Yet Another Cycling Forum

General Category => Audax => PBP 2019 => Topic started by: Somnolent on March 01, 2018, 09:31:06 pm

Title: PBP 2019 Qualifiers.
Post by: Somnolent on March 01, 2018, 09:31:06 pm
The windows in which qualifying BRM events in the UK have now been published at http://www.aukweb.net/events/pbp/

Qualifying events will be show in the Calendar on the AUK website (http://www.aukweb.net/events/?From=01%2F03%2F2018&To=24&Days=&Category=BRM&Dist_min=&Dist_max=&Aaa=&Region=) highlighted in pink and with the notation BRM [PBP].   

And yes - that is a shameless plug in there for those who care to go looking.  There's only one so far   ;D.
Title: Re: PBP 2019 Qualifiers.
Post by: halhorner on March 02, 2018, 09:32:55 am
Thanks.
So what’s the difference between a BRM and a BRM (PBP).
Was planning to attempt The Buzzard or Wander Wye as a pre-qualifier 600 but note they are ‘only’ categorised as BRM...
Cheers
Title: Re: PBP 2019 Qualifiers.
Post by: whosatthewheel on March 02, 2018, 09:44:11 am
Thanks.
So what’s the difference between a BRM and a BRM (PBP).
Was planning to attempt The Buzzard or Wander Wye as a pre-qualifier 600 but note they are ‘only’ categorised as BRM...
Cheers

I think he is referring to qualifying events for 2019 and NOT to pre-qualifying events for 2018. Any BRM within the correct time window in 2019 will be a BRM PBP. Some BRM will be out of the qualifying window (i.e. too early or too late).

Equally, any BRM in 2018 should be good enough to get access to a set pre-registration date
Title: Re: PBP 2019 Qualifiers.
Post by: jsabine on March 02, 2018, 09:50:01 am
Any BRM event you ride before 31/10/18 can be used to qualify for pre-registration - sign up from Jan 2019 to guarantee your place, then complete your registration by July.

In order to complete your registration, you must ride BRM events making up an SR series between 01/11/18 and June 2019. UK events will be marked in the calendar as Somnolent says, but if you ride events abroad you'll be able to register using them too if you want.
Title: Re: PBP 2019 Qualifiers.
Post by: whosatthewheel on March 02, 2018, 10:02:18 am

In order to complete your registration, you must ride BRM events making up an SR series between 01/11/18 and June 2019.

This is incorrect... these are the dates

200km: Saturday 12th January - Sunday 28th April
300km: Saturday 16th March - Sunday 26th May
400km: Saturday 13th April - Sunday 2nd June
600km: Saturday 4th May - Sunday 23rd June
Title: Re: PBP 2019 Qualifiers.
Post by: Ivo on March 02, 2018, 10:28:58 am

In order to complete your registration, you must ride BRM events making up an SR series between 01/11/18 and June 2019.

This is incorrect... these are the dates

200km: Saturday 12th January - Sunday 28th April
300km: Saturday 16th March - Sunday 26th May
400km: Saturday 13th April - Sunday 2nd June
600km: Saturday 4th May - Sunday 23rd June

UK dates I presume.
Title: Re: PBP 2019 Qualifiers.
Post by: whosatthewheel on March 02, 2018, 10:54:55 am

In order to complete your registration, you must ride BRM events making up an SR series between 01/11/18 and June 2019.

This is incorrect... these are the dates

200km: Saturday 12th January - Sunday 28th April
300km: Saturday 16th March - Sunday 26th May
400km: Saturday 13th April - Sunday 2nd June
600km: Saturday 4th May - Sunday 23rd June

UK dates I presume.

they are taken from AUK website, so I would say yes.
Title: Re: PBP 2019 Qualifiers.
Post by: Somnolent on March 02, 2018, 11:44:48 am

In order to complete your registration, you must ride BRM events making up an SR series between 01/11/18 and June 2019.

This is incorrect... these are the dates

200km: Saturday 12th January - Sunday 28th April
300km: Saturday 16th March - Sunday 26th May
400km: Saturday 13th April - Sunday 2nd June
600km: Saturday 4th May - Sunday 23rd June

UK dates I presume.

Yes - these are the dates that apply in the UK.
Other countries may use slightly different dates ranges.

Thanks.
So what’s the difference between a BRM and a BRM (PBP).?

None.
Just that for convenience and ease of identification all 2019 AUK rides that can be used as qualifiers are marked with the [PBP]
There is no special marking on the 2018 BRMs that you can use as pre-qualifiers.
Title: Re: PBP 2019 Qualifiers.
Post by: Ivo on March 02, 2018, 12:00:58 pm

In order to complete your registration, you must ride BRM events making up an SR series between 01/11/18 and June 2019.

This is incorrect... these are the dates

200km: Saturday 12th January - Sunday 28th April
300km: Saturday 16th March - Sunday 26th May
400km: Saturday 13th April - Sunday 2nd June
600km: Saturday 4th May - Sunday 23rd June

UK dates I presume.

Yes - these are the dates that apply in the UK.
Other countries may use slightly different dates ranges.


Indeed. And since there are quite a lot of non UK randonneurs on YACF this is an important detail.
The ACP specified a date range for France in the PBP 2019 leaflet distributed in Paris last month. But these timeframes are only advisory outside of France, the local organisations may deviate from them.
Title: Re: PBP 2019 Qualifiers.
Post by: jsabine on March 02, 2018, 02:06:55 pm

In order to complete your registration, you must ride BRM events making up an SR series between 01/11/18 and June 2019.

This is incorrect... these are the dates

200km: Saturday 12th January - Sunday 28th April
300km: Saturday 16th March - Sunday 26th May
400km: Saturday 13th April - Sunday 2nd June
600km: Saturday 4th May - Sunday 23rd June

No it's not.

The dates you quote are the ones that AUK has agreed with ACP as the windows to run UK qualifiers.

BRMs ridden - perhaps in other countries - in the first 8 months or so of the 2018/19 ACP season will be fine for you as a rider seeking qualification. (At any rate, that's what the 2015 rules (http://www.paris-brest-paris.org/index2.php?lang=en&cat=randonnee&page=reglement) said - 2019 ones aren't published yet ...)
Title: Re: PBP 2019 Qualifiers.
Post by: LittleWheelsandBig on March 02, 2018, 04:33:49 pm
For instance, Audax Oz PBP qualifying runs from 01/11/18. A Brit on holiday in Oz could use an Aussie brevet as a PBP qualifier. It is not uncommon for some Aussies (and other nationalities) to qualify for PBP before Christmas. Of course, those early qualifying folk tend to have trouble maintaining sufficient long distance fitness until late August the following year...
Title: Re: PBP 2019 Qualifiers.
Post by: whosatthewheel on March 02, 2018, 04:42:44 pm
yeahright, but the poster who enquired first wanted to ride the Buzzard, so is it too much to assume he is UK based and therefore the relevant dates and info he needs are the AUK ones?

Also, the OP has provided link to AUK pages, so I was under the impression this was a (parochial as you like) UK/AUK based discussion
Title: Re: PBP 2019 Qualifiers.
Post by: Somnolent on March 02, 2018, 05:45:56 pm
The web page does specify that the above referenced windows are those for UK rides.
For the sake of completeness, a note has been added that other countries may have different dates.
Title: Re: PBP 2019 Qualifiers.
Post by: jsabine on March 02, 2018, 08:14:40 pm
yeahright, but the poster who enquired first wanted to ride the Buzzard, so is it too much to assume he is UK based and therefore the relevant dates and info he needs are the AUK ones?


The 'poster who enquired first' was asking about this year's Buzzard as a prequalifier, for which next year's dates are somewhat less than relevant.

Quote
Also, the OP has provided link to AUK pages, so I was under the impression this was a (parochial as you like) UK/AUK based discussion

Feel free to be as parochial as *you* like. Other riders may not have such limited horizons.

(Seriously, without intending to be bitchy, it's not uncommon to use a non-UK ride as a qualifier. It is wholly relevant to reassure folk that, if the rules are the same in 2019 as they were in 2015, as long as it's in the right ACP season it will count. The ACP season kicks off at the start of November, unlike the AUK one which runs from October.)

Title: Re: PBP 2019 Qualifiers.
Post by: Ivo on March 02, 2018, 08:43:09 pm
By now YACF has grown into a cycling site with a rather wide audience. So when the information can be critical for someones PBP qualification it's good to mention if a certain rule is UK specific or general.
You could blame LEL for this but I wouldn't call it 'blaming' then ;).
Title: Re: PBP 2019 Qualifiers.
Post by: TigaSefi on March 05, 2018, 11:54:58 pm
Christ! Those dates means the 400 and 600 will be quickly filled up in 2019!! Fingers at the ready!
Title: Re: PBP 2019 Qualifiers.
Post by: JohnL on March 06, 2018, 07:12:20 am
Christ! Those dates means the 400 and 600 will be quickly filled up in 2019!! Fingers at the ready!

Indeed. With some of these longer riders becoming more popular (LWL for example) is there a way of limiting initial entries to those wishing to qualify?

John
Title: Re: PBP 2019 Qualifiers.
Post by: thing1 on March 06, 2018, 08:23:05 am
[

Indeed. With some of these longer riders becoming more popular (LWL for example) is there a way of limiting initial entries to those wishing to qualify?

Like PBP itself, limit early doors entries to those with the longest (UK) validated ride the previous year?
It'd be the best chance I'd ever have of getting to ride bcm again :)
Title: Re: PBP 2019 Qualifiers.
Post by: frankly frankie on March 06, 2018, 09:34:26 am
You could equally say that entry priority for a 600 should be given to those who've never ridden one before.
Title: Re: PBP 2019 Qualifiers.
Post by: Bairn Again on March 06, 2018, 09:42:28 am
in 2015 I mistakenly believed that my York Arrow would count as a 400 for pre qualifying.  I therefore had to rely on my 300 for pre qualifying and got a place at PBP no problem. 

Its traditional that some folk get themselves in a flap about this thinking that participation in PBP requires them to do a 1000km event the year before, which of course is daft.

I got caught up in this kind of excitement in 2007 and went to Majorca to ride both a 400 and 600 in early May, before the UK window for 600km qualifiers was open.

It wasn't necessary but I believe I was one of the first PBP qualifiers from the northern hemisphere.       

