Yet Another Cycling Forum

General Category => On The Road => Topic started by: Speshact on May 25, 2013, 10:29:05 am

Title: "80% of cyclists have a driving licence" Really?
Post by: Speshact on May 25, 2013, 10:29:05 am
Can I seek some statgeekery help from fellow YACFers who may be kicking their heels over the weekend?

The AA's new fact sheets for its driving instructors and trainee drivers quotes a statistic "80% of cyclists hold a driving licence and 1 in 5 drivers cycle at least once a month (National Travel Survey statistics, 2010)."

I haven't been able to source  the workings for that quote and I have my doubts about the 80% - I suspect that children have been excluded from the workings.

So far, I know from the following datasets
https://www.gov.uk/government/statistical-data-sets/nts06-age-gender-and-modal-breakdown
that (from dataset NTS0608
87% of 5-10 year olds own a bicycle
76& of 11-16 year olds own a bicycle
Under half of all 17+ own a bicycle

and from dataset NTS0609
11-16 year old males on average make 44 trips by bicycle a year, the highest use in any individual age bracket by a good margin.

I also know that "In 2010, 80% of males and 66% of females held a full car driving licence"
https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/8932/nts2010-01.pdf

Can anyone help in determining the validity of the stat, and if it's wrong whqt the real stat is?
Main NTS 2010 url is https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/national-travel-survey-2010
Title: Re: "80% of cyclists have a driving licence" Really?
Post by: Pancho on May 25, 2013, 10:59:09 am
It may be incorrect but still beneficial (to us bikies).

If it breaks down a them-and-us attitude by implying that a person on a bike is the same as a person in a car, then let it run.
Title: Re: "80% of cyclists have a driving licence" Really?
Post by: AndyMorris on May 25, 2013, 11:22:32 am
Which means that the majority of adults that you see cycling on pavements, jumping lights etc, should know better, but either don't care or believe that the rules they learnt to pass their test don't apply when they get on a bike.

What would give them that idea?
Title: Re: "80% of cyclists have a driving licence" Really?
Post by: Pickled Onion on May 25, 2013, 11:37:31 am
To be fair, they don't think the rules apply when they drive a car either.
Title: Re: "80% of cyclists have a driving licence" Really?
Post by: Flynn on May 25, 2013, 11:40:15 am
I saw a figure this week stating 83% of UK cyclists hold driving licences, whereas 82% of the general population hold driving licences. Damned if I can find the website I read it on now though.
Title: Re: "80% of cyclists have a driving licence" Really?
Post by: Pickled Onion on May 25, 2013, 11:44:29 am
This sounds like a good question for More Or Less.

It does look like someone took that 80% figure for males with licences and assumed it would apply uniformly - and that quote doesn't mention adult males either.

If you're going to take it literally as 80% of all cyclists, then how do you define a cyclist? Someone who knows how to ride a bike? Or do you exclude the 5-10 year olds on the basis they're not generally cyclists, they are playing on a toy in the park?
Title: Re: "80% of cyclists have a driving licence" Really?
Post by: Flynn on May 25, 2013, 11:52:47 am
how do you define a cyclist?

Anyone who rides a bicycle.
Title: Re: "80% of cyclists have a driving licence" Really?
Post by: Specializta on May 25, 2013, 12:09:31 pm
how do you define a cyclist?

Anyone who rides a bicycle.

How do you define rides?
Title: Re: "80% of cyclists have a driving licence" Really?
Post by: Flynn on May 25, 2013, 01:39:15 pm
how do you define a cyclist?

Anyone who rides a bicycle.

How do you define rides?

