Yet Another Cycling Forum

General Category => The Knowledge => Health & Fitness => Topic started by: Chris S on September 16, 2009, 05:19:46 pm

Title: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: Chris S on September 16, 2009, 05:19:46 pm
Well - it seems we need a complementary thread to the Cross Training: Running one, for those of us who eschew the delights of the British pavement, and do it sitting down instead.

We've bought a Concept II 'D' for several uses. Some in the household want to lose some pounds and I want to cross train on it. I've never been much good at rowing - the gut gets in the way and I always feel like I'm not getting enough breath. Hopefully the rower will work its magic and the gut will diminish.

Today I did the longest row I've ever done - half an hour  :o. This included a 2000m timed section where I set down my base time of 9:07.7. I'm hoping one of these sessions a week, combined with some other steadier rowing sessions, and perhaps some intervals later, will see that time coming down as fast as my waistline dimensions.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: no97trap on September 16, 2009, 05:52:15 pm
I've got a D too. I do struggle to use it regularly though. Are we going to create a log?
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: mike on September 16, 2009, 06:00:21 pm
Good work!  Half an hour without a break is bloody hard, did you get off and stretch during?

you've certainly got room for improvement... :D  Some technique coaching should cut a minute off that pretty quickly and 7.30 should be within reach by christmas for someone that does as much pedalling as you do.  Let me know when you're next coming past if you fancy it! (you doing the Tints?  Fancy a mid-audax ergo session?  ;))

Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: Chris S on September 16, 2009, 06:07:09 pm
Good work!  Half an hour without a break is bloody hard, did you get off and stretch during?

I didn't get off no - I paused to reset the monitor into 2000m mode - and took the last 10 minutes or so after the 2000m pretty easy.

you've certainly got room for improvement... :D  Some technique coaching should cut a minute off that pretty quickly and 7.30 should be within reach by christmas for someone that does as much pedalling as you do.  Let me know when you're next coming past if you fancy it! (you doing the Tints?  Fancy a mid-audax ergo session?  ;))

That sounds like a brilliant idea except for one teensy weensy snag - the Tints doesn't go your way - the second loop is down to Hog Hill again. S'pose I could pop by on the drive home. Don't expect miracles - I'll have ridden 200km on fixed by then!

How about the next day - I seem to remember Simon saying his ride goes up to Barkway...?
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: mike on September 16, 2009, 06:09:55 pm
How about the next day - I seem to remember Simon saying his ride goes up to Barkway...?

Sunday = swimming / cycling / running for me!  First triathlon over near northampton.

we'll be here on saturday though, if you've got the enthusiasm after the tints.  Or next time you're coming past...
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: simonp on September 16, 2009, 07:09:22 pm
Technique, schmecknique.  Just yank harder.

SRSLY, get someone who knows their rowing to look at your form.  Worked wonders for me.

For some encouragement, I think the wattage for 9:07 is pretty low compared to what you're capable of on a bike.  8 minutes will be about 200W average - IIRC that's the sort of thing you can do on the bike so why not on a rower?  Technique, I think.  7:25 for me was an average of 254W.  That was tough.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: Chris S on September 16, 2009, 09:33:38 pm
I've had a desk job for 25 years. I have no upper body strength.

This will change.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: rower40 on September 16, 2009, 09:42:08 pm
My cross-training today consisted of sitting (3/4 lying down) in a cox's seat designed for a 10-year-old boy (i.e. 10 inches from hip to hip), and shouting (with electronic assistance) at 8 young girls.

First time in an Eight for most of them.  It went surprisingly well - they've been taught well in successive "Learn-To-Row" courses, and spent a long time sculling (i.e. two blades each, whereas rowing is one each) so they've all got good basic boat skillz.

[Young Mr Grace]
You've all done very well....
[/Young Mr Grace]

I just wish my back didn't hurt so much. :(
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: mike on September 16, 2009, 09:47:27 pm
I've had a desk job for 25 years. I have no upper body strength.

This will change.

you dont need much.  If you've been riding fixed anywhere hilly, you're plenty strong enough (so not Norfolk then).  Just got to get the technique right... :)
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: Chris S on September 16, 2009, 09:51:59 pm
Just got to get the technique right... :)

I'm trying to emulate this technique:

YouTube - Rowing Technique (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eqVmMd7FdAA)
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: rower40 on September 16, 2009, 10:05:06 pm
I've had a desk job for 25 years. I have no upper body strength.

This will change.

 Just got to get the technique right... :)
Hands Body Slide.  (on the way forward)
Keep the Arms Straighter for Longer. (on the way back)
Rowing is a Pushing Sport, not a Pulling Sport.

At my Rowing Club, we used to have a large metallic mirror that we could prop up against the ergos, so that the victims rowers could watch their own technique.

Edit - just watched that YouTube link. Excellent.  Notice that the recovery takes longer than the power phase.  Take your time forward.

OTOH we have a saying: Put an ergo on water, and it sinks. ;)
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: Panoramix on September 16, 2009, 10:06:51 pm
If I were you I would do 2 sessions a week:

one of "5 by 5"
This is 5 times 5 minutes with a set distance. You must achieve the distance 5 times in a row (#3 and #4 will hurt) with a pause in between, you can do it in pair with a 5 minutes pause.

One long one for endurance (half an hour or one hour) same principle: a set distance that you must achieve.

I used to have a spreadsheet that would give you the distance to achieve depending on your 2k target but i can't find it  :-[

As mentioned above, 2k is just good at measuring your fitness! Btw, if you don't feel a bit sick at the end of a 2k, you probably weren't pulling hard enough  ;)

Regarding technique, it is easy: legs then stomach and finally arms and the other way round on the recovery. The smoother, the more efficient! Most of the work comes from the legs, don't forget to "lock" your upper body while your legs are pushing.

Edit: beaten to it by rower40 for the technique tricks...
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: simonp on September 16, 2009, 11:32:29 pm
I've had a desk job for 25 years. I have no upper body strength.

This will change.

Yeah and my arms are huge as we all know.  :P
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: mattc on September 17, 2009, 08:37:39 am
Notice that the recovery takes longer than the power phase.

Why is that? In cycling terms it's a disaster - you're reducing the time spent exerting force, so you must have to increase the force applied over that time = rubbish endurance.[and 7mins is definitely an endurance activity]

And yet it clearly works when rowing. Is it a consequence of how the flywheely-thingies are connected up? I'm baffled.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: Chris S on September 17, 2009, 08:46:55 am
I would argue that rowing and cycling are the same in this respect. In both disciplines, the engine is idling half the time, unless you properly circular pedal, and not many people do that.

In cycling, your legs are the engine, and (with the circular pedaling caveat) the legs are idle on the upward pedal stroke.

In rowing, your whole body is the engine, and similarly - it idles on the "non-power" stroke.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: Marco Stefano on September 19, 2009, 04:06:40 pm
Slower recovery is more important on the water. Newtonian physics, apparently - large mass of rower moves in opposite direction from small mass of boat, boat speed increases at first (reaction) then slows as weight pushes boat backwards through feet.

Not as important on a Concept 2, although if rowing at a high rating (high strokes per minute, spm) you can drive the machine across the room depending on the flooring and if you thump into frontstops. Also, the recovery (coming forward up the slide) is your opportunity to rest & relax. And yes, you need to, and can do, at 36+spm.

Technique is important; doing it right is more efficient and stops you f***ing up your lower back.

Rather than droning up and down, for interest, try:
3 x 10 minute pyramids - 4' at 20spm / 3' at 22 / 2' at 24 / 1' at 26 , then 22/24/26/28, then 24/26/28/30, with varying power ("pressure"), i.e. 4' light, 3min 1/2 race pace, 2' 3/4 race pace, 1' eyeballs out.
The first will feel quite easy (if you're properly warmed up), it's more difficult to force yourself to do the last one (or do another one...  :demon:).
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: Chris S on October 06, 2009, 06:39:43 pm
Well... an improvement has occured  :)

8:48.3 for tonight's 2000m - down from 9:07.7 previously. This is despite giving blood 24 hours ago, so I'm pleased with that. Probably mostly down to technique - as this was off an average stroke rate of 22; any more than that and I run out of puff.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: microphonie on October 06, 2009, 06:57:13 pm
Ooh v jealous. Have thought long & hard about getting one of these - particularly since I really need to sort out some upper body excercise (not been to the gym in nigh on 8 years now & am pathetically puny).

Back when I did do 3 gym sessions a week the Concept II was my thing: mainly 10k rows rather than 2k sprints. Got my record down to about 42mins iirc. Don't think I'd manage a 10k in an hour now!

I don't think I can justify the expense of a Concept II, even a reconditioned one though. I have thought about a pilates reformer as an alternative though.

Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: Marco Stefano on October 07, 2009, 08:40:31 pm
Bought one second hand (ex. Canadian national squad bloke - sadly it hasn't made me any faster...  :-[) in 2001. It's a lifetime thing, as C2 have every part available and repair diagrams on the website. Plenty for sale on their forum.

Mind you, I intend to carry on rowing as long as I can, so it's an investment in me. I worked out it would payback in about 5 years against the cost of rowing twice a week in a local gym. And I don't have to go outside on wintry nights...
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: Chris S on October 22, 2009, 06:11:38 pm
Good workout this evening, practicing timing my leg drive after the catch. I can feel when I get it right - like when you hit a cricket ball with the sweet spot of the bat - and the split time drops by 20s  :thumbsup:.

So - half an hour - 6250m; including two one minute bursts with a sub-two minute 500m split.

Knackered now though  ;).
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: simonp on October 22, 2009, 06:19:00 pm
Keep being tempted to go to the gym and get back on it with the rower.  Tonight was a possibility but instead I've been persuaded to try a swimming club out.

It's getting quite tricky to fit everything in at the moment - and that's despite being young (ish!) free and single.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: mike on October 22, 2009, 06:27:10 pm
Good workout this evening, practicing timing my leg drive after the catch. I can feel when I get it right - like when you hit a cricket ball with the sweet spot of the bat - and the split time drops by 20s  :thumbsup:.

great, isnt it?   ;D

So - half an hour - 6250m; including two one minute bursts with a sub-two minute 500m split.

8k for 30 minutes was our bragging benchmark, only one of us ever hit 8,500 (and he really was 7 feet tall :o )
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: simonp on October 24, 2009, 08:02:31 pm
Hmm.

So I went out drinking with some rowers last night.

Now I've agreed to go try out rowing on the water next weekend.

Where will the madness stop?  ::-)
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: Marco Stefano on October 25, 2009, 10:45:06 am
Where will the madness stop?  ::-)

Never - that's why it's a madness... That's why I was sculling at 7:30 yesterday morning from Ely to Ely (i.e. going nowhere) via Littleport on a river with no scenic attraction whatsoever. Apart from Cambridge women's crews... ;D 

I'm sure Mike will back me up on this (the rowing, but possibly on CUWBC members too).
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: mike on October 25, 2009, 11:48:28 am
Where will the madness stop?  ::-)

Never - that's why it's a madness... That's why I was sculling at 7:30 yesterday morning from Ely to Ely (i.e. going nowhere) via Littleport on a river with no scenic attraction whatsoever. Apart from Cambridge women's crews... ;D 

I'm sure Mike will back me up on this (the rowing, but possibly on CUWBC members too).

+1 on both ;D 

We used to train from the fish & duck just south of ely so I know that stretch quite well.  Capsizing under the railway bridge in a 20mph northerly wind in feb was a particularly low point.

Simon - be careful, it's a very slippery slope.  Rowing is like a drug and when it gets you, you can forget about audaxing..
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: simonp on October 25, 2009, 02:10:33 pm
Female rowers?  Never crossed my mind...  O:-)
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: simonp on October 27, 2009, 11:10:35 pm
Well I thought it would be a good idea to get a Concept II session in at the gym before going on the water.  Not having been on a rower for 2 months.

Did 5000m in 19:32.8, which is a 28s improvement on my PB.  ::-)

They have a challenge at the gym at the moment - top 3 times in various classifications.  I'm the first guy to do a 5000m in my class (male, >5'11").  I'm much faster than the only other 5000m time up, which is <5'11 class.  Will be interesting to see how quickly I'm beaten.  Last time they did this, was almost 10 years ago and I was much, much slower - about 20'40 or so.

Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: simonp on November 03, 2009, 09:41:05 pm
No-one has done a time anywhere near my time for last week.  Including me, I could only manage 19:58.0 tonight (though I deliberately took it a bit easier; frankly I don't like my stomach threatening to do Bad Things during exercise).  It meant I had a lot more left at the end as I managed to get down to 1:30/500m during the sprint to the line (instead of 1:40).

There's still only one time for 5000m up there, it's over a minute slower than mine iirc.  In the shorties group.

Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: Chris S on November 04, 2009, 10:40:47 am
I couldn't quite match Simon's youthful exuberance this morning, but it was good for me I think:

(http://photos-h.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc3/hs037.snc3/12433_195274387852_566727852_3985828_3427803_n.jpg)

Interesting how the stroke rate went up as I got more and more frenetic! No doubt my form went to pot too!
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: simonp on November 04, 2009, 03:19:09 pm
My "youthful" exuberance was all gone this morning.

Combination of last night's efforts, plus poor sleep = struggling up Coldhams Lane bridge.  Really lacking in power, and then a real struggle after going over the bridge as I'd used everything on the bridge.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: Chris S on November 10, 2009, 10:12:57 pm
8:37.4 for 2000m tonight  :D
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: simonp on November 11, 2009, 01:23:57 am
That's good progress. I wanted to do some of that but too knackered and sore. I listened to my body. Maybe tomorrow.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: simonp on November 22, 2009, 02:40:19 pm
Finally got round to visiting the gym again today.  I did 2000m on the rower in 7:30.7.  5.7s slower than my PB - cycling 100km yesterday probably won't have helped.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: andygates on November 22, 2009, 04:08:27 pm
Someone needs to mash up a Concept II and a Wii controller to let individuals crew a Viking longship.   :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: liam_whippet on November 22, 2009, 08:22:50 pm
... or a trireme??  :demon:
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: andygates on November 22, 2009, 09:21:46 pm
Whole gym vs gym battle boat championships!  The perky girl who does the Les Mills classes yelling "RAMMING SPEED!"

*little moment*

I'll shave my head and get a drum...
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: andrew w on November 22, 2009, 09:48:31 pm
I've been lurking on this thread for a while now, as I've got a Concept 2 rower in my garage, and I try to use it in the winter months when my cycling mileage takes a nosedive.  I started back on the rower about ten days ago, and my usual (fairly unstructured) strategy is just to warm up, then to row for 30 minutes at a pace that I can sustain for that length of time.  I'm a relative lightweight (around 71 kilos), and I'm also an old git (just turned 59).

Tonight I had my first attempt at a time for 2000m - it took me 8:22.9, and I definitely went off too fast at the start, so I was really struggling to maintain the pace towards the end.  I'm aiming to get under 8 minutes, so watch this space!  Don't hold your breath though - it may take a while to reach my goal.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: andrew w on November 25, 2009, 09:44:55 pm
8:20.9 tonight for 2000m - 2 seconds faster than last time.  A sub-8 minute time seems a long way away at the moment.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: simonp on November 25, 2009, 10:04:05 pm
'bout a month?  ;D

My goal is further away by that reckoning - I've gone backwards.  ;D
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: Andydauddwr on November 25, 2009, 10:24:12 pm
Holiday challenge starts tomorrow, try and rack up 100K by Xmas.  Bit of a thon flavour to it this year too.

Clicky:
http://www.concept2.com/us/motivation/challenges/individual/holchal.asp (http://www.concept2.com/us/motivation/challenges/individual/holchal.asp)

AC
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: simonp on November 25, 2009, 10:35:52 pm
Count me out of that.  :hand:
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: Marco Stefano on November 26, 2009, 10:12:55 pm
I used to have a 2k race pace calculator from somewhere, but I can't find it.   :-[

Basically, you work out the 500m splits for your target time, then it's -2 secs for the first 500m, +2 secs for the middle 1k, then -2 secs (hopefully) for the last 500m and wind for the finish from 300m out. Even if you feel brilliant in the first 500m, stick to the plan, or you will get bitten later.

Also, go off silly hard in the first 10 strokes and then settle to race pace - we have a small alactic anaerobic respiration system which can be regarded as 'free', but once gone is gone, and you'll only have the wherewithall to use it at the start.

I talk a good race, me.    Wheeze. Bleurgh.  :sick:
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: andrew w on November 26, 2009, 11:00:21 pm
Basically, you work out the 500m splits for your target time, then it's -2 secs for the first 500m, +2 secs for the middle 1k, then -2 secs (hopefully) for the last 500m and wind for the finish from 300m out. Even if you feel brilliant in the first 500m, stick to the plan, or you will get bitten later.

Also, go off silly hard in the first 10 strokes and then settle to race pace - we have a small alactic anaerobic respiration system which can be regarded as 'free', but once gone is gone, and you'll only have the wherewithall to use it at the start.

I talk a good race, me.    Wheeze. Bleurgh.  :sick:

Thanks.  It all sounds like good sense - I'll give it a try next time I do 2000m, probably at the weekend.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: andrew w on November 29, 2009, 12:39:46 pm
Basically, you work out the 500m splits for your target time, then it's -2 secs for the first 500m, +2 secs for the middle 1k, then -2 secs (hopefully) for the last 500m and wind for the finish from 300m out. Even if you feel brilliant in the first 500m, stick to the plan, or you will get bitten later.

Also, go off silly hard in the first 10 strokes and then settle to race pace - we have a small alactic anaerobic respiration system which can be regarded as 'free', but once gone is gone, and you'll only have the wherewithall to use it at the start.

I talk a good race, me.    Wheeze. Bleurgh.  :sick:

Thanks.  It all sounds like good sense - I'll give it a try next time I do 2000m, probably at the weekend.

Well, I tried it this morning - normally I'd be out on my bike on a Sunday morning, but the weather here is a bit iffy, so I decided to use the rower instead.  1000 meter warm-up, then onto the 2000 metre row.  I was aiming for 8:16, so the plan was to do the first 500 in 2:02, the next 1000 in 4:12 and the last 500 in 2:02.  It worked a treat, I stuck more or less to the plan and came out with a final time of 8:14.8, so thanks for the advice, Marco :thumbsup:

I'm also trying to do the "100,000 metres by Christmas Eve" challenge, referred to by Andy Cox upthread.  21000 metres done so far (in four days), only another 79000 to go in 25 days.  Eminently achievable, I think, barring injury or illness.   My plan is to do four sessions per week at 7000 metres per session.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: simonp on November 29, 2009, 03:06:07 pm
Lalalalala I can't hear you.  :hand:
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: andrew w on November 29, 2009, 03:48:44 pm
Go on, you know you want to ;D.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: Marco Stefano on November 30, 2009, 12:26:44 pm
Well, I tried it this morning - normally I'd be out on my bike on a Sunday morning, but the weather here is a bit iffy, so I decided to use the rower instead.  1000 meter warm-up, then onto the 2000 metre row.  I was aiming for 8:16, so the plan was to do the first 500 in 2:02, the next 1000 in 4:12 and the last 500 in 2:02.  It worked a treat, I stuck more or less to the plan and came out with a final time of 8:14.8, so thanks for the advice, Marco :thumbsup:

I'm also trying to do the "100,000 metres by Christmas Eve" challenge, referred to by Andy Cox upthread.  21000 metres done so far (in four days), only another 79000 to go in 25 days.  Eminently achievable, I think, barring injury or illness.   My plan is to do four sessions per week at 7000 metres per session.

Blimey, it worked!  ;D 

Barring injury or illness, hmmm... I did Concept 2's 1,000,000 metres in 6 months for Comic Relief some years ago, and planned for about 10K 4 times a week. Following illness & injury  ::-) , the last 6 weeks were 12.5K at least 4 times a week, with the last session on Comic Relief night.  :-[

Next tip: 1000m is a very short warm up for a 2K race pace trial. Mine would be more like 20 mins, with several bouts of 30 secs race pace / 30 secs light after 15 mins. You should be hot and sweaty before you start your 2K, and it takes that long to get enzyme systems up and running. Should be worth a few seconds.

Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: Wascally Weasel on November 30, 2009, 12:39:54 pm
I really should use or sell my C2 rower - just gathering dust at the minute.  Must get it set up and get back to it.

I used to do some reasonable times (well below 8 minutes) but I put a lot of that down to technique as I'm an ex-rower (mind you I wasn't that good a rower, one year I was in the ignominious crew that came last in the Thames eights head race.  One crew even crashed in to the bank just afte Barnes Bridge and was stuck there for a while.  They still beat us  :-[)

Might try to get back in to it for the new year.  I'll make a deal, if I'm not rowing again by this time next year I'll sell the rower on here for a reasonable price (it's a model D bought back in 2004 I think).
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: simonp on December 01, 2009, 09:26:05 pm
30:00 => 7432m.

Garmin Connect -
      Activity Details for
            Untitled   (http://connect.garmin.com/activity/19928729)

Nice rise in the heart rate as I upped the pace at the end.  I kept having to remind myself I was doing 30 minutes as the pace was creeping up.

Felt pretty comfortable at that pace for 30 mins apart from slipping grip due to sweat.  I've got blisters again.   :hand:
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: simonp on December 02, 2009, 12:35:26 am
Go on, you know you want to ;D.

I've chosen my charity.  23 days left, 7432 metres on the clock only.

I basically now need to row 10,000m 3 times a week to make this.

You buggers.  >:(
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: simonp on December 02, 2009, 07:04:00 pm
Note to self: gloves.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: mike on December 02, 2009, 07:41:55 pm
Note to self: gloves.


they'll make it worse cos they chafe.  Cotton wool over the sore bits then Zinc Oxide tape from boots over the top (or insulation tape works too)

Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: andrew w on December 03, 2009, 09:37:03 pm
My first 10,000m row tonight.  Took it steady, as befits an old git like me  Probably too steady, as I was by no means exhausted at the end, which I reached in 45:53.5. 

Have now done 45,000m towards the 100,000 target to be reached by Christmas Eve.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: andrew w on December 05, 2009, 04:24:54 pm
Another go at 10,000m today, this time with a bit less restraint, since I had some idea of what I might be capable of.  Did it in 44:39.2, which I was quite pleased with.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: simonp on December 05, 2009, 04:45:10 pm
If I can get my mitts on some zinc oxide tape tomorrow i will have a go at 10,000m.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: andrew w on December 05, 2009, 05:28:24 pm
If I can get my mitts on some zinc oxide tape tomorrow i will have a go at 10,000m.


Well, your'e about 10% faster than me at 2000m, so if the same proportional difference applies at 10,000m, you should be looking for around 40:11.  No pressure, though :).
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: simonp on December 05, 2009, 05:36:26 pm
I was going to aim for 42:00.  In truth I think I could have gone faster when I did 30:00 for 7432m on Tuesday; if I did 10,000m at that pace it would be 40:36.

Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: simonp on December 06, 2009, 02:31:41 pm
Found myself a bit off from the start.

The guy did say I'd probably have a bit of muscle fatigue for a couple of days after the VO2max test, and I then went to the Cambridge CC annual dinner where I got all boozed up and then yesterday was a hangover.

Still, I beat my original target - I did it in 41:45.0

Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: andrew w on December 06, 2009, 05:37:38 pm
Still, I beat my original target - I did it in 41:45.0

Well done :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: Valiant on December 07, 2009, 04:08:37 am
So how much are these things?
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: Chris S on December 07, 2009, 09:06:37 am
So how much are these things?

On ebay; model Cs go for between 300 and 500; model Ds for between 500 and 700.

I bought a refurbed D from these people:
   Amazon Leisure UK Ltd – Europe’s Largest Supplier of Fitness Equipment
 (http://www.amazon-leisure.com/)
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: simonp on December 08, 2009, 10:45:11 pm
Still, I beat my original target - I did it in 41:45.0

Well done :thumbsup:

So I tried to go a bit slower tonight on account of having spent the entire of the 10,000m waiting for it to be over.  Much more relaxed pace, 42:49.6, which was easy to maintain and I did a nice steady 21spm or so.  That power output is more like my aerobic training level (165 watts average).

Will be much easier to meet the target.

Oh and some git has beaten my 5,000m time at the gym finally.  By a country mile; 18:45 to my 19:32.  There is no way I'm getting close to that any time soon.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: Chris S on December 09, 2009, 02:34:20 pm
When you do Pyramid sets - do you work at the same rate for each step in the pyramid, or do you just go "As hard as you bloody well can" for that time?

I did a set earlier - and was able to do a <2m split for one minute, but couldn't do that kind of workload for longer. The longer steps were more like 2:05 to 2:08 splits.

F*cking hard work though - I was jelly afterward.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: mike on December 09, 2009, 02:40:55 pm
I think we used to do pyramids every which way - it could be either holding the rate constant and moving the split up & down, or ignoring the split and just moving the rate up and down.

The former is probably better if you're not being coached because it's too easy to let technique go to sh*t as the rate comes up if you havent got a small, angry person shouting at you.  The latter is more like actual rowing though, where you have to follow the rate pattern set by the stern pair and can slack off / pull harder depending on how fruity you're feeling.   

Have you had any coaching yet chris? 

Oh and some git has beaten my 5,000m time at the gym finally.  By a country mile; 18:45 to my 19:32.  There is no way I'm getting close to that any time soon.


sorry 'bout that...   ;)
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: Chris S on December 09, 2009, 02:51:31 pm
Have you had any coaching yet chris? 

No. Still wanting to take you up on your previous offer of some  :thumbsup:.

We should sort out a date.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: mattc on December 09, 2009, 04:15:10 pm
Basically, you work out the 500m splits for your target time, then it's -2 secs for the first 500m, +2 secs for the middle 1k, then -2 secs (hopefully) for the last 500m and wind for the finish from 300m out. Even if you feel brilliant in the first 500m, stick to the plan, or you will get bitten later.

Also, go off silly hard in the first 10 strokes and then settle to race pace - we have a small alactic anaerobic respiration system which can be regarded as 'free', but once gone is gone, and you'll only have the wherewithall to use it at the start.

I talk a good race, me.    Wheeze. Bleurgh.  :sick:

Thanks.  It all sounds like good sense - I'll give it a try next time I do 2000m, probably at the weekend.

Well, I tried it this morning - normally I'd be out on my bike on a Sunday morning, but the weather here is a bit iffy, so I decided to use the rower instead.  1000 meter warm-up, then onto the 2000 metre row.  I was aiming for 8:16, so the plan was to do the first 500 in 2:02, the next 1000 in 4:12 and the last 500 in 2:02.  It worked a treat, I stuck more or less to the plan and came out with a final time of 8:14.8, so thanks for the advice, Marco :thumbsup:

I'm also trying to do the "100,000 metres by Christmas Eve" challenge, referred to by Andy Cox upthread.  21000 metres done so far (in four days), only another 79000 to go in 25 days.  Eminently achievable, I think, barring injury or illness.   My plan is to do four sessions per week at 7000 metres per session.

Well .... just done my 2nd attempt in a week (also 3rd go this year).
8:18 for 2,000m

I rowed to my HR, sticking to my 30min bike TT rate, so I had a little more to give, but not a lot. I do think rowing fitness is very comparable with bike fitness, as I have done well under 8mins in the past, but I am MUCH less fit than July due to all the injury time.

So I'm slower than Bridget's 5k pace - a bloody girly!
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: simonp on December 09, 2009, 04:47:21 pm
So I'm slower than Bridget's 5k pace - a bloody girly!

If it's any help, that was first time on a rower for 2 months.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: mattc on December 09, 2009, 04:50:24 pm
So I'm slower than Bridget's 5k pace - a bloody girly!

If it's any help, that was first time on a rower for 2 months.

Yeah, but you're taller than me. :P
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: simonp on December 10, 2009, 12:25:43 am
So I'm slower than Bridget's 5k pace - a bloody girly!

If it's any help, that was first time on a rower for 2 months.

Yeah, but you're taller than me. :P

True, but I'm a lightweight.

I think rowing flat out's the wrong approach anyway.  I'll gain more rowing 40 mins at 165W compared to 20 mins at 200W.

Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: andrew w on December 10, 2009, 12:21:55 pm
I'm also trying to do the "100,000 metres by Christmas Eve" challenge, referred to by Andy Cox upthread.  21000 metres done so far (in four days), only another 79000 to go in 25 days.  Eminently achievable, I think, barring injury or illness.   My plan is to do four sessions per week at 7000 metres per session.

I've now done 69,000 metres and I'll be doing another 7,000 tonight, so only another 24,000 to go after today.  I haven't had any more attempts at 2,000m since my 8:14.8, but I might have another go at the weekend.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: simonp on December 10, 2009, 12:44:23 pm
I'm on 27432 with another 10,000 tonight taking me to 37,432. Lots to do. Starting late doesn't help. Two Christmas dinners next week so I might do 2x10,000 on sat and sun.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: mattc on December 10, 2009, 12:52:05 pm
Yeah, but you're taller than me. :P

True, but I'm a lightweight.

At first I thought you were just stating facts. But I now find the limit is 72.5 kg, and:
I can't get below 73kg at the moment.  Bounced back up to 73.7 this morning

So there's only 1 conclusion:
Are you calling me fat?!?
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: simonp on December 10, 2009, 01:11:37 pm
Yeah, but you're taller than me. :P

True, but I'm a lightweight.

At first I thought you were just stating facts. But I now find the limit is 72.5 kg, and:
I can't get below 73kg at the moment.  Bounced back up to 73.7 this morning

So there's only 1 conclusion:
Are you calling me fat?!?

I thought the standard definition of lightweight was <75kg.  If >75kg is fat, then I was fat a couple of weeks ago.

Quote
Below are the definitions for lightweight and heavyweight for men and women. These weight categories only apply to rowing.

Lightweight Women: <= 135lbs (61.5kg)
Heavyweight Women: > 135 lbs (61.6kg)

Lightweight Men <= 165lbs (75kg)
Heavyweight Men > 165lbs (75kg)

Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: Greenbank on December 10, 2009, 01:22:15 pm
<Garfield>

I'm not fat, I'm just undertall.

</Garfield>
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: simonp on December 10, 2009, 11:31:41 pm
Another 10,000m this evening.  My average HR for this was 153bpm compared to 161bpm from two days ago.  Little bit of training effect there.  :)

0.5s faster, too.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: simonp on December 11, 2009, 04:56:53 pm
I'm going to do another 10,000 tonight.  Keeping it ticking over, like.

This leads me to the following question; in which order should I do things?

Row then hundred push ups and two hundred sit ups programme (both week 6 day 3, but different columns) or do the push ups and sit ups first?
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: simonp on December 11, 2009, 09:49:42 pm
I went for push ups etc first.  Probably wise.

I did the 10,000m a bit faster than last night.  42:12.2 iirc.

So that's me on 47,432.  Almost half way.

Have got two Christmas outings (work, 5-a-side) this week.  Oops.

Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: andrew w on December 12, 2009, 05:57:41 pm
10,000m in 44:22.3 this morning, which is 17 seconds quicker than my previous best :thumbsup:

Total distance in the challenge period now 86,000m.  Not far to go now, though I don't intend to stop at 100k.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: simonp on December 13, 2009, 06:14:16 pm
I did my slowest 10,000m.  Mainly because my earphones kept coming out.  Popped into town and bought some coffee beans and some sports earphones which should stay in better.

57432m done - not far to go now.

Mon & Tues should put me on 77432 and if I do both those I think I'll have it licked.  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: simonp on December 14, 2009, 11:04:07 pm
Quote
IMPORTANT UPDATE: 12/14/09 3:40 p.m. ET
Due to a minor problem we experienced with our results database this afternoon, any results entered Saturday, 12/12 through today, 12/14 at 2 p.m. are no longer in your logbook. We are sorry for the inconvenience this may cause you. Please re-enter any missing results from the last 2–3 days. If you have any questions, feel free to email us at ranking@concept2.com. Thanks!
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: simonp on December 14, 2009, 11:06:28 pm
I decided to mix it up a bit tonight; a few 500m at 1:55 or so mixed in to the 10,000m.

Result: a PB time of 41:24.1

And I'm on 67,432m.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: andrew w on December 15, 2009, 12:29:35 pm
Quote
IMPORTANT UPDATE: 12/14/09 3:40 p.m. ET
Due to a minor problem we experienced with our results database this afternoon, any results entered Saturday, 12/12 through today, 12/14 at 2 p.m. are no longer in your logbook. We are sorry for the inconvenience this may cause you. Please re-enter any missing results from the last 2–3 days. If you have any questions, feel free to email us at ranking@concept2.com. Thanks!


Strangely, the 10,000m that I entered on Saturday 12/12 is still there.

I decided to mix it up a bit tonight; a few 500m at 1:55 or so mixed in to the 10,000m.

Result: a PB time of 41:24.1

And I'm on 67,432m.


Well done :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: simonp on December 15, 2009, 01:14:36 pm
Going to core stability class at 5.15 this evening, then will jump on the rower again.  Problem: equipment use is limit to 30 mins until 7pm and the class finishes at 5.45.  So I think I might do a 30 min row, wander off to the free weights for a few minutes then come back and do another 30.   ;D  That should put another 14,000+ metres down.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: simonp on December 15, 2009, 09:06:08 pm
30:00, 7068m.

30:00, 7017m.

81,517m with more than a week to go.  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: simonp on December 16, 2009, 12:02:33 am
Another blister. @simonproven | TweetPhoto (http://tweetphoto.com/6498824) Changed grip helped but with so much distance I've found a new location to blister. Fortunately I won't be rowing again til Saturday. 
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: andrew w on December 16, 2009, 09:38:12 pm
7000m last night and 7000m tonight.  That's 100,000m completed :smug:  It doesn't seem to get any easier, though!
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: andrew w on December 21, 2009, 04:23:22 pm
Another 10,000m yesterday, but my motivation is weakening.  Maybe it's something to do with the fact that my rowing machine is in a detached unheated garage, where the indoor temperature is hardly any different from the outdoor temperature.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: simonp on December 21, 2009, 04:36:58 pm
Well, since Tuesday I've done nowt.  Wednesday: work xmas party, Thursday: 5-a-side curry, Friday drinkies and food with kung fu mates.  Saturday, well I didn't get to bed til 4am and it's a 5 mile cycle to the gym which closes at 2pm etc.  Sunday not much better and christmas shopping needed doing.

So I now have to do the remaining 18,500m in 3 days.  :thumbsup:

I'm going to row /exactly/ 100,000m.  :P
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: simonp on December 22, 2009, 01:00:35 pm
8500 to do.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: simonp on December 22, 2009, 08:30:22 pm
Dunnit: 101,517m, from Dec 1st to Dec 22nd.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: andrew w on December 23, 2009, 03:42:22 pm
Dunnit: 101,517m, from Dec 1st to Dec 22nd.


Well done :thumbsup:

I've just come out of my garage from doing another 10,000m, in a personal best time of 44:04.8, so I'm quite pleased with that.  That's 120,000m I've done in the challenge period, and I might squeeze another session in some time tomorrow.

I've noticed that all my PB times are made in daytime sessions rather than evening sessions.  Must be something to do with being tired after a day's work, or maybe I'm just not an evening person.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: andrew w on December 26, 2009, 04:38:47 pm
Another 10,000m on Christmas Eve, so a total of 130,000m in the challenge period (Nov 26 to Dec 24). 

Today I've just had another go at setting a time for 2,000m, in spite of having had a fairly heavy alcoholic day yesterday.  I managed to do 8:08.5, which is 6.3 seconds better than my previous best, achieved four weeks ago.  It seems that training pays off, though I still almost felt tlike throwing up at the end of it.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: simonp on December 27, 2009, 11:25:15 am
Well done, I've not done anything since the 22nd.  I didn't have time on the 23rd and on the 24 I was on the train.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: andrew w on December 31, 2009, 05:54:19 pm
No rowing for me since 28 December, but I did manage to get out on my bike today - first ride since 13 December.  Did 66 miles, making my toal for the year 4,356.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: simonp on January 04, 2010, 04:02:04 pm
So who's up for a yacf virtual team?

Concept2: Virtual Team Challenge (http://www.concept2.com/us/motivation/challenges/team/vtc.asp)
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: simonp on January 04, 2010, 10:10:45 pm
40:48.7  :)  :-\  :-[  :-X  :-X  :sick:

 ;D

I wasn't sick but I did feel a bit funny during the last 1000m - I averaged 1:55 or so for the final 1250m.

That'll be the effect of tapering then (no exercise of note for nearly 2 weeks).
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: andrew w on January 05, 2010, 09:56:08 am
So who's up for a yacf virtual team?

Concept2: Virtual Team Challenge (http://www.concept2.com/us/motivation/challenges/team/vtc.asp)


I'll join you on this, if you want to set up a team.  It'll give me an incentive to cross the snowbound path to the garage, where my rower is.  At the moment, that 10 yards of snow and ice, and the icy temperature in the garage is doing a good job of destroying my willpower.

40:48.7  :)  :-\  :-[  :-X  :-X  :sick:

 ;D

I wasn't sick but I did feel a bit funny during the last 1000m - I averaged 1:55 or so for the final 1250m.

That'll be the effect of tapering then (no exercise of note for nearly 2 weeks).


I'm not surprised you felt a bit funny.  I can't manage 1:55 pace even for a 2,000 metre effort, let alone at the end of a 10,000m row!

If we're going to do the team challenge thing, let me know when you've set up a team, and I'll log on and join it.  I already have an online logbook on the concept2.com website.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: Chris S on January 05, 2010, 10:12:02 am
I'll join too  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: MSeries on January 05, 2010, 10:16:43 am
thinks, I sometimes use a rower for warm ups, maybe I should join. 1000m at a time isn't going to help much though is it ? Perhaps with the lack of cycling I should do more rowing.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: simonp on January 05, 2010, 10:52:38 am
I will try to set up the team this evening.

Every metre counts.  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: MSeries on January 05, 2010, 11:27:07 am
OK, I'll join.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: simonp on January 05, 2010, 08:13:20 pm
This evening, 7299m.  Feeling the effects of yesterday's 10,000m pb.

However there was the added issue of our receptionist - think (.)(.) - arriving and using the rower next to me which threw my concentration a bit!  :-[
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: mike on January 05, 2010, 08:54:38 pm
I'm in, but it's been about 10 years since I sat on an ergo so dont expect too much.. I'll clean the birds nests off the infernal machine tomorrow morning and give it a go.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: Chris S on January 05, 2010, 08:56:27 pm
Tell us what we need to do Bridget. I may get a row in tomorrow.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: simonp on January 05, 2010, 09:12:19 pm
I've just created our team.

Instructions here:

Concept2: How to Join a Team: Information for Team Members (http://www.concept2.com/us/motivation/challenges/team/teammember.asp)

Follow instructions from section 3.  Team name is yacf, it's an open team so no need for me to confirm anyone who joins.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: simonp on January 05, 2010, 09:13:17 pm
PS At the moment we don't show in the ranking because we've only one member; a team must have at least 2 members to qualify.

With the 17299m I've done so far we'd be in 205th place.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: Chris S on January 05, 2010, 09:28:15 pm
Now we're placed :).

I have a horrible feeling I'm going to be the Senior in this team  ::-)
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: andrew w on January 05, 2010, 10:55:59 pm
Now we're placed :).

I have a horrible feeling I'm going to be the Senior in this team  ::-)

I've joined now too.  If you mean "senior" in the sense of oldest team member, you'll have to be going some to beat me.  I'll be 60 in November 2010, and I suspect you're not that old, though I've only met you once. ;D

I should get my first row of 2010 in tomorrow, unless the weather prevents me from getting across the back garden to my garage.

Edit: I've just looked at our team details on the concept2 website - age details are revealed, and I can confirm that you are some way younger than me. :)
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: Chris S on January 05, 2010, 11:01:22 pm
Edit: I've just looked at our team details on the concept2 website - age details are revealed, and I can confirm that you are some way younger than me. :)

So it would seem. It doesn't help my rowing ability (or lack thereof) ;)
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: simonp on January 05, 2010, 11:05:46 pm
Girly on the right was rowing 3:57 or so for 1000m. Meanwhile bloke on my left rowed 5000m at a steady 1:50. GIT. Didn't even have the decency to throw up.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: simonp on January 06, 2010, 12:30:50 am
Hey mike - I see you've signed up to the team but you haven't ticked the box to sign up for the challenge so your metres won't count unless you also do that.

Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: Chris S on January 06, 2010, 08:59:47 am
I have made a contribution  :D. We are now 205th.

How does one stop the excruciating arse pain from that nasty Concept 2 seat?
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: mike on January 06, 2010, 10:00:36 am
folded towel, Godfrey Sports Rowing Kit (http://www.godfrey.co.uk/productviewer.php?selproduct=81&Submit=Go), or HTFU.

hope that helps.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: Chris S on January 06, 2010, 10:07:51 am
hope that helps.

Towel FTW  :thumbsup:

My arse is Brooks shape these days :)
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: Wascally Weasel on January 06, 2010, 01:24:48 pm
Have joined.  Only done a 2km so far this year but have plans for much more.  I only got the Concept2 set up again this weekend (now permanently set up).

My time was a woeful 8:49.  I don't think I have been that slow ever (not even the first time I had a go on an erg nearly ten years ago).

My best time ever for 2km was something like 7:12 but that was erging against other rowers as a test for crew selection (admittedly at only Senior Four level*).  My best solo 2km erg was 7:28 according to my log card - that was back in 2004.  Long way to go to getting that fit again.  My target is to beat that time by the end of summer.


* And we were rubbish This was the same crew that earlier in the year came last in the Thames eights head race.

Edit:  my paltry effort has moved us up to 198th  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: MSeries on January 06, 2010, 02:20:20 pm
Don't worry Wascally Weasel I don't have plans for much more paddling so I'll prop up the team with my warm ups.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: Swarm_Catcher on January 06, 2010, 07:32:28 pm
I've joined and added my 3 ergos retrospectively.  I tend to do 2500 meter sessions.

I could do a long stint on the ergo instead of doing the Poor Student  :-\ 
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: simonp on January 06, 2010, 07:41:15 pm
Glad to have you on board swarm catcher. I was looking at doing some at the gym instead of the PS. Half marathon maybe?

Probably should work up to that. Maybe try a 15,000 first.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: Chris S on January 06, 2010, 08:20:39 pm
I am rapidly succumbing to the lurgy; there may be a lull from the Norfolk member...  ::-)
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: andrew w on January 06, 2010, 09:08:38 pm
Did 10000m tonight.  It was very cold and I felt quite unfit.  Still, things can only get better, can't they?
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: andygates on January 06, 2010, 09:20:12 pm
A fat arse also helps on the seat.   :thumbsup:

I've got three 2500m warmups a week if you want 'em...
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: MSeries on January 06, 2010, 09:24:02 pm
A fat arse also helps on the seat.   :thumbsup:

I've got three 2500m warmups a week if you want 'em...

every metre counts.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: Wascally Weasel on January 06, 2010, 10:46:11 pm
Don't worry Wascally Weasel I don't have plans for much more paddling so I'll prop up the team with my warm ups.

I had plans for a 5km tonight but fettling my old MTB frame for tomorrow's commute won out.  Fell off at the rounbdabout at Kingston Gate on the way home and decided that slick 23mm road tyres were incredibly stupid things to be riding on in the conditions.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: simonp on January 08, 2010, 09:14:27 pm
I've just added the 17282m I did this evening. Btw you are meant to log your metres for the week by the end of Friday to avoid secretly accumulating distance. Also you have to be signed up for it by the 15th.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: Swarm_Catcher on January 09, 2010, 07:37:15 am
Probably should work up to that. Maybe try a 15,000 first.

That is the benefit of joining these challenges.  To get challenged!  "Maybe try a 15,000 first"! Gulp!  I'll see what I can do this afternoon.  I'll be happy with 7,500.

Thanks for reminding us to log by Friday.  Do we have a team target?  Like stay below 200th or beat Cambridge University Alumni?
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: simonp on January 09, 2010, 10:39:08 am
Probably should work up to that. Maybe try a 15,000 first.

That is the benefit of joining these challenges.  To get challenged!  "Maybe try a 15,000 first"! Gulp!  I'll see what I can do this afternoon.  I'll be happy with 7,500.

Thanks for reminding us to log by Friday.  Do we have a team target?  Like stay below 200th or beat Cambridge University Alumni?

I used to be unable to do 1500m let alone 15,000. Last night I did 30 mins (7282m) then did some weights and core stength exercises then did 10,000m. The reason for that is you're not supposed to hog a piece of equipment for more than 30 minutes before 7pm.

My personal goal is to do 100,000m in the month again. Once Chris gets over his flu we will shoot up the table so I'd like us to be well inside the top 200.  Maybe we can be top 150.
 
If you're not used to doing more than 2500m then don't build up distance too rapidly. We don't want injuries. Good luck.

I'm resting today then tomorrow I'll try to do 15,000 I think.

Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: andrew w on January 09, 2010, 05:32:16 pm
I'm aiming to do another 10,000m tomorrow, and to achieve 100,000m by the end of the month.  I might even get to 120,000m, as I plan to do 3 x 10,000m each week (Monday to Sunday), and there are three full weeks left after tomorrow.  Setting the target at 100,000 allows me a bit of leeway for illness/lethargy etc.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: Chris S on January 09, 2010, 05:38:34 pm
Well, I haven't been bed bound today at least. I'll try a little Wii table tennis in a while. If I don't pass out doing that, I might be able to do a 1000m or two on the rower tomorrow.

Edit: Forget it. I had a bad night - and climbing the stairs today is enough to send me into coughing spasms. I suspect if I tried to row, I'd turn myself inside out  :sick:.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: andygates on January 10, 2010, 04:32:10 pm
I'm in.

Hey, while thinking rowy thoughts, I've noticed that my feet pull on the straps at the end of the stroke no matter what I do.  Am I just a huge thigh ox or is this a technique thing?
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: simonp on January 10, 2010, 04:38:31 pm
I've done two 30 minute efforts today with a bit of weights in between.  Now on 48,936m in 7 days.

I only rowed on Monday Tuesday Friday Sunday.  Wednesday was pub, Thursday was hangover.  ::-)  Reckon 200,000m in the month is on now.

We're up to 172nd.  Good work team.  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: Swarm_Catcher on January 10, 2010, 05:31:31 pm
We're up to 172nd.  Good work team.  :thumbsup:
Well done Bridget! Very impressive.

And we're above Cambridge University Alumni :)

And with Andy joining, we only need one more for an eight.

Darn it, I'm hooked.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: andygates on January 10, 2010, 05:36:32 pm
Dunno about an eight, but I did a twenty-two once.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: simonp on January 11, 2010, 09:45:13 pm
If Mike would only tick the box that signs him up for the JVTC (he joined the team) then we'd have 8.  Until he does, any metres he rows aren't counted.

OI, Mike!!!



Anyway, I finally did a 15,000m row this evening.  1:04:12.5 it took.  Had to keep reminding myself to slow down. :)

Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: simonp on January 12, 2010, 09:33:40 pm
Right so.

I've not done any today because my knee's been a bit achy.  :(
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: andrew w on January 12, 2010, 09:46:15 pm
Sorry to hear about the knee, Simon.  Hope it's back to normal tomorrow.  

I did my first 15,000m tonight - not as quickly as you - it took me 1:08:20.8, but I was quite pleased with that.  Mentally, I'd been aiming at 1:09, so I was more or less right on target, and I didn't feel too wasted when I'd finished.  I find I'm much more comfortable with the longer distances, compared with the eyeballs out effort of a 2000m.  Maybe it's an age thing, partly.

Anyway, we're 174th in the rankings after my row.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: simonp on January 12, 2010, 10:12:39 pm
Good work.   :)
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: andygates on January 13, 2010, 08:34:55 pm
183rd!   :o  Quick, someone pile into the other side of this virtual longship and let's go pillaging!
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: Chris S on January 13, 2010, 08:39:43 pm
I'll be cleaning my lungs off my PM3 if I try rowing...  ::-)

cough...cough...cough...cough...cough...cough...cough...cough...cough...
cough...cough...cough...cough...cough...cough...cough...cough...cough...
cough...cough...cough...cough...cough...cough...cough...cough...cough...
cough...cough...cough...cough...cough...cough...cough...cough...cough...
cough...cough...cough...cough...cough...cough...cough...cough...cough...
cough...cough...cough...cough...
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: Swarm_Catcher on January 14, 2010, 09:30:09 am
I did my 7500 this morning which means we've moved down a whole two places! 
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: andrew w on January 14, 2010, 09:13:03 pm
Another 10,000m from me, and we've dropped to 186th!
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: simonp on January 15, 2010, 12:13:09 am
Sorry.  Not done anything since Tuesday on account of my knee having flared up a bit.

Might be having a go again tomorrow if it's fully settled down again, but I'll start with a shorter distance and see how that goes first.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: Swarm_Catcher on January 16, 2010, 01:20:00 pm
on account of my knee having flared up a bit.
Take it easy B - I guess rowing is harder on the knee than cycling.

Did a 15000 for the first time - oh me bum muscles!
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: Chris S on January 16, 2010, 01:46:21 pm
Good News!

I just did 35 minutes on the turbo without expelling my lungs  :thumbsup:.

All being well, I'll be back on the rower RSN.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: Marco Stefano on January 16, 2010, 02:09:39 pm
I would keep the pressure light, resistance low and rating a tad higher if recovering from aches & goo, so you go through the motions without too much oomph. You will still get warm, and pump your lymph system round which helps with recovery.

