Yet Another Cycling Forum

General Category => Freewheeling => The Dark Side => Topic started by: Kim on March 29, 2011, 02:21:16 pm

Title: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: Kim on March 29, 2011, 02:21:16 pm
Through popular request, it's own thread:

I've just phoned one Kevin of D-Tek to see about going to play with some barakta-friendly trikes next week[1], and he recognised me.  And I don't mean in the "are you Charlotte?" sense, either.  I've only met him once!

Should I fear?  Or just bury my credit cards under 6ft of reinforced concrete?



[1] Muhahahaha

What is this doing hiding in this thread?  Surely there should be flashing lights, and party poppers, and dancing girls, and a brass band for this is Good_News. 


Well, Kevin called me back this morning to confirm, and I've just booked the hire of a CAR (we're liable to die of old age if we attempt this one by train), so we're officially going to Little Thetford for some trikey goodness next Tuesday   :thumbsup:


Quote
And of course he remembers you - witnessed the purchasing of Priscilla, didn't you?

Of course!  He was gawping from the sidelines while I got oily with Regulator and his impressive collection of chains.


Quote
Tell barakta from me she has to find something that suits, cos going on a WARTY with barakta is one of the things on my little list for 2011.... and I seem to be ticking things off said list relatively efficiently  ;)

I don't see it being too tricky.  We're basically after something akin to Tigerbiten's control setup, which is all standard parts, but with a handlebar adapted for short reach on the left.  Should be possible to do that without too much effort on most kinds of trike.  I'm more concerned about something that'll fit through a doorway and on a train without excessive silliness, tbh.

I think barakta's enthusiasm reached the right level last week, when I showed her a video of a train of Kettwiesels.  "Can we get two?" she said.    ::-)
Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: Quint on March 29, 2011, 02:29:08 pm
Strongly recommend the Sprint, and it folds into quite a small package, I have the 26" and Barbara has the 20" rear wheels, also if they have any NT frames left it will fit through anywhere (the standard width isn't shabby either). Bloody marvelous and IMHO more stable than a Delta set up
Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: rower40 on March 29, 2011, 03:58:00 pm

(we're liable to die of old age if we attempt this one by train)
Mordor Central to The Dead Marshes Ely is a direct train, every hour, journey time 2h30.  Not R17 speeds, but perfectly serviceable.  Then you would need a taxi from Ely station to Thettle Litford.

Anyway, enjoy your hire car, dancing girls and n+2 shopping. :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: Kim on March 29, 2011, 06:03:07 pm
Mordor Central to The Dead Marshes Ely is a direct train, every hour, journey time 2h30.  Not R17 speeds, but perfectly serviceable.  Then you would need a taxi from Ely station to Thettle Litford.

Plus half an hour of arsing about (which may involve a *shudder* bus) to get to Mordor Central.  So 6-7 hours of travelling, some of which involves active moving around, balance and hearing.  While barakta *could* do it, she won't have any spoons (http://www.butyoudontlooksick.com/articles/written-by-christine/the-spoon-theory-written-by-christine-miserandino/) left to play with potential n+1s, and would probably need a couple of days of doing not-very-much-at-all to recover.

There's also a non-zero risk of that train being utterly crammed with airport passengers (and associated luggage).  I stood (well, half perched on the Streetmachine, there wasn't really enough floor space to stand properly) all the way to Ely for the Mildenhall rally last year.  While barakta can probably wrangle a seat on disability grounds, in the absence of an obvious mobility aid, that tends to be Hassle.

If it were just me, I'd use the train, but a car works out marginally cheaper for the pair of us (even with a disabled railcard and the increasingly silly price of petrol) and should let us do in about 2 hours door-to-door.
Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: cyclone on March 29, 2011, 06:12:18 pm
Have you buried the CC yet?? He is very persuasive....... :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: Kim on March 29, 2011, 06:15:27 pm
Have you buried the CC yet?? He is very persuasive....... :thumbsup:

The car hire company informed me of the flaw in that plan...   ;)
Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: teethgrinder on March 29, 2011, 06:17:49 pm
Of course!  He was gawping from the sidelines while I got oily with Regulator and his impressive collection of chains.


POTD

fnar, fnar!

 ;D
Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: Red on March 29, 2011, 06:39:17 pm
Well, Kevin called me back this morning to confirm, and I've just booked the hire of a CAR (we're liable to die of old age if we attempt this one by train), so we're officially going to Little Thetford for some trikey goodness next Tuesday   :thumbsup:

Be sure to bung a bike in the boot for an emergency in case you break down in the middle of Skegness rush hour traffic Little Thetford and need to make a hasty escape for the sake of your poor wallet. ::-) ;D
Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: Kim on March 29, 2011, 06:58:26 pm
Be sure to bung a trike in the boot for an emergency in case you break down in the middle of Skegness rush hour traffic Little Thetford and need to make a hasty escape for the sake of your poor wallet. ::-) ;D

FTFY...   ;D
Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: Tigerbiten on March 30, 2011, 02:19:22 pm
Here's more info on hows my trikes setup.

The front BB7 disk brakes are controled by a tamden brake lever.
The single lever pulls both brake cables.
It can be a bit of a pain getting both brakes balanced so they work evenly after renewing pads/cables, but its not bad.
The only downside is there is a risk of burning calipersout/heat warping disk rotors on long steep twisty decents where you need to stay on the brakes to keep control. Normally you could rest one brake while useing the other.
But my Trice is stable with only one front brake working, if you expect it.

The gears are worked off bar-end shifters.
The back is in the standard place.
The front is on a spur made up of two bar-ends.
There's just enough room to get my hand inbetween the main handle-bar and the bar-end to get the brake lever if needed.

One thing you could do is use two bar-ends, one back one up, to move the handle-bar around three inches back.
But you may have to play around with angles to keep the lock the same on both sides.

Luck .......... :D
Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: LittleWheelsandBig on March 30, 2011, 02:24:17 pm
Interesting, I know a one-armed MTBer who used a lower arm prosthesis on the left and on the right had two brake levers (a 2 finger and a 4 finger), rear twistgrip shifter and front thumbshifter. He was pretty fast offroad.
Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: Kim on March 30, 2011, 03:15:18 pm
Thanks for that, some good ideas there.

Gears should be straightforward, either bar end + twist-grip or two bar-ends.  I don't think we can justify the expensive german hub gear approach.  Barakta seems fine with both types of shifter.  I suppose having the front mech on a twist-grip would avoid the need for a spur.

Both front brakes on one lever, obviously.  Though the two and four finger levers together approach is interesting, that presumably lends itself to a one-or-both operation, which is better suited to two-wheelers.

I suppose it would be possible to have a rear drag/parking brake somewhere where she could tweak it with the left hand.  Unlike a prosthetic, she has approximately one and a half useful fingers on the left hand, which might be enough to work a cunningly-positioned friction shifter infrequently.  I'll stick the Streetmachine on the trainer and see if she can work the front mech.  Realistically, I don't see her doing much in the way of brake-sizzling descents for a while, though, so that sort of thing can be added later.

Good idea about using bar-ends to extend the reach.  That's probably about the right amount, too.  Would also make it a simple one-minute allen key job to rotate it to the other side to make the controls Kim-friendly, which is a bonus.

There's also the Catrike option, which would make different amounts of reach trivial.  I think she'll prefer the steering of the Trice, though.  I certainly do.
Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: mrcharly-YHT on March 30, 2011, 03:19:50 pm
I think bar-end gear shifters give you the option of extending the size of the shifter - making it longer and bigger, so B could have the option of using her 'weak' hand for shifting.

My wife has arthritis and finds twist shifters very difficult once the cable is a bit sticky. Go for something that gives you leverage.
Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: LittleWheelsandBig on March 30, 2011, 03:33:17 pm
The two brake levers allowed each brake to be operated by a different finger. The 4 finger lever was needed to reach past the 2 finger lever.
I modified a standard 4 finger brake lever to pull 2 brake cables for a one-armed lady to ride her hybrid. The long barrel adjusters made it easy to balance the brakes and the long lever made it easier to pull for a ladylike grip strength.
Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: Kim on March 30, 2011, 03:47:16 pm
The two brake levers allowed each brake to be operated by a different finger. The 4 finger lever was needed to reach past the 2 finger lever.

Ah, I see.  That *is* clever.


Quote
I modified a standard 4 finger brake lever to pull 2 brake cables for a one-armed lady to ride her hybrid. The long barrel adjusters made it easy to balance the brakes and the long lever made it easier to pull for a ladylike grip strength.

I'm a fan of 4-finger levers generally, though I don't really have a shortage of grip strength.  I suppose it's mainly what I'm used to, and I don't see any significant advantage in two-finger levers.  You can comfortably work a 4-finger lever with two fingers when desired if the brakes are correctly adjusted.

They're also vastly superior if you're mounting them vertically upwards on an under-seat-steering bar, as it means you can reach the lever properly with your stronger fingers without changing hand position.
Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: Kim on March 30, 2011, 03:55:21 pm
I think bar-end gear shifters give you the option of extending the size of the shifter - making it longer and bigger, so B could have the option of using her 'weak' hand for shifting.

Barakta's issues are more range of motion than strength.  She has truly terrifying amounts of strength in motions that most people never normally use (eg. she'll clamp things between the knuckles of her little and ring fingers with the sort of force most of us would get from thumb + index.)  Stock bar end shifters should be absolutely fine with her right hand.  Twist-grip might be a wrist-fatigue issue, but she's ridden my folding BSO with grip shifter without trouble, and if it's controlling the front mech, she shouldn't need to use it very often.

Extending a bar-end shifter could be a good way of making a drag-brake more controllable by her left hand though.
Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: redshift on March 30, 2011, 04:02:33 pm
I'm going to get shot for this, I know - it's not really a plug for Mike Burrows / Bob Dixon honest, but if Barakta's need for singlehanded control is strong, she should try a Windcheetah if she hasn't already.  She'll know in about 10 seconds whether it's right for her or not.

I usually pilot mine one handed, although not through need, and it can be piloted either hand.  It uses standard Dura Ace bar end shifter levers.  Don't be fooled by sitting static in it and trying to turn the joystick.  The steering's incredibly heavy when standing, and incredibly light when rolling.

Of course, it's also expensive, heavy on tyres, hard to park, completely nonstandard, has a seat you either love or hate, and you need to prepare for long nights of wrangling widgets to fit it...  ::-)
Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: nashd on March 30, 2011, 04:22:49 pm
Unlike Redshift, I don’t have many miles on my Windcheetah, but I don’t think I could control it very well with one hand.  I find I can steer it with one hand, but then need to use the other to either change gear or brake, depending on which hand I’m steering with.  However, that’s just me, and I’m probably not as dextrous as others.  It’s certainly worth a go, though.

The Greenspeed SLR (not suitable for road use) has an interesting steering arrangement – an upright bar on the right hand side which you push forward or pull backwards to turn right or left. There’s a fixed upright bar on the left hand side, merely for holding onto for support.  It might be possible to adapt other Greenspeeds to use the same system, although I suspect it might be an expensive custom order.
Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: Kim on March 30, 2011, 04:23:39 pm
Heh.  I'd like to get her on one, certainly - her reaction to looking at pictures of the controls is "eew", and I suspect the steering would involve a bit too much wrist/forearm in the position she's likely to be able to work it, but there's only one way to find out  :)

Expensive and custom isn't really a sensible option at this point - she's never really cycled due to the lack of an appropriate machine, so this is very much an exercise in getting her something she can actually ride safely and without damaging herself.  Expensive and custom can come later if she turns into a Cyclist and has niggly issues that can't resolved by shed-fettle solutions.  Keeping things reasonably standard means we can sell it on more easily if it doesn't work out.
Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: Tigerbiten on March 30, 2011, 04:33:05 pm
I find the steering on the ICE trike very light but very positive.

If you go the ICE route, I'd get in contact with them direct about moddifing an ICE trike to fit Barakta.

My BB7 parking brake is worked off a 7 speed gear changer which is clamped to the handle-bar well below the brake lever.
It doesn't work very well as a drag brake due to the lack of weight on the back wheel.
It takes a fine balance to stop the back wheel from just skidding while getting any type of braking action.
It will stop me but I need well over 10x the distance of the front brakes.

If you want to see my ICE trike in the flesh, I can easily drive over to Little Thetford on tuesday as I'm based in Northampton.

Luck ............ :D
Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: Charlotte on March 30, 2011, 05:00:28 pm
I know next to bugger all about trikes, so can offer no useful advice.  Nonetheless...

Barakta'sgettingatrikeBarakta'sgettingatrike!!!

*happydance*

:D
Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: redshift on March 30, 2011, 06:53:47 pm
Heh.  I'd like to get her on one, certainly - her reaction to looking at pictures of the controls is "eew", and I suspect the steering would involve a bit too much wrist/forearm in the position she's likely to be able to work it, but there's only one way to find out  :)

How can I put this?  Ok, the joystick's on a UJ, so the first misnomer is that it's actually a joystick.  If it had a steering wheel on it like a car that would convey it a little better, but it's a yaw/rotational control, not a roll/pitch thing.  I do use my wrist, but I use more force to open a door.
Secondly, when I say it's 'light' when moving, I mean that for most normal riding if you 'steer', you'll lift the inside wheel and dump it.  'Steer' kind of means look in the direction you want to go and your Jedi_like use of The Force twisting the stick the tiniest bit will send the trike where you want it.  I'm not making this up.  Proper corners are an exception, where you have to steer, perhaps on an adverse camber, and then it becomes interesting in the "Ogodogodwe'reallgonnadie' meaning of the word.  Mr Larrington's pages describe this better, especially picture three of this page (http://www.legslarry.beerdrinkers.co.uk/mags/BMSep83_04.htm).

Quote
Expensive and custom isn't really a sensible option at this point - she's never really cycled due to the lack of an appropriate machine, so this is very much an exercise in getting her something she can actually ride safely and without damaging herself.  Expensive and custom can come later if she turns into a Cyclist and has niggly issues that can't resolved by shed-fettle solutions.  Keeping things reasonably standard means we can sell it on more easily if it doesn't work out.

Of course.  Speedies can be cut down for sizing - I took mine to Bob after buying it secondhand, and he knocked about 75-100mm off the boom for me - but can't easily be extended, so once they're cut down that's it.  They're supposed to keep their value, but in some cases, that can also mean 'unsellable.'
Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: Arellcat on March 30, 2011, 08:07:57 pm
Secondly, when I say it's 'light' when moving, I mean that for most normal riding if you 'steer', you'll lift the inside wheel and dump it.  'Steer' kind of means look in the direction you want to go and twisting the stick the tiniest bit will send the trike where you want it.

'Shifty is spot on.  To steer a Windcheetah while moving you need only hold the two ends of the yoke lightly between thumb and finger, and encourage and suggest the manoeuvre.  A rider called Martin Powell had lost the use of his right arm, and found the setup on a WC quite agreeable.  Changing gear, with the bar end levers mounted vertically, generally doesn't require much finger strength because you can use the thumb and the palm of the hand, and the length of the yoke is designed to place your hands approximately on your stomach, not stretched out or low down.

Quote
They're supposed to keep their value, but in some cases, that can also mean 'unsellable.'

Well, quite.  :)  :-\
Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: Kim on March 30, 2011, 08:27:01 pm
Thumbs are, unfortunately, not a standard item on a barakta, and the aftermarket version is never quite as well-integrated as the factory model.  Hence some non-standard joystick-holding would be required, in a way that may or may not actually work very well.  As I say, it'd be interesting to see, but I'm sceptical.

Avoiding too much "Ogodogodwe'reallgonnadie" would also be desirable.  I think we used up most of that karma on the upright tandem, and baraktas don't respond well to crash damage.
Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: Kim on March 30, 2011, 08:31:39 pm
I know next to bugger all about trikes, so can offer no useful advice.  Nonetheless...

Barakta'sgettingatrikeBarakta'sgettingatrike!!!

*happydance*


You can organise the brass band and dancing girls   ;)
Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: redshift on March 30, 2011, 08:42:39 pm
Hello Becky, long time no see!
Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: Cunobelin on March 30, 2011, 09:23:31 pm
Quickest and easiest idea for a drag brake is an old fashioned ratchet gear changer linked to the rear brake, with some ingenuity with cable runs the fitting position is versatile as well

On my old trice, I used this as a parking brake and it was fitted on the lower cross bar of the bars, but you can put it where you like, I have even seen one on the back of the seat!

They are often available from old spares bins

Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: tonycollinet on March 31, 2011, 12:10:12 am

It doesn't work very well as a drag brake due to the lack of weight on the back wheel.
It takes a fine balance to stop the back wheel from just skidding while getting any type of braking action.
It will stop me but I need well over 10x the distance of the front brakes.


I've got the standard V brake on the sprint as the rear parking brake. It works pretty well as a drag brake.


Have fun choosing. Kevin is great company.
Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: Arch on March 31, 2011, 09:44:36 am
Such fun!  Very glad to hear about imminent trike ownership!

I've got a feeling Barakta will take to it nicely.  Remember MFWHTBAB? He'd not ridden more than a few miles in the previous year, and after our spin along the planets, in spite of his knee pain, he's having all sorts of KMX upgrading thoughts, and when we were deciding what to do last Sunday, he said it was a shame my trike wasn't over there so we could go and ride together.... 

On the brake front, the only info I can offer is that my Catrike has front brakes only (so can be operated with one lever, but I get the point about being able to alternate to cool them), and I've never really put it in a position where I've panicked, and that's up to a max descent speed of 40mph. Choosing the right roads to let fly on is the key I think.
Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: Charlotte on March 31, 2011, 12:27:01 pm
You can organise the brass band and dancing girls   ;)

*gets on the phone*

Hello? (http://www.grimethorpeband.com)
I wonder if you can help me...? (http://www.tillergirls.com/)


:D
Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: Arch on March 31, 2011, 01:06:37 pm
You can organise the brass band and dancing girls   ;)

*gets on the phone*

Hello? (http://www.grimethorpeband.com)
I wonder if you can help me...? (http://www.tillergirls.com/)


:D


I've never been myself, but I'm imagining that lot turning up in Little Thetford, and smiling....
Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: clarion on March 31, 2011, 01:37:13 pm
Haha!  Love Is The Sweetest Thing.
Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: Quint on March 31, 2011, 01:52:39 pm
Love to see Kevins face   
                                         ;D
You can organise the brass band and dancing girls   ;)

*gets on the phone*

Hello? (http://www.grimethorpeband.com)
I wonder if you can help me...? (http://www.tillergirls.com/)


:D


I've never been myself, but I'm imagining that lot turning up in Little Thetford, and smiling....
Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: Kim on March 31, 2011, 01:55:13 pm
We did the impromptu occupational therapy assessment thing last night, with the aid of the Streetmachine, some pillows, turbo trainer, and a partially-unfolded BSO.

Rumours of barakta's compatibility with bar-end shifters appear to have been exaggerated.  They're just a bit too stiff, even for her right hand - she can get them to work, but not in a way that's particularly compatible with emergency downshifts or long-term avoidance of wrist pain.  Obviously extending the arm to get a bit more mechanical advantage would be an option.

Twist-grip appears to be the better option for the primary shifter, then.  Preferably a nice long grippy one, or one where there's a thick end, preferably at the thumb-end of the bar (which I think means mounting it upside-down - likely to be ugly cable wise, but not impossible).  Certain triangular grip-shift controlled gearing becomes an increasingly attractive option to everyone but my wallet, which is weeping in the corner.

Trigger shifters are still firmly in the "haha no" category: she can work them fine, but only in one direction.  Adding leverage to the thumb side of a trigger shifter seems silly, as it completely wrecks the ergonomics.  Stick to bar-ends for that.

I assume electronic shifting is the sort of unobtanium that makes expensive German hub gears seem sensible?  Unless I want to get fettly with some beefy R/C servos and a microcontroller, I suppose.  Anyone ever tried that?  Did it work?

Things look better in the brake lever department.  No problems with my bog standard 4-finger Tektro levers, given a bit of twiddling of the reach adjustment screw.  She can even sort-of work them with her left hand, though the issue there is that her fingers are permanently bent, so there's a fiddly shoulder-based unhook-from-bar-and-hook-round-the-lever motion that isn't compatible with braking in a hurry.  Might be viable for a rear brake used drag-brake style, though.


In other news, I got a garish email from Kevin including directions, which I diligently followed on Google streetview with a view to creating a waypoint on my trusty Garmin.  Of course, what I'd overlooked is that OpenStreetMap is frequently contributed to by the sort of people who have beards and a penchant for unconventional means of transportation...   ;D
Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: Quint on March 31, 2011, 02:19:40 pm
what I'd overlooked is that OpenStreetMap is frequently contributed to by the sort of people who have beards and a penchant for unconventional means of transportation...    


        Yup, that'd be me then  ;D

PS: I reckon once Kevin has sat and scratched his head he will come up with solutions, he's like that.
                                      :thumbsup:


 
  
 
Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: mrcharly-YHT on March 31, 2011, 02:25:14 pm
I'd like to add another vote for bar end levers. Apart from offering the cheap home-fettled 'fatgrip' option, they have one truly great advantage over twist grips. That is being able to tell which gear you are in, just by the angle of the lever. Brilliant when it is dark (and you wouldn't be able to see the gear indicators on twist grips).

Some twist shifters work by rotating the whole grip - the shifter can connect to a sleeve under the grip, so you can twist the whole thing, motorbike-throttle-style.
Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: Kim on March 31, 2011, 02:36:29 pm
I'd like to add another vote for bar end levers. Apart from offering the cheap home-fettled 'fatgrip' option, they have one truly great advantage over twist grips. That is being able to tell which gear you are in, just by the angle of the lever. Brilliant when it is dark (and you wouldn't be able to see the gear indicators on twist grips).

After getting into night-riding and discovering this problem, I solved it for the trigger shifters on my Dawes by dismantling the indicator part[1] and applying a sliver of retro-reflective tape to the needles.  Another piece of tape along the side of the window as a reference, and they're impossible to miss by the light of a head-torch on minimum brightness.

I don't think it would be rocket surgery to devise something similar for twist-grips, though I agree it is an inherent advantage of bar-ends.

Either way, that's very much a secondary concern to ergonomics.  There are an awful lot of things that barakta *can* do that she shouldn't do very often for risk of long-term damage, especially where hands and wrists and shoulders are involved.


Quote
Some twist shifters work by rotating the whole grip - the shifter can connect to a sleeve under the grip, so you can twist the whole thing, motorbike-throttle-style.

That sounds ideal, yes.



[1] Caution: trigger shifter position indicators may contain pingfuckits or traces of pingfuckits.  Do this on a well-lit tidy workbench, not a speckled living room carpet.
Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: mrcharly-YHT on March 31, 2011, 02:51:52 pm
Quote
Some twist shifters work by rotating the whole grip - the shifter can connect to a sleeve under the grip, so you can twist the whole thing, motorbike-throttle-style.

That sounds ideal, yes.

If that turns out to be a required solution, I think I have some NOS shifters of this type innaboxsumwhere
Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: Mr Larrington on March 31, 2011, 03:15:45 pm
Bar-ends can be operated using one's whole hand, which is what I do when I'm feeling lazy.  Most, if not all, current twist-grip shifters seem to have a twisty bit ~2" long, which may be sub-optimal.
Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: Kim on March 31, 2011, 03:33:15 pm
Bar-ends can be operated using one's whole hand, which is what I do when I'm feeling lazy.

I wasn't entirely clear: that's the only way she can get them to move, and not very easily on account of the wrist.  Her 'thumb' (being a pollicised index finger (https://yacf.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=38817.msg737669#msg737669)) strength is minimal.
Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: andygates on March 31, 2011, 03:52:53 pm
Bar end shifters are also easy to extend, with a bit of stuff and some bolts (or a bit of pipe, some araldite to pot it, and a comfy grip to cover).  That'll allow a very low-force and imprecise hand to work a fairly small stiff controller.
Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: Kim on March 31, 2011, 04:11:39 pm
or a bit of pipe, some araldite to pot it, and a comfy grip to cover

That's pretty much what I was thinking.  Though I'd probably go for some sort of bolt-based attachment, because Kim's First Law Of Fettling states that if you're using adhesives, you're probably doing it wrong.

...Actually, I reckon you could molish a pretty reasonable removable extension by cutting the pipe in half for the inch or so that covers the shifter, then filling the gap with appropriately-shaped wedges and securing it in place with a couple of those decent symmetrical-action hose clips you use for high-pressure fuel lines.  Just add foam/heatshrink/bar tape.

I'm leaning towards a possibly inverted, possibly full-length (indexed) grip shifter for the rear mech and an extended bar-end (friction) for the front, but we'll see how it goes on Tuesday when she actually tries to ride something.
Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: andygates on March 31, 2011, 04:16:16 pm
That all sounds wise. 

If you've got a funny space to wedge, then wrapping the lever in clingfilm, half-potting it, then re-filming and re-potting the other side works nicely.  A bar-end lever shouldn't be too funny though: I just like epoxy. 

Adhesives are one thing, reversibility is a whole other. 
Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: mrcharly-YHT on March 31, 2011, 04:18:22 pm
~You are doing it all wrong, if you are fettling with bolts and adhesives.

Cable ties, that's teh way to go.

joking aside, I was thinking of a handle ripped off a 'good grips' peeler or knife.  weatherproof, good grip, comfy, etc
Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: CrinklyLion on March 31, 2011, 04:19:18 pm
I have absolutely no idea about all this technical gubbins.  But I can do party poppers....


