teams) could offer not much help for my shoulder problem, about half the work force of my old work had shoulder issues.
I know that at my old work I never had to take a day off due to a sporting issue but several weeks in total due to work induced injuries.
Since I know that warehouse work usually involves a lot of reaching and lifting there should be some level of damage to Steve's body due to this. How big this level is I don't know.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Polar Bear on December 26, 2015, 09:49:26 am
Understand what exactly? Steve makes many points.

Exactly.   Steve makes many good points.

Understand then that there is proactive work going on in the background, that there is a plan.   Steve has strategically changed his diet to help with his shot at the record to increase his moving time over winter and the mileage 'shortfall' was expected, planned in, and therefore nothing for them to get overly exercised about.

Seems to me like Steve and the Team have it all in hand.   

As for what he should do about his bike or his riding position: I am sure that Steve and the team have that in hand too.   I recall that Steve spent a good deal of time getting the bike setup spot on for him before he set out on this quest. 

I'm sure that many will disagree of course...   
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: SoreTween on December 26, 2015, 09:54:45 am
I agree with Kim.

The part of LWABs post I would most like to see Steve adopt is company on the road. Were he to accept help from an experienced group of riders to knock out 250 every Saturday for example he could focus on matching Kurt's average the rest of the week.

What is the best flatwood park equivalent anywhere in the UK? 11km loop, among trees, very good traffic free surface and 4m climb per lap.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Ivo on December 26, 2015, 09:58:04 am
As for what he should do about his bike or his riding position: I am sure that Steve and the team have that in hand too.   I recall that Steve spent a good deal of time getting the bike setup spot on for him before he set out on this quest. 

I'm sure that many will disagree of course...   

The point is that the ideal position for a year is different from the ideal position for a 24 which again is different as the ideal position for the track pursuit.
Many years ago when I was still doing silly things like 24 hour speedskating on a track I met Marnix ten Kortenaar during one of these 24 hour races. He advised me to sit deeper. I replied to him that this would be good for a 5k race but not for a 24 hour race. He nearly fell out of his skates but agreed that the ideal position would be different for each distance.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Frank9755 on December 26, 2015, 10:04:04 am
True; and the ideal position a year ago will be different from what it will be now, after having ridden 60,000 miles and got a year older!
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Polar Bear on December 26, 2015, 10:06:38 am
And what evidence do we have that Steve's riding position is not changing at all?
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: LittleWheelsandBig on December 26, 2015, 10:06:38 am
As I said, a rough outline and very much subject to improvements. Tweaking Steve's position for aero advantage may fit in there.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: rafletcher on December 26, 2015, 10:08:24 am
A thoughtful summary by LWaB.  Personally I see another advantage Kurt has - when riding with a tailwind, he's no so often at risk of running out of land in his chosen direction. As our prevailing winds are south westerly, Steve (when riding form MK) regularly has to turn at Cromer. Not ideal, but a limitation of UK geography.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Whitedown Man on December 26, 2015, 10:08:51 am
What is the best flatwood park equivalent anywhere in the UK? 11km loop, among trees, very good traffic free surface and 4m climb per lap.

Richmond Park?
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: LittleWheelsandBig on December 26, 2015, 10:13:30 am
Too hilly
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Karla on December 26, 2015, 10:19:19 am
ISTM that another advantage Kurt has is being able to put a few thousand miles of latitude between  his summer and winter riding bases.  Steve could do good mileage in the summer but the winter has slowed him down - which isn't a problem that Kurt has.  Renting a winter base in e.g. Spain and spending at least November-Feb down there would be a big gain IMO, and one I'd happily donate to support.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: TimC on December 26, 2015, 10:20:27 am
Understand what exactly? Steve makes many points.

Exactly.   Steve makes many good points.

Understand then that there is proactive work going on in the background, that there is a plan.   Steve has strategically changed his diet to help with his shot at the record to increase his moving time over winter and the mileage 'shortfall' was expected, planned in, and therefore nothing for them to get overly exercised about.

Seems to me like Steve and the Team have it all in hand.   