Been a bit tardy on this thing - I ought to join. 8836m last night.

Anyone near Cambridge at a loose end tomorrow and wants to see the wet end of the sport, it's the first leg of the Winter League head races (on the Cam, A14 bridge to the Green Dragon footbridge, 2.7km). I'm steering a coxless quad on the Cam for the first time; too many bends, aaargh...

Marco, Isle of Ely RC
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: Greenbank on January 16, 2010, 02:10:23 pm
They're upgrading the work gym and will have a lovely shiny Concept 2 rented from, and maintained by, a gym equipment rental company.

Might have to start knocking on the door of the vomitorium at lunch.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: andrew w on January 16, 2010, 07:12:16 pm
Did a 15000 for the first time - oh me bum muscles!

Well done!  :thumbsup:

Another 10,000 from me today, and the time was a PB, so that was good.  As I've remarked before, all my PBs are set in the daytime, normally on a weekend.  I just don't have the same energy on an evening, even when I've only been sitting at a desk all day.

Simon - hope the knee is better soon.  Don't rush back to the rower if it doesn't feel right.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: simonp on January 16, 2010, 07:41:47 pm
My knee feels fine today, but I'm not going to be on the rower until Monday at the earliest, as I am leading the CTC all day ride tomorrow.

I happened to have already booked a physio appointment for wednesday just gone, so when I broke my knee it didn't have to wait long to be seen to.  She did some mobilisation work on it, which along with a bit of rest (though I did cycle to the physio, to work and home that day, due to lack of car) seems to have helped a lot.  I'm apparently over-using my left leg.  She reckons that the imbalance between left and right quads has got worse since I last saw her, not long after LEL, so I have to try to build up my right leg a bit over the next few weeks.

I've got to either switch back to normal tyres on the Galaxy by tomorrow, or do the 60 miles tomorrow on fixed, too.  No-one else volunteered to lead the ride.  And I'm at a party this evening too so there's a lack of time to get things done.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: andrew w on January 17, 2010, 08:16:09 pm
First decent weather in ages, but I couldn't get out on my bike today, as I had things to do at home.  Took the opportunity to do another session on the rower.  I set out thinking that I might do a half marathon, but I wasn't really in the mood, so I gave up at 15,000m.  I think my legs were a bit tired after my 10,000 PB yesterday.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: andrew w on January 20, 2010, 09:47:39 pm
It's all gone quiet on here, hasn't it?  I did 10,000 last night and 10,000 tonight, so that means I've reached my 100,000 target.  Revised target is now 150,000, so that's 50,000 in 11 days - I think I should just about make it.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: simonp on January 20, 2010, 10:45:04 pm
I'm nursing my knee.  Good work andrew and swarm_catcher in particular - we're still ahead of Cambridge Uni Alumni when I checked earlier today.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: Swarm_Catcher on January 21, 2010, 08:24:48 am
I'm nursing my knee.  Good work andrew and swarm_catcher in particular - we're still ahead of Cambridge Uni Alumni when I checked earlier today.

Well thank you!  Good work team.  I'll probably fit in two/three more sessions of 7500 and if I'm not cycling the last weekend, I'll do another 15000. 

A new target of 150000 for andrew deserves a 'chapeau'!
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: Swarm_Catcher on January 24, 2010, 03:38:44 pm
I see we're getting close to the 200 mark, despite andrew's excellent efforts.  So may focus this week on a bit of rowing.  Will do a slow 7500 though tomorrow - bit sore and stiff after the first 200 of the year.

Hope you are having a good weekend.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: simonp on January 24, 2010, 04:30:32 pm
I'll maybe be able to start pulling my weight again this week. I'm just after doing a nearly 40 mile ride so will see how the knee feels tomorrow.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: Chris S on January 24, 2010, 04:32:07 pm
I seem to be on the road to recovery from the lurgy now. Should be able to start upping the ante a bit.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: andrew w on January 24, 2010, 05:54:53 pm
I've had a few days off, but I managed to do a very steady 15000 this morning.  Also managed to get out on my bike today, my first ride of 2010, and nearly 4 weeks since I last turned a pedal.  Only 36 miles, but it felt good to be out again,and I wasn't at all tired at the end of it.  All this rowing must be keeping me ticking over, as I hoped it would. :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: simonp on January 24, 2010, 06:20:55 pm
I haven't cycled all that much lately but I had no trouble riding around at 27kph today. I do think the rowing has been very beneficial.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: Swarm_Catcher on January 27, 2010, 06:04:04 pm
Up to 70k and beginning to feel 100k is within reach.    I don't have to do it ...
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: andrew w on January 27, 2010, 09:35:35 pm
Well done, Swarm_Catcher!

I did a steady 10000 last night, and another one tonight.  I'm aiming to do a third one tomorrow, which will take me up to 145,000 total.  I'll have Friday off, then at the weekend I'll do one more row, of at least 5000m (probably 10000) so that I get to my 150,000 target. 

After that I'm hoping that I'll be able to do more cycling than rowing, but that depends on the weather, as I'm a bit of a fair-weather cyclist. :)
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: andygates on January 28, 2010, 10:01:49 pm
Crikey, upped the resistance a notch today and I'm feeling it. :P
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: Chris S on January 29, 2010, 08:41:36 am
Crikey, upped the resistance a notch today and I'm feeling it. :P

In earlier threads, it was suggested to me that "about halfway" was all you need on the resistance. However - when I've mentioned my rowing to some others - they've said "Ah but, you only have the resistance half way don't you?" like I'm some kind of cheat  >:(.

Halfway seems fine to me.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: andrew w on January 29, 2010, 09:42:13 am
Crikey, upped the resistance a notch today and I'm feeling it. :P

In earlier threads, it was suggested to me that "about halfway" was all you need on the resistance. However - when I've mentioned my rowing to some others - they've said "Ah but, you only have the resistance half way don't you?" like I'm some kind of cheat  >:(.

Halfway seems fine to me.

The resistance on the rower is just like the gears on a bike.  Choose a lower resistance and it requires less effort, but you don't go as far with each stroke.  If someone does a 200k audax on a geared bike, you don't regard them as cheating if they don't do it all in their highest gear, do you? :)

FWIW, I do almost all my rowing at level 2 damper setting.  I only put it up a notch if I'm doing a shorter distance at maximum effort, such as a timed 2000.  Also, as I understand it, in indoor rowing competitions, you are entirely free to choose whatever damper setting you want.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: MSeries on January 29, 2010, 09:51:41 am
Thanks to you lot and this challenge I did 4000m last night. My 1000m warm up, then after my lifting I watched the end of the news and just rowed, for another 3000m !! Level 5 on the gauge.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: Marco Stefano on January 29, 2010, 12:28:56 pm

The resistance on the rower is just like the gears on a bike.  Choose a lower resistance and it requires less effort, but you don't go as far with each stroke. 

Sort of... although if you can fire the muscle sequence quick enough, you will travel well at lower resistance levels. A little like lower fixed gears, you can travel at the same speed if you can spin well enough.

Lower back loading can be high at higher resistances, and is applied for a longer time each stroke. Mine was at level 4, now level 3; there is enough headwind on the river...  :hand:
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: Panoramix on January 29, 2010, 01:07:27 pm
I think that 2 or 3 represent about the feel you get in a light river boat. Too much resistance and it becomes a weight lifting exercise!
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: Chris S on January 29, 2010, 02:26:25 pm
Lunchtime 5000m was a real struggle. Could have been the 3x10 interval session I did on the turbo immediately beforehand that did it  ;D.

Now I need FOOD!
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: Chris S on January 30, 2010, 03:26:36 pm
Woo Hoo! My longest ever row. Didn't break any records, but it felt good!

(http://www.ivytodd.com/images/row15k.jpg)
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: Swarm_Catcher on January 31, 2010, 11:36:13 am
Woo Hoo! My longest ever row. Didn't break any records, but it felt good!
Well done Chris!

And I'm done with rowing for January.  Reached 100K. Very happy.

So, thank you to Simon for putting me onto this.   From a 'might as well log my 2500m stints', to doing a 15K for the first time ever, to reaching 100K for the month.   And its done wonders for my weight target!
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: Greenbank on January 31, 2010, 11:53:21 am
The Concept 2 in our work gym has been refurbished. My excuses have now run dry.

100K a month seems a very long way...
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: Chris S on January 31, 2010, 12:13:50 pm
100K a month seems a very long way...

Meh. 10k two or three times a week. Even a fat slob like me can do 10k in about 40 50 minutes.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: andrew w on January 31, 2010, 09:19:08 pm

And I'm done with rowing for January.  Reached 100K. Very happy.

That's a great effort, Swarm_Catcher, well done! :thumbsup:

I did a final 10,000 tonight, to take my total for the month to 155,000.  That was after a 66 mile bike ride, too.

I see that our team total has now broken the 400,000 mark, so well done, everyone! :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: andygates on January 31, 2010, 09:20:57 pm
Good lord, you machines. :o

I was feeling chuffed to have bumped my warm-up level from 7 to 8...
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: Chris S on February 01, 2010, 09:10:25 am
So, we came 188th? Not bad  :thumbsup:.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: simonp on February 01, 2010, 09:29:45 am
Good work!  Next year I'll try not to drop out. Now what's this month's challenge?
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: Greenbank on February 01, 2010, 02:44:11 pm
About to go downstairs to the work gym. If someone is on the rower I'll do a 22 minute run on the treadmill. At least I have remembered to bring my mp3 player this time.

My hope is that I find that someone has stolen the entire gym and that I can't do either but that's very unlikely.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: Greenbank on February 01, 2010, 03:59:25 pm
Thought about doing 20 minutes but gave up after 10 (see damper setting first time numpty idiocy below).

2154m
24s/m
120.9W average
118 kcal used
2:29.7 per 500m
HRav: 170bpm

Only realised the damper was set at 10 until I'd already started. No-one it felt hideous for a first time in ages row! Arms definitely the first to go.

HR climbed to 166bpm after 2 minutes and then slowly rose up to 181bpm as I got hotter and hotter (also forgot to turn the fan on and point it at me).

Will do the next run with the damper set to 5 at the most, I'm not worried about people thinking it's easier, I'm doing this for myself...

It's a model C with PM2 monitor. Rumours of a new Model D with PM3 coming in a month or so...

100,000km a month challenge sounds about right to me

*goes off to update 2010 fitness goals*
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: simonp on February 02, 2010, 12:13:44 am
Team: I've got to submit the team challenge results.  If there are any results still to be added (must have been rowed before the end of the month) can you put them in within the next 24h then I'll submit on Wednesday.

Ta, and well done.  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: simonp on February 02, 2010, 12:20:11 am
If your arms are getting very tired, technique probably is worth looking at.  I found it so much easier once I'd had some tips.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: Swarm_Catcher on February 02, 2010, 06:44:29 am
Team: I've got to submit the team challenge results.  If there are any results still to be added (must have been rowed before the end of the month) can you put them in within the next 24h then I'll submit on Wednesday.

Ta, and well done.  :thumbsup:

All logged on my part, thanks Bridget.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: Greenbank on February 02, 2010, 11:54:05 am
If your arms are getting very tired, technique probably is worth looking at.  I found it so much easier once I'd had some tips.

Almost certainly.

I'd looked at the video posted in this thread (Thames Rowing Club is just down the road from me!) but only briefly and was too busy worrying about how hideous it feels to do a new form of exercise than concentrate on my technique.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: Greenbank on February 04, 2010, 04:42:59 pm
2154m, 24s/m, 120.9W average, 118 kcal used, 2:29.7 per 500m, HRav: 170bpm

Damper set to 5.

10:00, 2234m, 25s/min, 144.6W average, 132kcal, 2:14.3 per 500m, HRav: 172bpm

Starting to get used to it, still want to stop after a couple of minutes (nothing new there).
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: andygates on February 07, 2010, 07:41:51 pm
Information - Forum - Concept2 (http://concept2.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=20543&p=510561#p510561)

Hywel - TTowel on TriTalk - just nabbed the 100k world record.  :)
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: Chris S on February 09, 2010, 09:43:39 am
I seem to have found a natural rhythm for my rowing.

Once warmed up, if I just aim to keep a consistent form, I seem to fall into a 2:20/500 28spm rhythm that I can sustain. If I close my eyes and "zone out" to the mp3 music, I just seem to maintain this rate naturally.

Anyone else have this effect?
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: simonp on February 09, 2010, 10:15:34 am
Yes I tend to have a natural pace. Struggle to go slower than that for long efforts. More like 24spm though as I've trained myself to have a slower rhythm.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: andygates on February 09, 2010, 01:18:53 pm
I'd have to agree - my C2 logs show the same pace whether I'm making an effort or zoning out, to within 5 seconds / 2500m.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: Swarm_Catcher on February 09, 2010, 01:52:02 pm
as I've trained myself to have a slower rhythm.
Do I need to train myself to go slower?  I'm usually at 30spm.  If I go slower I lose interest.   

Mind you, I've stopped doing the January challenge type sessions and am doing intervals now, still at 30-31spm.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: simonp on February 09, 2010, 06:06:44 pm
as I've trained myself to have a slower rhythm.
Do I need to train myself to go slower?  I'm usually at 30spm.  If I go slower I loose interest.   

Mind you, I've stopped doing the January challenge type sessions and am doing intervals now, still at 30-31spm.

Rowing machines (http://yacf.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=15812.msg295522#msg295522)

And I'm still pulling faster than mike suggests at 24spm (though I've found I'm quite happy at 20spm, but I tend to lose focus and allow it to creep up).
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: Swarm_Catcher on February 09, 2010, 08:06:35 pm
Thanks for that B, hadn't come across that thread.   I know I'm going to struggle, my scores are going to go down and I'll lose heart.  Still, if it's recommended for long term benefit, that's what I'll do.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: Swarm_Catcher on February 15, 2010, 02:15:22 pm
I did this daily work out from Concept2: ROW 40 MINUTES, ALTERNATING STROKE RATE EVERY 5 MINUTES FROM 18 SPM TO 24 SPM TO 30 SPM.

I concentrated at keeping the rate and pretty much ignored my power output while not slacking too much.  Turns out that if found 30 SPM interval really fast! 
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: Chris S on February 16, 2010, 12:47:06 pm
My rowing fu was weak yesterday. The intended 10,000m kind of degenerated into a slow 5000m.

My punishment is to try and beat my 5000m time today. That means better than 2:10 splits; which I find hard going. God knows what's going to happen. I'd better have a bucket handy...  :sick:

Edit: Done. 21:36.2 which is a good deal faster than my best. No bucket required - but I'm toast! Now then - lead me to them pancakes  :thumbsup:.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: simonp on February 18, 2010, 12:49:09 am
I did my first rowing for ages - about 6 weeks - tonight. Paced myself to keep it sensible, 5000m @ 20:35.4. Over a minute slower than pb. Tempo wattage (185 average). Made doing the push ups and sit ups afterwards very hard. :)

It's good to be back. :D
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: RichForrest on February 18, 2010, 10:42:33 am
I've started using one at the gym. How do you keep it under 30spm? apart from just slowing down
I'm finding a natural rhythm at about 36spm with the setting on 7, but to keep it in the 20s would feel like I'm hardly doing anything.
Admittedly I'm only doing 10 minutes as a warm up and not trying to do distance stuff, yet  ;D

Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: Marco Stefano on February 18, 2010, 12:30:16 pm
How do you keep it under 30 spm? Practice. Hands away, rack over from the hips, hold your knees down before the slide moves slowly. It will feel jerky until your leg muscles are trained to do this.

Last night, Model C with damper on 3:
 - warm up for gym & weights, 15 mins at 20spm, last 5 mins 10 strokes race pace & pressure every min.
 - ended session with 15 mins at 16spm, splits about 2:10, about 75% full pressure.

Helps in developing power per stroke, relaxation on recovery and ramping pressure up quickly at the catch without jarring the lower back (says the theory). Usually do this low rate stuff for 40 mins+ in an ergo session in 10 min blocks with no rest, changing rate every 2 mins (e.g. 16/18/16/18/16, or 16/18/20/18/16) to avoid falling aslee...zzzzzzzzz
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: Chris S on February 18, 2010, 12:45:55 pm
What has taken me a lot of practice is to actually feel like you are driving back with your legs. I can now feel it in the balls of my feet as I push back. Upper body is locked, but not pulling as such. Only when the legs have stopped doing useful work (times with the bar passing over your knees) do I put proper upper body input in and pull back.

But - this is only what I've gleaned from watching You Tube videos - so it could all be wrong!
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: Swarm_Catcher on February 18, 2010, 01:44:33 pm
I've started using one at the gym. How do you keep it under 30spm? apart from just slowing down
I'm finding a natural rhythm at about 36spm with the setting on 7, but to keep it in the 20s would feel like I'm hardly doing anything.
Admittedly I'm only doing 10 minutes as a warm up and not trying to do distance stuff, yet  ;D
Hi Rich,

I wondered the same only recently, because I always row at around 30spm.   Then I did this 'daily work' out from Concept2: ROW 40 MINUTES, ALTERNATING STROKE RATE EVERY 5 MINUTES FROM 18 SPM TO 24 SPM TO 30 SPM.  Although I found the first 5 mins at 18spm hard to do, at the end I found 30spm really fast.  I was surprised.

The way I made it work was by counting on recovery.  So you take the first stroke, and recover ... 1 2 3 4.  As soon as I thought I had the hang of this and stopped counting, my stroke rate went up.  Then I would count recovery to 5 to get back on track (I was even counting faster!).
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: simonp on February 18, 2010, 02:55:01 pm
I did 23-24 spm last night. Nice and steady. More force in each stroke, don't rush it.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: Chris S on February 22, 2010, 05:24:48 pm
Ugh... The 100 push challenge and a new PB on today's 10,000m just don't mix. Push-up FAIL. Could barely finish the first set in today's program.

I may switch days so 10,000m day isn't on push-up day.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: simonp on March 01, 2010, 09:43:50 pm
Did 10,000m in 42:12.1 after an utter fail on the push-ups week 5 col 3 day 1.

I have blisters again.  :hand:

Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: simonp on March 01, 2010, 09:47:25 pm
March madness sounds like fun:

Concept2: March Madness (http://www.concept2.com/us/motivation/challenges/individual/marchmadness.asp)

Quote
Choose from two levels of participation:

    * The Basic Challenge: Row or ski 5000 meters each day for 25 days or more in March.
    * The Advanced Challenge: Row or ski 10,000 meters each day for 25 days or more in March.


I guess getting 10,000m in on 1st March (before I saw the challenge) was a mistake wasn't it?  Now I only have 24 more to do.

Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: rower40 on March 06, 2010, 02:02:44 pm
<Woohoo!>
I put my boat on the water for the first time this year.  I did 6 miles, mostly very slowly.  But I was still faster than the Men's Novice 8.

[Litany of excuses follows]
Bad weather (snow, ice), river too high/too fast, insufficient supplies of get-up-and-row, new rules forbidding single-sculling at night.  (I'm still very cross about the last of these - I go out cycling instead, and which activity has a larger risk of serious injury?)
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: Swarm_Catcher on March 07, 2010, 03:38:57 pm
Now I only have 24 more to do.
How is it going B?
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: simonp on March 07, 2010, 03:56:28 pm
Now I only have 24 more to do.
How is it going B?

No chance. I did another 10K on Wednesday. Swimming club thursday, rest day Friday, 200k yesterday, lazy day today. I can't get more than about two 10K rows in a week with everything else.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: mike on March 07, 2010, 03:59:59 pm
<Woohoo!>
I put my boat on the water for the first time this year.  I did 6 miles, mostly very slowly.  But I was still faster than the Men's Novice 8.

[Litany of excuses follows]
Bad weather (snow, ice), river too high/too fast, insufficient supplies of get-up-and-row, new rules forbidding single-sculling at night.  (I'm still very cross about the last of these - I go out cycling instead, and which activity has a larger risk of serious injury?)


very envious!  I sold mine about 4 years ago and still regret it.  I never went out in the dark though :)
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: FatBloke on March 07, 2010, 04:04:57 pm
...new rules forbidding single-sculling at night.  (I'm still very cross about the last of these - I go out cycling instead, and which activity has a larger risk of serious injury?)


Not many people get drownded whilst cycling (apart from Nutty!).   ;D
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: simonp on March 07, 2010, 08:28:58 pm
Now I only have 24 more to do.
How is it going B?

No chance. I did another 10K on Wednesday. Swimming club thursday, rest day Friday, 200k yesterday, lazy day today. I can't get more than about two 10K rows in a week with everything else.

It might be a bit easier if the gym was a bit closer to home and didn't close at 2pm at the weekend.  David Lloyd is only about 1 1/4 miles from home, but is about 3x the price of the gym on the science park.  But with the hours I keep (working on the late side of our flexible hours) and I leave work at 7pm, a gym that closes at 9pm is very annoying also.  I finished Wednesday's rowing at 8.53pm, no time for a shower, so cycled all sweaty to meet up with colleagues at the pub.  ::-)  A colleague has just joined the David Lloyd one and reports it closes at 11.30pm.

Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: simonp on March 09, 2010, 10:21:14 pm
10,000m today.  Took it nice and slow - 43:41.0 in the end.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: andrew w on March 10, 2010, 01:03:50 pm
10,000m today.  Took it nice and slow - 43:41.0 in the end.

I did 43:45.8 on Saturday, and I thought that was quite quick! Not quite a PB, but not all that far off it. :(
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: andygates on March 10, 2010, 04:15:54 pm
RB's David Lloyd is everso plush.  Real "health club" stuff.  Spendy but probably worth it - there were no nasty floaters in the pool, even!

Now, how well does C2 rowing translate into kayak..?
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: Chris S on March 10, 2010, 04:29:09 pm
Mr YACF Team Cap'n Sir?

World Rowing Challenge - 15 March to 15 April.

Are we?
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: simonp on March 11, 2010, 12:41:22 am
10,000m today.  Took it nice and slow - 43:41.0 in the end.

I did 43:45.8 on Saturday, and I thought that was quite quick! Not quite a PB, but not all that far off it. :(

Ah right sorry about that. Average power of 155W. Which is right at the bottom end of the aerobic endurance training zone for me.

I used to find not much faster really challenging. I'm really noticing the difference from the amount of cycling I'm doing now.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: simonp on March 11, 2010, 12:58:16 am
Mr YACF Team Cap'n Sir?

World Rowing Challenge - 15 March to 15 April.

Are we?

We are now. Thanks for the pointer. Everyone who wants to take part will need to sign up for the challenge as well.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: andrew w on March 11, 2010, 09:11:25 am
Mr YACF Team Cap'n Sir?

World Rowing Challenge - 15 March to 15 April.

Are we?

We are now. Thanks for the pointer. Everyone who wants to take part will need to sign up for the challenge as well.

I've just signed up for this.  It will give me an incentive to keep on rowing as the evenings get lighter.  I probably won't do as much as I did in the last challenge, but I might manage 10,000 metres 3 times a week.

Quote from: Bridget
Ah right sorry about that. Average power of 155W. Which is right at the bottom end of the aerobic endurance training zone for me.

I used to find not much faster really challenging. I'm really noticing the difference from the amount of cycling I'm doing now.

That's OK, I was only jesting.  I think it's an age thing, partly - VO2 max gradually declines with age, and I'm 59 now.  Maybe I could have have gone quicker 20 years ago, although I didn't actually do any rowing then. :)

Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: Swarm_Catcher on March 11, 2010, 01:47:53 pm
I'm in.  My target is 100K, made up from interval sessions.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: Chris S on March 11, 2010, 02:33:48 pm
Right, I'm in too. I've not been rowing much in the last couple of weeks - concentrating on cycling instead; the cross-training will do me good.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: Marco Stefano on March 12, 2010, 12:28:36 pm
Mr YACF Team Cap'n Sir?

World Rowing Challenge - 15 March to 15 April.

Are we?

Is this a Concept 2 thing? Can't find any reference to it - can someone point me in the right direction, please? Ta.

Blisters, Bridget - get wrists set so that line down forearm and hand is straight at the catch, & keep handle in light grip with fingers & thumb so that the palm does not really contact the grip. Hey presto, no blisters.

Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: Swarm_Catcher on March 12, 2010, 12:36:08 pm
Clicky (http://www.concept2.com/us/motivation/challenges/team/wrc.asp)
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: simonp on March 12, 2010, 02:50:25 pm
Mr YACF Team Cap'n Sir?

World Rowing Challenge - 15 March to 15 April.

Are we?

Is this a Concept 2 thing? Can't find any reference to it - can someone point me in the right direction, please? Ta.

Blisters, Bridget - get wrists set so that line down forearm and hand is straight at the catch, & keep handle in light grip with fingers & thumb so that the palm does not really contact the grip. Hey presto, no blisters.



I started doing that. It's stopped the palm blisters but when I'm not used to rowing I get blisters on the middle and 4th fingers, but not as bad.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: Greenbank on March 12, 2010, 02:53:46 pm
The work gym refurbishment should have been done (Wed/Thu this week) so I may go down and see what it's like.

Hopefully the new Concept II model D will have a PM3 or PM4 instead of the old one with a PM2.

I could do with doing 2000m to sweat out the remains of my hangover.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: Greenbank on March 15, 2010, 09:29:56 am
The work gym refurbishment should have been done (Wed/Thu this week) so I may go down and see what it's like.

Hopefully the new Concept II model D will have a PM3 or PM4 instead of the old one with a PM2.

Hurrah! It's a PM3! Think I may go for 5000m today if I can find the time...

(And the two treadmills were broken but at least it's now maintained equipment so we can get them fixed quickly.)
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: Greenbank on March 15, 2010, 03:52:55 pm
Only time for 10 mins (actually, had selected the 5000m program but bailed at 10min due to just not being in the zone). Paltry 2183m but chugging along at only ~170bpm.

The plan on doing 100,000m a month seems rather daunting, but the plan (again) is to see if I can get 'properly fit' this year. :-/
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: simonp on March 16, 2010, 09:31:40 pm
10,000m, 43:05.7.  Low-mid 140bpm for most of it.  It felt stupidly easy to start with, so I upped the pace a bit from last week.  Training effect from 200km & 300km weekends back to back, I think.


Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: simonp on March 16, 2010, 09:33:16 pm
I see swarm_catcher has been busy. We're 85th at the moment.  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: andrew w on March 16, 2010, 09:51:56 pm
We're 71st as of now.  I've just added my 30 minutes worth (6724m).
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: simonp on March 19, 2010, 10:12:01 pm
Doing well chaps.  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: andrew w on March 25, 2010, 10:05:28 pm
Just added another 10,000m, not that it seems to be having much effect on our drift down the rankings (154th as of now).  Not that I'm bothered about the rankings, I just row to keep up my aerobic fitness during the week, as I don't cycle much except at weekends.

I passed a small personal milestone on the rower just now, as tonight's row took me past 500,000m since I took up rowing again last November.  So that's at least 100k a month for the past 5 months.  I'm quite pleased with that, though I really don't know how much good it's done me.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: Chris S on March 25, 2010, 10:20:00 pm
I'm finding it tough to get enough time. More cycling, less gym/rowing time.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: simonp on March 26, 2010, 12:31:01 am
I'm finding it tough to get enough time. More cycling, less gym/rowing time.

+1

However, I think I will be having an easier week next week on the bike, and no swimming club for a while so will try to do more then.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: Swarm_Catcher on March 26, 2010, 07:01:09 am
I'm finding it tough to get enough time. More cycling, less gym/rowing time.

+1

Same here, and I'm doing the rowing sessions for the sake of clocking meters, at the cost of resistance training and core work.  I'm going to put that right from today.  Mind you I'm doing the Dean tomorrow, so maybe a light swim would be good.  See you there B?
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: simonp on March 26, 2010, 01:19:51 pm
I'm finding it tough to get enough time. More cycling, less gym/rowing time.

+1

Same here, and I'm doing the rowing sessions for the sake of clocking meters, at the cost of resistance training and core work.  I'm going to put that right from today.  Mind you I'm doing the Dean tomorrow, so maybe a light swim would be good.  See you there B?

Yup, bright and early tomorrow morning.  Will be trying to get round a bit faster than in 2008.  ::-)
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: RichForrest on March 26, 2010, 01:49:38 pm
Still only doing 2000m 3 times a week as a warm-up to the gym work.
I must find my mp3 player though if I find myself doing more. 10 minutes is about long enough on it while only looking at a wall.

Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: simonp on March 26, 2010, 01:55:27 pm
The gym I use has the rowing machines facing the rear of the bank of treadmills.

However, even then I prefer to have some music on.  I don't tend to like the music in the gym, though I did discover "In for the Kill" there.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: rower40 on March 27, 2010, 02:27:10 pm
Second Sculling Outing of the year.  Another 5 miles, bright sunshine but blustery wind.  River was a bit higher than normal, and quite swirly.  I'd been coxing a Veteran Novice Crew in a four, and needed some outlet for the adrenaline that had built up.  My single was uber-stable compared to the four.  (Bless 'em, they haven't yet learnt how to balance a boat!)

I've told them we're meeting at 9am tomorrow, not 8am.  Because 8am will feel like 7am!
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: Manotea on April 02, 2010, 12:05:16 am
I normally do 2000m as a gym warmup, but tonight went 30 minutes for 6666m which isn't terribly great but is in fact the longest/furthest I've ever gone. I generally find rowing quite 'hard work' as on the one hand its incredibly boring and on the other I have to concentrate on technique,  but I'm starting to get to the point where I can 'zone out' and think about other things whilst keeping the effort/stroke rate up. Beach Boys 'Sounds of Summer' helps. Its a slippery slope...
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: simonp on April 05, 2010, 02:16:43 pm
I got a letter saying that the gym will be under new management from 1st April.  So since my DD has been cancelled, presumably I need to rejoin.

In which case, it might be the impetus I need to go find out about expensiveGym since it's much more convenient for home.

Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: mattc on April 05, 2010, 03:18:16 pm
Another 5 miles, bright sunshine but blustery wind.  River was a bit higher than normal, and quite swirly.

Your rowing machine is outdoors?!? Still, sounds like you have a nice view ...
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: rower40 on April 06, 2010, 10:54:48 pm
Another 5 miles, bright sunshine but blustery wind.  River was a bit higher than normal, and quite swirly.

Your rowing machine is outdoors?!? Still, sounds like you have a nice view ...
It's one of these (http://www.carldouglas.co.uk/index-m.html).  Yes, it does look nice.  Pity about the sack of s**t that pretends to be the engine.  I only did 4 miles today, in quite a strong wind against the stream (causing waves).
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: mike on April 07, 2010, 10:37:07 am
Another 5 miles, bright sunshine but blustery wind.  River was a bit higher than normal, and quite swirly.

Your rowing machine is outdoors?!? Still, sounds like you have a nice view ...
It's one of these (http://www.carldouglas.co.uk/index-m.html).  Yes, it does look nice.  Pity about the sack of s**t that pretends to be the engine.  I only did 4 miles today, in quite a strong wind against the stream (causing waves).

wind from the north at Ely?  Always a joy, I've been swamped a couple of times up there..
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: Marco Stefano on April 07, 2010, 07:08:12 pm
No, that's me in Ely, not rower40. But you're right, been caught out sculling to Littleport into a breeze which gets worse; turning round is horrible, then it's like surfing all the way back. Sadly only in a Swift, not a CD.

Still, we should be short of Cambridge launches for a while, so there's another few wave machines gone...  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: simonp on April 26, 2010, 05:05:08 pm
I just had a look at the WRC results - swarm_catcher wins the prize for the most yacf team metres.  174th which ain't bad.

My contribution was not so good. :(

Did a 10,000 last week but not getting much time to row at the moment.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: Manotea on June 04, 2010, 01:09:14 pm
I did a 7:55 2k on the C2 last night. My first sub 8min effort for.... a very long time.

Made a tadge harder as it followed a 50km outing on the bike in the morning. I can sure feel it in my quads/hams when I row after cycling.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: simonp on June 09, 2010, 10:35:54 pm
Did 10,000m tonight - first effort for ages.  It felt surprisingly easy at an average of 2:07.4, and my HR for the most part was mid 140s.

Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: simonp on June 25, 2010, 09:45:31 pm
39:52.6  :o
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: simonp on June 30, 2010, 08:33:28 pm
39:52.6  :o

Obviously, that was too slow, so I went for it tonight from the start, and did 39:29.3.   :-[  :-[  :-X  :-X  :-X  :sick:  ;D
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: Swarm_Catcher on July 07, 2010, 04:13:43 pm
Anyone doing Dog Day of Summer in August? 

Clicky (http://www.concept2.com/us/motivation/challenges/individual/dogdays.asp)
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: simonp on July 07, 2010, 04:15:06 pm
Anyone doing Dog Day of Summer in August? 

Clicky (http://www.concept2.com/us/motivation/challenges/individual/dogdays.asp)

I won't be - I'm riding the Mille Miglia Italia and that would be crazy to do around that.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: Swarm_Catcher on July 07, 2010, 10:30:38 pm
Anyone doing Dog Day of Summer in August? 

Clicky (http://www.concept2.com/us/motivation/challenges/individual/dogdays.asp)

I won't be - I'm riding the Mille Miglia Italia and that would be crazy to do around that.

Quite right Simon, good luck in Italy!
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: andygates on July 08, 2010, 09:50:13 am
I might try for it outdoors inna kayak...
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: Manotea on July 28, 2010, 11:00:12 pm
A 7:50 2km tonight, probably my best ever, Such As It Is.

How anybody does 10km on an erg, god only knows. All I can say is they must be made of sterner stuff then me to stay focused for that long.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: Panoramix on July 28, 2010, 11:42:06 pm
I was very disappointed to see Simon ignoring the rowing machine which was available at the sleep stop of the Mille Cymry  ;D
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: simonp on July 28, 2010, 11:50:19 pm
I was very disappointed to see Simon ignoring the rowing machine which was available at the sleep stop of the Mille Cymry  ;D

I have to admit to thinking about having a go, but reasoned my knees wouldn't thank me.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: simonp on July 28, 2010, 11:52:33 pm
A 7:50 2km tonight, probably my best ever Such As It Is.

How anybody does 10km on an erg, god only knows. All I can say is they must be made of sterner stuff then me to stay focused for that long.

iPod. Raconteurs albums. Receptionist from work with the big boobs not helpful. I changed gym.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: Manotea on August 04, 2010, 10:38:00 pm
A 7:50 7:37 2km tonight, probably my best ever, Such As It Is.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: simonp on August 04, 2010, 10:43:41 pm
Good work!  I've not done any for weeks.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: mike on August 05, 2010, 08:20:58 am
I did one! My first 2k in about eight years after I joined the local gym because it was cheaper to join the whole thing and get free swimming than to PAYG to the pool 3x a week, and as part of the compulsory induction they made me warm up on the erg and I quite enjoyed it so it's become the main part of my fortnightly gym session.   

Struggled through a 2k a couple of weeks back in 7.28, about a minute off my best from 10 years ago.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: Chris S on August 18, 2010, 08:57:21 am
Dear oh dear...   :-\

In case anyone was wondering, a fixed SR doesn't do anything to maintain rowing fitness. Just did the first 5,000m session since April. Ugh... that was rough. Exactly 23m, so slow as well as painful.

Ah well, the only way is up...
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: FatBloke on August 22, 2010, 11:31:43 am
As of yesterday I am the owner of a 10 year old Concept 2 which has practically never been used.

11 years ago I did a 6:54 for 2000m that gave me a world ranking of 124th.

I think I will be much lower down now!   :-\
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: Manotea on August 22, 2010, 08:02:30 pm
If I had my time again I'd have bought one twenty years ago so the whole family could have enoyed it. Well perhaps enjoy isn't quite the word...

Too late now. Sob.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: simonp on August 22, 2010, 08:07:38 pm
I used to hate it.  Couldn't get through 1500m when I was 25.  HR in the 180s getting down to 2:05/500.

I find it much easier now. :)
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: Swarm_Catcher on August 27, 2010, 02:18:07 pm
Dog Days of Summer ... done and getting the T-shirt.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: Chris S on August 30, 2010, 07:51:25 pm
Dear oh dear...

I ranked myself for 10,000m today on the Concept 2 logbook.

302 out of 345 in my rank (50-59 yrs).  >:(

I have some work to do. HTF do you do 10k in 35 mins?  :o
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: Manotea on August 30, 2010, 08:00:08 pm
Dear oh dear...

I ranked myself for 10,000m today on the Concept 2 logbook.

302 out of 345 in my rank (50-59 yrs).  >:(

I have some work to do. HTF do you do 10k in 35 mins?  :o

I'll let you know as soon as I do!
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: simonp on August 30, 2010, 08:12:24 pm
Dear oh dear...

I ranked myself for 10,000m today on the Concept 2 logbook.

302 out of 345 in my rank (50-59 yrs).  >:(

I have some work to do. HTF do you do 10k in 35 mins?  :o

You maintain a shade over 300 Watts for 35 minutes.

Never gonna happen.

For my PB of 39:29 I would have had to maintain 211 Watts for that time.

Calculators here:

Concept2: Watts Calculator (http://www.concept2.com/us/interactive/calculators/watts.asp)

Put in your target time and distance into the pace calculator, work out the pace, put that into the Watts calculator, then give up and have a beer.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: andygates on August 30, 2010, 08:15:08 pm
Not quite rowing, but I was out for 3:30 today in the kayak and did 14km.  I am, needless to say, verrah stiff and sore.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: simonp on August 30, 2010, 08:31:59 pm
I'm 159th out of 424 in the 30-39 age group across light weight and heavyweight; 18th out of 59 in lightweight.

I was probably pretty knackered at the time as it was done 3 days after cycling about 320km round trip to/from a 200 and in the middle of my Hyper Randonneur series.

Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: Chris S on August 31, 2010, 06:24:25 pm
I've just done my first ever 30'.

6705m, which according to my ranking is this: Crap.

Lots more work to do in the coming months - I would at least like to reach the "average" for my ranking (7042m).
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: Manotea on September 08, 2010, 01:46:29 am
5k in 20:15 this evening, another world record. A couple of minutes better than last time out and a much more controlled effort compared with my previous 'fall off the machine & crawl into an iron lung' finish. Could have got under 20 minutes as I was actutally pacing myself for 10k but I rather lost the will to live at the half way point. The question is not so much 'how does anybody row 10k in 35 minutes but rather 'how does anybody row for 35 minutes because it is so incredibly boring'.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: campagman on September 14, 2010, 08:43:53 pm
I have joined the Gym at work where they have some Concept2 rowers. Being inspired by this thread, I thought I would use these more over the coming winter. I have looked at the programmes on the Concept2 site and see that they use heart rate to gauge intensity. This is good for me as I have not got into the world of Power meters yet. Similar to cycling the training zones are based on Max Heart Rate. I thought that Max HR was quite sport specific. Can somebody enlighten me how their rowing Max Hr compares to their Cycling Max HR? As rowing is more of a whole body activity I would expect the rowing Max HR to be higher, maybe.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: Chris S on September 14, 2010, 09:12:32 pm
Good question.

For a constant HR - rowing is MUCH harder than cycling for me. If I row to a HR of 150, I'm right on the ragid edge, sweating profusely, and in the end it's unsustainable. If I cycle at 150, I can keep it up for hours - on road, or on turbo - and still be conversational.

Equally, what is a "Workout" on the rower (130-150bpm), is a "Warmup" on the turbo.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: simonp on September 14, 2010, 09:18:24 pm
5k in 20:15 this evening, another world record. A couple of minutes better than last time out and a much more controlled effort compared with my previous 'fall off the machine & crawl into an iron lung' finish. Could have got under 20 minutes as I was actutally pacing myself for 10k but I rather lost the will to live at the half way point. The question is not so much 'how does anybody row 10k in 35 minutes but rather 'how does anybody row for 35 minutes because it is so incredibly boring'.

iPod.  Use a machine facing the treadmills.  etc.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: simonp on September 14, 2010, 09:20:56 pm
I can maintain around 180bpm during a 10,000m effort on the rower, and my maximum achieved HR on the rower in the last 12 months is 195, compared to about 190 on the bike.

OK, so I only did this once, and I was heading for hypoxia at 185bpm during the final 500m.

My theory: It uses more muscle groups and can thus load your system harder, since muscle fatigue then becomes less of an issue as the load is more evenly spread.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: Chris S on September 14, 2010, 09:21:08 pm
iPod.  Use a machine facing the treadmills.  etc.

Depends who is on the treadmills.

Nobody likes a fat bloke in lycra on a rowing machine, sporting a semi.  :sick:
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: simonp on September 14, 2010, 09:52:26 pm
iPod.  Use a machine facing the treadmills.  etc.

Depends who is on the treadmills.

Nobody likes a fat bloke in lycra on a rowing machine, sporting a semi.  :sick:

Who are you calling fat?  >:(

Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: Manotea on September 23, 2010, 11:00:37 pm
19:50 for 5k tonight. Controlled but still working too hard to relax into longer efforts.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: Chris S on September 23, 2010, 11:03:45 pm
19:50 for 5k tonight. Controlled but still working too hard to relax into longer efforts.

Way faster than me. Ease up a bit, and adopt the randonneur's 1,000 yard stare and 10K can be yours easy enough.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: simonp on September 23, 2010, 11:24:57 pm
When I was able to do 19:32 for 5K I was looking like about 41-42 minutes for 10K; you need to drop the pace a fair bit.

The 39:29 was scary.  I felt really odd during the final 250m.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: Chris S on September 23, 2010, 11:27:51 pm
44:48 is my "best" for 10K.

You youngsters...  ::-)
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: simonp on September 23, 2010, 11:32:58 pm
When I was 25 I couldn't do 1500m.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: Manotea on September 27, 2010, 10:04:14 pm
Ahem. 40:50.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: simonp on September 27, 2010, 10:06:46 pm
Ahem. 40:50.

Not at all bad!
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: Chris S on September 28, 2010, 06:06:51 pm
Oh my. My slowest 10k ever... 52:36  :o

Back to back 200s is not good for rowing form  ::-).
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: simonp on September 28, 2010, 06:22:49 pm
I did my pb 3 days after riding 330km (61k each way to/from a 210).  Three later, after I rode the final of my 4 600s.

This may go towards explaining why I was overtrained and my face kept peeling off until about a month ago.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: simonp on October 08, 2010, 08:38:29 pm
5000m, first rowing since late June. Had to keep reminding myself to keep it steady: 20:34.7. Then 30 minutes treadmill at 8kph.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: Manotea on October 11, 2010, 11:15:45 pm
Oh my. My slowest 10k ever... 41:25

Also my second 10k ever...
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: simonp on October 11, 2010, 11:21:31 pm
I'd quite like to do another 5K soon.  But I have to remember that I have all this other stuff I'd like to do.

So, I just did 42 lengths of the pool tonight.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: simonp on November 10, 2010, 12:37:24 am
Remember this?

Concept2: Holiday Challenge (http://www.concept2.com/us/motivation/challenges/individual/holchal.asp)

Well, it's that time of year again. Who's up for spending the month leading up to Christmas killing themselves on the rowing machine?
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: Swarm_Catcher on November 10, 2010, 06:43:44 am
Remember this?

Concept2: Holiday Challenge (http://www.concept2.com/us/motivation/challenges/individual/holchal.asp)

Well, it's that time of year again. Who's up for spending the month leading up to Christmas killing themselves on the rowing machine?


Me, why not! ... must make a note of the start date ...
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: Chris S on November 10, 2010, 08:09:15 am
Remember this?

Concept2: Holiday Challenge (http://www.concept2.com/us/motivation/challenges/individual/holchal.asp)

Well, it's that time of year again. Who's up for spending the month leading up to Christmas killing themselves on the rowing machine?


OK.  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: andrew w on November 13, 2010, 09:21:34 pm
Remember this?

Concept2: Holiday Challenge (http://www.concept2.com/us/motivation/challenges/individual/holchal.asp)

Well, it's that time of year again. Who's up for spending the month leading up to Christmas killing themselves on the rowing machine?


The PM2 monitor on my machine has recently died on me.  I've ordered a PM3 (for £200, ouch!) and I hope to get it fitted shortly.  As long as I can get it to work OK, I'll be signing up for this.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: simonp on November 14, 2010, 12:55:59 am
I did my first 5k for some time last night. 20:38.3. Took it easy.

Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: Manotea on November 14, 2010, 05:43:03 am
Riding up to the AGM during the first week of the challenge period makes this more than a challenge...
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: simonp on November 14, 2010, 10:26:18 am
I did it last year starting on 1st December.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: simonp on November 15, 2010, 11:48:26 pm
5000m again. Upped the pace to 1:51 at 500m and then at 100m went to 1:37. 187bpm.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: Manotea on November 16, 2010, 11:02:21 pm
5K tonight mostly around 2:07. Finished circa 21:00.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: Chris S on November 16, 2010, 11:04:32 pm
5K tonight mostly around 2:07. Finished circa 21:00.

Top work Mr O'Tea. And Simon.

Now - are we making a team for the November challenge thingy?
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: Manotea on November 16, 2010, 11:23:13 pm
5K tonight mostly around 2:07. Finished circa 21:00.

Top work Mr O'Tea. And Simon.

Now - are we making a team for the November challenge thingy?

Happy to but I'll not be starting until 30th Nov and I'll lose another couple of days in December.

Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: simonp on November 16, 2010, 11:35:14 pm
Despite last night's 5000 and today's half hour running I managed a 19:41.0. About 8.7s slower than my PB. Then 20 minutes swim.

Legs <===== heavy.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: mike on November 16, 2010, 11:36:38 pm
I did a 2K! a steady 7.45 (over a minute down on my best ever), starting gently then finishing at 1.35 for the last hundred or so (which surprised my legs & lungs).

still hate the damn machines.  Not sure i've got the mental steel to get beyond 2k any more.  
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: saturn on November 17, 2010, 09:43:59 am
OK, I've read a good chunk of this thread, wondering if I should give it a go so sell it to me!

I only ever do 1km, just making sure I do it in under 5 mins because I only go on the rower for a break between other things. Typically I do 20 mins bike, circuit of the weights machines, 5 mins rowing, 10 mins cross trainer or maybe treadmill, another weights circuit, 20 mins bike max effort.

I've no specific objective just general fitness, improving cycling endurance and introducing a bit of balance to counteract concentrating on cycling. Would I benefit from more time / effort rowing? Should I start by doing 1km faster or increase the distance first? BTW, to do the 1km in 4:30 requires a hard effort and I wouldn't be able to continue for much longer at that pace. I don't mind dropping the cross trainer in favour of more rowing but I still want to do the other stuff so I don't want the rowing to reduce me to jelly and I can't see me ever doing anything like 5km but if someone wants to try to sell it to me, go ahead.

Oh yes, one more question, I couldn't see any reference to resistance level above - how do you decide what resistance level to use?
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: Manotea on November 17, 2010, 10:11:03 am
OK, I've registered on the concept2 log as Manotea and created team YACF and requested creation of club affiliation YACF.

The holiday challenge is a individual thing but we can track/communicate using the club affiliation YACF and/or by liting each other a training buddies through our individual profile.

The team registration only applies to team challenges, the next one running through Jan2011.

I've also a forum (of course) which you register to separately. The question is whether to have a TeamYACF thread over there or continue to chat here, or a bit of both.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: Chris S on November 17, 2010, 10:13:59 am
Oh yes, one more question, I couldn't see any reference to resistance level above - how do you decide what resistance level to use?

There's a sequence here: Cross Training: Rowing (http://yacf.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=23807.msg535589#msg535589)
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: Manotea on November 17, 2010, 10:35:58 am
OK, I've read a good chunk of this thread, wondering if I should give it a go so sell it to me!

I only ever do 1km, just making sure I do it in under 5 mins because I only go on the rower for a break between other things. Typically I do 20 mins bike, circuit of the weights machines, 5 mins rowing, 10 mins cross trainer or maybe treadmill, another weights circuit, 20 mins bike max effort.

I've no specific objective just general fitness, improving cycling endurance and introducing a bit of balance to counteract concentrating on cycling. Would I benefit from more time / effort rowing? Should I start by doing 1km faster or increase the distance first? BTW, to do the 1km in 4:30 requires a hard effort and I wouldn't be able to continue for much longer at that pace. I don't mind dropping the cross trainer in favour of more rowing but I still want to do the other stuff so I don't want the rowing to reduce me to jelly and I can't see me ever doing anything like 5km but if someone wants to try to sell it to me, go ahead.

Oh yes, one more question, I couldn't see any reference to resistance level above - how do you decide what resistance level to use?

Hi Saturn.

IANARower.

I mostly use the erg as a warmup before moving on to the weights in the gym, mostly core and upper body stuff as riding fixed gives my legs all the exercise they need. I mostly do 2km (~8:00) and occaisionly a 5 (21:00) or 10 (42:00). It has taken me about 8months to work up to this level, and it was a struggle to do 1km when I started. My target/approach was first to acheive the distance and then work on time/working harder. I find using the erg is as much about mental strength as workrate. Focusing on technique makes every stroke so much more efficient but requires concentration which is hard to maintain at lower fitness levels. Happily as you get fitter and technique improves it gets easier, so that you 'relax' into the session and time goe by more quickly, but 5km is till a challenge and 10k a real test (I've only done a couple of 10s so far). Doubtless some will say that if its getting eaier then I'm not working hard enough! I think I'm just about fit enough to follow the Workout of the Day on the concept2 website and will use this as the basis for the January team challenge.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: Manotea on November 17, 2010, 10:44:22 am
Oh yes, one more question, I couldn't see any reference to resistance level above - how do you decide what resistance level to use?