It's ver' exciting :)
Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: matthew on March 31, 2011, 04:31:51 pm
My first bike with gears (all five of them) had a down tube shifter that had been extended by cable tying on the handle of a tooth brush, to the lever.

I then had 'indexing' in that we put cable ties round the toptube in line with the gears!!
Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: Kim on March 31, 2011, 04:36:50 pm
Cable ties, that's teh way to go.

You're absolutely right.

The YACF department of Bastard Disability Mods From Hell proudly presents:

Spork'n'Shift™

(http://www.ductilebiscuit.net/gallery_albums/SMGT/IMG_2595.sized.jpg)

Quote from: British Journal of Occupational Therapy
What could possibly go wrong?

Quote from: Applied Ergonomics
Ain't no spack-handles on that bitch!  FUCK YEAH!!!

  ;D   :demon:
Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: barakta on March 31, 2011, 04:43:38 pm
*giggles* at Kim's latest fettleage.

I'd like to say how lovely it has been to see people's kind comments, generosity and sharing of ideas.  I'm full of the ill so haven't had much coherent to say other than I hope I'm better enough to make the most of my visit to DTek on Tuesday.
Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: CrinklyLion on March 31, 2011, 04:46:21 pm
The YACF department of Bastard Disability Mods From Hell proudly presents:

Spork'n'Shift™
Quote from: British Journal of Occupational Therapy
What could possibly go wrong?
Quote from: Applied Ergonomics
Ain't no spack-handles on that bitch!  FUCK YEAH!!!

  ;D   :demon:

C|N>K

(In a staffroom, with people watching and wondering what I was snorting unattractively about and everything!)
Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: clarion on March 31, 2011, 04:46:50 pm
Set the coordinates and shift to Spork Drive

Aye aye, Captain!
Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: Kim on March 31, 2011, 04:46:58 pm
*giggles* at Kim's latest fettleage.

The really sad thing is that it works surprisingly well.   :facepalm:


Quote
I'd like to say how lovely it has been to see people's kind comments, generosity and sharing of ideas.  I'm full of the ill so haven't had much coherent to say other than I hope I'm better enough to make the most of my visit to DTek on Tuesday.

+1
Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: clarion on March 31, 2011, 04:47:27 pm
Sporktastic!
Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: andygates on March 31, 2011, 04:50:00 pm
That's beautiful, but it needs little tiny corks on the tines.  Health and safety!  Think of the children!

(zipties > epoxy, bah!)

I'd like to say how lovely it has been to see people's kind comments, generosity and sharing of ideas.  I'm full of the ill so haven't had much coherent to say other than I hope I'm better enough to make the most of my visit to DTek on Tuesday.

We just love a challenge.  And bikes.  And probably most of us know at least one rider with a gimped something-or-other and a wacky mod.   :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: Arch on March 31, 2011, 05:11:02 pm
That's beautiful, but it needs little tiny corks on the tines.  Health and safety!  Think of the children!


Corks? Bah. Little cubes of cheese. Or Chocolate or pineapple, or other foodstuff depending on digestive ability.

Then you have emergency rations too.
Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: redshift on March 31, 2011, 11:06:26 pm
OK, so we have a prototype.  Now what we need is a dismantled Shimano shifter for the mount pattern, some nice light Ti bar, one of Mr Gates' friend Jarkman's kitchen table Proxxon CNC millers, a gas torch to do the pretty colours, and some ordinary household bleach*, and we have a plan!  :D


Seriously though, I really have to get the workshop built, don't I?  Custom length machined bar end shifters can't be that hard, can they?





*OK, I lied about the bleach, it's a Young Ones reference.
Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: TimO on April 01, 2011, 12:05:10 am
A modification to a Shimano Di2 changer could be an option, but given the groupset costs >£1500, you probably wouldn't want to go that route for experimenting (and hacking apart!)

I'm not convinced that you could get enough force to reliably make a derailleur change with a servo, and it may not respond as well to slight misalignments as a manual mechanical system (apparently the Di2 self calibrates, which is neat).

As far as I can see, the only currently commercially available electrical gear system is the Shimano one.  There have periodically been others over the years, but they've mostly died a death for one reason or other, which is a shame because this would be the sort of situation that they'd be ideal for.

Have you considered any of the possibilities of hub gears, or even single speed?  I suspect a single speed recumbent may not work all that well, since you can't really get out of the seat and honk like you can with an upwrong, but it might work on relatively flat roads.  Alternatively, you can limit the complications and issues of two derailleurs by only having, or only using one.  For a lot of the time you could possibly get away with the rear changer only, especially if you fitted a wide ratio cassette to it.

An S2C equipped recumbent would be an interesting approach though, since you'd avoid the need for a brake or changer (although you'd really want the brake to disappear from the front wheels, not the rear).  There's possibilities for a trike with front drive and steer, with an S2C, but front drive and steer trikes are pretty rare!
Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: LittleWheelsandBig on April 01, 2011, 12:16:14 am
Perhaps a 3 x 9 hybrid system with the hub controlled by a Sturmey trigger (with extended trigger?) and the derailleur with a twistgrip?
Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: Kim on April 01, 2011, 12:53:11 am
Yay, the mad science suggestions.   :thumbsup:

I'm thinking that given the right choice of chainrings and a wide range cassette you can indeed stay on the middle ring the vast majority of the time.  That's pretty much how I've got the gearing on the Streetmachine set up - the granny ring's only needed for really bastard hills or with luggage, and the big ring can be safely ignored entirely below about 20mph (barakta doesn't have any cycling fitness currently, so going fast or caring about being between gears isn't likely to be a problem).  Keep front shifts to a minimum and you can get away with a front shifter that's not fantastic ergonomically, which we're thinking is a reasonable compromise given the cost of wide-range hub gears.

We're currently thinking that twist-grip for the rear and extended bar-end for the infrequently used front.  There's no shortage of trikes with twist-grip shifters as standard, so we'll see how she gets on with that on Tuesday.


The mad science part of my brain wants to know if you could make a self-adjusting electronic shifter by measuring rattle in the mech with a piezo transducer in a manner akin to an engine knock sensor.  The sensible part of my brain says that I've got far too many other half-baked projects on the go which I actually stand a chance of making work.

I am tempted to try a servo-inna-box though.  It'd probably work about as well as the insane cable run on my folding BSO...
Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: tonycollinet on April 01, 2011, 06:33:29 am
Surely a servo wouldn't need to be any more self adjusting than an indexed gear system - as long as the cable pull was reasonably accurately controllable.

Alternativey you could have length of pull defined by twiddly pot, and have it non indexed.

Is gonna need bigger servos than those generally used for R/C modelling though I would think (*thinks about force needed to pull mech cable compared with R/C aircraft elevator*).
Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: Beardy on April 01, 2011, 12:27:58 pm

I'm leaning towards a possibly inverted, possibly full-length (indexed) grip shifter for the rear mech and an extended bar-end (friction) for the front, but we'll see how it goes on Tuesday when she actually tries to ride something.
If you are going for the full length grip shifter, tehn there is no need to invert, which keeps the top of the handlebar free for easier griping and releasing. I was looking at this solution for the Grasshopper,, but in the end went for the cheap and messy option of inversion.
Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: rower40 on April 01, 2011, 01:59:31 pm
There was no way that Spork-n-Shift(TM) was ever NOT going to make Post-of-the-Day.  Very well done.
Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: Tigerbiten on April 01, 2011, 03:18:54 pm
If your going for a twist grip, then a twin bar setup like mine won't work.
There's not enough room between the twin bars to hold the twist grip and twist it at the same time.
The back of your hand will hit the second bar to often.

I tend to hold my main handle-bar high enough so that the back of my hand does not hit the second bar.
This makes the palm of my hand around the pivot level of the bar-end shifter.

What time are you planning to get to Kevin's ??
I'll bring my Trice Q over so you can see/study the setup.
Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: Kim on April 01, 2011, 04:51:48 pm
If your going for a twist grip, then a twin bar setup like mine won't work.
There's not enough room between the twin bars to hold the twist grip and twist it at the same time.
The back of your hand will hit the second bar to often.

I'm thinking that twist grip + bar end means that a twin bar won't be necessary (at least, not on the right, where the controls are.  It might be a sensible way to give more reach on the left).

Thinking about it, there are going to be cable-routing issues with doing that.  I know that drilling holes in handlebars to route cables is considered harmful on upright bikes, but what's the verdict on a recumbent trike, where they're only going to be subjected to steering forces?  My gut instinct says it'll be fine, and in any case the consequences of failure would be less nasty, but my gut is the wrong kind of engineer.


Quote
What time are you planning to get to Kevin's ??
I'll bring my Trice Q over so you can see/study the setup.

We're aiming to get there between about 12 and 1pm, depending on how much the car hire people decide to faff me about (they seem to be deliberately sloppy about having the cheaper cars ready on time).

Do I sense an excuse to come and play with the shiny toys?  :)
Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: LittleWheelsandBig on April 01, 2011, 06:49:35 pm
Drilling the bars of a recumbent trike would be fine. Just ovalise the holes (1 near barend shifter, 1 past the grip) and avoid stressraising notches.
Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: Quint on April 01, 2011, 07:08:39 pm
I don't understand the need to drill the bars, thought cable from bar end went down outside of bar (as does of course the twistgrip cable
Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: Kim on April 01, 2011, 07:13:25 pm
I don't understand the need to drill the bars, thought cable from bar end went down outside of bar (as does of course the twistgrip cable

Exactly.  The cable from the bar-end goes down the bar, where it meets the twist-grip, and ???
Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: LittleWheelsandBig on April 01, 2011, 07:14:05 pm
How do you get the bar end lever's cable past the gripshifter without getting in the way of your fingers? The answer is to run it inside the bar but the lever starts the cable outside the bar, hence two holes needed, one in the grip region.
Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: Cunobelin on April 01, 2011, 07:16:48 pm
This may sound silly but bear with me.....

On recumbents the standard twist shifter tends to be operated by the heel an palm ofvthe hand. it is possible to fit them the other way up so the thumb grip is used tomtwist.

This may need some revision of cable lines, but it may be worth looking at which way up provides the better and more comfortable change

Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: Cunobelin on April 01, 2011, 07:21:52 pm
OK, so we have a prototype.  Now what we need is a dismantled Shimano shifter for the mount pattern, some nice light Ti bar, one of Mr Gates' friend Jarkman's kitchen table Proxxon CNC millers, a gas torch to do the pretty colours, and some ordinary household bleach*, and we have a plan!  :D


Seriously though, I really have to get the workshop built, don't I?  Custom length machined bar end shifters can't be that hard, can they?


*OK, I lied about the bleach, it's a Young Ones reference.

Call yourself engineers -where is the TEA
Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: Quint on April 01, 2011, 07:23:31 pm

Duh, must remember engage brain before typing  :facepalm:  




Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: Kim on April 01, 2011, 07:31:12 pm
This may sound silly but bear with me.....

On recumbents the standard twist shifter tends to be operated by the heel an palm ofvthe hand. it is possible to fit them the other way up so the thumb grip is used tomtwist.

Yup, we've already considered this:

https://yacf.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=45696.msg902191#msg902191

And I think it's pretty clear that nothing's too silly a suggestion for this thread :)


I suspect that an inverted twist-grip shifter is going to make a bar-end shifter on the same bar rather tricky, though (well, it's going to need an inch or so of bar for its cable to disappear into a hole above the shifter).  The cable issue can probably be handled by a nice wide loop - which will have to clear the brake lever - secured with cable ties lower down the bar.  Nasty-looking, but might work.
Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: tonycollinet on April 01, 2011, 08:30:04 pm

Is gonna need bigger servos than those generally used for R/C modelling though I would think (*thinks about force needed to pull mech cable compared with R/C aircraft elevator*).

OK, I am wrong
Servo Shop (http://www.servoshop.co.uk/index.php?pid=HITHS805BB&area=Servo) (19Kg.cm)

And that is a comparative baby.


EDIT: however, curent draw for such servos would seem to rule that sort of system out. (2A)
Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: Cunobelin on April 01, 2011, 08:43:07 pm
It is so nice spending other people's money!


Nokon cables are not cheap, but can allow some sharp bends unachievable with standard systems
Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: Cunobelin on April 01, 2011, 08:56:01 pm
Depending on the trike then it is possible to mount a twist grip laterally on a stub, and the bar end above this.

I have seen it done with the stub below the grip, although it does mean moving the hand to change gears

Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: Kim on April 01, 2011, 09:02:57 pm
OK, I am wrong
Servo Shop (http://www.servoshop.co.uk/index.php?pid=HITHS805BB&area=Servo) (19Kg.cm)

And that is a comparative baby.


EDIT: however, curent draw for such servos would seem to rule that sort of system out. (2A)

2A's no problem for a vaguely decent battery, and a gear change only lasts a second or so.  You'd need a reasonably high-capacity battery and/or something to keep it topped up, but that's doable.  Hmm.
Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: TimO on April 01, 2011, 09:07:45 pm
I suspect that an inverted twist-grip shifter is going to make a bar-end shifter on the same bar rather tricky, though (well, it's going to need an inch or so of bar for its cable to disappear into a hole above the shifter).  The cable issue can probably be handled by a nice wide loop - which will have to clear the brake lever - secured with cable ties lower down the bar.  Nasty-looking, but might work.

You could probably take the cable out of a bar end lever the wrong way around, with a little bit of creativity.  It would look a little odd, but assuming that the upward loop didn't foul on anything, it would allow you to mount a twist grip almost immediately below a bar end.
Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: andygates on April 01, 2011, 09:10:11 pm
Or just get some Shimano Di2 kit. :demon:

Bike electrics are tricksy and faily compared to good mechanical mods...
Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: Kim on April 01, 2011, 09:11:18 pm
You could probably take the cable out of a bar end lever the wrong way around, with a little bit of creativity.  It would look a little odd, but assuming that the upward loop didn't foul on anything, it would allow you to mount a twist grip almost immediately below a bar end.

I'm really beginning to wish I hadn't binned that crash-damaged one now...
Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: tonycollinet on April 01, 2011, 09:14:24 pm
Problem is (at least the way I was thinking of it) I had the servo pulling the cable of a standard mech. Trouble is it must maintain the pull indefinately against the mech spring. So 2A continuous. Needs a big battery.
Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: LittleWheelsandBig on April 01, 2011, 09:15:00 pm
Wouldn't work through the full range of a bar end lever, the cable will get in the way.
Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: Kim on April 01, 2011, 09:57:28 pm
Problem is (at least the way I was thinking of it) I had the servo pulling the cable of a standard mech. Trouble is it must maintain the pull indefinately against the mech spring. So 2A continuous. Needs a big battery.

D'oh.  Of course.  So, in the absence of mechanical voodoo, only really sensible with a Rohloff or something.

ETA: So what you actually do is servo-ify a shifter, rather than the cable directly.  Probably most likely to work with a good old-fashioned thumb shifter.  You'd still do the indexing in software, so a friction shifter would be fine.  Assuming there's enough force to make it work, of course.
Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: Cunobelin on April 03, 2011, 12:17:13 pm
Again spending your money!

What about the new Alfine 11?

Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: tonycollinet on April 03, 2011, 12:24:49 pm
Alfine 11 is significantly cheaper than Rholoff (and I will be fitting when the current cassette needs replacing) but is still spendy.

Servoising a friction shift would work if servo has enough torque, but you have to overcome the spring force, and friction force. I thought about servoing an indexing thumb shifter. Should be possible to come up with an arrangemement where servo in one derection shifts up (and then back to center). Other direction shifts down.

As with all these things, the electronics is relatively easy. The mechanical coupling less so.
Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: TimO on April 03, 2011, 01:30:25 pm
Isn't the point of using a Rohloff that it doesn't have a return spring, like most hub gears tend to have, hence the need for two cables, one for the force in each direction.

This would remove the requirement to have the servo under significant force all the time, and reduce the power consumption (and heating!) of the servo.  You'd still have to overcome the friction element, which would not be insignificant, but by housing the unit as near to the changer as possible you would remove the cable friction that is quite a large element in most peoples gear changing systems, especially after it's aged a bit.

(Has anyone ever done hydraulic gear changing instead of cables?)
Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: LittleWheelsandBig on April 03, 2011, 04:02:39 pm
Hydraulic shifting has popped up several times over the last three decades but it has never taken off. I suspect that electronic shifting will become widespread within the next decade.
Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: TimO on April 03, 2011, 04:16:18 pm
Hydraulic shifting has popped up several times over the last three decades but it has never taken off. I suspect that electronic shifting will become widespread within the next decade.

I just had a quick google around, and 5rot seem to have been the most recent to do it, four or five years ago.  I guess like many things in bicycles, it's been invented over and over again, and eventually may take off.  Things like clipless pedals, shaft and belt drive have all been "invented" umpteen times, although clipless pedals is the only one of those three to significantly succeed.

As you say, electronic shifting is very likely to have most of the advantages of hydraulic shifting, without all the faffing about with seals, and the potential for leaks.  Once it's been used enough in the pro-racing teams, and the rich early adopters, hopefully it'll filter down to us mere mortals, who don't want to spend several thousand on the gear changers alone!  I really like the idea of a self calibrating changer. :)

Of course electronic shifting would also have massive benefits to recumbent and tandem cyclists, where the long cable runs often make their changers even less reliable than those on more conventional bikes.
Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: arvid on April 03, 2011, 07:13:57 pm
Of course electronic shifting would also have massive benefits to recumbent and tandem cyclists, where the long cable runs often make their changers even less reliable than those on more conventional bikes.

There is a slight problem for human power fundamentalists with it though. In most recumbent/human power races you are not allowed to use them, because they're obviously not human powered   :P
Maybe if you can make it work with the power of a dynamo...
Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: tonycollinet on April 03, 2011, 07:35:55 pm
So are battery lights also not allowed?

Servoising a friction shift would work if servo has enough torque, but you have to overcome the spring force, and friction force. I thought about servoing an indexing thumb shifter. Should be possible to come up with an arrangemement where servo in one derection shifts up (and then back to center). Other direction shifts down.

As with all these things, the electronics is relatively easy. The mechanical coupling less so.

I've done a (very bad) sketch. The trick is in fixing shifter and servo together securly, and allowing the pull wires to go slack without becoming misplaced. (and having sufficient torque)

(http://www.collinet.plus.com/photos/gearshift.jpg)
Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: Kim on April 03, 2011, 07:50:44 pm
There is a slight problem for human power fundamentalists with it though. In most recumbent/human power races you are not allowed to use them, because they're obviously not human powered   :P
Maybe if you can make it work with the power of a dynamo...

That doesn't seem particularly tricky.  I'm fairly sure I've read about a Shimano? system for automatic gear changes that only uses battery power to maintain settings.
Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: LittleWheelsandBig on April 03, 2011, 07:54:43 pm
Shimano had an electronically shifted 4 sp internal hub nearly a decade ago that either changed gears automatically on the basis of speed or rider controlled push buttons. Shimano has also created a Nexus electronic shifter powered by the dynohub.
Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: Kim on April 03, 2011, 07:57:11 pm
I've done a (very bad) sketch. The trick is in fixing shifter and servo together securly, and allowing the pull wires to go slack without becoming misplaced. (and having sufficient torque)

(http://www.collinet.plus.com/photos/gearshift.jpg)

A trigger shifter set up like that would avoid the need for the electronics to understand more than "shift up" and "shift down", but as has been repeatedly said, electronics are easy.

I was thinking a traditional thumb shifter like we had in the 80s would be a lot simpler to interface mechanically.  If the torque was sufficient you could probably even couple it directly to the servo arm.  Intuitively, a non-indexed shifter should require less torque?

Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: tonycollinet on April 03, 2011, 08:57:25 pm
I would think not.. If non indexed, then it must be friction - and the servo must overcome the spring on the gear mech AND the friction in the shifter. An indexed shifter has no "extra" friction, and uses a rachet type mechanism to hold against the spring force.
Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: Kim on April 03, 2011, 09:19:55 pm
Ah, I see what you mean.  Hmm.  Never a spring balance around when you need one, is there?
Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: clarion on April 03, 2011, 09:21:39 pm
I'm surprised you don't have one immediately to hand.
Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: tonycollinet on April 04, 2011, 12:20:46 am
Ah - now there's an idea. Balance the mech spring with another spring pulling the friction shifter in the other direction. Then the servo only needs to overcome the friction.

Getting a bit complex now though.
Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: Mr Larrington on April 04, 2011, 11:59:49 am
Mavic have had at least two goes at introducing electronic shifting but neither was terribly successful.  I knew of a USAnian chap who treated himself to a set just before his PBP qualifying 600 in, IIRC, 1995.  It drowned and he was over the time limit :-\
Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: Jedrik on April 04, 2011, 06:29:10 pm
What about the Shimano Di2?
I have not seen it, but it is supposed to work with buttons - one up, the other for downshift and the battery serving it should be ok for quite a few miles.

For the energy concious there even is a rear-hub-dynamo to power it (which a german bent-rider uses to power his LED-front-lights - which is why I know about all this)

Lots of fun tomorrow, I'm keeping my fingers crossed for the perfect match.
Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: Kim on April 04, 2011, 06:45:28 pm
I have just been to the shops and obtained various forms of barakta-overclocking fuel.  Just need to charge some batteries and work out where my driving licence went, and we're all set.    :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: Butterfly on April 04, 2011, 07:13:13 pm
I have just been to the shops and obtained various forms of barakta-overclocking fuel.  Just need to charge some batteries and work out where my driving licence went, and we're all set.    :thumbsup:
:thumbsup: :D :thumbsup: :D :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: TimO on April 04, 2011, 07:16:02 pm
What about the Shimano Di2?
I have not seen it, but it is supposed to work with buttons - one up, the other for downshift and the battery serving it should be ok for quite a few miles.

We talked a bit about Di2 a few pages back, and the Di2 groupset is around £1500, which is a mite expensive for something that you're going to start taking apart immediately. For a test of a Baraktamobile, it's probably an unrealistic expenditure.
Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: Jedrik on April 04, 2011, 07:39:56 pm
We talked a bit about Di2 a few pages back, and the Di2 groupset is around £1500, which is a mite expensive for something that you're going to start taking apart immediately. For a test of a Baraktamobile, it's probably an unrealistic expenditure.

Sorry, that must have slipped me by.
it would really be possible to use that - most trikes do use MTB-stock-components and this has been fettled for just the gear range you'd need:
Bikerumor  » Hack! Shimano Di2 Electronic Shifting Mated with XTR on a Niner (http://www.bikerumor.com/2011/03/12/hack-shimano-di2-electronic-shifting-mated-with-xtr-on-a-niner/)

If something like this would be put on a trike, it would most certainly hold its value. Maybe one could even get one or the other player to sponsor a demo-project at least partly?
Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: tonycollinet on April 04, 2011, 07:52:24 pm
I've done a (very bad) sketch. The trick is in fixing shifter and servo together securly, and allowing the pull wires to go slack without becoming misplaced. (and having sufficient torque)

(http://www.collinet.plus.com/photos/gearshift.jpg)

A trigger shifter set up like that would avoid the need for the electronics to understand more than "shift up" and "shift down", but as has been repeatedly said, electronics are easy.

I was thinking a traditional thumb shifter like we had in the 80s would be a lot simpler to interface mechanically.  If the torque was sufficient you could probably even couple it directly to the servo arm.  Intuitively, a non-indexed shifter should require less torque?



The answer is of course obvious when someone points it out to you. Standby for another shockingly bad sketch.

(http://www.collinet.plus.com/photos/wormgear.jpg)

Worm gear on motor turns cable windy mechanism. When in place, remove power from motor - cable cannot back drive the motor. Attach a pot to the windy mechanism, and you've got position feedback. If cable pully part of windy mechanism is about 20mm diameter, then less than 1/2 a turn is needed for the full pull, which leaves lots of space for electric adjustment (2.5mm/gear on nine speed)

Will probably still need a gear on the motor before the worm gear, to get the torque necessary - so a modified servo (modified for continuous rotation) would do the job.

PS - have a great day tomorrow.
Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: Kim on April 04, 2011, 08:35:06 pm
I think we have a winner.   :thumbsup:

I still reckon we'll be able to get away with sensibly-chosen mechanical shifters, but it's nice to explore these options, should they become necessary later.
Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: redshift on April 04, 2011, 08:41:31 pm
If you're going for that, why not go the whole hog and use a leadscrew/ballscrew and stepper motor?
Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: tonycollinet on April 04, 2011, 09:06:35 pm
And off the shelf - not cheap at $90 (around £55 before postage etc) per mechanism.

However, possibly a ready built solution - linear actuator with up to 50N force over 30mm stroke. Built in position control - tell it where to go, and it goes there. Remove power and it holds up to a certain force limit). Does anyone know what the pull force is required for a gear mech?

http://www.firgelli.com/pdf/L12_datasheet.pdf

If you're going for that, why not go the whole hog and use a leadscrew/ballscrew and stepper motor?

Might also work if accurate enough.
Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: Kim on April 04, 2011, 09:57:47 pm
And off the shelf - not cheap at $90 (around £55 before postage etc) per mechanism.

However, possibly a ready built solution - linear actuator with up to 50N force over 30mm stroke. Built in position control - tell it where to go, and it goes there. Remove power and it holds up to a certain force limit). Does anyone know what the pull force is required for a gear mech?

http://www.firgelli.com/pdf/L12_datasheet.pdf

Cor, even I could molish something likely to work out of one (or two) of those.  And the power requirements aren't too taxing.  Assuming 45N is enough, my google-fu is weak tonight, but it sounds like it ought to be.