Gets on it and pedals it in public.
Title: Re: "80% of cyclists have a driving licence" Really?
Post by: teethgrinder on May 25, 2013, 04:19:57 pm
It sounds plausible that 80% of cyclists in total, including children, have driving license.
People are only below legal driving age for a quarter of their lives and for the first few years of childhood they won't be cyclists. I couldn't ride a "two wheeler" until I was 5. My very first pedal strokes were done on a toy tricycle in the garden when I was about 2 or 3 (I'd have to ask mum ;D). The population is pretty stable and we're becoming a nation of oldies, which is why the retirement age is going up.
I also think that a lot of children miss out on being cyclists because parents don't think it's safe. I know very few cyclists that don't have a car and I think that most of them still have a driving licence.
To my knowledge, I can only think of two or three cyclists who have never even had a driving lesson and I am one of those.
Title: Re: "80% of cyclists have a driving licence" Really?
Post by: Specializta on May 25, 2013, 05:11:21 pm
how do you define a cyclist?

Anyone who rides a bicycle.

How do you define rides?

Gets on it and pedals it in public.

That makes no sense. Gets on it when? Ever? Just once, ride 10 yards as a child, fall off, and never get back on makes you a cyclist? If not that then where is the cutoff?
Title: Re: "80% of cyclists have a driving licence" Really?
Post by: Flynn on May 25, 2013, 05:20:06 pm
how do you define a cyclist?

Anyone who rides a bicycle.

How do you define rides?

Gets on it and pedals it in public.

That makes no sense. Gets on it when? Ever? Just once, ride 10 yards as a child, fall off, and never get back on makes you a cyclist? If not that then where is the cutoff?

When someone is riding a bicycle in public they are a cyclist.
Title: Re: "80% of cyclists have a driving licence" Really?
Post by: Specializta on May 25, 2013, 05:42:04 pm
how do you define a cyclist?

Anyone who rides a bicycle.

How do you define rides?

Gets on it and pedals it in public.

That makes no sense. Gets on it when? Ever? Just once, ride 10 yards as a child, fall off, and never get back on makes you a cyclist? If not that then where is the cutoff?

When someone is riding a bicycle in public they are a cyclist.

Can't argue with that.
Title: Re: "80% of cyclists have a driving licence" Really?
Post by: drossall on May 26, 2013, 07:55:51 pm
Yes, seems plausible to me, and, as Pancho said, it's beneficial to cyclists that it gets quoted. It may be that children are excluded. The CTC did a survey once and found that their members are more likely than the average for the UK population to be drivers (or was it to own cars?)

That cyclists are just drivers on two wheels for the day is a useful and important message in safety and in getting mutual respect.
Title: Re: "80% of cyclists have a driving licence" Really?
Post by: andygates on May 26, 2013, 08:10:56 pm
Seems pretty obvious that it is 80% of adults

Next please.
Title: Re: "80% of cyclists have a driving licence" Really?
Post by: jane on May 27, 2013, 07:29:01 am
Why does it matter whether people who ride bikes have driving licences or not? It seems to be mentioned in an attempt to dispel this "war on the roads" that the media have built up to almost epic proportions.  "No need to fight chaps, we're all the same really."  However,   I don't think I should have to say to motorists, look, you don't really have to treat me like I have no right to share this space with you because, you know, I am just like you really. Having a driving licence merely entitles you to drive a car on public roads independently.  Not having one does not take away your entitlement to anything more than that.  So what if nobody who rides a bike ever touched a car?  They still deserve to be given the same respect owed to any other human being.  I had a driving licence once.  I have no idea where it is now, haven't driven for over 30 years and never actually owned a car.   I can probably count the number of times I have even been inside a car since this time last year, on the fingers of one hand.  If I get to the end of my life never having owned a car and never having driven one again, I will count that as a positive achievement. If I had never had a licence at all, I would be even happier.
Title: Re: "80% of cyclists have a driving licence" Really?
Post by: Peter on May 27, 2013, 05:12:32 pm
It would be nice if 80% of licensed drivers had a cycle.  Come to that, 80% of ALL drivers, which is considerably more.
Title: Re: "80% of cyclists have a driving licence" Really?
Post by: tatanab on May 28, 2013, 03:40:38 pm
Why does it matter whether people who ride bikes have driving licences or not?
The reason is to counter the "cyclist have no training" argument.  You can point out that the majority of cyclists have passed a driving test and so the majority of bad riding that gets commented on must be by people who have had training.  Therefore the training must be lacking.
Title: Re: "80% of cyclists have a driving licence" Really?
Post by: Speshact on May 28, 2013, 10:34:22 pm
I can see that the stat is trying to dispel the 'us versus them' view that motorists who don't cycle have about people who do.