As for what he should do about his bike or his riding position: I am sure that Steve and the team have that in hand too.   I recall that Steve spent a good deal of time getting the bike setup spot on for him before he set out on this quest. 

I'm sure that many will disagree of course...   

Yes, me for one. If this is an attempt where everything is going to plan and is all in hand, I'd hate to see what you'd regard as one that is falling apart!

Don't get me wrong, Steve has achieved amazing things and I am full of admiration for his determination, guts (no, that's not ironic!), and persistence. But 'planning' to lose 1000 miles when you're already struggling to make the average daily distance required seems, at the least, a little odd. I appreciate that Steve's diet needed attention, for reasons that aren't entirely clear but may be guessed at, but this seems a very expensive way to go about it.

I think many of us commenting here are seeing some parallels with Miles' attempts, in that the daily mileage achieved is short of what's needed but the participant and their closest allies are insisting that everything's ok. It's patently not ok, and those of us who are wishing it was ok and would like to see it returning to being ok aren't seeing how it's going to become ok - and every day that the mileage falls short increases the mileage required and the doubts that it can be achieved.

None of that is a personal comment on Steve; it's observation coupled with some rational extrapolation based on what Steve has demonstrated over the last year that he can achieve. The evidence suggests that a successful conclusion is now unlikely, and that therefore - if the target is the HAM'R (or at least Godwin's 75000 miles) - something else needs to change. If we had seen Steve regularly and consistently put down repeated 220-mile days at some point in the year, and could see a rapid return to that form coming back, then we could remain confident in his ability to pull this back - not to mention wondering in awe what 'could have been', had he not suffered the setbacks he has. But he hasn't done that. Steve's best run has seen him at or around daily Godwins, and therefore, even if the diet and the weather allow him to return to that best demonstrated form, the record is out of reach.

That is why I agree with the sentiments expressed above by Kim and others that this attempt should end on December 31st, a great deal of pride and satisfaction taken in what has been achieved under very trying circumstances, and a return to the drawing-board to plan (if he can face it) a fresh attempt in 2017 taking all this accumulated experience into account.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Wowbagger on December 26, 2015, 10:37:37 am
That's the point. It's not a binary position. It is perfectly possible be very supportive of Steve but also aware that things aren't going according to plan.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Frank9755 on December 26, 2015, 11:32:56 am
What is the best flatwood park equivalent anywhere in the UK? 11km loop, among trees, very good traffic free surface and 4m climb per lap.

Richmond Park?

You're not going to get everything but a good starting point would be to look at time trial courses.
For example, these are all 10-15 mile circuits which are ok from a traffic point of view most of the time:
the A31 near Farnham which is decently quick, mostly dual carriageway and with moderate traffic. 
The A4, between maidenhead and reading
The A4 between reading and thatcham
The Fifield circuit - c.10 miles on reasonably flat, quiet back roads near Windsor

There are plenty of others; I'm most familiar with the London West district courses, but there are more nearer to Steve.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Arry-R on December 26, 2015, 11:54:12 am
Too hilly



And far too busy plus 20mph max I believe
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: marcusjb on December 26, 2015, 12:13:05 pm
What is the best flatwood park equivalent anywhere in the UK? 11km loop, among trees, very good traffic free surface and 4m climb per lap.

Richmond Park?

He can draft cycle_dr1 from April onwards.

Always a bed here if needed. 6 minutes cycle to the star and garter gate.

It is too busy during the day, but once the gates are locked, you can make some fast loops as long as you miss out the Robin Hood gate to/from Kingston gate section as that has a tough little climb in either direction.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: chrisbainbridge on December 26, 2015, 01:44:44 pm
What about the mersey 24 hr circuits?  are they too hilly?   I would have thought there would be lots of people who would be willing to spend one day a week or fortnight or month doing circuits up there either in echelon or whatever to give Steve protection.  To double your energy expenditure because you are u willing to ride in a group seems crazy.


We have seen a lot of posts that only Steve knows how to ride this challenge.

I think this conflates two operate things.

Only Steve and Kurt know what it feels like mentally and physically to do the riding on this scale.