And £55 is about the cost of a set of bar-end shifters, so it's not utterly ridiculous.
Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: Kim on April 05, 2011, 09:46:22 am
Okay, I have a car - about average amount of faff.

Pouring tea into barakta and we're off!
Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: andrewc on April 05, 2011, 10:07:23 am
Have a good day and come back with a shiny 3 wheeled dent in the credit card :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: Butterfly on April 05, 2011, 10:35:42 am
Have a brilliant time - we're very excited for Barakta! I hope you find something that works swimmingly :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: clarion on April 05, 2011, 02:53:18 pm
*awaiting news*
Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: Charlotte on April 05, 2011, 02:54:50 pm
[/baitedbreath]
Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: clarion on April 05, 2011, 02:58:53 pm
[/batedbreath]

ITYM

unless you haven't cleaned your teeth this morning... ;D
Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: Wobbly John on April 05, 2011, 03:46:36 pm
Wel, I'm a couple of miles North of DTeK and it's been drizzly and gusty all day so I hope they haven't been put off.
Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: Quint on April 05, 2011, 05:52:39 pm
hard to type with fingers crossed (that day is a resounding success)  8)
Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: tonycollinet on April 05, 2011, 06:49:52 pm
Why am I excited?

 ;D :D ;D :D ;D :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: rower40 on April 05, 2011, 08:49:17 pm
[Tapping Foot smiley...]
What HAS become of them?  My hooks are more tenter(*) than usual.

(*) Nothing to do with using "camp" as an adjective.
Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: andrewc on April 05, 2011, 09:03:23 pm
It's like waiting on news of a birth...  ;D
Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: Quint on April 05, 2011, 09:25:47 pm
Worse, nails now down to quick  :-\
Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: clarion on April 05, 2011, 09:32:08 pm
They're probably still there, speccing...
Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: andrewc on April 05, 2011, 09:36:20 pm
Agonizing over the colour......   ;)
Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: Quint on April 05, 2011, 10:52:13 pm
pacing - up - and - down and up - and - down  ;)
Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: Feline on April 05, 2011, 10:54:50 pm
What's taking them so long, did they decide to cycle back home afterwards?
Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: Kim on April 06, 2011, 01:32:04 am
What's taking them so long, did they decide to cycle back home afterwards?

I wish!  Motorways are now officially worse than Sustrans routes.

I'll do a proper report in the morning after I've had some sleep and returned the car-shaped object, but for now, I present "Teh Grin":

(http://www.ductilebiscuit.net/gallery_albums/dtek/IMG_2607.sized.jpg)
Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: Quint on April 06, 2011, 01:40:13 am
ah good, you have returned :)
Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: andrewc on April 06, 2011, 08:37:18 am
Teh Grin, it burns .......... ;D

Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: Polar Bear on April 06, 2011, 08:44:40 am
Y'know, I feared for the guys at dtek or whether it was.  Imagine dealing with a couple with Kim's geekiness and Barakta's tenacity? :D
Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: Butterfly on April 06, 2011, 09:24:10 am
What's taking them so long, did they decide to cycle back home afterwards?

I wish!  Motorways are now officially worse than Sustrans routes.

I'll do a proper report in the morning after I've had some sleep and returned the car-shaped object, but for now, I present "Teh Grin":

(http://www.ductilebiscuit.net/gallery_albums/dtek/IMG_2607.sized.jpg)

Fantastic! :D

*goes to the garden centre so that she doesn't spend all morning waiting for the report* :-[
Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: Feline on April 06, 2011, 09:59:07 am
 :o  ;D
Is that the actual new trike?
Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: clarion on April 06, 2011, 10:00:59 am
Come on!  You can't tease us like that! :o

Tho that is a Lovely Grin :D
Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: mrcharly-YHT on April 06, 2011, 10:04:35 am
:o  ;D
Is that the actual new trike?

I think it is a D-Tek test machine and I'm guessing that the eponymous Girl B has found she can hop on one and go have teh fun.

Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: CrinklyLion on April 06, 2011, 10:06:24 am
It the wrong side of the wrong 12 o'clock, you can't be expecting Kim, who has a most sensible attitude towards sensible times to be up at night and what mornings are for, to feed your insatiable curiosity yet.
Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: clarion on April 06, 2011, 10:09:14 am
Nooooo!!!!! I want it now! >:(

*stamps foot*

*rolls on floor in tantrum*

Now! Now! Now! Now! Now!!!!
Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: TimO on April 06, 2011, 10:17:10 am
Nooooo!!!!! I want it now! >:( ...

Are you going to scweam and scweam and scweam, until you're sick? ;D
Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: Feline on April 06, 2011, 10:19:05 am
Nooooo!!!!! I want it now! >:(

*stamps foot*

*rolls on floor in tantrum*

Now! Now! Now! Now! Now!!!!

If you want it that badly then maybe you should tell Butterfly  ;D
Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: clarion on April 06, 2011, 10:23:26 am
Nooooo!!!!! I want it now! >:( ...

Are you going to scweam and scweam and scweam, until you're sick? ;D

I caaaaaaan!

Yeah.  Most probably.

If you want it that badly then maybe you should tell Butterfly  ;D

I don't know what you could mean!  O:-)
Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: Kim on April 06, 2011, 10:56:26 am
Well, that was a long day.

The first important discovery was about halfway down the M6, when I realised that my knee/lower leg problem was making me desperate for cruise-control.  It got progressively worse as the day went on.  I've just made an appointment with the physioterrorist to see about that.

We survived repeated attempts by the Garmin to lure us to Cambridge, and arrived at D-Tek after an otherwise uneventful journey, to find Tigerbiten and Kevin engaged in some sort of shifty-looking pingfuckit deal.  After a brief chat about what's what, a package of vital control adaptation components was produced.  Barakta's favourite was the fish-slice, but I reckon there's a lucrative market in hydraulic whisk brakes just waiting to be exploited...   :D

After a quick demonstration of the Trice's magic 45degree fold, we put barakta on a Sprint, and Kevin walked her down the road explaining how to ride it.  After a brief pause to dig out the radios so that she might stand a chance of hearing more than wind noise, I jumped on an Adventure and Tigerbiten accompanied us on a short ride down the road and up a farm track (NSTN rating: 2.5).  Barakta took to it immediately, and other than the one-sided braking issue had no significant problem operating the controls (we'd put the bars at different angles to compensate for asymmetric reach) - The SRAM twist-grip shifter controlling the rear derailleur was absolutely fine in the normal orientation, so that makes things nice and simple.

After a spot of boom adjustment, we turned around and came back down the track at a significantly higher speed.  I took the opportunity to give the suspension on the trike I was riding a thorough test on some of the more exciting bits of surface.  It was surprisingly good, I thought.  While riding a trike inherently means you hit a lot more of the bumps, it also makes them a bit less severe, and the suspension certainly takes the edge off the nastier bits.  I'm a bit traditional about off-roading, considering it one of the things that you don't really want to take lying down, but if you're committed to three wheels the Adventure isn't a bad option.

As we neared the end of the track, I noticed a nice flat area of slightly muddy concrete, and suggested we take the opportunity to do some serious cornering.  I was really impressed with how stable the Adventure was, in spite of the slightly higher centre of gravity.  Barakta didn't seem to have any problems with throwing the Sprint into corners, though obviously the one-sided braking was having an effect, especially on the loose stuff.  On the way back up the road, I gave it a bit of welly, and arrived sufficiently ahead of the others to be ready take a photo of barakta's awesome grin:

(http://www.ductilebiscuit.net/gallery_albums/dtek/IMG_2607.sized.jpg)

I think that says it all, really.    :thumbsup:

A bit of dirty trike-swapping proved that she definitely prefers the Sprint model.  I don't see us wanting to negotiate anything (willingly) with an NSTN rating of more than about 4; she doesn't have a problem with being low down, either in terms of getting in and out of the seat or visibility, and it's just more barakta-shaped.

I think she wants one...

(http://www.ductilebiscuit.net/gallery_albums/dtek/IMG_2609.sized.jpg)


We then spent a while thinking about the specifics of controls.  She had a go with Tigerbiten's setup and we concluded that the dual-brake lever was perfect, and she had no shortage of grip to operate the brakes.

Catrike and Windcheetah controls were tried for comparison, and dismissed as "far too stiff" and "inappropriately barmy" respectively.

The SRAM twist-grip was highly approved of (I think it was a significant improvement over the low-end Shimano one on my folding BSO that she'd used previously), and a bar-end shifter to operate the front mech will work well enough, with an extension kitchen implement of choice to aid precision tweaking.

Which leaves reach adjustment.  The handlebars on the ICE trikes are two independent approximately L-shaped bars, clamped into a tube with quick-releases for ease of folding.  This means that it's trivial to set one side at a different angle to the other, which is a good fast-and-dirty way of achieving a sufficently short reach:

(http://www.ductilebiscuit.net/gallery_albums/dtek/IMG_2610.sized.jpg)

This is very important to get right, as barakta's left wrist is fused with titanium pins, so has no flexibility at all.  Limited finger motion means that the shoulder does most of the work in moving the hand around, which is unfortunate as her shoulder joint is poorly formed and will dislocate through a lot of its range of motion.  Something simple like tying her shoelaces is a ~6 dislocation task, and cumulative dislocations are painful and bad for the joint.  Anyway, going back to the Sprint, we were able to get the bar position such that her shoulder stayed in joint throughout the entire travel of the steering.  This is far better than I'd hoped for, and means she should be able to ride all day without shoulder fatigue.

Anyway, given that, it becomes simply a matter of providing a handlebar in the appropriate position at an angle compatible with her wrist's fused position.  Kevin reckons that the bar from one of the older ICE models, which has a dog-leg bend in it, should give this using standard parts, and if that's not sufficient, he has pet metal-benders who can molish a custom piece of tube for the purpose.  A short bar-end mounted at the bottom of the grip with some foam on it will provide a hand-wrest and convenient mirror mounting point.

We then spent a while thinking about trains and doorways and the like, with some serious contemplation of the importance of folding, whether a model narrow enough to fit through our front door was an option (yes, but not to the point of being worthwhile) and lots of experimental lifting.  As with many things in life, barakta looks like she's struggling when she lifts the trice, but given an appropriate strategy regarding grip points she's actually in fairly good control of the weight.  I don't see her having too much difficulty tilting it sideways to go through our front door (or onto trains etc) with a little practice.  Sustrans gates etc will of course be an arse, but that's what RADAR keys and helpful cyclists are for.

The rest becomes a matter of normal n+1 decisions.  Seats, components, accessories, suspension and folding options, tyres, that sort of thing.  We're going to do a bit of serious thinking and get back to Kevin about that.  I think we're both leaning towards a slightly better-specced machine than we originally anticipated, on the basis that this is very much going to be an n=1 for barakta, and I anticipate her ability to ride it seriously - both for touring and as a mobility aid - is going to be far greater than we'd hoped.

We also spent a fair amount of time hiding from the rain discussing all manner of loosely-related topics, including, but not limited to: The extreme helpfulness of YACF; disability mods and how to avoid them; small companies with tame engineers who'll answer all your weird geeky questions; VAT, banking and barakta's part in the demise of Lehman Brothers; Those Bastards At The DWP; knees; hilariously inappropriately-specced [b|tr]ikes and various works of That Nutter Burrows.

I may also have failed to balance a Molerat with both feet on the ground...   :-[

After some 4.5 hours, we set off home on what was to become the journey from hell.  My leg started hurting almost immediately, which wasn't helped by the motorway network being sponsored by Sustrans cycle path department for the evening.  The M6 was completely closed, so we found ourselves on the less-than-stunningly-flowing M1 heading north without a sensible map.  A secondary mission objective was to visit Decathlon, which is on the other side of Birmingham in a place best accessed by car, in order that we could invest in some cheap cycling-appropriate clothing for barakta.  That clearly wasn't happening, but it occurred to me that there was also a Decathlon in Nottingham, and that we could pay a visit to a friend whose computer I've been promising to wrangle for a couple of weeks now.

Which is how we ended up Not Going To Ikea:

(http://www.ductilebiscuit.net/gallery_albums/dtek/IMG_2612.sized.jpg)

Charlotte will be pleased to hear that we saw one lesbian couple (in the hiking equipment aisle, naturally), and managed to buy shoes without either of us killing anything.   ;D

(http://www.ductilebiscuit.net/gallery_albums/dtek/IMG_20110405_201046.sized.jpg)

I also picked up a set of nasty-looking mudguards for under a fiver, which I should be able to fit to the tandem, and spotted these gloves, which inexplicably made me think of Feline:

(http://www.ductilebiscuit.net/gallery_albums/dtek/IMG_20110405_201035.sized.jpg)


Leaving Nottingham at far-too-late-o'clock, we thought we'd escape further doom, but no - some bastard decided to close a section of the M42.  This was particularly annoying, as I'd left the Garmin in my bag in the boot, on the basis that I knew the route.  Much voodoo navigation was needed, and we were doing okay until we arrived at central Birmingham, where a closed section of the A38 threw us into a tangle of confusing and unfamiliar one-way roads in the vicinity of Digbeth.  Using The Force, we eventually reached escape velocity and flew off at a random tangent, finally intersecting with the Pershore Road.  We finally got home at about 1am.

I had to get up to return the car-shaped-object to the hire company, but barakta is, at time of writing, sensibly still asleep.
Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: Kim on April 06, 2011, 11:00:06 am
:o  ;D
Is that the actual new trike?

I think it is a D-Tek test machine and I'm guessing that the eponymous Girl B has found she can hop on one and go have teh fun.

Correct.

We haven't yet bought a trike.  We're not quite that impulsive (read: Kevin was a force for common sense).  This sort of thing takes a bit more time and contemplation, and isn't like selling trailer tents to fenlanders...   :P
Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: Kim on April 06, 2011, 11:02:42 am
It the wrong side of the wrong 12 o'clock, you can't be expecting Kim, who has a most sensible attitude towards sensible times to be up at night and what mornings are for, to feed your insatiable curiosity yet.

Sadly Enterprise charge an hourly rate for lie-ins, so you get the report before 12.

I've now had some vitiamins D[1] and C[2] and can go back to bed and sleep it off properly.  Knee was being a pain last night.


[1] Diclofenac
[2] Co-codamol
Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: clarion on April 06, 2011, 11:04:47 am
Crikey!  An epic journey, but one well worth making in your Quest.
Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: mrcharly-YHT on April 06, 2011, 11:10:48 am
Great report and sounds like a great day out. Much sympathy for knee - cars can be very hard on them, MrsCharly has gone for months at a time when she couldn't drive. Heavy clutches are the devil.

Kevin really sounds like such a top chap.

I wonder if one of the elbow supports from aero-bars, munged on the handlebar so it forms a wrist support, would help with saving B's shoulder?
Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: Notsototalnewbie on April 06, 2011, 11:12:02 am
Much of this thread is incomprehensible to me (apart from the NSTN ratings, of course ;D), but I get the gist, and that is that things are looking very promising for barakta being able to join a pootle at some point this year! Her lovely smile says it all really.

Best of luck with your final decision :)
Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: Feline on April 06, 2011, 11:15:49 am
Teh awesomeness!
And those black and white gloves would definitely match my black and white bib shorts, and of course my white bike  ;D
Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: Charlotte on April 06, 2011, 11:16:42 am
I'm so pleased that it looks like there's a good solution for all Barakta's triking needs.  More than that, I'm *really* looking forward to riding with you guys.
Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: Kim on April 06, 2011, 11:20:46 am
I wonder if one of the elbow supports from aero-bars, munged on the handlebar so it forms a wrist support, would help with saving B's shoulder?

That's not a bad idea, actually, though might be problematic for steering range given the short reach.  While I'm sure a bar-end will be sufficient (it's more about not having to actively grip the bar the whole time, in the way one would normally rest a finger or two in the crook of the brake lever, than providing much in the way of support for the shoulder), that could be rather elegant if it would fit.
Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: Wendy on April 06, 2011, 11:22:32 am
YAY!!!!!!


 ;D   :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: mrcharly-YHT on April 06, 2011, 11:28:38 am
I wonder if one of the elbow supports from aero-bars, munged on the handlebar so it forms a wrist support, would help with saving B's shoulder?

That's not a bad idea, actually, though might be problematic for steering range given the short reach.  While I'm sure a bar-end will be sufficient (it's more about not having to actively grip the bar the whole time, in the way one would normally rest a finger or two in the crook of the brake lever, than providing much in the way of support for the shoulder), that could be rather elegant if it would fit.

Some of them can rotate - even the basic ones on the Profile Century bars could be adapted so they can rotate.  Might need a bit of munging, but the older model brackets are nice bits of drilled Al, so lend themselves to creative fitting.
Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: Kim on April 06, 2011, 11:38:34 am
Some of them can rotate - even the basic ones on the Profile Century bars could be adapted so they can rotate.  Might need a bit of munging, but the older model brackets are nice bits of drilled Al, so lend themselves to creative fitting.

She has something not entirely dissimilar attached to her desk to support her right arm while mousing:

(http://www.posturite.co.uk/public/pictures/products/standard/3511.jpg) (http://www.posturite.co.uk/PosturiteSite/pages/product/product.asp?prod=3511&cookie%5Ftest=1)

It's about 70% annoying, as it's free to move but only in arcs, but occasionally vital.

We do actually have a spare one in the "mice and ergo-bollocks" box.  I wonder how easy it would be to fettle that middle joint onto a bar-end...
Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: andygates on April 06, 2011, 11:55:56 am
Pretty easily I reckon.  They're funny things when riding, at least tri-bar style, get them just slightly wrong and you have a prize bruise for your trouble. 

I'm dead impressed with the independently-settable handlbar sides, that's turned out to be made of win. 
Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: tonycollinet on April 06, 2011, 01:07:29 pm
Excellent visit report  :D but you've made me Not-Plan-My-Bug-Ride-For-Sunday!  :(

On the steering front, one thing to be aware of - you don't need anywhere near the the full range at speed, and at low speed it is viable to do full range steering with one hand.

I think the sprint is the best choice, mainly for lower COG, but also just looks better. It is also surprisingly usable offroad. I think only the roughest tracks would be a problem. (Two weeks ago, I rode it round the edge of a lake with each wheel on one of two separate tracks, one 6-8 inches higher than the other - there was only one point where I was clearly going to be tipped into the lake, so I had to get off)
Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: Regulator on April 06, 2011, 01:09:30 pm
:o  ;D
Is that the actual new trike?

I think it is a D-Tek test machine and I'm guessing that the eponymous Girl B has found she can hop on one and go have teh fun.

Correct.

We haven't yet bought a trike.  We're not quite that impulsive (read: Kevin was a force for common sense).  This sort of thing takes a bit more time and contemplation, and isn't like selling trailer tents to fenlanders...   :P


*** Looks for single extended digit smiley ***

I'm no Fenlander - I have correct number of fingers and toes...

...plus I asked Mr R's permission.
Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: TimO on April 06, 2011, 01:13:23 pm
I take it that the red trice is the Sprint, and the blue one is the Adventure?

When I bought mine, you had a choice of original steel Trice, or bleeding edge new aluminium Trice (which turned out to be a whole world of pain for Peter Ross).  I had an aluminium one, and it had a number of issues, but was still stonkingly great fun. :thumbsup:

It looks like you had a good time, even aside from the various knee and road issues.

So, if you go this route, the Sprint can fold up, and presumably just sit on the ground?  I was just wondering in terms of train transporting issues, if you've got your recumbent bike hanging up (in some trains), then this doesn't conflict with a folded trike just sat on the ground.
Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: Quint on April 06, 2011, 01:38:01 pm
Kevin is kin brilliant, his concern to make sure you come away with the right choice sometimes errs on the side of "do you want me to buy one or not" type thoughts  however we have two ICE from him (mine 26" Barbaras Sprint 1) and service is second to none, so chuffed for Barakta.
      
Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: Arch on April 06, 2011, 03:06:35 pm
Yay! Excellent and exciting report!

With regard to getting through Sustrans gates, the fab thing I find is that if there one of those larger hoops for prams/wheelchairs, a narrowish trike can usually just go through it, with care - I find them easier on the trike than an upright bike for that reason, as I have a fear of clipping a pedal on the narrow bit that becomes a self fulfilling prophecy.

If you are fettling additional bar ends and so on, bear in mind the Terracycles Cockpit set up...

Miva Merchant: Fatal Error    (http://www.terracycle.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&Store_Code=T&Category_Code=CP)

You can buy the whole set up, or just components like the t-bars or clamps.  I liked the way they'd designed the clamps to be open ended, so that you don't have to take stuff off the bars to slide them on.  Looks to be capable of a fair bit of adjustment in many angles.  Of course, a friendly engineer could probably make up bits you need, but it might help with inspiration.

Really glad it was such fun!
Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: Kim on April 06, 2011, 03:30:08 pm
I think the sprint is the best choice, mainly for lower COG, but also just looks better. It is also surprisingly usable offroad. I think only the roughest tracks would be a problem.

Agreed.  It made light work of the loose and lumpy farm track, and (tyres and traction permitting) should cope with all manner of nastiness as long as it's not lumpy enough to risk grounding the frame.  I don't see us wanting to do anything more seriously off-road than the odd Sustrans path, canal towpath or stretch of farm track, and it should cope it all of those well enough.


I'm no Fenlander - I have correct number of fingers and toes...

But not the correct number of hills...


Quote
...plus I asked Mr R's permission.

 ;D


I take it that the red trice is the Sprint, and the blue one is the Adventure?

Yup.


Quote
So, if you go this route, the Sprint can fold up, and presumably just sit on the ground?  I was just wondering in terms of train transporting issues, if you've got your recumbent bike hanging up (in some trains), then this doesn't conflict with a folded trike just sat on the ground.

When folded, it's got about the same footprint as a larger manual wheelchair, so not too bad for fitting into places, especially if you lie it sideways.

I dare say it would be possible to tetris a folded trike and a Streetmachine (or sensibly shaped bike) into a Crosscountry dangly bike space, with a bit of work.  While the dangling bike doesn't give a lot of clearance for something to fit underneath, there's probably enough of a gap somewhere to make it work.

The canonical solution to trains is to put the folded trike into a bag, magically transforming it into Luggage, but the usual chat-to-the-train-staff-about-unusual-bikes-and-how-far-you've-ridden and looking-a-bit-disabled methods are also known to have the desired effect.


If you are fettling additional bar ends and so on, bear in mind the Terracycles Cockpit set up...


Miva Merchant: Fatal Error    (http://www.terracycle.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&Store_Code=T&Category_Code=CP)

Ooh, some good stuff there, if just for Gadget mounting.


Quote
Really glad it was such fun!

It certainly was.   :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: CrinklyLion on April 06, 2011, 03:36:49 pm
So, when will Barakta be Warty-ing?  Some of us have to do lists to work through, you know....  ;)
Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: Butterfly on April 06, 2011, 06:25:05 pm
Cool! This is sooo exciting! Can't wait to ride with Barakta. If she wants to start gently she could come for a ride with Cycleman and friends :). We've had to wrestle his trice over some barriers, but it's mostly fine :thumbsup:.
Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: Kim on April 06, 2011, 07:31:15 pm
I'm no planning expert, but I think we should probably wait until after she's actually got a trike...   :D
Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: TimO on April 06, 2011, 08:05:06 pm
Picky. ;D
Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: Quint on April 06, 2011, 08:51:24 pm
It certainly was.    :thumbsup:

    And so twill be, why do we call it "The Dark Side" when brings so much light.

      Unheard call from t'other room, answers yes dear, back in me cage.  

                                                     :P
 
  
 
Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: rower40 on April 06, 2011, 09:33:55 pm
So glad you had fun.  (Apart from the motorways and the poorly knee etc.)
Catrike and Windcheetah controls were tried for comparison, and dismissed as "far too stiff" and "inappropriately barmy" respectively.
Sigged. ;D

Good luck on finding the funding for n+3/2.
Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: Kim on April 06, 2011, 09:42:51 pm
Good luck on finding the funding for n+3/2.

Given that we've now got single-sided hand controls sussed, selling off superfluous limbs seems like the obvious option.   :D
Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: cycleman on April 06, 2011, 09:46:20 pm
glad to hear you have had a good day  :thumbsup:.i hope to have the opportunity to ride with you both when you get the new machine/s  :)  
Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: Arellcat on April 06, 2011, 09:58:30 pm
... Windcheetah controls were tried for comparison, and dismissed as ... "inappropriately barmy".

Well that's Mike Burrows all over, really.  :)
Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: Arch on April 06, 2011, 10:12:32 pm
... Windcheetah controls were tried for comparison, and dismissed as ... "inappropriately barmy".

Well that's Mike Burrows all over, really.  :)

He's pushed me uphill you know.

Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: Kim on April 06, 2011, 10:30:51 pm
... Windcheetah controls were tried for comparison, and dismissed as ... "inappropriately barmy".

Well that's Mike Burrows all over, really.  :)

He's pushed me uphill you know.

Sideways?    :)
Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: tonycollinet on April 06, 2011, 10:37:47 pm
... Windcheetah controls were tried for comparison, and dismissed as ... "inappropriately barmy".

Well that's Mike Burrows all over, really.  :)

Yes - I tried that machine. Inappropriately barmy is a very adequate description.


... Windcheetah controls were tried for comparison, and dismissed as ... "inappropriately barmy".

Well that's Mike Burrows all over, really.  :)

He's pushed me uphill you know.

Sideways?    :)

Surely that would be "rolled" rather than "pushed"  :)
Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: Quint on April 07, 2011, 12:15:19 pm
Probably grumbling about how the design of the machine was all wrong  ;D

... Windcheetah controls were tried for comparison, and dismissed as ... "inappropriately barmy".