As an organiser who plans to both (a) ride PBP and (b) run a "local" 600km, I believe that my best ways of mitigate against people entering early with no firm intention to ride are (i) the event entry fee and (ii) not opening the event to entries until around 12 weeks beforehand.       
Title: Re: PBP 2019 Qualifiers.
Post by: Ivo on March 06, 2018, 10:32:15 am
The great panic was in 1999. A number of riders opted for doing their 400 and/or 600 abroad to be sure of a spot on a 600.
So nothing new ;).
Title: Re: PBP 2019 Qualifiers.
Post by: whosatthewheel on March 06, 2018, 11:03:16 am
[

Indeed. With some of these longer riders becoming more popular (LWL for example) is there a way of limiting initial entries to those wishing to qualify?

Like PBP itself, limit early doors entries to those with the longest (UK) validated ride the previous year?
It'd be the best chance I'd ever have of getting to ride bcm again :)

There is a moderate early financial commitment, but other than that, entering BCM is pretty straightforward... you've got well over a month to send in your paperwork.
Other rides sell out in days or hours, but not BCM
Title: Re: PBP 2019 Qualifiers.
Post by: Bianchi Boy on March 06, 2018, 12:56:44 pm
[

Indeed. With some of these longer riders becoming more popular (LWL for example) is there a way of limiting initial entries to those wishing to qualify?

Like PBP itself, limit early doors entries to those with the longest (UK) validated ride the previous year?
It'd be the best chance I'd ever have of getting to ride bcm again :)

There is a moderate early financial commitment, but other than that, entering BCM is pretty straightforward... you've got well over a month to send in your paperwork.
Other rides sell out in days or hours, but not BCM
The BCM will most likely be a postal entry. So it will sell out in snal mail time.....

Steve
Title: Re: PBP 2019 Qualifiers.
Post by: whosatthewheel on March 06, 2018, 01:23:49 pm
Part of me would like to consider PBP next year, but there is a lot to organise and a lot of time is needed, with the qualifiers and all. It seems a lot of things would need to fall into place and other plans and holidays would suffer as a result.
I'm not even sure it's for me... distance and sleep deprivation aside, I am not a big fan of crowds and queues.

The alternative plan is to ride something big in the UK... I keep looking at the Pendle 600  :thumbsup:  which won't be on many's bucket list as a PBP qualifier...  ;D
Title: Re: PBP 2019 Qualifiers.
Post by: rob on March 06, 2018, 02:22:48 pm
Part of me would like to consider PBP next year, but there is a lot to organise and a lot of time is needed, with the qualifiers and all. It seems a lot of things would need to fall into place and other plans and holidays would suffer as a result.
I'm not even sure it's for me... distance and sleep deprivation aside, I am not a big fan of crowds and queues.

The alternative plan is to ride something big in the UK... I keep looking at the Pendle 600  :thumbsup:  which won't be on many's bucket list as a PBP qualifier...  ;D

I only took 5 days leave last year, driving there and back.   The 200 & 300 are day rides.   The 400, too, if you give it some welly.   So it's just one weekend away.

I got round the event itself with little queueing and 2 sleep breaks and staying ahead of the bulge.
 
Title: Re: PBP 2019 Qualifiers.
Post by: GPS on March 06, 2018, 02:34:46 pm
Part of me would like to consider PBP next year, but there is a lot to organise and a lot of time is needed, with the qualifiers and all. It seems a lot of things would need to fall into place and other plans and holidays would suffer as a result.
I'm not even sure it's for me... distance and sleep deprivation aside, I am not a big fan of crowds and queues.

It's worth the effort - even if you only do it once. It's a bizarre experience to be on the road with so many like-minded riders from all over the World whilst being applauded and encouraged by bystanders and even drivers.

The crowds and queues are overdone. Although, you can also meet some interesting folk whilst waiting for food or for cards to be stamped - and hear some amusing conversations.
Title: Re: PBP 2019 Qualifiers.
Post by: frankly frankie on March 06, 2018, 02:51:43 pm
It is possible (though not easy) to ride PBP 95% alone with no other cyclists in sight, and empty controls.  Pretty joyless mind you. 
The trick is to start with the fast group and drop off the back (that's the easy bit) then maintain a 'fast group' sort of pace to stay ahead of the next group (which I think is only 2 hours behind).  The true fast riders bounce most of the controls so when you get there they are just empty - more controllers than riders when I did this - and these empty controls help you keep your distance ahead of the bulge.
Title: Re: PBP 2019 Qualifiers.
Post by: Zed43 on March 06, 2018, 03:09:32 pm
I got round the event itself with little queueing and 2 sleep breaks and staying ahead of the bulge.
When did you start (80h/84h/90h group, which start time)? Also, does the pre-qualification allow you to choose a specific start time?
Title: Re: PBP 2019 Qualifiers.
Post by: Manotea on March 06, 2018, 03:24:04 pm
Francis is clearly a fast rider... not truely fast, of course, but "fast". Alas, most of us by definition will be somewhere 'in the bulge'... and if you're not able to maintain a good tempo you will likely spend a lot of time on your own, actually or virtually. It's also a fact universally acknowledged that it's a bad idea to eat at controls, as the queues are long and the food rather uninspiring and costly. There is much more fun to be had at cafes and shops on route. Though the route itself isn't particularly inspiring.

Apart from that it's great. :)

I'd super deffo opt for the 84hr/Morning depart, assuming its offered. The first ~30hrs of the 90hr evening depart (which means you'll likely have been awake around 40hrs before sleeping on the second night) is a killer. A morning start without the extended queuing to depart is well worth swapping for an extra 6 hours being knackered on the road. YMMV of course.
Title: Re: PBP 2019 Qualifiers.
Post by: rob on March 06, 2018, 03:39:19 pm
I got round the event itself with little queueing and 2 sleep breaks and staying ahead of the bulge.
When did you start (80h/84h/90h group, which start time)? Also, does the pre-qualification allow you to choose a specific start time?

I went in one of the first 90hr groups.   I'm not fast enough to hang onto the 80hr group.   By not faffing much I ended up in a pretty blissful little bubble between the 80hr and 90hr groups allowing for quick passage through controls and beds at Carhaix and Fougeres.

When you pre-register you can choose your start time.   It's not locked down, though, and you can change again when you secure your place after qualification.
Title: Re: PBP 2019 Qualifiers.
Post by: Ian H on March 06, 2018, 04:07:15 pm
It is possible (though not easy) to ride PBP 95% alone with no other cyclists in sight, and empty controls.  Pretty joyless mind you. 
The trick is to start with the fast group and drop off the back (that's the easy bit) then maintain a 'fast group' sort of pace to stay ahead of the next group (which I think is only 2 hours behind).  The true fast riders bounce most of the controls so when you get there they are just empty - more controllers than riders when I did this - and these empty controls help you keep your distance ahead of the bulge.

I did something like that in 2007 2011.  If nothing else I managed to avoid the storm that caught both slower and faster riders.

[year corrected]
Title: Re: PBP 2019 Qualifiers.
Post by: BobScarle on March 06, 2018, 04:15:36 pm
I'm beginning to get a little worried, even at this early stage. I hope to ride a 400 and a 600 this year so should by all accounts be ok for pre-registration. What concerns me is the qualification and rides selling out before I have a chance to enter. I guess it means being a little more organised making sure I am there when entries open.
Title: Re: PBP 2019 Qualifiers.
Post by: beans dear wonk on March 06, 2018, 06:30:05 pm
It will be my first time attempting PBP qualification next year.  Can the qualification rides be completed as DIY's or using Perms? That would make family/cycling life so much smoother!
Title: Re: PBP 2019 Qualifiers.
Post by: LittleWheelsandBig on March 06, 2018, 06:31:31 pm
No, BRM calendar events only.
Title: Re: PBP 2019 Qualifiers.
Post by: mattc on March 06, 2018, 08:41:04 pm
I'm beginning to get a little worried, even at this early stage. I hope to ride a 400 and a 600 this year so should by all accounts be ok for pre-registration. What concerns me is the qualification and rides selling out before I have a chance to enter. I guess it means being a little more organised making sure I am there when entries open.
In the UK it's only the presitgious 4/600s that sell out, and even then hardly any do so in a 48-hour frenzy.  (and if you ride a 400 this year, you'll get a place on PBP2019).

Honestly, getting fit and getting your kit sorted is the more complex issue (and you sound like you're tackling that this year  :thumbsup: )
Title: Re: PBP 2019 Qualifiers.
Post by: Ivo on March 06, 2018, 09:40:21 pm
For preparation purposes it's a good idea to do one of your qualifiers or pre qualifiers in France. Just to get used to riding in France.
Title: Re: PBP 2019 Qualifiers.
Post by: BobScarle on March 06, 2018, 10:14:27 pm
For preparation purposes it's a good idea to do one of your qualifiers or pre qualifiers in France. Just to get used to riding in France.

Great idea, I hadn't even considered that. Any suggestions?
Title: Re: PBP 2019 Qualifiers.
Post by: LittleWheelsandBig on March 06, 2018, 10:24:09 pm
Whichever is the easiest for you to get to. The majority of French BRMs are line entry and equivalent to X-rated British events.
Title: Re: PBP 2019 Qualifiers.
Post by: Flahute on March 07, 2018, 05:45:48 am
For preparation purposes it's a good idea to do one of your qualifiers or pre qualifiers in France. Just to get used to riding in France.

Ah yes, getting used to riding in France. Great routes, a lack of traffic density, polite drivers and route cards / maps that should win the Nobel Prize for literature  (fiction category).

I live cheese-side and am a semi regular Brevet rider. Mostly they follow a similar format; Whacky races at the start, wild eyes and straight into tempo/threshold effort (not for me, I'm Flahute {cough} ) Big groups survival of the fittest type stuff, quickly breaking down into dispersed pockets of resistance. Long lunches with wine followed by a retreat from Stallingrad re-enactment, bodies at the roadside, increasing in number the closer to arrivee. Of course it's all smiles and nonchalance at the end, usually followed by a sample of the local delicacy ... andouille anyone ?

I'm not far from the PBP route and my hamlet are already making plans to turnout to watch me, so no pressure, noooo.. none at all.

I love it, Vive La France !

p.s. My 2018 pre-qualifier is the BCM ...
Title: Re: PBP 2019 Qualifiers.
Post by: Ivo on March 07, 2018, 09:05:56 am
For preparation purposes it's a good idea to do one of your qualifiers or pre qualifiers in France. Just to get used to riding in France.

Great idea, I hadn't even considered that. Any suggestions?

CC Orchies is a good club and organises a lot of rides. They are quite near Lille so it's easy to use the Eurostar (if you travel via London).
The whole north-west of France is a strong hold of audaxing so you'll find plenty of rides. I'll do the Béthune one on sunday, just a quick bash headwind slog down to the Bay de Somme and an easy tailwind ride back to Béthune.
Title: Re: PBP 2019 Qualifiers.
Post by: frankly frankie on March 07, 2018, 09:57:08 am
Francis is clearly a fast rider...