One of the things that concerns me about the AA blurb to its instructors or trainees is that it doesn't make any reference to children cycling on the road at all.
Title: Re: "80% of cyclists have a driving licence" Really?
Post by: Pedaldog on June 01, 2013, 09:07:37 pm
"80% of cyclists are just having a bit of fun with their toys before getting back into sensible mode and using their car as they should be"?
Title: Re: "80% of cyclists have a driving licence" Really?
Post by: jane on June 04, 2013, 07:41:51 pm
Why does it matter whether people who ride bikes have driving licences or not?
The reason is to counter the "cyclist have no training" argument.  You can point out that the majority of cyclists have passed a driving test and so the majority of bad riding that gets commented on must be by people who have had training.  Therefore the training must be lacking.
I know that is why it's said it's important.  My argument was that we shouldn't buy into this idea that people have to prove themselves worthy of being allowed on the road on a bike. The roads belong to everyone.  If we choose to drive a car on those roads, then we need to pass a test because cars have the potential to inflict serious injury and to kill.   A potential which is realised many  times every day in this country.  In fact, it could be argued the test should be harder to pass and frequent retests made to ensure we remain capable of driving to an adequate standard.  We should not buy into the myth that it is cyclists who present a real and present danger on our road because they are not properly trained by attempting to argue that they are trained.  So what if they aren't formally trained in the way drivers are?  They don't need to be.  We know that cyclists are not the real problem on the roads.  Research on the causes of collisions recently released showed that quite clearly.
Title: Re: "80% of cyclists have a driving licence" Really?
Post by: drossall on June 04, 2013, 09:48:29 pm
We're not buying into that. We're answering the argument that "Only motorists are properly trained" by pointing out that most cyclists are motorists. This undermines the idea that cyclists are not trained. Once you've demolished that argument, there's nothing left to suggest that even non-driving cyclists are untrained.
Title: Re: "80% of cyclists have a driving licence" Really?
Post by: mattc on June 05, 2013, 10:11:04 am
My argument was that we shouldn't buy into this idea that people have to prove themselves worthy of being allowed on the road on a bike. The roads belong to everyone.  If we choose to drive a car on those roads, then we need to pass a test because cars have the potential to inflict serious injury and to kill.
Jane,
I completely agree with the above.

However, I see this as a 2-pronged thing:

- On the one hand, stick up for our rights to be there. Don't take any shit.

- On the other, a diplomatic approach - win over hearts and minds with a "we're the same as you!" campaign. Hopefully reducing the "us and them" thing. If drivers see a cyclists as another human-being very similar to themselves, they're likely to show more consideration. I think.
Title: Re: "80% of cyclists have a driving licence" Really?
Post by: Trull on June 05, 2013, 10:49:55 am
People have a built in sense of fairness and cooperation, which gets skewed by car use (thanks to the public perception being carefully moulded by the meeja) so that a stuck car in congested traffic feels annoyed rather than embarrassed at being just sat there, while other (probably better looking/slimmer/more awesome...well unless its me) people stream past and cut the odd corner.

I'm not condoning light jumping or cycling on pavements through crowds of people, but I think we have to look to the deeper reasons the media like to pick this fight, when the boring reality is that its just a little peeving to watch from the rusting tin can-mobile, and no more.

