Yet Another Cycling Forum

General Category => Audax => Topic started by: RideHard on October 05, 2015, 02:08:20 pm

Title: Steam Ride SR 2016 + RAID PARIS 400km, 600km, 700km
Post by: RideHard on October 05, 2015, 02:08:20 pm
Steam Ride SR 2016
www.steamride.co.uk
 
Due to the limited number of ferry places, priorty given to those who are completeing Steam SR :
*** DO NOT apply before  Steamride 400km is completed  for Group PERM
      STRICTLY LIMITED PLACES for Raid Paris on June 4th ***
PERMANENTS can be ridden at any other time

The 600km ride planned for 4th June 2016 - as a Raid Paris
Option of 400km 1-way, 600km (100km optional prelude to Newhaven) & 700km round trips.

Steam Ride London - Paris - London : Golden Arrow Fleche d'Or (700)
           http://www.aukweb.net/perms/detail/TS03/ (http://www.aukweb.net/perms/detail/TS03/)   
Steam Ride London - Paris : Golden Arrow Fleche d'Or (600)
          http://www.aukweb.net/perms/detail/TS04/ (http://www.aukweb.net/perms/detail/TS04/)   
Steam Ride London - Paris : Golden Arrow Fleche d'Or (436)
          http://www.aukweb.net/perms/detail/TS06/ (http://www.aukweb.net/perms/detail/TS06/)   

An Anglo-French adventure, exploring some of France's most rural scenery, cycle along country roads. to a schedule that best suits your own abilities and riding style. WWW links, gps tracks to enable you to plan for your ride.
Ferry crossings need to be booked in advance via Newhaven-Dieppe 11pm-5am overnight, hourly returns via P&O Ferries Calais for the 600km & 700km. The 400km route is via Calais to Paris Gard du Nord. This is an X-rated event - so, the ride is Audax at it's most litteral and exciting.

Steam Rides Organiser
Tim
Title: Re: Steam Ride SR 2016 + RAID PARIS 400km, 600km, 700km
Post by: Aunt Maud on October 05, 2015, 07:09:27 pm
Have you figured out that route sheet yet, as I have a post PBP dinner with The ACP in Paris on the 7th November and was going to ride down.

Yours, AM
Title: Re: Steam Ride SR 2016 + RAID PARIS 400km, 600km, 700km
Post by: mattc on October 05, 2015, 07:20:26 pm
A really interresting idea (although perhaps only suited to those living a short ride from Victoria/Marble Arch).

Some constructive criticsm, phrased in a way that will not sound at all positive (cos I'm lazy - sorry!):
- its very confusing which ports these routes use
- cant we have at least an outline map? (controls would  be nice too)
- linking to your steamride site is just annoying - when you get there, you just find some waffle about other rides and a link back to the aukweb.net page that you  started from!!!
- 5am is a daft time to start a "full-value" 700km

Love,
Matty
Title: Re: Steam Ride SR 2016 + RAID PARIS 400km, 600km, 700km
Post by: alfapete on October 05, 2015, 07:23:17 pm
Looking for a 600 for my first (very tentative) SR - but if it's 400km to Paris how does the 600km work? Sorry for my ignorance
but please notice how much more polite I am than mattc
Title: Re: Steam Ride SR 2016 + RAID PARIS 400km, 600km, 700km
Post by: Cycling Redemption on October 05, 2015, 07:43:04 pm
This looks good but as others have commented not sure on routing and timings. If the 700 goes via new haven, over night boat, how does the start time work, would it be a 4pm start from London?  Also would the crossing time be part of the riding time. May be Dover to Paris and Dieppe for return, handy for a good sleep. Like the structure of the SR should be fun.
Title: Re: Steam Ride SR 2016 + RAID PARIS 400km, 600km, 700km
Post by: RideHard on October 05, 2015, 07:44:58 pm
Looking for a 600 for my first (very tentative) SR - but if it's 400km to Paris how does the 600km work? Sorry for my ignorance
but please notice how much more polite I am than mattc

Steam Ride SR 2016
www.steamride.co.uk  (* Sept-Nov added after Spring Steam Rides)
NB Total FLEXIBILITY .. start when you like & ride as Often as you like.... except I'm arranging a 'Raid Paris' on the w/e of the 4th June 2016, for friends & acquaintances from my Steam Ride SR

Choice of 200:
Steam Ride : LOL Ghan                        http://aukweb.net/events/detail/16-599/
Steam Ride : Ghan reversed
Steam Ride : Chiltern Pub Crawl          http://aukweb.net/events/detail/15-601/ https://yacf.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=93270.0

300 :
Steam Ride : University Challenge       http://aukweb.net/events/detail/16-607/

Choice of  400:
Steamride :London Circuit                   http://aukweb.net/events/detail/16-615/
Golden Arrow (Fleche D'Ord) 436    NB Start from Victoria Station  or Paris Gare du Nord
** 30 hrs 29min  including Calais - Dover crossing **

* AUK PERMS --> can be ridden at any time of the year. I'm arranging a Group PERM ("Raid Paris") for 4th June 2016   
Thanks Matty :)  Perms can start at any time of day too :)  So if a group wanted to ride the reverse direction, Paris to London 400.. fine!