Oh 'eck!  WAS.  Very much was.  :D :-[  And of course I was riding with being dragged along by Sheila at the time, and she was the reigning 3x National 24h champ.  That's why we foolishly opted for the Vedette start.
Title: Re: PBP 2019 Qualifiers.
Post by: whosatthewheel on March 07, 2018, 03:52:59 pm
... andouille anyone ?



Northern France cuisine is revolting... I have no specific objection to an offal sausage, but when it's cooked in cream and Dijon mustard it becomes ghastly. I never had a decent meal north of Paris
Title: Re: PBP 2019 Qualifiers.
Post by: simonp on March 07, 2018, 03:59:06 pm
It is possible (though not easy) to ride PBP 95% alone with no other cyclists in sight, and empty controls.  Pretty joyless mind you. 
The trick is to start with the fast group and drop off the back (that's the easy bit) then maintain a 'fast group' sort of pace to stay ahead of the next group (which I think is only 2 hours behind).  The true fast riders bounce most of the controls so when you get there they are just empty - more controllers than riders when I did this - and these empty controls help you keep your distance ahead of the bulge.

I managed to fall off the back of the 80h start group I was in after about 80km.

I had a fairly quiet several hours before I found a group to ride in overnight and spent a lot of my time just plodding along. The restaurant at Villaines on the way out was just me and about 5 helpers.


Title: Re: PBP 2019 Qualifiers.
Post by: Paul D on March 07, 2018, 04:56:06 pm
I'd super deffo opt for the 84hr/Morning depart, assuming its offered. The first ~30hrs of the 90hr evening depart (which means you'll likely have been awake around 40hrs before sleeping on the second night) is a killer. A morning start without the extended queuing to depart is well worth swapping for an extra 6 hours being knackered on the road. YMMV of course.

Conversely, having done the 84hr 5am start in 2011 I would not recommend it at all. Instead of adrenaline carrying you through the first night and carrying on until late evening on night 2, you're up at 3am to start at 5 so knackered by midnight, then a few hours sleep puts you on or behind the time limits for some extra stress the next day.

Couple that with the complete lack of atmosphere at the start and the first 100k, I'd definitely go for the 90hr if  you're a first timer.

Having done 90 and 84 previously I'm going to complete the set with an 80hr start next year and get a few extra hours of daylight riding before physical collapse on night 2.
Title: Re: PBP 2019 Qualifiers.
Post by: Manotea on March 07, 2018, 05:48:39 pm
So there we have it. MTFU. TINA.

After my 89hr effort of 2011 that was what I was planning to do in 2015 but in practice hardly rode at all that year, let alone enter PBP.

At least an 80hr start offers lots of scope for working your way through the field! :)
Title: Re: PBP 2019 Qualifiers.
Post by: frankly frankie on March 08, 2018, 09:39:05 am
It's a real shame they no longer offer a 'sensible' start time.  My first 2 PBPs were waaay back in 1983 and 87 and for those the 84h group had a 10am start (chasing the 90h group who had started at 4am, and with the vedettes on our tails starting at 4pm).  It was easy to get to Brest or even Carhaix returning, before needing a sleep stop, latter-day stories of the crushes at Loudeac sound nightmarish to me.  It was also mostly 'N' road riding which made the whole event a lot easier than I guess it now is.
Title: Re: PBP 2019 Qualifiers.
Post by: Ivo on March 08, 2018, 10:04:00 am
Well, the event changed a bit since the 80-ies. It's now way too busy for N-road bashing (and the N-roads are too busy for cycling anyway). Some of the control loactions haven't changed since my first paricipation in '95 when there were about half the number of participants as now. So overcrowding is a bigger issue nowadays. On the other hands, there are more informal places along the route now and I do expect even more extra support area's for 2019 (two of them already in 2015 which did a great job).
Title: Re: PBP 2019 Qualifiers.
Post by: Exit Stage Left on March 08, 2018, 10:24:34 am
It will be interesting to see how those who did LEL get on. There used to be a big difference between LEL and PBP, but that's narrowed.

PBP used to be the pinnacle of an Audax career, but there are plenty whose only encounter with Audax has been LEL. So the experience can now be reversed, with PBP qualifiers as the unknown factor.
Title: Re: PBP 2019 Qualifiers.
Post by: madcow on March 08, 2018, 10:27:37 am
Of course a lot of this could be avoided if ACP awarded the titles of Vedette, Randonneur or Tourist based on finishing time regardless of start time.

Title: Re: PBP 2019 Qualifiers.
Post by: Greenbank on March 08, 2018, 10:44:36 am
PBP used to be the pinnacle of an Audax career, but there are plenty whose only encounter with Audax has been LEL.

UK wide maybe but that's no great surprise.

I think it's still the case that more people finished the last PBP than have ever finished LEL.
Title: Re: PBP 2019 Qualifiers.
Post by: Exit Stage Left on March 08, 2018, 11:06:03 am


I think it's still the case that more people finished the last PBP than have ever finished LEL.

All who finished PBP had done an SR series. LEL finishers are the largest group which might not have had that grounding for a 1200km+ ride. Concerns about qualifiers in the past were from those with little experience. An LEL finish without Audax experience turns those concerns on their head.

It might be useful to gauge interest in PBP by finding out who is riding 400s and 600s this year to pre-qualify. Some sort of check-box at entry perhaps.
Title: Re: PBP 2019 Qualifiers.
Post by: Greenbank on March 08, 2018, 11:47:36 am
Ah, I see.

More interesting would be to work out just what proportion of LEL finishers (and entrants) did an SR (or similar in the past). I know there's plenty of anecdata about X and Y for whom it was their first Audax, etc, but some more solid stats may make 'interesting' reading.

I seem to remember that PBP had stats on finishers split up by their finishing times in their qualifying 600 and 400. Ah yes, p42 of https://www.paris-brest-paris.org/en/download/BROCHURE-GB.pdf (12.5MB)

(http://www.greenbank.org/misc/pbp2011.jpg)
Title: Re: PBP 2019 Qualifiers.
Post by: frankly frankie on March 08, 2018, 01:37:43 pm
Personally if I couldn't ride a qualifying 600 in 33h** I wouldn't enter PBP.  But that's because I like comfortable margins and had no wish to ever be anywhere near a cutoff time, and the more so if I had time and money invested in the project.
(** And that used to be AUK's advice, by the way, back in the mists of time - actually, aim to ride a 22h 400 before considering PBP.)
Title: Re: PBP 2019 Qualifiers.
Post by: Greenbank on March 08, 2018, 01:56:51 pm
Depends on how you deal with sleep deprivation, etc. I'm slow but steady so adding distance is not really a problem.

The only BRM 600 I've ridden I finished in 39h20 or so. The other BR 600s I finished were over 40h.

Don't think I've finished a 400 in under 26h either.

Had relatively little trouble on the one PBP and LEL I've done (finished both with a couple of hours spare and under 10h sleep on the way round).

Some people might get scared away by advice of "sub 33h 600 or sub 22h 400".
Title: Re: PBP 2019 Qualifiers.
Post by: Fidgetbuzz on March 08, 2018, 03:25:05 pm
Chipping in my pennorth here .. I am with Greenbank .. that guidance Francis came from years ago .. I suspect that the age profile now has more riders over 65 than in those days  .. and we are slow ,steady, understand our limitations .. and can when driven manage on less sleep. Ten years ago I might have done sub 22 on a 400 with a cat nap only but never sub 33 on a 600 .. any normal 200 is pencilled in at  10 hours .. so to be looking for three of those consecutively with no drop in speed and only 3 hours rest just not realistic for me.   I think that advice was not aimed at the older rider ..   slower but able to manage on less sleep . My experience says  if you can finish in around 39 hours on a 600 .. you have a sporting chance of a 89 hour 1200
Title: Re: PBP 2019 Qualifiers.
Post by: Graeme on March 08, 2018, 04:06:06 pm
I'm beginning to get a little worried, even at this early stage. I hope to ride a 400 and a 600 this year so should by all accounts be ok for pre-registration. What concerns me is the qualification and rides selling out before I have a chance to enter. I guess it means being a little more organised making sure I am there when entries open.

PBP isn't a reality for me in '19, so I'll be thinking carefully about what events I enter during the qualification window, and trying not to tie up a BRM place. I wouldn't be surprised if others took a similar approach - I'm sure you'll get a place in qualifying rides. :)
Title: Re: PBP 2019 Qualifiers.
Post by: Ian gaggiaport on March 08, 2018, 04:23:14 pm
I'd super deffo opt for the 84hr/Morning depart, assuming its offered. The first ~30hrs of the 90hr evening depart (which means you'll likely have been awake around 40hrs before sleeping on the second night) is a killer. A morning start without the extended queuing to depart is well worth swapping for an extra 6 hours being knackered on the road. YMMV of course.

Conversely, having done the 84hr 5am start in 2011 I would not recommend it at all. Instead of adrenaline carrying you through the first night and carrying on until late evening on night 2, you're up at 3am to start at 5 so knackered by midnight, then a few hours sleep puts you on or behind the time limits for some extra stress the next day.



Couple that with the complete lack of atmosphere at the start and the first 100k, I'd definitely go for the 90hr if  you're a first timer.

Having done 90 and 84 previously I'm going to complete the set with an 80hr start next year and get a few extra hours of daylight riding before physical collapse on night 2.

Your right the 80hr is daunting but even though I'm not a fast rider it's much easier than the 84.
The 84 was quite stressful
The 80 is easier because outward you are always with a fast peloton helping you along, the controls are empty and I also on the return I made full use of food at the all night cafes and unofficial sleep stops especially after Tinténiac.
Title: Re: PBP 2019 Qualifiers.
Post by: BobScarle on March 08, 2018, 04:41:33 pm
I'm beginning to get a little worried, even at this early stage. I hope to ride a 400 and a 600 this year so should by all accounts be ok for pre-registration. What concerns me is the qualification and rides selling out before I have a chance to enter. I guess it means being a little more organised making sure I am there when entries open.

PBP isn't a reality for me in '19, so I'll be thinking carefully about what events I enter during the qualification window, and trying not to tie up a BRM place. I wouldn't be surprised if others took a similar approach - I'm sure you'll get a place in qualifying rides. :)

Well I have just entered my first 600 (Wander Wye) so that will go a long way to telling me how well I can manage. I am, as I always am, full of self-doubt. I'll give it a bash then go on holiday and think about how it went.
Title: Re: PBP 2019 Qualifiers.
Post by: Fidgetbuzz on March 08, 2018, 05:06:39 pm
Well I have just entered my first 600 (Wander Wye) so that will go a long way to telling me how well I can manage. I am, as I always am, full of self-doubt. I'll give it a bash then go on holiday and think about how it went.

