Yet Another Cycling Forum

Random Musings => Miscellany => Grow Your Own => Topic started by: mrcharly-YHT on May 30, 2016, 12:05:17 pm

Title: what to do with pernicious weeds?
Post by: mrcharly-YHT on May 30, 2016, 12:05:17 pm
We have a few weeds growing in our garden and I pull as much as possible (ground elder, some weird thing with red stems that spreads, brambles).

Garden is small, so I can't just pile them in a corner. What to do with this stuff when I pull it out?
Title: Re: what to do with pernicious weeds?
Post by: fboab on May 30, 2016, 12:27:48 pm
Stick it in a brazier to dry out over the summer and then burn it in the autumn.
Title: Re: what to do with pernicious weeds?
Post by: Pancho on May 30, 2016, 12:35:51 pm
Council green-waste composting service?
Title: Re: what to do with pernicious weeds?
Post by: mrcharly-YHT on May 30, 2016, 01:46:50 pm
Council green-waste composting service?
They don't take these sorts of weeds.

I might have to set aside some sort of space for a brazier - although there really isn't room. And what is this dry out of which you speak? I live in the north. We have damp and not so damp.
Title: Re: what to do with pernicious weeds?
Post by: fboab on May 30, 2016, 04:35:34 pm
And what is this dry out of which you speak?

Get one with a lid. (https://www.amazon.co.uk/GALVANISED-BRAZIER-INCINERATOR-BURNER-OUTDOOR/dp/B00CH21K4E)
If you can layer your 'wet' weed roots with twiggy stuff (brambles?) it'll dry fine.
Title: Re: what to do with pernicious weeds?
Post by: Legs on May 31, 2016, 09:29:18 am
some weird thing with red stems that spreads,
Shining cranesbill?

I'd just put anything like that into my brown bin or onto my bonfire heap.  The only thing that gets special treatment is my lovely Japanese knotweed, which gets spreads out on a tarp to dry, then immediately burnt.

I'm unleashing the power of glyphosate on my garden at the moment, though...
Title: Re: what to do with pernicious weeds?
Post by: mrcharly-YHT on June 01, 2016, 04:11:58 pm
some weird thing with red stems that spreads,
Shining cranesbill?
That's the stuff.

Not sure we have room for a brazier.
Enough paving to park two bloody cars out front, a patio area large enough for 10 people around a bbq, 'fire pit' area big enough for 15 but hardly any ruddy garden space. Shouldn't complain, on the bright side it only takes 5 min to mow the lawn.
Title: Re: what to do with pernicious weeds?
Post by: Ham on June 01, 2016, 06:59:20 pm
What do you do with grass? The plants and leaves can be composted safely.
Title: Re: what to do with pernicious weeds?
Post by: caerau on June 01, 2016, 07:53:47 pm
What do you do with grass?


Biscuits if you can't do a reefer.
Title: Re: what to do with pernicious weeds?
Post by: SteveC on June 01, 2016, 08:00:37 pm
What do you do with grass? The plants and leaves can be composted safely.
You can compost grass. It's best if you mix it with woody stuff as you put it on the heap. Newspaper will work at a pinch (not that we get those these days)
Title: Re: what to do with pernicious weeds?
Post by: rafletcher on June 01, 2016, 08:42:17 pm
Council green-waste composting service?
They don't take these sorts of weeds.

Are you sure? Knotweed is a no-no, but anything else will be ok in a hot composting system such as they will use..
Title: Re: what to do with pernicious weeds?
Post by: mrcharly-YHT on June 02, 2016, 08:37:03 am
Council green-waste composting service?
They don't take these sorts of weeds.

Are you sure? Knotweed is a no-no, but anything else will be ok in a hot composting system such as they will use..
100% certain. No 'invasive weeds'. That rules out Ground Elder,

Grass and woody stems go into the green bin for the council composting system.