Choice of 600 :  --> via East Grinstead (new home to the Golden Arrow:)  .. nice dining carriages too ;)
* Golden Arrow (Fleche D'ord) 600      NB Start is From Victoria Station or Dieppe (optional prologue to Dieppe)
** 41 hrs 57min  including Calais - Dover crossing ** (

* Golden Arrow (Fleche D'Ord) 700      NB Start is From Marble Arch via Paris-  finish Marble Arch
** 52hrs 30min  including both Newhaven-Dieppe & Calais-Dover crossing **
Title: Re: Steam Ride SR 2016 + RAID PARIS 400km, 600km, 700km
Post by: LittleWheelsandBig on October 05, 2015, 07:48:12 pm
The clock doesn't stop while you are on the ferry. Think of it as a moving control.
Title: Re: Steam Ride SR 2016 + RAID PARIS 400km, 600km, 700km
Post by: Aunt Maud on October 05, 2015, 07:53:38 pm
Whatch out for the Dieppe boat with the rumbly bearing, you won't get much sleep.
Title: Re: Steam Ride SR 2016 + RAID PARIS 400km, 600km, 700km
Post by: Martin on October 05, 2015, 08:10:22 pm
)
- linking to your steamride site is just annoying - when you get there, you just find some waffle about other rides and a link back to the aukweb.net page that you  started from!!!

+1 for all Steam Rides; btw what is the new route of the Golden Arrow? it doesn't exist! unless you mean the VSOE which uses the Tunnel

The clock doesn't stop while you are on the ferry. Think of it as a moving control.

I'm sure that's not the case for the 200 that does the IoW with a ferry both ways; definitely more time allowance on that
Title: Re: Steam Ride SR 2016 + RAID PARIS 400km, 600km, 700km
Post by: LittleWheelsandBig on October 05, 2015, 08:14:59 pm
The On and Off Shore 200 (and clock) starts once you get off the 1st ferry. The other 2 ferries are after the ride starts, so within the normal time limit.
Title: Re: Steam Ride SR 2016 + RAID PARIS 400km, 600km, 700km
Post by: Martin on October 05, 2015, 08:24:11 pm
The On and Off Shore 200 (and clock) starts once you get off the 1st ferry. The other 2 ferries are after the ride starts, so within the normal time limit.

I know the ride starts when you get off the ferry but I'll check this year's brevet card;

as an aside I did a DIY 200 which used a ferry earlier in the year; is the distance you are sitting on a ferry and not riding included in the total? google maps seems to think so (I made sure I subtracted it)
Title: Re: Steam Ride SR 2016 + RAID PARIS 400km, 600km, 700km
Post by: alfapete on October 05, 2015, 08:28:59 pm
So let's see if I've got this right. I can start in London, go via Dover and return to Dieppe - that seems to be about 600km, and if I do it on June 4th it's a group Perm. But I'll probably still be on my own as there are so many options everyone might be starting from somewhere different at a different time. Though I will be benefitting from your routesheet.

Or is this just a catalyst to get groups together to ride as an Arrow, and for teams to choose the distance/course to suit themselves? If so I'm up for a full value team
Title: Re: Steam Ride SR 2016 + RAID PARIS 400km, 600km, 700km
Post by: jsabine on October 05, 2015, 08:32:40 pm
The On and Off Shore 200 (and clock) starts once you get off the 1st ferry. The other 2 ferries are after the ride starts, so within the normal time limit.

I know the ride starts when you get off the ferry but I'll check this year's brevet card;

The event page (http://www.aukweb.net/events/detail/15-500/) says an 0715 start in Lymington, and a 13hr 28min time limit (for 202km)

Quote
as an aside I did a DIY 200 which used a ferry earlier in the year; is the distance you are sitting on a ferry and not riding included in the total? google maps seems to think so (I made sure I subtracted it)

99% sure the ferry-powered distance doesn't count (might be an argument the other way if you were crossing by pedalo) and that it therefore needs manual correction.
Title: Re: Steam Ride SR 2016 + RAID PARIS 400km, 600km, 700km
Post by: rogerzilla on October 05, 2015, 08:42:22 pm
(http://www.semgonline.com/steam/pics/rv_35027.jpg)

(they weren't very good engines apart from the boiler; British Railways rebuilt most of them into a more conventional form and they worked a lot better.  The valve gear and steam reverser were atrocious)
Title: Re: Steam Ride SR 2016 + RAID PARIS 400km, 600km, 700km
Post by: Martin on October 05, 2015, 09:05:36 pm
(http://www.semgonline.com/steam/pics/rv_35027.jpg)

(they weren't very good engines apart from the boiler; British Railways rebuilt most of them into a more conventional form and they worked a lot better.  The valve gear and steam reverser were atrocious)

[anorak]

what you have there is an unrebuilt Merchant Navy / Battle of Britain (more commonly known as a Spam can) not a Golden Arrow; that was the name of the train not the loco :)

the rebuilt versions were described as the bastard offspring of a BR and SR engine can't remember which

But they looked a lot nicer; witness Clan Line

(http://www.rail.co.uk/images/5161/original/5-35028-clan-line-on-Pullman-duties-Peter-Starks.jpg)

the only kettle I've ever been on the main line behind; in 1999

/[anorak]
Title: Re: Steam Ride SR 2016 + RAID PARIS 400km, 600km, 700km
Post by: Aunt Maud on October 05, 2015, 09:08:26 pm
Your picture's not working Martin.
Title: Re: Steam Ride SR 2016 + RAID PARIS 400km, 600km, 700km
Post by: Cycling Daddy on October 05, 2015, 09:26:15 pm
I would imagine that the refernce to Golden Arrow's current home is the carriage that the Bluebell line a has?
Title: Re: Steam Ride SR 2016 + RAID PARIS 400km, 600km, 700km
Post by: Martin on October 05, 2015, 10:44:57 pm
I would imagine that the refernce to Golden Arrow's current home is the carriage that the Bluebell line a has?