Is other experience helpful .. way back in 2007 aged 65 .. just started doing audax off no bike riding background.. decided to give PBP a crack .. first 400 ever was 7across .. then the 600 was Beast from the East .. hated it .. 39 hours .. fortunately Chris S said .. Rog you are qualified .. if you do not try it .. you will not try when you are 69 .. and you will never know whether you MIGHT have been able to finish in time..really good advice. So I did a SS 600 .. and was a tiny bit happier.  PBP finished in 88 odd .. and then 89 odd in 2011.. retired in 2015 at 1000 kms still just in time . 

Think about that Chris S advice .. I am so grateful that he got me try.
Title: Re: PBP 2019 Qualifiers.
Post by: paulworthington53 on March 08, 2018, 09:04:51 pm
On a slightly different subject, what's this "rider licence number" I keep reading about in the PBP brochure? 

They talk about homologation numbers - which are the numbers you get when a brevet is returned, and the rider affiliation which I presume means AUK membership but I'm not sure what they mean by licence number...
Title: Re: PBP 2019 Qualifiers.
Post by: Exit Stage Left on March 08, 2018, 09:40:44 pm
On a slightly different subject, what's this "rider licence number" I keep reading about in the PBP brochure? 

They talk about homologation numbers - which are the numbers you get when a brevet is returned, and the rider affiliation which I presume means AUK membership but I'm not sure what they mean by licence number...

That's your FFCT, FSGT or UFOLEP licence number of course.
Title: Re: PBP 2019 Qualifiers.
Post by: paulworthington53 on March 08, 2018, 09:47:17 pm

[/quote]

That's your FFCT, FSGT or UFOLEP licence number of course.
[/quote]

Is that required for forrin riders?  How does an Auk get one of those?
Title: Re: PBP 2019 Qualifiers.
Post by: Von Broad on March 08, 2018, 10:44:01 pm
Some people might get scared away by advice of "sub 33h 600 or sub 22h 400".

Yeah, it's rubbish. On the one hand it's 'sound' advice, but goodness sake, just do the qualifiers, get out there, and give it a whirl.
It might [could well be!] be tough as regards time limit, but you may not regret it either. Only one way to find out.
Title: Re: PBP 2019 Qualifiers.
Post by: Exit Stage Left on March 08, 2018, 10:46:23 pm



That's your FFCT, FSGT or UFOLEP licence number of course.


Is that required for forrin riders?  How does an Auk get one of those?

Prior to 2015 participants had to prove insurance. In 2015 insurance was arranged for everyone. However, French participants had to be members of the relevant bodies, although the insurance augmented their existing cover. So don't worry.

Quote
For your piece of mind, the organisers of PARIS BREST PARIS have made enquiries about our insurance cover during the event.
They have contacted the insurance companies on your behalf.
 Member of F.F.C.T.
Your are covered under the insurance taken out by your Federation (PETIT OR GRAND BRAQUET) or by your club.  Members of F.S.G.T. and U.F.O.L.E.P., other licensed participants
You can take advantage of the cover provided under the terms of your membership
  All those taking part
1) Cover has been subscribed to (contract n° V304148),
For F.F.C.T., F.S.G.T., and U.F.O.L.E.P. licence holders, this cover supplements the insurance provided under your licence, or provides it where there is none.
In the case of an accident :
- Emergency Transport and First Aid costs(non-refundable through the Welfare system) up to 400 € (euros)
        - Hospital costs ... - Repatriation costs (including those to Country of Origin) ...........................................
In the event of death :
- Repatriation of body (including those to Country of Origin) ........................................
In case of cancellation :
- Registration fees refund ...................................................................................................
2) In the event of a claim
* Necessitating repatriation (following an accident during the PBP) - You must if you hold a licence,
up to 4 000 € (euros) Reasonable Cost
Reasonable Cost
Reasonable Cost
  telephone, or have someone telephone for you, your federation who will explain what to do to be repatriated
- If you do not have repatriation cover with your licence or if you are not licensed
 phone, or have someone phone for you, MONDIAL ASSISTANCE (tel. n° +33 (0) 142 990 805)  quoting code - N° V304148
For acceptance, repatriation must be authorised or carried out by MODIAL ASSISTANCE.
* For a cancellation
- You must declare any event forcing him to cancel his PBP registration. This declaration has to be made within 5 working days, except in the case of force majeure, after he has become aware of this fact :
  either, directly on the website: www.mondial-assistance.fr
  or by telephone Monday to Friday, between 9 am and 6 pm at 01 42 99 03 95
* Other incidents
- You must, for thosetaking part who hold FFCT, FSGT, UFOLEP or any other licence, take the steps recommended by the appropriate licencing authority,
- If you are not licensed
 Cabinet GOMIS GARRIGUES Tel : +33(0)561 528 860 / 80 Allée des Demoiselles 31 400 TOULOUSE Please send full details of your claim : You should enclose any supporting documentation (your entry details to the
event, accident declaration form, medical certificates, invoices, witnesses’reports)
YOU MUST ALWAYS GIVE YOUR PBP COMPETITOR'S NUMBER AND YOUR FULL ADDRESS.
     

https://www.paris-brest-paris.org/download/Dossier_EN_PBP_2015.pdf


Title: Re: PBP 2019 Qualifiers.
Post by: Deano on March 08, 2018, 11:24:42 pm
I'm beginning to get a little worried, even at this early stage. I hope to ride a 400 and a 600 this year so should by all accounts be ok for pre-registration. What concerns me is the qualification and rides selling out before I have a chance to enter. I guess it means being a little more organised making sure I am there when entries open.

Panicking about the qualification rites is traditional, so you seem to be on the right track :)

I believe everyone who wanted a place in 2015 got one - of course, that may not be the same for 2019, but the official guidance of riding a BRM 400 in the year before will probably see you right.

PS I do offer a BRM 300, if you'd like to complete the set for pre-qualification: http://www.aukweb.net/events/detail/18-324/
Title: Re: PBP 2019 Qualifiers.
Post by: frankly frankie on March 09, 2018, 09:20:05 am
Some people might get scared away by advice of "sub 33h 600 or sub 22h 400".
Yeah, it's rubbish. On the one hand it's 'sound' advice, but goodness sake, just do the qualifiers, get out there, and give it a whirl.
It might [could well be!] be tough as regards time limit, but you may not regret it either. Only one way to find out.

It's not rubbish.  I don't need the experience of bobbling around 1200km on an 88h schedule to know that I wouldn't enjoy that one bit.  If I qualified with a 37h 600, I'd know that would be the likely outcome.
Everyone's different, of course.
Title: Re: PBP 2019 Qualifiers.
Post by: Ivo on March 09, 2018, 09:37:05 am
Some people might get scared away by advice of "sub 33h 600 or sub 22h 400".
Yeah, it's rubbish. On the one hand it's 'sound' advice, but goodness sake, just do the qualifiers, get out there, and give it a whirl.
It might [could well be!] be tough as regards time limit, but you may not regret it either. Only one way to find out.

It's not rubbish.  I don't need the experience of bobbling around 1200km on an 88h schedule to know that I wouldn't enjoy that one bit.  If I qualified with a 37h 600, I'd know that would be the likely outcome.
Everyone's different, of course.

An 88hour schedule would be luxury in my book. I tend to work on a 89h30 schedule and still enjoy it.
Title: Re: PBP 2019 Qualifiers.
Post by: StantheMan on March 09, 2018, 10:05:08 am
PBP2015 I rode 88h. Slept 1,5h (1+0,5). 600s I normally ride 38h without sleep. Ate mostly bread from cafe. No restaurants. I hope that I would be a little faster but no.
Title: Re: PBP 2019 Qualifiers.
Post by: Greenbank on March 09, 2018, 10:21:21 am
Everyone's different, of course.

That's the point, as a general guideline it is "rubbish" as plenty of people (including me) rode round up against the time limit most of the time but still had fun. If I'd read that and taken it seriously I may not have done PBP.

I can imagine that people who are used to being at the faster end of a ride and rarely caring out the time limit might not enjoy the idea of bouncing up against the time limit, but it's how the majority of people end up riding things like PBP.
Title: Re: PBP 2019 Qualifiers.
Post by: Karla on March 09, 2018, 10:36:02 am
I'm beginning to get a little worried, even at this early stage. I hope to ride a 400 and a 600 this year so should by all accounts be ok for pre-registration. What concerns me is the qualification and rides selling out before I have a chance to enter. I guess it means being a little more organised making sure I am there when entries open.

Panicking about the qualification rites is traditional, so you seem to be on the right track :)

I believe everyone who wanted a place in 2015 got one - of course, that may not be the same for 2019, but the official guidance of riding a BRM 400 in the year before will probably see you right.

PS I do offer a BRM 300, if you'd like to complete the set for pre-qualification: http://www.aukweb.net/events/detail/18-324/

Note to self: get back to Blighty by April 28th next year so I can ride my first qualifier.  Alternatively, look up qualifiers in SE Asia or South America.
Title: Re: PBP 2019 Qualifiers.
Post by: LittleWheelsandBig on March 09, 2018, 10:55:04 am
Or qualify with 4 x 600s. There is always somebody who waits until the last possible moment to decide to qualify for PBP.
Title: Re: PBP 2019 Qualifiers.
Post by: Ivo on March 09, 2018, 11:07:41 am
I'm beginning to get a little worried, even at this early stage. I hope to ride a 400 and a 600 this year so should by all accounts be ok for pre-registration. What concerns me is the qualification and rides selling out before I have a chance to enter. I guess it means being a little more organised making sure I am there when entries open.

Panicking about the qualification rites is traditional, so you seem to be on the right track :)

I believe everyone who wanted a place in 2015 got one - of course, that may not be the same for 2019, but the official guidance of riding a BRM 400 in the year before will probably see you right.

PS I do offer a BRM 300, if you'd like to complete the set for pre-qualification: http://www.aukweb.net/events/detail/18-324/

Note to self: get back to Blighty by April 28th next year so I can ride my first qualifier.  Alternatively, look up qualifiers in SE Asia or South America.

The alternative would be my first choice ;)
Title: Re: PBP 2019 Qualifiers.
Post by: grams on March 09, 2018, 11:13:07 am
Or qualify with 4 x 600s. There is always somebody who waits until the last possible moment to decide to qualify for PBP.