Well that's Mike Burrows all over, really.  :)

Yes - I tried that machine. Inappropriately barmy is a very adequate description.


... Windcheetah controls were tried for comparison, and dismissed as ... "inappropriately barmy".

Well that's Mike Burrows all over, really.  :)

He's pushed me uphill you know.

Sideways?    :)

Surely that would be "rolled" rather than "pushed"  :)
Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: Butterfly on April 07, 2011, 01:00:56 pm
I'm no planning expert, but I think we should probably wait until after she's actually got a trike...   :D
So do you need me to come and hold your coat whilst you rob the bank?
Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: Arch on April 07, 2011, 03:07:06 pm
Probably grumbling about how the design of the machine was all wrong  ;D

... Windcheetah controls were tried for comparison, and dismissed as ... "inappropriately barmy".

Well that's Mike Burrows all over, really.  :)

Yes - I tried that machine. Inappropriately barmy is a very adequate description.


... Windcheetah controls were tried for comparison, and dismissed as ... "inappropriately barmy".

Well that's Mike Burrows all over, really.  :)

He's pushed me uphill you know.

Sideways?    :)

Surely that would be "rolled" rather than "pushed"  :)

He was gentlemanly enough to say it was good training. That was back when I had my old heavy Trice, and I wasn't so fit.

Mind you, I'm still pretty slow uphill.
Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: Kim on April 07, 2011, 03:49:47 pm
So do you need me to come and hold your coat whilst you rob the bank?

That may be useful.   ;D

Barakta was jibbling about in Excel last night, but I'm not sure what conclusion (if any) she came to.

Does anyone have any useful input on the 26" vs 20" rear suspension models (Trice Sprint)?

My instinct says the RS is probably worth the substantial difference in cost (especially once you've added racks) on the basis of convenience (it's going to have to pass through our front door tilted sideways, so a smaller wheel is an obvious benefit) and more appropriate gearing - barakta's much more interested in being able to carry a substantial touring load than going fast, and the smaller wheel naturally lends itself to silly low gears.  She'll also be using short cranks, so lower gearing is better generally.  The shorter wheelbase makes it more barakta-shaped, too, but I think that's mostly aesthetic.

Also, exactly how essential are front mudguards?  I know Arch does without, but I'm generally of the opinion that mudguards are a Good Thing, especially when you're wearing an obscure Swedish hearing aid that's worth about as much as the trike is...

I'm working on the general principle that if you're going to skimp on things for cost reasons, better to skimp on the stuff that's easily added later.


I'll give her a 20" wheel to play with later and see how she fares at getting tyres on and off, with a view to deciding between Marathon Racer and Marathon Plus combined with sturdy slime-filled tubes.  My general preference is for something that's not too difficult to fit, because you're going to get a valve failure or bit of wire through the sidewall and have to fix it eventually - but if her hands aren't rated for tyre changing then making them as fairy-proof as possible is clearly the way to go.

Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: Notsototalnewbie on April 07, 2011, 03:55:50 pm
- barakta's much more interested in being able to carry a substantial touring load than going fast


Good woman!  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: Kim on April 07, 2011, 03:57:20 pm
She's also not keen on off-roading :)
Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: mrcharly-YHT on April 07, 2011, 03:58:50 pm
I think keeping the vehicle easy-rolling is quite important for someone who is only just getting into things - so maybe avoid Marathon Plus.

Kojaks seem pretty popular and roll well. What does tigerBiten use, since I presume he tries to avoid puncture repairs?
Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: Notsototalnewbie on April 07, 2011, 03:59:27 pm
Even better woman! ;D
Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: Kim on April 07, 2011, 04:08:29 pm
I think keeping the vehicle easy-rolling is quite important for someone who is only just getting into things - so maybe avoid Marathon Plus.

Yeah.  M+ are also relatively heavy, and avoiding gratuitous extra weight is desirable for making it easier to lift.  But obviously puncture resistance is paramount if she's going to struggle to fix it herself.  While I expect she'll mostly ride with others, it'll inevitably happen when she's on her own in the pissing rain.
Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: Tim on April 07, 2011, 04:11:17 pm
Front wheel mudguards are utterly unnecessary provided you ride in a straight line (adjusted for crosswind) such that the plumes behind the front wheels pass you by on either side. With two front wheels one of them will pass through puddles when the roads are wet.

Biggest advantage of a 26" wheel is standardising of gears. Otherwsie 9 toothed sprockets and 60 tooth chainrings start appearing at extra cost whenever you need to replace drivetrain components. Assess the gear range wanted and figure out whether that +10% (or some margin for error as it becomes more apparent what is actually used in practice) can be covered with a 20" wheel using standard cassette and chainrings.

Frankly jacking up the rear end by a few inches (if the rear end does not adjust the axle height) is unlikely to make much difference, being able to carry just one size of spare tube is handy, folding smaller (I assume the 20" version does) could be an advantage, but that and weight are more likely to be influenced by whatever else you choose to attach.

Aesthetics - wheel sizes matters! (see our tandem for our commitment to such things) and as it's a lot of money for something you're going to care about make sure that you are happy about these things.

I would not put kojaks on the front wheels of a trike if you don't like replacing them regularly, trike wheels chew through rubber at a frightening rate and kojaks aren't an exceptionally hard (wearing) compound. I caveat that with I'm used to the wear rate of a 'cheetah which is notoriously bad when flung around.
Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: Charlotte on April 07, 2011, 04:13:15 pm
I think keeping the vehicle easy-rolling is quite important for someone who is only just getting into things - so maybe avoid Marathon Plus.

Yeah.  M+ are also relatively heavy, and avoiding gratuitous extra weight is desirable for making it easier to lift.  But obviously puncture resistance is paramount if she's going to struggle to fix it herself.  While I expect she'll mostly ride with others, it'll inevitably happen when she's on her own in the pissing rain.

Good tyres and a can of evil slime in the panniers?

You'd be surprised how far you can manage to ride a trike on flat tyres anyway.  I ought to tell you about the time I bumped into Cycleman on the Uxbridge Road.  He had two flat tyres and a pile of busted spokes and about 25 miles left to go (he'd ridden from central London already).

His bumping into the only person in the vicinity with a bunch of short spokes in her spares box was rather fortunate...
Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: Butterfly on April 07, 2011, 04:18:23 pm
I think keeping the vehicle easy-rolling is quite important for someone who is only just getting into things - so maybe avoid Marathon Plus.

Yeah.  M+ are also relatively heavy, and avoiding gratuitous extra weight is desirable for making it easier to lift.  But obviously puncture resistance is paramount if she's going to struggle to fix it herself.  While I expect she'll mostly ride with others, it'll inevitably happen when she's on her own in the pissing rain.

Good tyres and a can of evil slime in the panniers?

You'd be surprised how far you can manage to ride a trike on flat tyres anyway.  I ought to tell you about the time I bumped into Cycleman on the Uxbridge Road.  He had two flat tyres and a pile of busted spokes and about 25 miles left to go (he'd ridden from central London already).

His bumping into the only person in the vicinity with a bunch of short spokes in her spares box was rather fortunate...
Yeah but he rides everywhere like that ;D.
Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: clarion on April 07, 2011, 04:22:16 pm
If you ride behind Cycleman and pick up the parts which drop off, you could build yourself a Trice before long.
Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: Kim on April 07, 2011, 04:29:00 pm
Good tyres and a can of evil slime in the panniers?

We covered this on Tuesday: Evil slime goes in the tyres, where it stands a chance of doing some good while there's still air in the tyre to make it work, not the panniers where it just adds weight.  Hate the stuff myself, but then I'm capable of changing a tube without pain injury serious problems.  On a related note, barakta-friendliness appears to be a killer application for both CO2 and bonkers demented-chainsaw Cyclaire pumps.


Quote
You'd be surprised how far you can manage to ride a trike on flat tyres anyway.  I ought to tell you about the time I bumped into Cycleman on the Uxbridge Road.  He had two flat tyres and a pile of busted spokes and about 25 miles left to go (he'd ridden from central London already).

You have.  Or at least someone has.  Regulator, maybe?

But yes, fair point.  A trike can get away with much lower tyre pressures too, so there's more bung-some-air-in-it-and-limp-somewhere-sensible potential.


Quote
His bumping into the only person in the vicinity with a bunch of short spokes in her spares box was rather fortunate...

I've said this before, but short spokes (especially the really short ones you need when there's a funky hub involved) should be zip-tied to a convenient bit of bike and forgotten about, as well as in the spares box.  Some things are too small, light and just plain unobtanium *not* to carry, even if you haven't got a clue what to do with them yourself.
Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: andygates on April 07, 2011, 04:47:59 pm
I've only had one ride onna trice, but it was Reg's little lovely and it was rainy and it was an accidental century (!) so there were *hours* of rain -- and I would have been a very bedraggled badger indeed if it didn't have front mudguards. 
Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: TimO on April 07, 2011, 05:57:48 pm
If inner tube replacement proves to be an insurmountable issue, you may want to consider Solid tyres (http://www.greentyre.co.uk/bike.html), although whether they will stay reliably seated on a trike (with higher side forces) I know not.  I imagine you could contact them and ask whether they're suitable for trikes.

Front mudguards are probably a good idea.  I remember cycling my old Trice in the rain, when there was no option for mudguards, and the plume of water from the front wheels ended up pooling in my lap!
Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: Quint on April 07, 2011, 06:26:16 pm
Marathon Supremes, I have been through thorns/broken glass etc etc and the fairy was wonderfully absent, they are easy to fit/get on and off, the perfect solution in fact, do get front guards they are essential
                                                                ;D

If inner tube replacement proves to be an insurmountable issue, you may want to consider Solid tyres (http://www.greentyre.co.uk/bike.html), although whether they will stay reliably seated on a trike (with higher side forces) I know not.  I imagine you could contact them and ask whether they're suitable for trikes.

Front mudguards are probably a good idea.  I remember cycling my old Trice in the rain, when there was no option for mudguards, and the plume of water from the front wheels ended up pooling in my lap!
Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: Kim on April 07, 2011, 07:19:11 pm
Okay, barakta's just changed the front tyre (replacing no-name cheese with a part-worn regular Marathon) on my folding BSO which I've been failing to get round to for ages.  She just barely managed it, needing to use a lever (I don't have a VAR one, unfortunately, but I'm sure that would have helped) to get the final bit of bead onto the rim, and both her hands are now suffering.  I don't rate her ability to do that in the cold, with circulation issues compounding the problem.

Looks like Marathon Pluses with slime, then.  It's the only way to be sure.
Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: TimO on April 07, 2011, 07:30:22 pm
I currently use Marathon Supremes on the Kaffenback, and they're pretty good at avoiding the fairy, but I still get occasional visits.  If puncture repair is not an option (and it doesn't sound like it'll be easy), then you want to be as bullet-proof as possible.  Marathon Pluses are likely to be that extra bit more tolerant (and I think even Schwalbe accept that the Supreme isn't quite as abuse proof as the Plus).  Slime should help with the occasional exception, and those even rarer events that exceed it's ability to thwart problems should probably be solvable with a telephone. ;D

Get a Var Lever, it's likely to help (even I've had to resort to using it once!), as is a CO2 inflator (although some sort of pump is also a damned good idea).

Whilst I can see that the Cyclaire may be more suitable for barakta to use, I wasn't that impressed by the one I've got.  The valve end was not very rugged.  I'd be tempted to try and replace it with something after market if possible, although that may compromise the way that the tube folds against the rest of the pump.
Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: Quint on April 07, 2011, 07:36:30 pm
I know this is the wrong size but do check out the construction   | Buy Online | ChainReactionCycles.com (http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Models.aspx?PartnerID=79&ModelID=24539) also check out the Schwalbe site, it convinced me and I would not use any other tyre now.  ;D  

(quote author=Kim link=topic=45696.msg908571#msg908571 date=1302200351]


Looks like Marathon Pluses with slime, then.  It's the only way to be sure.
[/quote]
Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: Feline on April 07, 2011, 07:38:11 pm
+1 to no tyre being inpenetrable. I thought my Schwalbe Durano Pluses were until I had a chunk of Kent flint cut into one in the wet. On examination the flint was literally like a little sharp stanley knife. There is no way any tyre could fend that off. It is the only visitation I have had in the last 4000 miles though  :-X
Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: TimO on April 07, 2011, 07:47:29 pm
The other problem is availability.  Marathon Supremes theoretically exist in a 20" version.

Even the 700C version can be hard to find sometimes (especially in the narrow versions).  I can't find anyone who seems to even offer to sell the 20" Marathon Supreme, let alone have any in stock.

It's relatively easy to find 20" versions of the Marathon Plus.

(The 26" version of the Supreme is about as easy to find as the 700C version, which means if you see them for sell, you buy several, since you know they'll be out of stock shortly. :-\)

Edit:  Actually, I managed to find some 20" ones, but stock seems pretty poor.  Most people don't have any, which makes me suspect those who claim to, are possibly being a little optimistic with the truth.
Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: tonycollinet on April 07, 2011, 07:56:44 pm
I have the sprint 2 with rear suspension, rack, mudguards and chain guard.

Suspension:
I went to d-tec with the express intention of finding out if I needed none, rear or full suspension. I didn't need front (doesn't seem to make much difference to me), but rear while not vital makes a big difference. It is more difficult to avoid the potholes on a trike, and the suspension allows you the option of putting a front wheel on either side of a hole, and letting the rear suspension absorb the worst of the shock.

Gearing with the stock setup is not a problem. I've never needed the lowest gear, and haven't got a hill round here I can spin out on in the top gear. I may well go for an alfine 11 when the drive train wears out which would result in a slightly narrower range, probably losing a gear at each end - unless I have a double at the front.


Tyres:
I have supremes on my hybrid, and no punctures in 8000 miles. So I put them on the trike. However, as above, options for avoiding problems are more limited with the three tyre tracks, and I've had two in about 800 miles (803.4 to be precise  ;D). One was a thorn, and the other a shard of glass. The tyres are a reasonably easy fit on the rims though, and I can fit them without levers. Definately get a VAR lever for Barakta.

Mudguards:
If you don't have them, Barakta's going to get very wet in the rain. Water sprays off radially from the tyres, and the rider is very close to the wheels. A slight turn of the weels, will give you a facefull, as will a side wind. I also went for the quick release kit so I can take them off easily if the forecast is dry. Although it is not much quicker than using a hex key - just tool free.
Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: Kim on April 07, 2011, 07:57:55 pm
If puncture repair is not an option (and it doesn't sound like it'll be easy), then you want to be as bullet-proof as possible.  Marathon Pluses are likely to be that extra bit more tolerant (and I think even Schwalbe accept that the Supreme isn't quite as abuse proof as the Plus).  Slime should help with the occasional exception, and those even rarer events that exceed it's ability to thwart problems should probably be solvable with a telephone. ;D

I agree.  I've had very few punctures on regular marathons, but this is a belt and braces job.

Telephones are of course a sticky issue, but we do at least live in The Future, where we have mobiles that can access an assortment of text-based media, some of which include handy geotagging capabilities, from wherever.  And she can always dial someone to get their attention and wait for them to SMS back...


Quote
Get a Var Lever, it's likely to help (even I've had to resort to using it once!), as is a CO2 inflator (although some sort of pump is also a damned good idea).

CO2 was a given, and yes, it sounds like a VAR lever would be a wise investment (if there are going to be Marathon Plusses around, I may need it).


Quote
Whilst I can see that the Cyclaire may be more suitable for barakta to use, I wasn't that impressed by the one I've got.  The valve end was not very rugged.  I'd be tempted to try and replace it with something after market if possible, although that may compromise the way that the tube folds against the rest of the pump.

I'm not overly enamoured with the valve end either, though I find it's far worse for Schrader than it is for Presta.  I've not really had a problem using it, though it might make sense to stick a more barakta-friendly head on the tube.

Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: Kim on April 07, 2011, 08:01:55 pm
Front wheel mudguards are utterly unnecessary provided you ride in a straight line (adjusted for crosswind) such that the plumes behind the front wheels pass you by on either side. With two front wheels one of them will pass through puddles when the roads are wet.

I've only had one ride onna trice, but it was Reg's little lovely and it was rainy and it was an accidental century (!) so there were *hours* of rain -- and I would have been a very bedraggled badger indeed if it didn't have front mudguards. 

If you don't have them, Barakta's going to get very wet in the rain. Water sprays off radially from the tyres, and the rider is very close to the wheels. A slight turn of the weels, will give you a facefull, as will a side wind. I also went for the quick release kit so I can take them off easily if the forecast is dry. Although it is not much quicker than using a hex key - just tool free.

...That's all looking pretty conclusive then.  Maybe I should ask Simon Legg in the interests of getting a balanced view?   ;D
Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: Kim on April 07, 2011, 08:16:50 pm
/me waves to Kevin

(I'll call you back in a minute  :D )
Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: tonycollinet on April 07, 2011, 08:21:53 pm
Another wave to Kevin  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: arvid on April 07, 2011, 09:05:23 pm
Okay, barakta's just changed the front tyre (replacing no-name cheese with a part-worn regular Marathon) on my folding BSO which I've been failing to get round to for ages.  She just barely managed it, needing to use a lever (I don't have a VAR one, unfortunately, but I'm sure that would have helped) to get the final bit of bead onto the rim, and both her hands are now suffering.  I don't rate her ability to do that in the cold, with circulation issues compounding the problem.

Looks like Marathon Pluses with slime, then.  It's the only way to be sure.

I like to point out that folding Marathon Racers or Kojaks are *a lot* easier to fit than threaded Marathon (Pluse)s.
The other week I needed technique and levers to remove Marathon Pluses 35-349 from my Brompton. I didn't need levers putting the 32-349 folding Kojaks on.
Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: Kim on April 07, 2011, 09:12:26 pm
(I'll call you back in a minute  :D )

Lots of good advice there that's broadly in line with our current thoughts on the subject of 26" hardtail vs 20" rear suspension and sensible tyre choice.  The only moderately silly suggestion of carrying a whole spare wheel.  And some discussion of that money stuff that's best not thought about too hard.

 :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: andygates on April 07, 2011, 09:16:24 pm
Don't forget good tubes.  Schwalbe are lovely.  The standard bike-shop Specialized tubes have a distressing habit of valve separation -- not only a flat, but an irreparable one! >:(

What is the puncture situation with trikes, anyway?  Much less weight on each tyre...
Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: Butterfly on April 07, 2011, 09:34:29 pm
(I'll call you back in a minute  :D )

Lots of good advice there that's broadly in line with our current thoughts on the subject of 26" hardtail vs 20" rear suspension and sensible tyre choice.  The only moderately silly suggestion of carrying a whole spare wheel.  And some discussion of that money stuff that's best not thought about too hard.

 :thumbsup:
Presumably the whole spare wheel idea would make the 20" rear tyre the best?
Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: Kim on April 07, 2011, 09:54:33 pm
It would pretty much guarantee it was the rear that punctured, anyway...
Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: arvid on April 07, 2011, 10:21:01 pm
What is the puncture situation with trikes, anyway?  Much less weight on each tyre...

Yeah, but also 50% more tyre, and 300% more tracks to pick up punctury stuff. I hear velomobile riders most often have the bank side front tyre punctured. Which is the right here on the continent, but presumably the front left in your place.
Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: redshift on April 07, 2011, 10:33:48 pm
Nearside wheel punctures are what I've had on Speedy.  I'm currently nursing the last of my Vredestein S-licks, which have been much less prone to punctures than the Contis which were standard.  When they've worn out, I'll probably end up with Duranos or some such.  I'd prefer a 406-25 or 28, rather than 406-35 (or 47!) but they're few and far between, and even when companies make them, as mentioned above, no bugger sells them.
Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: Quint on April 07, 2011, 11:11:59 pm
Have you tried West Country Recumbents  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: Tigerbiten on April 08, 2011, 12:16:32 am
Gearing:-
With a 20" wheel I would stick with the standard 9-32 rear but in front either go 48-36-22 or 44-32-22.
Dropping the inner ring from the standard 26 to a 22 gives you another gear down, 15"->12.5".
I find thats very handy on hills with a full touring load.
Then someting in the 48-44 range for the big ring.
With a 48 you'll spin out at just over 30 mph, 44 at just under.
A 44 will give you a slightly better jump for small to middle but I don't think there much in it.

Tyres:-
I use Marathon Racers on my Trice Q pumped up to 55 psi.
Ifound that if you pump them up to their max pressure of 85 psi, then unless the road is very smooth you get to much road buzz.
I've never used Marathon Superemes, but at my next full tyre change I may try a set.
I've used Marathon Pluses. I have a devil of a job to get them on and off single handed. Plus they give a harder ride than the Racers.
I've also used Kojaks, fast but not very hard wearing.
I find that unless I've knocked te front tracking out of line, then the front tyres will last around twice as long as the backs.
If the tracking is out then you can go though a front tyre in a couple of hundred miles, don't ask me how I know that.
I tend to get rear wheel puntures. Two in ~4.5k miles the last back tyre lasted.
But I also tend to ride fairly far out from the gutter so both front wheels tend to be on the bits of road cleared by car wheels.
Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: Quint on April 08, 2011, 02:06:51 am
Have you not tried a Big Apple, run at around 75psi, gives a good amount of cushioning with good fairy protection and is not hard to fit/remove. Crikey, I'm sounding like a tyre salesman  ;D
Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: Regulator on April 08, 2011, 06:59:11 am
What is the puncture situation with trikes, anyway?  Much less weight on each tyre...

Yeah, but also 50% more tyre, and 300% more tracks to pick up punctury stuff. I hear velomobile riders most often have the roadside front tyre punctured. Which is the right here on the continent, but presumably the front left in your place.

I've only ever had one faery visitation on Regina....

I have Marathon Plus on all three wheels.  They're relatively easy to get on and off in the 20" size, compared to the 26" and 700c sizes.  Plus with the Trice you dont have to take the front wheel off to sort out p*n*t*r*s. :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: Tim Hall on April 08, 2011, 07:56:22 am
On the tyre changing with non standard thumbs thing, have a look at this link:

https://yacf.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=28167.msg511847#msg511847 (https://yacf.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=28167.msg511847#msg511847)

which has a devilishly clever way of getting tyres on without hurty thumbs.

Idea by mrcharly
Demoed by Pippa
Shoes model's own
Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: redshift on April 08, 2011, 09:43:53 am
...  Plus with the Trice you dont have to take the front wheel off to sort out p*n*t*r*s. :thumbsup:

...and with Speedy you don't have to take any wheel off to fix a puncture.   ;D  ::-)
Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: mrcharly-YHT on April 08, 2011, 09:51:09 am
Don't underestimate the longevity of a fat tyre with medium pressures. I've ridden 30-odd miles with a hawthorn stuck right through a 1.5" tyre - I only lost about 10psi. Unless you get a big cut, it can take ages for a fat tyre to go flat.

The fatter the tyre, the lower the pressure you can get away with - tigerbiten's 55psi sounds good to me. Anyone who tried following him down hills can vouch that he ain't no slouch.

Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: Kim on April 08, 2011, 03:07:46 pm
On the tyre changing with non standard thumbs thing, have a look at this link:

https://yacf.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=28167.msg511847#msg511847 (https://yacf.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=28167.msg511847#msg511847)

I've tried that a few times now (indeed, had a brief attempt last night when it became obvious that barakta didn't stand a chance of doing it by hand), but never actually managed to get it to work.

TBH it's not that final bit that wrecks her hands - she's going to end up using some kind of tool to get the required force regardless (and if that makes rims a wear component, then so be it) - it's the cumulative effort of sliding a tyre lever round to remove the bead, working the new tube into the tyre so it doesn't get snagged, massaging the tyre/tube round the rim to ensure the bead is seated properly, faffing about with valves, operating a pump and/or CO2 inflator, and so on.  The steps that most people would do without thinking are probably equivalent to fighting with the last bit of bead on a Marathon Plus for you or I in terms of the amount of total hand strength and stamina she has available.

That's the problem with most of barakta's disabilities (including balance and hearing) - it's not so much a matter of what she can and can't do but more about what she can do for how long if she wants to avoid damage or be able to do anything else in the immediate future.  She could just about change a tyre and that would be her hand stamina for the day, so no chopping or stirring, intensive mousing, sorting papers, sock-pairing or any of the squillions of other daily tasks that she can usually do a bit of.  Spoon theory is a very useful model.

...Which is what really impressed me about the Trice.  Get the setup right and it's entirely possible for her to use the entire steering range (yes, I appreciate full lock is rarely needed - I do cycle) without any shoulder dislocations.  Being able to ride all day and still be able to wash your hair and tie your shoes afterwards without assistance.  Fantastic.
Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: Arch on April 08, 2011, 10:19:31 pm
I'm a bit late back to the party, but my pen'orth for what it's worth...

Mudguards. Yes, I manage. But that is mainly due to that fact that for most of the time I've owned the trike, it was mudguards or eating, moneywise.  I think a set is moving up my wishlist as the current account accumulates.  I may see if MFWHTBAB will do me some nice laminate ones....  I find that I get dotted with spatters on my arms, rather than gathering a puddle, but the odd spatter gets my face, and while I'm not a fussy type, I'd rather not eat too much mud.

Also, it is more sociable for anyone you're riding with - an upright rider tucking in just to one side of the rear wheel could get a face full.