3 in fact; but the chance of seeing them on this ride (unless it happens to be on a Sunday lunchtime) unlikely
Title: Re: Steam Ride SR 2016 + RAID PARIS 400km, 600km, 700km
Post by: Ivo on October 06, 2015, 09:36:10 pm
An interesting option for those living on the continent would be starting it in Dover and finishing in Calais. Is that possible?
Title: Re: Steam Ride SR 2016 + RAID PARIS 400km, 600km, 700km
Post by: RideHard on October 07, 2015, 01:35:48 pm
An interesting option for those living on the continent would be starting it in Dover and finishing in Calais. Is that possible?

Yes, it is possible to start in Dover and finish in Calais, as you can start at any control in a circular Audax.. Golden Arrow (Fleche D'or) 700   :thumbsup:

But.. I had planned for it to start in London Marble Arch, so it's a straight 100km to Newhaven for the overnight-ferry (sleep-dinner control) as it was afterwork Friday and to TEAM UP with the Golden Arrow (Fleche D'or) 600 group, who maybe took an earlier crossing or came over on Friday overnight or did the 'prelude'..
The Dieppe ferrys don't run frequently, www.aferry.co.uk   so you don't want to miss that crossing ::-)
But on the plus side, maybe 240km in yer legs would be a better time to cross..  it's all about the timing, as you'll have to figure in 45min check-in time ;)

refernce to Golden Arrow's current home
You guessed it, we'll be calling in at East Grinstead, where trips on the Golden Arrow run :)
Title: Re: Steam Ride SR 2016 + RAID PARIS 400km, 600km, 700km
Post by: Ivo on October 07, 2015, 05:00:19 pm
An interesting option for those living on the continent would be starting it in Dover and finishing in Calais. Is that possible?

Yes, it is possible to start in Dover and finish in Calais, as you can start at any control in a circular Audax.. Golden Arrow (Fleche D'or) 700   :thumbsup:

But.. I had planned for it to start in London Marble Arch, so it's a straight 100km to Newhaven for the overnight-ferry (sleep-dinner control) as it was afterwork Friday and to TEAM UP with the Golden Arrow (Fleche D'or) 600 group, who maybe took an earlier crossing or came over on Friday overnight or did the 'prelude'..
The Dieppe ferrys don't run frequently, www.aferry.co.uk   so you don't want to miss that crossing ::-)
But on the plus side, maybe 240km in yer legs would be a better time to cross..  it's all about the timing, as you'll have to figure in 45min check-in time ;)

refernce to Golden Arrow's current home
You guessed it, we'll be calling in at East Grinstead, where trips on the Golden Arrow run :)

Interesting. I've already done my provisional scheduling for 2016 but if I have to revamp the planning, this might be an interesting option.
Title: Re: Steam Ride SR 2016 + RAID PARIS 400km, 600km, 700km
Post by: Veloman on October 07, 2015, 06:41:34 pm
I appear to have received an personal e-mail informing of these events.

Anyone know why I received the e0-mail and how my e-mail address was obtained?
Title: Re: Steam Ride SR 2016 + RAID PARIS 400km, 600km, 700km
Post by: Cycling Daddy on October 07, 2015, 07:48:07 pm
Have you done another Steam Ride perhaps??
Title: Re: Steam Ride SR 2016 + RAID PARIS 400km, 600km, 700km
Post by: billyam998 on October 07, 2015, 07:53:22 pm
I appear to have received an personal e-mail informing of these events.

Anyone know why I received the e0-mail and how my e-mail address was obtained?

I did wonder exactly the same thing  ???
 
Title: Re: Steam Ride SR 2016 + RAID PARIS 400km, 600km, 700km
Post by: Veloman on October 07, 2015, 07:54:17 pm
Have you done another Steam Ride perhaps??

Nope!

But the rides look great and I'm interested.

Also interested as to how the e-mail arose as it has been a first in terms of informing me of an event.

I would not have been surprised to receive one saying something like "please don't bother entering"!
Title: Re: Steam Ride SR 2016 + RAID PARIS 400km, 600km, 700km
Post by: Aunt Maud on October 07, 2015, 09:43:22 pm
I hacked the AUK computer and put you all on Tims' "spam to do" list. Not really
Title: Re: Steam Ride SR 2016 + RAID PARIS 400km, 600km, 700km
Post by: Veloman on October 07, 2015, 09:56:14 pm
I hacked the AUK computer and put you all on Tims' "spam to do" list. Not really

Well, that's the only explanation received so far.

Had some PM traffic, but no explanation as to why I received an e-mail informing of the event or how my e-mail details came in the possession of the sender.

Anyone else received one or am I "The Chosen One"?
Title: Re: Steam Ride SR 2016 + RAID PARIS 400km, 600km, 700km
Post by: Aunt Maud on October 07, 2015, 10:02:22 pm
You'll also be receiving other exciting emails such as;

"Congratulations, you have been chosen to receive a free psychic reading."

and

"You've been accepted by who's who."

Shortly.
Title: Re: Steam Ride SR 2016 + RAID PARIS 400km, 600km, 700km
Post by: Phil W on October 07, 2015, 10:56:28 pm
I got the email but i have done  Steam rides in the past.
Title: Re: Steam Ride SR 2016 + RAID PARIS 400km, 600km, 700km
Post by: RideHard on October 08, 2015, 02:53:29 pm
Places are strictly limited and Group PERM's are intended for friends and acquaintances from my Steam Ride SR  :)

* Note to self: Show courtesy by asking if it's ok to add/remove from mailing list, instead of emailing my contacts list  :facepalm:
Might be easier, if those who do not want contacting, supply me their emails..  reverse-marketing LOL

Title: Re: Steam Ride SR 2016 + RAID PARIS 400km, 600km, 700km
Post by: Veloman on October 08, 2015, 03:25:32 pm
Have you done another Steam Ride perhaps??