The stat makes sense to me, if you think of active cyclists who need to get about and compare that to people who use a car, the venn diagram cuts out babies and the infirm in the main, increasing the DL holder proportion.
Title: Re: "80% of cyclists have a driving licence" Really?
Post by: Ham on June 05, 2013, 10:57:17 am
Edmund King of the  AA has been consistently working to unify the interests of cyclists and motorists, he is a welcome change of attitude from his predecessors. He has a welcome, simple, message: we are all road users; this deserves support.

http://www.theaa.com/public_affairs/aa-presidents-blog.html#getbritaincycling

Title: Re: "80% of cyclists have a driving licence" Really?
Post by: Viking on June 05, 2013, 01:33:12 pm
I didn't know the AA had a King.  King Edmund sounds like an all round good egg though.
Title: Re: "80% of cyclists have a driving licence" Really?
Post by: Toady on June 05, 2013, 03:01:13 pm
I didn't know the AA had a King.  King Edmund sounds like an all round good egg though.
King Edmund (of East Angular), later St Edmund the Martyr was England's original patron saint.  It was on the radio this week. 
Title: Re: "80% of cyclists have a driving licence" Really?
Post by: jane on June 05, 2013, 05:03:11 pm
We're not buying into that. We're answering the argument that "Only motorists are properly trained" by pointing out that most cyclists are motorists. This undermines the idea that cyclists are not trained. Once you've demolished that argument, there's nothing left to suggest that even non-driving cyclists are untrained.
It doesn't undermine that idea at all, for those that persist in the belief that a serious source of danger on the roads is untrained cyclists.  By arguing that the reason people don't need to worry about this is because most cyclists are motorists and therefore road trained, you are undermining those cyclists who are not motorists, still a sizeable number of adults and all under 17 year olds. Not all cyclists are motorists, therefore many remain untrained (within the parameters of that argument) -they can just counter with that and it would be undeniable.  What we should be saying is that the argument about cyclists being motorists or not, is a red herring and  irrelevant to what is actually happening out there on the roads and the changes that need to be made to improve things.  Don't buy into the myth that untrained cyclists are a significant danger on the roads.  Don't allow those that perpetuate that myth to believe it is an argument worthy of consideration. It isn't.  My counter to those who say that to me is, so what?  Let us discuss the kinds of damage that occur on our roads,  to whom and by whom, with actual road collision statistics, and then decide if the possibility that some cyclists aren't adequately trained is really something anyone should be worried about.  And it clearly isn't.
Title: Re: "80% of cyclists have a driving licence" Really?
Post by: teethgrinder on June 05, 2013, 06:49:54 pm
We're not buying into that. We're answering the argument that "Only motorists are properly trained" by pointing out that most cyclists are motorists. This undermines the idea that cyclists are not trained. Once you've demolished that argument, there's nothing left to suggest that even non-driving cyclists are untrained.
It doesn't undermine that idea at all, for those that persist in the belief that a serious source of danger on the roads is untrained cyclists.  By arguing that the reason people don't need to worry about this is because most cyclists are motorists and therefore road trained, you are undermining those cyclists who are not motorists, still a sizeable number of adults and all under 17 year olds. Not all cyclists are motorists, therefore many remain untrained (within the parameters of that argument) -they can just counter with that and it would be undeniable.  What we should be saying is that the argument about cyclists being motorists or not, is a red herring and  irrelevant to what is actually happening out there on the roads and the changes that need to be made to improve things.  Don't buy into the myth that untrained cyclists are a significant danger on the roads.  Don't allow those that perpetuate that myth to believe it is an argument worthy of consideration. It isn't.  My counter to those who say that to me is, so what?  Let us discuss the kinds of damage that occur on our roads,  to whom and by whom, with actual road collision statistics, and then decide if the possibility that some cyclists aren't adequately trained is really something anyone should be worried about.  And it clearly isn't.
Title: "80% of cyclists have a driving licence" Really?
Post by: citoyen on December 30, 2013, 09:47:04 am
This sounds like a good question for More Or Less.

Yes! Please submit it.

Purely anecdotal analysis of my immediate family suggests the 80% figure is too high (it's actually 50% for us [5 out of 10 adults sampled] but 60% would be plausible). I'd love to know how they arrived at it.

I'd also be interested to know the corollary figure for the number of adult cyclists who own a driving licence.
Title: Re: "80% of cyclists have a driving licence" Really?
Post by: drossall on December 30, 2013, 10:08:22 am
I've just found this Guardian article (http://www.theguardian.com/environment/blog/2010/aug/10/cycling-boom-survey) which might be of interest.
Title: Re: "80% of cyclists have a driving licence" Really?
Post by: citoyen on December 30, 2013, 10:09:08 am

Let us discuss the kinds of damage that occur on our roads,  to whom and by whom, with actual road collision statistics, and then decide if the possibility that some cyclists aren't adequately trained is really something anyone should be worried about.  And it clearly isn't.