Tyres. I have Kojaks all round, and in 1800 miles odd, have had one flat, a nearside front, presumably from something I ran over in an urban York gutter (it was an instant deflation event).  I thought it would be hell to get the tyre off, being a small wheel (16") and a 'racy' tyre, but in fact I found it very easy, perhaps the easiest of any I've done.  Levers to get it off, but thumbs alone to get it back, unusual for me.  They do roll beautifully.   (I do appreciate that you're going for the 'no need to fix ever' option, as opposed to 'low risk', but I was very surprised at how easy I found the Kojaks.)

The lowish pressure/big tyres thing is a good point. My winter hack has Big Apples, and last winter, thanks to a bad back, my tyre pumping up regime went to pot for about 2 months.  By the time I got round to it, they were down to 1 bar, and still rolling, without damage.

I think p*ncture rate can be moderated by riding technique. One of the guys I tour France with rides all his machines into the ground, and always comes top of the list in the group for flats. Along with bearings disintegrating, bits falling off etc. He does ride 1000s of miles, but he also seems hard on the machines.


Anyway, it's all very exciting! ;D
Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: Kim on April 08, 2011, 10:54:10 pm
Thanks for that - useful feedback.

I think barakta would kill me, or at least force me to ride behind at close range, if I even suggested molishing mudguards out of wood :)
Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: barakta on April 08, 2011, 10:55:03 pm
Thanks for that - useful feedback.

I think barakta would kill me, or at least force me to ride behind at close range, if I even suggested molishing mudguards out of wood :)

Well it's you who doesn't LIKE wood.  Live by the wood, die by the wood and all that!
Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: Cunobelin on April 08, 2011, 11:10:53 pm
Just noted the avatar...

Reminds me of my viva, the examiner had an image of a foot and asked us to discuss the image.

It wasn't until I had discussed all the features that they asked me to go back to basics... And I noticed the extra toe!

Apparently ver few of the candidates had noted the extra one
Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: barakta on April 08, 2011, 11:39:12 pm
Apparently ver few of the candidates had noted the extra one

I actually have missing digits (thumbs) and since I've had pollicisations (index fingers to thumbs) many people do not notice.  In fact I've been signing with people and had to point to each finger in turn counting them out so that they understand why there's something "a little bit weird about my signing".

My avatar is to restore the balance of thumb envy.
Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: Kim on April 09, 2011, 12:08:31 am
Live by the wood, die by the wood and all that!

That's Jesus.  I prefer Rincewind's philosophy of having a mutual agreement of not going near wood and the wood not splitting.   ;D
Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: Arch on April 09, 2011, 12:40:10 pm
I should point out that the mudguards you saw weren't even wood, they were hardboard!  And had been knocked up in an afternoon.  I'm thinking of something more in the fine cabinet making line.  Perhaps with polished brass fittings, in a steam yacht stylee....

MFWHTBAB has at home a chair and table he made in his furniture course, which Prince Charles sat in once. That's not made of hardboard, I should add.

But I digress. If you're getting a set up direct from Kevin, then yes, get the 'guards. Unless Barakta fanices the random leopard look.

Hmmm.  <ponders leopard print hi-vis coat>
Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: Kim on April 09, 2011, 03:54:25 pm
I should point out that the mudguards you saw weren't even wood, they were hardboard!

When your woodwork skills are as poor as mine, hardboard counts!


Quote
Hmmm.  <ponders leopard print hi-vis coat>

A cheetah print one would go faster (though you might get funny looks for having your back wheel in the right place)  ;)
Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: Arch on April 09, 2011, 10:05:27 pm
I should point out that the mudguards you saw weren't even wood, they were hardboard!

When your woodwork skills are as poor as mine, hardboard counts!


Me too, I put screws in with a hammer...
Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: Beardy on April 11, 2011, 09:55:14 am
I should point out that the mudguards you saw weren't even wood, they were hardboard!

When your woodwork skills are as poor as mine, hardboard counts!


Me too, I put screws in with a hammer...

And what's wrong with that? The Manchester screwdriver is a very versatile tool :D

Mind you, I do wonder what a set of laminated wooden 'fenders' would look like on the Grasshopper, with fittings in Verdigris copper. (My Gh is that lovely shade of brilliant green :) )
Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: Arch on April 11, 2011, 05:01:46 pm
I should point out that the mudguards you saw weren't even wood, they were hardboard!

When your woodwork skills are as poor as mine, hardboard counts!


Me too, I put screws in with a hammer...

And what's wrong with that? The Manchester screwdriver is a very versatile tool :D

Mind you, I do wonder what a set of laminated wooden 'fenders' would look like on the Grasshopper, with fittings in Verdigris copper. (My Gh is that lovely shade of brilliant green :) )

I think the right trike would look very nice in a steampunk style...

(BTW, I skim read Gh as Gf, and wondered why you had a green girlfriend....)
Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: Andrij on April 11, 2011, 05:21:26 pm
I should point out that the mudguards you saw weren't even wood, they were hardboard!

When your woodwork skills are as poor as mine, hardboard counts!


Me too, I put screws in with a hammer...

And what's wrong with that? The Manchester screwdriver is a very versatile tool :D

Mind you, I do wonder what a set of laminated wooden 'fenders' would look like on the Grasshopper, with fittings in Verdigris copper. (My Gh is that lovely shade of brilliant green :) )

I think the right trike would look very nice in a steampunk style...


The Brass Lion - Steampunk Recumbent | The Steampunk Workshop (http://steampunkworkshop.com/the-brass-lion-steampunk-recumbent ) ;D
 
Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: Arch on April 11, 2011, 05:52:25 pm
Loving the coach lamps!
Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: TimO on April 12, 2011, 04:33:07 pm
(BTW, I skim read Gh as Gf, and wondered why you had a green girlfriend....)

I'm glad it wasn't just me then!
Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: Quint on April 19, 2011, 08:55:44 pm
has Barakta decided yet, colour/wheel size etc etc  :)
Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: barakta on April 19, 2011, 09:51:53 pm
has Barakta decided yet, colour/wheel size etc etc  :)

Probably Red, 20" wheels etc.  Just waiting to hear back from Kevin :)
Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: Kim on April 19, 2011, 11:51:01 pm
The colour thing's a serious issue.  Obviously we're both fans of BLACK, but the ICE red is a particularly lovely shade (to my protanopic eye), and barakta seems to agree.  Also, judging by the photos of the Vortex on the ICE website, the mixture of matte and gloss blacks just isn't as sexy as matte black and shiny red.

More importantly I reckon that having a red trike offsets the extra rolling resistance of Marathon Plus tyres.  What's not to like?
Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: Quint on April 20, 2011, 01:59:41 pm
My Q-NT (original rigid model) was Candy Apple Red, I will love no other I declared from the battlements (ok, ok, the shed door then).
      Because I made a verbal error talking to Kevin about upgrading my Q-NT I was sent a (new style) black end just before Christmas, oh God I said, Ooh that's nice said Barbara  :)
      To cut a long story short (makes a change for me) and after driving Kevin nuts I am now the proud owner of a Black 26" NT Sprint, I love the colour so much that I declare from the battlements - - - -
                                                      ;D
Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: CrinklyLion on April 20, 2011, 05:19:34 pm
Red btrikes go fastest :)

[sings, slightly tunelessly]
I wanna WARTY with barakta, I wanna WARTY with barakta
[/sings]
Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: easyracer on May 01, 2011, 09:01:42 pm
Sorry I may have come to the party quite late, but have you considered using the side mounted handlebar bag as an arm rest (see below), maybe with the addition of a time-trial "arm cushion" thing?

http://www.icetrikes.co/image/overlay/side-handlebar-bag-and-altura-arran-bag.jpg

You could even completely remove the unwanted handlebar section you didn't want and go for a single-sided approach.
Or if extra leverage is the only thing required maybe a mod like this one below would be better?

Utah Trikes - Zoomer Horizontal Handlebar Upgrade Kit (http://www.utahtrikes.com/PRODINFO-Zoomer_Handlebar_Upgrade_Kit.html)

My old QNT is one of the few things that always give me a huge grin on my face, every time I sit on it...  :facepalm: No sniggering?! ;D

I think it is a very good idea to consider shorter cranks as, I personally think on a recumbent, anything as long as 170mm is a bad idea especially for yours knee's sake.

Good luck, and happy triking,

andy
Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: Cunobelin on May 02, 2011, 09:57:05 am
***WARNING***

Do not look at the  Sogreni  (http://www.sogreni.dk) website

Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: Arch on May 02, 2011, 10:06:05 pm
I met Kevin today, belatedly for the first time.

He was telling us all about the charming young lady who came for a test ride, and it was cool to be able to say "Oh, yes, Barakta!"

I also heard about the box of kitchen implements...
Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: barakta on May 02, 2011, 11:21:53 pm
*grins*  ;D

I shall be phoning Kevin on Wednesday by TextRelay to find out what's going on trikewise  as I'd like to purchase trike ASAP to make most of the summer.  Especially after meeting lots of YACFers this weekend in Wales.
Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: clarion on May 03, 2011, 11:02:16 am
We didn't put you off, then? ;)
Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: barakta on May 03, 2011, 12:01:17 pm
Nope, you were all lovely and fun to be around  :D
Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: Quint on May 03, 2011, 12:17:32 pm
Barakta, I hope you enjoy yours as much as I do mine (although as I may have said before, it brings out the hooligan in me  ;D)
Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: tonycollinet on May 03, 2011, 12:32:15 pm
Barakta, I hope you enjoy yours as much as I do mine (although as I may have said before, it brings out the hooligan in me  ;D)

Agreed - lifting a front wheel, or sliding the rear wheel in the piles of grit down the center of a little used lane.....=.......FUN.
Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: Quint on May 03, 2011, 01:12:25 pm
Also the downhill twisty bits, onlookers must think "ooh, there's a large grin on a trike"  ;D
Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: Kim on May 03, 2011, 01:49:47 pm
Sorry I may have come to the party quite late, but have you considered using the side mounted handlebar bag as an arm rest (see below), maybe with the addition of a time-trial "arm cushion" thing?

http://www.icetrikes.co/image/overlay/side-handlebar-bag-and-altura-arran-bag.jpg

Not a bad idea, though probably won't be necessary, at least in the short term.  Has the handy feature of doubling as a bar bag.


Quote
You could even completely remove the unwanted handlebar section you didn't want and go for a single-sided approach.
Or if extra leverage is the only thing required maybe a mod like this one below would be better?

Utah Trikes - Zoomer Horizontal Handlebar Upgrade Kit (http://www.utahtrikes.com/PRODINFO-Zoomer_Handlebar_Upgrade_Kit.html)

I've thought about single-sided.  You really do want two bars, though, even if you only hold one most of the time.  Eventually you're going to want to move between shifters / scratch your nose / unzip your jacket / adjust your hearing aid / make some sort of hand signal, and if you've got a spare hand to keep the trike on course while you do it, it makes things a lot easier.

Horizontal handlebars - or at least avoiding them - is one of the main reasons for wanting a recumbent trike in the first place.  Completely unsuitable for barakta's wrists.  A carefully selected mixture of stock ICE parts is pretty much ideal.


Quote
I think it is a very good idea to consider shorter cranks as, I personally think on a recumbent, anything as long as 170mm is a bad idea especially for yours knee's sake.

Agreed.  I reckon that anything more than 160mm is a bit too long for my leg length on any bike.  170mm always make me feel like I'm flapping about.  I have recently switched to 155mm on my 'bent, and it's made things a lot more comfortable.  Barakta's legs are about the same length as mine (maybe a tiny bit shorter), so the sort cranks are a no-brainer.


And yes, there does appear to be a significant grin factor  ;D
Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: easyracer on May 03, 2011, 05:35:36 pm
Funnily enough, looking for something completely different, I found this picture of a single sided controlled ICE trike here:

ICE QNT single-handed Controls | Flickr - Photo Sharing! (http://www.flickr.com/photos/33668712@N05/3928090677/in/photostream/lightbox/)

Hope that helps to visualise an easier cable routing, than the drilling holes for the cables, as they have just left it coming out from under the grip.

Good Luck,

andy

P.S. If you need some small cranks, Mike Burrows might be a good man to ask as he cut me a nice pair down to 120mm to save my joints. I could PM his details if you want them?
Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: Kim on May 03, 2011, 05:41:06 pm
Funnily enough, looking for something completely different, I found this picture of a single sided controlled ICE trike here:

ICE QNT single-handed Controls | Flickr - Photo Sharing! (http://www.flickr.com/photos/33668712@N05/3928090677/in/photostream/lightbox/)

Hope that helps to visualise an easier cable routing, than the drilling holes for the cables, as they have just left it coming out from under the grip.

Ach, that looks horrible!  I hadn't considered fitting the bar-end shifter backwards like that - it does put the cable mostly out of the way.  But might make it harder to use.  Interesting...


Quote
P.S. If you need some small cranks, Mike Burrows might be a good man to ask as he cut me a nice pair down to 120mm to save my joints. I could PM his details if you want them?

The ICE standard option of 152.5mm cranks should be fine.
Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: Cunobelin on May 03, 2011, 07:55:44 pm
I have seen the use of a bar end to mount the shifters

Either use the bar end to mount the grip shifter, or insert the bar end shifter into the bar end.

The other option I used was for a parking brake, but could modify, and that was to use an old fashioned friction shifter which fits below the grips. Can be operated by the heel of the hand
Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: easyracer on May 03, 2011, 08:10:08 pm
It's funny... You mention the bar-ends are back-to-front.
I've put my bar-ends the same way and, to be honest, they don't really make them any harder to use. Though it may make a bit of a difference for Barakta, you never know?

Maybe try it and see.

Good Luck, and happy triking,

andy

P.S. Don't worry, I realise that cranks as short as 120mm for most people are a step too far, but I really wouldn't want to ride anything long distance without them now. :) Though I do also have some 150's on my one and only upright, that I seldom use.  ::-)
Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: tonycollinet on May 04, 2011, 06:48:13 am
That is the stock ICE arrangement - at least how it is set up on mine.

Much easier to use than if the other way round. Pull back with forefinger - push up with thumbs. If thumbs are weak, then it is possible to push up with web between finger/thumb, or heel of hand.
Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: barakta on May 04, 2011, 04:34:07 pm
Well I managed to wake up enough to work a textphone on my second attempt so Kevin's got a nice probably Scouse operator relayed message from me on his phone.  8)
Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: Kim on October 31, 2011, 06:01:36 pm
Change the bulbs in the flashing lights, dust off the party poppers and get the dancing girls and brass band on standby!

After months of getting nowhere with D-Tek (sorry Kevin, if you're reading this), barakta's just paid a deposit for a Sprint RS with the efficient and email-savvy London Recumbents.  :thumbsup:

We're going to sort out the control mods ourselves, as we've got half a set of bar-end shifters and plenty of cutlery already.  A dual brake lever is on order, and we'll work out what to do about handlebar reach after she's ridden it a bit and got a feel for the ergonomics.
Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: Feline on October 31, 2011, 06:18:41 pm
Yay!  :thumbsup:
How long will it be until delivery?
Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: TimO on October 31, 2011, 06:24:52 pm
Yay indeed. :) :thumbsup:

... and in the unlikely event you have a fettling fail, I'm sure there will be plenty of people on here ready to make suggestions[1] and supply bits.

Footnote [1]: Silly suggestion, they're going to make the suggestions anyway, aren't they. ;D
Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: Kim on October 31, 2011, 06:36:52 pm
How long will it be until delivery?

Seems likely that it may arrive before the Marathon Winters become necessary...
Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: TimO on October 31, 2011, 07:01:57 pm
Seems likely that it may arrive before the Marathon Winters become necessary...

Hopefully they'll be less necessary on a trike anyway, other than cycling up a steep hill covered in snow and ice!

(...and with 20" wheels, probably impossible to find, which solves that dilemma!)
Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: Kim on October 31, 2011, 07:14:31 pm
Funnily enoguh, I have already located a source of that particular unobtanium:

http://www.winstanleysbmx.com/product/40010/Schwalbe_Marathon_Winter_20Inch_Spiked_Tyre


(Consensus seems to be that you only need one on the rear wheel.)
Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: TimO on October 31, 2011, 07:28:04 pm
Impressive.  I think that's about as small as you can get spiked tyres.  I had a look once for Brompton sized ones, and 16" studded tyres just don't exist.
Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: Kim on October 31, 2011, 07:30:18 pm
I was particularly impressed that they do a 24" version.
Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: andygates on October 31, 2011, 07:45:50 pm
Woot! :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: Tigerbiten on November 01, 2011, 03:35:55 pm
If you have trouble finding parts to mod the trike, try contacting ICE directly.
They easily found all the parts to mod mine.
This includes ordering from Taiwan the dual hydralic brakes opperated off one lever.
They normally have a very light touch but I under very heavy brakes I've found I can lift the back wheel ......  ::-)

Plus I've got a full hight shifter for my Rolhoff.

I'll hopefully see you on the Whitstable with it ...........  ;D
Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: barakta on November 01, 2011, 05:53:16 pm
Heh, I don't think it'll be delivered and built by then - or that I'll have the legs, but I definitely look forward to seeing you and others at some other mad ride!
Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: cycleman on November 01, 2011, 07:56:34 pm
i am looking forward to coming out on a potter with you soon then  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: Tigerbiten on November 01, 2011, 10:43:09 pm
i am looking forward to coming out on a potter with you soon then  :thumbsup:
+1
Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: oddball on November 02, 2011, 02:43:40 pm
(Consensus seems to be that you only need one on the rear wheel.)

That's interesting, I have my Marathon Winters ready to go on my trike(s) and decided on 3, one for traction on the back and 2 for stopping on the front.  It's hilly and often snowy and icy hereabouts in winter so being able to stop seemed a good idea.  ::-)Have I missed something?
Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: Kim on November 02, 2011, 02:58:48 pm
My understanding is that the lack of weight over the rear wheel means that while you may have some traction on the front, you're not going to get moving in the first place due to wheelspin.  Obviously three studded tyres are going to be better, but given that it's not going to flip out from under you like a two-wheeler, one on the back may be 'enough'.

Given the cost of the things, it seems worth trying a single one on the back first.
Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: mrcharly-YHT on November 02, 2011, 03:10:46 pm
Given the cost of the things, it seems worth trying a single one on the back first.
+1
I have no experience of recumbent trikes, but quite a lot of uprights.
You'll manage (mostly) fine with ordinary tyres on the front. You might slide, but you won't roll. Just don't try cornering at 40mph.
Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: oddball on November 02, 2011, 03:14:12 pm
I've slid about a bit in the snow and ice on my trike and it's a lot of fun. I agree you need ice spikes on the back to make any progress up a snow packed hill, however I reasoned if my front tyres don't adhere to the ice/snow then I'm not going to very good at stopping.  Maybe I'm being overcautious.

Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: Kim on November 02, 2011, 03:43:52 pm
We've just taken delivery of the dual-pull brake lever for the baraktacycle.  It includes a parking brake pin which seems barakta-friendly, so I'm wondering about putting the rear brake (going to upgrade the standard V to a disc brake I've got lying around just for the hell of it) on a standard lever on the left for handbrake turn enhanced control in slippery conditions and drag brake purposes.

We previously determined that with appropriate reach adjustment, barakta *can* operate a brake lever with her left hand, but not as quickly or forcefully as with the right.  Hence the tandem lever for decent control of the primary brakes.
Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: oddball on November 02, 2011, 03:47:03 pm
That will help, a brake on the wheel with the sticky tyre is a good plan!
Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: Kim on November 02, 2011, 03:51:13 pm
Indeed.  The ability to let the primary brakes cool off on a long descent without exceeding R17 is also likely to be desirable!
Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: Tigerbiten on November 02, 2011, 05:17:50 pm
A back wheel brake is usefull as a parking brake and can be used carefully as a drag brake.
But unless you have a lot of weight on the back wheel, don't expect the brake to have a lot of stopping power.
Last winter when my front brakes cables froze solid, I had to rely on the back brake as my only stopping power.
It was "FUN" taking upto 10x longer to stop due to the back wheel just skidding under even modderate braking.
Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: TimO on November 02, 2011, 06:21:41 pm
A back wheel brake is usefull as a parking brake and can be used carefully as a drag brake.
But unless you have a lot of weight on the back wheel, don't expect the brake to have a lot of stopping power. ...

On my old Trice, the parking brake lever had two stages, a bit on and fully on.  You could cycle it moderately well with the lever in it's "a bit on" location, and just eventually wonder why it was such hard work.  It would move with the lever fully on, but that was pretty obvious, so not such an issue.

That Trice did seem to have the weight a lot more over the front wheels than the current generations do (this was a Peter Ross 2nd generation aluminium Trice), and it was quite easy to lift the rear wheel with moderately hard braking, so would have been even worse for snowy traction.
Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: Quint on November 02, 2011, 06:28:00 pm
Last winter when my front brakes cables froze solid,

        I have had this several times, this summer (in readiness for winter) I have fitted Middleburn oilers  :)
Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: Kim on November 02, 2011, 07:04:50 pm
On my old Trice, the parking brake lever had two stages, a bit on and fully on.  You could cycle it moderately well with the lever in it's "a bit on" location, and just eventually wonder why it was such hard work.  It would move with the lever fully on, but that was pretty obvious, so not such an issue.

I made this mistake after swapping to the Sprint (I'd been mucking about on a fully-suspended Adventure) at D-Tek and seeing what it was like when you went flat out on a decent road.  I thought it was respectably quick *before* I discovered the parking brake was partially on  :D
Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: Tigerbiten on November 02, 2011, 08:04:12 pm
Last winter when my front brakes cables froze solid,

        I have had this several times, this summer (in readiness for winter) I have fitted Middleburn oilers  :)
New trike has hydralic brakes so they shouldn't freeze.
Plus they are more powerfull with less effort, I can lift the back wheel under very heavy braking.
I just hot I don't boil them keeping the speed down on steep twisty decents when you cannot just let the trike run.
Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: Kim on November 02, 2011, 08:06:35 pm
I just hot I don't boil them keeping the speed down on steep twisty decents when you cannot just let the trike run.

If anyone can...   ;D
Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: Tigerbiten on November 03, 2011, 09:47:05 am
I just hot I don't boil them keeping the speed down on steep twisty decents when you cannot just let the trike run.

If anyone can...   ;D
But I only burnt one pair of brake calipers out on my old trike ......  :demon:
Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: Cunobelin on November 03, 2011, 08:12:07 pm
I've slid about a bit in the snow and ice on my trike and it's a lot of fun. I agree you need ice spikes on the back to make any progress up a snow packed hill, however I reasoned if my front tyres don't adhere to the ice/snow then I'm not going to very good at stopping.  Maybe I'm being overcautious.

I tried this on the Catrike last year and one tyre works well up to a point.

Traction is fine and it gets you going. The Marathon Winter is also as adaptable. Pump it up and it runs like a Marathon Plus, but with a buzz. Let the pressure down and the spikes come into play. SO they can be used through the winter season.

However I had two problems. At one point there is a slope that has a camber as well. I used to slide on this. Secondly on the steep hill coming down from work I found that braking was impossible as the front wheels simply slid.

As a result I equipped the front with Winters as well.

I will be repeating the process this year with both the Catrike and Gekko.

However it does take away the fun of a smooth ice area or fresh snow as you cannot slide and turn in the same way
Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: barakta on November 03, 2011, 08:50:41 pm
Letter from Oliver at London Recumbents with receipt of what I've paid so far and costs breakdown for me + handwritten note saying delivery to them expected early next week, an email will be sent to me to let me know for delivery at my end (which is polite for "and you can pay us the rest of the moniez) :)

Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: cycleman on November 03, 2011, 09:13:57 pm
 :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: Kim on November 03, 2011, 09:15:54 pm
So, if I'm quick at fettling, you'll be able to ride to Whitstable afterall   :thumbsup: :P
Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: Butterfly on November 03, 2011, 09:16:10 pm
Brilliant news!  :D
Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: TimO on November 03, 2011, 11:10:48 pm
So, if I'm quick at fettling, you'll be able to ride to Whitstable afterall   :thumbsup: :P

"Right it's working, take it for a quick spin, and if it's OK, you can do a 70 mile ride on Friday".

You've really got it in for her, haven't you. ;D
Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: Kim on November 03, 2011, 11:40:23 pm
Barakta: Pay no attention to the naysayers, just think of it as two 35 mile rides, with a stop in Chatham between them :)
Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: barakta on November 04, 2011, 10:33:38 am
So, if I'm quick at fettling, you'll be able to ride to Whitstable afterall   :thumbsup: :P

Technically I'm avoiding a certain event in Birmingham and going to Oxford but at this rate I'll be sleeping off the sludge in my sinuses or the antibiotics for said sludge... ;/
Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: Kim on November 04, 2011, 05:18:18 pm
And it appears that n+1.5 has arrived in Dulwich in less time than it's taken me to obtain access to my own savings account.  Those ICE people are a bit efficient, aren't they?   :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: Tigerbiten on November 04, 2011, 06:48:20 pm
And it appears that n+1.5 has arrived in Dulwich in less time than it's taken me to obtain access to my own savings account.  Those ICE people are a bit efficient, aren't they?   :thumbsup:
I'v found that if its in stock, they post stuff off the next day at the latest.
Plus they have contacts all over the world to get the rare stuff in stock .........  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: andygates on November 04, 2011, 07:08:43 pm
they made me do a bloody century within minutes of seeing that little red Trice.  Watch out for these buggers.   ;D
Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: Kim on November 04, 2011, 07:28:49 pm
See, a 70 miler is perfectly sensible.   :)
Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: Wobbly on November 05, 2011, 10:54:32 am
My first outing on my new Bacchetta was 200km. 70 miles? Pah!
Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: andygates on November 05, 2011, 11:30:34 am
See, a 70 miler is perfectly sensible.   :)
They *said* it was going to be a 70 miler too, the big fibbers. :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: barakta on November 05, 2011, 07:47:28 pm
Got an email from Oliver saying it'd arrived and I could pay the rest and sort delivery.  Annoyingly I got it after they'd closed for the day so it'll be Tuesday before he's next around.  I may try calling on Monday to see if someone else can take my payment thobut :)

Yay trike!
Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: Auntie Helen on November 05, 2011, 07:52:44 pm
Grand news!