I would not have been surprised to receive one saying something like "please don't bother entering"!

Can someone please inform me who Veloman is,  email & club too ??? 
Places are strictly limited and Group PERM's are intended for friends and acquaintances from my Steam Ride SR  ;D

Please note that I have had PM traffic with RideHard where I asked how he obtained my e-mail address.  Unfortunately, he has obfuscated and declined to reply to my simple request.  He now seeks further information that is quite irrelevant and I question why he wishes to know my name, club and e-mail address when he can simply respond to my PMs on this matter.  I can only assume he wishes to determine whether I can be categorised as a "friends and acquaintances".

So, RideHard, how about informing me, and others on this thread, of how you came to have my e-mail address when I have never entered any of your events?

Or shall I inform everyone?
Title: Re: Steam Ride SR 2016 + RAID PARIS 400km, 600km, 700km
Post by: Aunt Maud on October 08, 2015, 03:32:05 pm
I got the email, but it wasn't on any email address I've used for AUK stuff.

Have you ridden "Straight out of Hackney" or any other Hackney rides VM ?
Title: Re: Steam Ride SR 2016 + RAID PARIS 400km, 600km, 700km
Post by: jsabine on October 08, 2015, 03:38:00 pm
Have you done another Steam Ride perhaps??

I would not have been surprised to receive one saying something like "please don't bother entering"!

Can someone please inform me who Veloman is,  email & club too ??? 
Places are strictly limited and Group PERM's are intended for friends and acquaintances from my Steam Ride SR  ;D

Please note that I have had PM traffic with RideHard where I asked how he obtained my e-mail address.  Unfortunately, he has obfuscated and declined to reply to my simple request.  He now seeks further information that is quite irrelevant and I question why he wishes to know my name, club and e-mail address when he can simply respond to my PMs on this matter.  I can only assume he wishes to determine whether I can be categorised as a "friends and acquaintances".

So, RideHard, how about informing me, and others on this thread, of how you came to have my e-mail address when I have never entered any of your events?

Or shall I inform everyone?

To be fair to RideHard, if you're asking him how he got your email address, he probably does need to know which email address is actually yours before he can answer, except in general terms. If you're veloman@veloman.com IRL, maybe he can take an educated guess, but if you use hardrider@hardriding.com he might need a nudge.
Title: Re: Steam Ride SR 2016 + RAID PARIS 400km, 600km, 700km
Post by: Veloman on October 08, 2015, 03:41:00 pm
^^^^
No, I have not ridden any of those rides although I wanted to as they looked really good and had even gone to the effort of checking transport/accommodation etc, before I was informed of the diary clash.  I also like the look of the Steam Rides and was considering the logistics of riding them and was following the thread.  Then I checked my e-mail and was surprised to find an e-mail from RideHard even though I have never forwarded my e-mail to him by entering his events.  So I sent a PM asking how he obtained my e-mail address.

PMs to him have not resolved the matter as he has not provided an answer.  Instead he reverts to YACF to 'unmask' me and I question for what reason.  Perhaps I will not be riding any Steam Ride events even if I wish to.
Title: Re: Steam Ride SR 2016 + RAID PARIS 400km, 600km, 700km
Post by: Veloman on October 08, 2015, 03:42:57 pm
To be fair to RideHard, if you're asking him how he got your email address, he probably does need to know which email address is actually yours before he can answer, except in general terms. If you're veloman@veloman.com IRL, maybe he can take an educated guess, but if you use hardrider@hardriding.com he might need a nudge.

I think you know how he obtained my e-mail address.  Feel free to PM me if you are doubt and I can inform you.
Title: Re: Steam Ride SR 2016 + RAID PARIS 400km, 600km, 700km
Post by: jsabine on October 08, 2015, 04:12:41 pm
To be fair to RideHard, if you're asking him how he got your email address, he probably does need to know which email address is actually yours before he can answer, except in general terms. If you're veloman@veloman.com IRL, maybe he can take an educated guess, but if you use hardrider@hardriding.com he might need a nudge.

I think you know how he obtained my e-mail address.  Feel free to PM me if you are doubt and I can inform you.

PMd as no, I don't know, though I can think of several possibilities.

I'm assuming that the email I got from RideHard is either because I've entered a previous Steam Ride, or because I rode (part of) last year's ACH/ACB grudge match.
Title: Re: Steam Ride SR 2016 + RAID PARIS 400km, 600km, 700km
Post by: marcusjb on October 08, 2015, 05:18:26 pm
No email for me

Have ridden an ACH event (a couple - straight outta Hackney and Greenwich mean climb) so it is not coming from that channel.

I always find the steam rides hard to understand as there are soooo many options for distance, alternative route suggestions etc.  I never quite know what they are. Sometimes, less is more!
Title: Re: Steam Ride SR 2016 + RAID PARIS 400km, 600km, 700km
Post by: RideHard on October 08, 2015, 05:33:43 pm
No email for me

Have ridden an ACH event (a couple - straight outta Hackney and Greenwich mean climb) so it is not coming from that channel.

I always find the steam rides hard to understand as there are soooo many options for distance, alternative route suggestions etc.  I never quite know what they are. Sometimes, less is more!