Ooh, is that allowed? If you've done no rides by the end of the 200 window in April can you just do two 300s in May?
Title: Re: PBP 2019 Qualifiers.
Post by: rob on March 09, 2018, 11:16:52 am
Or qualify with 4 x 600s. There is always somebody who waits until the last possible moment to decide to qualify for PBP.

Ooh, is that allowed? If you've done no rides by the end of the 200 window in April can you just do two 300s in May?

Had an old clubmate that worked at sea.   He did his 200 & 300 and then went off-shore for 6 weeks, returning to do 2 600s on consecutive weekends to qualify.
Title: Re: PBP 2019 Qualifiers.
Post by: Karla on March 09, 2018, 11:21:30 am
Or qualify with 4 x 600s. There is always somebody who waits until the last possible moment to decide to qualify for PBP.

So if I do over-distance rides then I'm allowed to leave them until the qualification deadlines for the longer distances?  Thanks, that's really useful. 
Title: Re: PBP 2019 Qualifiers.
Post by: Fidgetbuzz on March 09, 2018, 12:18:46 pm
Prior to 2015 participants had to prove insurance. In 2015 insurance was arranged for everyone. However, French participants had to be members of the relevant bodies, although the insurance augmented their existing cover. So don't worry.

I have severe reservations about this ..

when organising LEL 2013 I could not get any answer from any of the  PBP organisers about who provided their 2011 insurance.

When organising LEL 2017 .. UK insurers would NOT provide any cover for  any overseas resident, and I would be concerned that the same might well apply to a French insurance contract .

However if any AUK /UK resident has had a successful insurance claim for PBP 2015 .. I would be delighted to learn that the French did actually mean what they say.

My personal choice would be to organise standard travel cover for 7 days making sure that 3rd party cover was included
Title: Re: PBP 2019 Qualifiers.
Post by: Ian H on March 09, 2018, 01:10:05 pm
Or qualify with 4 x 600s. There is always somebody who waits until the last possible moment to decide to qualify for PBP.

So if I do over-distance rides then I'm allowed to leave them until the qualification deadlines for the longer distances?  Thanks, that's really useful.

The date windows are 'guidelines'.
Title: Re: PBP 2019 Qualifiers.
Post by: Karla on March 09, 2018, 01:17:37 pm
Good-oh  :thumbsup:

(https://i.imgflip.com/261rxr.jpg)
Title: Re: PBP 2019 Qualifiers.
Post by: psyclist on March 09, 2018, 01:29:53 pm
Or qualify with 4 x 600s. There is always somebody who waits until the last possible moment to decide to qualify for PBP.

So if I do over-distance rides then I'm allowed to leave them until the qualification deadlines for the longer distances?  Thanks, that's really useful.

The date windows are 'guidelines'.

On the AUK website the dates provided are very specific and appear to be the only dates when qualifying rides of each type can be ridden in the UK.
Title: Re: PBP 2019 Qualifiers.
Post by: Ian H on March 09, 2018, 01:33:20 pm

On the AUK website the dates provided are very specific and appear to be the only dates when qualifying rides of each type can be ridden in the UK.

That's how AUK implements ACP's guidelines.
Title: Re: PBP 2019 Qualifiers.
Post by: psyclist on March 09, 2018, 01:43:04 pm
So when riding UK qualifying rides, you need to adhere to those dates. That is my interpretation.

Although ACP may issue guidelines, the AUK dates are actually quite rigid and non-negotiable. Unless I am missing something.
Title: Re: PBP 2019 Qualifiers.
Post by: Ian H on March 09, 2018, 02:24:44 pm
So when riding UK qualifying rides, you need to adhere to those dates. That is my interpretation.

Although ACP may issue guidelines, the AUK dates are actually quite rigid and non-negotiable. Unless I am missing something.

You won't have a choice, because UK BRMs will only be available within the set dates.   
Title: Re: PBP 2019 Qualifiers.
Post by: Manotea on March 09, 2018, 03:14:32 pm
I'm sure there's an expression in latin to cover this.. reductio ad absurdum?

Title: Re: PBP 2019 Qualifiers.
Post by: Greenbank on March 09, 2018, 04:07:45 pm
So when riding UK qualifying rides, you need to adhere to those dates. That is my interpretation.

Although ACP may issue guidelines, the AUK dates are actually quite rigid and non-negotiable. Unless I am missing something.

You won't have a choice, because UK BRMs will only be available within the set dates.   

You do have a choice as AUK isn't the only choice for providing validating rides. Other countries that do Audax do exist, with different interpretations of the dates (including Australia which tends to do their qualifying rides in their summer, so late 2018 and early 2019).

Being able to substitute longer rides for shorter ones also blurs the windows (so to speak).
Title: Re: PBP 2019 Qualifiers.
Post by: Ivan on March 09, 2018, 04:36:14 pm
You won't have a choice, because UK BRMs will only be available within the set dates.

So if I request to organise a BRM 200 in June 2019 say, I'll be denied?
Title: Re: PBP 2019 Qualifiers.
Post by: mattc on March 09, 2018, 04:38:07 pm
You won't have a choice, because UK BRMs will only be available within the set dates.

So if I request to organise a BRM 200 in June 2019 say, I'll be denied?
Not at all - it just won't be listed as a PBP qualifier.
Title: Re: PBP 2019 Qualifiers.
Post by: Somnolent on March 09, 2018, 04:47:55 pm
So if I request to organise a BRM 200 in June 2019 say, I'll be denied?

No - just that if you organise a 200 between 12 January and 28 April 2019, you'll be encouraged to make it a BRM (and hence a qualifier) rather than have it as a BR, and similarly for the windows for the longer distances.
Title: Re: PBP 2019 Qualifiers.
Post by: Exit Stage Left on March 09, 2018, 05:29:10 pm
Prior to 2015 participants had to prove insurance. In 2015 insurance was arranged for everyone. However, French participants had to be members of the relevant bodies, although the insurance augmented their existing cover. So don't worry.

I have severe reservations about this ..

when organising LEL 2013 I could not get any answer from any of the  PBP organisers about who provided their 2011 insurance.

When organising LEL 2017 .. UK insurers would NOT provide any cover for  any UK resident, and I would be concerned that the same might well apply to a French insurance contract .

However if any AUK /UK resident has had a successful insurance claim for PBP 2015 .. I would be delighted to learn that the French did actually mean what they say.

My personal choice would be to organise standard travel cover for 7 days making sure that 3rd party cover was included

We were discussing the constant references to 'licences'. Which has to do with the membership arrangements of French sports organisations, the relevant ones here being the FFCT, FSGT and UFOLEP. They all provide insurance for their riders.

Those from outside France used to have to show that they had relevant insurance. The CTC were one provider who understood the situation. People can worry all they want about insurance, but they don't have to worry about licences.
Title: Re: PBP 2019 Qualifiers.
Post by: whosatthewheel on March 09, 2018, 07:03:35 pm

You won't have a choice, because UK BRMs will only be available within the set dates.

Really? Realistically 500 folks will head across the channel for PBP, out of a membership of over 7,000 and a pool of riders doing Audaxes which probably hits 5 figures.
So, overall, we are talking about 5% of the typical clientele needing to qualify for PBP... and for that, you say there won't be any BRM 300 after the 26th of May and nothing at all after the 23rd of June? REALLY?
Title: Re: PBP 2019 Qualifiers.
Post by: LittleWheelsandBig on March 09, 2018, 07:10:39 pm
Traditionally the British brevets outside their PBP qualifying periods are BRs, not BRMs. It didn't seem to cause too many problems in previous years.
Title: Re: PBP 2019 Qualifiers.
Post by: mattc on March 09, 2018, 07:17:56 pm

So when riding UK qualifying rides, you need to adhere to those dates. That is my interpretation.

Although ACP may issue guidelines, the AUK dates are actually quite rigid and non-negotiable. Unless I am missing something.

You won't have a choice, because UK BRMs will only be available within the set dates.   

Really? Realistically 500 folks will head across the channel for PBP, out of a membership of over 7,000 and a pool of riders doing Audaxes which probably hits 5 figures.
So, overall, we are talking about 5% of the typical clientele needing to qualify for PBP... and for that, you say there won't be any BRM 300 after the 26th of May and nothing at all after the 23rd of June? REALLY?
I think it's fairly clear that Ian - responding to psyclist's question about qualifying rides - was referring to UK qualifying rides. He was not referring to  ALL BRMs.

(You can look at 2015 - there were indeed 300k BRM's in July (not June). But they were not qualifying rides. Really. )
Title: Re: PBP 2019 Qualifiers.
Post by: Greenbank on March 09, 2018, 07:34:01 pm
You won't have a choice, because UK BRMs will only be available within the set dates.

So if I request to organise a BRM 200 in June 2019 say, I'll be denied?
Not at all - it just won't be listed as a PBP qualifier.

But such a theoretical ride could still be used to qualify for PBP though right? (Since ACP aren't so specific about when the qualifying rides occur, they only issue guidelines, hence Australia able to do their qualifying rides in their summer in late 2018/early 2019).

Unsurprisingly I can't remember the rules and cut off for entering the Brevet numbers into the ACP site to convert a pre-registration into a full registration from the one time I did it in 2011. What I do remember is that I'd entered 3 out of the 4 and then had to wait a bit for me to ride my 600 and then for the Brevet numbers to come through (under 2 weeks).
Title: Re: PBP 2019 Qualifiers.
Post by: Ian H on March 09, 2018, 07:53:15 pm
You won't have a choice, because UK BRMs will only be available within the set dates.

So if I request to organise a BRM 200 in June 2019 say, I'll be denied?
Not at all - it just won't be listed as a PBP qualifier.

But such a theoretical ride could still be used to qualify for PBP though right? (Since ACP aren't so specific about when the qualifying rides occur, they only issue guidelines, hence Australia able to do their qualifying rides in their summer in late 2018/early 2019).

Unsurprisingly I can't remember the rules and cut off for entering the Brevet numbers into the ACP site to convert a pre-registration into a full registration from the one time I did it in 2011. What I do remember is that I'd entered 3 out of the 4 and then had to wait a bit for me to ride my 600 and then for the Brevet numbers to come through (under 2 weeks).

"BRM PBP" is AUK's own tag.  I suspect that riding a BRM event (should there be one) outside the qualifying windows would still get you to Paris, but it might be wise not to count on it. 