There's a sequence here: Cross Training: Rowing (http://yacf.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=23807.msg535589#msg535589)

Hmm, I use level '8'...



Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: simonp on November 17, 2010, 10:51:44 am
I always use level 4. I used to find 1500m hard. 5000m at 20:30 or so is now not challenging. Under 20:00 is where it starts to push me hard. I wish to do a 18:59 one day.

For my age/weight/sex group the 25th centile is 19:45. So yesterday's 19:41 is not stellar.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: saturn on November 17, 2010, 12:15:50 pm
OK thanks Chris S & Manotea. I've been using resistance 7 or 8, I tried putting it down to 5 on Monday and I seemed to struggle to do my normal distance in the same time but that might have been because I was faffing about trying to improve my technique rather than putting in the effort.

Maybe lower resistance will make the jump from 1km to 2km more palatable so I'll try 2km at level 4 and then work on trying to improve whatever time that brings in. I guess lower resistance will also mean it'll be less likely to impact on other exercises afterwards too.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: simonp on November 17, 2010, 12:37:33 pm
Technique is a big factor.  Most people are probably over-using their arms.  I generally reduce the stroke rate nowadays compared to what I used to.  When I do a 20:30 I'll average 23spm.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: Panoramix on November 17, 2010, 12:50:42 pm
A lower setting force you to row at a higher rate, as Simon says the most common pitfall is to use only your arms.

In rowing clubs they start coaching you how to use your legs and body and then make you increase the rate. A good amateur crew will rate 30 spm at "cruising speed" with everybody still pushing hard on their legs. Sprinting is generally achieved by increasing the rate and force output jointly.

I haven't rowed for ages so I am now just an armchair rower  ;)

Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: simonp on November 17, 2010, 01:26:24 pm
I've never really experimented with anything other than 4 which is supposed to be closest to rowing on the water.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: saturn on November 17, 2010, 02:35:36 pm
OK 4 it is, I'd been fooled by the fact that invariably when I get to the rowing m/c whichever young lady was using it before me has left it on 8-10 so I allowed myself small discount on account of my age and lardiness.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: mike on November 17, 2010, 02:41:04 pm
problem is, '4' can vary quite a lot between machines.  Sometimes (if the fan is clogged up with crap) you need to open it right up to 7 or 8 to get the same resistance.   

If you can be arsed, try and find the Drag Factor buried in the settings and follow instructions (you just take a couple of strokes), anything from 100-120 is 'normal'.

or just put it on 4. 

Dropping from 8 - 4 will feel weird at first but if you really think about using legs, not your arms then it does get easier (promise) 

Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: Manotea on November 18, 2010, 02:16:28 pm
YACF 'affiliation' now available through your concept2 log. Now to work out what to do with it.

Did another 5km last night, around 21m again. Thats three in a row. Gosh.

Started on level 4 but poked it back to 8 before 200m because it felt too much like hard work from a CV point of view.

Edit: I think I'm going to have to have another look at my technique to make level 4 work.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: simonp on November 18, 2010, 08:46:38 pm
As I said, I've never really experimented much with anything other than 4, except when a gym suggested level 8 as part of a programme.

I used to find it very hard and would have my HR in the 170s (when 10+ years younger) doing paces much slower than 2:00/500m.

I got some technique advice from a colleague who's a rower.

Now I will do 2:04/500m and my HR averages around 150-155 over 5000m.  It does creep up during the workout, but my pace tends to also as I get more into it.

Nowadays maintaining 1:57ish puts my HR in the mid-170s.  So that's easier than, say, climbing the Devil's Staircase.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: Marco Stefano on November 19, 2010, 09:16:00 am
Saturn,

If you have not rowed much before and that at higher drag levels, reducing the drag can make it tricky to maintain the same split times as muscles need to fire in turn more quickly at the same rating. Higher drag can be hard on the lower back though, particularly on C2 ergos (rather than WaterRowers or Rowperfects).

I would suggest using drag factor around 110-120 (probably about 4 or 5 on the fan damper setting) and trying some low rating stuff (16 - 18 strokes a min) to train your leg muscles to push harder; lower drag gives some resistance to push against at the start of the stroke, but you can accelerate into the stroke more quickly than with higher drag.

Bizarrely, some studies have shown that short (<1 min) flat out interval training can have a significant effect on endurance. Not sure if it crosses from rowing to cycling. Although both are leg-pushing sports, I think rowing uses more gluteals, and cycling quadriceps (there may be an exercise physiologist along soon to blow that one out of the water...)

Hope that helps, have fun...

Marco (Isle of Ely RC)
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: saturn on November 19, 2010, 09:40:12 am
Thanks Marco, that makes sense and is useful. No I've never rowed, only recently started going to the gym to kill time while my daughter's training in the pool. Yes my gym has C2s. I'll give it a go next week and might take my HRM to compare with cycling effort.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: saturn on November 20, 2010, 05:17:20 pm
OK my initial benchmark for 2km is 9:53. I used drag level 4, sprint for first and final 200m at just over 40 s/min, the rest was mid 30s which seems high considering the distance wasn't ticking up very fast so not sure what that says about technique - strokes seemed too short maybe because I was trying not to use arms much. Forgot to press button at start to track heart rate but it finished at 185 which is 90% my cycling MHR.

I was pleased I managed to maintain the same pace that I've been doing 1km at, didn't feel like I would be able to at 1km but managed to keep it up.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: simonp on November 25, 2010, 09:37:48 pm
Your stroke rates seem very high. I sprint at 35spm doing 1:37/500. I row typically at 23spm. Around 2:00-2:05/500 depending on if I am making an effort. I might creep up to 25spm if rowing a bit harder.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: andrew w on November 26, 2010, 08:49:26 am
I started my "Holiday Challenge" metres off last night with 7000 metres in 30:54.1.  That's 500m pace of 2:12.4, which I didn't think was too bad for a row in freezing conditions - the rowing machine is in my detached unheated garage.  I had the damper on 3, which is about normal for me, and I was rowing at about 24 spm.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: simonp on November 26, 2010, 12:15:50 pm
I started my "Holiday Challenge" metres off last night with 7000 metres in 30:54.1.  That's 500m pace of 2:12.4, which I didn't think was too bad for a row in freezing conditions - the rowing machine is in my detached unheated garage.  I had the damper on 3, which is about normal for me, and I was rowing at about 24 spm.

I haven't started yet.  I still have a slightly productive cough in the mornings and green snot.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: simonp on November 28, 2010, 08:50:03 pm
I have now; yesterday 1000m warm up, 5000m at a steady pace. Then 500m swim. Today 1000m warmup then 7299m (30 mins) and 1000m swim.

So that is 14299m and puts me ahead of schedule. :)
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: Manotea on November 29, 2010, 12:52:07 am
Having grabbed a lift home from the AUK AGM, I opened my account this afternoon with 8km.

Are you sure that 299m counts, simonp? Surely it's just an overdistance 7km!
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: simonp on November 29, 2010, 12:58:07 am
Having grabbed a lift home from the AUK AGM, I opened my account this afternoon with 8km.

Are you sure that 299m counts, simonp? Surely it's just an overdistance 7km!

It's not Audax!

Yes, all metres count. It's not a 7km it's a 30 minute row (ie fixed time, not fixed distance) which is one of the standard workouts that can be ranked on the concept ii website.

(Just in case, I checked. The total shown is 14,299m)
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: saturn on November 29, 2010, 11:11:29 pm
OK my initial benchmark for 2km is 9:53. I used drag level 4....

9:42 tonight, still on drag level 4, tried to lengthen the strokes but, except a bit of a spurt for the final 200m, I maintained a steady 33-36 s/m throughout so clearly I'm still doing something wrong. Might try putting the drag up just a bit, I'm trying to do most of the work with my legs but it doesn't feel like they're doing enough, as though there's not enough resistance  :-\
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: Panoramix on November 29, 2010, 11:24:07 pm
OK my initial benchmark for 2km is 9:53. I used drag level 4....

9:42 tonight, still on drag level 4, tried to lengthen the strokes but, except a bit of a spurt for the final 200m, I maintained a steady 33-36 s/m throughout so clearly I'm still doing something wrong. Might try putting the drag up just a bit, I'm trying to do most of the work with my legs but it doesn't feel like they're doing enough, as though there's not enough resistance  :-\

This is a classic symptom of the back not being stiff enough. You push with your legs but all the energy goes in curving your back. You must sit up with your shoulders slightly backwards and keep the back straight during the stroke as if it was stiff.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: simonp on November 30, 2010, 12:15:18 am
Tonight: 1000m warm up then 5000m in 20:08.8. I rowed the final 1000m at sub 1:55/500m - around 26spm. When I pushed harder for the final 100m at 1:48 I hit 27spm. Arms a bit heavy in the pool plus I'm making it harder doing 2 lengths / 1 length crawl/breast instead of 1/1. So I did only 20 lengths.

I've done more than 1/5 the challenge and it's only taken 3 days. Now I thinking of trying to do the 200,000m challenge...
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: saturn on November 30, 2010, 08:18:04 am
Thanks Panoramix I'll pay more attention to that. I'd previously been trying to follow this rowing technique video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eqVmMd7FdAA) but while the straight back is mentioned it's not so obvious as in this video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l8IsN_nOQYc) which is helpful.

I'm struggling to see how this will make me quicker though. As well as preventing injury, I can see that better technique might enable me to maintain a given stroke rate for a given time at a higher resistance (thus improving speed)  but I just can't figure out how it'll make me quicker while reducing the stroke rate at a low resistance given that if anything it will shorten the length of the stroke. This is what leads me to believe I need to use a higher resistance but get the technique right so I don't hurt my lower back.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: Panoramix on November 30, 2010, 12:55:33 pm
Thanks Panoramix I'll pay more attention to that. I'd previously been trying to follow this rowing technique video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eqVmMd7FdAA) but while the straight back is mentioned it's not so obvious as in this video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l8IsN_nOQYc) which is helpful.

I'm struggling to see how this will make me quicker though. As well as preventing injury, I can see that better technique might enable me to maintain a given stroke rate for a given time at a higher resistance (thus improving speed)  but I just can't figure out how it'll make me quicker while reducing the stroke rate at a low resistance given that if anything it will shorten the length of the stroke. This is what leads me to believe I need to use a higher resistance but get the technique right so I don't hurt my lower back.

The logic behind is that if you push the seat backward by a certain amount with your legs, you want your shoulders travel the same distance. If you don't have a "strong" back,  back flexes reducing the travel of your shoulders so you have say 3 inches left and the rest is lost in deforming your back.

To train the best is to start at say 15 strokes per minutes. Seat on the machine, flex your legs, sit up (seat is forward) then push on your legs making sure your body is completely rigid (except the legs of course), once your legs are straight, use you stomach muscles to lean backward  - by now arms and legs stay straight - and once you feel like you are close to fall backward finish the stroke by pulling on your arms. Keep the leg, stomach muscle and arm actions separate don't worry about the split time, focus on keeping the three actions separate and feel the force in the chord travelling from your hands to your feet.

Once you are a bit more confident carry on with the same motion pushing as hard as you can as if you were trying to break the foot rests; you should see the split time going down dramatically (with the same stroke rate).

Once you master this, up the rate; at some point you will loose the coordination, don't panic just go down a few strokes per minutes and  everything will go back together. After a few months 35 strokes per minute will feel "natural".

You may have attended one of these H&S training when they teach you to avoid back injuries by lifting with a straight back pushing on your leg, the feeling is somehow similar. When you feel the pressure under your feet it means you are doing things right.

My PB in 2003 for a 2k was 7:05 after just 6 months of serious training and having just stopped smoking so I guess that the coaching was good! I have stopped because of other commitments but I am sure that I would eventually have broken the 6:50 barrier when people start to actually want you in their boat!
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: simonp on November 30, 2010, 09:34:56 pm
1000m warm up then 10000m in 41:48.5. Well off my pb but I was pacing myself til the red mist set in with 2500m to go. Now shoulder exercises bicycle abs (ugh) and a swim.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: mike on November 30, 2010, 09:55:42 pm
good work Simon!!  I managed 5k today in a smidge over 20 minutes. Not sure i've got the patience to carry on any further.

Thanks Panoramix I'll pay more attention to that. I'd previously been trying to follow this rowing technique video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eqVmMd7FdAA) but while the straight back is mentioned it's not so obvious as in this video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l8IsN_nOQYc) which is helpful.

that second video is awful technique.. please dont pay too much attention to it. The first one is massively better.

to go faster, do more work with your legs.  Dont try and pull harder with your arms, think about getting into the catch position right (like at 7:09 in the first video), very gently take up the load with the first couple of inches of travel of the seat, then spring off the toes, thinking about feeling the work up your (straight) arms and through to the back of your shoulder.  Then repeat for hours. 

Dont try and rate 30 ish unless you're racing.  Seriously, 20-24 at a load of about 5 is absolutely plenty, if you get the spring right. It is hard though, and needs very good timing between leg drive, body swing and arms.  Is there a rowing club anywhere near you that you could go to for some coaching?  Most will have someone very, very happy to spend 5 minutes with you even if you dont want to get in a boat (but you should.. it's amazing)

there are some great gym ergo technique tips here:
Something about rowing..?: Intensely annoying people 2 - People failing at erging properly in gyms (http://somethingaboutrowing.blogspot.com/2010/10/intensely-annoying-people-2-people.html)

(may contain sarcasm)
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: saturn on November 30, 2010, 11:02:32 pm
Thanks again Panoramix & Mike, I'll forget the times for a while then and concentrate on technique. To be honest, I'm not trying to break any records, just passing time while my daughter's in the pool and it's no good killing myself in 10 mins on the rower because I have 1.5 hours to pass. However, having read this thread I thought I should try to get more value from my time on the rower.

Anyway, thanks for your patience with me going over the basics, I can see that this thread has been going for a while and you've all moved on beyond this stuff so I appreciate your advice.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: simonp on November 30, 2010, 11:12:10 pm
To be fair many of us would benefit with 5 minutes coaching. The last time I had any of that was 12 years ago.

My arms used to get pumped by rowing. Now, they don't. I was over using them. Though 10k still does a bit.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: Chris S on December 02, 2010, 03:24:44 pm
Ah well - never afraid to open myself to ridicule - so here we go, rate my technique.

FWIW - I was maintaining 22spm, and 2:10/500 split. This is the first time I've looked at my technique. I think I get too far forward, which in turn means my heels raise up and I push back off my toes.

Chris S Rowing (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k3WRUyNRj8I)
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: Panoramix on December 02, 2010, 04:27:55 pm
Ah well - never afraid to open myself to ridicule - so here we go, rate my technique.

FWIW - I was maintaining 22spm, and 2:10/500 split. This is the first time I've looked at my technique. I think I get too far forward, which in turn means my heels raise up and I push back off my toes.

Chris S Rowing (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k3WRUyNRj8I)

Looks pretty good to me. May be you can use a bit more your body to achieve a longer stroke.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: Wowbagger on December 02, 2010, 05:40:24 pm
Ah well - never afraid to open myself to ridicule - so here we go, rate my technique.

FWIW - I was maintaining 22spm, and 2:10/500 split. This is the first time I've looked at my technique. I think I get too far forward, which in turn means my heels raise up and I push back off my toes.

Chris S Rowing (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k3WRUyNRj8I)

If you'd done that nude you could have out-Hulvered Hulver! :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: Chris S on December 02, 2010, 05:52:30 pm
If you'd done that nude you could have out-Hulvered Hulver! :thumbsup:

LOL! Everyone can be enormously relieved that didn't occur to me.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: Marco Stefano on December 02, 2010, 10:05:40 pm
Ah well - never afraid to open myself to ridicule - so here we go, rate my technique.

FWIW - I was maintaining 22spm, and 2:10/500 split. This is the first time I've looked at my technique. I think I get too far forward, which in turn means my heels raise up and I push back off my toes.

Chris S Rowing (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k3WRUyNRj8I)

Looks pretty good to me. May be you can use a bit more your body to achieve a longer stroke.

Yep, looks pretty good to me too. I assume P means more body angle after your hands go away from your body, & come forward on the slide leaning forward from the hips more (longer stroke at the front end). Need fair hamstring flexibility to do this, though. I don't think you are over-compressing, more quite quick into frontstops. Looks like you are doing almost nothing with your legs and there is loads more to come...

Have you rowed on water? Your hand heights say you have...
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: Chris S on December 02, 2010, 10:12:17 pm
Have you rowed on water? Your hand heights say you have...

No.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: simonp on December 02, 2010, 11:49:22 pm
1000 + 10000 (40:27.0) for 42299m to date. Another 11k tomorrow to get me past 50k, then I am considering making sat & sun each two times 30 mins plus warmup, so about 28k over the weekend.

Crazy. Oh, I swam 30 lengths also, plus commuting etc so another 2.25h cardio day. :)
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: mike on December 02, 2010, 11:49:56 pm
looks pretty good to me too...

If I was being picky you could speed up the hands away / body over part, swing over a bit further and then take a bit longer on the slide forward, but it's really not too bad at all.

Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: simonp on December 02, 2010, 11:51:56 pm
Hmm, that means I'd be finished the 100k challenge by Tuesday.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: Manotea on December 03, 2010, 12:14:15 am
Ah well - never afraid to open myself to ridicule - so here we go, rate my technique.

FWIW - I was maintaining 22spm, and 2:10/500 split. This is the first time I've looked at my technique. I think I get too far forward, which in turn means my heels raise up and I push back off my toes.

Chris S Rowing (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k3WRUyNRj8I)

Looks good to me Chris but then again, I know nothing! I need to work on technique, getting more out of each strike. I have to really focus to stay around 26 spm. I tend to drift up to ~30spm.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: andrew w on December 03, 2010, 12:28:54 pm
Finally dug a path through the snow from our back door to the garage, so I can get to the rowing machine without getting covered in snow.  Did a slow 10,000m last night, so that's only 17,000m so far since 25 November.  The plan now is to do 10,000m three times a week, which should get me to 100,000 just before Christmas Eve.  That's the plan, anyway.  ;)
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: simonp on December 03, 2010, 12:31:01 pm
I woke up feeling knackered.

I need to learn to pace myself. :)
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: Manotea on December 03, 2010, 10:13:33 pm
I woke up feeling knackered.

I need to learn to pace myself. :)


I've done at least 5km each day this week* and starting to feel a tadge run down. My times aren't improving that's for sure. I'll be pleased when the challenge is completed and go back to a 2km as warmup for the gym. Ideally I'd do longer efforts every other day to allow some recovery but I suspect I'm going to lose some days later in the month so I'm trying to get through it asap.

In the gym this evening the chap on the rower next to me was doing his best to cripple himself. His stroke was so jerky the rower was parambulating across the room. The gym person helped him relocate the rower but didn't offer any advice on technique, so I gave him the benefit of my vast experience which whilst not necessarilly perfect still resulted in a 1000% improvement on what he was doing before.

*Which is pretty amazing as not that long ago I was asking the question "how on earth can anybody row for 5km"? Made 19:50 for a age group ranking of 300 out of 760 or so. Need to make 19:36 to acheive the 25percentile.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: simonp on December 03, 2010, 11:58:20 pm
Dunno about you but I am cycling for 1h15 or so each day, 45 ish rowing, a little bit of stretching and abs work, and a 20-30 minute swim. I've done that 4 days since the weekend. Wed was a rest day, just 1h30 cycling!

Tonight about 7K into my 10K I started to feel the bonk coming on so I stopped and necked some of my energy drink. Felt ok after that and for a short swim.

I need to pace myself. Too high intensity every day is using up my glycogen stores.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: andrew w on December 04, 2010, 03:58:12 pm
That's more like it!  10,000m in 44:28.7.  I need to knock another minute off that just to get to the half-way level in the online rankings for 60+ males on the Concept 2 website.  Currently 45th out of 72.  Actually I'll be happy just to get under 44 minutes, I think that's a more realistic goal for me.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: simonp on December 04, 2010, 04:34:22 pm
I'm still a long way off the time I did in June. And I can't get close to it without being low on energy the next day.

I think repeating that time will be hard. I was cycling 1500 miles a month when I did it.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: Marco Stefano on December 04, 2010, 08:16:41 pm
My name is Marco and I have not rowed today. Even wimped out of sculling 'cos of painfully cold hands.  :-[

What little snow we had is thawing. Back on the river tomorrow...
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: simonp on December 04, 2010, 08:35:05 pm
Another 11,000m. Not having cycled today (and I walked to the gym) made it easier. Swam 1000m after; now about to have a huge bowl of soup and an omelette.

64299m I think one I enter today's efforts. Same tomorrow. Couldn't bring myself to do two sessions so will not finish on Tuesday. :'(
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: Manotea on December 04, 2010, 09:09:34 pm
Spent this afternoon feeling wiped out, dozing on the couch then did what any sensible person would do, made a last minute dash to the gym for 5+1. I was aiming for 30 mins but I wimped out after 5km. Somehow aiming for a time is so much harder than aiming for a distance. I guess it's because working harder doesn't make the pain end any sooner.

Apart from a 30min spin class I haven't been on a bike since last Friday. I might ride some main road miles tomorrow if the weather is up to it.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: simonp on December 04, 2010, 09:56:00 pm
I thought the same about fixed-time.

There's plenty time to finish the challenge. Over 40,000m in a week says you'll have no trouble.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: simonp on December 05, 2010, 10:56:26 pm
I did 12,000m tonight. I increased the warm up to 2,000m. So I'm on 76,299m. I forgot my swimming trunks so no 1000m swim tonight. This will give me more energy tomorrow. :)
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: simonp on December 06, 2010, 05:56:50 pm
I did 12,000m tonight. I increased the warm up to 2,000m. So I'm on 76,299m. I forgot my swimming trunks so no 1000m swim tonight. This will give me more energy tomorrow. :)

Swimming club AGM or more rowing this evening?
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: saturn on December 06, 2010, 08:59:58 pm
Thanks for the video Chris S, that was much more useful than anything else I've seen on youtube. Having given blood a few days ago I thought I'd try to slow it down tonight and do my best to emulate you  :-* I had to whack the drag up though - there's simply not enough resistance to push against to get the stroke rate down otherwise. I didn't have time to find the true drag factor on the menu because the batteries are dead and the screen died if I stopped rowing for too long.

Anyway, I did the 2km in the same sort of time with much lower stroke rate, I think the little lean-back at the end of the stroke (which I wasn't doing before) helped, it felt a lot better too.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: simonp on December 06, 2010, 11:12:33 pm
I did 12,000m tonight. I increased the warm up to 2,000m. So I'm on 76,299m. I forgot my swimming trunks so no 1000m swim tonight. This will give me more energy tomorrow. :)

Swimming club AGM or more rowing this evening?


AGM.  Probably for the best.  ::-)
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: Manotea on December 06, 2010, 11:54:43 pm
The reason why I've been feeling wiped out lately has made itself apparent. 2nd day off with lurgy. I suspect I've been incubating it since (not) riding to York for the AGM.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: andrew w on December 07, 2010, 09:03:31 pm
Another 10,000m tonight.  Have now done 37,000m, but I'll feel better when I get over the halfway mark.  Went out and bought a fan heater from Comet before tonight's session, which made things a bit more comfortable, as it would otherwise have been about -2 degrees in my garage.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: simonp on December 08, 2010, 12:46:36 am
Another 12,000m (2,000 + 10,000) to take me to 88,299.

Will not be rowing tomorrow - Wednesday is pub night (no booze for me).  I might not row on Thursday either as that's swimming club and I might go this week as my shoulder has improved lots.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: Jasmine on December 09, 2010, 11:07:17 am
Thanks for the video Chris S, that was much more useful than anything else I've seen on youtube. Having given blood a few days ago I thought I'd try to slow it down tonight and do my best to emulate you  :-* I had to whack the drag up though - there's simply not enough resistance to push against to get the stroke rate down otherwise. I didn't have time to find the true drag factor on the menu because the batteries are dead and the screen died if I stopped rowing for too long.

Anyway, I did the 2km in the same sort of time with much lower stroke rate, I think the little lean-back at the end of the stroke (which I wasn't doing before) helped, it felt a lot better too.

You shouldn't need to put the drag factor up to get more resistance.  The harder you pull, the more resistance you will get.  Rather than going for a 2k time, do some steady state work concentrating on technique at 20 strokes per minutes.  Take a look at how many metres you are making per stroke.  I generally do 12-13 metres per stroke when I limit the rating to 20 spm.  I'm 1.7 m tall, so somewhat challenged on the length of potential stroke.

Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: andrew w on December 09, 2010, 09:12:51 pm
Another 10,000m tonight.  Sticking to the plan so far.  O:-)
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: simonp on December 09, 2010, 10:10:03 pm
Thanks for the video Chris S, that was much more useful than anything else I've seen on youtube. Having given blood a few days ago I thought I'd try to slow it down tonight and do my best to emulate you  :-* I had to whack the drag up though - there's simply not enough resistance to push against to get the stroke rate down otherwise. I didn't have time to find the true drag factor on the menu because the batteries are dead and the screen died if I stopped rowing for too long.

Anyway, I did the 2km in the same sort of time with much lower stroke rate, I think the little lean-back at the end of the stroke (which I wasn't doing before) helped, it felt a lot better too.

You shouldn't need to put the drag factor up to get more resistance.  The harder you pull, the more resistance you will get.  Rather than going for a 2k time, do some steady state work concentrating on technique at 20 strokes per minutes.  Take a look at how many metres you are making per stroke.  I generally do 12-13 metres per stroke when I limit the rating to 20 spm.  I'm 1.7 m tall, so somewhat challenged on the length of potential stroke.



Some guys next to me at the gym the other night were doing 18spm @ 1:48/500m, level 5.  I'm pretty sure there was plenty drag.  They didn't keep that up for 10,000m though.

On the challenge, I've been feeling crap and a bit busy, so I'm stuck on 88,299m.  I wanted to get down there tonight, I'm still at work.  Mañana .
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: simonp on December 10, 2010, 09:18:21 pm
Too busy this week. But got to the gym tonight.

100,299m RAWWWR

I did the 10K in 39:56.1. 2nd or 3rd fastest time I've done.

I am this: drenched. And a bit shaky typing on the phone. Now for a swim.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: andrew w on December 11, 2010, 05:01:40 pm
Just done 10,000m in 43:41.2, that's about 47 seconds faster than last weekend, so I'm quite pleased with that.  I'm now up to 57,000 with my challenge metres, so still on track to finish on about 23 December, rowing at the rate of 3 x 10,000 per week.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: simonp on December 12, 2010, 01:29:10 am
Good work. I am trying to decide if I'm up to trying for 200k now.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: Swarm_Catcher on December 12, 2010, 01:50:38 am
Good work. I am trying to decide if I'm up to trying for 200k now.
Or you could save that challenge for January?
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: simonp on December 12, 2010, 11:20:42 pm
Good work. I am trying to decide if I'm up to trying for 200k now.
Or you could save that challenge for January?

112,299m. Guess I have to try.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: Manotea on December 14, 2010, 10:50:56 pm
The reason why I've been feeling wiped out lately has made itself apparent. 2nd day off with lurgy. I suspect I've been incubating it since (not) riding to York for the AGM.

First day doing anything at all since, gosh, the 4th. Took it easy with 2*5km@21:00.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: simonp on December 15, 2010, 12:21:13 am
Good work. You only have to do that 4-and-a-bit more times.

I have done 12k (2+10) the last 3 days. Then swimming, in one case up to 1500m. I'm getting quite tired.

Tonight's 41:15 was done at 21spm.  Had to focus.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: andrew w on December 16, 2010, 10:00:28 pm
Now on 77,000m.  Still on target, in spite of the sub-zero temperature in my garage tonight.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: Manotea on December 16, 2010, 10:54:07 pm
Now on 77,000m.  Still on target, in spite of the sub-zero temperature in my garage tonight.

Snap. Nice and cosy in my local council gym. Car said -2 on the way home though. Been experimenting with lower stroke rates (5k@ ~23, warmdown 1km @~20. Perceived less effort but have to focus to keep up power).
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: saturn on December 16, 2010, 11:44:31 pm
You shouldn't need to put the drag factor up to get more resistance.  The harder you pull, the more resistance you will get. 

Despite all the clues being in various posts above (stiff back, push hard with feet etc etc) I've been really struggling to get my head around how lowering the stroke rate and not increasing the drag will do anything other than slowing my progress but I finally got the message - thanks. Tonight I tried to concentrate on pushing back as hard as I could, keeping the back stiff and at last I felt the resistance. Knocked about 40secs of my previous time for 2km and there's still plenty there because I was struggling to keep the technique throughout, kept slipping back into old ways. I was still doing around 27s/m but it's going in the right direction now  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: Marco Stefano on December 18, 2010, 09:59:25 am
Well done Saturn.

Lower stroke rates allow the flywheel to slow down more between strokes, but allows you time to recover. You can do high pressure rowing at low rates (16-18 spm) for relatively long sessions (40+ mins) to build power per stroke without hurting your back or getting too knackered - if you can get your head round doing the same thing for that long... The higher the drag factor, the quicker it slows between strokes, and you have to find what is best for you.

As for me, erging is currently 30 mins warm-up in the gym 3 times a week, about 7km a go. Plus river outings at the weekend - but it's frozen now.  :(  Just cycled down to the river in hope of getting out - 40 mins on the bike, water bottle turned into a Slush Puppy! It's -6.5°C. Beautiful morning here, though.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: Manotea on December 18, 2010, 12:45:31 pm
Lower stroke rates allow the flywheel to slow down more between strokes, but allows you time to recover. You can do high pressure rowing at low rates (16-18 spm) for relatively long sessions (40+ mins) to build power per stroke without hurting your back or getting too knackered - if you can get your head round doing the same thing for that long...

That's the thing, and what I found so hard at first. To row for longer periods - as you would on the water - you have to be able to relax into the exercise, to make it more of a jog than a sprint. Once the technique is in place you can work on power.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: Marco Stefano on December 18, 2010, 08:22:52 pm
That's the thing, and what I found so hard at first. To row for longer periods - as you would on the water - you have to be able to relax into the exercise, to make it more of a jog than a sprint. Once the technique is in place you can work on power.

And where I row & scull you have to relax into the session; there is absolutely nothing to look at & no distractions. Which is why Cambridge train here.

An important point though; being able to relax on the recovery at any stroke rate & pressure (including flat out) is an important skill. (Yes, I am still talking about rowing - stop sniggering at the back.)
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: simonp on December 18, 2010, 10:24:56 pm
I just passed 160km. Not far now!
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: Chris S on December 18, 2010, 10:27:54 pm
I have not rowed at all well this month.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: simonp on December 18, 2010, 11:42:22 pm
I have not rowed at all well this month.

Blood donation slowed you down?
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: Chris S on December 19, 2010, 01:44:50 am
I have not rowed at all well this month.

Blood donation slowed you down?

Lethargy.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: andrew w on December 19, 2010, 01:19:03 pm
Lethargy.

It's a powerful thing, isn't it?  I was like that in early November - any excuse not to go out to my garage and row.  Too tired, too cold, monitor not working, any excuse, you name it, I used it.  What got me going again was a combination of things:

1. The weather preventing me from cycling, so I felt I had to do some exercise, and

2. This stupid 100,000 metre challenge thing.  It's so daft, you're not competing against anybody, it doesn't matter if you fail, but it just motivates me enough to keep going.

Don't know if that helps you at all, probably not as everyone is different, thankfully.  :)

Anyway I've just been out and done 13,000m, so now I'm on 90,000, which means that I should hit the target with my next session.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: simonp on December 19, 2010, 05:52:08 pm
I've got lurgy. Don't feel like going down to the gym. 601m short of 100 miles.  That could be it for me.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: Chris S on December 19, 2010, 06:16:52 pm
I've got lurgy.

Another one?  :o

GWS
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: simonp on December 19, 2010, 08:43:59 pm
I've got lurgy.

Another one?  :o

GWS

Not to worry, it's just a head cold.  2 or 3 colds in one year is about normal for me.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: Marco Stefano on December 19, 2010, 10:09:03 pm
Weird - I don't mind getting cold on the river or running to the gym in the cold to train with other rowers (and paying money to do it) but I cannot seem to get on my own C2. And it's indoors, not even in the garage any more (no room due to bikes).

And I should have been on it the last two days. Slacker.  ::-)
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: Manotea on December 21, 2010, 12:01:46 pm
I tweaked my lower back about three days ago. Not badly but enough to stop me rowing. I wouldn't mind so much but I've been working on improving technique/form. Heigh ho.

The Holiday Challenge has been a bit of a pain in the neck, er, back, really, a massive distraction to my planned goals which were to get heavy in the gym and on the turbo. A bout of lurgy didn't help though I partly blame that on getting a bit run down from the effort of rowing every day.  I was flying on the bike in November and haven't been on the bike since. Feels like I'll be starting from scratch when the snow goes. Feeling a bit fed up right now. Heigh ho indeed.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: Chris S on December 21, 2010, 12:11:05 pm
Continued lethargy here too. I've given up hope of completing the challenge - only 25k or so done  :(.

I forced myself out for my Dec 200 to complete another RRTY year; but the bikes have had little other use, and the rowing machine has a layer of dust on it  :facepalm:.

I thought I might develop cabin fever if I switched off all activity - but instead I'm quite happy to mope about doing nothing; eating stodgy comfort food and drinking beer. And Christmas hasn't even started yet!

I will have to pull myself together soon....
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: simonp on December 21, 2010, 04:44:36 pm
I find rowing more demanding than cycling. I have to pace myself if I'm doing 10000m stints or I struggle with heavy legs the next day. I've been sticking to around 2:06 split and I can do that ok because my HR is mid 150s doing that. If I get down below 2:00 then the final few thousand metres have my HR over 180. It's ok but takes too much out of me to repeat day after day. I would have the same issue with daily 2x20 on the bike.

Lurgy is a fact of life in the winter. I had a cold 6 weeks ago. I was out with someone the other night and they said they had a cold. Hey presto, I have it now. This one is less bad than the last, apart from the headache last night.  Late winter/ early spring last year I had a series of colds and it was very frustrating.

My 10ks for this time have been followed by swimming up to 1500m and adding 1h cycling in the day this adds up to 2h30 exercise.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: IbisTouche on December 22, 2010, 05:23:53 am
We are taking part in a rowing competition monthly here in Denmark:

Vinter Otter Grand Prix (http://www.8gp.dk/)

We have a lot of fun with this and the preparations to each challenge.  8 persons and one Concept2 rowing ergometer is all you need. There after you report your resultats and on the homepage you can compare with others.
Our problem is to remember doing some indoor bicycling because the muscles used in rowing are not the same as in rowing. We are about starting on slides this winter to train for our tandeming. Working on the rhytm. Fun.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: simonp on December 22, 2010, 03:36:05 pm
I've got lurgy.

Another one?  :o

GWS

Not to worry, it's just a head cold.  2 or 3 colds in one year is about normal for me.


It's actually:

One in April
One in November
One in December

The April one was the first for more than a year IIRC, so that's 3 colds in about 20 months.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: Manotea on December 22, 2010, 09:56:52 pm
Free at last, free at last.....
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: simonp on December 22, 2010, 10:00:38 pm
Free at last, free at last.....

The virtual team challenge is next month.  :demon:
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: Manotea on December 22, 2010, 10:20:52 pm
Free at last, free at last.....

The virtual team challenge is next month.  :demon:

No more empty km's for me. I'm going to shoot for a modest 1000km next year, a nominal 3x7km per week.

Having said that it would be nice to get a 90 percentile ranking (18:39/38:12 in 2010). I'm currently around the 60pc mark with 75pc acheiveable with a bit of effort.

Ms Manotea the Elder explains she cannot be doing with competitive rowers because they're all obsessed with their split times. Happily, I am not at all competitive...
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: Swarm_Catcher on December 23, 2010, 11:39:27 am
Free at last, free at last.....
Me too!!!


The virtual team challenge is next month: I prefer this challenge. And we're getting Concept IIs at work from 10th Jan. Can you remember what our total was last time Simon?
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: simonp on December 23, 2010, 11:53:31 am
Free at last, free at last.....
Me too!!!


The virtual team challenge is next month: I prefer this challenge. And we're getting Concept IIs at work from 10th Jan. Can you remember what our total was last time Simon?



Virtual Team Challenge 2010 Team Results
 (http://www.concept2.com/sranking03/team/virtual/vtc10_team_results.asp)

400,505m with 7 people.

Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: andrew w on December 23, 2010, 04:47:26 pm
Completed my 100K today, after chickening out on Tuesday when the temperature in my garage was around -7 deg.  I don't think one little fan heater would have made much impression on that!

I'll be up for the team challenge again, by the way.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: simonp on December 28, 2010, 09:34:52 pm
Right.  I've just signed team yacf up for the virtual team challenge.  Those who are already members the team need to sign up to the challenge even though they are already team members.  You can do this from your Team page - see the Team tab at the top of the logbook page.  Remember: you need to both join the team (if not already a member) and sign up from the challenge, both of which you can do from this page.  Team membership is open so there's no need for confirmation from the team captain (aka: me).

Any problems, let me know.

The challenge doesn't start until 1st Jan, and there are some rules:

Concept2: Virtual Team Challenge (http://www.concept2.com/us/motivation/challenges/team/vtc.asp)

In particular:

Quote
# Important: Complete the following tasks by January 15 or your team will not be enrolled in the challenge and/or your team members' meters will not count for the challenge:

    * Your team must be enrolled in this year's VTC. (See the Team Administration page for details.)
    * All team members must be added to your team.
    * Team members who have their own logbooks must indicate in their logbooks that they are actively participating in the current challenge. (See the Team Member page for more information.)


i.e. you can't join up after 15th Jan.

and:

Quote
# Meters completed each week should be entered no later than midnight on Friday of that week. This works on the honor system. It makes it fair and fun for everyone if you can watch the progress of the teams that you are competing against.

Also, if you're new to this please don't start with 10,000m efforts.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: andrew w on December 29, 2010, 05:21:55 pm
Right, I've signed up for the January Team Challenge. 

I really need to do this, after all the nuts, chocolates, crisps and other excess food I've eaten over the Christmas period.  At the moment I'm about 4 kg heavier than I'd like to be a this time of year, so a regular dose of 10,000m efforts on the rowing machine might help to get my weight going in the right direction. 

I also need to eat less, but I always find that much harder to put into effect!
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: saturn on December 29, 2010, 07:16:25 pm
I typically only do a paltry 2km once per week - is this an every little contribution no matter how small helps sort of thing or would my pathetic little effort drag the team down by lowering the average per team member or something? I can cope with the public ridicule if it'll help (a bit) but as I clearly wouldn't be doing it for any sort of personal challenge I'll only enter if instructed to do so.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: simonp on December 29, 2010, 07:54:34 pm
There is a sort by average and a total metres. Give us your metres! :)
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: simonp on December 29, 2010, 11:47:07 pm
Right, I've signed up for the January Team Challenge. 

I really need to do this, after all the nuts, chocolates, crisps and other excess food I've eaten over the Christmas period.  At the moment I'm about 4 kg heavier than I'd like to be a this time of year, so a regular dose of 10,000m efforts on the rowing machine might help to get my weight going in the right direction. 

I also need to eat less, but I always find that much harder to put into effect!

Good luck!

I did my first one since I bailed at 160k due to lurgy on the holiday challenge. Kept it to 2k + 5k to keep the 2k felt harder than normal and I was sweating more than usual. Possibly lurgy related. I still did my 1500m swim, I'm down to under 40 minutes on that.

My train back to Englandshire from Glasgow is not til 15.50 on Monday. This will give me time to sneak in a row beforehand at the gym in Renfrew. In fact it will stop me wasting an hour between trains at Glasgow: the train from here is cunningly timed to arrive at 14.52; the next at 15.52. If I get the train to Paisley then cycle to the gym I can then get a much better choice of connection from Paisley.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: andrew w on January 01, 2011, 05:43:28 pm
Well, we're up and running now, as I've just done my first 10,000 of 2011.  It seemed hard, which probably says something about my alcohol consumption yesterday evening.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: Chris S on January 01, 2011, 08:08:29 pm
OK. I'm in.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: liam_whippet on January 01, 2011, 09:52:23 pm
Me too.  :)

Hope I've added my 5k.  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: Salvatore on January 02, 2011, 02:41:35 pm
I've just signed up and logged this morning's metres.

Look who we're beating in the team standings:

(http://i1104.photobucket.com/albums/h323/nocensure/Untitled.jpg)

Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: liam_whippet on January 03, 2011, 09:20:16 pm
Yebbut there's three times as many of us!  ;)

10K in 45:11 - I'm getting [back] into this!  :thumbsup:


Bought an old Model B in the summer, but never got very far with it. Over Xmas I swapped over two runners to get rid of the "trundle" and replaced the batteries; whereupon it sulked and refused to come out of Watts mode.. Had the monitor apart and cleaned the contacts, and it's now looking like a good 'un.

Other than that, it all seems to be coming back... In the words of The Immortal Steve*: "Spring and draw, flick onto the feather, and sit back until the cows come home"..



ex-JCBC [novice], ex-SGCBC [coach], ex-Bedford & Star [novice and coach]

*That's Fairbairn, not Redgrave.  8)
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: simonp on January 03, 2011, 11:44:05 pm
Did my first of 2011 today, I notice young Master Spooner has already got a head start due to my being trapped in Scotland for the first 3 days.

As I have still got a bit of a post-lurgy cough I only did a 2k in 8:32 followed by a 5k in 20:37. I'll step it up a bit only if I don't make myself ill.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: Salvatore on January 04, 2011, 03:19:15 pm
Yebbut there's three times as many of us!  ;)


I also notice that the US navy is twice the size of the US army. Combined, they are the same size as YACF.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: Chris S on January 04, 2011, 03:23:21 pm
I shall be opening my account this evening, all being well. Probably only 5k as I also want to give the turbo a good workout.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: tubbycyclist on January 04, 2011, 05:04:12 pm
I have popped into this thread after dusting off a WaterRower that is sit in our cellar, does anyone mind if I sign up for the concept 2 yacf team?  I presume the challenger designers would prefer to log everything on C2s, but are they broadly similar enough to include metres erged without skewing totals?
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: simonp on January 04, 2011, 06:05:40 pm
I have popped into this thread after dusting off a WaterRower that is sit in our cellar, does anyone mind if I sign up for the concept 2 yacf team?  I presume the challenger designers would prefer to log everything on C2s, but are they broadly similar enough to include metres erged without skewing totals?


I think when it says only "Indoor rower" metres count, they mean Concept 2 ones.

I have no idea how you'd calibrate a WaterRower to give the same effort; obviously you can vary the water level but I don't know what water level would be similar, or if the WaterRower compensates for the measured amount of drag.  The Concept 2 computers compensate for measured drag so two different people rowing on different machines will get a fair comparison of their effort.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: PeteB99 on January 04, 2011, 06:58:58 pm
I have popped into this thread after dusting off a WaterRower that is sit in our cellar, does anyone mind if I sign up for the concept 2 yacf team?  I presume the challenger designers would prefer to log everything on C2s, but are they broadly similar enough to include metres erged without skewing totals?


I think when it says only "Indoor rower" metres count, they mean Concept 2 ones.

I have no idea how you'd calibrate a WaterRower to give the same effort; obviously you can vary the water level but I don't know what water level would be similar, or if the WaterRower compensates for the measured amount of drag.  The Concept 2 computers compensate for measured drag so two different people rowing on different machines will get a fair comparison of their effort.


Having used both I would say that for most non rower users they are broadly equivelent. The Concept 2 computer is self calibrating which makes it fairer accross the board but for the number of WRs likely to join I wouldn't be too bothered. Concepts website differentiates between Indoor rower metres and on the water metres but either assumes that all Indoor rowers are Concepts or is not bothered by it.

Bottom line is if it gets an unused WR back into use then go for it.

If my back injury ever clears up I'll join in with mine :demon:
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: Manotea on January 04, 2011, 07:13:13 pm
I have popped into this thread after dusting off a WaterRower that is sit in our cellar, does anyone mind if I sign up for the concept 2 yacf team?  I presume the challenger designers would prefer to log everything on C2s, but are they broadly similar enough to include metres erged without skewing totals?


I think when it says only "Indoor rower" metres count, they mean Concept 2 ones.

I have no idea how you'd calibrate a WaterRower to give the same effort; obviously you can vary the water level but I don't know what water level would be similar, or if the WaterRower compensates for the measured amount of drag.  The Concept 2 computers compensate for measured drag so two different people rowing on different machines will get a fair comparison of their effort.


I dunno.  As a student of mushy regulations I'd have thought they chose their wording carefully. There is no reference to resistence/drag settings, for example. Hours of fun to be had debating which is the lowest RL permitted for challenge purposes! Oh, the anguish when the leading team admits to using £50 Rower Shaped Objects bought off eBay, etc.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: simonp on January 04, 2011, 07:34:09 pm
Damper setting:

Quote
The damper setting is like bicycle gearing. It affects the feel of the rowing but does not directly affect the resistance. With a little experimentation, you will find the damper setting that gives you the best workout and results. We recommend a damper setting of 3–5 for the best aerobic workout. This is the setting that feels most like a sleek, fast boat on the water. Higher settings feel more like a bigger, slower boat.

The resistance is controlled by how hard you work. The log book does not even ask for the damper setting.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: simonp on January 04, 2011, 07:37:57 pm
As for wording, the wording used elsewhere on the site is "for our customers". Is that mushy?
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: PeteB99 on January 04, 2011, 08:26:07 pm
Damper setting:

Quote
The damper setting is like bicycle gearing. It affects the feel of the rowing but does not directly affect the resistance. With a little experimentation, you will find the damper setting that gives you the best workout and results. We recommend a damper setting of 3–5 for the best aerobic workout. This is the setting that feels most like a sleek, fast boat on the water. Higher settings feel more like a bigger, slower boat.

The resistance is controlled by how hard you work. The log book does not even ask for the damper setting.


The Concept 2 computer is calibrated so that in theory the same effort will produce the same number of metres regardless of the damper setting. The restistance can thus be set to the most convenient level for the individual athlete and the results should be comperable.

The Water rowers computer does not do this, however by setting the bowl level to about 60% full (from memory) you get a roughly equivelent feel and my impression is that the distance travelled for a given intensity of workout would be broadly comparable.

I would say that including a non competative rowers metres on a WR wouldn't make much difference to your teams performance (It's all a question of honour anyway - anyone can just lie about their performance)

In the long run it's your team and nothing to do with me* so it's up to you whether you want to exclude tc's efforts or not.

* I thought maybe my 30 years rowing experience might be helpful - that's all
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: simonp on January 04, 2011, 08:42:04 pm
It's not my team. If it was intended to be then I'd not call it yacf I'd have called it the people's popular front or something.

I've given myself blisters and stomach cramp now :(
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: Swarm_Catcher on January 06, 2011, 11:03:20 am
I've just signed up and logged this morning's metres.

Look who we're beating in the team standings:

(http://i1104.photobucket.com/albums/h323/nocensure/Untitled.jpg)


Staying ahead of 'The Killer Bees' is my motivator.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: Chris S on January 06, 2011, 01:47:25 pm
I'm adjusting to a new diet. I got it wrong today - and had to stop three quarters of the way through a 10k with a massive dose of bonk. Shaky hands, jelly legs, clammy sweat - the lot.

Feeling much better now lunch has taken effect - and after snacking through the afternoon, I'll endeavour to do another 5k later.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: saturn on January 07, 2011, 08:13:59 am
OK, I'm in with my puny weekly contribution. Had a shock about the distances that you guys seemed to have clocked up already this year but later realised that I had to separately join the team for this year's challenge not just generally allocate myself to a team so I was probably looking at your all time figures.

I am not going to get obsessive about this but I might try to spend a bit more time on the rower in my weekly gym session. However, I find even if I have a good drink immediately before rowing, by the end of 2km I'm gasping for a drink - actually before I figured out how to start to get the stroke rate down I was gasping after 1km.  How do those of you who do 5km or more in a stint cope? Do you pause for a drink or have you all got camelbacks on or something?  :-\
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: Chris S on January 07, 2011, 09:28:39 am
I sometimes pause halfway through a 10k for a drink and to ease my aching arse. I have more of an issue with the seat!

Do you get that thirsty normally?
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: andrew w on January 07, 2011, 09:45:58 am
I don't drink anything during a 10k row.  Mind you, I row in my garage where the temperature is only a few degress higher than the outside temperature, so it's rather different from making the same effort in a warm gym. 

As regards seat problems, I used to find 10k efforts uncomfortable, but now I just put a folded towel on the seat as a cushion, and it doesn't bother me any more.  I think you can buy seatpads from Concept2 if you feel so inclined.

The only other thing I would say in reply to Saturn's query is that for a 10k effort, you have to pace yourself.  You can't do it at the same intensity as a 2k row.  In that respect it's like going out for a run.  Most of us couldn't run 10k at the same pace as we could run 1500m!  I use my heart rate to regulate my efforts.  I work on the assumption that my absolute max HR is around 180, and I try to keep my 10k heart rate below about 155, except in the final 1000metres or so.  That way I can keep going without getting too overstressed.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: saturn on January 07, 2011, 10:04:53 am
Do you get that thirsty normally?

Not especially and I'm not a prolific sweater. I am accustomed to drinking regularly on the turbo / gym bike though - I'd expect to drink a full .75l bottle in 1 hour on the turbo. Last night I spent just under 2 hours in the gym and drank about 1.2 litres.