I do like to offer an optional short Roubaix section or hill climb.. but to be honest I listen to feed back and some riders really appreciate them..  you can't please all the people all the time, but you can try   O:-)
I now keep these options, seperate to the Route sheet & gpx   :thumbsup: :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Steam Ride SR 2016 + RAID PARIS 400km, 600km, 700km
Post by: jsabine on October 08, 2015, 05:50:52 pm
So, RideHard, how about informing me, and others on this thread, of how you came to have my e-mail address when I have never entered any of your events?

Tim, I'll repeat this question.

Where did you get the email addresses that you sent your promotional email to?
Title: Re: Steam Ride SR 2016 + RAID PARIS 400km, 600km, 700km
Post by: RideHard on October 09, 2015, 01:24:47 am
So, RideHard, how about informing me, and others on this thread, of how you came to have my e-mail address when I have never entered any of your events?

Tim, I'll repeat this question.

Where did you get the email addresses that you sent your promotional email to?

 The truth is, if this app is 1/2 as good as you've been makng out, then I don't want to land some poor unfortuanate organiser in similar trouble, with a minority of 1 or 2 individuals, even though they may be struggling to advertise their well planned events, and the recipient of those emails wouldn't have otherwise known of an event happening on their doorstep   ;D
 
 However, I maybe coerced at the arrivee into divulging it's name  :P

 PM Me with your Real Name & email (if you want on the e-mailing list or not) for the name of the 'APP' everyone is excited to hear of :)

 
Title: Re: Steam Ride SR 2016 + RAID PARIS 400km, 600km, 700km
Post by: iddu on October 09, 2015, 11:33:28 am
 ???

*cough*

Tim. You've had my views [other hat]elsewhere[/other hat]; you should know the general maxim here is "be excellent to each other" (http://mygeekwisdom.com/2011/09/12/be-excellent-to-each-other/)

Please answer, if you've not already done so, the questions regarding sources - by PM if you wish, or in open forum.
Title: Re: Steam Ride SR 2016 + RAID PARIS 400km, 600km, 700km
Post by: Frank9755 on October 09, 2015, 02:33:11 pm
Tim,

Well done on organising loads of events and for promoting them enthusiastically.
Thanks for sending me an email to let me know about your latest one.

If you've cut some corners on how you built your list, I think it's right that people shoud have the option to unsubscribe instantly, but think that hounding you is disproprtionate and, IMHO, a bit obsessive and not 'excellent' behaviour. 
Title: Re: Steam Ride SR 2016 + RAID PARIS 400km, 600km, 700km
Post by: jsabine on October 09, 2015, 03:00:53 pm
So, RideHard, how about informing me, and others on this thread, of how you came to have my e-mail address when I have never entered any of your events?

Tim, I'll repeat this question.

Where did you get the email addresses that you sent your promotional email to?

 The truth is, if this app is 1/2 as good as you've been makng out, then I don't want to land some poor unfortuanate organiser in similar trouble, with a minority of 1 or 2 individuals, even though they may be struggling to advertise their well planned events, and the recipient of those emails wouldn't have otherwise known of an event happening on their doorstep   ;D
 
 However, I maybe coerced at the arrivee into divulging it's name  :P

 PM Me with your Real Name & email (if you want on the e-mailing list or not) for the name of the 'APP' everyone is excited to hear of :)

Tim, I don't have a clue what app (or 'APP') you're talking about, nor why you're suddenly talking about other organisers and events.

So far, the only clue you've given in answer to those asking where you derived your list is in a post up there^^^, which I *think* you've edited so it now says:
* Note to self: Show courtesy by asking if it's ok to add/remove from mailing list, instead of emailing my contacts list  :facepalm:
Might be easier, if those who do not want contacting, supply me their emails..  reverse-marketing LOL

It would, I think, have been polite to give a straight answer, especially if it's as simple as using your existing contacts list.

If you've cut some corners on how you built your list, I think it's right that people shoud have the option to unsubscribe instantly, but think that hounding you is disproprtionate and, IMHO, a bit obsessive and not 'excellent' behaviour. 

I think asking a straight question, and then repeating it when the response is not an answer but obfuscation, falls a little short of hounding.

In any case, although I'm not personally terribly bothered about getting an email from Tim, like iddu I've got another hat which makes me a little concerned about the sources he may have used.

Title: Re: Steam Ride SR 2016 + RAID PARIS 400km, 600km, 700km
Post by: Phil W on October 09, 2015, 03:59:08 pm
Tim,

It does not do you any favours to not answer a direct question; it is questioned why you have sent an unsolicited marketing email to a member of this forum. They did not send their email address to you, nor did they sign up for any newsletters or marketing.

There are specific laws around this, which it seems you may have breached. We have to be excellent in the way we handle personal data, and do not use it in a way not previously agreed.

As you know I look after the LEL website. We have subscription details there as well as rider and volunteer details. It would be so easy to use that data in a way it wasn't intended. But we don't. We use it in line with our published privacy policy.  People are able to unsubscribe from LEL mailing lists at any time, and every newsletter has a clear and simple unsubscribe link. We do not share that data with third parties  except as stated, and that's only if you're a rider for validation and insurance purposes etc.

So please be excellent also, answer the straight forward questions being asked of you, and give people a clear option to be removed from your mailing list. Then in future ask if people would like to be on your mailing list, and give them an easy option to unsubscribe at any time.

I was fairly relaxed about the email, but I am concerned about your evasiveness here and unwillingness to be straight forward in your responses.  if as an organiser you need to find a better way to advertise your events, then surely that something for you to discuss with the auk board as to how they can help you and others in this regard.