Seems I've been mislead by google - Shinings Cranesbill is a native plant so technically not a weed and not invasive. So I can chuck that in the council green bin.
Title: Re: what to do with pernicious weeds?
Post by: MikeFromLFE on June 02, 2016, 03:18:35 pm
I've got far too much couch grass at the allotment - I'm having a go at sticking the roots in water for about 6-8 weeks. Apparently the juice makes a good feed, and the mush will be fine to compost. 3 weeks in and it stinks to high heaven.
(At home it's fine to put it in the council bin - but in the garden it's mainly bindweed.

I wonder if 'invasive' from the OP's council means stuff like Japanese Knoweed?)


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Title: Re: what to do with pernicious weeds?
Post by: caerau on June 02, 2016, 03:26:44 pm
Invasive could cover just about anything that's a weed - a weed is kind of invasive by definition surely.


Presumably anything that can regrow from just a small piece of root or is what they mean I guess.
Title: Re: what to do with pernicious weeds?
Post by: fboab on June 02, 2016, 05:27:56 pm
York defines invasive as:
 
Quote
Invasive weeds such as Japanese knotweed, Giant hogweed and Ragwort (seek advice on safe disposal from the Environment Agency)
The first two are non-native and the third is toxic to livestock.

I don't think ground elder, couch grass or bindweeds count.
Title: Re: what to do with pernicious weeds?
Post by: caerau on June 02, 2016, 06:24:16 pm
Well quite - since they are native withholding them from compost heaps is not going to stop them.
Title: Re: what to do with pernicious weeds?
Post by: Aunt Maud on June 03, 2016, 05:34:16 am
Ragwort is a vital food plant for the exceptionally beautiful Cinnabar moth.
Title: Re: what to do with pernicious weeds?
Post by: Pancho on June 03, 2016, 12:55:29 pm
Ragwort is a vital food plant for the exceptionally beautiful Cinnabar moth.

Is that the red & black moth? I find loads of these - probably because we're surrounded by ragwort, then.
Title: Re: what to do with pernicious weeds?
Post by: Aunt Maud on June 03, 2016, 08:42:29 pm
That's the one.
Title: Re: what to do with pernicious weeds?
Post by: rogerzilla on June 03, 2016, 09:52:39 pm
I've just discovered that the eurocrats are trying to ban glyphosate for home use.  AAAGH!  VOTE:LEAVE!
Title: Re: what to do with pernicious weeds?
Post by: Ham on June 04, 2016, 07:10:40 am
I've just discovered that the eurocrats are trying to ban glyphosate for home use.  AAAGH!  VOTE:LEAVE!

Yeah, round up the usual suspects  ;D
Title: Re: what to do with pernicious weeds?
Post by: ElyDave on June 04, 2016, 07:34:15 am
Glyphosate on the pernicious weeds, cause I can never guarantee getting all the root, particularly thistles and bindweed in my garden,

As for composting, home heaps generally don't get hot enough to deal with those and sterilise them completely.  I tend to mix shredded office paper wate in mine when I have lots of grass.
Title: Re: what to do with pernicious weeds?
Post by: Aunt Maud on June 05, 2016, 06:02:34 am
If you can find a barrow load of wood chip, grab it, as it makes a compost heap heat up nicely.
Title: Re: what to do with pernicious weeds?
Post by: Legs on June 06, 2016, 09:01:09 am
I've just discovered that the eurocrats are trying to ban glyphosate for home use.  AAAGH!  VOTE:LEAVE!
Or stock up...
Title: Re: what to do with pernicious weeds?
Post by: mrcharly-YHT on June 09, 2016, 09:56:46 am
I've just discovered that the eurocrats are trying to ban glyphosate for home use.  AAAGH!  VOTE:LEAVE!
Our home-grown Green Party are one of the main campaigners against glyphosate, as are 38degrees, etc, etc.