Steve and Kurt are not the only people who noe how a year challenge should be ridden.  Chris Froome knows what it feels like to ride the TdF but he doesn't really know "how" to ride the TdF and it is quite clear that Brailsford, et al are the people who control the day to day and strategic stuff.

I had assumed that the team around Steve were running the show with input from Steve, very much as we have seen Alicia telling kurt where to ride, etc.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: LMT on December 26, 2015, 02:07:25 pm
What about the mersey 24 hr circuits?  are they too hilly?   I would have thought there would be lots of people who would be willing to spend one day a week or fortnight or month doing circuits up there either in echelon or whatever to give Steve protection.  To double your energy expenditure because you are u willing to ride in a group seems crazy.


We have seen a lot of posts that only Steve knows how to ride this challenge.

I think this conflates two operate things.

Only Steve and Kurt know what it feels like mentally and physically to do the riding on this scale.

Steve and Kurt are not the only people who noe how a year challenge should be ridden.  Chris Froome knows what it feels like to ride the TdF but he doesn't really know "how" to ride the TdF and it is quite clear that Brailsford, et al are the people who control the day to day and strategic stuff.

I had assumed that the team around Steve were running the show with input from Steve, very much as we have seen Alicia telling kurt where to ride, etc.

That's a good point, I recall reading about the team behind Jure Robic - RAAM legend who unfortunately has passed away after a RTC.

What stunned me was that the Jure had very little input regarding the strategic elements of how to go about completing a bike race. His job was to ride the bike - end of. Strategy, nutrition, mechanicals, all the other stuff would fall to other members of his team. The only thing he would need to worry about would be riding his bike. He'd be monitored and if he started to fall behind pace his team would make him stop and make the neccessary adjustments.

I don't think the team has had much input from what I've seen, what I have seen is pretty much ''Steve knows best.'' and that is pretty much that.
But sometimes this is counter productive, the day before he had his RTC where he done 60 miles into a head wind taking 7 hours is one such example.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Exit Stage Left on December 26, 2015, 02:53:03 pm
Jure Robič was a serving older in the Slovenian army, it was his job to project the image of his country, and its armed forces, as tough and resilient. It worked, he was one of the most famous Slovenes.

Steve has represented Audax in a similar way. But Audax is lots of different things. It can be a training ground for Jure Robič wannabes, and that's probably the eaisest image to sell. To others it's a community which doesn't value any individual achievement above any other. The supportive power of the collective enables members to reach inside themselves for the exceptional.

As an athletic contest the result is pretty clear, unforeseens aside. On the other side of the coin it's the support that's been given to Steve that's important, and that continuing to support Steve in the face of not achieving the record is more virtuous than if he'd beaten the record. The problem with that view is that it doesn't have an end point. It can accommodate any number of 'restarts'. But each restart will bring in less support, which enhances the virtue of those still contributing I suppose.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: danridesbikes on December 26, 2015, 03:06:04 pm
Quote
But sometimes this is counter productive, the day before he had his RTC where he done 60 miles into a head wind taking 7 hours is one such example.

the whole ride that day was into the wind, 212 miles, starting at 6am and ending around 3am at under 13mph
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: hillbilly on December 26, 2015, 03:16:20 pm
Some airfields have perimeter roads.  These tend to be flat as airfields tend to be built on plains. Those might offer Steve a traffic free loop of reasonable length, if a suitable one can be found and the airfield owner consents.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Polar Bear on December 26, 2015, 03:30:35 pm
...
I don't think the team has had much input from what I've seen, what I have seen is pretty much ''Steve knows best.'' and that is pretty much that.
...

Really?   The basis of your arguments, your pontificating, your armchair expertise comes down to the fact that because you don't see it then it simply doesn't happen?   

Thought-provoking insight.   
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: LittleWheelsandBig on December 26, 2015, 03:37:45 pm
Have you read Fidgetbuzz's contributions?
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Frank9755 on December 26, 2015, 03:43:12 pm
^^^^^^^ the mersey roads circuits would be another good example, that Steve is very familiar with.