Phil

Title: Re: Steam Ride SR 2016 + RAID PARIS 400km, 600km, 700km
Post by: RideHard on October 09, 2015, 04:44:16 pm
Promotion was via wix shoutout :                                    http://shoutout.wix.com/
As anybody who recieved email can concur..

My website is www.steamride.co.uk               aka:              sollesse.wix.com/
Contacts: collected from timsollesse@gmail.com

Good Luck promoting your events  using FREE Apps!!!

Email: timsollesse@gmail.com to unsubsribe
Title: Re: Steam Ride SR 2016 + RAID PARIS 400km, 600km, 700km
Post by: Phil W on October 09, 2015, 04:55:55 pm
Thanks Tim.

So if someone like Veloman wants removing from the list, can they do that on the website or do they need to email you at the address in your post?
Title: Re: Steam Ride SR 2016 + RAID PARIS 400km, 600km, 700km
Post by: iddu on October 09, 2015, 04:57:40 pm
Thanks Tim.

So if someone like Veloman wants removing from the list, can they do that on the website or do they need to email you at the address in your post?

Thank you Tim - I hope that answers people's questions.

2nd link in the blat was [unsubscribe]
Title: Re: Steam Ride SR 2016 + RAID PARIS 400km, 600km, 700km
Post by: Veloman on October 09, 2015, 05:21:07 pm
Thank you Tim - I hope that answers people's questions.

Unfortunately, it does not answer my question:

So, RideHard, how about informing me, and others on this thread, of how you came to have my e-mail address when I have never entered any of your events?

We now have an answer informing us of how the e-mail/marketing blurb was distributed, namely by using WixShoutOut, but in order for the distribution to take place, you need e-mail addresses and I have never forwarded my e-mail address to RideHard (Tim).

It does not do you any favours to not answer a direct question; it is questioned why you have sent an unsolicited marketing email to a member of this forum. They did not send their email address to you, nor did they sign up for any newsletters or marketing.

There are specific laws around this, which it seems you may have breached. We have to be excellent in the way we handle personal data, and do not use it in a way not previously agreed.
My bold

So although we have been informed of the 'vehicle' used to distribute the unsolicited e-mails, we are still none the wiser as to how the e-mail addresses were obtained and I can only repeat that I have never sent any e-mail to the sender of the unsolicited e-mail.  So how come I'm on the distribution list and how has my e-mail address been obtained?
Title: Re: Steam Ride SR 2016 + RAID PARIS 400km, 600km, 700km
Post by: alwyn on October 09, 2015, 05:23:12 pm
Ah, so you harvested email addresses from your contact list? I can see why someone would do that, but it's a bit 90s. You're also likely to hack folk off, as you've discovered.

RideHard, It's dead easy to build a mailing list from a contact form on your website and to mail folk from that list. I've never used Wix, but mailchimp is great for a list of the size you probably use. You could even use your contacts to invite people to join your mailing list (though that's how the UK sees it - other European countries are a bit stricter on data protection than that.)

It's probably worth also spending a bit of time crafting a privacy policy to tell people what data you collect, how you use it, when you delete it, and how people can see (and get deleted) what you hold. AUK's policy is at http://aukweb.net/home/privacy/ and is perhaps a touch too concise. LEL's is at  https://londonedinburghlondon.com/privacy and is far too detailed.

I know all this might look like boring paperwork that gets in the way of putting events on, but it will set you up beautifully to build on interest in your events.
Title: Re: Steam Ride SR 2016 + RAID PARIS 400km, 600km, 700km
Post by: iddu on October 09, 2015, 05:44:12 pm
Thank you Tim - I hope that answers people's questions.

Unfortunately, it does not answer my question:

So, RideHard, how about informing me, and others on this thread, of how you came to have my e-mail address when I have never entered any of your events?
:
(snipped)

TS>Contacts: collected from timsollesse@gmail.com

As given by alwyn, he's stated that the list was harvested from his Gmail history of e-mail correspondence.

Unless you want me to go and sit in his lap and twiddle his keyboard, you have to take that statement at face value.

Whether you two have communicated by e-mail in any shape or form is an off-board matter; he either provides evidence of prior e-mail content to you, or he doesn't.   If he can't / won't, then we'll revisit.

Tim, action please.
Title: Re: Steam Ride SR 2016 + RAID PARIS 400km, 600km, 700km
Post by: LittleWheelsandBig on October 09, 2015, 06:35:52 pm
I've had emails from several AUK organisers that CCed, rather than BCCed everybody. Can an email account automatically transfer CCed email addresses into a contact list?
Title: Re: Steam Ride SR 2016 + RAID PARIS 400km, 600km, 700km
Post by: alfapete on October 09, 2015, 07:21:04 pm
Isn't this a bit like one of those e-mail conversations which goes on for four days which could have been sorted out in 30 seconds by an old fashioned telephone conversation. And because it's in the public domain it is open to interfering busybodies (like me) to chuck in their own observations to inflame things further! One of those occasions where digital technology certainly doesn't feel like progress.

Mind you, humility can be equally expressed on line or on the phone...
Title: Re: Steam Ride SR 2016 + RAID PARIS 400km, 600km, 700km
Post by: Cycling Daddy on October 09, 2015, 07:35:29 pm
I've had emails from several AUK organisers that CCed, rather than BCCed everybody. Can an email account automatically transfer CCed email addresses into a contact list?
I am pretty sure there are apps that I will  post below.
L
Title: Re: Steam Ride SR 2016 + RAID PARIS 400km, 600km, 700km
Post by: Cycling Daddy on October 09, 2015, 07:41:30 pm
Main point:  Tim lays on a really good range of interesting rides and breaks new ground.  These are an example and seem ambitious and probably audacious.  Please do more.