After I got Alfie I then decided to do the DunRun (having previously had no plans to do it) as it was all so comfortable. Only did 95 miles of the DunRun but still, after just four days of having Alfie...
Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: Pixie on November 06, 2011, 08:55:28 am
Got an email from Oliver saying it'd arrived
Oooh excellent news! You'll have so much fun...I'm heading out on mine again in a short while.

Last winter when my front brakes cables froze solid
:o In all my years I've cycling I'd never realised this was possible! Though maybe that's because as soon as it gets icy I won't venture out on two wheels.... Boy do I have a lot to learn now I've ventured over to the dark side.

I've got my winter tyres ready and waiting - i got them from West Country Recumbents as they were the cheapest I could find - arrived really quickly too  :)
http://www.wrhpv.com/ukshop/tyres/406/index.html



Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: Wobbly on November 06, 2011, 12:55:28 pm
Only did 95 miles of the DunRun but still, after just four days of having Alfie...

er... is Alfie your new born baby? If so, chappeau :)
Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: Auntie Helen on November 06, 2011, 08:31:20 pm
Alfie's my recumbent trike so yes, he's my baby... ;-)
Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: barakta on November 10, 2011, 04:05:38 pm
Finally managed to get payment sorted for the trike after some confusion in Oliver's absence and a credit card machine/processor cockup which had both Oliver and I on phones to banks for much of today and yesterday.  Delivery probably early next week! :)
Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: TimO on November 10, 2011, 04:48:59 pm
Damn, so you won't be with us tomorrow then! :( ;D
Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: Tigerbiten on November 10, 2011, 11:01:14 pm
But there's plenty of time to get fit for Southend .........  :thumbsup: ;D
Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: Auntie Helen on November 11, 2011, 07:39:41 am
When's Southend? I might come and meet y'all for breakfast!
Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: TimO on November 11, 2011, 10:09:45 am
When's Southend? I might come and meet y'all for breakfast!

9th December.

FNRttC Blog (http://fnrttc.blogspot.com/)
Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: Kim on November 14, 2011, 12:53:06 pm
(http://www.ductilebiscuit.net/gallery_albums/sprint/IMG_3135.sized.jpg)


  :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: tiermat on November 14, 2011, 12:53:42 pm
\o/ YAY!!!!

Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: andrewc on November 14, 2011, 12:58:31 pm
Wooooooo Hooooooooo  :) :D ;D :thumbsup:

Let the fettling commence.....
Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: Butterfly on November 14, 2011, 01:02:50 pm
Hurrah! :D 8)
Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: barakta on November 14, 2011, 01:20:08 pm
 :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D

AND it's all  being mantled while I am at work :D
Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: loadsabikes on November 14, 2011, 01:56:10 pm
Is it unpacked yet!
More photo's required.
Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: TimO on November 14, 2011, 02:27:06 pm
It's not a proper shaped box for a bike (or trike!) though is it?  They're supposed to be long and thin and block up the entire hallway! (my last n+1, Red did).

(http://jakal.sp.ph.ic.ac.uk/~timo/SLProCarbonRed_Before_ThumbNail_512.jpg)

;D

... but indeed, we need photos. :)
Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: andrewc on November 14, 2011, 02:34:30 pm
Streaming webcam of the assembly process, with sound so we can hear the swearing  ;)
Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: TimO on November 14, 2011, 02:53:31 pm
Streaming webcam of the assembly process, with sound so we can hear the swearing  ;)

Maybe I should ship the Kitten Cam up there? ;D

(Amazingly, Zev's actually on camera (http://yacf.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=50285.msg1092091#msg1092091) at the moment, and boy does she look bigger now!)
Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: Kim on November 14, 2011, 03:30:18 pm
Current progress:

(http://www.ductilebiscuit.net/gallery_albums/sprint/IMG_3136.sized.jpg)

(http://www.ductilebiscuit.net/gallery_albums/sprint/IMG_3139.sized.jpg)

(http://www.ductilebiscuit.net/gallery_albums/sprint/IMG_3141.sized.jpg)

That's the rear end mostly finished (note I've swapped the rear V-brake for a Tektro disc brake I happened to have spare).

(http://www.ductilebiscuit.net/gallery_albums/sprint/IMG_3137.sized.jpg)

It's the wrong tyres Gromit!  We specced and paid for Marathon Plus.  I assume London Recumbents will sort that out, but I've cunningly stuck the Marathon Winter on the back to reduce faff later (it'll need running in anyway).

It's already had the blood sacrifice, and I've done plenty of swearing at grub screws, so it's all going well...
Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: jogler on November 14, 2011, 03:31:40 pm
PROPER fettling that is :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: Auntie Helen on November 14, 2011, 04:02:17 pm
You have madegood progress Kim!

I refer you to my blog post of my build...

http://auntiehelen.wordpress.com/2011/07/08/alfie-the-trike-is-here/
Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: andrewc on November 14, 2011, 04:02:26 pm
Shiny, shiny red..... :P
Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: Charlotte on November 14, 2011, 04:13:49 pm
Woohoo!

*happybounce*

See, a 70 miler is perfectly sensible.   :)
They *said* it was going to be a 70 miler too, the big fibbers. :thumbsup:

Soz  :D
Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: clarion on November 14, 2011, 04:18:16 pm
Sandy! That looks like fun :D
Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: Kim on November 14, 2011, 04:21:18 pm
We are now fully Simon Legg non-compliant  :)
Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: Pixie on November 14, 2011, 04:33:37 pm
Excellent :D

And red is the BEST colour!
Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: Andrij on November 14, 2011, 04:34:40 pm
We are now fully Simon Legg non-compliant  :)

Untalced tubes?!?  :o           ;)
Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: Wowbagger on November 14, 2011, 04:42:50 pm
This is all terribly exciting!
Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: Kim on November 14, 2011, 06:02:11 pm
Front brakes adjusted; dual-pull lever fitted; spork'n'shift temporarily attached; pedals, seat, Spacegrip and bottle cage fitted.  Barakta installed to check for fit.

More photos after a much-needed food break.

Then boom adjustment and much arsing about with cables.

Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: Auntie Helen on November 14, 2011, 06:04:29 pm
Don't forget to ensure the cables are running underneath the track rods, not above them, to avoid pulling-to-the-right issues (I think ICE now route them this way since the problem was identified).
Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: Kim on November 14, 2011, 06:08:20 pm
Don't forget to ensure the cables are running underneath the track rods, not above them, to avoid pulling-to-the-right issues (I think ICE now route them this way since the problem was identified).

Yeah.  I'm going to have to pay special attention to that, as the brake cables are going to be inherently asymmetrical for the dual-pull lever.
Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: TimO on November 14, 2011, 07:19:25 pm
From the picture, it looks like the frame has a 45° fold, like the Gecko, so that the rear wheel ends up flat against the rear of the seat when folded?

It looks very shin, and is red, which is clearly the best colour, being faster than other colours. ;D

... It's the wrong tyres Gromit!  We specced and paid for Marathon Plus.  I assume London Recumbents will sort that out, but I've cunningly stuck the Marathon Winter on the back to reduce faff later (it'll need running in anyway). ...

It looks like the clearance between the mudguard and the tyre is pretty small, so you wouldn't want to use it on fresh snow, because I suspect the gap would fill with snow and jam the wheel quite rapidly.
Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: Kim on November 14, 2011, 08:10:37 pm
More fettlage:
(http://www.ductilebiscuit.net/gallery_albums/sprint/IMG_3151.sized.jpg)


Happy owner:
(http://www.ductilebiscuit.net/gallery_albums/sprint/IMG_3145.sized.jpg)


Barakta demonstrates the spork'n'shift:
(http://www.ductilebiscuit.net/gallery_albums/sprint/IMG_3150.sized.jpg)


We've got the boom length set, so chain and gears and all manner of cable things can be done tomorrow.  And then it should be rideable.   :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: Kim on November 14, 2011, 08:15:54 pm
From the picture, it looks like the frame has a 45° fold, like the Gecko, so that the rear wheel ends up flat against the rear of the seat when folded?

The seat comes off entirely, and the rear end ends up flat across the cruciform (and handlebars, which fold down).  There's video on the ICE website.


Quote
It looks very shin, and is red, which is clearly the best colour, being faster than other colours. ;D

That was a tactical decision, to counteract the rolling resistance of M+ tyres :)


Quote
It looks like the clearance between the mudguard and the tyre is pretty small, so you wouldn't want to use it on fresh snow, because I suspect the gap would fill with snow and jam the wheel quite rapidly.

There's some room for adjustment there, but I wasn't anticipating much in the way of fresh snow anyway.  Re-frozen ice is far more common.
Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: gerwinium on November 14, 2011, 08:17:42 pm
Droooooool :)

Congratulations on the new shiny!
Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: interzen on November 14, 2011, 08:21:01 pm
Is it wrong that the first things I noticed were a) the rubber band around the brake lever in the first photo and b) the Babylon 5 box-set in the second?

It looks very nice but, as any fule kno, the best colour is orange

IGMC ;)
Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: Kim on November 14, 2011, 08:26:03 pm
Is it wrong that the first things I noticed were a) the rubber band around the brake lever in the first photo

That's the only currently-operational brake, to stop it rolling about.  There's a proper parking brake thinger that's yet to be connected :)


Quote
b) the Babylon 5 box-set in the second?

What's not to like[1]?   :thumbsup:



[1] River Of Souls, obviously.
Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: clarion on November 14, 2011, 08:30:30 pm
Marvellous.
Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: andrewc on November 14, 2011, 08:35:13 pm
Your home looks about as untidy as mine, and there's only one person living here  :-[

Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: Butterfly on November 14, 2011, 08:36:35 pm
That's brilliant  :thumbsup: :D :thumbsup: :D 8) :D :thumbsup: :D :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: andygates on November 14, 2011, 08:41:20 pm
Did it come red, or have you been sacrificing copiously? 
Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: Feline on November 14, 2011, 08:41:23 pm
Oh awesome, it looks brilliant! I bet you both can't wait for the test ride  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: Wowbagger on November 14, 2011, 08:43:19 pm
Did it come red, or have you been sacrificing copiously?

Copiously - that's a great name for a cat.  :D
Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: barakta on November 14, 2011, 08:56:17 pm
Your home looks about as untidy as mine, and there's only one person living here  :-[

That is Kim's bike storage room aka where all the crap is piled.  That's *her* mess :D

I keep my mess in the dining room next door which is mostly activism crap  :-\
Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: TimO on November 14, 2011, 09:17:04 pm
Quote
It looks like the clearance between the mudguard and the tyre is pretty small, so you wouldn't want to use it on fresh snow, because I suspect the gap would fill with snow and jam the wheel quite rapidly.
There's some room for adjustment there, but I wasn't anticipating much in the way of fresh snow anyway.  Re-frozen ice is far more common.

That's what I guessed.  If you feel the need to use it in heavy fresh snow, then you can always remove the mudguard.

Your home looks about as untidy as mine, and there's only one person living here  :-[

Chez Kim/Barakta is far tidier than Chez TimO/Kai/Zev.  I've still got boxes which I haven't unpacked from when I moved in four years ago!
Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: barakta on November 14, 2011, 09:28:12 pm
We have stuff that lives in boxes deliberately from when we moved about 3.5 years ago.  Why unpack when you can keep geek crap IN the boxes :D  Style, what is this thing you call style.  Magnolia Landlord decor, dodgy umpteenth hand curtains on the curtain rails which haven't fallen out of the wall yet and black metal shelving full of boxes of tech and L/HQT.
Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: Kim on November 14, 2011, 09:30:36 pm
Who cares about that stuff?  We've got some cool bikes!
Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: andrewc on November 14, 2011, 09:40:28 pm
Looks around at plastic boxes full of LP's, an entire nest of battery chargers, 2 weeks worth of clean clothes piled on an armchair (hiding other stuff beneath) and more books than I've time to read.... :facepalm:

I also appear to have taken Quentin Crisp's advice regarding dusting to heart  ;D

The cool bikes are in the hall outside the flat, with a very chunky chain to make sure they stay there!
Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: Regulator on November 15, 2011, 06:47:45 am
C'mon, c'mon....

Aren't you up yet to finish fettling?





 :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: Polar Bear on November 15, 2011, 07:55:35 am
This is awesomely fabulous news.  We definitely news that YACF Christmas meet now  ;D.  8)
Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: Wendy on November 15, 2011, 08:24:57 am
Haven't you finished already?  ;D :P
Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: clarion on November 15, 2011, 08:29:24 am
So when's the first West Mids ride? :D
Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: Arch on November 15, 2011, 09:08:14 am
Chez Kim/Barakta is far tidier than Chez TimO/Kai/Zev.  I've still got boxes which I haven't unpacked from when I moved in four years ago!

None of you have seen my place!

As for the trike: Yay! indeed :thumbsup:  :thumbsup:  ;D

 
Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: cycleman on November 15, 2011, 10:28:01 am
looking good  :thumbsup:. :)
Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: tonycollinet on November 15, 2011, 11:58:43 am
Excitement - I loved putting mine together
Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: Kim on November 15, 2011, 03:06:54 pm
Okay, we now have brakes and gears, in a barakta-friendly configuration.  There are now an awful lot of cables on the right handlebar, but the steering appears content to stay put, having re-routed the right side brake cable as per Auntie Helen's advice.  I've routed the cable to the bar-end shifter externally for now.  If barakta decides to keep that configuration I'll drill a hole in the bar and route it down the middle.

Also, cycle computer - which took a couple of hours as I had to hack into the potting compound and re-wire the bracket for darkside sensor positions and then molish a dérailleur post sensor mount out of a £1 Asda pound shop camping stool.

And a Smart bracket on the rear rack, which would have been a 2 minute job if it hadn't taken so long to find an appropriate set of hex-head screws.

I'll put the chain on shortly...
Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: Auntie Helen on November 15, 2011, 03:20:34 pm
I ended up buying ICE's own cycle computer mount. On the old Trice Q, with drum brakes, there was a handy bar to put the sensor on but with the disks no joy. Still, that extra wasn't tooooo expensive, fortunately!

Really exciting that it's nearly ready!
Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: barakta on November 15, 2011, 03:23:33 pm
 :D  I knew I'd find an update on here cos I can't see what Kim's up to on IRC other than the front door open at 13:11.

 :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: Tigerbiten on November 15, 2011, 03:56:38 pm
So when's the first West Mids ride? :D

+1
I can make this weekend but I cannot make the next one ............ :demon:

Congrats on the new trike.
It looks like its going together nicely ...........  ;D :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: TimO on November 15, 2011, 04:43:19 pm
:D  I knew I'd find an update on here cos I can't see what Kim's up to on IRC other than the front door open at 13:11.

What, you don't have her fitted with an RFID device, and sensors throughout the house?  Kai and Zev may well find themselves tracked like that at some point. ;D

(...although that could well also be a Tim tracker, since they both tend to follow me around the house!)

On my old second generation Trice, I paid for a computer mount, which was a short bit of horizontal tube welded onto an upright piece fitted just in front of the seat.  It was ideally placed to view, and basically identical orientation to a mounting on a handlebar.  It cost me £10 extra or some similar small amount, and was painted to suit the rest of the frame.  Very neat.  I wonder why they don't build something like this into current bikes/trikes, it was a trivial mod and could easily be used for things like GPS instead of computers, which always also seem to be a problem on recumbents.
Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: Tim Hall on November 15, 2011, 04:58:38 pm
It's all brilliant fettling. This bit:

Also, cycle computer - which took a couple of hours as I had to hack into the potting compound and re-wire the bracket for darkside sensor positions and then molish a dérailleur post sensor mount out of a £1 Asda camping stool.

encapsulates essence of Kim.
Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: Kim on November 15, 2011, 05:00:48 pm
I ended up buying ICE's own cycle computer mount. On the old Trice Q, with drum brakes, there was a handy bar to put the sensor on but with the disks no joy. Still, that extra wasn't tooooo expensive, fortunately!

The wheel sensor's a doddle, as it'll go on the mudguard support.  The cadence sensor requires a bit more cunning - I've basically done the same thing as I've used on the streetmachine, using one of the derailler post accessory bolts rather than a dedicated mounting point on the boom.  As ever, photos to come...
Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: Kim on November 15, 2011, 07:45:56 pm
Okay, I'm calling it a day.

We now have a chain, a Cyo, computer and cadence sensor bracket (molished from a pound shop camping stool), Garmin mount, and a nice healthy bundle of Mr Schmidt's finest coaxial cable (some cable ties are slack in anticipation of having to replace the front gear cable with a slightly longer one pending ergo-tesitng):
(http://www.ductilebiscuit.net/gallery_albums/sprint/IMG_3158.sized.jpg)

Cockpit view:
(http://www.ductilebiscuit.net/gallery_albums/sprint/IMG_3165.sized.jpg)

All primary controls moved to the right hand, both front brakes on a single lever, bar-end shifter (I removed the spork for cable access) controls the front mech, grip shift the rear:
(http://www.ductilebiscuit.net/gallery_albums/sprint/IMG_3161.sized.jpg)

Bottle dynamo (I've forgotten which and I'm not going downstairs to check - whatever came up tops in my bottle dynamo research back in May), rear disc brake controlled by standard lever on the left hand (the front brake lever includes a parking lock).  Smart bracket on luggage rack.
(http://www.ductilebiscuit.net/gallery_albums/sprint/IMG_3163.sized.jpg)

Almost finished:
(http://www.ductilebiscuit.net/gallery_albums/sprint/IMG_3164.sized.jpg)


 :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: barakta on November 15, 2011, 07:49:08 pm
:D  Kim has spent all day on it carefully doing the wiring and electronics and other molishing and mantling to the point where her hands don't look all that happy!

It was nice to come home to after a stressful day at work.
Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: andygates on November 15, 2011, 07:49:27 pm
Nice mods, me likey.   :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: Tim Hall on November 15, 2011, 07:55:17 pm
Is that a spaghetti jar full of cable ties?

Has Jurek seen it?
Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: Polar Bear on November 15, 2011, 07:59:39 pm
Kim,

That looks bloody awesome.  A very good day's work. :thumbsup:

What cycle computer is that please?   Looks big enough to be of mega use to me  :)
Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: Kim on November 15, 2011, 08:03:45 pm
Is that a spaghetti jar full of cable ties?

Well it's a spaghetti jar sized tub of cable ties, yes.  I seem to have run out of black ones.


Quote
Has Jurek seen it?

Seems unlikely.
Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: Kim on November 15, 2011, 08:06:45 pm
What cycle computer is that please?   Looks big enough to be of mega use to me  :)

I think you've asked me about this before?  It's a Specialized Speedzone Elite (http://yacf.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=2169.msg640553#msg640553), same as on my other bikes (I knew I could mod the wiring, and I'm happy with the general lack of stupidity in the design).
Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: andrewc on November 15, 2011, 08:12:19 pm
Bows down before Teh Kim's awesome fettling skillz   :D
Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: rower40 on November 15, 2011, 08:19:42 pm
Okay, I'm calling it a day.

 :thumbsup:
10/10 for molishing/mantling/fettling skillz.
But couldn't you think of a better name than "a day"?

Coat. I'm Gone.
Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: Kim on November 15, 2011, 08:22:00 pm
I think its name might be Spike[1]...

There's still some electrical fettling to do (chiefly, the installation of dynamo rear lights on the front mudguards, with Tamiya connectors to facilitate mudguard removal, but also adaptation of the standard ICE flag[2] to double as a half-wave aerial for the hearing assistance radio band), and I'm going to extend the lever of the bar-end shifter in a slightly more graceful manner than cable-tying a spork to it.  If that goes well, I'll probably drill a hole in the handlebar to route the gear cable internally under the grip, as it looks awful hanging loose like that.



[1] A politically incorrect contraction (in the reclamatory sense, in honour of barakta's general attitude to disability mods), m'lud.
[2] Finally, a sensible reason to have a flag on your recumbent!
Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: Kim on November 16, 2011, 12:37:55 am
It's probably unwise to drill holes in shiny new expensive things after midnight, but nevertheless:

(http://www.ductilebiscuit.net/gallery_albums/sprint/IMG_3169.sized.jpg)

Spanninga Pixeo rear lights on the trailing edges of the front mudguards.  Wired through a Tamiya connector to simplify mudguard removal in the event that removing the wheels is necessary to pack the trike into a smaller volume.  The computer wheel sensor is visible on the mudguard support directly below the Tamiya connectors (this will need releasable cable-ties for the same reason, but I didn't have any of the appropriate size).

Astoundingly, they actually work.   8)
Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: DrMekon on November 16, 2011, 06:23:10 am
So they are powered by the dynohub? I don't think Id have been ashamed of using battery lights there (we have battery lights on all the guards if our trike, and ours doesn't fold), but I hugely admire your commitment to doing the job properly.
Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: Pixie on November 16, 2011, 07:44:56 am
Impressive! I took the wimp's way out (drilling holes is not my forte) and fitted lots of reflective strips to my mudguards.


Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: jogler on November 16, 2011, 11:12:18 am
I reckon Kim has a Doctorate in fettling.
Dr.Kim.
yes,that sounds right :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: Charlotte on November 16, 2011, 11:47:09 am
She is the Undisputed Fettleweight Champion of YACF  :D

Random thought: one day, it is my ambition to take a photograph of Kim, holding a popular brand of retractable knife in one hand and a glass of barley water in the other.
Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: andrewc on November 16, 2011, 12:59:53 pm
We need  a bottle of Champagne to smash over the boom before the inaugural ride  :D
Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: Kim on November 16, 2011, 01:08:50 pm
So they are powered by the dynohub? I don't think Id have been ashamed of using battery lights there (we have battery lights on all the guards if our trike, and ours doesn't fold), but I hugely admire your commitment to doing the job properly.

Axa bottle dynamo for now - the budget didn't stretch to a Schmidt.  TBH it didn't really stretch to lights, but some things aren't worth fucking about with.  Hub dynamo is a reasonably straightforward (wheelbuilding[1] aside) upgrade for later.



[1] That reminds me, what's the secret for truing trike wheels?  There must be some way to get the dishing right...
Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: Kim on November 16, 2011, 01:20:06 pm
Random thought: one day, it is my ambition to take a photograph of Kim, holding a popular brand of retractable knife in one hand and a glass of barley water in the other.

That's a very strange ambition   ::-)

Seriously, I'm not that good at fettling - none of this stuff is particularly difficult - after all, ICE make self-assembly to a much higher standard than Ikea, and at no point were any adhesives required.   :D
Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: TimO on November 16, 2011, 01:29:03 pm
...That reminds me, what's the secret for truing trike wheels?  There must be some way to get the dishing right ...

By and large trike wheels don't need dishing, so they're easier to build and maintain. :thumbsup:

Whilst the rear wheel may be a little off if it's not dished, it won't really matter, and it obviously makes for a stronger wheel.  I'd imagine the one supplied isn't dished.  If they've done things sensibly, the rear forks will be aligned such that an undished wheel does place the rim in the centre (ie exactly between the front wheels).

Since you've also got disc brakes all around, truing is far less critical anyway, you can tolerate a lot more error before it becomes a problem than you would with rim brakes.
Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: Kim on November 16, 2011, 01:34:19 pm
...That reminds me, what's the secret for truing trike wheels?  There must be some way to get the dishing right ...

By and large trike wheels don't need dishing, so they're easier to build and maintain. :thumbsup:

Well yes, but I include confirming the lack of dish as a flavour of "getting the dishing right".  You can't just not measure it, otherwise it could be anywhere (a la Red of this parish's front wheel after the LBS had been at it), so there must be some way to do it...

Interesting point about the rear wheel.  I'll squint at it in a bit.
Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: TimO on November 16, 2011, 01:39:04 pm
Well yes, but I include confirming the lack of dish as a flavour of "getting the dishing right". ...

The advantage with an undished wheel is that you use identical sized spokes on both sides (assuming that the hub is the same on both sides, which isn't always the case with rear wheels), and get the tension roughly correct, and the same, and the wheel will naturally be pretty much in the middle.  Getting it exactly there doesn't really matter, so long as it's not fouling on the frame anywhere.

I've tended to make rear wheels in the frame, with the frame on a stand, which allows me to align it to the frame, which may not work in this scenario, but you can certainly put it into the frame at strategic points during the build to make sure it's approximately correctly aligned.
Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: Kim on November 16, 2011, 02:28:28 pm
Interesting point about the rear wheel.  I'll squint at it in a bit.

Doesn't look very dished, but then it is a disc brake hub, so they're not always obvious.


Anyway, I've dug a pair of really nasty tyre-shaped objects out of the pile of crap that was bound to come in useful eventually, fitted them, and we're about to go for a test ride...
Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: Feline on November 16, 2011, 02:49:41 pm
Good luck  :thumbsup:
We are hoping for pics!
Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: Jurek on November 16, 2011, 03:01:33 pm
Is that a spaghetti jar full of cable ties?

Well it's a spaghetti jar sized tub of cable ties, yes.  I seem to have run out of black ones.


Quote
Has Jurek seen it?