As Matt kindly noted, I am obviously only talking about UK events.
Title: Re: PBP 2019 Qualifiers.
Post by: LittleWheelsandBig on March 09, 2018, 08:04:12 pm
The Aussies have an earlier start for their PBP qualifiers but the closing dates usually are fairly close to the European dates. I wouldn't count on a June 200 BRM getting you to PBP.
Title: Re: PBP 2019 Qualifiers.
Post by: Greenbank on March 09, 2018, 08:25:07 pm
Interestingly, from the 2015 regulations:-

http://www.paris-brest-paris.org/index2.php?lang=en&cat=randonnee&page=reglement

"
Registration Schedule

You can register as soon as you have completed at least three of the four qualifying brevets which are scheduled between October 31, 2014 and July 07, 2015.
"

I'm not suggesting anyone tries to test that...
Title: Re: PBP 2019 Qualifiers.
Post by: Wycombewheeler on March 09, 2018, 10:00:36 pm
Personally if I couldn't ride a qualifying 600 in 33h** I wouldn't enter PBP.  But that's because I like comfortable margins and had no wish to ever be anywhere near a cutoff time, and the more so if I had time and money invested in the project.
(** And that used to be AUK's advice, by the way, back in the mists of time - actually, aim to ride a 22h 400 before considering PBP.)
I think those time limits are good aspiration targets to check your training is on course for a comfortable ride, however I'm sure there are many people who would rather have a difficult 4 days battling the time limit and complete the ride than not attempt it and always wonder if they could have finished.

Most regrets are about things we didn't do, not things we did that were difficult or unpleasant.
Title: Re: PBP 2019 Qualifiers.
Post by: madcow on March 09, 2018, 11:33:50 pm
Personally if I couldn't ride a qualifying 600 in 33h** I wouldn't enter PBP.  But that's because I like comfortable margins and had no wish to ever be anywhere near a cutoff time, and the more so if I had time and money invested in the project.
(** And that used to be AUK's advice, by the way, back in the mists of time - actually, aim to ride a 22h 400 before considering PBP.)
I think those time limits are good aspiration targets to check your training is on course for a comfortable ride, however I'm sure there are many people who would rather have a difficult 4 days battling the time limit and complete the ride than not attempt it and always wonder if they could have finished.

Most regrets are about things we didn't do, not things we did that were difficult or unpleasant.

I have never achieved a finishing time of less than 36 hours on a 600 but have finished PBP twice and well within the time limit on both outings.
Usual rules apply, don’t faff at controls and be fully aware of what sleep deprivation does to you.

(If we can keep up this level of input,we can have 100+ pages up before the qualifiers even start.)
Title: Re: PBP 2019 Qualifiers.
Post by: mattc on March 10, 2018, 06:19:43 am

(If we can keep up this level of input,we can have 100+ pages up before the qualifiers even start.)
If every British PBP finisher posts their 600/PBP times, we should probably manage that!

;)
Title: Re: PBP 2019 Qualifiers.
Post by: Karla on March 10, 2018, 10:06:07 am
32:25 and 72:43, who's next?
Title: Re: PBP 2019 Qualifiers.
Post by: Deano on March 10, 2018, 10:11:15 am
36 hours and 67 hours!
Title: Re: PBP 2019 Qualifiers.
Post by: Greenbank on March 10, 2018, 10:31:00 am
If every British PBP finisher posts their 600/PBP times, we should probably manage that!

If only PBP were to summarise this information and publish it somewhere.
Title: Re: PBP 2019 Qualifiers.
Post by: Ian H on March 10, 2018, 11:46:02 am
600 times are an unreliable guide to speed and fitness.

Prompted by this thread, I looked through a few old cards and surprised myself.  I've never beaten 31hrs, but 32 for a Brimstone 600 seems remarkably energetic.

In general, I prefer to get a good night's sleep on a 600, so I will usually be on the limit at around the 400k point.  That means that most of my times are between 36 and 39hrs. 
Title: Re: PBP 2019 Qualifiers.
Post by: Somnolent on March 10, 2018, 07:02:11 pm
37.5 and just shy of 89 hours
Title: Re: PBP 2019 Qualifiers.
Post by: CrazyEnglishTriathlete on March 10, 2018, 07:44:08 pm
The correlation between 600 qualifier and finishing time is rather dependent on how you ride each event.  In 2015 I rode around the Kernow & SW (a rather hilly event) with Veloboy in a civilised 35 hours.  He went on to finish PBP in under 50 hours and I took a more leisurely 71 as I learnt from my 2011 experience that a couple of 5 hour sleeps around PBP was much more conducive to fun than trying and failing to achieve a brisk time.
Title: Re: PBP 2019 Qualifiers.
Post by: DCLane on March 10, 2018, 11:50:39 pm
If every British PBP finisher posts their 600/PBP times, we should probably manage that!

29 and 68 hours  ;D
Title: Re: PBP 2019 Qualifiers.
Post by: Ian H on March 11, 2018, 12:02:37 am
The correlation between 600 qualifier and finishing time is rather dependent on how you ride each event.  In 2015 I rode around the Kernow & SW (a rather hilly event) with Veloboy in a civilised 35 hours.  He went on to finish PBP in under 50 hours and I took a more leisurely 71 as I learnt from my 2011 experience that a couple of 5 hour sleeps around PBP was much more conducive to fun than trying and failing to achieve a brisk time.

I've never managed to better 72hrs (2011).
Title: Re: PBP 2019 Qualifiers.
Post by: Von Broad on March 11, 2018, 12:44:44 am
40hrs
90hrs
No kidding [got the evidence Your Honour]
 :)
Although, in reality I'd be the first to advocate some serious preparation.
Title: Re: PBP 2019 Qualifiers.
Post by: mattc on March 11, 2018, 08:39:37 am
If every British PBP finisher posts their 600/PBP times, we should probably manage that!

29 and 68 hours  ;D

Thanks for your input  :thumbsup:


Hopefully someone smart+helpful is going to screen-scrape this lot and put them somewhere cool (spreadsheet etc). Otherwise we'll need another 100 page thread when this comes up in early 2019 ...
Title: Re: PBP 2019 Qualifiers.
Post by: Exit Stage Left on March 11, 2018, 11:39:25 am
Shai Shrpung's list of UK riders in 2015 could form the basis of that. Interesting now for the age details. My own DNF was planned, as I had medical issues, but wanted action-cam footage of the ride to Mortagne.

http://shprung.com/pbp/?mode=list&cc=GB
Title: Re: PBP 2019 Qualifiers.
Post by: The Bonk on March 11, 2018, 02:25:02 pm


There's this list too. Which can be broken down into country etc at the top of the page.

http://axel-koenig.com/results/pbp2015
Title: Re: PBP 2019 Qualifiers.
Post by: mattc on March 11, 2018, 04:21:31 pm
Before ESL gets Shai to add 600k times to that databse, I think we need some more clarity:

- Should I be posting my 2007 data, or 2011 too?

- Are we ignoring 400k times?

- What about times on other 1000k+ events - would they be helpful?
Title: Re: PBP 2019 Qualifiers.
Post by: Exit Stage Left on March 11, 2018, 05:49:26 pm
I tend to look at the 24 Hour distances of the riders. Comparing John Barkman with John Warnock is interesting. The top 24 hour riders can be assumed to be out for a time, and what they do at PBP is revealing of the factors governing that.

At the other end of the field, it can be seen that there are plenty of younger entrants who take close to 90 hours.

I also like to compare the data with narrative accounts, to see where the wheels come off a ride, and why. That tends to make me favour the writing of the people I've met, so I can give the appropriate weight to what they say. That's a difficult area for newcomers, as they can't always judge who to take seriously.
Title: Re: PBP 2019 Qualifiers.
Post by: GPS on March 11, 2018, 09:05:24 pm
600s differ somewhat.

The Pendle600 & the Flatlands are both 600s, but would we seriously expect a rider to complete both in the same time?

I’m not sure there’s a great deal of significance in the time it takes for a rider to ride a 600. All my 600k completion times have varied too much to be of use in this comparison. Sometimes I sleep, sometimes I don’t too, for instance.

There’s a lot of variation - even on the same ride in different years ...

Title: Re: PBP 2019 Qualifiers.
Post by: simonp on March 11, 2018, 10:34:57 pm
I’ve never done a 600k anywhere near the time I did Paris-Brest outbound in 2015.
Title: Re: PBP 2019 Qualifiers.
Post by: Ian H on March 11, 2018, 10:47:33 pm
I’ve never done a 600k anywhere near the time I did Paris-Brest outbound in 2015.

Though it seems to be the case that one-way segments of longer rides are frequently quicker than the same distance as a complete event.
Title: Re: PBP 2019 Qualifiers.
Post by: zigzag on March 12, 2018, 11:51:54 am
600 for me is a ride of two parts where i want some rest and sleep in between, so not really suitable to extrapolate pbp time. 400 can be finished on the same day, so i tend to push harder, similar effort as on pbp.
Title: Re: PBP 2019 Qualifiers.
Post by: simonp on March 12, 2018, 12:28:46 pm
So my fastest 600k time was on the Bryan Chapman in 2010 - about 36h20; a year later I did 36h35 on fixed.
Title: Re: PBP 2019 Qualifiers.
Post by: Bianchi Boy on March 12, 2018, 03:46:53 pm
There was a club mate of mine who was over 70 when  he did PBP in  2011. He did the 400 in France and the group rode with all the strong riders pulling all the way and keeping it together. He claims he had a wheel the whole way. It was also pan flat in the west. So comparison of time has to be taken with a large pinch of salt.

BB

Sent from my E6653 using Tapatalk

Title: Re: PBP 2019 Qualifiers.
Post by: AK on June 27, 2018, 08:23:24 am
I was  just wondering, when do the 2019 calendar events go up on the AUK website, so that you can plan out which events we could use for qualifying?
Title: Re: PBP 2019 Qualifiers.
Post by: CrazyEnglishTriathlete on June 27, 2018, 09:14:35 am
Here's a thought about adjusting for levels of climbing on different qualifiers.  The level of climbing on PBP is about 10,000m, which is equivalent to 5000m ascent on a 600km event.  So use this as a par time.

A really hilly 600km, with c 9000m of ascent takes me 8 hours more to complete than an average one, so add 1 hour for every 500m ascent in a 600km above 5000m ascent  and subtract one 1 hour for every 500m below 5000m ascent.  See how that works.  I'm not sure about the very flat ones - I think in some ways they are harder as there is no relief from pedalling.

Title: Re: PBP 2019 Qualifiers.
Post by: jsabine on June 27, 2018, 11:02:51 am
I was  just wondering, when do the 2019 calendar events go up on the AUK website, so that you can plan out which events we could use for qualifying?