Drivel:  There seems to be some ?illusion? that emails can somehow be kept 'secret'.  I am not sure this is the case I am not expert at all.  However because of this thread a I poked around  and used an app that makes a pretty good job of identifying an email address from say an entry in Linkedin.  I think it generates likely emails and then pings until it gets a hit.  Hits come back at three levels of certainty. 

I work on the assumption that if I participate in Social Media and use a Mobile Phone that all is essentially public.  So  I have a choice participate but understand this is a public act or not participate.   If an org. contacts me I would assume they had my email either through emails from me or through emails from others that had my email in cc rather than bcc.  But they might have picked it up from my workplace or places like this.  I do get junk emails (about 16 so far today.  They go straight to their own folder which then gets wiped.  The web is very much a two-edged sword and trying to make it work the way you want not at all easy.
Cnut (a much-improved spelling of Canute) showed us the problem. (http://s3-eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/lookandlearn-preview/B/B841/B841514.jpg)
Title: Re: Steam Ride SR 2016 + RAID PARIS 400km, 600km, 700km
Post by: Aunt Maud on October 09, 2015, 08:24:48 pm
And I always thought my email address was easy to get, judging by all the crap I keep receiving.

Also funnily enough I used to work with a bloke named Knut, when we lived in Bergen, so you may not be too far off with that spelling.
Title: Re: Steam Ride SR 2016 + RAID PARIS 400km, 600km, 700km
Post by: Ian H on October 09, 2015, 08:50:40 pm
I've had emails from several AUK organisers that CCed, rather than BCCed everybody. Can an email account automatically transfer CCed email addresses into a contact list?

Out of interest I checked the contacts list in my gmail account (Tim uses gmail) and it includes a surprising number of people I have never knowingly emailed.  There appears to be some cross-fertilisation from G+. 
Title: Re: Steam Ride SR 2016 + RAID PARIS 400km, 600km, 700km
Post by: Somnolent on October 09, 2015, 09:03:35 pm
My spam from RideHard came to an address that (although very publicly available on the AUK website) had not been used to correspond with Tim.
My private** address, which I had used to correspond with him, went un-spammed.

 ???

** Private, as in not published on website, but in fact widely known to many AUKs.
Title: Re: Steam Ride SR 2016 + RAID PARIS 400km, 600km, 700km
Post by: RideHard on October 10, 2015, 03:17:43 pm
I've had emails from several AUK organisers that CCed, rather than BCCed everybody. Can an email account automatically transfer CCed email addresses into a contact list?

Out of interest I checked the contacts list in my gmail account (Tim uses gmail) and it includes a surprising number of people I have never knowingly emailed.  There appears to be some cross-fertilisation from G+.

could have been sorted out in 30 seconds by an old fashioned telephone conversation.

Despite Veloman's helpfulness, in identifying himself only as "Veloman". I can now, finally, confirm the WixShoutout and/or Gmail utilises cc email addresses. I have forwarded  2 instances as proof CC's.
Title: Re: Steam Ride SR 2016 + RAID PARIS 400km, 600km, 700km
Post by: Martin on October 10, 2015, 11:31:28 pm
Tim; your wix website is uninformative and I'm not interested in any of your rides unless I seek them out via the AUK website;

I do not expect to receive any more of this; capiche?  :)
Title: Re: Steam Ride SR 2016 + RAID PARIS 400km, 600km, 700km
Post by: Whitedown Man on October 11, 2015, 12:00:56 am
Tim; your wix website is uninformative and I'm not interested in any of your rides unless I seek them out via the AUK website;

I do not expect to receive any more of this; capiche?  :)

Jeez ... was that really necessary and proportionate?.

Those of us that like either Tim or his events or both, let's continue to enjoy riding them. Those who are not fans, fair enough - hope you guys continue to enjoy riding too. And all of us, we're all ultimately on the same side - how about just get on with getting along?
Title: Re: Steam Ride SR 2016 + RAID PARIS 400km, 600km, 700km
Post by: Bobby on October 11, 2015, 01:08:36 am
Anyhoo, Tim - any chance you can put a ride/route outline map on your web page, I think that'd help people who may be interested get more of a feel for each (especially the 6 and 700 :)) cheers
Title: Re: Steam Ride SR 2016 + RAID PARIS 400km, 600km, 700km
Post by: Cycling Daddy on October 11, 2015, 05:41:28 am
Tim; your wix website is uninformative and I'm not interested in any of your rides unless I seek them out via the AUK website;

I do not expect to receive any more of this; capiche?  :)

Jeez ... was that really necessary and proportionate?.

Those of us that like either Tim or his events or both, let's continue to enjoy riding them. Those who are not fans, fair enough - hope you guys continue to enjoy riding too. And all of us, we're all ultimately on the same side - how about just get on with getting along?
Note this was done with a smile but if you do not want people o use your email then delete your account.  You can control what you read but not what arrives if you maintain a web presence. 
Title: Re: Steam Ride SR 2016 + RAID PARIS 400km, 600km, 700km
Post by: Aunt Maud on October 11, 2015, 08:18:21 am
WM, I think the  :) in Martins post might have given the  ;)   ;) away.
Title: Re: Steam Ride SR 2016 + RAID PARIS 400km, 600km, 700km
Post by: Ian H on October 11, 2015, 09:32:02 am

Note this was done with a smile but if you do not want people o use your email then delete your account.  You can control what you read but not what arrives if you maintain a web presence.

