Author Topic: Indian Pacific Wheel Race.  (Read 27225 times)

dim

Re: Indian Pacific Wheel Race.
« Reply #325 on: February 13, 2018, 10:02:52 pm »
so en'lighten' me .... what would you wear ?

Whatever was appropriate for the weather conditions.

I've chosen jackets based on fit, affordability and how well it could breathe.  In the absence of any that can breathe effectively, I've chosen cheap ones that fit, and rarely wear them.  They have some retroreflectives on them, which is fine, but it doesn't contribute anything to my safety as it's usually rolled up in my bag.

so what's your 'favorite' assuming that you were to ride 1000km (which included riding several hours during pitch darkness), and assuming that the temp and weather were mild? ... and assuming that you could only have 1 jacket
“No great mind has ever existed without a touch of madness.” - Aristotle

Kim

  • Timelord
Re: Indian Pacific Wheel Race.
« Reply #326 on: February 13, 2018, 10:18:27 pm »
so what's your 'favorite' assuming that you were to ride 1000km (which included riding several hours during pitch darkness), and assuming that the temp and weather were mild? ... and assuming that you could only have 1 jacket

If the temperature's mild I wouldn't be wearing a jacket because I tend to run hot.  Iff I were to attempt this sort of race (which I wouldn't; I'm not capable of it) I'd probably choose something that could pack down as small and light as possible.

In the real world, I have a standard Altura Night Vision.  I've done plenty of overnight riding, but very little with a jacket on, and when I have worn it it's contributed little to my visibility because there's usually been a seat in the way.

I'm not sure why this is relevant...  we were talking about hi-vis rules.
To ride the Windcheetah, first, you must embrace the cantilever...

quixoticgeek

  • Mostly Harmless
Re: Indian Pacific Wheel Race.
« Reply #327 on: February 14, 2018, 07:46:58 am »
Whatever was appropriate for the weather conditions.

I've chosen jackets based on fit, affordability and how well it could breathe.  In the absence of any that can breathe effectively, I've chosen cheap ones that fit, and rarely wear them.  They have some retroreflectives on them, which is fine, but it doesn't contribute anything to my safety as it's usually rolled up in my bag.

On the breathing front, I have several Páramo jackets, I've found them to be the only jackets that are both waterproof, and breathable in the quantities of sweat produced when cycling. The only downside is they are too warm for cycling in for about 6 months of the year. But in winter, Autumn, and early spring, they are fantastic. I wear my Quito jacket daily for commuting in throughout the winter, even sub zero, and never have any issues with boil in a bag sensation like I've had with membrane jackets in the past. It's got some reflective piping on the shoulder seem, but that's all it's got. I have the lights I need to comply with the law, I don't see a need for any additional reflective clothing.

J
--
Beer, bikes, and backpacking
http://b.42q.eu/

Re: Indian Pacific Wheel Race.
« Reply #328 on: February 14, 2018, 07:58:30 am »
The answer to best jacket depends on the weather. 

In a shorter event such as yours, you can have a pretty good idea if it is going to rain much or not beforehand so can prepare accordingly. 

I took a Gore jacket on IndyPac that I was grateful to have in a thunderstorm, but I wouldn't take it if I thought there would only be showers as it doesn't pack very small.  I've got a Sportful one which packs smaller than my fist and weighs nothing, which would be fine as a top windproof layer with shower protection.     

quixoticgeek

  • Mostly Harmless
Re: Indian Pacific Wheel Race.
« Reply #329 on: March 22, 2018, 10:24:15 pm »

Despite the Indipac not running officially this year, enough of those who were planning to enter, have decided to ride anyway.

There's a tracking page at: https://indianpacificwheelrace2018.maprogress.com/

There's someone on twitter who's got a spreadsheet comparing daily totals of this years unofficial riders, and last years official riders. So far the p1 rider abdullah zeinab is going slightly slower than Kristof last year.

Given it's not the real race, and all the stuff surrounding it, I'm really struggling to get as enthused by the dots for this race as I have for races in the past.

J
--
Beer, bikes, and backpacking
http://b.42q.eu/

LittleWheelsandBig

  • Whimsy Rider
Re: Indian Pacific Wheel Race.
« Reply #330 on: February 28, 2019, 07:03:28 am »
Wheel meet again, don't know where, don't know when...

Re: Indian Pacific Wheel Race.
« Reply #331 on: February 28, 2019, 09:06:56 am »
I've composed and deleted 2 replies already.

What's left to be said? If you want to murder someone, wait til their on a bike.

Re: Indian Pacific Wheel Race.
« Reply #332 on: February 28, 2019, 10:58:19 am »
I've just read the actual report.
https://courts.act.gov.au/__data/assets/­pdf_file/0007/1324555/Hall.pdf?fbclid=Iw­AR3oXHyBEdt0jHnYoRkYTUPFl5PRa6q16eM0Rugg­9pagJbhRUxsfY-hoRIo

Essentially, it is a victim blaming document in that it focuses on what could Mike have done to make himself more visible, and what new laws can be brought in to force other cyclists to do so, rather than what could drivers do to avoid hitting things in front of them.