All BRM events are validated by Audax Club Parisien and have to be submitted to them by 31 October, so the final ones should be published shortly after that.

Some (not many) are available now, of course.
Title: Re: PBP 2019 Qualifiers.
Post by: AK on June 28, 2018, 08:37:56 am
I was  just wondering, when do the 2019 calendar events go up on the AUK website, so that you can plan out which events we could use for qualifying?

All BRM events are validated by Audax Club Parisien and have to be submitted to them by 31 October, so the final ones should be published shortly after that.

Some (not many) are available now, of course.
Thank you! 👍
Title: Re: PBP 2019 Qualifiers.
Post by: Tomsk on July 02, 2018, 06:58:25 am
I was  just wondering, when do the 2019 calendar events go up on the AUK website, so that you can plan out which events we could use for qualifying?

When I've pulled my finger out, mine will appear in the calendar. I've to get the ACME Grand paperwork done and dusted, and Hereward in a couple of weeks, then it's next on my Organisers To-Do List.
Title: Re: PBP 2019 Qualifiers.
Post by: Bairn Again on July 05, 2018, 02:11:05 pm
Im planning to put two events on, a 200 and a 600

The 200 will be a very flat (1,100m climbing if ridewithgps be believed) main road Bridge of Allan - North Berwick - Bridge of Allan with an Edinburgh start on Sun 20th January.  I don't think you could find a flatter 200 in Scotland.   

The 600 will be on 11/12 may with a Haymarket Edinburgh start at 0600. 

It will be a loop of around 365-370km (Edin - Perth - Montrose - Fettercairn - Kirrie - Dunning - Kinbuck - Edin) followed by a 230km loop (Edin - Dunblane - Comrie - Newburgh - Falkland - Kinross - Edin).  Again not hilly, 4,200m climbing overall again according to ridewithgps.  EDIT - and Im hoping to use Montys Bar as the arrivee  ;)
Title: Re: PBP 2019 Qualifiers.
Post by: jsabine on July 05, 2018, 09:12:51 pm
That 600 appeals, with the prospect of a bed at my parents' for the overnight. Not convinced about levering myself out on the Sunday morning, mind.
Title: Re: PBP 2019 Qualifiers.
Post by: citoyen on August 30, 2018, 04:57:51 pm
The ACP season kicks off at the start of November, unlike the AUK one which runs from October.)

I presume this means that a BRM ridden in the UK during October would count as a pre-qualifier for ACP purposes, even though it is in the wrong season?

I've had someone asking for late entry to my 200 because he wants to use it as a PBP pre-qualifier (tbh, I hadn't anticipated this circumstance when I decided to make it a BRM, it's purely fortuitous). I've had to knock him back as the event is full, but I will point him in the direction of other BRMs remaining in 2018 - which include the Lancashire Lights 200 on 21st October.

I shall also let him know that he'd be better off doing one of the 600s or the 300 if he intends it to be a PBP pre-qualifier.

ETA: found the answer to my question in Ivo's post in the other thread:
The international season ends at october 31st. All BRM's ridden until then count for the pre qualification. Depending on where you're residing (France or outside) BRM's from november 1st count as qualifiers.
Title: Re: PBP 2019 Qualifiers.
Post by: D.A.L.E. on October 03, 2018, 11:50:15 am
Re:

Quote
Whatever you've ridden in 2018 you still need to qualify for PBP by riding a Super Randonneur series of BRM rides (one each at a minimum of 200km, 300km, 400km, 600km) before the end of June 2019 (dates may vary from country to country).

Does anyone have a link to dates for qualifying windows in other countries (I.e. Canada)?
Title: Re: PBP 2019 Qualifiers.
Post by: Deano on October 03, 2018, 12:12:32 pm
You can look at the 2015 BRM calendar here to give you an idea: http://www.paris-brest-paris.org/index2.php?lang=en&cat=preparation&page=calendrier_brevet

The 2019 calendar should be finalised by now but I dunno when they'll publish it.
Title: Re: PBP 2019 Qualifiers.
Post by: D.A.L.E. on October 03, 2018, 12:30:58 pm
You can look at the 2015 BRM calendar here to give you an idea: http://www.paris-brest-paris.org/index2.php?lang=en&cat=preparation&page=calendrier_brevet

The 2019 calendar should be finalised by now but I dunno when they'll publish it.

Cheers, I'd not thought of that. A Canadian 200 in late December/early January. How hard can it be...
Title: Re: PBP 2019 Qualifiers.
Post by: LittleWheelsandBig on October 03, 2018, 01:38:14 pm
A January 200 would probably count in Canada but a December 200 won't. Canada is north of the Equator.

BC Randonneurs is the main group in Canada and most likely to have a winter brevet. Most other Canadian groups will want less snow before starting their 2019 season.
Title: Re: PBP 2019 Qualifiers.
Post by: D.A.L.E. on October 03, 2018, 04:15:03 pm
A January 200 would probably count in Canada but a December 200 won't. Canada is north of the Equator.

BC Randonneurs is the main group in Canada and most likely to have a winter brevet. Most other Canadian groups will want less snow before starting their 2019 season.
Really? According to the 2015 calendar there were BRMs in October/November, one in January (Quebec) and then they picked up in March.
Title: Re: PBP 2019 Qualifiers.
Post by: cygnet on October 03, 2018, 04:18:23 pm
It's just a list of BRMs, not PBP qualifiers (There's a Canadian 600 listed in Sept 2015 too)
Title: Re: PBP 2019 Qualifiers.
Post by: LittleWheelsandBig on October 03, 2018, 04:33:33 pm
Canada has about 6 provinces (currently 7) organising brevets independently. Most of the inland provinces get extremely cold in winter.

Qualifying in Nov/ Dec is basically a Southern hemisphere thing only. There are (or were) specific qualifying periods agreed with each country. Most Northern hemisphere countries have similar closing dates to the French for each distance but often start earlier in the year.
Title: Re: PBP 2019 Qualifiers.
Post by: grams on October 03, 2018, 05:11:57 pm
I thought the windows were just a guideline for when organisers should put events on, and BRMs outside them would still count?

(I note there’s now three non-“PBP” BRMs in the AUK calendar in the first half of next year...)
Title: Re: PBP 2019 Qualifiers.
Post by: D.A.L.E. on October 03, 2018, 05:16:42 pm
It's just a list of BRMs, not PBP qualifiers (There's a Canadian 600 listed in Sept 2015 too)

"The complete BRM calendar for 2015 (qualifying events for PBP 2015) can be downloaded here :"

I care not really. I might be in Canadia over Christmas, would have been a laugh to do a 200 in minus 400 degree weather. We shall wait and see.
Title: Re: PBP 2019 Qualifiers.
Post by: Ivo on October 03, 2018, 09:03:05 pm
I thought the windows were just a guideline for when organisers should put events on, and BRMs outside them would still count?

(I note there’s now three non-“PBP” BRMs in the AUK calendar in the first half of next year...)

Indeed. I got word from Paris that all non-French BRM's after 1-11 until the end of the qualification period will count towards PBP qualification.
Title: Re: PBP 2019 Qualifiers.
Post by: LittleWheelsandBig on October 03, 2018, 10:12:20 pm
They've changed their tune then.
Title: Re: PBP 2019 Qualifiers.
Post by: Ivo on October 03, 2018, 10:36:25 pm
They've changed their tune then.

The increased amount of countries organising full winter series might have something to do with this.
Title: Re: PBP 2019 Qualifiers.
Post by: LittleWheelsandBig on October 03, 2018, 11:00:46 pm
AUK's RRtY has a lot to answer for...
Title: Re: PBP 2019 Qualifiers.
Post by: simonp on October 04, 2018, 11:14:37 am
I thought the windows were just a guideline for when organisers should put events on, and BRMs outside them would still count?

(I note there’s now three non-“PBP” BRMs in the AUK calendar in the first half of next year...)

Indeed. I got word from Paris that all non-French BRM's after 1-11 until the end of the qualification period will count towards PBP qualification.

Is there a link to an official statement confirming this anywhere? I could do my 200k qualifier in November and save riding a February/March 200k (useful to avoid diary clashes and maybe ice). But I don't want to find out later when I try to enter that I was wrong.

Title: Re: PBP 2019 Qualifiers.
Post by: mattc on October 04, 2018, 03:30:45 pm
there aren't any BRMs in Nov or Dec.  So I guess that ship has sailed, for good or bad.
Title: Re: PBP 2019 Qualifiers.
Post by: Zed43 on October 04, 2018, 03:36:50 pm
If your willing to sail to Belgium or the Netherlands then you will find half a dozen 200k BRM rides in the november/december/januari timeframe.
Title: Re: PBP 2019 Qualifiers.
Post by: simonp on October 04, 2018, 04:34:22 pm
there aren't any BRMs in Nov or Dec.  So I guess that ship has sailed, for good or bad.

Oh.
Title: Re: PBP 2019 Qualifiers.
Post by: Ivo on October 04, 2018, 06:07:39 pm
I thought the windows were just a guideline for when organisers should put events on, and BRMs outside them would still count?

(I note there’s now three non-“PBP” BRMs in the AUK calendar in the first half of next year...)

Indeed. I got word from Paris that all non-French BRM's after 1-11 until the end of the qualification period will count towards PBP qualification.

Is there a link to an official statement confirming this anywhere? I could do my 200k qualifier in November and save riding a February/March 200k (useful to avoid diary clashes and maybe ice). But I don't want to find out later when I try to enter that I was wrong.

Not on the internet that I know of. But it has been discussed in the right circles ;).
Title: Re: PBP 2019 Qualifiers.
Post by: quixoticgeek on October 04, 2018, 06:13:28 pm
there aren't any BRMs in Nov or Dec.  So I guess that ship has sailed, for good or bad.

I have 2 200km BRM in my diary for November. Both in the Netherlands...

This is one of the advantages all Dutch calendar events being BRM...

J
Title: Re: PBP 2019 Qualifiers.
Post by: Phil W on October 04, 2018, 07:33:45 pm
I have my 200 qualifier set for later in year. If winter proves mild on a 200 BRM weekend then might bag one earlier.
Title: Re: PBP 2019 Qualifiers.
Post by: rob on October 05, 2018, 11:24:26 am
Due to general buggering around with my calendar to fit lots in I find myself doing a 400k on the last possible weekend and after I've done my 600k.