This reads rather like an invitation to organisers to ignore good manners and even the laws governing unsolicited emails.
About spam (https://ico.org.uk/for-the-public/online/spam-emails)

Title: Re: Steam Ride SR 2016 + RAID PARIS 400km, 600km, 700km
Post by: Martin on October 11, 2015, 10:19:47 am
it was a friendly but serious request to Tim not to use whatever he has used to auto-email me, I've no doubt he's a good organiser and his events are very good.
Title: Re: Steam Ride SR 2016 + RAID PARIS 400km, 600km, 700km
Post by: Cycling Daddy on October 11, 2015, 01:59:14 pm

Note this was done with a smile but if you do not want people o use your email then delete your account.  You can control what you read but not what arrives if you maintain a web presence.

This reads rather like an invitation to organisers to ignore good manners and even the laws governing unsolicited emails.
About spam (https://ico.org.uk/for-the-public/online/spam-emails)
About Spam (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=anwy2MPT5RE)  :)
Title: Re: Steam Ride SR 2016 + RAID PARIS 400km, 600km, 700km
Post by: Ian H on October 11, 2015, 07:53:07 pm

About Spam (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=anwy2MPT5RE)  :)

Do I assume that's AUK's official stance on unsolicited emails?
Title: Re: Steam Ride SR 2016 + RAID PARIS 400km, 600km, 700km
Post by: Bianchi Boy on October 12, 2015, 07:00:17 am
I've had emails from several AUK organisers that CCed, rather than BCCed everybody. Can an email account automatically transfer CCed email addresses into a contact list?
I work in IT. Any post, mail or contact to social media can be traced and identified. Once off your computer unless you are using some fancy encryption or comms method your communication is visible to almost anyone who spends more than 30 seconds looking. If you look up the history of the internet you will find that security was added as an afterthought rather than build in.

The funny thing about openness and transparency is that it makes everyone the opposite. "Oh if what I say will last for every and be read by everyone I will say very little". So no one says anything of meaning or substance. Politicians have known this for some time which is why they are are great at speaking a lot of words that when analysed have no content.

BB 

BB
Title: Re: Steam Ride SR 2016 + RAID PARIS 400km, 600km, 700km
Post by: Ian H on October 12, 2015, 08:48:24 am
The issue is not how spammers operate, but what is acceptable use of email by an organiser.
Title: Re: Steam Ride SR 2016 + RAID PARIS 400km, 600km, 700km
Post by: fboab on October 12, 2015, 09:47:21 am
The summary of the data protection act at Gov.uk (https://www.gov.uk/data-protection/the-data-protection-act)implies that contact about the specific ride you've entered is the extent of the data usage you've agreed to.
Title: Re: Steam Ride SR 2016 + RAID PARIS 400km, 600km, 700km
Post by: Bianchi Boy on October 12, 2015, 07:37:52 pm
The summary of the data protection act at Gov.uk (https://www.gov.uk/data-protection/the-data-protection-act)implies that contact about the specific ride you've entered is the extent of the data usage you've agreed to.
Not sure how the data protection act would be enforced against a voluntary organiser who is acting in his own time. It does not apply to private individuals.

BB
Title: Re: Steam Ride SR 2016 + RAID PARIS 400km, 600km, 700km
Post by: Frank9755 on October 13, 2015, 10:07:35 am
I expect anyone making a complaint to the ICO would get laughed at.  The Data Protection Act was introduced for very good reasons to protect people's rights. 

I cannot believe that its authors would have considered that it would be proportionate for it to be used to harrass a guy who sent one email to try to organise a bike ride.
Title: Re: Steam Ride SR 2016 + RAID PARIS 400km, 600km, 700km
Post by: iddu on October 13, 2015, 11:49:01 am
I expect anyone making a complaint to the ICO would get laughed at.  The Data Protection Act was introduced for very good reasons to protect people's rights. 

I cannot believe that its authors would have considered that it would be proportionate for it to be used to harrass a guy who sent one email to try to organise a bike ride.

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2003/2426/regulation/22/made

Note carefully that PECR sutbly changes the emphasis from Organisation(s) to person, thus coping with the singular individual that sends [gazillions of] spams using automated technologies
Title: Re: Steam Ride SR 2016 + RAID PARIS 400km, 600km, 700km
Post by: Ian H on October 13, 2015, 04:03:59 pm
So what do people think is reasonable behaviour by organisers trying to advertise their events?   I think only one person has made a serious complaint. 
Title: Re: Steam Ride SR 2016 + RAID PARIS 400km, 600km, 700km
Post by: Pete Mas on October 13, 2015, 05:16:40 pm
Personally I would have no objection to receiving emails from organisers informing me of their proposed rides. Better to receive emails about something that might be of interest to me than 'junk' emails from companies about products of no interest to me.

Maybe there could be a monthly email newsletter, to supplement Arrivee, (which we could sign up to), in which organisers could tell us about their new and exciting ride plans? Or perhaps a separate facebook audax group for new rides information.
Title: Re: Steam Ride SR 2016 + RAID PARIS 400km, 600km, 700km
Post by: Frank9755 on October 13, 2015, 07:19:41 pm
So what do people think is reasonable behaviour by organisers trying to advertise their events?   I think only one person has made a serious complaint.

I'm very happy to have one email when an organiser whose events I have ridden before, launches a new one that I might not be aware of (ie as in this case).  There should be an 'unsubscribe' button.
Title: Re: Steam Ride SR 2016 + RAID PARIS 400km, 600km, 700km
Post by: Bianchi Boy on October 13, 2015, 09:58:30 pm
Logic has left the room and people should grow up and stop getting annoyed about something that could have been done away with by pressing the delete button.

I also have too much time on my hands by bothering to add to this thread.

BB