Yet Another Cycling Forum

General Category => On The Road => Topic started by: AndyMorris on November 30, 2013, 04:45:22 pm

Title: You really shouldn't ride your bike on roads where there are lorries.
Post by: AndyMorris on November 30, 2013, 04:45:22 pm
That's the message that most people will take from what LCC, the CTC  and BC have been saying.



Title: Re: You really shouldn't ride your bike on roads where there are lorries.
Post by: Ham on November 30, 2013, 05:02:18 pm
Here we go again.

Andy, not everyone shares your dyspeptic view, although I suppose some do.

For your information I have uploaded the editorial from Ashok Sinha (LCC CE) from the new LCC mag which eloquently expresses how all views live side by side, under the banned of "Space for Cyclists". I for one will be putting that sticker on my car.

You should be able to read it here (https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B43HODZpK1uqWTNsVHBpb1M0Ulk/edit?usp=sharing)
Title: Re: You really shouldn't ride your bike on roads where there are lorries.
Post by: AndyMorris on November 30, 2013, 06:03:02 pm
What are most people going to make of 'Space for Cycling'?

It means space somewhere else from the road, or a little bit at the edge of the the road, no one is going to take it to mean space in the middle of the lane.

Some people manage to ride thousands of miles without ever having close shaves with lorries, we not supermen, we done have special skills, mainly we just ride 4 ft to the right, and follow the same rules as every other vehicle.

So lets have more die ins, and we will get a few hundred miles of crap segregated facilities and if we stray off them, its at our own risk.

Title: Re: You really shouldn't ride your bike on roads where there are lorries.
Post by: Kim on November 30, 2013, 06:18:32 pm
I think we need to stop talking about cycling, and campaign for road safety, particularly that of vulnerable pedestrians.

It's acceptable to hate and ignore cyclists, but everyone is a pedestrian at some point.  Nobody wants their children to be hurt by motor vehicles.

Make the roads safe for people.  That means segregating the cyclists from the pedestrians, either by making the road pleasant enough for your wobbly gran and your distracted 8 year old to cycle on, or by building high-quality segregated facilities.  The quality has to be good enough that people won't ride on the pavement.  Sorted.
Title: Re: You really shouldn't ride your bike on roads where there are lorries.
Post by: red marley on November 30, 2013, 06:25:42 pm
Personally, I think 'space for cyclists' is an improvement over the 'Go Dutch' campaign. It can clearly be interpreted in a number of ways including:


Sure there will be differences in opinion about how to implement each of those spaces and how important each are, but it in general it seems to be more nuanced and wide-ranging in its approach than the previous campaign. I think Ashok's LCC editorial reflects some of that complexity quite well.

Kim makes a good point about general support for people-friendly design but I think it is reasonable for cycle organisations at least to provide a cycle-specific context to redesign. My experience of the Hackney (LCC) Cyclists is that they have got that balance right, with explicit encouragement of people-first street design that happens to benefit people whether they are on a bike or on foot.
Title: Re: You really shouldn't ride your bike on roads where there are lorries.
Post by: Biggsy on November 30, 2013, 07:29:24 pm
I agree with Andy that that's the message that most people will TAKE, even if it's not exactly the message the LCC etc are trying to give.

The clear message should be that roads are for cycling, and there needs be greater control over motor vehicles (drivers) who cyclists allow to share their space.  90% of the focus should be on that and cycling education.  I don't say there should be no new cycle facilities at all, but still there's too much emphasis on them, IMO.
Title: Re: You really shouldn't ride your bike on roads where there are lorries.
Post by: Cudzoziemiec on November 30, 2013, 07:58:52 pm
I think we need to stop talking about cycling, and campaign for road safety, particularly that of vulnerable pedestrians.

It's acceptable to hate and ignore cyclists, but everyone is a pedestrian at some point.
Yes.
Quote
Nobody wants their children to be hurt by motor vehicles.

Make the roads safe for people.
Yes, but a leap beyond for most people and the highway bods.
Quote
That means segregating the cyclists from the pedestrians, either by making the road pleasant enough for your wobbly gran and your distracted 8 year old to cycle on, or by building high-quality segregated facilities.  The quality has to be good enough that people won't ride on the pavement.  Sorted.
Not really sure about that. Rather it might mean slowing and messing the traffic up so it all becomes people. Like the Poynton vid
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-vzDDMzq7d0&feature=youtu.be
making roads into spaces rather than lines. Not going to work everywhere but could be used in many places.
Title: Re: You really shouldn't ride your bike on roads where there are lorries.
Post by: tonycollinet on December 01, 2013, 11:20:21 am
That looks wonderful - will pay a visit.

And I'm going to suggest that "many" with a little imagination, and vision can be changed to "most"
Title: Re: You really shouldn't ride your bike on roads where there are lorries.
Post by: Jaded on December 01, 2013, 01:48:12 pm
I agree with Andy that that's the message that most people will TAKE, even if it's not exactly the message the LCC etc are trying to give.

The clear message should be that roads are for cycling, and there needs be greater control over motor vehicles (drivers) who cyclists allow to share their space.  90% of the focus should be on that and cycling education.  I don't say there should be no new cycle facilities at all, but still there's too much emphasis on them, IMO.

Whenever a word or phrase that can be taken multiple ways is chosen, it will be taken multiple ways. Much like the weasel word "accident". Many will take "Space for cyclists" to mean separate space for cyclists. Which as we know is impractical in almost all areas of the UK for one reason or another.

It seems to be a woolier and more confusing message than "Give cyclists room"