It may just be in the mind because during any other cardio exercise I'm conditioned to taking a gulp every 5 minutes so after 5 minutes (*) on the rower my brains telling me to take a drink.

Next time I'll maybe do an early easy session on the rower and see how far I can go, leaving a harder 2km session until later.

* Edit: I don't mean to imply I do 2km in 5 mins, it takes me 9 mins. After 5 mins I fancy a drink, after 9 mins my brains saying "I said drink ages ago FFS!"
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: simonp on January 07, 2011, 11:47:55 am
I do 2K to warm up then my 10K at a faster pace.

I take a 750ml bottle, with Torq Energy (similar to the High 5 Super Carbs stuff) I drink about half the bottle before the 2K, another 1/4 between the 2K and the 10K and the rest after, when I'm doing resistance stuff, then I go for a swim.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: Chris S on January 07, 2011, 12:09:17 pm
I do 2K to warm up then my 10K at a faster pace.

I take a 750ml bottle, with Torq Energy (similar to the High 5 Super Carbs stuff) I drink about half the bottle before the 2K, another 1/4 between the 2K and the 10K and the rest after, when I'm doing resistance stuff, then I go for a swim.


Yebbut - you're nuts.  ;D ;)

Right. I'm off to do the 10K I should have done yesterday. I went out on the bike in the end yesterday as, having seen the forecast for today, I realised I probably wouldn't want to go out today  :hand:.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: Manotea on January 07, 2011, 09:05:36 pm
I did a 10k on Tuesday & Thursday followed by some core work, that's it this week. I haven't even been out on the bike. Regardless, on the quiet I fnd a 10k quite a big effort, not after but the next day I feel a bit run down. It's probably a nutrition thing.

Mental note: don't even think about a 10k the day before an Audax.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: simonp on January 07, 2011, 10:15:41 pm
I do 2K to warm up then my 10K at a faster pace.

I take a 750ml bottle, with Torq Energy (similar to the High 5 Super Carbs stuff) I drink about half the bottle before the 2K, another 1/4 between the 2K and the 10K and the rest after, when I'm doing resistance stuff, then I go for a swim.


Yebbut - you're nuts.  ;D ;)

Right. I'm off to do the 10K I should have done yesterday. I went out on the bike in the end yesterday as, having seen the forecast for today, I realised I probably wouldn't want to go out today  :hand:.

I've done mine for today - putting me onto 43K.  That was the fastest I've done this year, but still slow compared to my PB.

My cough has improved a bit, which is nice.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: simonp on January 07, 2011, 10:39:58 pm
So here I am thinking my rowing times are a bit slow/it seems like hard work.

Except, I'm actually rowing faster times than a year ago.  I seem to be averaging around 30-60s faster for 10K than around the end of 2009/early 2010.  Furthermore, I've only rowed two > 42:00:00 times this time around, whereas back then the majority were over 42 minutes.  And most of these times are with me deliberately easing off.

 :facepalm:

Silly boy.

(Of course, these times are nowhere near the PB I set in June, though I did do one sub-40-minute time in December, just to see if I still could).
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: saturn on January 08, 2011, 12:06:56 pm
Just found out my daughter's training session at the pool that has the gym has been extended to 2.5 hours so no excuses for not clocking up a few more meters now  :)
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: simonp on January 10, 2011, 11:03:59 pm
That's me onto 67km. And I'm ahead of schedule on my 2011 swimming goal. :)
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: andrew w on January 11, 2011, 09:19:14 pm
I'm on 60,000 now, and I should get to 80,000 by the weekend.  Not losing much weight, though. :(
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: simonp on January 11, 2011, 11:53:26 pm
I'll be on 79k once I enter tonight's. Rest day (pub) tomorrow. Then push past 100k by the weekend I hope.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: simonp on January 12, 2011, 04:50:45 pm
I'm easing off the pace a bit. Whilst I can row 41:xx it is outside my comfort zone and is making me fatigued. So I maintained 2:08/500m last night, adding a minute, and that kept my HR below 150 father than hitting 170.  Then swam 750m front crawl in 20 minutes. :)
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: Chris S on January 12, 2011, 04:58:15 pm
I'm going to try the example cyclists interval session from the Concept website this evening. Just pre-charging with Toast and Marmite (220kcals) :thumbsup:

Edit: Wow, that was fun! This is what I did:

2000m Warmup at 2:30ish

5 mins @ 2:20
8 mins @ 2:15 with 20 stroke bursts of 1:55 split at minutes 4 and 7
2 mins @ 2:30 recovery
7 mins @ 2:15 with 20 stroke bursts of 1:55 split at minutes 2, 4 and 6
2 mins @ 2:30 recovery
6 mins @ 2:10 with 10 stroke bursts of 1:50 split at every other minute
5 mins @ 2:30 cool down

Of course, what I should have realised was that by continuing on to 10,000m after the interval session (which took me to about 7000m) would have easily beaten my PB for 10K. That's the plan for next week.

FWIW: 20 strokes @1:55 is easily enough to get my HR within 8-10 beats of my MHR, and I'm gasping   :sick:
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: simonp on January 12, 2011, 08:56:32 pm
It's interesting that you can do a faster pace than you have been doing on your 10k efforts.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: Chris S on January 12, 2011, 09:07:22 pm
It's interesting that you can do a faster pace than you have been doing on your 10k efforts.

Yes. I think doing intervals provides enough content and context for me to push myself. Just bashing out a 10 - it's so easy just to settle into a steady undemanding work rate.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: simonp on January 12, 2011, 10:30:45 pm
It's interesting that you can do a faster pace than you have been doing on your 10k efforts.

Yes. I think doing intervals provides enough content and context for me to push myself. Just bashing out a 10 - it's so easy just to settle into a steady undemanding work rate.

I have the opposite problem. I really have to force myself to go slow.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: Chris S on January 12, 2011, 11:17:18 pm
It's interesting that you can do a faster pace than you have been doing on your 10k efforts.

Yes. I think doing intervals provides enough content and context for me to push myself. Just bashing out a 10 - it's so easy just to settle into a steady undemanding work rate.

I have the opposite problem. I really have to force myself to go slow.

Hehe - your old audax problem haunting you on the rower too is it? I thought you'd been cured of the "blast away with the fast boys until you blow up" problem?  ;)
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: simonp on January 12, 2011, 11:37:33 pm
It's interesting that you can do a faster pace than you have been doing on your 10k efforts.

Yes. I think doing intervals provides enough content and context for me to push myself. Just bashing out a 10 - it's so easy just to settle into a steady undemanding work rate.

I have the opposite problem. I really have to force myself to go slow.

Hehe - your old audax problem haunting you on the rower too is it? I thought you'd been cured of the "blast away with the fast boys until you blow up" problem?  ;)

Not cured, I'm just better at it.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: Chris S on January 12, 2011, 11:40:54 pm
It's interesting that you can do a faster pace than you have been doing on your 10k efforts.

Yes. I think doing intervals provides enough content and context for me to push myself. Just bashing out a 10 - it's so easy just to settle into a steady undemanding work rate.

I have the opposite problem. I really have to force myself to go slow.

Hehe - your old audax problem haunting you on the rower too is it? I thought you'd been cured of the "blast away with the fast boys until you blow up" problem?  ;)

Not cured, I'm just better at it.


Ah. Someone else I can no longer keep up with  ::-).
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: simonp on January 12, 2011, 11:42:59 pm
It's interesting that you can do a faster pace than you have been doing on your 10k efforts.

Yes. I think doing intervals provides enough content and context for me to push myself. Just bashing out a 10 - it's so easy just to settle into a steady undemanding work rate.

I have the opposite problem. I really have to force myself to go slow.

Hehe - your old audax problem haunting you on the rower too is it? I thought you'd been cured of the "blast away with the fast boys until you blow up" problem?  ;)

Not cured, I'm just better at it.


Ah. Someone else I can no longer keep up with  ::-).

We'll see about that, I'm gonna be taking my Pompino out on a few events.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: Chris S on January 13, 2011, 04:11:03 pm
There's no doubt I worked hard yesterday - my legs were very heavy on my lunchtime 35k ride.

I'll have a rest day tomorrow, as it's audax day on Saturday. Probably no more rowing for me until Monday.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: saturn on January 13, 2011, 11:28:45 pm
OK, this is starting to come together for me. Faced with more time than normal in the gym tonight I thought I'd try for a longer row. I managed to keep the stroke rate down at 20 but still did the first 2km in less time than a month or so ago when I was doing around 35s/m. The difference was I could carry on going, so I did 5km and managed it without stopping for a drink whereas previously I've been gasping by 2km.  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: andrew w on January 15, 2011, 04:54:09 pm
Just rowed 15,000m at a fairly steady pace (1:08.25 in total, that's (2:16.8/500m).  Average heart rate 150, average stroke rate 25spm.  Don't feel too knackered, though I wouldn't like to it all over again right now!

That's my total metres for the month up to 85,000.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: Chris S on January 17, 2011, 06:14:02 pm
New PB for 10K  :thumbsup:.

Not bad for an old git, two days after a 200k audax  :smug:
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: simonp on January 17, 2011, 07:27:03 pm
Good going.

I haven't done anything for nearly a week now.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: andrew w on January 17, 2011, 09:26:13 pm
New PB for 10K  :thumbsup:.

Well done Chris!

I did another 10k tonight - nowhere near a PB though :(.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: saturn on January 17, 2011, 10:09:41 pm
I did my second 5k tonight, 55 secs faster than my first last week. Thanks to you guys I actually look forward to my time on the rower whereas a month or so ago I used to struggle to do 1km under sufferance  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: perpetual dan on January 18, 2011, 07:11:15 pm
I (finally) got round to starting rowing at the gym at work. I just did 3 lots of 5 minutes, varying effort and pace to see how it felt. Predictably set off a bit fast, but even at the end I was finding it hard to pace myself down to do as few as 24 strokes per minute.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: andrew w on January 19, 2011, 10:08:50 pm
Another 10k tonight - at a fairly sedate pace.  Now on 105,000 metres :).
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: Swarm_Catcher on January 20, 2011, 08:49:44 am
Another 10k tonight - at a fairly sedate pace.  Now on 105,000 metres :).
Excellent! I'm cranking it up too, hoping to end the month on 100K. 

We have a brand new gym at work with three brand new Concept ergos - absolutely no excuses.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: saturn on January 21, 2011, 02:48:25 pm
Another 52 secs off my 5km time last night although it felt like I've reaped the rewards of technique improvement now and that any further significant improvements will only come from working harder.

I can now maintain a steady 2:15/500 at 20 strokes p/m, if I really focus I can do 2:15 @ 18sp/m or 2:10 @20sp/m for a bit but then it soon drifts back to where I was.

So - do I just keep on doing the same or try to maintain the same speed at a sustained lower stroke rate or try to keep the technique while raising the stroke rate a touch?

NB - the answer is not to row further!
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: HTFB on January 21, 2011, 02:58:11 pm
If you can do 5k at 2:15 comfortably, try for 5k at 2:10. If you bring the resistance down slightly then you will be able to keep a similar technique as you let the rate come up a bit. Rates of 18-20 are quite hard to make lively; eventually you'll probably be doing your best 5k times at 24-28 or so.

(Depending on all sorts of variables of build and age and so forth, obviously.)
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: Wowbagger on January 23, 2011, 12:55:45 pm
Having resurrected my 10-year-old Waterrower and having used it a few times this week, I read this thread.

Notwithstanding the differences between Concept2 and Waterrower, I'm starkly aware of the gulf between what I can do compared to you fit young things. This morning, 20 minutes yielded 3.284km. I got hot, sweaty and out of breath so it must be doing me some good though.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: Chris S on January 23, 2011, 01:00:22 pm
Having resurrected my 10-year-old Waterrower and having used it a few times this week, I read this thread.

Notwithstanding the differences between Concept2 and Waterrower, I'm starkly aware of the gulf between what I can do compared to you fit young things. This morning, 20 minutes yielded 3.284km. I got hot, sweaty and out of breath so it must be doing me some good though.

Awesome!

With regard to the highlighted text - get hold of a fan. A big fan. It helps a lot. I use a 50cm diameter floor standing pedestal fan. Also a requirement for turbo training, unless one wants to experiment with spontaneous human combustion.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: Swarm_Catcher on January 23, 2011, 02:16:38 pm
The Killer Bees are beating us!

Them: 118 @ 548,163
Us: 125 @ 506,518

They have an extra person mind. 

After a 200 yesterday, I don't feel like rowing for the rest of the week.  But now I've seen this, I might just have a go to reach my 100K.  Only have till Friday. Hmmm....
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: Salvatore on January 23, 2011, 02:37:03 pm
We're ahead of the US army (321,227) but behind the US navy (1,187,618). Mind you, judging by their team photo, they are not using standard C2 equipment.

(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: FatBloke on January 23, 2011, 06:14:38 pm
Having resurrected my 10-year-old Waterrower and having used it a few times this week, I read this thread.

Notwithstanding the differences between Concept2 and Waterrower, I'm starkly aware of the gulf between what I can do compared to you fit young things. This morning, 20 minutes yielded 3.284km. I got hot, sweaty and out of breath so it must be doing me some good though.
You're more than welcome to come round and use the Concept2!!


....and then drink beer!!!       :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: Wowbagger on January 23, 2011, 11:54:16 pm
Having resurrected my 10-year-old Waterrower and having used it a few times this week, I read this thread.

Notwithstanding the differences between Concept2 and Waterrower, I'm starkly aware of the gulf between what I can do compared to you fit young things. This morning, 20 minutes yielded 3.284km. I got hot, sweaty and out of breath so it must be doing me some good though.
You're more than welcome to come round and use the Concept2!!


....and then drink beer!!!       :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

Or, given that my medication almost totally precludes alcohol, perhaps a sossidge sandwich? :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: Jasmine on January 24, 2011, 10:50:43 am
Another 52 secs off my 5km time last night although it felt like I've reaped the rewards of technique improvement now and that any further significant improvements will only come from working harder.

I can now maintain a steady 2:15/500 at 20 strokes p/m, if I really focus I can do 2:15 @ 18sp/m or 2:10 @20sp/m for a bit but then it soon drifts back to where I was.

So - do I just keep on doing the same or try to maintain the same speed at a sustained lower stroke rate or try to keep the technique while raising the stroke rate a touch?

NB - the answer is not to row further!

Rather than rowing steady state, try some interval type stuff.

When I was rowing reasonably seriously Ian Shore suggested the following types of erg workout as part of a larger programme:

6 x 500m R 20  --> row as hard as you can, keeping the rate down to 20 spm for 500 m; take 1-2minutes rest, then repeat for 6 sets.

3 x 1000m R 20 --> row as hard as you can, keeping the rate down to 20 spm for 1000 m; take 3-4 minutes rest, then repeat for 3 sets.

3 x 1500m R 20 --> row as hard as you can, keeping the rate down to 20 spm for 1500 m; take 3-4 minutes rest, then repeat for 3 sets.

Same ones as above but rating 22 or 24 spm is worth trying.

1  x 500 pace + 2 
1 x 1000 at pace
1x 250 pace -2               ( Pace = 2k Ergo target)

2mins work/ 2mins rest  for 30 mins

All the above workouts are shorter than your current 5k, but will get you used to doing higher pace.  Write the times down for your intervals.  They will improve with time; each set should actually be quite similar, but you will notice a slight decline in pace towards the last one.


Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: Wowbagger on January 24, 2011, 07:37:33 pm
Having watched the training video linked above, I seem to have improved my "technique" (not that I had any before) and instead of rowing at 30+ spm without much leg or back work, I just managed 5k at 22 spm in 32m 50s. I found I was far more relaxed and didn't find it such hard work, although I was marginally slower than I had been. I'm going to concentrate on getting my technique sorted out before worrying about improving my times though.

I find a physical problem in trying to take advantage of the full stroke length: my gut collides with my thighs long before my shins are vertical.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: simonp on January 24, 2011, 09:17:45 pm
I'm back! 5000m in 21:04.6.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: Manotea on January 24, 2011, 09:22:06 pm
The Killer Bees are beating us!

Them: 118 @ 548,163
Us: 125 @ 506,518

They have an extra person mind.  

After a 200 yesterday, I don't feel like rowing for the rest of the week.  But now I've seen this, I might just have a go to reach my 100K.  Only have till Friday. Hmmm....

Well, we're beating the KBs on average distance per member.

What, going for another 100km. That's a bit keen. Hmm, I only need to find another 38k myself and there's a week to go....

Did 2*5 this evening, then 20minutes core work, then realised a spin class was about to start so I did that as well. Best not tell simonp. It will only encourage him.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: simonp on January 24, 2011, 09:28:12 pm
I'm on 84k now. I might fall over the 100k mark.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: andrew w on January 25, 2011, 08:58:51 pm
10k last night and 10k tonight.  Both times I was still feeling lethargic after a bike ride on Sunday (only my second ride of the year).  I'm going to have a rest tomorrow, then probably 10k on Thursday and 10k on Saturday.  That would get me up to155k.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: simonp on January 25, 2011, 09:29:39 pm
Today was a cycling day. Tomorrow 5k.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: Wowbagger on January 26, 2011, 11:08:18 pm
Having watched the training video linked above, I seem to have improved my "technique" (not that I had any before) and instead of rowing at 30+ spm without much leg or back work, I just managed 5k at 22 spm in 32m 50s. I found I was far more relaxed and didn't find it such hard work, although I was marginally slower than I had been. I'm going to concentrate on getting my technique sorted out before worrying about improving my times though.

I seem to have forgotten the emboldened bit. 5k in 29m 34.9s just now. I didn't realise I'd set off more quickly. I did try to concentrate on my technique though.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: simonp on January 27, 2011, 12:28:30 am
5000m more. 20:27.0.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: Chris S on January 27, 2011, 09:56:49 pm
I'm still doing quite a lot of cycling, but a daily 5k row seems more manageable than 10k every other day.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: perpetual dan on January 27, 2011, 10:17:59 pm
I did a touch over 5k in a 30 minute row today (my third time using it). I now have a blister on my hand.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: simonp on January 27, 2011, 10:39:42 pm
I did a touch over 5k in a 30 minute row today (my third time using it). I now have a blister on my hand.

You should have started with a the 5 minute row.

IGMC.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: saturn on January 27, 2011, 11:48:14 pm
Did an extra 2k tonight in addition to the 5k to which I've recently become accustomed. Only 29k for the month from me but considering my original expectation of 2k per week, I'm happy. We're a gnat's whisker ahead of RfB, that's me done for this month so it's all down to you guys now  ;)
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: Swarm_Catcher on January 28, 2011, 09:00:56 am
That's me done too, not doing a meter more.  Didn't get to the Killer Bees, but they certainly motivated me.  Off on hols, yippeee!!
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: andrew w on January 28, 2011, 09:01:55 am
No rowing for me since Tuesday - suffering from man flu :(.  Will see how I feel at the weekend, as I would like to get my total up to 150k.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: Manotea on January 28, 2011, 08:37:43 pm
Did an extra 2k tonight in addition to the 5k to which I've recently become accustomed. Only 29k for the month from me but considering my original expectation of 2k per week, I'm happy. We're a gnat's whisker ahead of RfB, that's me done for this month so it's all down to you guys now  ;)

At the time of writing we're 15k down on the KBs. I'll be logging 14 for my 100 and I assume ChrisS currently on 72 will be doing 3x10 over the next three days for his (isn't that right, Chris?) so it might yet go to the wire.

Not  that I'm competitive but now we're here we might as well win.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: Chris S on January 28, 2011, 10:17:43 pm
Did an extra 2k tonight in addition to the 5k to which I've recently become accustomed. Only 29k for the month from me but considering my original expectation of 2k per week, I'm happy. We're a gnat's whisker ahead of RfB, that's me done for this month so it's all down to you guys now  ;)

... I assume ChrisS currently on 72 will be doing 3x10 over the next three days for his (isn't that right, Chris?) ...

Erm. That's quite a big assumption TBH  :facepalm:
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: simonp on January 29, 2011, 12:09:01 am
I've added another 5k. 19:52.6.

Doing faster 5Ks doesn't kill me the next day the way 10k would at that pace.

I am tempted to try to improve my 5k pb (19:32.x). I spent much of that 5k at 1:55 and I suspect I could do a better time if I warmed up then set off at 1:56 or so. Something to try anyway.

Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: Manotea on January 29, 2011, 12:37:10 am
Having previously been under 20:00 I've been stuck around 21:00 for quite a while. On the other hand I'm currently just jogging along and my spm is coming down which AIUI is all good.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: Wascally Weasel on January 29, 2011, 01:00:35 am
Did an extra 2k tonight in addition to the 5k to which I've recently become accustomed. Only 29k for the month from me but considering my original expectation of 2k per week, I'm happy. We're a gnat's whisker ahead of RfB, that's me done for this month so it's all down to you guys now  ;)

At the time of writing we're 15k down on the KBs. I'll be logging 14 for my 100 and I assume ChrisS currently on 72 will be doing 3x10 over the next three days for his (isn't that right, Chris?) so it might yet go to the wire.

Not  that I'm competitive but now we're here we might as well win.

I might be back soon.  Back when I used to row properly as a sport I was an erg monster so I might have some epic mileage to record if I get my arse in gear again - I did say this last year too but hope to get going again in the next few months.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: Chris S on January 29, 2011, 05:49:06 pm
Ah, Rowing heaven.

A steady 10k, watching Mark Knopfler - A Life in Songs, recorded on the MythTV Box last night. An hour flew by.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: Swarm_Catcher on January 30, 2011, 07:52:55 pm
At the time of writing we're 15k down on the KBs.
Yes! We're ahead ... by 2.5K !! Excellent work everybody!

KBs are a US team, so it really may get to the wire, will they pip us at the post when our day is over?
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: Manotea on January 30, 2011, 07:55:27 pm
Good effort Chris though tomorrow needs to be a monster day. 2x7 will do it. I just need 7km to see out January.

Yes, as I write, the KBs are history. Savour the moment but let's not be complacent. It's not over till it's over.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: saturn on January 30, 2011, 08:05:48 pm
Errmm, seems like there is after all one remaining Monday this month so I might be able to find another 5k
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: rower40 on January 30, 2011, 08:23:23 pm
(* Blues riff..  because I was wearing blue on the river today *)

I woke up this morning,
Even before the six-o-clock news.

Well I woke up this morning,
And I'd used up my last excuse.

I've got those "I don't wannabe out on the river on a cold January morning" blues.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: Wowbagger on January 30, 2011, 08:26:00 pm
(* Blues riff..  because I was wearing blue on the river today *)

I woke up this morning,
Even before the six-o-clock news.

Well I woke up this morning,
And I'd used up my last excuse.

I've got those "I don't wannabe out on the river on a cold January morning" blues.

Well, not much longer to wait. It will be February on Tuesday!  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: Chris S on January 30, 2011, 09:05:16 pm
Good effort Chris though tomorrow needs to be a monster day. 2x7 will do it. I just need 7km to see out January.

OK - you're on. Today was all about the bike I'm afraid.

BTW - ITYM 2x8 ;)
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: simonp on January 30, 2011, 09:07:33 pm
Well, I did it. 1000m warm up then obliterated my 5000m PB.  :o

Average power was 238W. I'm going to be wrecked tomorrow.

I'd tell you the time but you'd not believe me.  :P
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: simonp on January 30, 2011, 11:17:29 pm
Ranked it. 25th out of 170 in 30-39 lightweight male. Given I'm at the top end of that age range, I'm quite pleased with that to say the least.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: Wowbagger on January 30, 2011, 11:18:49 pm
OK - what time was it?
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: simonp on January 30, 2011, 11:33:03 pm
18:57.1

I was planning to try just to shave a bit off the old PB (19:32.1 or thereabouts) which the 1:56 I mentioned would have achieved. But I overdid the first few pulls and found myself at around 1:53 then found it difficult to ease off. So I just stuck with it, eventually settling down to 1:53-1:54. I didn't have a hrm on, I think that would have just scared me. I wasn't sure I would be able to hold that pace but by half way I'd an average of 1:53.8 and I knew that even if I eased off to 2:00 for the second half it'd still be a PB. From 2000m to go I was hanging on a bit and slowed to 1:55 for a while but managed to up the pace from about 500m and got below 1:50 at the end. Average pace ended up at 1:53.7.

Stomach felt a bit funny at times, but ok as soon as I stopped and I recovered quickly. Went and did nearly an hour's abs & core routine, and then 500m slightly subdued swimming.

Still not as fast as Andy's PB afaik.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: Wowbagger on January 30, 2011, 11:39:20 pm
18:57.1

I was planning to try just to shave a bit off the old PB (19:32.1 or thereabouts) which the 1:56 I mentioned would have achieved. But I overdid the first few pulls and found myself at around 1:53 then found it difficult to ease off. So I just stuck with it, eventually settling down to 1:53-1:54. I didn't have a hrm on, I think that would have just scared me. I wasn't sure I would be able to hold that pace but by half way I'd an average of 1:53.8 and I knew that even if I eased off to 2:00 for the second half it'd still be a PB. From 2000m to go I was hanging on a bit and slowed to 1:55 for a while but managed to up the pace from about 500m and got below 1:50 at the end. Average pace ended up at 1:53.7.

Stomach felt a bit funny at times, but ok as soon as I stopped and I recovered quickly. Went and did nearly an hour's abs & core routine, and then 500m slightly subdued swimming.

Still not as fast as Andy's PB afaik.

I'm still quite chuffed with my 29m 30-odd seconds. Trouble is, the back's playing up at the moment and I reckon giving the rowing a rest until it's better might not be that bad an idea.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: simonp on January 30, 2011, 11:44:30 pm
There was no way in my mid 20s could I have done that. I joined a gym. They said row 1500m in my work-outs.  Rowing at 2:05ish for 1000m killed me.

I think it clicked after swimming classes. More upper body strength and better technique.

You're wise to rest your back. Maybe work at shorter distances as well.

In my abs and core work out I really struggle with the back exercise. Suggests I've weak back muscles. Something to work on.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: Chris S on January 31, 2011, 08:32:13 am
First instalment done  :thumbsup:.

In fact, I rowed 10k. But it was slow. Slow and tough going; the poor old bod is a bit tired after hilly exertions on the bike yesterday.

More fun later.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: simonp on January 31, 2011, 09:54:34 am
Ouch.

To get 7 minutes for 7000m equates to 1:45.0 which is about 300 Watts.

300 W for 7 minutes. Hmmmm.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: simonp on January 31, 2011, 01:07:37 pm
The damage:

 - my left knee was a bit achy after the row, and both knees are slightly stiff this morning
 - I have a slightly sore right wrist (outside edge)
 - I'm knackered.  I didn't even cycle to work.

Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: Salvatore on January 31, 2011, 03:42:44 pm
FAO swarm_catcher:

(http://i238.photobucket.com/albums/ff320/jspooner99/kbs.jpg)

 :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: Swarm_Catcher on January 31, 2011, 04:32:29 pm
 ;D lovely jobely!  :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

Well done everybody, amazing! 
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: andrew w on January 31, 2011, 04:56:22 pm
Sorry I wasn't able to do more in the final week of the challenge.  I had a rest day last Wednesday, then on Thursday I was struck down with some flu-like virus.  Since then I haven't been able to do any rowing at all :(.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: simonp on January 31, 2011, 05:00:25 pm
I thought I was on 95,000m.  I'm on 100,000m.

I'm not doing any more.   :P
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: Wowbagger on January 31, 2011, 05:02:28 pm
This challenge: does it happen every month? Is it only open to Concept owners?
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: Chris S on January 31, 2011, 05:07:04 pm
This challenge: does it happen every month? Is it only open to Concept owners?

The Concept website have regular challenges, both individual and team-based that pop up all year round. The January one is a regular. All you need is to use the Concept online logbook to log your rowing sessions, and sign up to any teams that you might fancy (eg: YACF). To my knowledge, nobody checks whether you row on a Concept or not.

Just another 6k for me to get to 100k for January. I have perma-hunger today, so have just had a marmalade sandwich in preparation. Better get and row quick, before I'm hungry again...
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: simonp on January 31, 2011, 05:16:35 pm
This challenge: does it happen every month? Is it only open to Concept owners?

The Concept website have regular challenges, both individual and team-based that pop up all year round. The January one is a regular. All you need is to use the Concept online logbook to log your rowing sessions, and sign up to any teams that you might fancy (eg: YACF). To my knowledge, nobody checks whether you row on a Concept or not.

Just another 6k for me to get to 100k for January. I have perma-hunger today, so have just had a marmalade sandwich in preparation. Better get and row quick, before I'm hungry again...

AFAICT, you're not supposed to rank pieces done on non Concept II equipment.  And for top-three placings you have to prove it was on a Concept II.  Other than that, there are AFAIK no checks.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: simonp on January 31, 2011, 05:20:19 pm
This is the next challenge:

Concept2: Valentine Challenge (http://www.concept2.com/us/motivation/challenges/individual/valentinechallenge.asp)

Useless.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: simonp on January 31, 2011, 05:21:33 pm
As for the March Madness:

Concept2: March Madness (http://www.concept2.com/us/motivation/challenges/individual/marchmadness.asp)

 :hand:
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: Chris S on January 31, 2011, 06:04:51 pm
There you go - 101k. Phew - 16.5k is the most I've rowed in one day. Manotea - you are a bad man... ;)

Anyhoo... an excellent team effort folks  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: Manotea on January 31, 2011, 08:23:33 pm
Against all the odds, Mr Smith steals the third spot on the podium (no sneaking back to put in another 5km, simonp!).

Thought I'd have a go at a PB but blew up after 2km no faster than I was six months ago. Pathetic.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: Chris S on January 31, 2011, 08:32:00 pm
718,488 total.

Next team challenge - we should shoot for a million.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: simonp on January 31, 2011, 10:07:08 pm
Against all the odds, Mr Smith steals the third spot on the podium (no sneaking back to put in another 5km, simonp!).

Thought I'd have a go at a PB but blew up after 2km no faster than I was six months ago. Pathetic.

You need a day or two rest at least to do a PB.

I have been to the gym. I swam 750m then did the sauna, plunge pool, spa. That was it.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: simonp on February 01, 2011, 01:11:53 am
Oh, interesting:

Quote
Does LT change based on the type of exercise? Yes, the lactate threshold is specific to the exercise task. So if a cyclist moves to rowing, (s)he will fatigue at a lower heart rate initially as rowing employs different muscles, generally less trained. Since these muscles are less trained, the cyclist's rowing LT will be considerably lower. Thus heart rate cannot be used as a guide in "cross training activities". athlete.

So nicely explaining why I had an LT of 225W but could only row at around 200W but can now row at around 240W.

The cycling LT was probably pushing 250W last year.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: Chris S on February 01, 2011, 08:49:23 am
I certainly noticed that when I started rowing. I could pound away on the pedals at 150bpm and be comfortably under my LT, whereas trying to row at 150bpm would have me close to puking.

I've got better, but 140bpm still represents the fastest "cruise" I can do when rowing. The 2x20s I do on the bike are at 160bpm.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: Manotea on February 05, 2011, 04:20:10 pm
First time under 20 minutes for me at 5km at 19:38, huzzah!

A sub 40 minute 10k feels a long way off...
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: simonp on February 05, 2011, 04:24:28 pm
First time under 20 minutes for me at 5km at 19:38, huzzah!

A sub 40 minute 10k feels a long way off...

Until last weekend that would be better than anything I've done in the last year or so. Phew!  :D

(Did you do the day or two of rest thing?)
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: Manotea on February 05, 2011, 04:29:37 pm
First time under 20 minutes for me at 5km at 19:38, huzzah!

A sub 40 minute 10k feels a long way off...

Until last weekend that would be better than anything I've done in the last year or so. Phew!  :D

(Did you do the day or two of rest thing?)

Yup, not intentionally though. I've put in some laps of Richmond Park the last couple of days (~40km/d). Went to the gym today because it's a bit blowy out and I'm on a DIY200 tomorrow. I've been feeling a bit heavy legged and blagghh today actually. Hopefully I'll get some sleep tonight and be ready to go in the morning.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: simonp on February 05, 2011, 04:51:19 pm
I'm not surprised you feel it the next day. I think rowing is good for leg strength due to the low stroke rate, but it's draining the next day if you push yourself. It wasn't so long ago that I struggled a bit doing 2x20 bike intervals at 210W and I was around 240W for my PB. That's close to my 5x5 interval power from last year.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: andrew w on February 06, 2011, 05:04:31 pm
Did my first session on the rower since going down with the lurgy about 10 days ago.  Managed 10000m in just over 45 mins without coughing my guts up, so not too disappointed with that.  Just need to get back into a regular routine again now to build up some aerobic fitness and to assist with weight loss.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: Manotea on February 08, 2011, 10:52:12 pm
Having done exactly nothing since a 200km bike ride on Sunday I popped along to the gym to sneak in a quick 5k before they closed. I'm obviously well rested because I snuck under 20min again, 19:58. It wasn't a very disciplined workout though as I was pushing (pulling?) a fairly high spm most of the way.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: simonp on February 09, 2011, 01:47:09 am
This is the next challenge:

Concept2: Valentine Challenge (http://www.concept2.com/us/motivation/challenges/individual/valentinechallenge.asp)

Useless.


14km in 6 days. Well, I suppose I ought to do it. Who do I send my card to, though?


Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: Manotea on February 09, 2011, 09:40:27 am
This is the next challenge:

Concept2: Valentine Challenge (http://www.concept2.com/us/motivation/challenges/individual/valentinechallenge.asp)

Useless.


14km in 6 days. Well, I suppose I ought to do it. Who do I send my card to, though?


I think you ought to try for 14k for 6 days. Go on. You know you want to.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: Gus on February 09, 2011, 08:40:43 pm
Well now I've tried rowing too. I have joined the logbook on C2 nad entered some 2000meters and a 5000 meter.
So now I have to target I have to improve :

2000 M : 08:30:5
5000 M : 22:05:9

So there are plenty of room for improvements  :-\

Just a question :
What are your damper setting; I have rowed on 6-7, but it looks like I should lower it  a bit according to C2 webside.  ???
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: Chris S on February 09, 2011, 08:54:51 pm
Just a question :
What are your damper setting; I have rowed on 6-7, but it looks like I should lower it  a bit according to C2 webside.  ???

"Whatever you are comfortable with" would seem to be the right answer. It's like riding a fixed gear bike - some can turn a Big Gear and Low Cadence - others prefer a Lower Gear and Higher Cadence. It's down to how you work best.

I've settled on about 6 for me.

Anyone who says "You wuss - only 10 will do" clearly hasn't tried to ride a 104" fixed gear bike  ;).

Welcome to the YACF rowing fraternity  :D.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: simonp on February 09, 2011, 10:36:29 pm
Well now I've tried rowing too. I have joined the logbook on C2 nad entered some 2000meters and a 5000 meter.
So now I have to target I have to improve :

2000 M : 08:30:5
5000 M : 22:05:9

So there are plenty of room for improvements  :-\

Just a question :
What are your damper setting; I have rowed on 6-7, but it looks like I should lower it  a bit according to C2 webside.  ???

Not a bad start. I always use level 4.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: Marco Stefano on February 10, 2011, 08:50:03 pm
Depends on the machine, they are different & drag drops as they get full up with dust & crud.

On model Cs if you press 'REST' & OK' buttons simultaneously and then start rowing (at about 2:15 split) it will give a drag factor in the bottom right of the display. Increasing the damper setting (1 - 10) increases the drag factor. Somewhere between 125 & 150 will suit most people, but have a play and see what suits you best. With this you can set up any machine to have the same drag regardless of any foibles. Dunno about new fangled D, E & Dynamic models.

New ergo ladder in rowing club & intervention of British Rowing 'Start' programme coach has thrown up (unfortunate turn of phrase) new hard-as-you-can tests:
30 mins at 20spm (horrible)
250m at 40-44spm (barking).
You're welcome to have as much fun with those as can be wrung out...
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: simonp on February 11, 2011, 12:07:47 am
It's on one of the menus on the PM3. I found level 4 was in the suggested range from the concept io website on the machines at my gym.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: Gus on February 11, 2011, 01:55:16 pm
Ah I have learned to find the  drag factor on the machines now, I rowed at around 120-130 on the two machines I have tested.
Just rowed 6879 meters in 30 min. and I was not completely bombed after the work out.

But most of my body will properly feel it tomorrow.  :-\ 
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: Gus on February 13, 2011, 06:06:25 pm
something went very wrong today.
 I was suppose to row a relaxed 2000 m, but I ended up breaking my PB
and crossing the 8 min mark. new pm : 7,51,1  ???
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: simonp on February 13, 2011, 06:28:44 pm
something went very wrong today.
 I was suppose to row a relaxed 2000 m, but I ended up breaking my PB
and crossing the 8 min mark. new pm : 7,51,1  ???

Good going!

I may not finish the valentines challenge: have done 10k so in theory I can do another 5 tomorrow but I feel like I've just caught a cold. If I have, I won't be troubling the rowing machine for at least a week.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: simonp on February 15, 2011, 01:37:24 am
Seems it was a lurgy false alarm, was fine today.

So I went to the gym. Slightly sluggish on the rower. 21:06.7. Then did various strength stuff. Including squats. I broke my quads. They are hurting when I go down the stairs. Ow.

Pathetic 250m swim too.  Then I went home and ate an entire wedge of Stilton and 18 oatcakes. Burp!
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: Manotea on February 15, 2011, 09:31:03 am
Done my valentine thingy with 3x5. I see some chaps knocked out 350km in the same period...
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: Gus on February 23, 2011, 05:08:41 pm
Still improving  and getting fitter, since I never had rowed before I learned that my technique was BAD.
Now  I'm feeling the improvements in each stroke, but there is still a long way to go.
New PB on 5000 M : 20.49,6  :thumbsup:

This is the only good thing the cold weather and snow have brought me until now, I have nearly 0 miles of cycling
this year.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: Manotea on February 24, 2011, 05:42:56 pm
I did a 42min 10k on Tuesday and went along to the gym last night feeling a bit rundown but feeling I ought to do something to work off the vast amount of scoff I'd eaten all day and did a 1:34 Half Marathon (21097m). I was on schedule for 1:30 but I had to stop a few times around 15km when my glutes started screaming something to the effect of 'what the f**king hell is going on'. But I worked through it and finished well, working consistently to the end with the last km passing at sub 2:00/500m pace. Overage average was 24spm. When I stopped there was a moment of hilarity when I realised the erg was sitting in a veritable pool of standing water. Lovely. Mopped up and showered feeling 'fine' and feel fine today apart from being in a state of shock. I obviously haven't been riding my bike enough. Still spring is just about here.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: simonp on February 24, 2011, 06:14:03 pm
Even with good choons I very much doubt I'd have the willpower for that. Well done!
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: Manotea on February 24, 2011, 06:23:57 pm
Even with good choons I very much doubt I'd have the willpower for that. Well done!

Willpower be damned. Audio books are your friend, in my case, 'The colour of Magic' by Terry Pratchett. I'm up to chapter 24 of 85...
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: Chris S on February 24, 2011, 08:37:04 pm
I did a 42min 10k on Tuesday and went along to the gym last night feeling a bit rundown but feeling I ought to do something to work off the vast amount of scoff I'd eaten all day and did ... <snip something pretty incredible>

 :o

Respect! I thought 15k was barking when I did it, but 21k is totally gaga. Well done indeed  :thumbsup:.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: Marco Stefano on February 25, 2011, 08:56:43 pm
"I ought to do something to work off the vast amount of scoff I'd eaten all day and did a 1:34 Half Marathon", like you do...  Chapeaux!

Blimey, 30 mins @20spm put me in the 'wringable' category (after my C-Breeze blew off in the warm-up), you must have been near floating.

Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: Manotea on March 01, 2011, 11:49:36 pm
I think my bum is getting bigger becoming more muscular. That's a good thing, right?
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: simonp on March 02, 2011, 01:01:13 am
I think my bum is getting bigger becoming more muscular. That's a good thing, right?

I think Mrs Manotea should be the judge of that.  :P
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: Manotea on March 04, 2011, 10:09:50 pm
Well chaps, its March madness now. That will be 25 * 5km...
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: simonp on March 04, 2011, 10:13:07 pm
Oiss pff.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: Swarm_Catcher on March 08, 2011, 10:03:15 pm
I've "missed out" and the March Madness, and see that another team challenge is coming up on 15th March.

Simon, did you intend to enter the team?
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: simonp on March 08, 2011, 11:45:27 pm
I've "missed out" and the March Madness, and see that another team challenge is coming up on 15th March.

Simon, did you intend to enter the team?

Mmmpf?  What?  Team?

Oh, I think you can just use the existing team, yacf, it still exists.  Just go to the teams page,
Concept2 Online Logbook
 (http://www.concept2.com/sranking03/log_team.asp) , and then click the link to join the challenge.  Hopefully.

Oh, tried that and it said the team wasn't signed up.  It is now, so you can see standings.  Each member still needs to sign up individually to have their metres count.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: Manotea on March 09, 2011, 06:22:33 am
March Madness is a tricky one for AUKs as it effectively means that you have to plan on being in the gym most every day that you are not riding. Anyway's I've only done two sessions to-date so it's already a bust for me. I'll sign up for the World Challenge though. You've got to be in it to win it, though it would be a truly sad day for the world of rowing if we did!
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: Swarm_Catcher on March 09, 2011, 06:41:29 am
I'm not intending to do long distances, but interval sessions. The challenge will still motivate me to do them regularly.

Thanks, Simon.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: Manotea on March 09, 2011, 09:48:46 am
The C2s in my gym have PM4 monitors, so I've bought a logcard, £5 from the C2 website. I iz hardcore now.

You can interrogate the card on the monitor or buy a card reader for your PC. C2 have their own badged reader but they are a standard piece of kit gettable for half the price on eBay. Clicky. (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=200572291990&ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT)
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: Gus on March 09, 2011, 01:18:17 pm
I'm still in it for March madness, I missed out on 2 days because I had a badminton tournament
But I hope to complete it  :thumbsup:

Oh and I have signed up for the team challenge for YACF. I might just as well row since there are no
signs of spring yet.  :(
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: Gus on March 15, 2011, 09:54:15 am
well the cold wind from the east have returned, so I went to the gym this morning.
New PB on 10.000 meters 43.08  :D all most an improvement of 3 minutes in a month,
I'm getting fitter again.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: simonp on March 16, 2011, 11:32:26 pm
So we are getting the metres in: I have done 2x10,000 so far.

The first was 44:44.1; the second 44:44.4.  Only took two attempts to hit it.

No, I'm not going to be trying for 33:33.3 next.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: simonp on March 17, 2011, 11:09:05 pm
Tonight's boring target was 150W average power.  Burned 600 calories.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: Manotea on March 18, 2011, 07:56:57 am
I've got most of the Discworld novels on MP3 and now associate 'reading' the novels with using the Erg. If I want to find out what happens next I have to go to the gym. Did an easy 44m 10K (2:10/500m) last night, just jogging along listening to Terry (Nigel Planer, actually). This sort of pace is fairly effortless at the moment, positively audaxesque, I just relax into it and chug long. I'm going to have a crack at a full marathon Mararthon in the next couple of weeks. I need to get it done before the bike mileage starts to crank up as I expect I'll lose some upper body strength and I will not have time to recover between events.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: Chris S on March 20, 2011, 11:58:21 am
Long time since I tried for a PB at anything, and I've been on core tone work for a few weeks now, so thought I'd give a fast 5k a bash. 20:51.4, which creamed my previous PB.

Woo Hoo!

Sub 20 still seems only a remote possibility - but you never know...
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: Gus on March 20, 2011, 04:48:19 pm
Great news Chris, and keep training and the 20 minute mark will be broken.

I have lowered my 10 km PB to 41.58, but I could feel it in my body for 3 days.  :(
I'm still in for March Madness and keep logging between 5 km and 15 km á day for the World Erg Challenge.  :smug:
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: fboab on March 20, 2011, 05:50:57 pm
I think my bum is getting bigger becoming more muscular. That's a good thing, right?

Hold on.. rowing may make my backside even bigger?

I'm not doing it any more!
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: lastant on March 21, 2011, 01:19:19 pm
Right, I'll apologise to start by saying I'm more of a ghoster than a poster on these forums but I do try to keep abreast with bits and pieces. Anyway...I've just signed up to Fitness First and am keen on picking up rowing again having not done it for bloody ages.

So, any tips on a good starter / beginners programme at all?
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: simonp on March 21, 2011, 01:34:28 pm
Have a look at the concept ii website. They have technique advice on there. I'd suggest starting with no more than 2km and at a fairly easy pace, and don't be tempted to set the level high. Keep the stroke rate down to about 25spm and concentrate on form.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: Chris S on March 21, 2011, 06:05:23 pm
So, any tips on a good starter / beginners programme at all?

Here's one of my early posts from up-thread, re - technique.

Cross Training: Rowing (http://yacf.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=23807.msg427062#msg427062)
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: Greenbank on March 24, 2011, 09:46:52 am
BBC Sport - Rowing - Pinsent watches Boat Race 'beast' in fitness test (http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/other_sports/rowing/9433794.stm)

Screengrab of the numbers from his test:-

http://www.greenbank.org/misc/rowscreengrab.jpg

Averaging over 500W for more than 4 minutes. Eeek.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: simonp on March 24, 2011, 09:56:54 am
500W I tried that once on an exercise bike at the gym once. I did not maintain it for 4 minutes. Maybe a minute.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: Panoramix on March 24, 2011, 12:37:29 pm
that is a 1:28 split.  :o

You need about 2 x ( Panoramix when he was 30 years old) to make 1 of him! And he weights just 30% more than me.

I have no idea what my 2k time would be today, he is probably worth 2.5 panoramixes now!
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: simonp on March 24, 2011, 01:05:39 pm
I averaged 238W for my 5k PB. How many panoramixes?  I'm 39 and I was quite a bit slower at 30.

I think this should be the new SI unit of rowing.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: Panoramix on March 25, 2011, 12:29:45 am
According to this:

Concept2 Training Guide - Training - Concept2 (http://concept2.co.uk/training/guide/watts_conversion)

The Panoramix is (or was) worth about 275W (My PB was 7:05).

I was rowing and my fitness compared to others was not exceptional tbh, there was one or 2 ergo beasts able to pull a 6:30. Typically properly trained men were doing 6:50. They got me from 7:30 to 7:05 in 4 months  :o but I then met the soon to be Mrs P...
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: simonp on March 25, 2011, 12:44:08 am
I keep telling myself I should try for a 7:00.  Then I think "I don't want to die!" :)

7:26 is my best time.  I could average 293W for 5 minutes on the bike, in 2009.  So >250W for 7 - 8 minutes seems do-able in principle.

But it'd hurt.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: Panoramix on March 25, 2011, 12:49:01 am
The theory is simple: "keep the split time below 1:45"

For some reason I would always have a bad patch at some point!
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: lastant on March 25, 2011, 10:35:33 am
Have a look at the concept ii website. They have technique advice on there. I'd suggest starting with no more than 2km and at a fairly easy pace, and don't be tempted to set the level high. Keep the stroke rate down to about 25spm and concentrate on form.

So I went and started today, using this advice, and did 2015m in 09:40 (average stroke rate of 27spm) - it felt reasonably comfortable so pretty sure I could push it. Having a look at the training programmes on the website now to get myself geared up to regular sessions.

Also took the liberty of signing up to the YACF group on the website. Apologies if this isn't welcome, can quite easily 'de-sign' if necessary!
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: simonp on March 25, 2011, 12:03:29 pm
You're more than welcome to join in.

I have been taking it fairly easy and outputting about 160W.  Colleague was at the gym and saw me doing that, and commented that I hardly seemed to be making any effort or breathing particularly.  This is the kind of power I do all day on the bike so it's not surprising really that I can do it comfortably now.

200W for 10,000m is very hard for me though.  I only did that once.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: Gus on March 25, 2011, 01:04:26 pm

200W for 10,000m is very hard for me though.  I only did that once.


 :sick: I would die if I tried that. But I'm improving my fitness on today's 5000 m I finished
the last 2000m in  7.50minutes (217W), that is WAY faster than I thought I could manage and my PB for
that distance.  :-[
But for 10000m I'm not able to get higher than 175W
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: Manotea on March 25, 2011, 10:01:28 pm

200W for 10,000m is very hard for me though.  I only did that once.


 :sick: I would die if I tried that. But I'm improving my fitness on today's 5000 m I finished
the last 2000m in  7.50minutes (217W), that is WAY faster than I thought I could manage and my PB for
that distance.  :-[
But for 10000m I'm not able to get higher than 175W

It's funny how one gets a second wind for the last section. No need to conserve energy, just go for it and get the pain over asap!
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: simonp on March 25, 2011, 10:20:21 pm

200W for 10,000m is very hard for me though.  I only did that once.


 :sick: I would die if I tried that. But I'm improving my fitness on today's 5000 m I finished
the last 2000m in  7.50minutes (217W), that is WAY faster than I thought I could manage and my PB for
that distance.  :-[
But for 10000m I'm not able to get higher than 175W

Correction.  1:58.4 average pace is 210.9W.

My 5k PB is around 238W; 2k PB 252W.

I think I should be able to do a faster 2k time now.  Motivation may be the issue.  Getting down to 7:00 requires maintaining just over 300W.  I don't think I could do that.

Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: Panoramix on March 26, 2011, 08:45:58 am
I think I should be able to do a faster 2k time now.  Motivation may be the issue.  Getting down to 7:00 requires maintaining just over 300W. 

I would guess that motivation and resistance to pain is probably worth about 15s. To be consistently at your "physiological" max power output requires a great deal of will power IMO.

Most rowing races at amateur level are won or lost when part of the crew looses the will to live! I used to really enjoy my rowing but still not sure why one should enjoy such a masochistic sport.

In some way audaxing is diametrically opposed to rowing. 15 hours very low intensity vs 10 minutes very high intensity.

I tend to climb a bit better than the average audaxer and I suspect that it is a legacy from my rowing time.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: Gus on March 27, 2011, 01:23:54 pm

It's funny how one gets a second wind for the last section. No need to conserve energy, just go for it and get the pain over asap!

I have just tried your advice (http://smiliestation.de/smileys/Schilder/89.gif) (http://prepaid.putblog.com/) I spend 7 hours doing absolutely nothing at work, I was on Backup if someone overslept or was sick.

so I started with a 5000m warm up on just under 22 minutes and then tried 2000m on full speed.
Result : I lowered my PB with 21 seconds to 7.30,0  or 245,8W average  :D :D

 :thumbsup: THANK YOU  Manotea  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: Manotea on March 27, 2011, 09:26:22 pm

It's funny how one gets a second wind for the last section. No need to conserve energy, just go for it and get the pain over asap!

I have just tried your advice (http://smiliestation.de/smileys/Schilder/89.gif) (http://prepaid.putblog.com/) I spend 7 hours doing absolutely nothing at work, I was on Backup if someone overslept or was sick.

so I started with a 5000m warm up on just under 22 minutes and then tried 2000m on full speed.
Result : I lowered my PB with 21 seconds to 7.30,0  or 245,8W average  :D :D

 :thumbsup: THANK YOU  Manotea  :thumbsup:

Well done, Gus.  Do you log your times on the C2 website (logbook)?

I'm going have a proper go at hitting my targets for the ranking distances before the C2 season ends at the end of April.  I'd be quite happy with a 7:30/2k; currently I'm sitting 7:38.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: Gus on March 28, 2011, 11:21:04 am
Well done, Gus.  Do you log your times on the C2 website (logbook)?

I'm going have a proper go at hitting my targets for the ranking distances before the C2 season ends at the end of April.  I'd be quite happy with a 7:30/2k; currently I'm sitting 7:38.

Yes I log all my workouts on the C2 logbook and  I've joined the YACF team for the World Erg too.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: Marco Stefano on March 28, 2011, 05:31:18 pm
Well done Gus.  :thumbsup:

I think the key is a really good warm-up; with long steady-state efforts (40 mins-plus) I just get into it, but a 2K needs a really serious warm-up. I think your 5k beforehand did just that. 10-stroke race pace bursts (one each minute, then slow & light) also recommended for the last 5 minutes to get really hot & sweaty, & get race face gurning sorted out.

Marco
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: lastant on March 30, 2011, 11:41:23 am
Right...have done a few sessions now and have to say I'm enjoying it - always said I wanted to have a gym membership to do bits that I couldn't do 'normally' (like running) and this fits in with that.

Anyway, having now had a look at the Paul's Beginner Training Plan (http://thepeteplan.wordpress.com/beginner-training/) I think I'm going to follow that to give me some structure over the next six-ish months (!!!).

Just one question - I've noticed on there, and the advice here, that I should keep the strokes per minute to c.25. Is the reasoning behind this to ensure correct technique and develop power?
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: Manotea on March 31, 2011, 11:45:05 pm
I'm a new rowerConcept2 User... but Ms Manotea the Elder encouraged me to go for a slower stroke rate. As you say it helps focus on technique and power. I also found it helped me relax and tackle longer distances. Reducing the unproductive work element - just moving the body back and forth uses a lot effort - helps keep the CV down. Until you nail the power/technique, going 'faster' means increasing the stroke rate, and you can only keep up 30+ spm for so long until you 'blow up'.

Somebody who knows what they are talking about will be along soon.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: JJ on April 01, 2011, 01:07:13 am
Here's the thing.  To get a big score on the machine, you just need to keep the wheel spinning.  You get no credit for how many times you thrash up and down the slide.  So the trick is to get as long and powerful an acceleration phase as possible, and leave it spinning as fast as possible.  Then you leave it, and leave it, and leave it, relaxing your muscles and letting the blood flow round them and coiling them back up again ready for the next acceleration phase.

There's detail in there.  How you connect the drive through from your legs to your hands matters, so that you don't lose length from the power cycle.  So does how quickly and smoothly you pick up the drive at the start, and how well you use the minor muscles in your shoulders and lats to get that last little bit, but the crux is there, in the long acceleration.

A half-good analogy is spinning a wheel on an upturned bike, with the flat of your hand.  Lots of little taps won't make it go as quick as a few really long fast ones.

My back's knackered now so I'm not touching rowing, but last year I would do 10K at 21-22 spm, maybe rising to 24 at the end.  I might do 2k nearer 28.  I have history, so I would use a lower rate than a cyclist convert to indoor rowing, but YSWIM.

In a real boat there are other things that come into play.  Not waving all that body mass around lets the shell ride smoothly over the surface, creates less wake and is generally more efficient.  On the other hand the slowdown between strokes is much more non-linear, so you need to maintain a higher stroke rate to catch the boat before it's lost too much speed.

Rowers spend a lot of time rehearsing a perfect stroke at low SPM so that it will hold together and stay smooth at 40 spm, but concept 2 is simpler.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: rower40 on April 06, 2011, 09:54:45 pm
I've spent a very enjoyable hour and a half going up and down the river this evening.  A bit windy - with the wind against the stream, causing 4"-high waves - that's practically unheard-of on this river.

Lots of onlookers in the park, the pub garden etc.  Yes I made it look easy.  Because it is. 8)
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: Manotea on April 06, 2011, 10:44:36 pm
I'm thinking of dropping my gym membership and joining a local rowing club as a 'land' member (for the time being at least). It would probably be cheaper and provide a better training environment. For training purposes all I need is access to Ergs and basic free weights. I do quite fancy learning to scull though, maybe a project for the winter.

The choice offered by the two nearest clubs (just round the corner from the gym as it happens) is a race oriented club and another club with a more recreational basis. I'll have to go along and have a chat and see what's what.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: Panoramix on April 07, 2011, 12:52:11 pm
I'm thinking of dropping my gym membership and joining a local rowing club as a 'land' member (for the time being at least). It would probably be cheaper and provide a better training environment. For training purposes all I need is access to Ergs and basic free weights. I do quite fancy learning to scull though, maybe a project for the winter.

The choice offered by the two nearest clubs (just round the corner from the gym as it happens) is a race oriented club and another club with a more recreational basis. I'll have to go along and have a chat and see what's what.

Good move but if you want to learn sculling do it in the spring or summer when the water is slower and warmer!
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: Manotea on April 07, 2011, 03:14:55 pm
Good point. Both clubs have 'learn to scull' sessions at Easter & August. For this year, the Easter sessions are too soon and I expect to be elsewhere in August, so getting on the water will likely be a next year thing.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: Manotea on April 11, 2011, 05:47:45 pm
Means nothing but just logged 500,000m, about 100km/month. Starting to feel upper body/absolute strength fading as the cycling km kicks in, a tadge earlier in the year than I expected. It's been a while since I've done any weight work.  I've been gradually losing weight through this period, nothing dramatic, say, ~1kg a month. May just need to eat more!
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: mike on April 11, 2011, 07:11:32 pm
I'm thinking of dropping my gym membership and joining a local rowing club as a 'land' member (for the time being at least). It would probably be cheaper and provide a better training environment. For training purposes all I need is access to Ergs and basic free weights. I do quite fancy learning to scull though, maybe a project for the winter.

The choice offered by the two nearest clubs (just round the corner from the gym as it happens) is a race oriented club and another club with a more recreational basis. I'll have to go along and have a chat and see what's what.

careful, sculling is addictive..  even without a 'learn to scull' course they might be able to figure something out for you, specially as you've got the base erg work. 
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: JJ on April 11, 2011, 09:09:29 pm
Dare I ask which are your local clubs?
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: Manotea on April 11, 2011, 10:25:21 pm
Lets talk offline.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: mike on April 11, 2011, 10:34:52 pm
nooo.. do it online then we can all see your decline into early morning 8s outings instead of audax.. :D
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: Manotea on April 11, 2011, 10:39:32 pm
nooo.. do it online then we can all see your decline into early morning 8s outings instead of audax.. :D
Rest assured, that's not going to happen. The big attraction of rowing is using an erg in a nice warm brightly lit gym whilst listening to Terry Pratchitt Discworld novels on my ipod. I've just finish #4, Mort. There are about another 50 to go...
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: Manotea on May 09, 2011, 12:22:50 pm
My ability on the Erg has fallen through the floor since the cycling distances have started to go up. I had my eye on doing a Marathon (42km) but can barely manage 10k now. Last couple of visits I settled for 2 slow 5km rows. I think it's a ride recovery thing. Anyway, it looks like the Marathon session will have to wait for winter now.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: simonp on May 09, 2011, 12:28:06 pm
What counts as slow?

I did a 20:12.0 5k last night.  I ran to the gym, and I was finding it pretty easy around 170W so I pushed the pace to over 200W as I went on.  I reckon if I tried in the middle of last week after the BC 400 then I'd have been very slow, but after a week I felt pretty fit.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: Manotea on May 09, 2011, 04:13:44 pm
I was finding it pretty hard keeping below 2:15/500m two days after a 200km. Eight weeks ago I was pushing 2:05/500m for 10km the day after a 200km.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: simonp on June 01, 2011, 07:00:34 pm
This thread have gone very quiet.

My excuse is a wrist injury.  What's yours?
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: Gus on June 01, 2011, 07:20:07 pm

I'm still rowing 2-3 times/week, but using the bike more now.

I'm now around 2,04/500m for 30min sessions, but I really need to get a better technique.

I'm going to break 300.000 meter mark tomorrow and try to row 70-100 km/ month during the summer.

But I'm going to use it more in the autumn as training/replacement for cross country skiing before the winter
season.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: Manotea on June 01, 2011, 07:20:26 pm
Istm that long distance riding and rowing don't really mix. Went thru a period where I could barely manage 5k which is a laugh as I did have my eye on a marathon. That will have to wait till the winter now. Im back up to a 44m/10km with last 2km sub 8min which isn't too bad. I want to keep this going for my C2 Rowdonneur 1mM badge. Sadly the season starts in May so the clock has reset. About 80km for May.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: Chris S on June 01, 2011, 10:30:24 pm
Istm that long distance riding and rowing don't really mix. Went thru a period where I could barely manage 5k which is a laugh as I did have my eye on a marathon. That will have to wait till the winter now. Im back up to a 44m/10km with last 2km sub 8min which isn't too bad. I want to keep this going for my C2 Rowdonneur 1mM badge. Sadly the season starts in May so the clock has reset. About 80km for May.

I agree completely. I have stopped rowing completely, in favour of audax.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: simonp on June 02, 2011, 01:25:53 pm
I'll be back as soon as my wrist allows.  Maybe this weekend.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: simonp on June 03, 2011, 09:01:45 pm
5000m 21:56.4 nice and steady.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: Manotea on June 19, 2011, 06:51:26 pm
Planned to ride today but after a poor nights sleep had a failure of motivation and elected to sleep on the couch for a couple of hours instead. To make amends I logged a 1:33 half marathon (21km) at the gym this afternoon, interestingly without the bum ache that usually fires up around 15km
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: Manotea on October 02, 2011, 03:18:53 pm
Had an outing in a double scull this afternoon with one of the coaches at my local rowing club. It's only taken me about 20 years to get involved. It was pretty brill though I've obviously got some work to do to get my technique sorted. Absolutely perfect conditions on the Thames today.

When I got home I typed the fateful words 'scull' and 'sale' into google. I pointed out some nice used boats to Mrs Manotea going cheap (~3K, not that I've got 3K in loose change at the moment, and FWIW my PBP bike cost nearer 300), 'Look, this one has aero riggers'. She said,and I quote, 'I can't stand the way you become interested in something and become any instant aficionado'. Moi?
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: Manotea on October 04, 2011, 11:15:22 pm
Did an easy C2 10k this evening, first for ages, circa 50min (have to distinguish now between C2 & On the water kms!).

The joy of being a so-so rider is in being intimidated by lean types who quite simply are faster than you will ever be.

The joy of being a so-so rower is being intimidated by young fit types who quite simply are just bigger then you are (and young and fit).
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: Chris S on October 17, 2011, 10:04:52 pm
Well.

The "off-season" approaches.

What plans have we for Team YACF this winter?
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: simonp on October 17, 2011, 10:54:02 pm
Oh. Umm. Yeah.

I expect I'll be too busy this winter to get much rowing in. But don't let me stop you.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: Feline on October 18, 2011, 12:21:27 am
Oh. Umm. Yeah.

I expect I'll be too busy this winter to get much rowing in. But don't let me stop you.

You could always row around on Cheddar reservoir  :D
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: Panoramix on October 18, 2011, 06:23:59 am
Oh. Umm. Yeah.

I expect I'll be too busy this winter to get much rowing in. But don't let me stop you.

You could always row around on Cheddar reservoir  :D

Or take up proper rowing with proper oars on proper boats (http://bristolgigclub.weebly.com/welcome.html), with none of this sliddy seats, carbon fibre non sense.  ;)
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: mike on October 18, 2011, 06:45:20 am
Oh. Umm. Yeah.

I expect I'll be too busy this winter to get much rowing in. But don't let me stop you.

You could always row around on Cheddar reservoir  :D

Or take up proper rowing with proper oars on proper boats (http://bristolgigclub.weebly.com/welcome.html), with none of this sliddy seats, carbon fibre non sense.  ;)

burn the heretic!!!!  http://www.bristolrowing.co.uk/learn2row.php
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: Panoramix on October 18, 2011, 09:19:37 am
Heresy is fun!

(http://bristolgigclub.weebly.com/uploads/6/5/9/7/6597427/9433290_orig.jpg)
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: Gus on November 01, 2011, 09:26:52 am

I've just started up again after injuries and bad excuses  :facepalm:
5000 m in 21.53 seems allright to me.
My goal is 300 km befor January 1.  ;D
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: Manotea on November 01, 2011, 05:47:40 pm
My goal is to make a million by Easter, make the top 25% for my age group on the C2 website for 2/5/10km, and complete a marathon (42km). I was around the 50% mark last year and complete several half marathon sessions, so it's within the realms of possibility. I'm around 250km from where I left off in the summer but really I'm starting from scratch, rowing fitness wise.

I may even get on the water!
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: Jakob on November 01, 2011, 06:12:20 pm
We did 500meter sprints last night. Think best time was a 1.28 (mine was a 1.40, done 1.37 before), but curious to see what you regular rowers can get on the 500 meter?.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: Jakob on November 01, 2011, 07:05:54 pm
Cool, thanks!
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: Chris S on January 03, 2012, 07:56:19 pm
BANG BANG BANG!!!

(bangs on door of YACF Dorm)

OI! You Lot! ANYONE AWAKE? Or are we all hibernating?

The Virtual Team Challenge has begun over at Concept II. Are we doing anything this year?
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: fboab on January 03, 2012, 08:10:56 pm
I've not logged any rowing there for yonks.
How does the team challenge thingamajig work?
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: Chris S on January 03, 2012, 08:16:50 pm
Well. You have to be a member of the YACF Virtual Team at Concept.

Our team needs to be entered into the Virtual Team Challenge (This needs to be done by the 15th Jan - others have done it in the past; probably SimonP).

We need to log our rowing exploits using our Concept II online logbooks, and Do Wondrous Things on our Concept IIs in the month of January.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: Manotea on January 03, 2012, 09:19:48 pm
2012 might be a fallow year for me on the bike so I've decided to log 1Mm by 1st may, starting yesterday.

25x4x10km. Easy.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: fboab on January 03, 2012, 10:25:12 pm
Jeepers. How on earth do you manage it?
I did my longest ever row today at 30 minutes 5716m.
It's so dull!

I'm taking the training very seriously and tbh, it's appalling how little fitness/strength I have for anything but mashing big gears on a bike.
O well. Onwards and upwards.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: Manotea on January 03, 2012, 10:38:31 pm
Audiobooks are your friend. I'm on my 30th Terry Pratchett, The Wee Free Men.

I'm around 47 minutes for 10km right now. I've got a lot of work to do to get back to where I was last year, circa (but not quite) 40 minutes.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: Manotea on January 03, 2012, 10:47:46 pm
Well. You have to be a member of the YACF Virtual Team at Concept.

Our team needs to be entered into the Virtual Team Challenge (This needs to be done by the 15th Jan - others have done it in the past; probably SimonP).

We need to log our rowing exploits using our Concept II online logbooks, and Do Wondrous Things on our Concept IIs in the month of January.

Paging Mr Proven, Paging Mr Proven....
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: simonp on January 03, 2012, 11:24:21 pm
Well. You have to be a member of the YACF Virtual Team at Concept.

Our team needs to be entered into the Virtual Team Challenge (This needs to be done by the 15th Jan - others have done it in the past; probably SimonP).

We need to log our rowing exploits using our Concept II online logbooks, and Do Wondrous Things on our Concept IIs in the month of January.

Paging Mr Proven, Paging Mr Proven....

Is done.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: simonp on January 04, 2012, 01:04:32 am
Jeepers. How on earth do you manage it?
I did my longest ever row today at 30 minutes 5716m.
It's so dull!

I'm taking the training very seriously and tbh, it's appalling how little fitness/strength I have for anything but mashing big gears on a bike.
O well. Onwards and upwards.

On the dullness thing, I listen to music to make it less tedious. A 5000m distance is a bit more manageable and the reward is the time taken reduces as you improve.

You’re probably over-using your arms and rowing at too high a stroke rate, just like everyone else who has posted similar messages over the past couple of years.  :P

I’ve not been on a rowing machine for ages, just too many other things going on. I’ve only had time for five days at work in the past month…
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: fboab on January 04, 2012, 10:00:58 am
Jeepers. How on earth do you manage it?
I did my longest ever row today at 30 minutes 5716m.
It's so dull!

I'm taking the training very seriously and tbh, it's appalling how little fitness/strength I have for anything but mashing big gears on a bike.
O well. Onwards and upwards.

On the dullness thing, I listen to music to make it less tedious. A 5000m distance is a bit more manageable and the reward is the time taken reduces as you improve.

You’re probably over-using your arms and rowing at too high a stroke rate, just like everyone else who has posted similar messages over the past couple of years.  :P

I’ve not been on a rowing machine for ages, just too many other things going on. I’ve only had time for five days at work in the past month…

5000m is just under 25 minutes for me.
I listen to music, but there's nothing to look at but the four walls. I get the same on the turbo- I just find it very dull.
My technique isn't that bad at all, (someone else has looked at it critically) I just have absolutely no upper body strength, what with being a very sedentary gurl. I can only lift Chris's 7.5kg kettle thingies about half a dozen times.
When I first started I had fairly crippling DOMS in my shoulders, back and abdomen. I just have no muscle tone/ strength there at all. Rowing still gives me blisters/callouses on my hands and NO I'M NOT GRIPPING THE BAR TOO HARD (I don't 'grip' it at all, it just sits there) but there's an assumption of a basic level of fitness because I'm a cyclist. I'm a big fat soft bundle of lard- I don't have any other fitness, at all, just whopping great leg muscles.
Back when I did a proper job milking cows, I was a different shape, and would probably have made a better rower.
I'm working on the principle that yes, I am an embarrassingly shit rower, but it's burning calories, building muscle, and using somewhat different muscles from cycling, and that's kind of the point of cross training. It's not like I'm ever likely to join a rowing club, race anyone, or need to row my way out of trouble, is it?

I only want it to be less dull so I can keep motivated to keep doing it.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: Chris S on January 04, 2012, 10:21:58 am
As far as technique is concerned, you can immediately tell if someone has bothered to learn one!

I got off the rower this morning (at the gym) as someone else was getting started on the next machine. Their technique was dreadful - all arms and thrashing. Consequently, he was working at 35spm for a 2:30 split and clearly working hard (in a frenetic, sweaty kind of way), whereas the display on the machine I'd just vacated showed 21spm for an average 2:14 split for 5K. I'm no rower - all I did was watch a You Tube video and experiment, and got loads of excellent advice here. Of course, you could argue that he was getting the better workout, but TBH he looked like he was going to injure himself.

Fboab used the same video as me - though I haven't seen her row to know if she's picked up any bad habits  ;)

Indoor rowing is dull. If you do it in an empty room at home, even more so. At least I got to watch some people on the treadmills this morning(while I listened to The Subtle Knife audiobook on my MP3 player). And I was still bored enough to give up after 5K rather than do my intended 10K.

Fboab uses a motivational website which channels MTFU soundbites. In response to complaints about dullness, I believe it would say something like - "Hey, you're inside nice and warm and dry - not outside getting wet or breaking bones on the ice. MTFU!"  ;D
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: Chris S on January 04, 2012, 11:08:04 am
Is done.

Thanks  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: liam_whippet on January 04, 2012, 07:53:45 pm
Thanks, SimonP.  :thumbsup:


I'm in.

5K. 22mins anna bit.

First time on the thing since, er, end of last Jan.   ;)

Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: essexian on January 26, 2012, 02:37:29 pm
May I ask a number of stupid questions please....

As a beginner to rowing machines, and not a fit one at that, what sort of targets should I be looking at and are there any websites (apart from this one), I should go to for tips? I am 50 and over 120kg. My cycling fitness is reasonable but I have no real upper body strength.

I have just been to my gym and did 150 stokes covering 1 200 metres in around 6 mins, not really pushing myself that hard (I did stop to shoo away one of my cats). How long should my stroke be? Is 8 metres per pull about right? And how do I use my legs more? (I seem to slide without a major effort). Finally, is 3mins to 3.30m about right for 1km as a stroke rate or should I aim for faster?



Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: rower40 on January 26, 2012, 02:57:34 pm
Concept II machines are the work of Stan.  But people seem to prefer them to actually getting out on the water and learning what makes a boat move.

The rowing standard unit is minutes/500m; the ergo's main display should be set to show this as the big figure in the middle.  It's often referred to as the "split time" - i.e. how long it would take you, at your current pace, to cover 1/4 of an Olympic Regatta course (2km).  2m30 (i.e. the split required to cover 1200m in 6mins) is doing well for a n00b of the physiology you describe.

Points to note:
1) Set the resistance to 3 out of 10.  High resistance leads to a heavy pick-up on the catch; heavy pick-up leads to back injury, back injury leads to anger, anger leads to hate, hate leads to the dark side...
2) Hands Body Slide.  I can't stress this enough.  On the way forward, hold the legs straight until your hands are beyond your knees.  Don't lunge at the catch.
3) At the catch, your shins should be vertical.  Too much body-lean means you can't get your bum up the slide enough.
4) Pivotting the body from the hips, it leans only 10 degrees forward of vertical to 10 degrees behind vertical.  Use a mirror to check what it looks like.
5) Twice as long on the way forward as on the way back.  I.e. don't rush UP the slide.  Rating 20 means 1 stroke every 3 seconds, of which 1 second is the power phase, and 2 seconds are the recovery.
6) Don't STOP at the end of the power phase.  Keep the hands moving in a circular motion, and throw them away from the body in preparation for the recovery up the slide.

Stroke rate is strokes-per-minute.  Top right figure on the Concept II display; should be somewhere between 20-30 strokes per min.  30 for a short sprint, 20 for a long burn.

(Sorry, a bit of a ramble there.  Without seeing video of your ergo technique, I can't really comment!  Get yourself to your local Rowing Club for some expert coaching.  DON'T assume someone working for a gym knows the first thing about how to use a rowing machine.)
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: Chris S on January 26, 2012, 03:13:50 pm
May I ask a number of stupid questions please....

As a beginner to rowing machines, and not a fit one at that, what sort of targets should I be looking at and are there any websites (apart from this one), I should go to for tips? I am 50 and over 120kg. My cycling fitness is reasonable but I have no real upper body strength.

I have just been to my gym and did 150 stokes covering 1 200 metres in around 6 mins, not really pushing myself that hard (I did stop to shoo away one of my cats). How long should my stroke be? Is 8 metres per pull about right? And how do I use my legs more? (I seem to slide without a major effort). Finally, is 3mins to 3.30m about right for 1km as a stroke rate or should I aim for faster?

Rower40's answer is feature rich.

I'll add my 1/2p which is a reference to where I posted a short fillum of me on my Concept II Work of Stan Machine.

https://yacf.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=23807.msg789325#msg789325

My technique seems largely in keeping with Rower40's suggestions.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: fboab on January 26, 2012, 09:40:19 pm
I'm younger, lighter, and weaker than you, essexian, and I do 28spm @ 2.20-2.30 split. Ish. For 5000m. I make a conscious effort to slow down the return, and overall it's faster.

But- I am rubbish! and- it's very dull, even with the audiobooks I'm counting down the minutes of tedious suffering.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: Marco Stefano on January 28, 2012, 05:10:51 pm
May I ask a number of stupid questions please....

As a beginner to rowing machines, and not a fit one at that, what sort of targets should I be looking at and are there any websites (apart from this one), I should go to for tips? I am 50 and over 120kg. My cycling fitness is reasonable but I have no real upper body strength.

I have just been to my gym and did 150 stokes covering 1 200 metres in around 6 mins, not really pushing myself that hard (I did stop to shoo away one of my cats). How long should my stroke be? Is 8 metres per pull about right? And how do I use my legs more? (I seem to slide without a major effort). Finally, is 3mins to 3.30m about right for 1km as a stroke rate or should I aim for faster?

Not that much upper body strength needed - rowing is a pushing sport & most of the power comes from leg drive. Follow rower40's good advice; I would add slow down a bit, i.e. less strokes per minute (22-26) & give yourself more time to think about the stroke, it will help in the long run. I won't comment on your split times as I don't know how fit you are, but start easy and build it up slowly over time as you get stronger.

Push with legs (squeeze power on, don't stomp), connect legs with handle through the trunk, open the back smoothly from about halfway through the stroke, finish with arms (think about steady acceleration of the handle throughout the stroke - this will feel like steady pressure in your fingers). Grip securely with wrists & backs of hands flat, but keep relaxed, particularly on the recovery (coming forward), you will need this as you get faster.

The UK Concept 2 website has a forum at  http://concept2.co.uk/forum/  with all sorts of stuff on it. Hope you enjoy it.

Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: essexian on January 30, 2012, 09:34:47 am
Many thanks for the advice and the links.

I tend, it seems, to you my arms more than I should during the pull: my legs don't seem to get that much of a work out compared to my arms. Perhaps I should change the angle of the seat so I am pushing a little more uphill (not sure if I can but perhaps a book under the legs might work?)

Oh, I have a York Magair 300 rower. I know its not as good as the Concept Machines but I brought it for £30 off ebay new from a bloke who had brought it, used it once and hated it.... got my treat mill and multigym the same way!

Thanks again.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: fboab on February 20, 2012, 11:53:50 am
My PB on the rower is improving every time at the moment.

I'm now above the 50th percentile1 (and, tbh, quite chuffed).

I think it's circuit training- doing wonders for my upper body strength, building it faster than the rowing alone does. I'm also focusing more on the breathing- out on the pull, and in on the return. I'm finding it less tedious, too, by being very mindful while I'm doing it.


1:For Heavyweight Over 40 wimmin.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: fboab on March 06, 2012, 01:42:14 pm
No, me neither, but I should get 3 x 5km in per week over that time.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: simonp on March 07, 2012, 11:22:05 am
Any action required from me?
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: simonp on March 07, 2012, 01:55:13 pm
I'll have a look later. I'm not going to be able to contribute any metres at all having neither the time nor a gym membership ATM.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: Feline on March 07, 2012, 01:58:50 pm
I'll have a look later. I'm not going to be able to contribute any metres at all having neither the time nor a gym membership ATM.

Your gym-inna-garage awaits you  ;)
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: simonp on March 07, 2012, 02:38:32 pm
I'll have a look later. I'm not going to be able to contribute any metres at all having neither the time nor a gym membership ATM.

Your gym-inna-garage awaits you  ;)

 :-*
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: Gus on April 12, 2012, 11:22:25 am
Been to the gym today and needed to do some cardio.
So I did my second row session since new year.
10.000 meters in 42.15,5 That ain't so bad for an overweight middleaged git.  :D

Seems my VO2MAX and general fitness have imroved.  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: Manotea on August 28, 2012, 09:48:19 am
About two weeks into GF12 (a.k.a., SFTW12). Bought myself a new C2 logcard and uploaded a weeks worth to the online Logbook last night. I'm currently about the 3% ranking for 5k & 10k, i.e., almost but not quite last. Eighteen months ago I was around the 75% mark (19:30/40:30) so there is lots of scope for improvement (I hope).
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: Manotea on August 28, 2012, 03:38:18 pm
Get Fit 2012 a.k.a Stepping From The Wreckage!

I missed the RowLympics Challenge but just in time for the PaRowLympics individual challenge, and hopefully will be getting my act together for the team Fall challenge starting Sept 15.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: fboab on August 28, 2012, 08:35:03 pm
hopefully will be getting my act together for the team Fall challenge starting Sept 15.

Hear that Mr Smith?

We too will be 'picking it up' in the autumn. I'm not convinced my wrist can take rowing, it's not all that fond of cycling, tbh, but I'm getting fed up with the long long list of stuff that I either can't do or hurts, so bollox to that, we'll give it a go.
Diaried, as they say.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: Chris S on August 29, 2012, 10:06:05 am
Better dust off my gym membership then, as my C2 is still on holihobs elsewhere.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: Manotea on September 10, 2012, 11:10:18 am
About 18 months back a 44min 10k was an easy warm up. This morning, 44:59 was an all out effort.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: fboab on September 10, 2012, 01:20:43 pm
Did 10 minutes this morning as I haven't touched it since pre-injury, and the wrist has an irritating tendency to be fine when you're doing something, and then ache like buggery for hours afterwards.

So far so good.  :thumbsup:

Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: Swarm_Catcher on September 13, 2012, 07:30:40 am
Get Fit 2012 a.k.a Stepping From The Wreckage!

I missed the RowLympics Challenge but just in time for the PaRowLympics individual challenge, and hopefully will be getting my act together for the team Fall challenge starting Sept 15.
Shall I enter yacf for the fall challenge? I will not be doing loads of meters, but could do with an incentive to get back in the gym.  Or have we entered already and I couldn't find it?
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: simonp on September 13, 2012, 08:22:39 am
I'll do the necessary later.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: Swarm_Catcher on September 13, 2012, 10:56:55 am
I'll do the necessary later.
Excellent, and thanks also to Howard.  I've entered the FTC.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: simonp on September 13, 2012, 11:10:08 am
I'll do the necessary later.
Excellent, and thanks also to Howard.  I've entered the FTC.

Done.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: fboab on September 13, 2012, 11:40:59 am
I've entered the FTC.

Ditto.

I'm aiming for 3 x 5000/week. Any more is just too tedious overdoing it.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: Swarm_Catcher on September 17, 2012, 01:31:37 pm
Yeah, my first meters are up.  I'm going to aim for 4 x 2000/week.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: Manotea on September 17, 2012, 01:50:04 pm
I've entered the FTC.

Ditto.

I'm aiming for 3 x 5000/week. Any more is just too tedious overdoing it.
Audio books are your friend. I've seen off all the Discworld & Sharpe books. Next up, Hornblower! Cast me adrift, Mr Christian! (er, sorry wrong, wrong author...)
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: fboab on September 17, 2012, 04:28:31 pm
I've entered the FTC.

Ditto.

I'm aiming for 3 x 5000/week. Any more is just too tedious overdoing it.
Audio books are your friend. I've seen off all the Discworld & Sharpe books. Next up, Hornblower! Cast me adrift, Mr Christian! (er, sorry wrong, wrong author...)
I tried with audiobooks1 and failed. At the moment I'm trying to be more Mindful- works at going faster AND making the time pass.

1I didn't get on with Pterry,
<burn the heretic
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: simonp on September 17, 2012, 10:26:11 pm
Been about a year, but looks like I might be able to get some time on a rowing machine in the near future, so I’ve put my name down for the FTC.  :thumbsup:

It’ll be a while before I get anywhere near 39:29 for 10,000m, but.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: Manotea on September 18, 2012, 08:30:22 am
The London Sightseer on Sunday has obviously tuckered me out; I could barely manage 2500 last night.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: Chris S on September 18, 2012, 12:59:21 pm
OK, I'm off to a spectacularly slow start - my slowest 10k for yonks.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: simonp on September 18, 2012, 02:06:17 pm
I'm trying to recruit Feline to the cause.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: Gus on September 18, 2012, 05:26:26 pm
I'll try to add some km too
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: Manotea on September 18, 2012, 08:50:42 pm
The London Sightseer on Sunday has obviously tuckered me out; I could barely manage 2500 last night.
Barely made it to 3k tonight. What's up with me?
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: Feline on September 18, 2012, 08:57:46 pm
I'm trying to recruit Feline to the cause.

Well, I am awaiting an induction on the equipment before I am actually allowed to use it  :D
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: Chris S on September 18, 2012, 09:25:21 pm
I'm trying to recruit Feline to the cause.

Well, I am awaiting an induction on the equipment before I am actually allowed to use it  :D

Pfft...! This is all you need to know:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eqVmMd7FdAA
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: fboab on September 18, 2012, 09:40:09 pm
The London Sightseer on Sunday has obviously tuckered me out; I could barely manage 2500 last night.
Barely made it to 3k tonight. What's up with me?
You've forgotten how to work through the pain?

It's going to be a while before I regain the dizzy heights of sub-25minute 5k.  :facepalm:
It's just getting used to it again, I think. My splits get faster for each 1000m.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: Feline on September 18, 2012, 09:53:37 pm
I'm trying to recruit Feline to the cause.

Well, I am awaiting an induction on the equipment before I am actually allowed to use it  :D

Pfft...! This is all you need to know:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eqVmMd7FdAA

Heh thanks  :thumbsup:
They won't let me inside the fitness suite until I have my induction on Friday though  :'(
There was a special offer on joining the gym this week so all the induction slots got booked up. I could annihilate myself at a spinning class or two while I wait though!
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: simonp on September 18, 2012, 09:53:52 pm
I like that video. There’s a lot more detail in that than in any gym induction where they will probably only spend a few minutes with the rowing machine. There’s a lot of good advice on this thread as well, though it might be hard to find.

I was looking at my times from the 2011 season yesterday. Just to scare motivate myself a bit.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: Chris S on September 18, 2012, 10:05:08 pm
There’s a lot of good advice on this thread as well...

Including a film of me rowing  :facepalm:

...though it might be hard to find.

Phew!
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: fboab on September 19, 2012, 08:27:43 pm
So. Blisters.
I've got blisters at the base of my fingers.
Will they just harden up to callouses as I do it more often? Am I just a delicate flower who needs to MTFU?
I'm not gripping, the bar just rests in my hand.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: Gus on September 19, 2012, 08:35:14 pm
They will harden up.
I used to get blisters if I started rowing 10 km without doing some 5 km or 30 min. in the weeks before.
I have even been using gloves from time to time.
So you are not the only delicate flower.  ;)
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: simonp on September 19, 2012, 08:36:49 pm
So. Blisters.
I've got blisters at the base of my fingers.
Will they just harden up to callouses as I do it more often? Am I just a delicate flower who needs to MTFU?
I'm not gripping, the bar just rests in my hand.

I think I get them every time I return after a break, but much less so now I do as you say and not grip the bar hard. The calluses do eventually form, IME, but I’ve had blisters under the calluses before. One thing I did was put Compeed foot blister patches on, they stick well. I tried zinc tape but I can never get it to stay put.

Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: Marco Stefano on September 19, 2012, 09:01:33 pm
So. Blisters.
I've got blisters at the base of my fingers.
Will they just harden up to callouses as I do it more often? Am I just a delicate flower who needs to MTFU?
I'm not gripping, the bar just rests in my hand.

They should harden. Are they on your palm at the base of the fingers, or actually on the fingers? I actually have the handle hooked in the first finger joints (i.e. the next one down from the knuckle) and have no problem with blisters (using the older wooden handle & foam grips).

Weirdly though, I have significantly more callouses on my right hand than my left, from ostensibly doing exactly the same thing with each hand when sculling (not using C2 grips). Newer C2 sculling grips give me blisters within 30 minutes, and I find the newer plastic C2 indoor rower handles uncomfortable as well; they are rather different to the old ones.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: fboab on September 19, 2012, 09:17:47 pm
I think they're already hardening. I'm not sure I want hard hands, being as I am a gurl and all.

They're mostly at the base of my fingers, a couple of fingers have them behind the joint. They're worse on the left hand- but I think that's just softer skin as I do so little with it, particularly over the last 6 months while it's been healing. On the plus side- I get no wrist pain from rowing, so much so that I can dispense with the support. This is a Big Deal- I can't ride a bike for longer than about 10 minutes without having some discomfort. It makes rowing quite appealing (and I never thought I'd say that!)
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: Feline on September 21, 2012, 06:47:26 pm
I had my gym induction today and had a go on the rowing machine. I was pretty rubbish, but have yet to get any blisters.
What do I need to register with for the challenge thingie?
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: mike on September 21, 2012, 06:50:20 pm
Weirdly though, I have significantly more callouses on my right hand than my left, from ostensibly doing exactly the same thing with each hand when sculling (not using C2 grips).

I used to get the same, I think the left grip is looser because it's slightly behind through the stroke, so it's held more in fingers than hand.

I miss sculling :(
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: simonp on September 21, 2012, 06:50:39 pm
I had my gym induction today and had a go on the rowing machine. I was pretty rubbish, but have yet to get any blisters.
What do I need to register with for the challenge thingie?

http://log.concept2.com/log_start.asp?p=/log.asp

Click on register on the left. Once you’ve done that, and are logged in, click teams, and join the yacf team. You will then also need to click on challenges to register for the challenge, which is the Fall Team Challenge at the moment.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: simonp on September 21, 2012, 06:53:37 pm
Ah well - never afraid to open myself to ridicule - so here we go, rate my technique.

FWIW - I was maintaining 22spm, and 2:10/500 split. This is the first time I've looked at my technique. I think I get too far forward, which in turn means my heels raise up and I push back off my toes.

Chris S Rowing (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k3WRUyNRj8I)

Looks pretty good to me. May be you can use a bit more your body to achieve a longer stroke.

Hah, found it!
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: Feline on September 21, 2012, 07:02:59 pm
I had my gym induction today and had a go on the rowing machine. I was pretty rubbish, but have yet to get any blisters.
What do I need to register with for the challenge thingie?

http://log.concept2.com/log_start.asp?p=/log.asp

Click on register on the left. Once you’ve done that, and are logged in, click teams, and join the yacf team. You will then also need to click on challenges to register for the challenge, which is the Fall Team Challenge at the moment.

I am ranked 13th out of 25 in my category  :o
Now I need to watch the technique video, because I couldn't quite figure out what was going on with my feet while I was rowing (they were tending to rock on the plate thingies).
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: fboab on September 21, 2012, 07:30:41 pm
Tonight I did a 'quick' 2500m so I achieved my goal of 15000/week.
I thought I sped up as I went, but tonight was weird, it was as if a switch was flicked after 9 minutes, and I suddenly went considersbly faster for no greater perceived effort. If I CBA I'll try a proper 10 minute warm up before I do my next 5k and see if I can sustain that faster pace.

I couldn't quite figure out what was going on with my feet while I was rowing (they were tending to rock on the plate thingies).
My legs are so short I need all the help I can get for stroke length. My feet rock. When I'm used to it I do 2:14/500m and I don't think that's bad for a short fat gurl, with no upper body strength.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: Mrs Pingu on September 21, 2012, 08:35:17 pm
Did my first rowing intervals tonight on advice from the fitnut bods. I think I am gonna be sore tomorrow ...
Didn't quite understand what the guy said about I should be sub 30 on the rests and around 45 on the work phase. No matter how hard I tried I could only get up to about 33....
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: mike on September 21, 2012, 08:42:45 pm
sorry, but with 'advice' like that, he's an idiot and doesnt understand rowing technique.

IMHO rests should be < 20, and 33 is perfect for the hard bits.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: Mrs Pingu on September 21, 2012, 09:30:33 pm
Could be I misunderstood him (was not at gym at the time) but i couldn't see anything else that number could refer to.
That's good though, I was wondering how it was possible!
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: simonp on September 22, 2012, 10:02:54 am
Lifting the heel a little is allowed. I do this, but I lack flexibility.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: Marco Stefano on September 22, 2012, 02:52:32 pm
Tonight I did a 'quick' 2500m so I achieved my goal of 15000/week.
I thought I sped up as I went, but tonight was weird, it was as if a switch was flicked after 9 minutes, and I suddenly went considersbly faster for no greater perceived effort. If I CBA I'll try a proper 10 minute warm up before I do my next 5k and see if I can sustain that faster pace.

I couldn't quite figure out what was going on with my feet while I was rowing (they were tending to rock on the plate thingies).
My legs are so short I need all the help I can get for stroke length. My feet rock. When I'm used to it I do 2:14/500m and I don't think that's bad for a short fat gurl, with no upper body strength.

Proper warm-up makes a massive difference; partly enzyme systems ready and capillaries beds opened, & partly becoming a little more stretched out & hence a slightly longer stroke.

As simonp says, heels can raise or not, depending on your flexibility & how high you set the clog-thingys on the machine. Too high and you can feel as if you never get all the way forwards (because you can't), and too low and you can over-compress & can put more strain on the lower back at the start of the power phase. Needs a bit of experimentation to find your best position.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: Feline on September 22, 2012, 08:33:07 pm
Speaking to simonp after the event I think I messed up massively in terms of technique. The speed thingy on the concept 2 was reading 35-38 so apparently I was going too fast to do something worthwhile! Next time I will try to reduce my rate and do something more epic. I need to work out what the different fields on the display mean, and I think when my new Polar heart rate band arrives that will give me something to control my efforts by.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: Chris S on September 24, 2012, 01:50:46 pm
Ah - today's session was better - 10k in 45:15 (PB for me is 44:02 - so nothing earth shattering).

I'd been forgetting to concentrate on the transition from the leg-drive in the first part of the stroke, to that last upper-body tug at the end of the stroke, when you're trying to row harder. When it feels like you are accelerating through the whole length of the stroke, it feels like you're doing more - and the split time certainly shows it.

I rowed a kind of saw-tooth in effort; 1000m of 2:18, followed by 500m of 2:12 and finally 500m of 2:05 or less before easing back off to 2:18. Varying the pace like this, and concentrating on maintaining a steady split, certainly makes the session pass by faster.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: fboab on September 24, 2012, 07:25:13 pm
If I CBA I'll try a proper 10 minute warm up before I do my next 5k and see if I can sustain that faster pace.
I think we can safely say that worked.
750m warm up, (I couldn't be arsed with a full 10 minutes) and jumped from 83rd to 42nd in my category.
I sensed a slight risk of barf in the first 500m, I had to slow down Just In Case.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: Gus on September 24, 2012, 07:34:27 pm
I feel I'm struggling with the Technique too, I don't feel I get anything out of my leg stride.
I row with all most the same amounts of watts if I keep my legs straight  ???
Are the output in watt comparable with other cardio machines or even my bike, if that's the
case I seems to loose around 65-100 watt with every stroke  :(
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: Feline on September 25, 2012, 03:33:56 pm
I bettered my time last night by going slower, but I overdid the warm up somewhat with a 50 minute spin & abs class!
Tonight I'm going to an aqua fit class so I will do the rowing first instead. Interestingly my heart rate was much lower doing the rowing than it was spinning. This may well mean I'm doing it wrong!
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: Chris S on September 25, 2012, 09:18:06 pm
This may well mean I'm doing it wrong!

Or possibly not. My heart rate on the rowing machine means something completely different to that when I'm cycling.

When I do 2x20 intervals on the bike, I maintain 165bpm for each work segment, or thereabouts. It feels tough, but sustainable for that length of time - just. If I tried that kind of heart rate on the rower, I would die.

When I'm balls-out going for it on the rower, the "about to puke" point is about 140bpm.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: simonp on September 25, 2012, 09:56:48 pm
I bettered my time last night by going slower, but I overdid the warm up somewhat with a 50 minute spin & abs class!
Tonight I'm going to an aqua fit class so I will do the rowing first instead. Interestingly my heart rate was much lower doing the rowing than it was spinning. This may well mean I'm doing it wrong!

You need to link your Concept II log to Facebook. :)
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: Feline on September 25, 2012, 10:20:20 pm
This may well mean I'm doing it wrong!

Or possibly not. My heart rate on the rowing machine means something completely different to that when I'm cycling.

When I do 2x20 intervals on the bike, I maintain 165bpm for each work segment, or thereabouts. It feels tough, but sustainable for that length of time - just. If I tried that kind of heart rate on the rower, I would die.

When I'm balls-out going for it on the rower, the "about to puke" point is about 140bpm.

Ah this is interesting. I've bought a bluetooth polar HR band because it works with all the gym equipment and my iPhone iCardio app.

I don't think I have configured my iCardio personal settings quite right because it had me at above my max HR for 15% of the 50 mins spinning and at VO2Max (HR 162-179) for 53%. My max HR was 186. http://my.digifit.com/site/share/workout/91d8eea1068511e297bb3f62a51bf2ea.html  Basically it thinks my max HR should be 179 based on age etc., but I know I can hit 190 on a double chevron bike climb. When I first started cycling and got my Garmin I managed a HR over 200 (but felt like I was near death at the time, couldn't stop because I knew I hadn't the energy to unclip).

On the rowing machine I didn't make it above 173bpm, although I was only doing 1000m so I guess it would have climbed if I had kept going into anaerobicness! http://my.digifit.com/site/share/workout/74c34d07068811e29f1d3f62a51bf2ea.html
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: Feline on September 25, 2012, 10:22:57 pm
I bettered my time last night by going slower, but I overdid the warm up somewhat with a 50 minute spin & abs class!
Tonight I'm going to an aqua fit class so I will do the rowing first instead. Interestingly my heart rate was much lower doing the rowing than it was spinning. This may well mean I'm doing it wrong!

You need to link your Concept II log to Facebook. :)

What, and tell everyone how rubbish I am?  ;D
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: Panoramix on September 25, 2012, 10:27:21 pm
I bettered my time last night by going slower, but I overdid the warm up somewhat with a 50 minute spin & abs class!
Tonight I'm going to an aqua fit class so I will do the rowing first instead. Interestingly my heart rate was much lower doing the rowing than it was spinning. This may well mean I'm doing it wrong!

IMHO You probably need to perfect your technique, you should be able to reach stupidly high bpm on the rowing machine. Legs, stomach muscles, shoulders and arms should all be sore after! At least this is how it used to work for me.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: Feline on September 25, 2012, 10:32:00 pm
I bettered my time last night by going slower, but I overdid the warm up somewhat with a 50 minute spin & abs class!
Tonight I'm going to an aqua fit class so I will do the rowing first instead. Interestingly my heart rate was much lower doing the rowing than it was spinning. This may well mean I'm doing it wrong!

IMHO You probably need to perfect your technique, you should be able to reach stupidly high bpm on the rowing machine. Legs, stomach muscles, shoulders and arms should all be sore after! At least this is how it used to work for me.

I have now watched the technique video so I should have more of a clue when I next try. Tonight everything aches, but that is probably a result of suddenly attending a heap of classes and gym sessions in the same week when my body hasn't yet got with the program!
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: Panoramix on September 25, 2012, 10:40:52 pm
A good tip is to try to get the speed as high as possible keeping the stroke rate very low (sub 20). It will force you to think about technique and concentrate on pushiing hard on the feet and having a strong back.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: fboab on September 26, 2012, 12:36:23 pm
It might help if you grunt, in a Monica Seles style-ee.

Or possibly that's just me.  :-[
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: Mrs Pingu on September 26, 2012, 07:40:03 pm
I tried a 2000m row tonight. Slowed down a bit at the pukey feeling and then went a bit mad in the end to just scrape below 10 mind at 9m 50.
That was after me trying to increase my running intervals by sprinting with the incline set at 4% and failing ( another fantastic piece of advice from the dude that visited my work on friday - not).
Tired nao :)
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: Mrs Pingu on September 26, 2012, 09:46:54 pm
Oh, I meant to ask, does anyone have any top tips about the toe straps? Both the machines i've used at the gym thus far have had straps that loosened themselves, and the bloke next to me seemed to be having the same issue.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: Gus on September 26, 2012, 09:54:30 pm
I have the same problem when using running  shoes, but not when I use shoes with no cushion.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: simonp on September 28, 2012, 08:52:06 pm
We went to the gym. After hitting my max HR in the spinning class (194bpm) and then doing a gym induction session we both did 2000m. I was 19s shy of my PB, but it’s the first time I’ve been on a rowing machine in a year - 7:45.6.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: Feline on September 28, 2012, 10:55:53 pm
I tried a 2000m for the first time tonight. It went quite well with faster 500m splits than I managed in the initial 2 sessions doing 1000m. Time was 9:15:1 which gives me a lot of room for improvement  ;D
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: thesloth on October 01, 2012, 10:51:33 pm
Went down to the garage to fire up my rower which has laid idle during the summer & found that the display on the monitor has packed up.
It's an old PM2. The digits are very faint only visible at an extreme angle.
A fair bit on the concept 2 forums about this. They say it's often caused by corrosion. Sure enough mine has allot of nasty stuff around the battery contacts.
Will look inside and see what I can achieve with my suspect skills. If I fail I guess its going to be:
Pro repair
New/used PM2
New/used PM3
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: thesloth on October 02, 2012, 10:31:52 am
If it's really dead (have you tried new batteries?), you can have my old PM2, for postage cost. I stumbled across it in my garage the other day, wrapped in an old jiffy bag. I replaced it with a secondhand PM3 a year or two ago.