Seems unlikely.



It's here.



































































































On Streetview.
Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: TimO on November 16, 2011, 03:10:37 pm
Indeed, pictures, and ideally, videos, are required. ;D
Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: zigzag on November 16, 2011, 04:21:22 pm
looking good, and very neatly assembled! now all it needs is many happy miles of rolling road underneath.
Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: Kim on November 16, 2011, 05:32:22 pm
Well that went better than expected.  After negotiating the front door (more work needed there), I took it for a quick loop round the block and confirmed fully operational brakes and gears.  Then barakta got on and we rode to the local park, where we did several laps, a few handlebar adjustments, a bit of bollard dodging, scared some geese and did some controlled testing on the nice new flat area of hardpacked gravel (over a giant sewage tank) to check that it wasn't pulling to either side, even under braking.  I had a couple of goes, during which I managed to lift two wheels at the same time, and executed a rather good handbrake turn.  For SCIENCE.

So yeah, my fettling appears to have been fairly successful.  I was at least expecting to have to tweak the brakes a bit.  The bottle dynamo performs better than I expected, and is inaudible under the noise of the studded tyre.  The pixeo rear lights were, I reckon, an excellent choice.  Main thing to do now is sort out a proper extension for the bar-end shifter, an aerial for the FMGenie, and do something about mirrors - obviously we've filled all the good mirror-mounting places with controls, maybe something on the top of the mudguard...

Barakta will be along in a minute to give her verdict, but it seems that there were zero shoulder issues, and the main point of concern is her somewhat unconventional hip...

Here are some of the photos, taken while there was something that could loosely be described as daylight available.  I need a better camera - moving targets were not an option:

(http://www.ductilebiscuit.net/gallery_albums/sprint/IMG_3188.sized.jpg)

(http://www.ductilebiscuit.net/gallery_albums/sprint/IMG_3176.sized.jpg)

(http://www.ductilebiscuit.net/gallery_albums/sprint/IMG_3180.sized.jpg)

(http://www.ductilebiscuit.net/gallery_albums/sprint/IMG_3185.sized.jpg)

I make it 10.5km for barakta, a little more for me.  Perfectly respectable first ride, especially as it wasn't warm.   :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: LindaG on November 16, 2011, 05:37:26 pm
Congratulations barakta!  Sounds like a most promising start.   :D
Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: interzen on November 16, 2011, 05:38:02 pm
Chain looks a bit ..... oh, hang on, wrong thread ...

Any chance of a few close-up shots of the dual-action brake lever and associated cableage? Or pointer to appropriate pics of same.

Enquiring minds, and all that (this has potential ramifications for n+1.51)

1 - Pugsley is far too fat to be considered a mere n+1 :)
Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: Polar Bear on November 16, 2011, 05:39:45 pm
Looks awesome!   :thumbsup:

Kim,  have you wired two dyno-powered Pixeo's together and if so, in parallel or series?   I wouldn't mind doing something similar myself with a B&M toplight and a Pixeo or B&M Seculite.
Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: jogler on November 16, 2011, 05:40:29 pm
Congratulations barakta!  Sounds like a most promising start.   :D

+1
 :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: Kim on November 16, 2011, 05:48:05 pm
Chain looks a bit ..... oh, hang on, wrong thread ...

Any chance of a few close-up shots of the dual-action brake lever and associated cableage? Or pointer to appropriate pics of same.

Here's a photo (http://www.ductilebiscuit.net/gallery/view_photo.php?full=1&set_albumName=sprint&id=IMG_3161) of the right-hand controls as is.  I'll get one of the cable run when I next have the seat off.

The cable from the bar-end shifter is currently just flapping about, but when we've decided that that's how it'll stay, I'll drill a hole to route it under the grip and through the middle of the bar.

And yes, the chain is actually a bit slack.  I erred on the side of caution when shortening it, on the basis that we'd probably tweak the boom length.  Only an issue in small/small.


Kim,  have you wired two dyno-powered Pixeo's together and if so, in parallel or series?   I wouldn't mind doing something similar myself with a B&M toplight and a Pixeo or B&M Seculite.

They're in parallel, off the rear light output of the Cyo, which is a switched, senso version, in anticipation of a hub dynamo at some point in future.  I didn't think of wiring them in series, but that might be problematic given the bottle dynamo seems to limit to ~8V internally.  (Ideally I'd hack the zeners out, so the Cyo could make use of the extra voltage, but it didn't seem particularly enthusiastic about coming apart non-destructively.)
Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: Auntie Helen on November 16, 2011, 06:36:13 pm
Good luck with the Mirrycle, I find they give up within a few months (something within them cracks so you can't do them up tight enough to stop them flopping). I've still got the one ICE sent me with Alfie.
Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: barakta on November 16, 2011, 08:17:08 pm
It was good - very nice not to feel like my shoulders will never go back into joint again which is what upwrongs do to me.  Main issue is I have no leg fitness at all so my dodgy leg is complaining a bit - but hopefully improving my fitness will sort that. 

:D  :thumbsup: zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz (tirednow)
Title: arkta
Post by: Quint on November 16, 2011, 08:36:01 pm
Good luck with the Mirrycle, I find they give up within a few months (something within them cracks so you can't do them up tight enough to stop them flopping). I've still got the one ICE sent me with Alfie.


       The pair I have have got 11,000 miles on them including cobbles and the odd bridleway (yes on a Q-NT) and no problems.
              (I also have to fold them in to get the trike in the shed - on a daily basis)

                                 Best wishes Barakta, leg strength will come quickly but just go gently until it does

                                                 
Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: clarion on November 16, 2011, 08:58:26 pm
Yay!
Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: Peter on November 16, 2011, 11:36:20 pm
K and B, what a positive thread!  Hope you'll both have lots of fun!
Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: Cudzoziemiec on November 16, 2011, 11:42:21 pm
Much  ;D-ness in this thread. I can see I should start popping into this board from time to time!
Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: mrcharly-YHT on November 17, 2011, 12:01:53 am
It was good - very nice not to feel like my shoulders will never go back into joint again which is what upwrongs do to me.  Main issue is I have no leg fitness at all so my dodgy leg is complaining a bit - but hopefully improving my fitness will sort that. 

:D  :thumbsup: zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz (tirednow)
The studded tyre won't have helped much - they are much harder work than a normal tyre (although I believe you are going for M+s to avoid puncture-fettling).

Congrats, that's a lovely bike.
Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: Kim on November 17, 2011, 12:13:47 am
The studded tyre won't have helped much - they are much harder work than a normal tyre (although I believe you are going for M+s to avoid puncture-fettling).

Indeed.  The ones on the front won't have helped much, either, on account of being made of grated cheese with a stated maximum pressure of 35PSI (which in the interests of sanity I obviously exceeded by a healthy margin, while wincing, with a finger in one ear).  I believe that the M+s are on their way.


Quote
Congrats, that's a lovely bike.

Isn't it just?  I've really warmed to it over the last couple of days.  That everything Just Worked says more about ICE's build quality than my fettling skills.

I'm looking forward to sticking the boom out an inch or so and taking it for a proper ride myself, once the tyres arrive.
Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: Kim on November 17, 2011, 01:09:37 pm
Yay, the Marathon Pluses just arrived  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: Tigerbiten on November 17, 2011, 05:24:56 pm
Yay, the Marathon Pluses just arrived  :thumbsup:
And now you need 3 hands to fit them .........  ;D :P  ???
Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: Arch on November 17, 2011, 05:26:01 pm
It was good - very nice not to feel like my shoulders will never go back into joint again which is what upwrongs do to me.  Main issue is I have no leg fitness at all so my dodgy leg is complaining a bit - but hopefully improving my fitness will sort that. 

:D  :thumbsup: zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz (tirednow)

Yay!  :thumbsup:

The legs will sort themselves out in no time I'm sure.

Congratulations!
Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: Kim on November 17, 2011, 06:02:58 pm
So, having done battle with the Marathon Pluses, I was in no mood to do any proper metalwork, so the shifter extension will have to wait.  Meanwhile, I worked out a reasonable looking way to mount a Cyclestar mirror (https://yacf.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=48359.msg1095343#msg1095343):

(http://www.ductilebiscuit.net/gallery_albums/sprint/IMG_3206.sized.jpg) (http://www.ductilebiscuit.net/gallery/view_photo.php?full=1&set_albumName=sprint&id=IMG_3206)


interzen, here's a pic showing the rest of the cable run:

(http://www.ductilebiscuit.net/gallery_albums/sprint/IMG_3209.sized.jpg) (http://www.ductilebiscuit.net/gallery/view_photo.php?full=1&set_albumName=sprint&id=IMG_3209)

The cable from the left disc brake is zip-tied on either side of the stem.  The one from the right is unmodified, following the Auntie Helen routing.  Rear disc brake goes to left hand lever.
Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: Mr Arch on November 17, 2011, 06:15:46 pm
It's a fantastic job, Kim.
I do like the lights on the back of the mudguards.
Title: Re: arkta
Post by: Regulator on November 17, 2011, 06:40:40 pm
Good luck with the Mirrycle, I find they give up within a few months (something within them cracks so you can't do them up tight enough to stop them flopping). I've still got the one ICE sent me with Alfie.


       The pair I have have got 11,000 miles on them including cobbles and the odd bridleway (yes on a Q-NT) and no problems.
              (I also have to fold them in to get the trike in the shed - on a daily basis)

                                 Best wishes Barakta, leg strength will come quickly but just go gently until it does

                                               

I had the same experience as Auntie Helen (as those at Mildenhall might recall).  I found that supperglue will fix the problem - but you then lose the ablity to move the mirror.

I bought a bar end mirror rom Halfrauds - works well  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: TimO on November 17, 2011, 06:43:25 pm
I was wondering how cheaply you could go for the video camera route, and you can get a 640×480 camera for less than £10 (http://www.active-robots.com/sensors/camera-vision/cmos-camera-640x480.html) which you can talk to over I2C.  Output could then be via a Nokia 6100 display (http://www.coolcomponents.co.uk/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=45_71&products_id=147&osCsid=3994471612face911d49ae77b77b3977), which is 128×128, but possibly a bit too small.  It is cheap though, at less than £25.  If you wanted something brighter and larger, Cool Components do a 480×272 (http://www.coolcomponents.co.uk/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=45_71&products_id=686&osCsid=3994471612face911d49ae77b77b3977) screen which is 4.3" across, but is £100.  Use something like a Teensy (http://www.pjrc.com/store/teensy.html) to wire them together, add a battery, and you've got a basic rear view camera system, although you'll still need to find somewhere to mount it that's visible and usable.

Say another £10 for a chunkyish rechargeable battery, another £15 for random components, and you could do it for around £10+£25+£10 ($16)+£10+£15 = £70.

You could have issues if the IO requirements conflict, IIRC the Teensy uses the same pins for I2C and SPI, so if you needed both, you'd have to talk to one of them using software drivers rather than relying on the ease of using the built in hardware and easily available libraries.  If one of the interfaces was serial, I think you'd be OK, because the Teensy's serial interface and SPI/I2C pins are separate.  Alternatively you could use one of the larger Arduino or clones, which often have significantly more IO than the fairly minimal Teensy.

You ought to be able to send data across between the camera and screen fast enough using SPI and/or I2C, although using a serial link may be a bit more challenging.  The Teensy can probably do it, since it'll operate at 16MHz if you run it at 5V (you're not supposed to run them faster than 8MHz is you need to power them at 3V, but they'll often work faster).  You could even conceivably run the video stream across to a memory card as well, if you wanted a live video feed for post accident evidence.  Talking to a SD card isn't that difficult, although I'm unsure whether you could run video to it fast enough using the SPI link only (all SD cards talk SPI, but they also use other proprietary interfaces, which aren't publicly detailed, to move data around a lot faster).

I've used Teensys quite a bit now, and they are dead easy to program.  If you could use the standard libraries to send the data between the two devices, then you would just need to write some code to convert between the data formats of the two devices (and possibly do things like automagic brightness control).  That should be a doodle.  The Teensy is basically programmed in a variant of C++ called Wiring (if you use the Arduino environment).

Needing a larger screen would bump the price up quite a bit though, unless you can find somewhere that will sell a cheap screen for a lot less than £100 (which I haven't after a cursory Google around).
Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: TimO on November 17, 2011, 07:00:33 pm
... Needing a larger screen would bump the price up quite a bit though, unless you can find somewhere that will sell a cheap screen for a lot less than £100 (which I haven't after a cursory Google around).

I guess you could always use something like this (http://nl.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Newhaven-Display/NHD-312-25664UCB2/?qs=sGAEpiMZZMshRHSPqbouvK1hwgkEjgCbGplAf%2fO74DQ%3d) OLED display, but it's resolution of 256×64 is significantly lower, and non-colour.  You'd have to just take a thin slice out of the camera imagery (which may be OK, after all you don't need much information vertically) and possibly dither it slightly to get some pseudo-grey scale effect.  Not ideal, but at less than 30 Euros, potentially a lot cheaper.

(I've also ignored MOQs and P&P, so that could bump the price up.  If you keep the order to PJRC low, you won't pay VAT and/or duty).
Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: Adam on November 17, 2011, 07:22:25 pm
I hadn't looked at this thread for at least a couple of weeks, as I didn't think it would turn up so quickly.

Lots of good photos.

NICE.

Very nice.

 :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: tonycollinet on November 17, 2011, 08:20:27 pm
I've also not looked in for a week as a result of being out of the country.

Fantastic looking machine - Congrats Barakta.

Question regarding the new mesh seat cover - does it have any features for lumbar support. I've been having back problems on mine, and although tightening and loosening appropriate straps has helped I'm hoping for a better solution.
Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: Notsototalnewbie on November 17, 2011, 08:29:48 pm
Oooooh! Congrats, barakta! A WARTY beckons...

I don't know much about trikes, but I certainly do know of the joy of putting Marathon Pluses on small wheels, thanks to Rob's Brommie. Ye Gods....
Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: Kim on November 17, 2011, 10:59:00 pm
Barakta said "Can we go for a bike ride?".  I suggested we ate some food, then her mum phoned and stuff.  But she still wanted to go for a bike ride, so we did.   :D

13.8km down the Rea Valley cyclepath and back, by the light of B&M's finest.  Proper tyres improved the handling significantly.  Lack of studs made the dynamo audible, but not annoyingly so.  The flag-mounted aerial meant she could hear me from a decent range without too much static.  We were slightly faster than last time.  And the LED 'runway lights' down the path were pretty as ever.  A brummie rode past while we were stopped for a legs break and made Close Encounters references.

The mirrors stayed put, but it's hard to tell how useful they are in the dark.

We also seem to have perfected the art of getting the trike through the doorway easily as a two-person lift, without having to fold any handlebars or anything.

All set for a FNRttC, I reckon!   ;D
Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: TimO on November 17, 2011, 11:25:43 pm
All set for a FNRttC, I reckon!   ;D

Yay, Southend beckons!

Southend is probably the easiest of the FNRttC routes, but it could be brisk by that point, so proper clothing is going to be a very good idea.

Worst case scenario, if barakta does find it a bit of a slog, and feels like she is slowing the ride down, I'll certainly have something close to the current route on my GPS.  I know the route to Stock for 3amses, and know the traditional route along the cinder path, as well as the alternative (which has a short sharp shock in it, but is better later on when you may meet pedestrians on the cinder path, and it's hard to argue that you didn't notice the vast number of "No Cycling" signs. ;D)  I think Simon would be fine with a small group dropping off the back, especially if I was there (having been a TEC quite a lot over the last four years!) ... but that's pretty unlikely if barakta does even a moderate amount of cycling between then and now.

With Southend, the normal problem is getting there too early, before the Cafe is open, so it's really one of the better rides to do as a first time FNRttC, even if the initial part of the ride through East London isn't exactly the most exciting and scenic of routes!

(Does barakta need CTC membership?  If so contact Simon asap for Affiliate membership via The Fridays, which is cheaper than proper CTC membership, but still needs to be put through the system by Simon, and at this point it could be getting close).
Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: Wowbagger on November 17, 2011, 11:28:21 pm
If Barakta does decide to have a crack at Southend next month and wants somewhere to recuperate before the return trip to Brum, she's welcome to come to our place for a while.
Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: Kim on November 17, 2011, 11:42:19 pm
Thanks for the enthusiasm guys, but she's really not going to be up to that sort of distance (or even that sort of pace) that soon.  Certainly not at night, in December, which I'd be thinking twice about if I had any sense.

Southend in May next year ought to be a goer, though.  And I am planning to organise some sort of barakta-friendly forum ride once we've had a proper opportunity to see how much she can realistically do (which is the plan for this weekend).
Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: TimO on November 18, 2011, 08:33:14 am
Southend in December is possibly not the ideal ride to start with. :)

You're going to have practice things like Mordor central as well, and work out optimal stations, which presumably you've done with your recumbent bike anyway.
Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: Kim on November 18, 2011, 08:22:37 pm
Today, the dreaded disability mod:

(http://www.ductilebiscuit.net/gallery_albums/sprint/IMG_3217.sized.jpg)

(http://www.ductilebiscuit.net/gallery_albums/sprint/IMG_3220.sized.jpg)

Works nicely with me doing my human turbo-trainer impression, we'll see how it goes on the road, and maybe shorten it a bit.  When we're happy, I'll give it a nice coating of Sugru, so it's grippier and doesn't look like a sawn-off Entific Cochlear toothbrush (http://www.connevans.co.uk/products/DCBA738.html).


While we're on the subject, demonstration that the parking brake pin is actually easier for barakta than for normal people, due to her incredibly strong little finger (and of course easier than a friction shifter would be):

(http://www.ductilebiscuit.net/gallery_albums/sprint/IMG_3222.sized.jpg)
Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: loadsabikes on November 19, 2011, 08:24:24 am
That shifter extension looks like it grew there!
I re-locate back to Blighty from France next week, I could make you some mirror pylons in light tube if you found that you wanted the mirrors a bit further outboard.
It's a great looking build all round.
Many happy miles.
Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: Auntie Helen on November 19, 2011, 08:26:04 am
Mirror pylons - sounds good!

I'm beginning to wonder about some kind of mirror mount from the top of the kingposts... i assume this is possible but obviously the mirrors would need to bend outward a bit from that starting point.
Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: loadsabikes on November 19, 2011, 08:42:36 am
A mounting that clamps around the top spacer and then a braced tubular arm to mount a mirror just above the mudguard.
The main criteria is to damp out vibration.
Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: Cunobelin on November 19, 2011, 08:58:34 am
Have a look at the Terracycle cockpit mounts (http://www.terracycle.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&Store_Code=T&Category_Code=CP)

Not cheap, but well designed and adaptable.... may give some inspiration

Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: TimO on November 19, 2011, 10:29:25 am
Have a look at the Terracycle cockpit mounts (http://vhttp://www.terracycle.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&Store_Code=T&Category_Code=CP)

Not cheap, but well designed and adaptable.... may give some inspiration

That's quite neat.  It positions the mirrors nice and widely away from the arms, and allows mounting of other items on additional "bar" space.  It would be quite exposed if you have to dismantle the bike for transport or storage, and you may find yourself repeatedly loosening and tightening the clamps, with consequent eventual damage to the threads though.

It looks like it would work quite well for light loads like computers and mirrors, although I suspect if you put anything too heavy on it, like a GPS or light, you may find that vibration caused it to loose rigidity, and rattle itself into another position (although that may depend on how tight you can adjust the clamps).
Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: Auntie Helen on November 19, 2011, 12:39:22 pm
Cunobelin's lnk doesn't work for me   :(
Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: delthebike on November 19, 2011, 12:43:00 pm
Cunobelin's lnk doesn't work for me   :(
Try this

http://www.terracycle.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&Store_Code=T&Category_Code=CP
Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: Auntie Helen on November 19, 2011, 12:50:09 pm
Del! You still exist! I thought like Enoch you had been taken away...
Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: Wendy on November 19, 2011, 05:30:02 pm
Terracycle stuff is VERY good. They would be my preferred solution.
Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: Kim on November 19, 2011, 07:18:44 pm
Terracycle stuff is VERY good. They would be my preferred solution.

We'll see how the Cyclestar works out in the current position, first.  It's a bit small, but its a very tidy solution, and the couple of washers and bolt required are a fair bit cheaper and lighter than the Terracycle stuff.

The Cyclestar went droopy on our ride today, but at the ball joint, not the mounting (which is still nice and solid, as is the mudguard bracket it's bolted on to).  I don't think I'd done it up especially tight to start with, so have nipped it up properly.  We'll see how it goes - I know the one I have on the Streetmachine occasionally benefits from having its ball joint tightened after getting bashed about on trains, but is otherwise well-behaved.


Today's ride was 20k, half of which was on real roads with lumps in.  Barakta had a hard time on the climbs, but seems to have got the hang of the front shifter (after an epic chain-suck incident on the first attempt to change out of the granny ring that required the removal of the chainring guard to un-jam), if not actually the use of gears.  She seems to be coping with traffic okay, considering that she was barely riding above walking pace for much of the time.  If anything her road positioning tends to the overly assertive, which around here is liable to lead to excessive hooting and shouting abuse, but relatively little splatty death.  She needs to learn the art of looking like she's making an effort to keep left, while still being far enough out to prevent overtakes at pinch points (thus causing the driver behind to think the road is too narrow, rather than there's a cyclist in the way).  It'll come.
Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: Tigerbiten on November 19, 2011, 08:25:12 pm
Today's ride was 20k, half of which was on real roads with lumps in.  Barakta had a hard time on the climbs, but seems to have got the hang of the front shifter (after an epic chain-suck incident on the first attempt to change out of the granny ring that required the removal of the chainring guard to un-jam), if not actually the use of gears.  She seems to be coping with traffic okay, considering that she was barely riding above walking pace for much of the time.  If anything her road positioning tends to the overly assertive, which around here is liable to lead to excessive hooting and shouting abuse, but relatively little splatty death.  She needs to learn the art of looking like she's making an effort to keep left, while still being far enough out to prevent overtakes at pinch points (thus causing the driver behind to think the road is too narrow, rather than there's a cyclist in the way).  It'll come.

Congrats on the ride ............  ;D

I remember when I first got my trike 2 years  and ~15k miles ago.
Half the time I was in the granny ring and any hill, not matter how steep, I ended up climbing it in first at ~3 mph.
It took me ~6 hours to cycle the 40 odd miles to Peterborough and thats only 1,400' climbing and nothing much over 5%.
Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: Kim on November 19, 2011, 09:51:02 pm
I remember when I first got my trike 2 years  and ~15k miles ago.
Half the time I was in the granny ring and any hill, not matter how steep, I ended up climbing it in first at ~3 mph.
It took me ~6 hours to cycle the 40 odd miles to Peterborough and thats only 1,400' climbing and nothing much over 5%.

Yeah, it's always hard work at first.  If she manages to keep things up at the current rate she should find it getting a lot easier fairly soon though.


Today's fettle: shortened the toothbrush handle on the bar-end shifter and applied Sugru...

(http://www.ductilebiscuit.net/gallery_albums/sprint/IMG_3236.sized.jpg)
(slight focus fail, but you get the idea)
Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: Cunobelin on November 19, 2011, 11:45:39 pm
Cunobelin's lnk doesn't work for me   :(

Fixed!
Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: TimO on November 20, 2011, 11:16:02 am
Yeah, it's always hard work at first.  If she manages to keep things up at the current rate she should find it getting a lot easier fairly soon though.

Aha, so whilst she may not make it in time for the next FNRttC, we could go go for a replication of the infamous January 2009 WARTY (http://yacf.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=13191.msg242335#msg242335). ;D

(http://jakal.sp.ph.ic.ac.uk/~timo/WARTY_Jan09_RidersIntoTheDistance_thumb320.jpg) (http://jakal.sp.ph.ic.ac.uk/~timo/WARTY_Jan09/WARTY_Jan09_RidersIntoTheDistance.jpg)
Apologies to whoever's picture this is, I managed to loose the details.

The controls look quite professional now, although I suspect they'd confuse the blazes out of anyone expecting more traditional recumbent gear controls!
Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: Kim on November 20, 2011, 02:34:58 pm
The controls look quite professional now, although I suspect they'd confuse the blazes out of anyone expecting more traditional recumbent gear controls!

Yes, I keep reaching for the bar-end and pushing it in the wrong direction!

On the other hand, the brakes are more intuitive than the normal ICE configuration.
Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: DrMekon on November 20, 2011, 03:28:05 pm
Kim - you appear to have missed your calling as a constructeur. That is some epic fettling.
Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: Kim on November 20, 2011, 06:40:55 pm
Some minor ergonomic jibbling today.

The finished bar-end shifter:
(http://www.ductilebiscuit.net/gallery_albums/sprint/IMG_3254.sized.jpg)

And creative application of part of an Ergon GC2 on the left, to give two comfortable hand positions for a fairly non-standard hand:
(http://www.ductilebiscuit.net/gallery_albums/sprint/IMG_3253.sized.jpg)
(http://www.ductilebiscuit.net/gallery_albums/sprint/IMG_3249.sized.jpg)
(http://www.ductilebiscuit.net/gallery_albums/sprint/IMG_3246.sized.jpg)

I know that second position looks unnatural, but it's the way barakta would instinctively hold a bar.  Nearly all the strength is in that little finger (the thumb is pretty much cosmetic, the middle finger is permanently bent, and the wrist doesn't rotate).  The key thing here is keeping her shoulder in joint through the range of steering motion, which thanks to the adjustment of the ICE handlebar, is much easier than we expected.
Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: DrMekon on November 20, 2011, 07:15:05 pm
If anything her road positioning tends to the overly assertive, which around here is liable to lead to excessive hooting and shouting abuse, but relatively little splatty death.  She needs to learn the art of looking like she's making an effort to keep left, while still being far enough out to prevent overtakes at pinch points (thus causing the driver behind to think the road is too narrow, rather than there's a cyclist in the way).  It'll come.