Another advantage with using time trialling courses is that virtually all ride faster with a bit of wind from the right direction than with no wind at all. The right direction varies by course. For example, I know that the A31 course I mentioned earlier is fastest with a moderate north or east wind, but slow with a screaming south-westerly. 

Other courses are different, so one can be picked to suit the day. All this information is known to the time trialling community.

^^^good thought, but airfields are often windy!
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Frank9755 on December 26, 2015, 03:45:19 pm
Quote
But sometimes this is counter productive, the day before he had his RTC where he done 60 miles into a head wind taking 7 hours is one such example.

the whole ride that day was into the wind, 212 miles, starting at 6am and ending around 3am at under 13mph

In strategic terms it was Charge of the Light Brigade stuff
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Jurek on December 26, 2015, 03:51:29 pm
Some airfields have perimeter roads.  These tend to be flat as airfields tend to be built on plains. Those might offer Steve a traffic free loop of reasonable length, if a suitable one can be found and the airfield owner consents.
Good call.
The Science Museum owns Wroughton Airfield, just to the south of Swindon.
It has a perimeter road a little proud of 3 miles.
It isn't pancake flat, but it isn't far off it.
Nothing much (other than Swindon Model Aircraft Club) takes off or lands there these days - the runways aren't in particularly good condition, and there are few other facilities which would allow take-off and landing.
I can't help but wonder whether given the right 'scientific angle / record-breaking' approach, that their PR machine would welcome having a such a long-standing record broken on their site......
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Polar Bear on December 26, 2015, 04:02:11 pm
Have you read Fidgetbuzz's contributions?

I have.  He makes some very good and well thought through points - he's not just bouncing up and down on the sofa screaming at the computer.   He even suggests that the team should consider stuff posted here and sift out the good stuff, note the good stuff, not all the chaff in here, then run it past Steve.   Exactly the way to manage the challenge.   There is no reason to think that the team are not doing that anyway even though we don't know this.   

I have managed multi-million pound projects running over a number of years.   You start with a plan, you keep fully abreast of the risks and issues, then you keep a close eye on these as the project progresses.   As new risks and issues appear you take them on board and continue to plan and manage.   Just because we cannot see Steve and his team doing this doesn't mean that it is not happening.   In fact, clearly it is as they decided to go for the dietary change and they clearly, form the facebook post, worked out the risks and issues with that.   

I don't see how they can sate the appetites of all and sundry without a full time PR role.   Perhaps that is a thought to be put to the team and to Steve? 
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: LMT on December 26, 2015, 04:16:48 pm
Have you read Fidgetbuzz's contributions?

I have.  He makes some very good and well thought through points - he's not just bouncing up and down on the sofa screaming at the computer.   He even suggests that the team should consider stuff posted here and sift out the good stuff, note the good stuff, not all the chaff in here, then run it past Steve.   Exactly the way to manage the challenge.   There is no reason to think that the team are not doing that anyway even though we don't know this.   

I have managed multi-million pound projects running over a number of years.   You start with a plan, you keep fully abreast of the risks and issues, then you keep a close eye on these as the project progresses.   As new risks and issues appear you take them on board and continue to plan and manage.   Just because we cannot see Steve and his team doing this doesn't mean that it is not happening.   In fact, clearly it is as they decided to go for the dietary change and they clearly, form the facebook post, worked out the risks and issues with that.   

I don't see how they can sate the appetites of all and sundry without a full time PR role.   Perhaps that is a thought to be put to the team and to Steve?

Oh dear...I'll remember the above if this attempt should fail.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Polar Bear on December 26, 2015, 04:29:08 pm
Oh dear.   How sad.

Why would I expect anything less from you?   
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: LMT on December 26, 2015, 04:34:40 pm
Apologies I forget, you've managed multi-million pound projects and I'm just someone who jumps up and down on the sofa screaming at the computer. ::-)

Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: LittleWheelsandBig on December 26, 2015, 04:52:55 pm
Look at Steve's website. It has 2 PR people listed. How is Steve's PR going?
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Polar Bear on December 26, 2015, 04:57:11 pm
Apologies I forget, you've managed multi-million pound projects and I'm just someone who jumps up and down on the sofa screaming at the computer. ::-)

What a truly bizarre set of posts.   