Thank you, that's a very kind offer. I have tried new batteries and they don't help. I'll open mine up tonight to see if there are any obvious faults that I can rectify first. If I don't have any joy I'll PM you.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: thesloth on October 03, 2012, 08:10:08 am
Back in business! I had a look inside and the circuit board looked good. I clean one bit of gunk that looked like it was bridging two tracks. Looked like most of the heavy corrosion was around the battery contacts which I removed with a bit of vinegar.
All seems to be working now.
Tested it with a 2000m this morning. Now I just need to do some work on the engine.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: Feline on October 04, 2012, 11:10:19 am
I think I might have a bizarre rowing injury. This might fall into the TMI category, but I have a very painful sore area over my coxyx that I don't remember injuring. It is making sitting down painful. The only way I think it could have happened is while rowing. Has anyone else had a similar problem? I'm wondering if I should row in padded cycling shorts in future or take a cushion. It's not like I've tried any long distances yet either  :-[
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: mike on October 04, 2012, 11:24:57 am
not uncommon - fold a towel and sit on it or you can buy seat pads from godfrey (?), some people with bony arses need'em. 

we need a pic really, to judge bony-ness, then we can *really* help..... ;D
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: fboab on October 04, 2012, 11:43:31 am
I have no problems.
I have a LOT of cushioning.

These may be connected...
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: simonp on October 04, 2012, 12:39:43 pm
I think I might have a bizarre rowing injury. This might fall into the TMI category, but I have a very painful sore area over my coxyx that I don't remember injuring. It is making sitting down painful. The only way I think it could have happened is while rowing. Has anyone else had a similar problem? I'm wondering if I should row in padded cycling shorts in future or take a cushion. It's not like I've tried any long distances yet either  :-[

I think these are the seat pads Mike refers to, some gyms have them:

http://concept2.co.uk/shop/product/seat_pad_deluxe

Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: simonp on October 07, 2012, 06:27:41 pm
We both went for PBs on 2000m today, and both got them.

Given Feline’s still coughing from lurgy, and I’ve been feeling run down, we didn’t do too bad. Mine was a 7:20.3, which given that this is only my 4th go on an erg after a 12 month gap, I am quite surprised. It was bloody hard work though.

Interestingly my 5K times are still lagging by some way.
 
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: Gus on October 09, 2012, 09:59:57 am
Just started up on rowing again, using it as warmup for other execises.
Lowered my 30 min record  to 7222 meter, so in better shape than last year.
I hope to improve fitness over winter coming out stronger and faster than
I've been the last 10 years.  :)
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: Feline on October 16, 2012, 02:57:29 pm
I felt like I was going to die, rowing today (probably because I've not had much sleep in 48 hours working nights). Another new PB of 8:55 for 2000m. The concept 2 seat cushion is really good, it will be coming with me to the gym every time now.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: LancashireLarry on October 17, 2012, 12:58:30 pm
Well, I posted a search for rowing / cycling cross training and this link came up. I haven't read through all 48pages (yet) so not sure if what I am about to ask has come up yet...

I have got a Concept II rower I've had for a number of years (I used to do a lot of rowing at local Leisure Centre around 2000/2001) and bought one for home use but then got in to the Audax riding and have progressed with that since.

As I aim to do longer rides, up to 400km's at moment I am aware of issues with aching neck and back and believe that a stronger core / upper body will help there - something I know that the rower was very good at developing.

Can anyone recommend which way round to do a mixed session of turbo training / rowing - say for three nights a week with  about 90minutes available for each session.

Interesting to see mention of the Comic Relief million metre row - that was what got me hooked in 2000 - though I found out about it late on and ended up doing the million metres in 12weeks - it was before we had kids and I had nothing else better to do with my time - I used to pay £2 entry to the Leisure Centre and get my monies worth - up to 3.5 hours rowing (up to 50km sessions). I went from the heavyweight >75kg down in to the lightweight <75kg category about 4 weeks in to the rowing.

One of the issues I've had with getting going on the rowing is how disappointing my times are now, to be expected after many years not rowing and a few years older - I used to do the marathon (42195mts in rowing speak) in <2hr 45mins but was never that good at the shorter distances (probably why the Audax riding appeals and not time trialling as well!)

Anyway, I'll say thank you to some of you because reading through has definitely pushed me to get going again, stop focussing on what I could achieve previously and see what I can achieve now! Hopefully, I'll be back with some times soon - though I wont be rushing straight in to multi-hour sesssions just yet!
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: Feline on October 17, 2012, 09:39:02 pm
Well, I posted a search for rowing / cycling cross training and this link came up. I haven't read through all 48pages (yet) so not sure if what I am about to ask has come up yet...

I have got a Concept II rower I've had for a number of years (I used to do a lot of rowing at local Leisure Centre around 2000/2001) and bought one for home use but then got in to the Audax riding and have progressed with that since.

As I aim to do longer rides, up to 400km's at moment I am aware of issues with aching neck and back and believe that a stronger core / upper body will help there - something I know that the rower was very good at developing.

Can anyone recommend which way round to do a mixed session of turbo training / rowing - say for three nights a week with  about 90minutes available for each session.

Interesting to see mention of the Comic Relief million metre row - that was what got me hooked in 2000 - though I found out about it late on and ended up doing the million metres in 12weeks - it was before we had kids and I had nothing else better to do with my time - I used to pay £2 entry to the Leisure Centre and get my monies worth - up to 3.5 hours rowing (up to 50km sessions). I went from the heavyweight >75kg down in to the lightweight <75kg category about 4 weeks in to the rowing.

One of the issues I've had with getting going on the rowing is how disappointing my times are now, to be expected after many years not rowing and a few years older - I used to do the marathon (42195mts in rowing speak) in <2hr 45mins but was never that good at the shorter distances (probably why the Audax riding appeals and not time trialling as well!)

Anyway, I'll say thank you to some of you because reading through has definitely pushed me to get going again, stop focussing on what I could achieve previously and see what I can achieve now! Hopefully, I'll be back with some times soon - though I wont be rushing straight in to multi-hour sesssions just yet!

Sounds like your rowing achievements are very impressive Larry. I can't imagine doing it for hours, I find it pushes my heart rate much higher than running.

The problems you're having on your bike might be positional, if this were (lazy) me I would probably be getting a pro bike fit rather than rowing uber-miles!
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: LancashireLarry on October 18, 2012, 03:01:06 pm
Thank you for the feeback.

I've had a professional bike fit which has successfully removed the issues I had with my knees and has improved my lower back and neck to the point where it is not an acute problem.
I guess I am just aware that the cycling alone is not going to do much for core strength, though maybe the increased percentage of winter MTBing might help a little - the rowing should be of a general benefit and help with the back and neck.
I have no intention of building up to rowing marathon distances again - if I had that sort of time free now I would be out on the bike! The training sessions indoors are strictly for mid-week evenings through winter.

Mark (the LancashireLarry tag is simply a nickname I got when I came to work in Lincolnshire.)
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: thesloth on October 24, 2012, 06:04:31 pm
Stumbled across this on the Concept2 'site today: Workout of the day (http://www.concept2.com/indoor-rowers/training/wod).

Looks good. I've subscribed. Good to have a bit of inspiration as up to now I haven't been doing much aside from set distances.
Will definitely be a while before I'm able to move from the short workouts to the mediums, never mind the long ones.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: Bairn Again on October 26, 2012, 08:05:59 pm
back on an ergo for the first time in 12 months.  Previous best was 19m 10s for 5000m.

Am building back up starting at 2000m and adding 500m each time. Todays effort was 11m 42s for 3000m.

rowing is hard  :( 

 
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: Marco Stefano on October 27, 2012, 09:23:17 pm
Interesting to see mention of the Comic Relief million metre row - that was what got me hooked in 2000 - though I found out about it late on and ended up doing the million metres in 12weeks - it was before we had kids and I had nothing else better to do with my time - I used to pay £2 entry to the Leisure Centre and get my monies worth - up to 3.5 hours rowing (up to 50km sessions). I went from the heavyweight >75kg down in to the lightweight <75kg category about 4 weeks in to the rowing.

I did One Million Metres too; I developed a chest infection in the last month and remember sitting in the garage doing the last 25 km on Comic Relief night.

Concept 2 UK website has several set programmes and an interactive programme too, where you can dial in time to event & sessions per week, but it is geared to 2 km racing. Marathon programmes are also available.

I have lost my sculling mojo a bit at the moment, whereas Mrs Marco is on the machine every weekday morning for 30 mins.  :-[
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: DrMekon on October 28, 2012, 12:09:03 pm
My wife has just signed up to hire one - I suspect we'll just have it over the winter. I loathed them when I tried them at the gym, but in that it'll be in the house, I am sure I'll get sucked in.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: DrMekon on October 31, 2012, 05:05:06 pm
Well, it's arrived and I'll be setting it up tonight. I have watched the videos, and am planning to do 10 minutes practicing the form, do a test (http://concept2.co.uk/training/oneill_test), then just row on a low damper setting for 45 mins.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: Bairn Again on November 02, 2012, 04:11:00 pm
Getting back into this rowing lark now.

15.57 for 4000m this lunchtime.   Hopefully will be up to 5km before too long and can work on getting faster.

Ive noticed that my SPM is higher than it was when I was previously rowing regularly.  Im averaging about 28-30, I'm aiming to get this down to nearer 25.

Graeme.       
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: LancashireLarry on November 08, 2012, 07:33:54 am
I'll give the 'workout of the day' a go - though it is the combined rowing / cycling I want to improve on. I've started the rowing again, just for 20minutes to start with, followed by 40-60minutes on the turbo. The turbo session is definitely affected by the rowing previously - which I guess is to be expected (unless I went easier on the rowing!)

Managed a 7min 20sec as a first effort back at 2000mts so some way to go to get back to where I was a few years ago - not that I seriously expect that to happen without some serious effort.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: Panoramix on November 08, 2012, 08:43:32 am
Managed a 7min 20sec as a first effort back at 2000mts so some way to go to get back to where I was a few years ago - not that I seriously expect that to happen without some serious effort.

The torture machine got its claws on you!
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: Mrs Pingu on November 23, 2012, 10:12:43 am
swine! 9:00:.5 for 2000m. If those pesky foot straps hadn't kept coming loose I'd have done it  >:(
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: DrMekon on November 25, 2012, 10:00:48 pm
Just did 10,000m in 40.:18.9 . I could get rid of some of that 18secs by not having to remove my gloves halfway, and doing up my shorts so the lace doesn't get trapped in the seat bearing with 599m to go. Still, it'd take a consistent >1000kcal hour rate, and I'm not getting enough air in me with a "breath out on the drive, in on the recovery" pattern - felt like I was suffering for lack of air in the last 1500m.

That's my 8th go in maybe 10 years, so pleased with my progress, but loads to learn. Any instructional video recommendations welcome - ours is a hire machine, so no gym bunnies to copy.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: DrMekon on November 25, 2012, 10:04:05 pm
It's only taken me 24 years ::-) but I've finally rowed my 10 millionth metre. Last thursday's row left me needing 15249m, a distance just within reach for an hour. Although it seemed like a bit of a struggle from start to finish, knowing that I had that big target to knock off gave me the motivation to see it through and I smashed through with 15277m.

That is mega - how do you think of all that effort banked? Cake well spent, or health benefits accrued?
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: simonp on November 25, 2012, 11:26:24 pm
Just did 10,000m in 40.:18.9 . I could get rid of some of that 18secs by not having to remove my gloves halfway, and doing up my shorts so the lace doesn't get trapped in the seat bearing with 599m to go. Still, it'd take a consistent >1000kcal hour rate, and I'm not getting enough air in me with a "breath out on the drive, in on the recovery" pattern - felt like I was suffering for lack of air in the last 1500m.

That's my 8th go in maybe 10 years, so pleased with my progress, but loads to learn. Any instructional video recommendations welcome - ours is a hire machine, so no gym bunnies to copy.

I row at 25spm average on those sort of efforts, I breathe rather faster. Still ran out of air towards the end of my PB 10k.


 
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: trickedem on November 27, 2012, 08:40:59 am
It's only taken me 24 years ::-) but I've finally rowed my 10 millionth metre. Last thursday's row left me needing 15249m, a distance just within reach for an hour. Although it seemed like a bit of a struggle from start to finish, knowing that I had that big target to knock off gave me the motivation to see it through and I smashed through with 15277m.
Awesome effort. Well done

Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: simonp on January 08, 2013, 07:43:53 pm
Thanks for the heads-up, it might be enough to tempt me to the gym this weekend.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: thesloth on January 09, 2013, 09:59:40 am
I've fallen off the wagon (or out the boat) a bit. I'll try to get back on the case and make my contribution.
Managed a short effort this morning.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: fboab on January 18, 2013, 10:30:55 am
Back on the rower, back to the blisters.
It's quite annoying.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: fboab on March 18, 2013, 11:16:27 am
I don't suppose there's enough of us playing to do the Mad March Team Challenge (or whatever it's called)?

Into audax season properly now (or would be if the weather started cooperating), so I'm doubting it.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: simonp on March 18, 2013, 01:21:17 pm
I haven't had the time and/or energy to go to the gym once so far this year. Too many commute miles and work hours.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: simonp on March 19, 2013, 07:32:38 pm
Will do it when I get home.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: Feline on March 19, 2013, 07:34:22 pm
I will get back in the gym just as soon as I get these damn itchy stitches out. I think the rowing helped strengthen other bits of me that the cycling just didn't reach!
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: simonp on March 20, 2013, 02:43:12 pm
Right, we're in.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: thesloth on March 21, 2013, 09:11:51 am
Right, we're in.

...and so thesloth stirs from his long winter hibernation, climbs onto the machine and makes a small contribution to the cause.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: simonp on March 24, 2013, 04:56:05 pm
First rowing since October.

I really hate gyms with loud music blaring out.

Did 5,000m in 20:27.1 which is my fastest in the 2013 season. Now I have a blister.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: Feline on March 24, 2013, 10:26:36 pm
I've joined the challenge although I'm not in top form at the moment with my asthma still in winter mode. I intended to do 5000m today but ended up doing 2000 because I was losing the will to live. I will try to build up to it in the next couple of weeks.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: Manotea on April 01, 2013, 06:54:48 pm
Did a (relatively easy) 4m 1000 for a gym warm-up today, my first visit to 500km/2min land for ages.  Power is coming back but my CV is nowhere. Used to be otherway round. Doubtless the situation will return to normal once I get back on the bike more.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: Chris S on April 15, 2013, 12:46:28 pm
Well well well. Next time you're banging out a sub 1:40 split, spare a thought for poor old Andrew Marr (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-22142291).

Rowing is almost incidental to this really, point was he was thrashing himself and had a TIA, but you can't blame the chap for having a less than +ve view on rowing now.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: simonp on April 15, 2013, 12:55:24 pm
I don't think the risk of high intensity is rowing machine specific. I reckon I work at least as hard in a spinning class, and what about HIIT?
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: fboab on April 17, 2013, 10:11:37 am
I don't think I've ever managed even a sub 2:00 split for longer than 5 strokes before heading rapidly for heart attack territory.

Anyway, another PB this morning. I might be growing some muscles  :o
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: fboab on May 03, 2013, 02:26:47 pm
It's the new concept 2 year season and, check me out...

I'm No1OldFatBird in the UK.  :thumbsup:

Out of 2
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: simonp on September 04, 2013, 10:00:25 pm
First effort of the season last night.  :-[

I am currently a heavyweight, which is new. I took it fairly easy, 5km in 21:30ish. Probably won’t get a chance again before next week.

Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: simonp on September 11, 2013, 04:39:13 pm
#2

I've signed team YACF up for the Fall Team Challenge which starts on the 15th (Sunday).

Get signed up and get rowing!
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: Feline on September 11, 2013, 11:37:55 pm
#2

I've signed team YACF up for the Fall Team Challenge which starts on the 15th (Sunday).

Get signed up and get rowing!

I will sign up, but Im a bit shit  ;D

Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: fboab on September 12, 2013, 09:38:33 am
I've been out of the gym for the last few weeks, I was going to wait till we'd got the end of the season out the way.
How long does the fall challenge last?
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: simonp on September 12, 2013, 05:38:19 pm
Sept 15th - Oct 15th.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: Gus on September 14, 2013, 05:41:30 pm
I'm in too, haven't been rowing since december, but I'll give it a go.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: fboab on September 18, 2013, 03:16:39 pm
I added to it this morning in my first row for about 6 weeks. I do about a 10 minute warm up on the rower and then half an hour of lifting.

One of the reasons I stopped was the nagging back pain that's been dogging me. It's still there. It's costing me 5-10 secs/500m compared to when it wasn't sore, and probably 5kg lifting on the machines. And makes me not want to go to the gym.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: simonp on September 18, 2013, 07:23:56 pm
I had a bit of a cold at the weekend, and still felt a bit tired yesterday, so didn’t do anything. I should be able to get some metres in later this week, though.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: fboab on September 27, 2013, 09:11:45 am
I see we're all really committed.

(http://i952.photobucket.com/albums/ae7/fboab/Capture-1.jpg)

 ;D
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: Swarm_Catcher on October 02, 2013, 05:58:00 pm
I've scored! Hope it will be like buses.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: simonp on October 02, 2013, 06:03:58 pm
I lead by example.  ::-)
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: Gus on October 02, 2013, 06:22:46 pm
I lead by example.  ::-)

And I'm right behind you  :thumbsup: :facepalm:
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: fboab on October 04, 2013, 08:58:31 am
In the kind of weird logic that only makes sense when you're tired, I couldn't face weights last Friday, so rowed 5k, and couldn't face squats this morning, so warmed up with a few hundred metres then TTd 2000m. Despite pausing to reduce the damper I managed a new PB.

I'm quite stunned as I've been feeling completely shit this week (low-carb 'flu', the anticlimactic end of a long hard season, generally a bit 'meh') and my on bike 'performance' has been tears-inducingly crap.

Couldn't stand afterwards.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: lastant on October 28, 2013, 09:57:07 pm
New job means a move of offices, to one with a gym in the basement...a ridiculously quiet gym by the sounds of things, although one featuring three Concept 2s all equipped with PM3 monitors. Result, a perfect mid/post-work 'break' from the desk.

Log card and card reader purchased this evening for a combined £12.00, Pete's Plan (beginner) studied. Intending to build up to a point where 5,000m doesn't kill me and really give this a go...thinking of doing a couple of weeks of 2,000m+ sessions three times a week and then going into it.

Now to read this thread in its entirety again!
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: Charlie Boy on December 07, 2013, 02:16:20 pm
Is this an open team? I've got rower in the attic that has just been dusted down after a few years and have recently put in a few sessions.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: simonp on December 07, 2013, 03:38:40 pm
Is this an open team? I've got rower in the attic that has just been dusted down after a few years and have recently put in a few sessions.

Yes.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: Chris S on January 05, 2014, 06:42:07 pm
Any interest in the 2014 Virtual Team Challenge?

I've dusted off the C2 and oiled the chain - so could probably do with some motivation.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: simonp on January 05, 2014, 08:02:19 pm
I'll sign the team up for it.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: Feline on January 06, 2014, 01:15:50 am
I'm not sure if I'm too fat to row ATM  ;D
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: Chris S on January 06, 2014, 09:29:18 am
I'm not sure if I'm too fat to row ATM  ;D

My Christmas food baby is definitely In The Way  ::-).
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: simonp on January 06, 2014, 11:11:58 am
We're in.

Remember to join the challenge by the 15th if you want to participate.

http://log.concept2.com/log_team.asp
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: TimC on January 06, 2014, 11:21:45 am
I'm definitely too fat, but I usually have access to a gym with a rower, so I'm in.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: fboab on January 06, 2014, 11:24:08 am
I'm not sure if I'm too fat to row ATM  ;D

Amazingly enough I manage despite the lard.

How much weight have you put on over Christmas?
 :o
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: Feline on January 06, 2014, 05:19:41 pm
I'm not sure if I'm too fat to row ATM  ;D

Amazingly enough I manage despite the lard.

How much weight have you put on over Christmas?
 :o

I'm currently running 8kg heavier than I was in July  :-X
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: mike on January 06, 2014, 09:59:48 pm
i'm in - am almost exactly the same amount heavier as you are, Feline!

I promise to actually do some rowing this year...
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: fboab on January 07, 2014, 08:30:01 am
No rowing (and no gym) since 13th December, apparently, so I'm fairly happy with my 21:54 5k this morning. (5 sec over my PB)

Less happy with the inevitable blisters. O well.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: Gus on January 07, 2014, 07:00:44 pm
I'll try  again, I just hope to make it to the gym this time  ::-)
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: Gus on January 09, 2014, 11:20:41 am
first 2k in more than a year 8,19   :) not good but I'n rowing again
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: fboab on January 13, 2014, 11:42:17 am
Another 5k, more blisters.

My girly hands have softened right up over Christmas. Today I have the delight of a broken blister under a callous oozing slightly every time I move the middle finger of my left hand.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: mike on January 13, 2014, 11:48:46 am
ouch!  MrsMike was delighted when I stopped rowing, my hands were permanently in a complete mess...

shouldn't happen so much on the ergo though - how tight are you gripping the handle?  Some people erg with their whole hand (incl. the thumb) on top of the handle, to stop you squeezing it too tight, although I was never comfortable like that..  worth a go?
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: Chris S on January 13, 2014, 01:05:56 pm
That's what I do - row with my fingers rather than my whole hand.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: fboab on January 13, 2014, 02:28:57 pm
Some people erg with their whole hand (incl. the thumb) on top of the handle, to stop you squeezing it too tight, although I was never comfortable like that..  worth a go?
I tried that today, as my hands were already a bit tender.
 
:-\

I reckon it's the 5ks. Because I am a delicate Lay-dee, my soft delicate gentle hands can only cope with a km or two.

Or they'll harden up in time.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: mike on January 15, 2014, 07:08:30 pm
40 minutes tonight, 2 x 20 minute with a brief pause when I had an existential crisis mid-way through the 2nd 20.

Still slow as hell but please dont tell anyone; i actually quite enjoyed it...
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: Chris S on January 16, 2014, 09:11:49 am
Regarding blisters - and this is going to be a bit ming, so brace yourselves.

I've noticed my hands do get sore when using a rower that doesn't have a scrupulously clean handle. When you get a build-up of sweat residue (see - I did warn you) the handle becomes really quite sticky, especially when the sweat off your own hands makes it damp and redissolves all that goo. This stickiness then seems to exaggerate the effect that leads to blisters.

I've taken to applying my OCD levels of cleaning to the handle on my C2, and now the handle seems freer to move around in my hand as I'm rowing, rather than drag and stick to my skin.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: simonp on January 21, 2014, 10:51:10 pm
Finally managed to get to the gym and do a 5K today.

Not my slowest of the season so that’s acceptable. I might get a few more in before the end of the month.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: simonp on January 26, 2014, 07:43:28 pm
Still a heavyweight which isn’t so good for my ranking. My 10,000m was hard work today but still outside the top half for heavyweight 40-49 year old males.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: simonp on January 27, 2014, 01:08:28 pm
A couple of 5Ks didn’t give me any blisters but my middle fingers are slightly blistered on both hands after a 10K.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: fboab on January 27, 2014, 02:14:09 pm
No blisters for my 5k this morning either  :thumbsup:

My hands feel like they'd be great for a child with eczema1.


1: My smalls always preferred the manual working parent to do the cream application because his hard macho hands were rough and gave itch relief.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: CrazyEnglishTriathlete on January 29, 2014, 08:14:32 pm
Still a heavyweight which isn’t so good for my ranking. My 10,000m was hard work today but still outside the top half for heavyweight 40-49 year old males.

Where do you find this benchmark data?   I'd be keen to benchmark myself (although my benchmark is about to get easier as I will move from the 40 - 49 to the 50 - 59 category this year). 

Did set my PB for 1 hour (which was expected as I'd only rowed for an hour once before) tonight, but still 189m short of the winter target.  That's only 1.2 seconds per 500m split I keep telling myself.

Regards

Colin
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: CrazyEnglishTriathlete on January 29, 2014, 08:59:56 pm
Where do you find this benchmark data?

Online World Rankings (http://log.concept2.com/rankings.asp)

Thanx.  And CET name was available.   ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: CrazyEnglishTriathlete on January 29, 2014, 10:33:46 pm
Don't get problems with blisters on my hands, but do get problems with my right heel rubbing when rowing.  Because I've been progressively working up the distance, have managed to grow a callous rather than get a blister.

Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: simonp on February 02, 2014, 05:13:04 pm
I was doing ok until I did 3x10,000m last week and managed to blister first my middle fingers then after taping those up both palms.

Won’t be rowing for a few days until they heal a bit. The Valentines challenge doesn’t start ’til the 9th so that’s fine.

Meanwhile, I did some cycling today.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: Feline on February 03, 2014, 11:12:45 am
Maybe I should register for the valentines challenge. I forgot to do it by the cut off date for the last one so all 2500m that I actually rowed in a month didn't count  :-[

Rowing seems to push my CV reserves much further than other types of exercise do so my currently dire asthma leaves me trying to die after only 500m or so. I keep setting the machine for 2000m and having to bail before I make it to the end because I can't breathe  >:(
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: CrazyEnglishTriathlete on February 04, 2014, 08:21:46 pm
Managed to fit in a Tabata session on the rowing machine tonight.  Its basically 10 minutes warm up followed by (in my case) 4 minutes which go:

20 seconds flat out (getting the 500m split into the 1:30s) 20 seconds recovery at normal long distance pace (under 2:00 split) repeat x 6.  Then collapse in a heap.

Seems simple.  Well the only simple bit is collapsing in a heap.  The hard bit is doing that after the 6th rep and not after the 4th.  it is supposed to be the best way to improve aerobic fitness and therefore my ability to climb the Alps at the end of June.  We'll see.  If I master 6 reps then it just gets extend to 8 reps which lasts the giddy amount of 5 minutes and 20 seconds.  La la la  :sick:
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: simonp on February 04, 2014, 08:24:43 pm
I did Tabata intervals in a martial arts class. Injured both shoulders and I was riding the Elenith a few days later.

 :facepalm:
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: CrazyEnglishTriathlete on February 05, 2014, 07:40:02 pm
Set out to do a PB for half hour today.  Was stressed because of cramped train journey home so set off too fast.  Bad news was I was going to burn out before half hour   :(    Good news, hung on for a new PB by 6.5 seconds for the 5000m  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: simonp on February 06, 2014, 10:11:38 pm
Blisters sufficiently healed to go again.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: Feline on February 07, 2014, 01:25:23 am
I actually managed the 2000m I set the Concept 2 for tonight, all be it much slower than my PB :thumbsup:

This was aided by sucking hard on my Salbutamol inhaler just before starting. Simon wondered if he should try some too when he saw me do it  ;D
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: toontra on February 07, 2014, 09:40:16 pm
After seeing this thread I tried the Concept2 in the gym today and really liked it!  I'd never thought of using a rower for some reason but it made a nice change from the endless intervals on the cycle trainer.

I found that I could really concentrate on the whole-body workout thing, and try and be conscious of keeping a decent technique.  Managed 4000m in just under 20 mins and felt suitably OK to do my normal cycle intervals straight after.

I can see how this could be addictive.  Damn - seems I'm about to extend my already ridiculous 3 1/2 hour gym sessions  ;D
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: fboab on February 10, 2014, 08:41:59 am
Catching up on logging this morning... turns out Friday's 2k was a PB. I thought I'd been loads quicker than that before, but no, I took 10 seconds off!
If I'd realised I was proper racing I'd've really gone for it!
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: fboab on March 07, 2014, 07:52:24 am
..and slashed 6 seconds off my 1k time this morning...

I know it's nothing for you blokes but for a short-arse girl (no leverage) sub 2 minute splits are going some. I'm above the 75th percentile now.  :smug:

(It's a shame none of this gym stuff seems to be transferring into speed-on-the-bike. O well.)
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: CrazyEnglishTriathlete on March 07, 2014, 09:08:28 am
wey to go fboab

I don't find there's any immediate correlation between gym work and cycle speed.  But months later, in the summer, when I get to the top of hill I think 'somethings different now' because the work on the core and leg-back connectivity.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: simonp on March 07, 2014, 10:44:46 am
I'm under the lightweight threshold again. But haven't been to the gym for weeks due to lurgy and being too busy.

There's another team challenge coming up from the 15th, don't forget to sign up.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: mike on June 29, 2014, 08:14:42 pm
I went actual rowing on saturday, it was my first time in a boat in 10 years and once I'd got acclimatised to how quickly everything happens (you're all at hands away/bodies over?  already? shit!! ) I bloody loved it...   We had about 10 seconds out of a 90 minute outing of that lovely feeling of flying with the water burbling past the hull, reaching out for the catch, dropping the blade in, getting hold and feeling the boat accelerate and it was almost orgasmic. 

the other 89 minutes, 50 seconds were all a bit average but that didnt matter!! I'd had that 10 seconds and that's all I was after.

I'll be back for more on wednesday.  And saturday.

[yes, I have blisters and my quads & hip flexors are incredibly sore, but that's all part of the fun, innit?]

Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: fboab on August 13, 2014, 09:56:41 am
Back at the gym, back on the rower, back to the blisters.

*sigh*
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: simonp on August 15, 2014, 02:40:38 pm
I thought I had got my blisters sorted this time, they formed into calluses without bursting.

Then I did a 2k warm up followed by a 30 minute effort last night and I have nice fat blisters again. Looks like at least one of them is going to need a few days before it'll drain.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: Chris S on August 15, 2014, 09:03:22 pm
I thought I had got my blisters sorted this time, they formed into calluses without bursting.

Then I did a 2k warm up followed by a 30 minute effort last night and I have nice fat blisters again. Looks like at least one of them is going to need a few days before it'll drain.

Surely Feline has some nice sharp, pointy gadgets that can help with that?  ;D
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: simonp on August 18, 2014, 03:36:27 pm
I thought I had got my blisters sorted this time, they formed into calluses without bursting.

Then I did a 2k warm up followed by a 30 minute effort last night and I have nice fat blisters again. Looks like at least one of them is going to need a few days before it'll drain.

Surely Feline has some nice sharp, pointy gadgets that can help with that?  ;D

 :o  :hand:

I let them be, and they held up to 2k warm-up and 5k season's PB to date this lunchtime.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: simonp on August 21, 2014, 11:09:34 am
Logging some good kilometres there SimonP, I can see I won't have it all my own way at the top of the YACF leaderboard this year!

Which leads me to notice that the Fall Team Challenge starts soon. Everyone get signed up.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: simonp on August 29, 2014, 12:36:14 am
Tried a harder on a 2K this evening. My third-fastest time ever. 7s off my PB.

Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: fboab on August 29, 2014, 10:21:24 am
I'm almost a full minute down on mine at the moment. More weight lifting required. Early days.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: mike on August 29, 2014, 10:39:13 am
I did a test last week and my 2k time is about a minute down on my best ever 10 years ago, I'm aiming to halve the gap by christmas.  Lots of ergs to do between now and then...

am loving being back on the river too, I've been doing some sculling and I cant believe I left it so long before getting back in a boat.


[remembers to log stuff onto the c2 site] [edited to add - have updated log, attached myself to the YACF team, sorry Simon..]

Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: Marco Stefano on August 29, 2014, 12:25:50 pm
Glad you are enjoying being back in a boat, Mike.

I have signed up; just need to get on the thing (much more difficult than actually erging).
Have Speedcoach, can measure metres and speed on the water; does that count as well? They'll never know... :demon:
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: mike on August 29, 2014, 01:02:08 pm
it's fine - you can record on-water meters as well as ergo time. I dont because iCBA...
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: closetleftie on August 30, 2014, 01:36:47 pm
Some advice from the collective rowers please:

If a man (a) had a birthday coming up, (b) has rowed a bit in the gym before and liked it, and (c) gave gym membership up as being expensive if you're mostly cycle commuting anyway and (d) fancied a bit of variety, but said man wasn't good at winter/ice commuting, which rowing machine would his missus get him so he doesn't become a blimp over winter again?

Durability:price ratio more important than absolute price, and whizzy features probably not important at all. Think Ribble rather than Pinarello.

Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: Feline on August 30, 2014, 08:56:14 pm
Some advice from the collective rowers please:

If a man (a) had a birthday coming up, (b) has rowed a bit in the gym before and liked it, and (c) gave gym membership up as being expensive if you're mostly cycle commuting anyway and (d) fancied a bit of variety, but said man wasn't good at winter/ice commuting, which rowing machine would his missus get him so he doesn't become a blimp over winter again?

Durability:price ratio more important than absolute price, and whizzy features probably not important at all. Think Ribble rather than Pinarello.

I'm a crap rower really so don't listen to me. But if I had to give up my gym membership tomorrow I would get this:
http://www.powerhouse-fitness.co.uk/concept-2-indoor-rower-model-d-with-pm3-monitor.php
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: Chris S on August 30, 2014, 09:44:43 pm
Some advice from the collective rowers please:

If a man (a) had a birthday coming up, (b) has rowed a bit in the gym before and liked it, and (c) gave gym membership up as being expensive if you're mostly cycle commuting anyway and (d) fancied a bit of variety, but said man wasn't good at winter/ice commuting, which rowing machine would his missus get him so he doesn't become a blimp over winter again?

Durability:price ratio more important than absolute price, and whizzy features probably not important at all. Think Ribble rather than Pinarello.

I'm a crap rower really so don't listen to me. But if I had to give up my gym membership tomorrow I would get this:
http://www.powerhouse-fitness.co.uk/concept-2-indoor-rower-model-d-with-pm3-monitor.php

I'm fairly sure I paid a lot less for mine. Also - they take up quite a lot of space!

But having a rower is quite cool  :thumbsup:.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: mike on August 31, 2014, 06:49:55 pm
+1 for a concept2, mines also a model C but i've still got the PM2 which works just fine*.  They hold their value too, I paid 400 quid for it about 10 years ago and they're still making about the same on ebay.



(* although you cant run rowpro on it, but that's windows only anyway...)
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: Chris S on August 31, 2014, 08:17:53 pm
Do you guys get your C2s serviced at all? Is there some basic maintenance I should be doing?
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: mike on August 31, 2014, 08:25:54 pm
short answer - no, I dont.  I just wipe the chain occasionally. 

i replaced the bungee cord once because it'd lost all bounce, it made a massive difference to the feel of it, but didnt improve my scores at all...
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: mike on September 01, 2014, 05:56:05 pm
changing the cord isnt as bad as it looks.. took about 15 minutes with minimal swearing!
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: Marco Stefano on September 05, 2014, 10:26:20 pm
Similarly with my Model C, chain oiling (I still have some clear oil in an original bottle, so not that often), seat rollers replaced as bearings not sold separately (clacking noise like Oranj's - they looked fine but the noise drove me mad), regular roller & track wiping,  fan housing hoovering, occasional grip scrubbing.

Every part available, and exploded diagrams & instructions on the web. Properly rebuildable; non-metric (US) fastenings are a bit of a pain, though. If I bought one now, I would want a dynamic one (or a Rowperfect) to get nearer to on-water feel, actions & timing.

Whenever I see a WaterRower I keep thinking of Legionella...
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: Marco Stefano on September 10, 2014, 09:08:15 pm
Oranj, is there a way to view other team members' exploits, apart from the challenges (all at 0m at the moment, obviously)? Just curious.

Over the last week I have done three 10km 21spm drones. I have to try and visualize myself sculling back upstream to prevent second half 'oh sod this' moments.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: simonp on September 11, 2014, 12:18:21 pm
Here. (http://log.concept2.com/challenge/univDetail2015.asp?univ=YACF+-+Yet+Another+Cycling+Forum)

It's different to the challenge team - you need to do this from your profile page to be seen in this list. (Under 'Affiliation')



Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: Marco Stefano on September 12, 2014, 04:53:52 pm
Here. (http://log.concept2.com/challenge/univDetail2015.asp?univ=YACF+-+Yet+Another+Cycling+Forum)

It's different to the challenge team - you need to do this from your profile page to be seen in this list. (Under 'Affiliation')

Ta simonp. I hope to make some contribution at least. Evening water rowing is just about finished here, so time to move weekday sessions inside.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: simonp on September 12, 2014, 08:33:51 pm
 :thumbsup:

Did another season's PB 5km yesterday. Still 30s off my all time best. Feels like a big gap but it did back then too.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: simonp on September 17, 2014, 10:00:24 am
2K easy, 2K hard before my weights last night, then 5K easy.

2K still 5s off my PB.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: fboab on September 17, 2014, 01:41:23 pm
The standard of erging in my gym is generally shite- guys thrashing away at 30spm for 2:10 splits, but this morning I was sat by a(n older) guy warming up at 22spm/2:05.
He asked (as I cooled down panting) if I minded him commenting on my technique, I said not at all, that I was aware my stroke rate is too high but I really struggle to keep it below 25. He said no, but he'd noticed I'm flicking my wrists on the recoil, and if I concentrate on keeping my arms straight I'd gain 5 seconds for no extra effort. I thanked him but was too knackered after 5k to give it a go. He carried on effortlessly, didn't falter in his rhythm as he spoke to me, and wasn't even vaguely out of breath. I have had aching forearms, so maybe that's why.

5k (first time this year, I think, never mind this season) was almost 2 minutes down on last season's best.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: mike on September 17, 2014, 01:52:03 pm
squad sprints last night, (500m x 8 with 2 mins rest between) the first couple werent too bad but the last few were horrid, then I nearly blacked out & fell over when I stood up.  Lovely.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: Feline on September 18, 2014, 12:47:38 am
The Concept2 app on my phone doesn't seem to be uploading to the site as it should this month  >:(
Not that I am doing anything epic, I'm incredibly unfit after nearly 3 months of injury. I managed 2k this evening though after having to bail at only 1k due to being near-death a few times last week. It hurts my duff shoulder but the physio assures me I won't be doing it actual damage by trying to do stuff now.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: simonp on September 18, 2014, 12:55:23 am
Just passed 200km for the season.  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: Feline on September 18, 2014, 05:48:47 pm
Just passed 200km for the season.  :thumbsup:

Is there a rowing equivalent to audax?
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: simonp on September 18, 2014, 06:09:59 pm
Just passed 200km for the season.  :thumbsup:

Is there a rowing equivalent to audax?

Something like this?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boston_Rowing_Marathon
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: LittleWheelsandBig on September 18, 2014, 06:55:16 pm
'Proper' Audax (rather than randonneuring) includes several activities, not just cycling. Walking, skiing, swimming and kayaking are the others, but not rowing.

http://www.audax-uaf.com/
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: fboab on September 19, 2014, 12:56:38 pm
Old guy was right- 3 secs faster splits for no increase in perceived effort.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: mike on September 19, 2014, 01:35:40 pm
Just passed 200km for the season.  :thumbsup:

Is there a rowing equivalent to audax?

Something like this?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boston_Rowing_Marathon


flashback moment.. done it twice, once in an eight on a baking hot day (misery) and once in a quad (much better, still never doing it again)
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: Marco Stefano on September 19, 2014, 08:48:02 pm
Just passed 200km for the season.  :thumbsup:

Is there a rowing equivalent to audax?

Something like this?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boston_Rowing_Marathon

Since it involves carrying your boat and blades around Bardney lock, and the amount of weed on the river trying to pull you in, I'd say it was more like cyclocross.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: simonp on September 21, 2014, 03:38:16 pm
Averaged 20spm on my 10km yesterday. Nice and relaxed.

Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: Chris S on September 21, 2014, 08:09:50 pm
Today was more about the machine, than me.

(https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3854/15312230305_747db2bf0b_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/pk6bAM)PM3 upgrade (https://flic.kr/p/pk6bAM) by Pelotonhound (https://www.flickr.com/people/40735552@N05/), on Flickr

Firmware upgrade means I can now integrate the PM3 with my phone and HRM. Mmm... stats....
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: simonp on September 21, 2014, 08:15:56 pm
Didn't have time for more than 5km after doing chest and back weights this afternoon. First week of the challenge and 35,068m done.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: fboab on September 22, 2014, 09:39:03 am
Did a bit better this morning with the 5k. To be honest, I think I wasn't really trying last week. I've forgotten how to flog yourself on the rowing machine. Probably obliterated the horror from my memory.

Still, 22:51 isn't bad for a short fat bird. Still a minute down on last season.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: Marco Stefano on September 26, 2014, 06:31:11 pm
... Probably obliterated the horror from my memory.

Still, 22:51 isn't bad for a short fat bird. Still a minute down on last season.

You will remember about halfway into a race-pace 2k or 5k. Just before you think 'what the hell am I doing this for?', or if in competition, 'I've actually paid to do this; how mad am I?'. Then you start inwardly yelling at yourself - unless that's just me...

Well done, fboab. I am still in back-protecting drone mode, so 47/48/49 mins for 10k while listening to the radio, some with rating intervals at the end if I feel like it. 100k might be a good target for me for the challenge, as work is getting in the way a bit.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: simonp on September 30, 2014, 08:53:29 pm
I’ve been slacking for the last week or so, due to a lurgy. Said lurgy seems to be resolving today, so I’ll hopefully be back on it soon.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: simonp on October 07, 2014, 01:30:09 pm
I’ve been slacking for the last week or so, due to a lurgy. Said lurgy seems to be resolving today, so I’ll hopefully be back on it soon.

57km done so far with just over a week remaining. 100km looking unlikely. Felt very tired this morning so a rest day is called for.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: simonp on October 11, 2014, 12:31:06 am
It’s still all to play for with 5 days remaining.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: Marco Stefano on October 11, 2014, 07:47:53 pm
I am fully lurgied and have been for two weeks. I was hoping for well over 100km but doubt I will be able to do anything next week either, sod it.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: simonp on October 15, 2014, 01:49:45 pm
It’s still all to play for with 5 days remaining.

Looks like you got me. Last day of the challenge but I've got a turbo sesh lined up for tonight. You only need 7km to get to 100km, going to go for it?

I was going to get up early and go to the gym but I had trouble sleeping (I didn't get to sleep until about 4am) and overslept. I'm playing football 6-7 so I'm tempted to leave it there.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: mike on October 18, 2014, 04:37:44 pm
i had my first race for 11 years today and I didnt die!!  The fools had put me at 7 in a veterans 8, so I actually had to concentrate rather than being in the 4/5/6 seat and disengaging brain - i'm not sure they'll make that mistake again.

There was a horrible headwind which kept the rating down to 32/34 and it was on the river in cambridge which I know better than my own garden, so I could pace myself fairly well and didnt blow up half way.  And, to cap it off, I think we might have won our category... ( there were only 3 boats in it, but a win's a win!!)
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: simonp on November 13, 2014, 10:37:58 pm
Rowing ineptitude:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=XDvMBPZ5Bik
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: Marco Stefano on November 15, 2014, 03:22:22 pm
Rowing ineptitude:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=XDvMBPZ5Bik

Blimey... That's even worse than the Cam.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: simonp on December 23, 2014, 09:02:49 pm
Nice.

Not going to happen here. Been spending a lot of time on weights and limited cardio. Then I hurt my arm playing football a week ago, and now it’s limited everything.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: CrazyEnglishTriathlete on December 26, 2014, 02:55:57 pm
First day back on the rower today.  A not very fast 4000m.  But I'm aware that my core strength isn't what it was, so rowing will hopefully lay a good foundation for PBP in August.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: CrazyEnglishTriathlete on December 27, 2014, 08:59:10 pm
Long steady strokes today - 5000m in 450 strokes at rate 23 - 24.  Then planks to warm down.  Will feel the core on tomorrow's hike with my boys to Alton.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: CrazyEnglishTriathlete on December 31, 2014, 01:47:35 pm
8000m yesterday. Starting to find my rhythm. Although I'm still about 2s per 500m slower than last year, I'm going to still have a go a the magic 10 miles in the hour by Easter.

That will give me some motivation to rebuild the core strength that will come in handy for PBP in August.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: scottlington on January 13, 2015, 09:38:25 am
So.... bought myself a Concept 2 at the weekend. Just waiting for it to be delivered. Thought I might join in the fun.  :sick:

I'm amazed at the value these things hold even when years old! eBay tends to fall at around £650 for a model D with PM3. If you are lucky you can get one for a bit less than that but tricky and you have to be quick... I ended up buying a brand new one simply because it's 'only' a coupla hundred quid more and you get the PM5 (which probably makes little difference in reality but gives you a nice little rosy glow that you are getting something 'better'). I figured the worst that would happen is I lose circa £150-200 on it over the next year. Now if only brand news cars held their value that well....
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: simonp on January 14, 2015, 02:04:18 pm
Team yacf is signed up for the virtual team challenge but only 3 members have put their name down. You have to sign up by the 15th if you want any metres to count.

I nearly typed 'meters' - oh dear.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: Swarm_Catcher on January 14, 2015, 03:06:08 pm
I've joined.  I'm not doing huge numbers, but when the treadmill is busy I tend to go for the ergo, so might as well count it.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: fboab on January 14, 2015, 05:05:46 pm
What're the challenge dates?
(Desperately hunting for motivation)
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: simonp on January 14, 2015, 05:59:39 pm
Jan 1st-31st.

Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: fboab on January 14, 2015, 09:48:43 pm
pfft too late then, not worth joining for 10k a week
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: simonp on January 14, 2015, 10:04:28 pm
I just did my first 2015 metres. I doubt I’ll do 10k a week. I’ll still add them to the challenge.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: fboab on January 14, 2015, 10:16:01 pm
Now you just made me feel guilty!
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: simonp on January 14, 2015, 10:24:12 pm
Oh! Well, until a few minutes ago we had about 4 people on the challenge with 0 metres recorded. Most of us are just on there to bring the average down, it seems.  :-[

If you do 10k a week you’ll bring our average up quite a bit.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: fboab on January 14, 2015, 10:28:13 pm
OK, OK, OK

A return to the rower is long overdue.

Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: Feline on January 14, 2015, 11:28:45 pm
I did a mighty 1000m in my first gym visit for months, and consequently made the torn shoulder hurt and haven't been able to go back since.
If I do really well I might manage another 1000m by the end of the month  ;D :facepalm:
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: scottlington on January 15, 2015, 09:36:13 am
Get yourself over here: http://log.concept2.com/challenge/univDetail2015.asp?univ=YACF+-+Yet+Another+Cycling+Forum (http://log.concept2.com/challenge/univDetail2015.asp?univ=YACF+-+Yet+Another+Cycling+Forum)  :thumbsup:


Ok, so I'm now affiliated to the YACF team. Haven't joined the team challenge and won't until I have sorted a few things out like technique and the suchlike. Certainly would't want to drag your figures down at this early stage. Is it a monthly thing, this virtual team challenge then?
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: simonp on January 15, 2015, 09:50:09 am
There are various challenges throughout the year. Not every month though. Don't worry about dragging the average up or down. It's about motivation.  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: fboab on January 15, 2015, 12:51:00 pm
Certainly would't want to drag your figures down at this early stage.
hahahhahahha.
We generally come last. :facepalm:
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: Chris S on January 15, 2015, 03:08:24 pm
Well, that's a nice surprise. I signed up, and it's retrospectively added a row I did last week - I'd forgotten it does that  :thumbsup:.

I see I'm the Senior of the group  ::-)
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: Chris S on January 15, 2015, 05:03:20 pm
Quick tester this afternoon, following lurgy.

Ahhh... No.  :hand:

I'll stop coughing soon, I expect.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: simonp on January 15, 2015, 06:50:14 pm
My legs weren't in the mood for it at all last night. Still recovering from riding a 200k on fixed in WEATHER with no miles in my legs.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: scottlington on January 16, 2015, 09:03:49 am
Still messing around with technique. I seem to have the very common problem of not feeling like my legs actually do anything much. Reading through this thread and various Googly type resources it's very clearly a technique problem so that's my focus for a little while. I think I have the other technique bits okish, just the drive with the legs. Oh, and really trying hard to slow down the recovery stroke.... keeping slow is hard.... :-\

Actually, judging by a first attempt at 2k yesterday, I am officially shit.  ;D Still, onwards and upwards!
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: scottlington on January 16, 2015, 01:07:17 pm
So, after spending a coupla thousand metres trying to stop my back from moving before the leg drive (mixed success, works slowly, speed up or get knackered, goes to pot! Practice!!), then did another 2k row. Time of 8:13.9 @ 24spm. That knocked over a minute off yesterday's and two minutes of the first one.

Need to keep practising the whole drive phase although at least this time I remembered to keep stroke rate down. Due to looking and feeling like I have a 12lb baby occupying my abdomen I am naturally having trouble getting breathing right too. This really starts to tell at the end of the session. Another thing to practise.  ::-)
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: simonp on January 16, 2015, 01:13:33 pm
I was doing my 2k the other day, sitting at around 20spm (varying between 18spm and 22spm) and the guy next to me was doing 32spm on level 10 and the rowing machine was moving across the floor. When he got half a length ahead he got off and pulled it back. There's a bar on the floor keep them in place and he put it back behind that bar so it didn't move again.