I'm really not sure what evidence is that it is so terrible. All weed killers are toxins.
Title: Re: what to do with pernicious weeds?
Post by: Aunt Maud on June 09, 2016, 06:56:45 pm
Denmark has a problem with glyphosate in the drinking water and has had to close many local drinking water treatment plants as a result.
Title: Re: what to do with pernicious weeds?
Post by: mrcharly-YHT on June 10, 2016, 03:03:16 pm
Now in all my googling I didn't find any mention of that.
Must have been a odd misuse that lead to that happening.

Glyphosate shouldn't be used near water - it is toxic for amphibians - and breaks down relatively quickly in soil.
I'm a "Don't spray anything in my garden" sort of gardener, but compared to other weedkillers, glyphosate is pretty benign. I guess that low toxicity can easily lead to gross misuse.

We used to use stuff like 2 4 5-T on the farm (very likely contributing to the common bone cancers in the farming community) and just about bathe in DDT. Horrendous stuff.
Title: Re: what to do with pernicious weeds?
Post by: Aunt Maud on June 10, 2016, 04:11:10 pm
Now in all my googling I didn't find any mention of that.
Must have been a odd misuse that lead to that happening.


https://www.information.dk/telegram/2011/01/plantegift-siver-dansk-grundvand

https://ing.dk/artikel/eksperter-slar-alarm-sprojtegifte-truer-grundvandet-121483

Sorry but it's all in Danish of course.
Title: Re: what to do with pernicious weeds?
Post by: mrcharly-YHT on June 14, 2016, 02:14:39 pm
I can't get to the second one, it won't load.

Do you have any inkling as to how it got there? Give that glyphosate breaks down fast in soil, I'm going with either massive over use (one consequence of 'roundup ready GMO crops) or aerial spraying.
Title: Re: what to do with pernicious weeds?
Post by: fboab on June 14, 2016, 08:48:23 pm
Breakdown is up to 174 days, so not *that* fast.
Watercourse contamination is usually because it's adsorbed in colloidal matter.

(It sticks to silts and is washed out with the soil)
Title: Re: what to do with pernicious weeds?
Post by: mrcharly-YHT on June 16, 2016, 08:38:08 am
Hmm - the labels and other documentation don't make that clear. <sigh> it's almost like Monsanto aren't being honest.
Title: Re: what to do with pernicious weeds?
Post by: fboab on June 16, 2016, 10:19:51 am
It's out of patent now, so not just Monsanto.
As weed killers and desiccants go, it's pretty innocuous. At least that's my memory of it - a long time since I did any agronomy.
Title: Re: what to do with pernicious weeds?
Post by: fruitcake on June 16, 2016, 10:45:33 pm
We have a few weeds growing in our garden and I pull as much as possible (ground elder, some weird thing with red stems that spreads, brambles).

Garden is small, so I can't just pile them in a corner. What to do with this stuff when I pull it out?

Depending on how small the garden is, you might have space to drown the weeds, by putting them under a couple of house bricks in a water butt for a fortnight. Many plants that can survive drying will be killed by immersion.
Title: Re: what to do with pernicious weeds?
Post by: mrcharly-YHT on June 17, 2016, 09:00:07 am
Interesting idea - I've not heard of that one. Makes sense.
Title: Re: what to do with pernicious weeds?
Post by: Legs on June 17, 2016, 01:38:43 pm
Isn't that going to smell a bit grim? :sick:
Title: Re: what to do with pernicious weeds?
Post by: fruitcake on June 17, 2016, 02:19:15 pm
You could stick the lid on the water butt, and drain off the water before it gets smelly.
Title: Re: what to do with pernicious weeds?
Post by: Aunt Maud on June 17, 2016, 06:56:17 pm
I can't get to the second one, it won't load.

Do you have any inkling as to how it got there? Give that glyphosate breaks down fast in soil, I'm going with either massive over use (one consequence of 'roundup ready GMO crops) or aerial spraying.