Abso-bloody-lutely correct.

The amount of drivel I have to listen to from colleagues about how they were "nearly" mown down and murdered in cold blood by a scofflaw two-wheeled ninja or whatever... It's all in their mind. People see what they want to see. But the facts don't support the perception.
Title: Re: "80% of cyclists have a driving licence" Really?
Post by: Pickled Onion on December 31, 2013, 09:28:45 am

Let us discuss the kinds of damage that occur on our roads,  to whom and by whom, with actual road collision statistics, and then decide if the possibility that some cyclists aren't adequately trained is really something anyone should be worried about.  And it clearly isn't.

Abso-bloody-lutely correct.

The amount of drivel I have to listen to from colleagues about how they were "nearly" mown down and murdered in cold blood by a scofflaw two-wheeled ninja or whatever... It's all in their mind. People see what they want to see. But the facts don't support the perception.

Riding in London I regularly see cyclists narrowly zipping past pedestrians or weaving through crossings, right up to the point of bouncing off them and carrying on (this is not an exaggeration).

Equally I see motorists doing incredibly similar things, the difference is people are conditioned to defer to the superior mode of transport and leap out of the way without question. It's so normal that it doesn't make for a decent rant around the coffee machine.
Title: Re: "80% of cyclists have a driving licence" Really?
Post by: citoyen on December 31, 2013, 11:47:24 am
Riding in London I regularly see cyclists narrowly zipping past pedestrians or weaving through crossings, right up to the point of bouncing off them and carrying on (this is not an exaggeration).

Equally I see motorists doing incredibly similar things, the difference is people are conditioned to defer to the superior mode of transport and leap out of the way without question. It's so normal that it doesn't make for a decent rant around the coffee machine.

You're missing the point entirely. What is the net effect of this inconsiderate behaviour by cyclists? It's rude and annoying, sure, but it doesn't kill several hundred people a year.

If it's just the rudeness and lack of consideration that's the problem, well, for that matter pedestrians are no better behaved (have you never been barged out of the way by an inconsiderate pedestrian?), but when did anyone ever call for training, insurance and licensing for pedestrians?

Yes, going through red lights is actually illegal and I don't condone it, but the idea that RLJing cyclists are a major menace on the road is utter nonsense. It is not a problem that needs solving. There are far more pressing matters that do need attention.
Title: Re: "80% of cyclists have a driving licence" Really?
Post by: Ham on December 31, 2013, 12:12:49 pm
Citoyen, while I would tend to agree I have to point out that your response ignores the realpolitik of the situation. If the RLJ cyclists enrage a driver such that they take it out on others, then sure the bigger "fault" is with the driver, but it is the original low-impact action that is the butterfly flapping its wings.

There's a whole argument out there about how much your own appropriate actions should be governed by the inappropriate reaction of another, but as we agree RLJ is inappropriate I suggest that doesn't apply.
Title: Re: "80% of cyclists have a driving licence" Really?
Post by: citoyen on December 31, 2013, 12:59:23 pm
I'm fed up with the realpolitik of the situation. It's about time we ignored it and addressed the real problems on our roads instead. That means better policing of the class of road users who kill several hundred people a year, not a few token fines for cyclists to appease Daily Mail readers.

For a start, I'd suggest a major advertising campaign to remind motorists that they belong to this class. "You're not in traffic, you are traffic." "You're x times more likely to kill someone with your car than win the lottery." "You are not Lewis Hamilton, this is not Silverstone, slow the fuck down." That kind of thing.
Title: Re: "80% of cyclists have a driving licence" Really?
Post by: citoyen on December 31, 2013, 01:14:18 pm
"X% of road traffic accidents involve drivers who consider themselves of 'above average' ability."
Title: Re: "80% of cyclists have a driving licence" Really?
Post by: Pickled Onion on December 31, 2013, 01:14:41 pm

You're missing the point entirely.