Look at Steve's website. It has 2 PR people listed. How is Steve's PR going?

Indeed but how much time do they have to do PR and what is the current PR policy?   Clearly people want more information but that takes time and effort.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: LittleWheelsandBig on December 26, 2015, 05:25:25 pm
The first attempt was pretty much at a critical point when he got knocked off. He was up on his schedule but behind the daily average required to match Tommy. Steve's plan called for further increasing his daily distance but Steve couldn't ride any more hours in the day and his average speed was well below what he had expected to do since the beginning of the year.

Even after breaking an ankle, Steve was confident that he could recover the deficit. Time has shown that he'll fall well over 10,000 miles short on the first attempt. Continuing on with the first attempt simply ground Steve into the dirt and it compromised the second attempt.

His second attempt has been characterised by fairly low average speeds (except in ideal conditions) and a lack of consistency. I believe this is a result of what occurred between the crash and the restart, combined with unfocused team strategy and tactics through most of the year. Steve has gone beyond the point where he can match Tommy, let alone Kurt. The numbers required simply don't add up.

Steve is immensely determined but he doesn't always know best. It appears that the remaining team members may have the same problem.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Jaded on December 26, 2015, 05:36:03 pm
It's Christmas and I'm sure Steve asked Satan Santa for some people carrying axes to grind them. He's certainly got them, even if he didn't ask. Well done LMT and LWAB you embody the Spirit of Christmas!  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Mr Larrington on December 26, 2015, 05:39:02 pm
Some airfields have perimeter roads.  These tend to be flat as airfields tend to be built on plains. Those might offer Steve a traffic free loop of reasonable length, if a suitable one can be found and the airfield owner consents.
Good call.
The Science Museum owns Wroughton Airfield, just to the south of Swindon.
It has a perimeter road a little proud of 3 miles.
It isn't pancake flat, but it isn't far off it.
Nothing much (other than Swindon Model Aircraft Club) takes off or lands there these days - the runways aren't in particularly good condition, and there are few other facilities which would allow take-off and landing.
I can't help but wonder whether given the right 'scientific angle / record-breaking' approach, that their PR machine would welcome having a such a long-standing record broken on their site......

Castle Combe circuit (near Chippenham, Wilts) isn't heavily used for motorised stuffs, IIRC, as the locals have put in restrictions on noise.  Local, and not so local, cycling clubs can and do use it for not very much money.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: LittleWheelsandBig on December 26, 2015, 05:49:39 pm
Using an airfield perimeter road or a flat racing circuit is an excellent suggestion but the location would ideally have fast roads to get to it. That would rule out things like Richmond Park. Steve would only be likely to use such a circuit once a week or so and fast riders would mostly be prepared to ride with him on weekends only.

Jaded, run Steve's numbers yourself and see what conclusion you come to. Grinding Steve further into the dirt won't achieve his aim of taking Tommy's record. Happy Boxing Day!

For the slow of thinking, only HK and I have crewed for Steve at 24hr TTs, we were amongst the first to sponsor Steve, we were the first to host him and I offered to crew for him full-time between Christmas and New Year. We continue to wish him all the best in achieving his aims and would be happy to help him get there. What he and his team is doing now will not let him do that.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: Jurek on December 26, 2015, 05:52:11 pm
Using an airfield perimeter road or a flat racing circuit is an excellent suggestion but the location would ideally have fast roads to get to it. That would rule out things like Richmond Park. Steve would only be likely to use such a circuit once a week or so and fast riders would mostly be prepared to ride with him on weekends only.

Jaded, run Steve's numbers yourself and see what conclusion you come to. Further grinding Steve into the dirt won't achieve his aim of taking Tommy's record. Happy Boxing Day!
RAF Wroughton dangles from one of the tributaries of the A4.
FWIW Accommodation in the immediate area is (at best) pants IME (I spent months working at RAF Wroughton).
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
Post by: rafletcher on December 26, 2015, 05:53:24 pm
Silverstone perhaps.
Title: Re: Current thoughts on the record at