I got my pace down to 1:55 at the end while still doing around 22spm. Not done a fast 2k for ages (I did 8:25.0) really not fit enough ATM, I expect.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: Chris S on January 16, 2015, 01:38:37 pm
A full 6-pack of 2L bottles of water on one of the feet keeps everything in order  :thumbsup:

Beer would be harder core. Just sayin'  :).
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: scottlington on January 19, 2015, 04:49:55 pm
So, 2k down to 8:07.4 yesterday with average HR 177. Struggling at the moment to see me getting below 8:00 cos that hurt. Did a 5K today at a lot easier pace, 22:48. PM5 decided not to upload that to the USB though so I have no record of it other than what I saw at the end on the monitor. >:( Average HR 156 think spm was 21 iirc.

As noted on some other post on this thread, you do kinda get into a rhythm after a while and I did think I could sit there for another 5K. So maybe that is a 10k pace for me at this early stage and I ought to try a slightly higher pace for 5k. I'll not try 10k for a while yet though.

No problem in terms of aches or pains either (other than a slight blister on the right hand) which I suppose I should be grateful for. Hopefully it means my technique, which is far from great I would imagine  ;D, is at least not bad enough to cause any physical problems.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: simonp on January 19, 2015, 05:00:58 pm
Rowing machine follows a cube law for pace vs power. So my 8:57.0 yesterday was 159W, well within myself and average hr was about 130. Going to 8:00 increases power to 202W. Not so easy by any means.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: asterix on January 22, 2015, 03:37:33 pm
Advice wanted!

Am getting a stitch when about 5 mins into a 2km row. I've been rowing abt 3 mths, 2 10mins rows a week together with other stuff. I can keep going but it doesn't go. I'm fit, doing 2km in 8:40 fairly easily but not improving at the moment.

Tks for any advice.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: asterix on January 25, 2015, 06:49:59 pm
Update from this mornings session.

Set out to improve breathing from the start, taking deeper lungfuls.  This time I managed to last over 6 mins before any signs of a stitch, a milder version on the other side.  Got my time down to 8:27:08 (from a cold start).

Conclusion: it's a breathing problem (and guess I shouldn't start from cold), and i need to learn abt technique.     


Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: simonp on January 26, 2015, 12:06:53 am
I’ve never suffered a stitch whilst rowing. If I’m going to do a hard effort I’ll warm first (1000m at minimum).

Also make sure you don’t eat too close to going to the gym - at least 2 hours gap between a meal and rowing.

On technique, try to keep the stroke rate down and concentrate on pushing through the legs, which is where the bulk of the effort should come from. Don’t be tempted to whack the resistance up to 10, set it to 4-5. It changes the feel of the rowing machine - the pace is related to how hard you’re working independent of the resistance setting.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: asterix on January 26, 2015, 07:08:54 am
Thanks for the suggestions. 

The machines are almost always at max when I arrive and I haven't  tried lowering the setting;  I will give it a go.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: asterix on February 02, 2015, 09:50:01 am
Tried the setting at halfway on Weds and achieved 1000m in 3:57 but the stitch was possibly worse so I packed for a few mins before resuming at a wind-down pace.  The half way setting seemed a bit low for me. 

Yesterday I did a tough 20 mins cycling before rowing so started off very warm but slightly cream crackered.  Setting up to 8, I decided not to push i it but see if I avoid being bent double as much as possible.  I now think that I am being a bit easy on the stomach muscles and not stretching out enough.  As a result of rowing far heavier boats* than skiffs without moving seats I am used to a slowish pace with much resistance.   

Stitch or no stitch, I'd recommend rowing machines for improving suppleness (in moderation, maybe).

* more this sort of thing:

(http://files.sloeproeien.info/200000433-3df073eeac/vliegende%20hollander.jpg)
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: scottlington on February 02, 2015, 11:39:56 am
Very much enjoying things so far. Been following the 'interactive 2000m programme' on the Indoor Sports site; into the third week. Nothing heavy so far, around 8-8.5k per session. Next week is where the program starts heading into threshold training so should be a mite more interesting. Having said that, I'm timing the sessions (by wrapping a nice warm and and cool down) to around the length of an episode of The Walking Dead so keeping myself interested!  ;D

New trainer tyre arrives tomorrow so will mix things up with some turbo trainer work and first Audax of the year on Sunday in prep for PBP so I'm looking forward to this next 6 months. On the flip side I spent most of last year getting fatter and fatter so am now the heaviest I have been since, well, probably 10 years I would say; at least before I started audaxing. So, that's gonna be a bugger to shift  ::-)
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: simonp on February 02, 2015, 11:45:43 am
I'm about the heaviest I've ever been too. Getting some miles in should help.

On Asterix's point about using the stomach muscles. If I do my abs routine at the gym (cable crunch, leg raises, bicycle abs) then try to use the rowing machine, it doesn't go well. This is one reason why I'm not getting so many metres in at the moment.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: Feline on February 06, 2015, 09:23:02 pm
It doesn't go too well for me whenever I time my getting on the rowing machine,. But i'm just putting that down to being a porky unfit cow really  ;D
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: fboab on February 06, 2015, 09:33:10 pm
I haven't been able to log my last 3 sessions because we have only 4 machines at the gym and unless I'm there at 6.31am the 3 that have working screens are already in use.
I hate this gym.
It also means I have no idea how I'm rowing. I make sure I do more than 15 minutes and try and not take it easy, which is my default setting for everything without reminders.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: asterix on February 06, 2015, 09:52:09 pm
Weds: Left it at setting number 8 and got down to 8:15:09 after trying to stretch more.  It put more strain on the arms as well as stomach and I'm struggling with timing my breathing.  More practice needed I expect.  Would love to get below 8 mins but don't think the arms are up to it!   
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: Feline on February 06, 2015, 10:23:31 pm
I have to use my inhaler to do rowing, both before and after. Is that cheating, Clentador stylee ?
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: simonp on February 06, 2015, 10:40:16 pm
About 1/3 of pro sports people have asthma. Make of that what you will.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: CrazyEnglishTriathlete on February 12, 2015, 07:27:21 am
I get a touch of asthma after rowing.  Its similar to the effect of riding very hard up a hill in the cold.  I think if you google exercise induced asthma you will get a zillion responses.  It doesn't seem to do me any harm.  Have a touch of it now as I did a 5000m this morning.  Much better than my previous best time this winter, but still 37s off the best time from last winter.  I struggled from 2000m to 4000m but as the end was in sight started to really motor so I guess the problem is as much in my head as it is in my legs.  I'm probably too used to long distance cycling that the brain shuts down when I go hard.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: simonp on February 12, 2015, 04:17:09 pm
I don't have it - I did a proper test. No drugs for me.  :(
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: Marco Stefano on February 14, 2015, 02:29:49 pm
Weds: Left it at setting number 8 and got down to 8:15:09 after trying to stretch more.  It put more strain on the arms as well as stomach and I'm struggling with timing my breathing.  More practice needed I expect.  Would love to get below 8 mins but don't think the arms are up to it!

Lower damper setting only makes the fan slow down less between strokes; if you can get the power on more quickly (can be more tricky at  lower settings) then you may go faster, but probably only at a higher rating (less rest time & more energy expended to pull yourself back up the slide). It's a personal juggling act to find out what is best for you. I am relatively small and so try to rev higher, with damper on 3-4 (and it replicates the feel of sculling). Concentrate on legs as arms do little in comparison.

As far as stitches go, before doing a 2K test I would warm up for at least 15 minutes, with increasingly hard intervals from 10 minutes on. You should be hot, sweaty and breathing hard at the end of the warm up. At which point I get off and have a shower.   ::-)  ;)
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: asterix on February 18, 2015, 08:34:27 pm
Did the warm up thing more this time and no stitch thanks.  Don't know why but I rarely get out of breath cycling or rowing, only running (at which I am pretty useless due to never doing it - if god had meant us to run why'd we get given bicycles?)
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: scottlington on March 24, 2015, 12:56:47 pm
So, I did a cheeky 2000m test this morning. 7.44.2. So that's 23 seconds off my time I logged end of Jan. Gotta be please with that. I reckon another month should see me under 7.40 and I don't think it's beyond the realms of possibility to get 7.30 at some point given progress so far.  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: mike on April 01, 2015, 03:39:41 pm
Huge respect to everyone doing 2k tests when you dont absolutely have to - they're awful, awful things that leave me wanting to vomit, unable to breathe and on the verge of soiling myself every bloody time.  For what it's worth, I normally have the damper on about 5, rate about 28/30 strokes a minute for most of it and I'm 6'2" and 100[ish]kgs.

Getting better at using the machine is a good way to 'cheat' some time off your PB without actually working any harder, so if anyone wants some coaching and you're coming past cambridge, let me know!

I did a 5k last week so my new rowing club can see how fit* I am, it was my first 'flat out' 5k for about 15 years and I'd forgotten just how much it hurts, but also how much you can push even when it does hurt.  I didnt die!

* - not very.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: simonp on April 28, 2015, 08:32:58 pm
7:29.8; 193bpm at the end. Didn't cry.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: mike on July 23, 2015, 08:40:38 am
It's townie bumps this week.  This is our first boat being written off:

http://youtu.be/EnCdPmdQlOU

(about 20 grand, entirely the other boat's fault for not stopping, yes bumps looks nuts - guide here: http://www.cucbc.org/bumps/how_bumps_work)


edit - here's yours truly, just above the 'h' of the watermark..

http://jetphotographic.com/showphoto.php?id=470007316

Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: simonp on August 06, 2015, 12:40:21 am
I seem to have joined a rowing club.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: mike on August 06, 2015, 10:11:56 am
I seem to have joined a rowing club.

excellent!   you'll soon see that cycling obsession is pretty mild compared to rowing.   

which club?
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: simonp on August 06, 2015, 10:47:57 am
Bristol Ariel. Doing their 6 week course starting next month.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: simonp on September 05, 2015, 10:27:28 am
Rowing course starts today.  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: simonp on September 05, 2015, 07:12:54 pm
That was hard work and great fun.  Back again tomorrow.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: Jakob on September 05, 2015, 11:25:16 pm
The evil coaches stuck a 1000m row at the end of a fairly heavy workout, but still managed to do it in 3:44 despite not having rowed in ages.
Was tricky as the girl next to me went at a crazy pace (35+ strokes/min) and I usually cruise at around 20-22 and it was hard not to get caught up. Subsequently, I really struggled around the 500m mark, semi-recovered, but could probably have gone for the sprint 20-30 meters earlier. (Left it to 150m to go).
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: Jakob on September 10, 2015, 01:12:55 am
More evilness:
Paired intervals
50-40-30-20-10-20-30-40-50 cal intervals. (You do a 50cal row, partner does a 50cal row, etc).
Having an off-day didn't help. Normally I can happily cruise at 1100-1200cal/hr, but today that was just about my anaerobic threshold. My partner was a rowing monster, happily motoring at 1500-1600ca/hrl, which also meant that my 'breaks' were shorter than my efforts. Last set I was at 800cal/hr and was dying.

Total time was 28:04
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: simonp on September 20, 2015, 05:58:52 pm
I have a nice case of sculler's knuckle.  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: simonp on September 28, 2015, 11:24:54 pm
Yesterday we spent a lot of time rowing as an 8. That was interesting.

Tonight a high tide meant rowing was off. Though there was no sign of it that I could see. However instead we did circuits. zOMG! Great fun but very hard work. So very tired.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: CrazyEnglishTriathlete on September 29, 2015, 08:47:10 am
Yesterday we spent a lot of time rowing as an 8. That was interesting.

Tonight a high tide meant rowing was off. Though there was no sign of it that I could see. However instead we did circuits. zOMG! Great fun but very hard work. So very tired.

This all sounds very serious (8s).  Does that mean that rowing might eclipse cycling? 

On the subject of eclipses that's why the tide was so high yesterday - lunar eclipse when the moon is at perihelion (closest to the earth) so there is the maximum tidal force.  For reasons too detailed to explain I was on the bus to Selsey yesterday and had wondered why the water in Pagham Harbour was as high as I'd ever seen it (and that was propelled by high tides and the January 2014 gales).  Fortunately the weather was calm yesterday, if there had been a channel storm we'd be talking about the Island of Selsey today.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: simonp on September 29, 2015, 12:26:32 pm
Yesterday we spent a lot of time rowing as an 8. That was interesting.

Tonight a high tide meant rowing was off. Though there was no sign of it that I could see. However instead we did circuits. zOMG! Great fun but very hard work. So very tired.

This all sounds very serious (8s).  Does that mean that rowing might eclipse cycling? 

On the subject of eclipses that's why the tide was so high yesterday - lunar eclipse when the moon is at perihelion (closest to the earth) so there is the maximum tidal force.  For reasons too detailed to explain I was on the bus to Selsey yesterday and had wondered why the water in Pagham Harbour was as high as I'd ever seen it (and that was propelled by high tides and the January 2014 gales).  Fortunately the weather was calm yesterday, if there had been a channel storm we'd be talking about the Island of Selsey today.

Yes, 8s. At first they daren't have all 8 rowing together as it'd go very wrong very quickly. The set-up is typically an experienced rower at stroke (rear of the boat) and an experienced rower at bow (should be self explanatory!) and then us beginners in the middle 6 seats. For the first couple of sessions the rear or front 4 would 'set the boat' which means sitting cradling the oar, blade flat on the water to balance the boat while the other 4 would then start (trying) to row. Initially that would still be pretty unstable. As we improve it moved on to 6 rowing in various combinations (and switching pairs while rowing for added fun). Feathering was introduced last week and once we got better at that we spent quite a lot of time rowing as an 8. The boats we're using are relatively stable but we still had a lot of wobbling, but it settled down a bit as we worked on our form and balance.

Some didn't enjoy Sunday's session because it did feel pretty unstable at times, but that's part of the challenge, coping with it going wrong and getting your rhythm back. There seems to be a long way to go and it's one of those things where you'd probably never stop learning. It has been much more social than cycling so far - it's very much a team sport and working together as a unit is key.

Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: simonp on October 11, 2015, 04:55:14 pm
Learn to Row finished today with a regatta. We were in 4s in the tubs. Only managed to win one race. Great fun though.

Now to join the novice men's squad.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: simonp on October 17, 2015, 02:04:57 pm
First session with the squad. We rowed down to the docks and back in a coxed 4. The entire return run was one armed rowing in pairs switching in and out, eyes closed throughout. Went better than I thought it would.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: Chris S on October 17, 2015, 05:52:10 pm
First time on the C2 in a very long time, today. Nobody died.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: simonp on October 18, 2015, 12:55:15 am
I've been told I'm banned from rowing in stroke as I'm 'too fit'.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: simonp on October 19, 2015, 10:13:55 pm
Cox called in sick. So we did circuits.  :sick:
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: simonp on October 21, 2015, 10:54:34 pm
Still sore from circuits. There’s an erg session tomorrow; 40 minutes at r18 apparently.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: simonp on October 22, 2015, 09:58:15 pm
And so it was that I hit 195bpm at the end and rowed 9595m in 40:00.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: Chris S on October 22, 2015, 10:29:59 pm
And so it was that I hit 195bpm at the end and rowed 9595m in 40:00.

Top work  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: simonp on October 22, 2015, 11:05:46 pm
And so it was that I hit 195bpm at the end and rowed 9595m in 40:00.

Top work  :thumbsup:

Yeah it wasn’t too bad given I’ve hardly done any erg work this year and my last 10k was a year ago. It’s a faster pace than my best 10k from last year. Plus we got some tips on how to take the catch and hand heights as well, so it was useful learning as well as training.

What it shows, probably, is that the training I’ve been doing on the bike & kickr crosses over well to rowing.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: simonp on October 23, 2015, 03:58:58 pm
Possibly a bit of dehydration may have contributed to the HR. Perceived effort and breathing were not as high as I'd expect for my HR being that high.

Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: simonp on October 29, 2015, 10:11:46 pm
2k test at the rowing club. 7:22.3. I think that's a PB. 22spm average.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: simonp on October 30, 2015, 05:39:19 pm
I've been given a goal of getting below 7 minutes by the end of the head season.

(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: simonp on October 30, 2015, 08:54:37 pm
That's what, 20 weeks? Given that you just rowed a 2k piece at just 22, I think it's entirely feasible. You just need to learn a bit of economy at higher ratings.

(FWIW, I've rarely seen anyone do an unrestricted 2k at such a low rating. I like low stroke rates and still go about 27/28 for a 2k.)

Yup. Coach commented that I’m already doing the sort of time most men in the club would be aiming for but at a much lower rate. In the short term the target is to increase the rate to 24spm and see how that goes.

I didn’t realise the end of the head season was so far away. Putting 7:22 and 7:00 into the pace calculator at the Concept website suggests that I have to increase power from around 260W (which around my cycling threshold power) to around 300W to get to 7:00. I managed to maintain 290W for 8 minutes on the turbo a month ago, so with better economy it might be just about do-able.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: mike on November 02, 2015, 02:20:13 pm
I can't ever remember rowing as a novice in an +VIII either: novices always seemed to arrive in IVs! Eights were for the serious racing types.

Cambridge novices are all clogging the river in 8s at the moment, mostly with novice coxes and frustrated coaches on the bank shouting at everybody. It's hilarious unless you're trying to get anything done.

it took one of the crews I was watching about 30 minutes to go 300 yards on friday morning when we timed it wrong and caught all the traffic coming the other way (from the P&E to green dragon bridge, for any cambridge types)
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: CrazyEnglishTriathlete on November 02, 2015, 03:53:08 pm
I've been given a goal of getting below 7 minutes by the end of the head season.

(click to show/hide)

Go for it.  Says he with PB of 7:05.  All my rowing PBs are just off a significant milestone.   :facepalm:
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: simonp on November 02, 2015, 04:15:50 pm
I can't ever remember rowing as a novice in an +VIII either: novices always seemed to arrive in IVs! Eights were for the serious racing types.

Cambridge novices are all clogging the river in 8s at the moment, mostly with novice coxes and frustrated coaches on the bank shouting at everybody. It's hilarious unless you're trying to get anything done.

it took one of the crews I was watching about 30 minutes to go 300 yards on friday morning when we timed it wrong and caught all the traffic coming the other way (from the P&E to green dragon bridge, for any cambridge types)

Not been to the P & E for years.

Since graduating to the novice squad, I've been out twice - once in a 4 and once in an 8. It'll be a night-time session in an 8 this evening. Probably in fog.  :thumbsup:

Lots of technical drills so far, less of the drunken spider.

Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: mike on November 03, 2015, 09:12:25 am

Not been to the P & E for years.

Since graduating to the novice squad, I've been out twice - once in a 4 and once in an 8. It'll be a night-time session in an 8 this evening. Probably in fog.  :thumbsup:

Lots of technical drills so far, less of the drunken spider


It was called the penny ferry for a bit, but it's now been knocked down and they're building about 500 flats on it.  Students still call it the P&E though.

How was last night? I love rowing in the dark, boats always seem to go better. 

We were out at 5.45 this morning in a 4 and the fog wasn't as bad as we'd expected.  (We have to get off the water before 7.15 in term time because that's when the student hordes are allowed to set off, and we're too old and grumpy to be crashed into every 30 seconds)

Racing this weekend on the tideway, in the old man's version of 4's head. Lovely.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: simonp on November 03, 2015, 09:42:37 am
We headed out doing rolling sixes, legs only rowing. Just us and the novice ladies on the river (and a tree which had appeared in the middle at a narrow point). I was in 6 and switching in when 7 & 8 switched out didn't really work, but apart from that it was a good run.

On the way back we did pause drills, and we got steadily more stable and pauses shorter - we did that one last weekend as well. It wasn't as foggy as I'd expected and we didn't crash into anything.

Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: Marco Stefano on November 05, 2015, 12:46:55 pm
Cambridge novices are all clogging the river in 8s at the moment, mostly with novice coxes and frustrated coaches on the bank shouting at everybody. It's hilarious unless you're trying to get anything done.

it took one of the crews I was watching about 30 minutes to go 300 yards on friday morning when we timed it wrong and caught all the traffic coming the other way (from the P&E to green dragon bridge, for any cambridge types)

I knew there was a good reason for helping to start Isle of Ely RC...  Good luck on the Tideway, Mike - and to think you could have been racing 5km at Ely SBH. Oh well...
 
In a vet VIII last Saturday for the first time in about 6 or 7 years (mainly single sculling since then, couldn't stand the politics & stupid arguments); surprisingly, a lot better than I thought it would be. Roll on the Winter League.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: mike on November 06, 2015, 10:37:21 am
Roll on the Winter League.

see you there!

(and we might see you at Ely beforehand, we're planning a couple of weekends boating from upware)

Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: simonp on November 06, 2015, 10:47:29 am
2x20 last night. Where have I seen that protocol before?
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: simonp on November 23, 2015, 10:13:17 pm
Did a 2K test before our water session tonight. 7:19.1 which is a new PB.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: simonp on November 25, 2015, 04:36:25 pm
You know you must.

log.concept2.com/challenges/holiday
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: fboab on November 25, 2015, 04:36:52 pm
K
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: Chris S on November 25, 2015, 04:42:48 pm
Don't make me!

(https://bplusmovieblog.files.wordpress.com/2013/03/harry-potter-and-the-half-blood-prince-1086.png?w=590)
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: CrazyEnglishTriathlete on November 25, 2015, 08:34:07 pm
Back on the rower (which was originally bought for Mrs CET) this evening.  As I have half a mind to do a row-bike-run ironman, my plan is for long steady rows at a constant rhythm, so got going at a rate of 21, trying to make every stroke long and strong.  Counted the number of strokes and got to 413 for 5000m, so 12.1m per stroke, which seems reasonably good to me.  Chuffed that the last 2000m were a good bit faster than the first 2000.

Will aim for a longer row on Sunday, depending on how the lower back (which needs a bit of strength conditioning) and (rarely-used) triceps come out of today.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: simonp on November 26, 2015, 03:13:15 pm
2k test night at the rowing club tonight. Monday I did 7:19.1. I see the next milestone for me as thus being 7:15.0. Putting that time into the Concept 2 pace calculator says that requires 272.5 Watts.

Now, I know that I averaged 282W for 8 minutes twice during the cycling FTP test I did last week. So in terms of the power that I can produce it should be do-able. I'll need to warm up better than on Monday. It'll hurt if I get anywhere near.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: mike on November 26, 2015, 03:30:53 pm
good luck!

Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: simonp on November 26, 2015, 08:51:08 pm
7:18.4 - went far too fast early on as they want me to do a higher rate. The last 1000m was one of the hardest things I've ever done. Got back below 1:50 in the final 200m - I've no idea how - which brought it back.

So that's two PBs in a week. My warm down was lying on my back on the floor gasping for air.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: CrazyEnglishTriathlete on November 27, 2015, 08:12:42 am
Well done Simonp!  My PBs on a rowing machine have all been set going slightly too fast early on and then hanging on for grim death.  If you can pick the speed up in the last 200m then you didn't actually go too hard. 

You know when you've gone too hard when you try to pick speed up and the room starts to spin.  But that will kick in at 1200 - 1250m, if my experience is anything to go by.  My 5000m PB was supposed to be an 8,000m row, but I started stressed after work.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: simonp on November 27, 2015, 09:56:01 am
No, I went too fast in the first and second 500m.  The splits were:

 1:46.3  291W
 1:45.9  295W
 1:51.4  253W
 1:54.7  231W

Power values are from Concept2 website pace calculator, rounded to nearest W.

Accounting for variation I suspect I was basically averaging around 300W for the first 3.5 minutes. I know from cycling experience that my highest-ever 5 minute power is around that, and I'm not as economic on the rower, so it was doomed from the start.

The good news is that better pacing will improve on that time.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: CrazyEnglishTriathlete on November 28, 2015, 06:11:15 pm
My weight might be more of an advantage on the Concept 2, as I'd have to be down to Tour de France winning skinniness to escape the heavyweight category on the rowing machine.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: simonp on December 17, 2015, 07:21:30 pm
5K test. 19:37.8 with 195 max HR.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: fboab on December 17, 2015, 10:21:01 pm
I did 22:53 last night which is a whole 2 secs off last season's PB and pretty good for a first row since July. Chuffed.
Inevitably, I have blisters. :facepalm:
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: fboab on December 17, 2015, 10:22:06 pm
And to not be heavyweight, I'd have to lose another 25kg. Uh huh.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: simonp on December 17, 2015, 10:34:57 pm
I have those too. Unfortunately my time was 40s off my PB which I set in 2011.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: ElyDave on December 21, 2015, 10:45:29 pm
I managed a massive 45k on my erg this year ;D
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: simonp on December 21, 2015, 10:52:49 pm
I'm nowhere in the 100k challenge, too many other things going on.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: Chris S on January 07, 2016, 06:50:38 pm
Maffetone AeT test. Quite possibly the most boring thing I've ever done on the rower.

Thirty minutes, maintaining 124bpm (180-age - the "Maffetone Formula") on the HRM.

Being really really unfit, this translated to 5383m, 2:43 average split, at a mind-numbing 14spm.

The theory being, I suppose, after three months of base-level training, I should be able to go further, at a faster split, for the same HR. Or something.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: mike on January 20, 2016, 05:23:15 pm
My fitness is OK and technique is quite good but I'm still too heavy and not fit enough, so I've just binned myself from the 2nd eight before I get pushed..  I don't want to row in the 3rd 8 so I'll spend more time coaching, sculling and sitting on the erg.  Bugger.  I need to do more to be in a decent boat for the summer!   
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: simonp on January 20, 2016, 05:42:00 pm
I remain the lowest of the low, a recent recruit in the novice boat.

Last 2K test, I was fastest in the boat. For the most recent 5K, I was beaten by Tom - he's 15 years younger and taller. Bah.

On Saturday we did the entire session apart from the initial warm-up, rowing as 8. Longest I've been in continuous rowing as an 8 to date. Main issue for me is that we're usually down on bow side and I'm always skimming the water on the recovery.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: mike on February 16, 2016, 10:42:29 am
16 of us doing 10 x 500m on the erg this morning, working in pairs so 1.40/45 (ish...) of work and then 2 minutes off.

Nearly sick. 
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: simonp on February 16, 2016, 12:39:22 pm
Nice. We did 5K test on Thursday. I acted as stroke, r24. Was fastest. And nearly sick.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: simonp on February 19, 2016, 08:50:35 pm
Head race on Sunday is off. Not sure if relieved or sad.

Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: simonp on February 20, 2016, 01:11:39 pm
Sad. Something clicked today in our double training session and we won't be able to take that into a race tomorrow.

Though the missing skin on my left hand is still relieved.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: simonp on April 20, 2016, 10:19:31 pm
https://m.imgur.com/sRvHW

Our squad is improving a lot. We had a productive session last night - and as much of the club was away at rowing camp (is that like band camp?) at the weekend, I was in an 8 with 7 IM on Saturday which was a nice change as the boat was more stable. We rowed as an 8 from the first stroke and did pyramids and ten green bottles - max HR 172 so there was plenty work. On Sunday I subbed with the Nov ladies squad and had another good work session.

We're targeting Monmouth regatta. Unfortunately this clashes with the Kernow 600k so I might have to ride the 600 Andy Corless is running. Not sure if this is good or bad news. I may not get in a boat, crew selection is yet to happen.

I haven't done a test erg for a while but I've been fastest in every session I've attended recently. If my cycling fitness is any guide, I should be able to improve my 2K time. My season PB for 5K is a long way off my lifetime best and I'm not so sure I can get sub 19 minutes again.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: Manotea on April 21, 2016, 12:17:53 am
I acquired a C2 at Christmas.
Starting of it was all I could do to manage 500m - weak as a kitten and my CV system completely shot.
Currently at 2km @ 2:092:-6 and can just about manage 5k @ 22m.
So moving on but a long way to go yet....
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: simonp on April 21, 2016, 01:05:50 am
Your 2:09 is better than some I could mention.

Main drive comes from the legs. Legs, then body, then arms right at the end. Then the reverse order. Strong core, straight back, relaxed shoulders.

Easier said than done.

Another tip: the return down the slide is called the recovery for a reason. Aim for a 2:1 ratio between recovery and drive, in terms of time.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: mike on April 21, 2016, 07:51:59 am
I'm doing too much coaching and not enough rowing.. struggled through 3 x 10 minutes on the erg last night and it was embarrassingly bad. More required!

aiming for a 2:1 ratio works well at lower rate / firm pressure but as the rate comes up the drive time doesn't actually change that much, so as the rate goes up over 34ish the ratio heads towards 1:1.  You can still keep control on the slide by spinning the hands a bit quicker.

Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: iddu on April 28, 2016, 12:34:13 pm
Your 2:09 is better than some I could mention.

Main drive comes from the legs. Legs, then body, then arms right at the end. Then the reverse order. Strong core, straight back, relaxed shoulders.

Easier said than done.

Another tip: the return down the slide is called the recovery for a reason. Aim for a 2:1 ratio between recovery and drive, in terms of time.

Quite. First 5K yesterday in 21:33, but at a stupidly high 30 s/m?  Not collapsing, no strain, but not really feeling anything thru the legs?? 

More practice / find a (better) rower for critique???
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: simonp on April 28, 2016, 12:44:53 pm
I find dropping the rate allows me to feel it through the legs more.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: mike on April 29, 2016, 04:00:02 pm

Quite. First 5K yesterday in 21:33, but at a stupidly high 30 s/m?  Not collapsing, no strain, but not really feeling anything thru the legs?? 

More practice / find a (better) rower for critique???

post a video, we can all have a go!!  :) 
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: simonp on May 07, 2016, 04:21:12 pm
Tuesday we did some race pace pieces rowing all 8 - after weeks of technical work it was a nice change to put some power down. We were comfortable up to about 26-28 and it started to get a bit ragged as we pushed above 30. Big improvement in the set of the boat but we all got quite wet.

Today we went out again and would've done more race pace but there was too much debris coming down the river. Apparently a paddling pool went past earlier on. Another good outing and the boat was the most stable I've been in. The drills appear to have really helped.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: simonp on May 10, 2016, 11:42:38 pm
Zoiks! I'm in 3 seat in an 8+ for Monmouth Regatta. My first actual race.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: chrisbainbridge on May 11, 2016, 06:39:53 am
Good luck.  i have not been in an eight since university but the feel of an eight moving perfectly is awesome.  (i think we got there once)
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: iddu on May 11, 2016, 11:38:46 pm

Quite. First 5K yesterday in 21:33, but at a stupidly high 30 s/m?  Not collapsing, no strain, but not really feeling anything thru the legs?? 

More practice / find a (better) rower for critique???

post a video, we can all have a go!!  :)

clicky (http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r200/iddu/20160511-Rowing/20160511_zpsf3feiedm.mp4)

There ya go.

Down to 20:32, @ avg 29s/m
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: simonp on May 12, 2016, 12:07:24 am
Slow down the recovery and do it in the correct order! You're doing all three parts (arms, body swing, legs) together. It should be in sequence.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: mike on May 12, 2016, 09:01:00 am
:) 
A couple of things to try:
 - when you finish a stroke you are in about the right position, but you get the next bits in the wrong order.  Let your hands go first while you're still leaning back, and get them as far away as you can.  Then lean over, pivoting from the hips until you can feel the stretch in your hamstrings.  Keep your back fairly straight, dont go *too* far, but you need to get the handle ahead of your knees and only then you bend your knees and start to slide forwards. 
-  it's the same thing but in reverse during the stroke... again you're in about the right position at the catch but you're doing too much with your back and arms before your legs are finished, so concentrate on keeping your shoulders forwards while your legs do most of their bit and only then start to lean back and bend your arms.

try dropping your feet a couple of holes on the footplate and do five minutes with your feet not strapped in, that should bring you into a better position at the finish (take the first few strokes gently, and point your toes the whole time!)

watch this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yVkMzEXChLc
(she's exceptionally flexible, not many people can rotate forward that far!)

For 20 minutes, try and get the rate down to 22/24ish.  This will need moar power from your legs per stroke, but if you get the movements in the right order it should be easier to get there.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: iddu on May 12, 2016, 11:54:25 am
Alright, guvn'rs...we'll see what 'appens.

Much the same as life then, the beginning and end are OK, it's the bits between I can't cope with  ;D

>She's exceptionally flexible
Specialized BG Shop Bod: "You've broken my calculator, (blokes are) not supposed to be able to bend like that(*)..." ;D ;D
(*) The upside of daily stretching and pilates...
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: simonp on May 18, 2016, 03:28:50 pm
Last night we focused on race starts. I think we did about 30. Maybe more.

Ow.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: iddu on May 19, 2016, 11:36:40 pm
[chant]Legs, Bend, Pull, (beat), Throw, Bend, Legs, L, B, P, (b), T, B, L, L, B, P, (b), T, B, L[/chant]... https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/236x/7b/d4/77/7bd477b706d596e8130c428e7ee7e40f.jpg  ;)

Mmm, 22:40 @ 23s/m (down from 28m last week)

The thing I find odd is not feeling any resistance on the stroke until legs are straight - it's all body/arms.  That supposed to feel like that?
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: simonp on May 19, 2016, 11:38:10 pm
The power should be developed mostly from the legs. They're the most powerful muscles.

Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: simonp on May 21, 2016, 12:33:03 pm
3x1000m race pieces today. Hard work.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: mike on May 23, 2016, 10:57:12 am

Mmm, 22:40 @ 23s/m (down from 28m last week)

The thing I find odd is not feeling any resistance on the stroke until legs are straight - it's all body/arms.  That supposed to feel like that?

Nope.  Legs legs legs.  What drag factor is the machine set on?  Most of our mens squad have it at about 130 (http://www.concept2.co.uk/service/monitors/pm3/how-to-use/viewing-drag-factor)   if it's too light then you might not be able to apply the legs quickly enough.  That kind of drag factor normally needs the fan setting at 4 or 5, but it depends on the state of the machine, sometimes it needs to be higher.


Last night we focused on race starts. I think we did about 30. Maybe more.

Ow.


Back when I was fit we managed to persuade the stroke man of the german olympic 8 to join us for a race in Cambridge.  Rate 52 off the start was a bit of a shock to the system.

(http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a19/mikes99mail/02CB002-66-2_zpspf4mbczv.jpg)
(me at 5, looking quite a lot more in control than I felt)
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: simonp on May 23, 2016, 11:24:12 am
We also use 130 as the benchmark for all our erg work.

I really should do another 2k test at some point. Given the average power I produced in my cycling 8-minute test on Thursday (311W) I should be getting closer to 7:00.



Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: iddu on May 24, 2016, 01:51:42 pm

Nope.  Legs legs legs.  What drag factor is the machine set on?  Most of our mens squad have it at about 130 (http://www.concept2.co.uk/service/monitors/pm3/how-to-use/viewing-drag-factor)   if it's too light then you might not be able to apply the legs quickly enough.  That kind of drag factor normally needs the fan setting at 4 or 5, but it depends on the state of the machine, sometimes it needs to be higher.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NeD1cyZ8IqQ ;D

I'll have a poke around the menus tomorrow night - fan setting is at 5. From the catch into leg drive, the hands are back above the knees (so legs almost straight) before any resistance is felt.  It's almost like you could chop a foot out the chain to 'compensate'.  But that may just be how it's supposed to feel?

OTOH, (we) could just have magic thighs from riding so much :P
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: simonp on May 24, 2016, 02:35:03 pm
http://www.concept2.co.uk/indoor-rowers/training/tips-and-general-info/using-the-force-curve
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: iddu on May 25, 2016, 09:47:35 pm
Ta.

Pretty much all on the curve as shown in TR pic for 21 mins - nothing like peaks or DD

Hurrumph - needs ~6.5 for a 130 drag, no wonder it felt light.

[chant] LBA,ABL,LBA...[/chant]
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: iddu on June 07, 2016, 08:27:50 am
Getting there...

19 (gasp) 57 (gasp) 06 (gasp) at (gasp) 26 (gasp) s/m ;D

Need to bring it down another couple yet, thobut.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: mike on June 08, 2016, 03:00:07 pm
great job. 
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: simonp on June 08, 2016, 03:18:38 pm
Supposed to be a 2K test on Thursday, but I won't be around. Phew.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: simonp on June 16, 2016, 10:38:30 pm
Tonight's erg, first one I've been to for a while.

(https://c5.staticflickr.com/8/7447/27437361980_99dc86feb4_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/HNxDPb)What fresh hell is this. (https://flic.kr/p/HNxDPb) by SimonP2006 (https://www.flickr.com/photos/27424426@N00/), on Flickr
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: iddu on June 17, 2016, 11:13:14 am
 :thumbsup:

Down to 19:52:04 @ 24 s/m, so getting there.

PM: 5,000m / 20min - avg HR 130bpm
AM: 30 mins at Dentist - avg HR 150bpm

WTF  ??? Terror is better? ;D
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: simonp on July 07, 2016, 10:00:03 pm
Tonight's erg. 10x1:00/1:00r 2796m 1:47.2/500m r30.

And breeeaaathe.

Llandaff regatta this weekend.   :o
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: simonp on July 12, 2016, 10:25:37 pm
Well we didn't win anything.

Tonight I was down to cox (first time to me). I was just getting into the swing of ordering people around when I was told I was off the hook and was instead in a stable double. First sculling since one session back in September. Didn't know what to expect, but really enjoyed it.

Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: simonp on July 15, 2016, 11:16:41 am
Another erg session last night - 2x19' pyramids rate 24..30.

Gits.

Did 2:2.4 and 2:3.4 for the two pyramids.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: mike on July 19, 2016, 09:26:58 am
Bumps this week...   I've selected, coached and organised 6 women's 8s (with a lot of help) and am rowing in the mens fourth boat.

chaos expected.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: simonp on July 21, 2016, 11:19:46 pm
Bewdley Regatta. Rowing in an IM3 event as there was no competition otherwise.

Did the 10x1:00/1:00r again tonight. Improved to 1:45.0.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: simonp on July 25, 2016, 03:33:11 pm
We did not win.

This is getting to be a habit.

We have a 2K test on Thursday in the training plan. The last time I did such a thing was in November (I doesn't seem that far ago!). I did 7:18.4.

Fitness has probably peaked then dropped since then - only guide I have is the 1:45.0 I averaged doing 10x1 minute last week. Given that effort, what sort of 2K pace should I aim for?

AIUI, the standard pacing strategy is to do the first 500m at -1, then the next two at +1, and the final 500m back at -1. On the previous 2K it was a fly and die, but I think I'm better now at pacing at higher rates which will help me to keep it controlled early on.

Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: simonp on July 27, 2016, 12:12:24 am
My first outing as cox (in a 4) tonight. Did not crash into anything.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: simonp on July 29, 2016, 08:02:36 pm
Subbed last night.

Did the 2K tonight. 7:13.2, 5.2s improvement.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: simonp on August 19, 2016, 11:53:09 pm
Oxford City regatta tomorrow and Sunday.  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: simonp on September 26, 2016, 05:05:01 pm
Was a spare person on L2R on Saturday, having hung around after the non-AGM, so ended up going out in a (not stable) double (for the second time). When I said I found the last one scary, it was suggested that was because I was with Bart. Indeed, with Paul, it was a lot better and we managed some reasonable pieces with both of us working.

Wonder when someone will send me out in a (not stable) single.

Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: CrazyEnglishTriathlete on October 05, 2016, 08:15:23 pm
Back on our Concept II, hopefully it will be more of a routine this winter, as we now have an olympic bar and weights, a dumbell set and a bench, so I can do my full gym session at home.

4000m in 14:58 today (just into negative splits thanks to an all-out last 400m) then 20kg squats, 3 sets of 12, 55kg deadlifts and some girly weights on the ball to sort out the tweaks in my upper back from too much cycling.  The aim will be set a PB for the hour on the rower in the new year.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: simonp on October 05, 2016, 08:39:37 pm
That's a decent pace.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: mike on October 07, 2016, 12:40:51 pm
Wonder when someone will send me out in a (not stable) single.

have you tried it yet?  It's great!  We've just acquired a new Swift single, I took it out last week and it's really easy to sit but feels dead in the water - a bit like a floating erg.  Very different to our Janousek and aylings singles which are much less stable but feel a lot more alive.

I subbed into a reasonable quad this morning for 20k of steady state (about an hour and forty).  I let them do most of the work but am still struggling to stand or walk upstairs :)
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: CrazyEnglishTriathlete on October 10, 2016, 07:27:21 am
5000m this morning, first time I set it up to validate the distance rather than "Just Row".  18.38.9 was the official time, so will rank me 84th in my age group out of 900-odd.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: CrazyEnglishTriathlete on November 02, 2016, 08:04:33 am
Non-crazy work schedule this week so was able to do a gym session this morning and warm up with a 6000m row.  There's a Concept 2 holiday challenge of 100,000m between November 24 and December 24 so I might give that some thought.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: Jakob on November 02, 2016, 09:29:07 pm
I've joined a regular gym with the aim to get fit(ter) and the concept 2 and barbell will be my main tools, fitted in around kendo practice which I'm now doing regularly again.
Started out this Monday with a 2k row at 8:3x. PB when I was regularly crossfitting, was around 7:30, so not too bad, considering my almost complete lack of exercise in the last 6-7 months.
I kept an even 800kcal/hr until 350 meters to go, pushed it up to 1400, but completely blew up 50 meters from the end.
Plan is shorter distances/intervals (2k below) on lifting days, with longer 5k+ rows on non-lifting days. Still very sore from Monday, so with kendo tomorrow, I wont get back until Saturday.
Best thing is that new gym is open 24/7, so should be easy to find a quiet time.
I expect a sub 8 min 2k in a couple of weeks.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: Jakob on November 06, 2016, 02:57:36 am
Or maybe not.
No power whatsoever today. 2k row, had to work to maintain even 750kcal. Pushed it up to ~850 after 1k, delayed sprint until 250meters, but maxed out at 1250cal!! 8:48.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: CrazyEnglishTriathlete on November 10, 2016, 10:21:11 pm
Pruned 2 seconds off the 5000m time 18.36.7 but my ranking has dropped to 104 for 50 - 59 year olds as more stronger rowers register a time.  I'm better in those that have verified their time - 39 out of 500+.  It's different with a session after work - stress means that I go like a train and then face, compared with the morning where i start off steady and pick up pace.  With plenty of winter to go I hope to get closer to a PB.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: CrazyEnglishTriathlete on November 12, 2016, 06:44:07 pm
Had a go at 10k today.  Was hard work.  At the 6.5k mark my legs seemed to lose power (which is similar to past experience - I presume fatigue setting in) and it got harder and harder to keep the 500m split below 2.00.  Overall time of 38:40 is a worse percentile against age group than the 5k two days before, which suggests this was sub par, or that the 5k hadn't worked its way out of my legs.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: Oranj on November 14, 2016, 01:25:01 pm
Or imperfect pacing (given that you were dropping close to 2:00 pace in the second half yet managed an average 1:56 split overall). Always nice to leave a little in the bank for the last bit of a longer erg.

I rowed a brisk 10k last month (for the c2ctc (http://c2ctc.com/index.php?c_id=140)) in 39:28, and after a bit of a break from the machine since last winter that handle sure did get heavy towards the end, although the last 2k were very slightly my fastest.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: simonp on November 14, 2016, 01:31:31 pm
We did 3x12m on Thursday and my legs felt pretty heavy. Slower than 2:00 for all three. I blame the Upper Thames.

We took a GoPro out on Saturday which shows some technique issues to work on. I watched it during my 2h turbo session yesterday.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: simonp on November 22, 2016, 05:05:42 pm
Wonder when someone will send me out in a (not stable) single.

have you tried it yet?  It's great!  We've just acquired a new Swift single, I took it out last week and it's really easy to sit but feels dead in the water - a bit like a floating erg.  Very different to our Janousek and aylings singles which are much less stable but feel a lot more alive.

I subbed into a reasonable quad this morning for 20k of steady state (about an hour and forty).  I let them do most of the work but am still struggling to stand or walk upstairs :)

Not been out in a single yet. Had another outing in stable double at the weekend - river was fairly fast, so steering was tricky at times. Feel much more comfortable in a double than previously.

Heavy rain means we can't go out tonight, sadly. River way too high and fast (in fact the club was not even safely accessible for the weekly circuits last night).

Also, had a sports massage recently. "Your quads look in good condition, must be the rowing". That plus the many hours I've spent on the turbo this year.


Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: CrazyEnglishTriathlete on November 25, 2016, 05:33:06 pm
Or imperfect pacing (given that you were dropping close to 2:00 pace in the second half yet managed an average 1:56 split overall). Always nice to leave a little in the bank for the last bit of a longer erg.

I rowed a brisk 10k last month (for the c2ctc (http://c2ctc.com/index.php?c_id=140)) in 39:28, and after a bit of a break from the machine since last winter that handle sure did get heavy towards the end, although the last 2k were very slightly my fastest.

Did a 10k starting off at 1:58 pace today.  My splits were much better: 7:52.8, 7:51.0, 7:50.1, 7:50.6, 7:46.6 (250m sprint at the end, can't help myself) so I am probably going to try a longer session during the next week and see if I can keep this going.  Not long before I set the first hour marker for the winter, methinks.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: Chris S on November 25, 2016, 06:09:17 pm
We've celebrated the start of the Holiday Challenge by upgrading the ol' C2 to a PM5; the phone connection of the PM3 had died, and using the ErgData app on a phone does make the whole Logbook sync so much easier. Other useful features - Ant+/BT 4.0 HRM support, a nice sexy backlight to the display, more games (which we probably won't play).
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: closetleftie on November 27, 2016, 12:38:11 pm
So. If I was to try and row without using my legs, would I do myself an(other) injury? Nothing huge, 15 minutes or so 3 times a week.

Reason being, I've a broken leg and an external frame. Weight bearing not an issue (hence the load being transmitted through my legs isn't a problem) but knee & ankle mobility restricted, though not to zero.

I'd therefore be sitting with nearly straight legs throughout the stroke.

1. Useful, do you think, in terms of being reasonable CVS exercise?
2. Feasible?
3. Any problems the more experienced can foresee?
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: simonp on November 27, 2016, 01:17:33 pm
Warm ups in our rowing sessions are typically arms only then arms and body lean. So you can row like this. The power you can produce this way will be significantly lower and I'd want to build up slowly as your shoulders in particular will not be used to the effort.

Also note that flexibility limits how much body lean you can use. I often feel my hamstrings are a limiter. Will you be able to stretch them after a session?
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: closetleftie on November 28, 2016, 01:04:59 pm
Warm ups in our rowing sessions are typically arms only then arms and body lean. So you can row like this. The power you can produce this way will be significantly lower and I'd want to build up slowly as your shoulders in particular will not be used to the effort.

Also note that flexibility limits how much body lean you can use. I often feel my hamstrings are a limiter. Will you be able to stretch them after a session?

Hamstrings OK, actually. One of the pins catches the edge of my MCL so taut extension is sore at the knee, but can manage a good hamstring stretch. I'd not go heavy on the body lean anyway as I'm not experienced and/or taught well so I'd be worried about adding back injuries when I'm already biomechanically dodgy.

It'll only be to keep my fro blobbing out completely. Last time I managed to lose some weight and ended up in reasonable shape, but I paaid in terms of pin site problems. So I'd just be looking for a bit of variety.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: CrazyEnglishTriathlete on November 29, 2016, 07:19:49 pm
Good luck closetleftie
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: CrazyEnglishTriathlete on November 29, 2016, 07:25:04 pm
Gave a 30 minute TT a go today, as I'm being good and verifying each of my holiday challenge rows.  As it was after work, started off a bit faster than was probably wise but was able to keep going quite well to the 5000m point, which was just under the magic 8000m pace.  Paid for it after that and slowed down around the 6000m mark.  Hung in and started to ramp up the pace in the last 2 minutes.  The expected distance marker gradually crept up and up, from 7950 to 7960, 7970, 7980 and into the 7990s where it crept up by ones and stuck on 7996 with about 20 seconds to go, by which time the 500m split indicator was into the 1:37 territory and my eyeballs were on stalks.  But i'd left too much to do and holed at 4m short.  Still, it was the closest to a PB on any of my rows this season so perhaps an indicator that my training plans are heading in the right direction.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: mattc on November 30, 2016, 08:52:14 am
A very lovely chap in my cycling club got a gold in the Welsh Indoor Rowing champs - MLWT60+ category.  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: closetleftie on November 30, 2016, 12:08:35 pm
Good luck closetleftie

Thanks! Saw the physio on Monday and a turbo trainer with modified left-sided pedal is actually a good option too. Not sure why another physio was hesitant during my previous injury. It actually feels OK, so may be cycling a bit more than before. Rowing could wait, I think. There's bound to be more strain than gentle cycling.

Turbo for Christmas, I think!  ;D
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: simonp on November 30, 2016, 02:28:21 pm
We have to do a 1k r24 test this week.  Not sure about pacing as not done a hard 1K ever.

As my last 2k test was 7:13.1 which is just slightly better than 75th percentile for hwt in my age group, if I aimed for the same percentile I'd be aiming for around 3:20.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: CrazyEnglishTriathlete on December 01, 2016, 11:00:46 am
We have to do a 1k r24 test this week.  Not sure about pacing as not done a hard 1K ever.

As my last 2k test was 7:13.1 which is just slightly better than 75th percentile for hwt in my age group, if I aimed for the same percentile I'd be aiming for around 3:20.