No, I get the point, it was clear, and I totally agree with it.

I was just trying (and failing, obv.) to add that despite the fact there as much, if not more, such behaviour by motorists, and despite the fact it's much more likely to result in injury, the near total acceptance of car-is-king means you don't have colleagues ranting about it.
Title: Re: "80% of cyclists have a driving licence" Really?
Post by: Ham on December 31, 2013, 01:31:36 pm
I'm fed up with the realpolitik of the situation. It's about time we ignored it and addressed the real problems on our roads instead. That means better policing of the class of road users who kill several hundred people a year, not a few token fines for cyclists to appease Daily Mail readers.

For a start, I'd suggest a major advertising campaign to remind motorists that they belong to this class. "You're not in traffic, you are traffic." "You're x times more likely to kill someone with your car than win the lottery." "You are not Lewis Hamilton, this is not Silverstone, slow the fuck down." That kind of thing.

Not actually arguing with you there, just that considering cycling both highlights and confuses  the issue; cycling isn't the high risk activity as we all agree.
Title: Re: "80% of cyclists have a driving licence" Really?
Post by: Cudzoziemiec on December 31, 2013, 01:34:33 pm
I'm fed up with the realpolitik of the situation. It's about time we ignored it and addressed the real problems on our roads instead. That means better policing of the class of road users who kill several hundred people a year, not a few token fines for cyclists to appease Daily Mail readers.

For a start, I'd suggest a major advertising campaign to remind motorists that they belong to this class. "You're not in traffic, you are traffic." "You're x times more likely to kill someone with your car than win the lottery." "You are not Lewis Hamilton, this is not Silverstone, slow the fuck down." That kind of thing.
I've just gone a tiny bit weak at the knees and breathless with admiration.
Title: Re: "80% of cyclists have a driving licence" Really?
Post by: citoyen on December 31, 2013, 02:28:08 pm


You're missing the point entirely.

No, I get the point, it was clear, and I totally agree with it.

I was just trying (and failing, obv.) to add that despite the fact there as much, if not more, such behaviour by motorists, and despite the fact it's much more likely to result in injury, the near total acceptance of car-is-king means you don't have colleagues ranting about it.

Ok, fair enough. Sorry for going off on one. Yes, on re-reading your post, I see what you're getting at.

Sorry.

I'm going for a lie down to cool off.
Title: Re: "80% of cyclists have a driving licence" Really?
Post by: citoyen on December 31, 2013, 02:31:11 pm

considering cycling both highlights and confuses  the issue

Indeed. To be fair, I believe Edmund King's heart is in the right place and it's good to have a high-profile motorist conspicuously on our side.
Title: Re: "80% of cyclists have a driving licence" Really?
Post by: citoyen on December 31, 2013, 02:42:15 pm

I've just gone a tiny bit weak at the knees and breathless with admiration.

:-*
Title: Re: "80% of cyclists have a driving licence" Really?
Post by: ian on December 31, 2013, 06:32:52 pm
I've always thought there should be a risk-o-meter in a car. In these days of sophisticated computers it ought to be possible for add one to a car that analyses the driving style and applies an algorithm based on the data being compiled. Then, when the driver gets in, it could announce (celeb voices will be available) 'your likelihood of severe injury or death during this journey is x. Your probability of a serious accident that may injure other people is y.' Perhaps there could be some en route annotation, say, when driving too fast it could add helpful comments 'your accident risk has just risen to z'.

You know, I think I'm only halfway being facetious.

Citoyen is right on a money, I think.

I'm sure I've told the story before, but I rarely let that stop me, but a year or so back I was walking across a pedestrianised area behind Temple Meads station (near the back entrance). There was a white van awkwardly reversing across the same precinct (presumably to make a delivery). The driver was on his mobile. There were no 'vehicle reversing' type safety features. There was a middle-aged woman walking towards me. At about this time, a cyclist rode through the precinct. Not particularly close to either of us, thought a little too fast. That said, unless he'd had to suddenly avoid a stealth elephant, we weren't in danger. Did I mention the white van about a metre away?