I suppose I could always ride a second 600k if all goes a bit wrong.   Pretty sure you can still do this.
Title: Re: PBP 2019 Qualifiers.
Post by: Ivo on October 05, 2018, 11:31:04 am
I'm now working on a schedule which would involve 3 weekends off from work
1st weekend an early 400k
2nd weekend either early 600 or late 400
3rd weekend either a late 600 or a 1000.
That'll probably keep my boss happy and give me a back up option.
Title: Re: PBP 2019 Qualifiers.
Post by: simonp on October 05, 2018, 11:36:32 am
I’ve got a diary clash with my planned 400k (Brevet Cymru). Rowing training camp is the same weekend. So I have entered the Buckingham Blinder. I should if everything goes to plan have qualified for mid May and will avoid excessive fatigue carrying into the big rowing events (HoRR on 30th March and Henley Royal Regatta early July). After Henley I’ll be able to focus on cycling fitness more.
Title: Re: PBP 2019 Qualifiers.
Post by: quixoticgeek on October 05, 2018, 11:39:42 am
I'm now working on a schedule which would involve 3 weekends off from work
1st weekend an early 400k
2nd weekend either early 600 or late 400
3rd weekend either a late 600 or a 1000.
That'll probably keep my boss happy and give me a back up option.

Speaking of which, when does the Dutch Calendar come out?

J
Title: Re: PBP 2019 Qualifiers.
Post by: Zed43 on October 05, 2018, 02:36:23 pm
Speaking of which, when does the Dutch Calendar come out?
Mid-October is what I heard. Not sure why it hasn't been published yet as I believe the calendar 2019 was set during a meeting mid-September.

Is there any official word on whether or not the 200/300/400/600 must be ridden in order  (substituting a shorter ride with a longer ride allowed, but no switching)? On the AUK forum I read "No particular order is required, just do the four distances within the calendar period allowed." whereas the PBP page on randonneurs.nl is adamant that riding (say) the 600km brevet before riding the 400km will not get you qualified.

I didn't find the regulations for PBP 2019, but the 2015 regulations (http://www.paris-brest-paris.org/index2.php?lang=fr&cat=randonnee&page=reglement) (article 2) are rather implicit about order.
Title: Re: PBP 2019 Qualifiers.
Post by: Wobbly on October 05, 2018, 03:16:05 pm
That's the first time I've ever heard about needing to ride qualifiers in distance-order.

I've qualified with over-distance rides in the past, however last PBP (2015) I submitted 2 x 300s and 2 x 600 rides as my qualifiers which the on-line system let me register to take part in PBP but rather disappointingly did not earn me the converted cast-iron/depleted-unranium SR medal.

Title: Re: PBP 2019 Qualifiers.
Post by: Ajax Bay on October 05, 2018, 09:07:47 pm
Is there any official word on whether or not the 200/300/400/600 must be ridden in order  (substituting a shorter ride with a longer ride allowed, but no switching)? On the AUK forum I read "No particular order is required, just do the four distances within the calendar period allowed." whereas the PBP page on randonneurs.nl is adamant that riding (say) the 600km brevet before riding the 400km will not get you qualified.
I didn't find the regulations for PBP 2019, but the 2015 regulations (http://www.paris-brest-paris.org/index2.php?lang=fr&cat=randonnee&page=reglement) (article 2) are rather implicit about order.
Translation from the dutch https://www.randonneurs.nl/paris-brest-paris/ :
"Qualification - Certificate[d rides] must be completed in sequential order. A short distance may be replaced by a longer distance. This means that the first [BRM] must be at least 200 km, the second at least 300, the third at least 400 and the fourth at least 600. If you ride more [BRMs], you can choose four in the (time) order. The PBP qualification must take place between 1 November and 30 June."
I think Article 2 of the 2015 regulations imply nothing (regarding sequence):
"Paris-Brest-Paris Randonneur® est ouvert . . . ayant accompli en 2015 les brevets de qualification homologués [BRM] de 200, 300, 400 et 600 km, . . . Il est toléré qu’un brevet puisse être remplacé par un brevet d’une distance supérieure."
Title: Re: PBP 2019 Qualifiers.
Post by: Ivo on October 05, 2018, 09:41:25 pm
Speaking of which, when does the Dutch Calendar come out?
Mid-October is what I heard. Not sure why it hasn't been published yet as I believe the calendar 2019 was set during a meeting mid-September.

The organisers still had to discuss the dates with the start locations after the mid september meeting.
Title: Re: PBP 2019 Qualifiers.
Post by: ramchip on October 28, 2018, 09:14:04 pm

In order to complete your registration, you must ride BRM events making up an SR series between 01/11/18 and June 2019.

This is incorrect... these are the dates

200km: Saturday 12th January - Sunday 28th April
300km: Saturday 16th March - Sunday 26th May
400km: Saturday 13th April - Sunday 2nd June
600km: Saturday 4th May - Sunday 23rd June

Does anybody know if the dates are different for Spain? Also can I ride my qualifiers in the UK and Spain?
Title: Re: PBP 2019 Qualifiers.
Post by: grams on October 28, 2018, 10:41:12 pm
The dates are different in every country. A quick look here suggests they're more a bit more varied in Spain:
http://www.randonneurs.es/randonneursbrevets.php

(Looks like if you're super keen you can do a 300 in February and a 400 in March)

You can do your rides in any country or mix of countries, as long as they're BRM recognised.
Title: Re: PBP 2019 Qualifiers.
Post by: Ivo on October 29, 2018, 07:22:22 am

In order to complete your registration, you must ride BRM events making up an SR series between 01/11/18 and June 2019.

This is incorrect... these are the dates

200km: Saturday 12th January - Sunday 28th April
300km: Saturday 16th March - Sunday 26th May
400km: Saturday 13th April - Sunday 2nd June
600km: Saturday 4th May - Sunday 23rd June

Does anybody know if the dates are different for Spain? Also can I ride my qualifiers in the UK and Spain?

The formal dates are only for French organisers, not for non-French organisers. You can indeed ride your BRM's everywhere. I've quite often qualified in multiple countries.
Title: Re: PBP 2019 Qualifiers.
Post by: Wycombewheeler on October 29, 2018, 12:42:15 pm

In order to complete your registration, you must ride BRM events making up an SR series between 01/11/18 and June 2019.

This is incorrect... these are the dates

200km: Saturday 12th January - Sunday 28th April
300km: Saturday 16th March - Sunday 26th May
400km: Saturday 13th April - Sunday 2nd June
600km: Saturday 4th May - Sunday 23rd June

Does anybody know if the dates are different for Spain? Also can I ride my qualifiers in the UK and Spain?

The formal dates are only for French organisers, not for non-French organisers. You can indeed ride your BRM's everywhere. I've quite often qualified in multiple countries.
These dates apply to UK BRM events as well. Other countries may have longer windows, but it is not correct to say those dates only apply in France.
Title: Re: PBP 2019 Qualifiers.
Post by: Ivo on October 29, 2018, 05:49:03 pm

In order to complete your registration, you must ride BRM events making up an SR series between 01/11/18 and June 2019.

This is incorrect... these are the dates

200km: Saturday 12th January - Sunday 28th April
300km: Saturday 16th March - Sunday 26th May
400km: Saturday 13th April - Sunday 2nd June
600km: Saturday 4th May - Sunday 23rd June

Does anybody know if the dates are different for Spain? Also can I ride my qualifiers in the UK and Spain?

The formal dates are only for French organisers, not for non-French organisers. You can indeed ride your BRM's everywhere. I've quite often qualified in multiple countries.
These dates apply to UK BRM events as well. Other countries may have longer windows, but it is not correct to say those dates only apply in France.

The official information in the ACP documents is that according to the ACP they only apply for France. If other regional bodies choose to follow them, that's possible. But not every regional body does this.
Title: Re: PBP 2019 Qualifiers.
Post by: grams on October 29, 2018, 06:00:14 pm
It's worth reiterating that the section in bold is the only bit that applies to *riders*. If you find yourself riding a BRM any time between this Thursday and whatever the final closing date in June is, it's a qualifier.
Title: Re: PBP 2019 Qualifiers.
Post by: mattc on October 29, 2018, 07:52:03 pm
It's worth reiterating that the section in bold is the only bit that applies to *riders*. If you find yourself riding a BRM any time between this Thursday and whatever the final closing date in June is, it's a qualifier.
Assuming that is the case (no offence meant grams! :) ), that is a *very* useful clarification  :thumbsup:


Seems a bit of a shame that the traditional new year kicker offer The Poor Student (Jan 5th) isn't a qualifier this year (I'm probably being pathetically nostalgic about the miserable cold/wet 2007 edition - but I doubt I'm the only one :P )
Title: Re: PBP 2019 Qualifiers.
Post by: Wycombewheeler on October 30, 2018, 10:20:46 am
It's worth reiterating that the section in bold is the only bit that applies to *riders*. If you find yourself riding a BRM any time between this Thursday and whatever the final closing date in June is, it's a qualifier.
So the statement on the audax UK website is not correct? And the Chevy Chase 200km on 5th may and the 3d300 on the 8th of June could both be used as qualifiers despite not being listed as such? (Both listed as BRM but not identified as qualifiers)
Or are we discussing events elsewhere?
Title: Re: PBP 2019 Qualifiers.
Post by: Ajax Bay on October 30, 2018, 12:03:22 pm
It's worth reiterating that the section in bold is the only bit that applies to *riders*. If you find yourself riding a BRM any time between this Thursday and whatever the final closing date in June is, it's a qualifier.
So the statement on the audax UK website is not correct? And the Chevy Chase 200km on 5th may and the 3d300 on the 8th of June could both be used as qualifiers despite not being listed as such? (Both listed as BRM but not identified as qualifiers)
Or are we discussing events elsewhere?
Chevy Chase is on 4 May (according to the calendar) btw.
Perhaps these two BRM events did not meet the AUK/ACP deadline date for publication (as a BRM(PBP)). (I do not know.)
Title: Re: PBP 2019 Qualifiers.
Post by: grams on October 30, 2018, 03:26:02 pm
The events within the windows are scheduled and intended to be used as PBP qualifiers, but that doesn't meant the events outside them aren't also valid as qualifiers. I think in 2015 there were no AUK BRMs outside the window, so the wording (which has no been recycled) didn't have to account for that.

The ACP brochure (http://www.aukweb.net/_resources/files/PLAQUETTE-GB_revised.pdf) has this wording:

Quote
To qualify for PBP you must complete a Super Randonneur brevet series (200, 300, 400, and 600 km) of ACP-sanctioned brevets in 2019. Those brevets are offered in over 65 countries around the world.
Quote
For example, we are suggesting the following schedule to regional brevet administrators in France:

This makes clear who the intended audience is for the windows, and that they're only suggestions.