Almost go out very hard and keep going until you perish.  That sort of time is not a lot different to the women's 3k individual pursuit on the track, so I would guess a similar sort of strategy would apply?
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: mike on December 01, 2016, 02:18:49 pm
We have to do a 1k r24 test this week.  Not sure about pacing as not done a hard 1K ever.

As my last 2k test was 7:13.1 which is just slightly better than 75th percentile for hwt in my age group, if I aimed for the same percentile I'd be aiming for around 3:20.

Almost go out very hard and keep going until you perish.  That sort of time is not a lot different to the women's 3k individual pursuit on the track, so I would guess a similar sort of strategy would apply?

Ouch, 1k is a horrible distance.. Not far enough to properly settle in, too far to go off flat out and hope for the best.  If you're aiming for 3.15 / 3.20 I'd go off at 1.40/1.42 and lift it a bit in the last 300. 

I did 10 x 500m last night (all at 2k+2, with a 2 minute rest between each), and I'd probably rather do that session than a flat out 1k.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: simonp on December 01, 2016, 03:05:30 pm
I didn't really get settled in. 3:29.2 which gives me something to work on.

The rate cap was difficult to stick to.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: CrazyEnglishTriathlete on December 05, 2016, 08:15:34 pm
Got my 10k time back into the 90th percentile for weight and age group today  :thumbsup:  Set off half way between hard and steady and kept it going.  May have found my rhythm.  Going to build up to a half-marathon before Christmas.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: CrazyEnglishTriathlete on December 08, 2016, 09:39:31 am
Was going to do a  12.5k in building up to the hour, but given that I was behind on the Concept 2 Challenge of 100,000m between 24 November and 24 December decided to skip the intermediate step and go straight for the hour this morning.  Managed to keep fairly steady pace, 12 minute splits were 3129m, 3115m, 3068m, 3065m, and 3074m so I think I got the pacing about right.  It was getting hard towards the end, so will need to think about the right pace to set off for the half-marathon.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: CrazyEnglishTriathlete on December 10, 2016, 01:58:58 pm
Half marathon done.  1:22:44.6.

Splits for 4300m sections were 1:56.6, 1:57.1, 1:57.7, 1:58.1, and 1:58.6, which felt like the right pacing.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: simonp on December 13, 2016, 11:25:42 pm
We have to do a 1k r24 test this week.  Not sure about pacing as not done a hard 1K ever.

As my last 2k test was 7:13.1 which is just slightly better than 75th percentile for hwt in my age group, if I aimed for the same percentile I'd be aiming for around 3:20.

Almost go out very hard and keep going until you perish.  That sort of time is not a lot different to the women's 3k individual pursuit on the track, so I would guess a similar sort of strategy would apply?

Ouch, 1k is a horrible distance.. Not far enough to properly settle in, too far to go off flat out and hope for the best.  If you're aiming for 3.15 / 3.20 I'd go off at 1.40/1.42 and lift it a bit in the last 300. 

I did 10 x 500m last night (all at 2k+2, with a 2 minute rest between each), and I'd probably rather do that session than a flat out 1k.

2k + 2 is quite hard going though.

Had a 1:1 with the coach after our water session. They seem to think 1k r24 is a reasonable predictor of 2K free-rate (i.e. just double it). That would suggest I /should/ be able to do 6:58. TBF, when I did my last 2K (7:13.1) I was a bit off peak fitness, so maybe it could be done. Just once. There's only one bloke in the Masters squad who can go under 7:00 (I'm in the Development squad). As it happens, I am not aware of anyone in the Dev squad beating my time. The one guy who I was sure would beat me cocked it up and also did 3:29. He should have been capable of 3:20, maybe less, he's done sub 6:40 2K.

On the technical side, he thinks I'm too aggressive round the finish, so I tend to wash out, and need to work on that. If I can improve that and get to sub 7 then I'll be much more useful.

On our water session I caught a massive crab, which flattened me. First time I've ever been thrown on my back, and I can't remember the last time I caught a crab. And it was caught on video.  :-[
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: CrazyEnglishTriathlete on December 14, 2016, 08:15:32 am
Improved the hour t0 15587m this morning.  I think doing the 1/2 marathon at the weekend helped train the endurance as I didn't start to fade after 40 minutes.  Splits were 3121, 3117, 3099, 3117, 3134 - was able to pick up speed with 5 minutes to go.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: CrazyEnglishTriathlete on December 29, 2016, 02:14:27 pm
The joy of having time over Christmas.  I should probably have gone out for a run this morning and taken advantage of the frozen ground, but I had a slight niggle at the top of the quad on my last run, which didn't seem to be impacted by the Concept 2.  So I set off at what I thought was a sustainable pace and decided to see if I could keep going all the way to 25,000m.  There was a moment of stress at about 6000m when the jambox ran out of power and the music died, but CET Junior was summoned to provide a cable and get the bluetooth going again.  Then it was plain sailing (as far as you can sail on steel contraption sitting on a concrete floor) up until the half-marathon point (my previous distance best) when it started to feel like hard work.  But by then it was almost over and the magic of almost there took over (after a bit of a wobble when I realised that 10% to go was still 2500m).

Contact points were OK, just a couple of warm points on callouses, which suggests that a marathon would be possible, although I would have to think about hydration and energy drinks.  If anyone has rowed a marathon on a Concept 2 would be interested in what they did with feeding/drinking strategies.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: simonp on December 29, 2016, 02:23:07 pm
Nice one. Hoping to get last water session of 2016 on Saturday. And first of 2017 on Tuesday. My new club kit should be waiting for me.  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: mattc on December 29, 2016, 04:53:29 pm
I think "hour records" are a brilliant thing. There aren't many sports where they are practical for Joe Public, so I urge you (indoor) rowers to make the most of the opportunity  :thumbsup:

(I'm too slow to ride a 25 in an hour, so I am cruelly excluded from that option :P )
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: CrazyEnglishTriathlete on December 29, 2016, 06:33:24 pm
I think "hour records" are a brilliant thing. There aren't many sports where they are practical for Joe Public, so I urge you (indoor) rowers to make the most of the opportunity  :thumbsup:

(I'm too slow to ride a 25 in an hour, so I am cruelly excluded from that option :P )

I think the holy grail for the hour would be 16095m (10 miles), but like most holy grails on the rower it's just out of reach (like that mythical hour for 25 (61:09); I did 15811m once, but that extra 300m was something like 1.5s splits over 500m, which is a chasm.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: simonp on December 29, 2016, 07:35:02 pm
Paul's law to calculate expected pace given a pace at a different distance.

http://www.machars.net/#paulslaw

My fastest 10K (from 2010) is 39:29.9 and my fastest (much more recent) 2K is 7:13.2. This 2K results in a significantly slower 10K prediction though I should still apparently be able to be under 40 minutes. 2010 was by far my highest milage year.


Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: CrazyEnglishTriathlete on January 04, 2017, 04:01:22 pm
Paul's law to calculate expected pace given a pace at a different distance.

http://www.machars.net/#paulslaw

My fastest 10K (from 2010) is 39:29.9 and my fastest (much more recent) 2K is 7:13.2. This 2K results in a significantly slower 10K prediction though I should still apparently be able to be under 40 minutes. 2010 was by far my highest milage year.

That's an interesting calculator.  My best 10k this year was only 3 seconds per 500m quicker than my half-marathon, and I would have said that I found the 10k tougher than the half-marathon.  But that might be after many years of Audax that I am not a speed and endurance balanced athlete.  Certainly I wouldn't get close to the 2000m time predicted from my 10000m time, although I would be delighted to do so. 

The good news is that, based on my 10k time I'd get under the 3 hours for the marathon  :thumbsup:  That is, once I've got over my black ice induced hip injury that looks like reducing my January metres to not very much.

Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: zigzag on January 24, 2017, 08:32:03 pm
i did my first ever timed attempt on a concept2 rower (while waiting for a wattbike to become available), 5km in 20:28. the resistance, as i found out afterwards was set to 10, i reckon somewhere around 6-7 would have been more suitable.
rowing speed compares pretty well with running speed, doesn't it?
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: simonp on January 24, 2017, 08:51:42 pm
I typically go a bit lower resistance. Rowing club advice is to display drag factor and adjust until it's 130 as this gives consistency between machines. Usually this is around 5.

My PB for 5K is 18:56 iirc. You are a much faster cyclist than me so with proper form and getting used to the machine you could surely beat that.

Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: zigzag on January 24, 2017, 09:07:53 pm
i almost started laughing when my arms started giving up half way through, such a contrast compared with the legs! ;D

another question - is there a technique to avoid blisters on one's hands? would mitts help?
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: simonp on January 24, 2017, 09:22:46 pm
Generally blisters mean you need to have a more relaxed grip. Try gripping with just your fingers and leave the thumb on top. I do get calluses which will help eventually.

It sounds like you are using too much arms. 75% or more should come from legs, a bit from the body and only a little bit of arms. There are plenty YouTube videos showing good technique.

For working on form it's a good practice to row at a lower stroke rate and really feel the push in the legs. Maybe 22spm. As you improve you can work efficiently at higher rates.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: fboab on January 24, 2017, 10:16:50 pm
another question - is there a technique to avoid blisters on one's hands? would mitts help?

No and no.
I don't grip tightly and I get blisters all the time, despite being a pretty regular rower. You build calluses (like when you're a regular lifter) and if you're me, then get blisters under the calluses when you do a long session. I've read that cleaning the handlebar properly may help. I tried cycling mitts and they made no difference, and I got rubbing from the seams.
I maybe wouldn't get blisters if I could knock out 5k in 20+ minutes rather than 23+, mind.  ;)
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: Jakob on January 25, 2017, 07:31:34 am
I typically go a bit lower resistance. Rowing club advice is to display drag factor and adjust until it's 130 as this gives consistency between machines. Usually this is around 5.

My PB for 5K is 18:56 iirc. You are a much faster cyclist than me so with proper form and getting used to the machine you could surely beat that.

Where do you see the drag factor?.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: simonp on January 25, 2017, 10:02:21 am
http://www.concept2.co.uk/service/monitors/pm3/how-to-use/viewing-drag-factor
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: Jakob on January 30, 2017, 08:58:48 am
Perfect thanks. Turned out that on that particular rower, it's at 5.5, where I usually tend to set it anyway.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: iddu on March 08, 2017, 09:49:23 pm
Silly tonight.

Chased the fish for 10 minutes, and 10860 points at darts...
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: simonp on March 15, 2017, 03:07:18 pm
7037m in 30:00 r22
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: mike on March 30, 2017, 12:26:57 pm
I've bought a boat!  A 10 year old janousek 1x called Emily. 

I coach during normal adult outings, then the juniors use all the sculls in the other sessions when I'm not coaching so I never get to actually row any more, and I really miss it.  I got free rack space at a club where I do occasional coaching and found this online for a sensible amount (1500), and he threw in some blades with it too so I thought why not?  I did a couple of years of sculling 10 years ago and love it.   Just need to get fit now... :D
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: simonp on March 30, 2017, 12:44:55 pm
 :thumbsup:

Two water sessions for me this week - 7 seat in an 8 on Tuesday, and I'll be in 3 seat in a 4 on Saturday.

We have a training camp coming up in April, chance to really get some decent time on the water.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: JJ on March 30, 2017, 03:02:16 pm
I've been out in an old farts VIII two Sundays in a row.  That's a 20 year PR!
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: JJ on March 30, 2017, 03:10:00 pm
I've bought a boat!  A 10 year old janousek 1x called Emily. 

I coach during normal adult outings, then the juniors use all the sculls in the other sessions when I'm not coaching so I never get to actually row any more, and I really miss it.  I got free rack space at a club where I do occasional coaching and found this online for a sensible amount (1500), and he threw in some blades with it too so I thought why not?  I did a couple of years of sculling 10 years ago and love it.   Just need to get fit now... :D

And grow eyes in the back of your head round here!
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: simonp on April 15, 2017, 02:37:44 pm
So it turns out capsizing a 4 is easier than you'd think.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: chrisbainbridge on April 15, 2017, 11:11:57 pm
!!!
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: simonp on April 16, 2017, 12:42:11 pm
Roll ups led into roll overs.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: chrisbainbridge on April 16, 2017, 05:13:28 pm
Can you Eskimo roll a 4?
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: simonp on April 16, 2017, 06:59:22 pm
Can you Eskimo roll a 4?

Not possible - you fall out straight away, there's nothing holding you in unlike in a kayak.

Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: chrisbainbridge on April 16, 2017, 10:47:23 pm
You can roll open kayaks bracing with your knees. I suspect it is as much to do with the problem of oars on both sides which makes the resistance too high. I could never manage an open boat but know many who can.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: simonp on April 27, 2017, 09:46:19 pm
Tonight's first: coxing an 8. Bossed it.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: simonp on May 11, 2017, 11:25:14 pm
Had go to the rowing club for another reason, so did the erg session while I was there.

250, 500, 750, 1000, 750, 500, 250

Got my HR to 191 during the second 750.  First time over 190 this year.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: mike on May 22, 2017, 05:16:54 pm
Had go to the rowing club for another reason, so did the erg session while I was there.

250, 500, 750, 1000, 750, 500, 250

Got my HR to 191 during the second 750.  First time over 190 this year.


Nice.  We have one called a widow(er) maker which we do about 3 times a year.

1 x 1000 r 26 @ 2k+5
2 x 500 r28 @ 2k
4 x 250 r30 @ 2k-5
8 x 125 r32 @ 2k-10
4 x 250 r30 @ 2k-5
2 x 500 r28 @ 2k
1 x 1000 r26 @ whatever you've got left..

you do it in pairs, so you rest while they erg.

 
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: simonp on May 22, 2017, 05:38:10 pm
That looks grim.  :hand: I should have held back as it was two days before the Bryan Chapman. Average pace over them all was 1:51.

What was worse was discovering after the Bryan Chapman (which I found unusually tough this year) we had seat racing for Monmouth Regatta on the Tuesday. I did 6x~250m pieces in a 4. I must have been down quite a lot on power but the end result was all three of us fighting for the bow-side seats came out roughly the same. (Stroke side had no competition). In the end it was decided we'd all race across the weekend.

Sunday crew going out tomorrow and we will be working on short r28-30 pieces and race starts.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: simonp on May 30, 2017, 11:23:42 pm
Monmouth sprint.

(https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4244/34999699595_3ef8e71a88_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/VjNBjt)DSC_1231-(ZF-3505-57354-1-001) (https://flic.kr/p/VjNBjt) by SimonP2006 (https://www.flickr.com/photos/27424426@N00/), on Flickr

We were just ahead at 500m, but the finish line was at 750m, sadly.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: simonp on June 06, 2017, 04:31:55 pm
1K test this lunchtime. 3:25.5. That's a PB.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: simonp on June 11, 2017, 09:36:25 am
1K time looks like it will be enough. 2nd fastest on bow side for the 4 at Llandaff.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: simonp on June 13, 2017, 11:01:39 pm
Tonight was in an 8. It was the best outing in an 8 yet.  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: simonp on July 02, 2017, 01:01:46 pm
Taking it all a bit too seriously. Yesterday we had 3 seat injured so the rest of us did 10km erg and then I trained at home on the kickr for an hour. Then today on the water at 8.30am for a session in the 4 with 3 back in, and then coxing a women's 4. Just had breakfast and trying to pick between more cardio or a weights session later. Racing next weekend, we should get two more water sessions in hopefully.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: simonp on July 04, 2017, 10:14:15 pm
Practice in our 4 for llandaff this evening. Racing the other 4. After first race coach said to our boat "I was told there was no A and B boat. Well that's clearly not true, you're the A crew".  :thumbsup:

Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: mike on July 05, 2017, 10:45:31 am
:D   addictive, isnt it?

here's the 8 I've been coaching: https://youtu.be/oi32huMQR_k
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: simonp on July 05, 2017, 12:20:36 pm
Looks good.  :thumbsup:

We will also be racing an 8 at Llandaff. The 8 has been going well - we've improved a lot since the last time I raced in an 8, which was more than a year ago. Would like to see some video of the 8. There's video of last night's races - that won't look so pretty.

Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: simonp on July 09, 2017, 03:53:54 pm
Made the final of the 500m today which we lost.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: simonp on July 09, 2017, 07:55:31 pm
Semifinal win: https://youtu.be/VzapzmK9sN4
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: mike on July 12, 2017, 11:00:39 am
Semifinal win: https://youtu.be/VzapzmK9sN4

 :thumbsup: Nice! is that you at stroke?
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: simonp on July 12, 2017, 04:15:18 pm
Semifinal win: https://youtu.be/VzapzmK9sN4

 :thumbsup: Nice! is that you at stroke?

I'm at bow.



Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: mike on July 26, 2017, 09:14:16 am
last week was the Cambridge town bumps, I was in a 'coaches boat' (reasonable technique for about a minute then it all goes badly wrong).   This is us paddling home just after getting a bump, I'm at 5, so the fourth face from the left.

(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4322/35368513643_d540031aab_b.jpg)IMG_5810 (https://flic.kr/p/VToSTn)

bumps rules here https://thetab.com/uk/cambridge/2013/02/27/a-guide-to-lent-bumps-15650 - it's bonkers.  We went up 3.


(JJ of this parish was in a much faster boat who had actually been training for it..)



Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: simonp on July 26, 2017, 10:24:24 am
 Looks like a nicely balanced boat.  :thumbsup:

We raced in a 4 and an 8 at Bewdley. Gave our "performance men" 4 a hell of a scare in the IM3 4+ final. We had a winner previous drawn against us in the semi but it wasn't taken so only 3 boats in the event. We led from the start but lost by half a length. If we'd been tidier in the middle of the race we might have won.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: tonyh on July 26, 2017, 11:18:58 am
Looks like a nicely balanced boat.  :thumbsup:

Certainly does. And it's got the relaxed glow of success, with the running of the boat feeling easy and perfect. Greenery noted too.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: simonp on August 12, 2017, 04:53:48 pm
Hangover cure: taking a 4 out. (Squad social last night). As we're racing 4+ and 8+ at Oxford next weekend we did a couple of race starts as well as some long pieces.  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: tonyh on August 12, 2017, 05:59:01 pm
Desperate methods of cure! Sounds like you'll be good for the racing though.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: simonp on August 22, 2017, 09:15:49 pm
So my DNF on LEL made me feel unfit.

Tonight I randomly decided to do a 1K test as I got down early for our race prep water session.

3:20.8. So that's almost a 5s PB. Not unfit. Just differently fit. Given I had a poor night's sleep to boot.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: simonp on August 27, 2017, 06:56:21 pm
Finally won a point. Racing IM3 4+ at Gloucester regatta. Only one of our crew had a point so three novices in our boat. We rowed through both crews we faced, having worse starts and coming back to win by a clear length.

 :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: tonyh on August 27, 2017, 07:10:03 pm
 :thumbsup:  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: chrisbainbridge on August 28, 2017, 08:35:02 pm
 :thumbsup: :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: simonp on August 29, 2017, 10:41:00 pm
There's video to prove it really happened:

(Warning: there's shouting).

Semi final. https://youtu.be/qMBdV_NsjUk

Final. https://youtu.be/Q0zQiJ59oa0

Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: mike on September 01, 2017, 08:58:15 pm
great job.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: Chris S on September 15, 2017, 01:55:13 pm
First time on the Concept 2 since January; a summer of the Beer 'n Crisps diet has done nothing to help my 500m splits.

Ah well.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: simonp on September 15, 2017, 05:55:14 pm
I'm traing with the senior squad now. Help! 4 or 5 of us that were racing in the IM3 4+ during the regatta season are giving it a go. It mainly means a lot more training commitment. Expect to see me doing even less Audax next year.

I'm psyching myself up to do a 2K test - possibly on Sunday. One of the other senior squad lads says sub 7 should be easy now. Riiiight.

I'm going to try holding 1:45 for 1500m and if I have anything left in the final 500m wind it up. Given I pulled 1:40.something for 1K recently it might just work!

Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: Chris S on September 15, 2017, 06:14:28 pm
If you're a follower of Concept 2 on Facebook, you may have seen the video of Josh Dunkley-Smith setting a new Oz 2km record of 5:38.6. Insane - he doesn't even look that fazed as he grinds out 1:25 splits. Incredible!
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: simonp on September 16, 2017, 05:51:47 pm
If you're a follower of Concept 2 on Facebook, you may have seen the video of Josh Dunkley-Smith setting a new Oz 2km record of 5:38.6. Insane - he doesn't even look that fazed as he grinds out 1:25 splits. Incredible!

Yep. Saw that. The guy's a monster. Barefoot too.

I daren't put in his splits to see the power numbers. I know that my 1K PBP is about 350 Watts.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: simonp on September 16, 2017, 06:10:23 pm
First time in a sculling boat (double) since April. First time I was in a fine sculling boat and not shitting myself. After warming up separately just rowed off - didn't phase me at all.

Not been out in a fine single yet, in two years. Might want to try the stable single first!


Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: mike on September 20, 2017, 10:10:20 am
you may not need to, a few outings in a fine double should learn you the basics of boat control - just take older, heavier blades with you to get more stability from them and make sure you've got someone on the bank with a throwline, and a dry set of kit in the changing rooms :)

(most of our novices go straight from double to fine single.  A few use the 'explorer' boat we've got but there's no real difference in speed of learning)

Falling in is nothing to worry about, I do it every six months or so......
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: simonp on September 26, 2017, 02:46:12 pm
Cheers for the tips. Fine double again last night and I was the more experienced sculler, so was in bow. We row on has lots of curves and overhanding trees for extra fun.

On Sunday might be going out in a pair. Boat isn’t currently rigged, if we rig it as a pair we will have to bow rig it as I’m in stroke on the outing plan.


Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: simonp on October 16, 2017, 11:02:03 pm
Did 12k in a double instead of a pair. It helps to have someone competent in bow!

Unfortunately am out for a while now with a sprained wrist. Also going to need a trophy cabinet: won first pot, then at the club dinner jointly won dolphin of the year, and won best male newcomer, and also have an ultra randonneur thingy on the way.  :facepalm:

I’m going to try to palm off the dolphin prize on one of the others in our capsizing 4 as it looks breakable and we have cats.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: fboab on October 20, 2017, 08:26:02 am
Heading out in this next week- weather permitting : https://crastercoastalrowingclub.com/

A whole different kettle of fish.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: simonp on January 27, 2018, 07:57:09 pm
Back rowing with the performance squad today after a test outing with the dev men last weekend to see if I was ready. Wrist didn't react too badly last weekend and so far (with a couple of doses of vitamin I) no reaction to today's outings.

4+ UT2 this morning for an hour then later on 8+ with some real work, 10 on 10 off up and down the river. Coach pushed us hard on this one and we did some real work.

Given I've been out for 3-4 months and both crews were untried combinations, it went very well, and my wrist is ok so far.

Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: simonp on February 11, 2018, 05:10:26 pm
Yesterday was two hard sessions in 4+, first time in our best 4 which was unexpectedly bow-rigged. I was surprised how light the boat was compared to the tanks we normally row. It was also a bow-loader and seemed to be quite fast. This will be going to Worcester Head next weekend though I am not in the race crew, not been back long enough to put my name down.

Today I went out in a stable single. Stable seems to be a term with various interpretations. This is my first time in a single since learning to row, excluding a session pottering about within sight of the club in a training boat, about 2 and a half years ago. The conditions were tricky: lots of stream, river up over the slipway, low sun, and windy. One of the other scullers out today described it as "adventure sculling". Well managed to paddle around for 4km and got a lot more confident. Knackered now.

I'm down to do some more sculling next weekend in the stable single and a fine double. Would be good to get more sculling time as I think it will help with bad habits. Not quite ready to try a fine single, particularly in the conditions we've been having - and it would be very cold if I went in!

Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: mike on February 12, 2018, 09:08:32 am
Stable seems to be a term with various interpretations.

 ;D ;D

we've got some 'explorer' boats at ours, they're 2x the width of a normal single and even though they're quite hard to capsize they definitely let you know if your timing isn't right or you make a mess of the finish!  Stick at it..
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: simonp on February 12, 2018, 06:23:21 pm
Stable seems to be a term with various interpretations.

 ;D ;D

we've got some 'explorer' boats at ours, they're 2x the width of a normal single and even though they're quite hard to capsize they definitely let you know if your timing isn't right or you make a mess of the finish!  Stick at it..

Yeah they’re explorers. We have two singles and a double. More time booked next weekend.

Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: simonp on February 13, 2018, 10:47:25 pm
Hmm, 5K test required this month.

 :facepalm:
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: simonp on February 16, 2018, 12:45:44 pm
How not to do rowing.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-england-hereford-worcester-43044172/rowers-hit-barge-in-river-crash-by-the-camp-house-inn-near-worcester

Worcester Head Race is tomorrow and the course has been shortened to start downstream of this location, AIUI.

I've just volunteered to be a stand-in if the bow man in our 4+ needs to drop out. I've not done a long piece in ages so the race being only 4km would suit me well.


Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: simonp on February 19, 2018, 10:55:28 pm
So I sat in bow. The race went back to 6km distance. I've never done a 6km piece before, never rowed in that crew. We did ok, in that we weren't slowest in our division.

I'd have liked more than a day's notice - I did weights on Thursday and still didn't like stairs. I didn't feel too bad during the race though.

Then yesterday back at the club, apparently it's now regatta training already. So we ended up doing 3x race starts. FFS!  ;D
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: simonp on February 27, 2018, 11:52:03 pm
5K tonight, after having not trained in pretty much a week apart from a priming workout yesterday, after a bit of lurgy.

Really struggled to breathe, bit of a fly and die, managed 19:45.2.

Oh well, at least there's room for improvement.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: simonp on April 29, 2018, 10:12:05 pm
Busy weekend at training camp. 61km of rowing over 3 days in 4-, 4+, stable 1x, 8+. Camp was at Wimbleball lake on Exmoor. The weather was unfriendly, cold and wet and windy. The 1x was very unpleasant.

Absolutely knackered now. Very productive few days, though.

Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: Chris S on May 06, 2018, 06:43:16 pm
Today, fboab and I have been coastal rowing. Great fun!

(https://farm1.staticflickr.com/908/41033441315_ed3ab3b1d8_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/25vZ7w8)
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: simonp on May 06, 2018, 09:18:08 pm
Nice.

We had beautiful conditions on the Avon this weekend.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: simonp on May 09, 2018, 11:47:01 am
Well I’m in the senior crew for first 4+ of regatta season. Oldest in the boat by 16 years.  :o

My 2K times are not what they were a year ago but the other guy for bow seat is slower and didn’t even post a time. So I’m in by default.  ;D

Saturday 1500m gonna hurt.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: simonp on May 09, 2018, 04:43:54 pm
Ow!

5x500m 1:49.2 at lunchtime.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: simonp on May 16, 2018, 10:39:11 am
Did same st 1:48.8 yesterday evening, r29.

It’s supposed to be 6x500m but I felt sick after the 5th and didn’t want to find out what would happen if I did another.

Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: mike on May 17, 2018, 01:02:29 pm
Did same st 1:48.8 yesterday evening, r29.

It’s supposed to be 6x500m but I felt sick after the 5th and didn’t want to find out what would happen if I did another.


:D  sounds ideal.

I even managed a scull yesterday, first one in ages and the steering and balance weren't too bad despite the wind - am spending too much time coaching to actually row.  The squad did their 2k tests last night and everyone except 1 got a PB, so I can't ask much more.. Here's a clip of the 4 that are racing at Nottingham in 10 days on their first outing: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Djpzid-hBmY  the woman at 2 (white t-shirt, second from the right) has only been rowing for about a year, I'm really pleased with how she's doing.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: simonp on May 17, 2018, 01:45:29 pm
Did same st 1:48.8 yesterday evening, r29.

It’s supposed to be 6x500m but I felt sick after the 5th and didn’t want to find out what would happen if I did another.


:D  sounds ideal.

I even managed a scull yesterday, first one in ages and the steering and balance weren't too bad despite the wind - am spending too much time coaching to actually row.  The squad did their 2k tests last night and everyone except 1 got a PB, so I can't ask much more.. Here's a clip of the 4 that are racing at Nottingham in 10 days on their first outing: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Djpzid-hBmY  the woman at 2 (white t-shirt, second from the right) has only been rowing for about a year, I'm really pleased with how she's doing.

First outing? Not bad at all.

We did our first outing for our 4+ for Monmouth last week Thursday. We hadn't got the boat sitting at that stage which led to some frustration particularly from stroke. 4 water sessions since then and we're in a bigger, faster boat, and it's coming together. We've also changed our start sequence, and it seems to work better.

Out on the water this evening for a pair of 2-2-2-1 up 2s and then we're doing double session Saturday with another work session followed by 12km UT2.

My sculling has improved a lot this year as I've spent some time in the stable single. Being told it's time to try a fine single but will leave it until after Monmouth.

I'm interested* to find out how the new competition framework is going to work. Last year was mostly racing at IM3 due to one guy in our squad having a point. This year, no clue. I think under the old system we have 7 points in our boat as 3 seat is more experienced. But under the new system, I have 20 points and he has only 10 due to not having raced last year.

* Suspect it will be chaotic.

Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: mike on May 17, 2018, 03:57:03 pm

I'm interested* to find out how the new competition framework is going to work.

* Suspect it will be chaotic.

Yes. I had more points than the stroke of our first mens 4 thanks to a 3rd place in our category at vets 4s head last year - he'd raced and won at senior 1 level...   We're expecting every regatta this season to be a complete lottery, except for things like the Met which is finals based on a timetrial and HRR which is 'different'.   A lot of the cambridge events have ignored both and developed their own honour-based system so you chose your own categories based on how good you think you are!
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: simonp on May 26, 2018, 08:48:03 pm
Great start to our regatta season. Beat Swansea Uni, Staines Boat Club and Bath Uni to win the Open 4+ 1500m at Monmouth today.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: mike on May 27, 2018, 11:12:11 am
Fantastic. I wondered if you were at Nottingham - lots of your clubmates here...
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: simonp on May 27, 2018, 11:43:55 am
Fantastic. I wondered if you were at Nottingham - lots of your clubmates here...

Probably Bristol City?

Currently sitting in the beer tent not allowed on the water due to thunder. We have a rematch with Staines in the 750m semi final then if we beat that either Cardiff Uni or Monmouth School in the final. We lost to Monmouth last year with a much weaker line up. Hopefully we will get to race.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: simonp on May 27, 2018, 08:10:43 pm
Fantastic. I wondered if you were at Nottingham - lots of your clubmates here...

Probably Bristol City?

Currently sitting in the beer tent not allowed on the water due to thunder. We have a rematch with Staines in the 750m semi final then if we beat that either Cardiff Uni or Monmouth School in the final. We lost to Monmouth last year with a much weaker line up. Hopefully we will get to race.

We lost that one - we had the worse start this time. Staines were the toughest race yesterday and were likely a lot fresher today as we raced 3 rounds vs their one yesterday.

Winning yesterday was probably above expectations so losing today keeps us grounded.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: simonp on May 31, 2018, 09:50:52 pm
2K test tonight 7:17.1. 10s improvement since last month. 4s shy of a PB.

10s improvement next month?
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: simonp on June 04, 2018, 11:06:44 pm
So tonight’s outing was my first in a fine single. I didn’t fall in but I didn’t get far. Pottered around near the club and tried some things. Very nervy at times. Relaxing is easier said than done.

I think the slides were too far forwards which caused me issues. It’s booked again for Thursday and will hopefully get the boat set up a bit better.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: mike on June 07, 2018, 02:04:59 pm
it feels ridiculous but the confidence drills the juniors spend hours doing make a huge difference to how fast you feel happy in a single - rigger dips, rollups, standing up, stuff like that.  (says me who fell in last week - not paying attention during a piece, clipped a mud-bank with my left blade, straight in over the right hand side...)
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: simonp on June 07, 2018, 02:53:09 pm
I might need to sub into a double tonight instead. Phew!

I remember my first time in a double - that was scary. But then people were like “You went out with Bartosz? No wonder it was scary!”

Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: simonp on June 09, 2018, 06:39:12 pm
We had a nice outing in the double. Got up to r28 and split down as low as 2:04 on the stroke coach. Feeling more confident.

Meanwhile, this https://www.britishrowing.org/power8challenge/ is a 350m erg challenge.

I tried it after our water session (3x1000m) and weights this morning, did 1:02.8. So far three people at our club have gone faster.

I doubt I could get to 1:00, it would require 15% more power an I doubt even when fresh I can do that.

The Power8s sprints event is in Bristol. Should be a fun watch.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: simonp on July 02, 2018, 08:35:46 am
Ironbridge Regatta.

Saturday open 4+ 1000m division 2 runner-up.

Sunday open 4+ 500m division 1 winners.

Not a bad weekend’s work.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: mike on July 09, 2018, 03:42:10 pm
I've been spectating at Henley for the last couple of days, all a bit sweaty but some great rowing.

The filming they're doing now is incredible with multiple cameras and an enormous drone, the highlights reel for the finals is 15 minutes but if you only watch one race then the single sculls which starts at 4.01 into the video is a belter!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jB0s8YsCofY


Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: simonp on July 15, 2018, 09:37:35 pm
Another win at Llandaff sprint today.

Beat local rivals City of Bristol in semi-final. That was a fairly easy win, they are a development crew. The final was Cardiff Uni. They were big guys and seemed quite cocky. We beat them by 1/3 length.

Next up: Peterborough Regatta and a chance for some multi lane racing.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: Chris S on July 15, 2018, 09:55:14 pm
 :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: chrisbainbridge on July 15, 2018, 10:02:25 pm
 :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: mike on July 16, 2018, 10:19:26 pm
 :thumbsup:

see you at peterborough!
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: simonp on July 16, 2018, 11:27:28 pm
:thumbsup:

see you at peterborough!

 ;D


Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: simonp on August 07, 2018, 08:55:52 pm
:thumbsup:

see you at peterborough!

Are you racing or there in a coaching capacity?

We’ve entered our 4+ in Masters A/B and Open on Saturday and Open on Sunday. There was no competition in masters on Sunday.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: mike on August 08, 2018, 10:17:02 pm
:thumbsup:

see you at peterborough!

Are you racing or there in a coaching capacity?

We’ve entered our 4+ in Masters A/B and Open on Saturday and Open on Sunday. There was no competition in masters on Sunday.


they're threatening to make me sub in on sunday, but I'll probably just be coaching!   

If I do race it'll be in a band 2 coxed 4, possibly the one in the same heat as you!! (I dont know which one yet)
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: mike on August 09, 2018, 01:33:33 pm
update:  I am subbing in, but in a later heat.  See you in the final!
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: simonp on August 09, 2018, 03:15:23 pm
update:  I am subbing in, but in a later heat.  See you in the final!

Haha, excellent!
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: simonp on August 12, 2018, 05:57:19 pm
Well we didn’t make the final on Sunday - the draw was very unkind to us. Across three heats the fastest three boats were all in our heat and we were third fastest. Only one boat in the other heats was anywhere near as fast as us.

On Saturday in the 1000m we did however make the final and came second to a very strong Peterborough crew. Multi lane racing is great, we should do more of it. And having timings means we have a much better idea of how we measure up against the better crews. I don’t think I’ve ever come off the water feeling as knackered as after Saturday’s final.

It was good to catch up Mike.  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: ElyDave on August 16, 2018, 05:19:25 pm
used my C2 on Monday for the second time this year

3 x 10 min with 2 min rest, HR to 150.  Legs were much happier than when I took them out for a run yesterday.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: simonp on August 27, 2018, 11:17:46 am
So yesterday was first title defence at a regatta, having won our first pot at Gloucester last year.

We found out that local rivals City of Bristol had sent 3 4s to the event - with only 5 boats in the draw in total - and we haven't raced City much. The word on the grapevine was that they expected their best crew (who we faced in the first round) to beat us.

That is not how it played out - it was our easiest race of the day. However we then got off the water to find their next crew was already coming to boat check, giving us no break between races. As it was cold and raining and windy we were very cold by the time we lined up on the start - further delayed by canal traffic - we were shivering. That was a closer race but we were through to the final against Gloucester who had beaten the third City crew.

On we went to a length win against Gloucester. The tannoy announced that they'd found my Oakleys and would not be returning them if we won. "Just kidding I love you guys - shoutout to Billy Sardar [our captain]". On we went to a length win in the worst conditions of the day. Going to Peterborough and racing there probably helped with that, though this was wetter, colder and windier but on a smaller body of water.

The guy helping me out of the boat afterwards turned out to be the dad of one of the opposition crew. Apparently his son has only been rowing for 11 months and they gave us a good race.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: Chris S on August 27, 2018, 06:38:42 pm
 :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: ElyDave on September 20, 2018, 03:53:20 pm
short of time today, 30 minute lunchtime erg session, sweaty.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: simonp on September 30, 2018, 11:07:40 am
Best crew award at the annual dinner for our coxed 4.  ;D
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: chrisbainbridge on September 30, 2018, 06:23:00 pm
congratulations
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: simonp on October 02, 2018, 05:50:54 pm
congratulations

Two of the same crew (me included) were in the coxed 4 that won the dolphin award last year, so this is an improvement.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: Marco Stefano on October 09, 2018, 12:57:24 pm
Congrats on the award, simonp.  :thumbsup:

I might be an outlier in this thread as it's more cycling that's cross training for rowing... Anyway, spurred on by marshalling at British Masters this year I have a race licence again and am racing at Bedford Head this Sunday (Mas C Mixed 2x), with a view to entering British Masters next year.. Not too many outings for us over the summer, but it's a useful baseline, and our club (Isle of Ely) is attending anyway so it's easy.

I won't think it's easy during the race - will have the usual thoughts of 'why?' and 'I've paid good money to do this'. Anyone else entered?
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: simonp on October 09, 2018, 01:02:12 pm
Congrats on the award, simonp.  :thumbsup:

I might be an outlier in this thread as it's more cycling that's cross training for rowing... Anyway, spurred on by marshalling at British Masters this year I have a race licence again and am racing at Bedford Head this Sunday (Mas C Mixed 2x), with a view to entering British Masters next year.. Not too many outings for us over the summer, but it's a useful baseline, and our club (Isle of Ely) is attending anyway so it's easy.

I won't think it's easy during the race - will have the usual thoughts of 'why?' and 'I've paid good money to do this'. Anyone else entered?

Good luck!

Not racing at Bedford; we're racing Gloucester Autumn Head (both morning and afternoon divsions) on the 28th.

Nearly every head race I've ever entered has been canceled due to adverse weather, so I've only done one so far.

Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: simonp on October 13, 2018, 05:16:38 pm
Went out in fine single today. After previous attempt didn’t go well - badly set up boat - it was a productive outing and I did probably 4-5km. A small milestone. Now need to work on getting a bit more confident so I can train effectively at UT2.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: CrazyEnglishTriathlete on October 16, 2018, 10:33:45 am
Am back on the Concept II.  Only have 40 seconds to make up to equal last years PB for 5000m and 1min 15 secs to reach a life time PB.  Suspect the latter is out of reach.  That curse of max heart rate being 220 - Age is starting to tell.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: simonp on October 16, 2018, 11:14:04 am
Am back on the Concept II.  Only have 40 seconds to make up to equal last years PB for 5000m and 1min 15 secs to reach a life time PB.  Suspect the latter is out of reach.  That curse of max heart rate being 220 - Age is starting to tell.

Winter challenge at our club is 20@20.

Not had a go yet - but some of the dev squad, who are likely 20 years younger than me have posted distances in the 4600-4700m range. I'm hoping for >5000m.

Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: Marco Stefano on October 16, 2018, 12:48:34 pm
Am back on the Concept II.  Only have 40 seconds to make up to equal last years PB for 5000m and 1min 15 secs to reach a life time PB.  Suspect the latter is out of reach.  That curse of max heart rate being 220 - Age is starting to tell.

First race for several years last weekend over 2km; max HR 204, age 57. Either I have the heart of a 16 year-old, or the formula is crap. This was from a Garmin vivoactive 3, wrist-mounted - I know they are not as accurate as chest belts, but still.  :o

(We were not fast, either.  :-[  More training required.)
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: simonp on October 16, 2018, 12:53:21 pm
My heart rate was measured with a chest strap at 194 earlier this year. Apparently I’m 26, not 46.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: Chris S on October 16, 2018, 01:02:09 pm
I'm 58, my measured max is 194 (two weeks ago), and RHR bounces around between 55 and 65. HR formulae are crap.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: CrazyEnglishTriathlete on October 16, 2018, 09:14:35 pm
Am back on the Concept II.  Only have 40 seconds to make up to equal last years PB for 5000m and 1min 15 secs to reach a life time PB.  Suspect the latter is out of reach.  That curse of max heart rate being 220 - Age is starting to tell.

Winter challenge at our club is 20@20.

Not had a go yet - but some of the dev squad, who are likely 20 years younger than me have posted distances in the 4600-4700m range. I'm hoping for >5000m.

I might need to give that a go - I usually row at a rate of 24 or 25 on the Concept II so it shouldn't be too much of an adjustment to try 20.  I'd hope to still get under 19 minutes for 5000 metres at 24/25 so would like to think I could get close to 5000m in 20@20.  Although it would be hard to resist the temptation to blast the last 300m as usual.

Interesting to see others' views on HR.  I wasn't trusting my Garmin when it said I reached 190 but perhaps I'm not as old as I feel.   ;D
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: simonp on November 03, 2018, 08:13:32 pm
Another achievement unlocked today - first time in a pair. No rudder so just called it from bow. Got to blades off and far better outing than expected. \o/

Video was taken so will be nice to see how it looked.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: simonp on November 15, 2018, 01:32:48 pm
Last night we did 20@20. I did 5063m which in our squad puts me 6th. Keeps me in contention for a seat in the 8. I rode a 200k on fixed on Saturday and don’t think I’ve recovered from that yet. Can hopefully add a bit when fresher.

Next week it’s 1000m@24.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: ElyDave on November 16, 2018, 07:31:19 am
Am back on the Concept II.  Only have 40 seconds to make up to equal last years PB for 5000m and 1min 15 secs to reach a life time PB.  Suspect the latter is out of reach.  That curse of max heart rate being 220 - Age is starting to tell.

Winter challenge at our club is 20@20.

Not had a go yet - but some of the dev squad, who are likely 20 years younger than me have posted distances in the 4600-4700m range. I'm hoping for >5000m.

I might need to give that a go - I usually row at a rate of 24 or 25 on the Concept II so it shouldn't be too much of an adjustment to try 20.  I'd hope to still get under 19 minutes for 5000 metres at 24/25 so would like to think I could get close to 5000m in 20@20.  Although it would be hard to resist the temptation to blast the last 300m as usual.

Interesting to see others' views on HR.  I wasn't trusting my Garmin when it said I reached 190 but perhaps I'm not as old as I feel.   ;D

It's a lot of an adjustment to stick at 20spm for 20 mins, it's a particularly punishing workout as every stroke is maximal with not quite enough rest inbetween.

I've never rowed on the water, but back when I was less itinerant for work, I used to put in 1million plus meters a year on one of these things. 20r20 was always nasty, at least with a 2k the pain was over quicker.

At the moment with my recent injury I'm walking and swimming, and thinking the C2 is the next step in non-weight bearing exercise, depending how painful it is around the pelvis.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: simonp on November 21, 2018, 10:08:35 pm
1k r24 this evening. 3:33.1. I hate rate capped ergs.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: CrazyEnglishTriathlete on November 24, 2018, 10:54:04 am
Signed up for the Concept 2 holiday challenge today.  100,000m between midnight on November 22 and December 24th.

8000m taken steady today, trying to keep the 500m split pace at 1:59.  Just 91978m to go.

Anyone else going to give it a go.  One of the charities is Word Bicycle Relief.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: simonp on November 24, 2018, 04:51:41 pm
We went at Wycliffe today, 17-18km in the 8. Better water than we’re used to but more windy. Getting up at Audax o’clock is required.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: simonp on November 25, 2018, 04:11:07 pm
And a paddle in a single again today. Need to work on my hand heights and confidence around the catch.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: CrazyEnglishTriathlete on November 26, 2018, 10:42:39 pm
Managed 10000m after work, again keeping to a steady pace, so that's 18022 of 100000m done so far.  Will try another 10k on Wednesday evening and hopefully same again on Friday.  Judging by the way I finished the club run on Sunday, it's having some effect as I was able to tow the group into a headwind the full 8 miles back from Overton, which is not normal.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: simonp on November 26, 2018, 11:12:11 pm
Don’t think I’ll be doing this. I limit myself to one erg a week usually.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: Chris S on November 27, 2018, 08:51:22 am
Don’t think I’ll be doing this. I limit myself to one erg a week usually.

There's a new 100,000m record apparently. One to consider for a stormy winter's evening perhaps?  ;)

From what I could tell, the Finnish Freak who got the record rode 1:48 splits for six hours  :o.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: fboab on November 27, 2018, 10:17:55 am
Signed up for the Concept 2 holiday challenge today.  100,000m between midnight on November 22 and December 24th.

This is my 3rd year at it.
It's much more difficult with a sprained ankle and a chest infection, but at least this morning's effort had my splits at <3 minutes. Which is an improvement on the weekend where I thought I was going to choke with coughing and 2000m took almost 15 minutes.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: simonp on November 27, 2018, 11:06:29 am
Don’t think I’ll be doing this. I limit myself to one erg a week usually.

There's a new 100,000m record apparently. One to consider for a stormy winter's evening perhaps?  ;)

From what I could tell, the Finnish Freak who got the record rode 1:48 splits for six hours  :o.

1:48 - I am not much faster than that for 2K.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: CrazyEnglishTriathlete on November 28, 2018, 09:26:16 pm
24/11 - 8022m
26/11 - 10000m
28/11 - 7714m

Am going to have a go an a hour row on Friday morning, and if that goes well might consider the carrot of 200,000m in the holiday challenge. 
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: CrazyEnglishTriathlete on December 09, 2018, 05:54:42 pm
 B_ Lurgy

Thought I was over it.  But aimed for an hour today and gave up after 32 minutes because the power just dropped.  The carrot of 200,000m is now dangled too far out of reach and the stick of 100,000m is catching up fast.  Still 8122m makes 33,858 so am over 1/3 distance.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: simonp on December 09, 2018, 06:21:56 pm
Brutal challenge really at this time of year. December is a quiet month at the rowing club. I’m using the break to push on with my cycling and strength work.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: fboab on December 11, 2018, 03:49:48 pm
It shouldn't be brutal- you have to do less than 3500m a day.
It's every day that's the killer.
I've missed the last couple of days as well as a few early (lurgied, injured) ones and now need almost 5,000 a day. It'll be tough.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: Salvatore on December 14, 2018, 08:06:01 pm
I probably go the gym 3 times a week on average, but row 10,000 m every time I'm there. I'm up to 83,000 in the challenge, so the end is in sight, but I'd like to reach 100,000 before the $45,000 donation limit is reached, so a massive $2 goes to my selected charity.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: Gattopardo on December 14, 2018, 08:15:50 pm
Anyone want a tunturi r710 rowing machine?  Collection N22 in London?
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: CrazyEnglishTriathlete on December 15, 2018, 05:39:53 pm
May not make the 100,000.  Work got in the way this week.  But I did manage the hour today.  15142m.  Happy.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: Salvatore on December 17, 2018, 10:27:42 pm
100,000 challenge completed today. Just over 101,000 in fact, so that's $2.04 to World Bicycle relief.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: simonp on January 07, 2019, 08:59:50 pm
Brutal weights session tonight. Endurance => 2x50 reps. Owww. Fuck 50 sit ups in particular.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: simonp on January 18, 2019, 11:15:31 am
After that weights session I failed to complete the 3x3000m:5r erg two days later.

Had another go this week - got through it but thought I was going to need a bucket with about 250m to go. Made it and didn't vomit.

This is preparation for a 5k test next week.

 :sick:

Also we have a 5k private head race tomorrow, we're off first, followed by intermediate men's 8 and then senior women's 8. So no pressure!
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: simonp on January 19, 2019, 02:23:42 pm
Always nice to be in the fastest boat in the club.  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: simonp on January 26, 2019, 06:08:51 pm
So today I was out in a single second session. Not been out in one in more than a month; it showed.

I needn't have worried, though. It was the pair that went in and had to be rescued.  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: simonp on February 02, 2019, 03:41:26 pm
I did a 5K on the 24th 19:36.9.

Did another one this morning before breakfast; 19:34.3. Better paced but still felt horrible for most of it.

That is a 4.5 year PB so fairly pleased - still some way short of my best effort from 2011, though.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: mike on March 29, 2019, 03:22:02 pm
I've snuck out in the single a few times in the last fortnight and it's *amazing* to be back on the water :D

A long way off being race fit, but loving loving loving being out.  Probably fall in next time.

Title: Re: Cross Training: Rowing
Post by: simonp on March 29, 2019, 07:19:51 pm
I've snuck out in the single a few times in the last fortnight and it's *amazing* to be back on the water :D

A long way off being race fit, but loving loving loving being out.  Probably fall in next time.

Nice. I’ve been slowly improving. Little time to get in the single sight the focus having been on the 8. Stepped back now to concentrate on PBP. I was asked to sub into a 4+ on Monday but declined due to having done a hilly 200 on Saturday and being knackered. Correct decision - I’d have had a miserable time.

Once PBP qualifiers are out the way I’ll try to get out in small boats - I’ve enjoyed the few outings in the pair more than the single but maybe should try to make progress as the skills are transferable.