The woman as she'd passed said to me: 'cyclists really should be stopped from riding through here, someone is going to get hurt' (or words to that effect). The van might as well have been a stealth elephant.
Title: Re: "80% of cyclists have a driving licence" Really?
Post by: Nelson Longflap on January 02, 2014, 01:36:32 pm
I've just gone a tiny bit weak at the knees and breathless with admiration.
+1

Fantastic citoyen  :thumbsup: How much does it cost to get those slogans on the back of a bus?  (Might be considered too provocative on a tee shirt.)
Title: Re: "80% of cyclists have a driving licence" Really?
Post by: matthew on January 02, 2014, 01:59:22 pm
In the same way that Lloyds of London used to ring the Lutine bell each time an overdue ship was confirmed as lost at sea I think the NHS should install a bell in the DfT and each Highways office and ring it each time an ambulance arrives at A&E with someone involved in a car 'accident'. Considering the numbers of KSI on Britains roads each year it might focus minds on the toll of death.

In a simillar manner the Newspapers used to report the loss of every ship and ship wrecks were frontpage news. How about the BBC news website reports all KSI incidents for a month or two. It might just bring to the publics attention the costs of our transport choices.
Title: Re: "80% of cyclists have a driving licence" Really?
Post by: Kim on January 02, 2014, 02:03:20 pm
How about the BBC news website reports all KSI incidents for a month or two. It might just bring to the publics attention the costs of our transport choices.

I thought the new system was that important news *wasn't* reported by the BBC. 

But yes.  I've said before that it would be interesting if some mainstream media outlet took it upon themselves to report every road KSI in the way they might report an aviation KSI.
Title: Re: "80% of cyclists have a driving licence" Really?
Post by: JJ on January 03, 2014, 04:32:21 pm
Returning, no doubt briefly, to the OP's question -

I am not a statistician but...

Whether "In 2010, 80% of males and 66% of females held a full car driving licence", refers to the whole population or to some subset, if the "cyclists" in  "80% of cyclists hold a driving licence" are a broadly similar but slightly skewed subset, then the two figures are reasonably well aligned.

By "slightly skewed" I mean that "cyclists", however defined, includes proportionately rather more males and rather more adults than the original set did.

Looking at the number of trips by main mode per person per year table that the OP linked, in 2012 the TPPPY by bicycle were 16, so the "1 in 5 drivers cycle at least once a month" seems plausible too. 

Making huge assumptions:  let's suppose that half the population drive.  Then 1 in 5 drivers cycling once a month would bring the TPPPY by bike up to 1.2.  That leaves the remaining 14.8 to be made up by those of us who cycle a lot more than once a month, whether or not we drive.

Now shoot me down!  :P
Title: Re: "80% of cyclists have a driving licence" Really?
Post by: Roger Geffen on June 23, 2014, 08:30:15 pm
I saw a figure this week stating 83% of UK cyclists hold driving licences, whereas 82% of the general population hold driving licences. Damned if I can find the website I read it on now though.

The source for this is an answer to a Parliamentary Question:
www.theyworkforyou.com/wrans/?id=2011-05-09a.53988.h

The data comes from the Government-run National Transport Survey (NTS).

"Cyclist" for this purpose is someone who cycled at least once during the week in which they were asked to fill in a travel diary for the NTS.

Roger Geffen
Campaigns & Policy Director, CTC
Title: Re: "80% of cyclists have a driving licence" Really?
Post by: Ham on June 23, 2014, 08:32:00 pm
Welcome aboard!
Title: Re: "80% of cyclists have a driving licence" Really?
Post by: clarion on June 23, 2014, 08:39:17 pm
Hello Roger.  Good to see you.
Title: Re: "80% of cyclists have a driving licence" Really?
Post by: tonyh on June 26, 2014, 09:36:43 am
Welcome aboard!

Seconded!
Title: Re: "80% of cyclists have a driving licence" Really?
Post by: Canardly on June 26, 2014, 11:50:17 am
Welcome.