Overuse. The Danes like to keep things tidy.......and I mean TIDY.
Title: Re: what to do with pernicious weeds?
Post by: MikeFromLFE on June 18, 2016, 09:17:34 pm
Isn't that going to smell a bit grim? :sick:
See my earlier post on this matter - the two tubs are now about 6 weeks old, and the stink has now subsided a fair bit, so maybe that means that the decomposition is lessening, and I've now got a disgusting mush ready to go on the compost heap.
I'm leaving it another week or so, and will report back - if nothing crawls out of the tub to get me........
Title: Re: what to do with pernicious weeds?
Post by: fruitcake on June 18, 2016, 09:48:22 pm
If the objective is to destroy the weeds by rupturing the plant cell walls, the water in the container can be changed periodically. A water butt with a tap will make this easy. Drain it off then let the rainfall fill it up again.
Title: Re: what to do with pernicious weeds?
Post by: MikeFromLFE on June 19, 2016, 10:02:03 am
'It is said' that the disgusting fluid remaining once the mushing has Thames place is an excellent liquid feed. I think I'd prefer the convenience of the water butt method and forgo the smell and feed!
Title: Re: what to do with pernicious weeds?
Post by: mrcharly-YHT on June 19, 2016, 10:04:03 am
I can't get to the second one, it won't load.

Do you have any inkling as to how it got there? Give that glyphosate breaks down fast in soil, I'm going with either massive over use (one consequence of 'roundup ready GMO crops) or aerial spraying.

Overuse. The Danes like to keep things tidy.......and I mean TIDY.
I like a garden that looks like if you tripped and fell, you'd never come out alive.
Title: Re: what to do with pernicious weeds?
Post by: MikeFromLFE on June 20, 2016, 06:05:37 pm
'It is said' that the disgusting fluid remaining once the mushing has taken place is an excellent liquid feed. I think I'd prefer the convenience of the water butt method and forgo the smell and feed!



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Title: Re: what to do with pernicious weeds?
Post by: MikeFromLFE on July 03, 2016, 08:20:16 am
I emptied one of the tubs that had been sitting full of weeds and water.
It was vile. The sink was dreadful, but more to the point, six weeks later and I don't think that everything had completely broken down.
One thing I hadn't taken into account (duh!) was the weight of the tub.
It an experiment I won't be repeating, but I've still got two more tubs too deal with. And the old tubs to wash out.

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Title: Re: what to do with pernicious weeds?
Post by: Ham on August 16, 2016, 11:47:33 pm
I'm contemplating re-purposing a patio heater gas bottle as a propane weed burner. While perennials roots aren't going to be hit in one go, it seems as if it might be very effective at killing anything the flame can touch, apparently by boiling the cells, not burning to deth. Anyone else tried?
Title: Re: what to do with pernicious weeds?
Post by: Bledlow on August 17, 2016, 01:30:07 pm
The immersion technique described above is recommended by eco-minded professionals who don't like throwing away organic matter.
Title: Re: what to do with pernicious weeds?
Post by: Quisling on October 18, 2016, 11:12:23 am
The immersion technique described above is recommended by eco-minded professionals who don't like throwing away organic matter.

Yes, we have a "ferti-butt" to create liquid feed from anything that doesn't go on a fire.  We throw in all sorts of stuff like the daggy wool from the sheep botties and various pernicious weeds.  However, with a large garden and a wood burning stove there is a merit order for treating arisings:

Soft stuff/not pernicious = compost.  Two large heaps, each rotted for current year + next year (when we grow squashes and courgettes directly on the rotting heap)
Straightish sticks = shredder, with shreddings used on the veg patch paths
Twisty sticks/bramble/pernicious stuff = fire. Ash goes on veg patch.
Decent branches = firewood for wood burning stove. Ash goes on veg patch.
Travelling religion salemen = fire. Ash is jumped on and encased in concrete before sending to a deep underground repository for a million years.

Nothing that originated in the garden generally leaves site, although we have the space to deal with this. Everything is a resource.