MrsMekon is the same. She rides our trike right in the middle of the road. Her reasoning is that there will never be an opportunity for drivers to safely squeeze past, so she does absolutely nothing that suggests at the hint of such an opportunity. She doesn't expect drivers to pass her like a car - she enforces it. I've given up riding assertively behind her when she's on the trike, as it looks ridiculous with me riding in the right hand tyre well.
Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: fboab on November 20, 2011, 09:44:39 pm
Kim - you appear to have missed your calling as a constructeur. That is some epic fettling.
Indeedy.
I hope Barakta appreciates it all in the best possible way- with lots of riding.
Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: Regulator on November 21, 2011, 07:25:27 am
Today, the dreaded disability mod:

(http://www.ductilebiscuit.net/gallery_albums/sprint/IMG_3217.sized.jpg)


Looking at the photo I thought "Ooh look - a cochlear implant..."


That's my jacket...
Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: Pixie on November 21, 2011, 09:07:11 am
after an epic chain-suck incident on the first attempt to change out of the granny ring that required the removal of the chainring guard to un-jam

This is not a Barakta specific problem - this exact thing has happened to me one all but one of my rides so far (though yesterday I managed to rescue it before it jammed so completely). I've been using bar-end shifters on my Longstaff for the past 14 years, and have never had this problem, so it's seems unlikely that it's down to mis-use of the leavers, though I can't think what else it could be. The position is rotated 90deg on the ICE which I suppose might be influencing my use of them.  Only think I could think of yesterday was that maybe I'd overshifted slightly.
Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: Kim on November 21, 2011, 12:39:49 pm
We're chalking that one up to user error.  Having never ridden anything with a front mech before, let alone a non-indexed one, barakta made the rookie mistake of being gentle with the shifter and overly assertive with the pedals while changing up.  She seems to have got the hang of it now (if not actually knowing when to do it).  I've also re-fitted the chainring guard in a position that should hopefully be less chain-jammy.

I don't rate the ICE positioning of their factory-fitted bar-end shifters, it seems arsebackwards given the natural rotation of wrists, and I reckon the cable routing is nicer on the far side.   Not that it's really that critical, unless you have a barakta-style disability, or are used to a different configuration.
Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: Auntie Helen on November 21, 2011, 04:47:37 pm
I like cable routing on the near side as I don't feel the cable there (because of where I grip) but if it were routed on the far side I'd feel it under my fingers.
Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: Kim on November 21, 2011, 05:10:34 pm
There's a wedgy thing supplied with the shifters that smooths out the lump of the cable to give a cam-like profile rather than a lump.  No idea if ICE use it.  It makes the bar fit the crook of my fingers on the far side, but would cause a lump under the thumb/palm of hand on the nearside.  I find that my hands spend most of their time resting forward onto the bar.  Of course, the bar position on my Streetmachine isn't quite the same as on a Trice (not that I've played with an optimal seat/bar configuration for myself yet).

Regardless, it's a non-descision for barakta - she can only reasonably work the lever with it pointing away from her.
Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: cycleman on November 21, 2011, 10:13:10 pm
i found i had to gently adjust the angle of the lower chain tube at the roller with a pair of pipe grips to stop the chain derailing when back peddling.it would get jammed between the inner chain ring and the chain guard .like you i have moved the chain guard as close to the chain rings as i can and it seems ok at the moment .just to clarify a little , when i back peddled when reversing the the chain  tube angle would pull the chain off the middle chain ring then off the inner and jam  :)
Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: Tigerbiten on November 22, 2011, 12:22:05 am
i found i had to gently adjust the angle of the lower chain tube at the roller with a pair of pipe grips to stop the chain derailing when back peddling.it would get jammed between the inner chain ring and the chain guard .like you i have moved the chain guard as close to the chain rings as i can and it seems ok at the moment .just to clarify a little , when i back peddled when reversing the the chain  tube angle would pull the chain off the middle chain ring then off the inner and jam  :)
That used to happen to me on the old trike.
I fixed the problem/glitch by moving the chaintube to the outside on the jocky wheel.

I have a similar problem on the new trike.
If the sidepods full and pressing on the chaintube, when I backpedal the chain jumps of the back hub sprocket.
Hopefully the mod to hold the ends of bags further out has solved the problem.
Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: Pixie on November 22, 2011, 07:32:25 am
Thanks Cycleman, Tigerbiten, I hadn't thought about the lower chain angle (Duh!  ::-) ) Hasn't happened to me pedaling backwards (yet) just on changing from granny to middle chainring - but it certainly seems more likely cause than user error in my case. I guess how likely it is to happen could depend on rider height (I'm on the short side). Also the easy adjust chain kit on their demo trikes might explain why I didn't have the issue there despite being on and off the granny like nobody's business.

Time for me to learn to truly fettle rather than just doing normal bike maintenance...
Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: Kim on December 20, 2011, 03:23:24 pm
Because I forgot to take photos at the time...

The finished right hand controls, with the bar-end shifter cable routed through the middle of the bar.  This required some precision filing to make a cable-friendly hole, and copious self-amalgamating tape to prevent the foam grip rotating[1] (potentially causing wear on the cable outer) when the grip shifter is operated:
(http://www.ductilebiscuit.net/gallery_albums/sprint/IMG_3267.sized.jpg) (http://www.ductilebiscuit.net/gallery/view_photo.php?full=1&set_albumName=sprint&id=IMG_3267)


Flag with 1/2-wave colour-coordinated wire aerial for FMGenie (http://www.connevans.co.uk/store/viewCategory.do?id=102) receiver, which ICE have conveniently provided a waterproof pocket for in the back of the seat.  This gives greatly enhanced radio range compared to using the hearing aid direct input cable as an aerial:
(http://www.ductilebiscuit.net/gallery_albums/sprint/IMG_3269.sized.jpg)


More boringly, moved the cycle computer to make room for a battery light on the SpaceGrip.  The Axa dynamo is no SON, and running out of light to see by is an issue at current barakta-climbing speeds:
(http://www.ductilebiscuit.net/gallery_albums/sprint/IMG_3274.sized.jpg)




[1] It also does a pretty good job of preventing the foam from being installed without copious swearing, no matter how much lube you apply.  Fortunately it's short enough that a condom-style unrolling technique can be used.
Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: cycleman on December 20, 2011, 05:54:15 pm
it is looking great  :thumbsup:. is barakta getting a few rides in despite the weather ? :)
Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: Kim on December 20, 2011, 06:26:16 pm
it is looking great  :thumbsup:. is barakta getting a few rides in despite the weather ? :)

Sadly her enthusiasm for either  a) dodging stealth dogs and bike-ninjas on the local Sustrans route  or  b) crawling up what feel like mountains (ie. pretty much anywhere from here by road) in the freezing cold  is fairly low.  She has however been twiddling on the turbo trainer (https://yacf.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=53787.msg1104717#msg1104717) when her energy levels permit.

While the turbo is boring, it has allowed us to fine tune her riding position, which is undoubtedly a good thing.  Current state of play appears to have eliminated all hand/arm/shoulder issues, which I wasn't expecting.  She's also got the hang of the front shifter, if not when to use it in the real world.  Less fortunately, her hip seems to be a sticking point.  It naturally bends the wrong way, which is causing knee stability issues (it flaps about all over the place during the pedal stroke, unless she pays attention), and riding for more than about half an hour (or pushing too hard) seems to result in pain in her hip joint.  It (along with most of her other joints) gets much worse at the wrong time of the month, which limits when she can ride.

We know the joint is anatomically normal from a CT scan (though that doesn't eliminate soft tissue weirdness), and serious physioterrorists at the RNOH checked for leg-length issues while investigating her shoulder problems a few years ago, so we know it's not that.  Beyond that, not a clue.  She walks strangely and has poor balance, but we've no idea whether they're directly related.  One-footed pedalling shows a massive strength difference between her legs, with the dodgy hip being on the weaker side.  My gut instinct says that developing quads through cycling will help stabilise the knee, but I've no idea about the hip.  Current thinking is to keep going with the turbo and short rides for the time being, and if the hip doesn't show signs of improvement on its own, go and see what the friendly local sports physios have to say about it.

 :-\

Bodies: they make dérailleurs and Windows boxes look simple and deterministic.
Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: cycleman on December 20, 2011, 06:49:02 pm
 i will be happy to come up your way for a slow potter in the spring . speed distance uninportent . i have got my adventure pretty sorted now . i am not riding much at the moment as i am saving to go the the early birds camping meet in jan.i might do my 50 mile christmas card run tomorrow   :). i must not leave it till the new year like last year   :-[ ;)
Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: barakta on December 20, 2011, 07:20:08 pm
ObCorrection: I have confirmed normal x-rays not a CT scan, they've not CTed me below the spine and I don't think they CTed me as a baby.
Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: mrcharly-YHT on December 22, 2011, 11:55:00 am
Lower spine strength?
Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: barakta on December 22, 2011, 06:31:33 pm
Dunno...  I probably ought to see the private physio nr work for a proper assessment and so on, my GP would refer me to hospital if the physio recommended it as the GP and physio have a decent professional relationship. 

Half the issue is that 'spine issues' are part of my syndrome but I don't officially have them but...  And no one ever looks at more than 1 square centimetre of you at once to join the dots even tho the leg bones connect to the spine bones and if my vestibular system is as intermittent (it would be better if it didn't work at all) I could be having balance related musculoskeletal issues mainly...
Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: Kim on January 15, 2012, 06:12:47 pm
During the train journey back from yesterday's ride (https://yacf.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=54738.msg1139206#msg1139206), barakta found some difficulty performing the standard Trice user pick-up-by-the-rear-rack-and-pull-it manoeuvre.  She reckoned an easily gripped handle a few inches higher than the current rack height would help.  (For obvious physics reasons, it's quite heavy if you pull it by the back of the seat.)

Shouldn't be too tricky, so I looked for a U-shaped piece of tubing that wouldn't add too much weight to the trike, and came up with this:

(http://www.ductilebiscuit.net/gallery_albums/sprint/IMG_3349_001.sized.jpg)
(http://www.ductilebiscuit.net/gallery_albums/sprint/IMG_3351.sized.jpg)

That's the lock's standard mounting bracket cut down to share a mounting bolt with the slightly offset Excellent Infini Rear Light™, and some old innertube and self-amalgamating tape technology to provide something for the lock to rest against on the other side to reduce vibration and stress on the bracket when used as a handle.  By fitting the lock's side of the bracket mount thingy at an angle, it doesn't foul the rack bag.

It passes the handle test, I just hope the lock bracket doesn't turn out to be made of cheese.  The net weight is tiny, assuming you'd be carrying the lock anyway, and it gives somewhere sensible to mount the lock.
Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: TimO on January 15, 2012, 06:21:41 pm
That's a neat solution.

Are you relying on the old mounting bit on the U section of the lock to stop the lock rotating?  I'd be worried that this is mostly reliant on friction to stop it rotating around and eventually hitting the mudguard, but I can't remember exactly how things are fitted, so that may not occur.  If it did, I'm not sure what an easy solution would be.
Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: Kim on January 15, 2012, 06:24:21 pm
Unfortunately yes.  It's held in place by a grub screw, and seems reasonably secure at the moment.  I suspect I may have to come back to it with a load of epoxy at some point, though...
Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: TimO on January 15, 2012, 06:34:31 pm
Ah right, I had a vague memory of a grub screw (the mount was removed from my lock about 30 seconds after I got it home), but that's really just increasing friction.

Possibly a couple of long bolts on the side of the carrier could hold the lock in place (or more specifically stop rotation), although you'd have to make sure the lock was fitted otherwise they'd make a lovely thing to catch your hand/leg/other vulnerable part on them.
Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: arvid on January 15, 2012, 07:19:18 pm
Assuming you'll be carrying the Carradice anyway, I see a nice eye above the rear pocket and suggest some velcro to connect that eye with the D-lock.
Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: Kim on January 15, 2012, 07:28:33 pm
 :facepalm:  Simple and (hopefully) effective!

ETA: pair of Mk 1 velcro straps installed.   :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: TimO on January 15, 2012, 07:32:02 pm
Assuming you'll be carrying the Carradice anyway, I see a nice eye above the rear pocket and suggest some velcro to connect that eye with the D-lock.

Indeed, that makes sense.  If the Carradice wasn't being used, the same velcro strap could probably just hold it against the carrier (although it would probably need to be released to be used as a handle).
Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: Tewdric on January 15, 2012, 07:46:48 pm
Dunno...  I probably ought to see the private physio nr work for a proper assessment and so on, my GP would refer me to hospital if the physio recommended it as the GP and physio have a decent professional relationship. 

Half the issue is that 'spine issues' are part of my syndrome but I don't officially have them but...  And no one ever looks at more than 1 square centimetre of you at once to join the dots even tho the leg bones connect to the spine bones and if my vestibular system is as intermittent (it would be better if it didn't work at all) I could be having balance related musculoskeletal issues mainly...

IANOPhysio but some careful work on the turbo, concentraing on keeping good posture and everything aligned as you would like it should target the muscles that you need to be doing it for you.  If your body remembers how to do it on the turbo it will probably remember it on the road when your mind is occupied with other things.

Is there any mileage in considering a wrist support just aft of the left handgrip?  I'm thinking tribar forearm rest like this:

http://winor-xlc.elfriede.eikona-server.de/bild.php?src=portal/artikeldatenbank/pics/lenker/2501520100_1.jpg&new_max_width=476&new_max_height=320

It might allow a better range of options for gripping the grip without forcing your hand to do something it's going to get bored with over longer distances? 

Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: Kim on January 15, 2012, 08:18:22 pm
IANOPhysio but some careful work on the turbo, concentraing on keeping good posture and everything aligned as you would like it should target the muscles that you need to be doing it for you.  If your body remembers how to do it on the turbo it will probably remember it on the road when your mind is occupied with other things.

Yesterday's ride suggested that this may well be the case.  As far as I could tell (and I did specifically look on a number of ocasions) her pedalling technique was identical to that on the turbo, except when she started to bonk on the last couple of km, where her cadence dropped and the knee started to wiggle around a bit.


Quote
Is there any mileage in considering a wrist support just aft of the left handgrip?  I'm thinking tribar forearm rest like this:

We did think about that, but it's probably unnecessary, as the combination of fused wrist bones and retracted tendons in her 'middle' (technically ring) finger mean that her left forearm can effectively be thought of as a rigid hook - unlike you or I, no muscle tension is needed for her to hold her left hand on the bar at all.  The Ergon bar-end provides something for the 'hook' to rest on comfortably.


Barakta managed three hours riding in the cold[1] yesterday with the only complaints being a hacking cough and a minor arm injury and wrenched hip from manhandling the trike out of a lift, so I think we're winning on ergonomics for now.  Just need to put some more miles (and turbo hours) in.   :D



[1] At one point barakta pointed out that the fingers on her left hand weren't swollen.  Something they're extremely prone to do in the cold, especially if they're being made to do things they don't like doing.  So it looks like we got the gloves right, too.
Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: Tewdric on January 15, 2012, 08:56:22 pm
Fair enough - I was thinking more of variety and support surface area, IYSWIM.  You've both done a quite amazing job so far. 

A 3 hour ride is not to be sniffed at and more than an awful lot of cyclists ever do. 

If you continue to keep focussed on what is possible, as you clearly are, then I'm looking forward to the way this thread is going to develop into the summer...

Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: TimO on January 15, 2012, 09:00:28 pm
A 3 hour ride is not to be sniffed at and more than an awful lot of cyclists ever do. 

Definitely.  I know plenty of people who whilst probably capable of it, wouldn't dream of trying to do that sort of duration of time on a bike.  Barakta is definitely to be congratulated on pushing herself to do that, I'm sure it's been a lot of effort to get this far, and far that matter, a not inconsequential amount of cash as well.
Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: Kim on January 15, 2012, 09:38:54 pm
a not inconsequential amount of cash as well.

Sssh!  We're not supposed to think about that.   :)
Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: Kim on February 26, 2012, 03:32:46 pm
In what's probably a reasonable conclusion to this thread for the time being, I should document a couple of finishing touches.

Firstly, mirrors:

Here's the current mirror arrangement we're using on barakta's ICE trike. 

[snip details of bracket modification (https://yacf.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=48359.msg1169344#msg1169344)]

(http://www.ductilebiscuit.net/gallery_albums/trike_mirror/IMG_3421.sized.jpg)
(http://www.ductilebiscuit.net/gallery_albums/trike_mirror/IMG_3428.sized.jpg)


Not bad for a fiver a go  :thumbsup:


Then, because this is a baraktacycle we're talking about, I molished a retroreflective skull-and-cross-sporks flag, to replace the boring (and not particularly visible) ICE effort.  Red reflective tape secures the FMGenie aerial to the flagpole more securely than the cable-ties, for a nice colour-coordinated barber-pole effect:

(http://www.ductilebiscuit.net/gallery_albums/sprint/IMG_3449.sized.jpg)

(http://www.ductilebiscuit.net/gallery_albums/sprint/IMG_3434.sized.jpg)

(The Scotchlite is almost as annoying to photograph as it is to sew with, but believe me when I say it looks pretty awesome in the flesh, if not the flash.)

I've also managed to cram the ICE-supplied front reflector onto the Spacegrip, and we've tidied up the left handlebar a bit and fitted nice new foam.


Just add decent roads, good weather, CAKE and cyclists:

(http://www.ductilebiscuit.net/gallery_albums/barakta_birthday_2012/IMG_3466.sized.jpg)

 :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: Feline on February 26, 2012, 05:35:42 pm
Very nice  :thumbsup:
I did wonder what it was you had been sewing on the sewing thread!
Title: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: Valiant on February 27, 2012, 02:17:10 am
Amazing job! And quite jealous I might add lol
Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: mrcharly-YHT on February 28, 2012, 09:13:30 am
(http://www.ductilebiscuit.net/gallery_albums/sprint/IMG_3449.sized.jpg)

You have got to be the most awesome girlfriend ever. 


(as an ex-boat dweller, I normally have an aversion to 'pirate' flags. But spork-pirates are different).
Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: Kim on February 28, 2012, 01:17:52 pm
Yeah, I was worried that it was crossing the line into tired cliche when I was jibbling the artwork, but the sporks really do make it...
Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: nikki on October 05, 2012, 08:28:23 pm
A cramped and indescribably tedious coach journey has just been given a glorious finale with a sighting of what can only have been the Barakta-cycle stampeding majestically down the Broad Street.

That's worth 50 (http://www.randomstruik.co.za/bookTitles/9781431702435.jpg), right?

Also, being Broad St on a Friday night, it must also have included a fair few items from the thread title...
(I'm sure I heard cheering, too!)

 :)
Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: barakta on October 05, 2012, 08:35:11 pm
That was indeed me failing to keep up with the Critical Mass ride before we bailed for home.  I'm sleep deprived, on lots of pain meds, possibly slightly lurgied and it's my busiest 6 weeks of the year at work so I'm happy with the 16.5km I did manage!

People really do like the trike and sporks flag.
Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: nikki on October 05, 2012, 08:42:40 pm
I'm impressed! Also very happy to have seen the whole assemblage out in the wild!

For the record: from the top deck of the megabus it looked more like them two-wheelers were out in front clearing the route. I'll be moderately disappointed if a second sighting doesn't include a similar vanguard.

Sleep well!
Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: Kim on February 05, 2013, 02:09:01 pm
The mirror mounting proved to be problematic:

Disaster!

Catastrophic failure of one of the b-Twin mirror (http://yacf.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=48359.msg1169344#msg1169344) stalks, just below the ball joint where the stress is greatest:

(http://www.ductilebiscuit.net/gallery_albums/trike_mirror/IMG_3585.sized.jpg) (http://www.ductilebiscuit.net/gallery/view_photo.php?full=1&set_albumName=trike_mirror&id=IMG_3585)

Complete arse to photograph, as it's tiny and hard to get the lighting right without proper gear, but the metal has sheared right off.  We were proceeding along a perfectly reasonable stretch of smoothish tarmac at the time, and it hadn't been bashed recently or anything.  Looks like there might be a manufacturing defect, but it's hard to tell.

That happened a second time (after I rolled the trike on a canal towpath), so evidently not a one-off failure.

The mirrors themselves are optically ideal, but something stronger was needed for the mounting.  Extensive googling revealed that the magic words are "ball stud" (though some fine-tuning of search parameters may be necessary  ;)).

Strong 8mm ball studs seem to be a common piece of gas lift attachment hardware (think car boots and the like), so I was able to obtain some with an M5 thread from a SGS Engineering (http://www.sgs-engineering.com/x1-ball-extension).  This fits the existing socket on the back of the Decathlon mirror.

In the interests of working mirrors I obtained some 100mm zinc plated steel corner brackets from the local DIY shed, though obviously alloy would be preferable for weight reasons:

(http://www.ductilebiscuit.net/gallery_albums/trike_mirror/IMG_3699.sized.jpg)


I drilled out the holes to appropriate size, cut one end down to form an 'L' shape, and gave it a few coats of black spray paint:

(http://www.ductilebiscuit.net/gallery_albums/trike_mirror/IMG_3705.sized.jpg)


Closeup of mounting: M5 bolt, washer, bracket, piece of inner tube, mudguard stay, penny washer, nylock nut.  This is pleasingly secure, but I kept the cable tie around the top of the bracket to prevent rotation if bashed.

(http://www.ductilebiscuit.net/gallery_albums/trike_mirror/IMG_3724.sized.jpg)


To recap, the mirror is one of these, £5 from Decathlon - we're now discarding all the supplied mounting hardware:

(http://www.ductilebiscuit.net/gallery_albums/trike_mirror/IMG_3387.sized.jpg)


Here's the rider's eye shoulder view:

(http://www.ductilebiscuit.net/gallery_albums/trike_mirror/IMG_3710.sized.jpg)


And from the front:

(http://www.ductilebiscuit.net/gallery_albums/trike_mirror/IMG_3718.sized.jpg)


The 'L' is pointing inwards, so the mirrors are slightly inboard of the previous position.  This means they're no longer the widest point of the trike, but doesn't seem to affect the view.

It's had one test ride so far, but in conditions where barakta could barely see what was going on in front of her (dark, wet), so all we really know is that they're reasonably pothole-proof.
Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: Cudzoziemiec on February 05, 2013, 03:04:59 pm
Some solid fettling there.  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: loadsabikes on February 05, 2013, 04:20:27 pm
Having finally got the crap site that is Decathlon to work, I have ordered two new mirrors.
I have some 20mm nylon rod with which to make a couple of pylons to mount on the inside of the mudguard brackets.
I shall use the same 5mm ball fitting that you have.
Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: Kim on February 05, 2013, 04:50:29 pm
Sanity check: it's an 8mm ball.  I think the original was more like 7mm, but the clamp isn't that fussy.
Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: Adam on February 05, 2013, 05:08:11 pm

In the interests of working mirrors I obtained some 100mm zinc plated steel corner brackets from the local DIY shed, though obviously alloy would be preferable for weight reasons:


Nice!

Although it may be best to stick with steel, as vibration failure may be an issue with alloy.
Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: Tigerbiten on February 05, 2013, 05:09:24 pm
You could almost do with making the bracket "T" shaped and bolting the other arm to the mudguard mounting bolt.
It may vibrate less that way.
Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: Kim on February 05, 2013, 06:41:02 pm
You could almost do with making the bracket "T" shaped and bolting the other arm to the mudguard mounting bolt.
It may vibrate less that way.

There's relatively little movement in the bracket itself (and even less in the previous attempt that failed), as it isn't sticking out that far sideways - most of that comes from the mirror, which is cantilevered out whatever you mount it on.  The main problem is that it's directly on top of the unsuspended wheel, which means it gets the full brunt of our wonderful road surfaces.  I did think about trying to isolate the mirror with some rubber washers, but couldn't find a ball stud with enough thread on it.

So over-engineering will have to do.  As long as it doesn't droop or snap off (indeed, steel is probably advantageous there), a blurry image on rough surfaces isn't really a problem - it's pretty hard not to spot a car in these mirrors.

The tyres make a fair difference - the Marathon Pluses at highish pressure for cold-weather puncture avoidance are quite harsh (and slow) compared to the Kojaks we had on over the summer.  It's quite impressive how little of the high-frequency vibration makes it through the cruciform to the seat and handlebars, really.  Another victory for steel, there.
Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: Kim on April 24, 2015, 11:21:05 am
Threadcromancy:  Nice article by barakta for the local cycling campaign about how she's been getting on:

http://pushbikes.org.uk/blog/my-trike-electric
Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: Cudzoziemiec on April 24, 2015, 11:40:51 am
Very clear and informative, without either giving too much detail or skipping over things. Barakta writes well.
Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: barakta on April 24, 2015, 11:45:31 am
I did words.  Kim made them much better.  That's a good 50:50 job I'd say.
Title: Re: Ready the flashing lights, party poppers, dancing girls and brass band...
Post by: Kim on April 24, 2015, 11:48:12 am
And much better for being far too long and largely out of spec.  (They originally wanted a couple of hundred words about electric assist for the magazine, but it was easier to write that for the website.)

I may get round to writing them something more technical about electrickery later.