However, my reading of it is that it says that the driver may have been guilty of 'negligent driving' which carries a sentence of up to 2 years. The decision on whether to prosecute is to be referred to the police.  Chances are that they will decided to do nothing, but the option to do something remains open to them.

One thing I don't understand is that when a car hits another car from behind there is an automatic presumption that the car doing the hitting from behind is liable (In Australia as well as UK, I believe).  Why should that not apply when the vehicle being hit is a bike?

LittleWheelsandBig

  • Whimsy Rider
Re: Indian Pacific Wheel Race.
« Reply #333 on: February 28, 2019, 10:59:24 am »
The police have already absolved the driver.
Wheel meet again, don't know where, don't know when...

Re: Indian Pacific Wheel Race.
« Reply #334 on: February 28, 2019, 11:03:37 am »
Yes, but the coroner has now referred it back to them as part of her judgement. 

'I  will,however,refer  the  matter  to  the  AFP  for consideration  as  to  whether  a  section  6  charge  has  been  committed.'  (right at the end)

While I'm not holding my breath, presumably the inquest could be new info for them to take into account in their decision...? 

Re: Indian Pacific Wheel Race.
« Reply #335 on: February 28, 2019, 11:20:52 am »

Essentially, it is a victim blaming document in that it focuses on what could Mike have done to make himself more visible, and what new laws can be brought in to force other cyclists to do so, rather than what could drivers do to avoid hitting things in front of them.


This is ridiculous, they admit they lost his clothes and therefore can't prove one way or the other how visible he was.

mattc

  • n.b. have grown beard since photo taken
    • Didcot Audaxes
Re: Indian Pacific Wheel Race.
« Reply #336 on: February 28, 2019, 11:44:00 am »
One thing I don't understand is that when a car hits another car from behind there is an automatic presumption that the car doing the hitting from behind is liable (In Australia as well as UK, I believe).  Why should that not apply when the vehicle being hit is a bike?
I don't *believe* that is the case (in UK, anyways!) - it's just one of those "common law" udnerstandings (i.e. if you rear-end another car, you will need a VERY strong case to put the blame on t'other driver). If it's actually documented anywhere, it will be (interesting) news to me.
Has never ridden RAAM
---------
No.11  Because of the great host of those who dislike the least appearance of "swank " when they travel the roads and lanes. - From Kuklos' 39 Articles

Re: Indian Pacific Wheel Race.
« Reply #337 on: February 28, 2019, 11:55:04 am »
One concern has always been that the coroner's verdict would contain criticism of the idea of endurance racing in principle. The organiser outlined the dangers before the start.

Quote
“No one will help a rider if things go wrong for them in any way – riders will be alone. Understand that this is a personal challenge against the clock,” the disclaimer reads. “By signing up riders get nothing but an excuse to plan and execute their own adventure, one which is dangerous and has serious risks for those unprepared. This race is definitely not for everyone and it is probably not for you.”

Carlsson makes no apologies.

“You’re gonna be out there alone. If something goes wrong, no-one’s gonna necessarily hear you scream,” he said. “You’re gonna need to know how to solve all the problems out there.”

But he admits to worrying.

“In any of these races you’re always worried about someone having a run in with traffic, getting hit by a car or something like that, so it goes with the territory unfortunately. Hopefully everyone stays safe.”

That's from an article written just before the start.
https://cyclingtips.com/2017/03/indian-pacific-wheel-race-lifetime-adventure-folly-foolhardy/

Quote
The adventurers and risk-takers in our midst should be supported and applauded for daring to do the things and go to the places that most of us will never contemplate. There’s great personal reward to be had in challenges like the Indy Pac, and these can reach beyond the individuals. Jesse Carlsson agrees.

“It’s inspiring; ordinary people doing remarkable things like this,” he said. “It motivates people to do all sorts of cool stuff.”

Cool stuff indeed. Some of the entrants have quit their jobs. Documentaries and cinema launches are being planned, books will be written, blogs and vlogs will grow; and there will be countless photographs, video updates, and all manner of social media snippets emerging from the Indy Pac story.

The article highlights the historic aspects of the Indy Pac.

Quote
You could say the Indian Pacific Wheel Race has a good dose of Oppy’s DNA in it. The Indy Pac start date of March 18 also happens to be the same date as the Audax Australia Fleche Opperman All Day Trial, a 24-hour team time trial that has been held since 1985 in honour of Oppy. Fittingly, this year is also 80 years since the last time Hubert Opperman rode from Fremantle to Sydney and broke that record.

It is clear from speaking with Indy Pac organiser, Jesse Carlsson, that he has deep respect for Australia’s first endurance cyclists. That is also evident from the Indy Pac website itself which includes many snippets of Australian overlander history.

Many stories emerged from the early cross-Australia rides.

Quote
Few realise there was a time when Australia was regarded as the ‘long-distance cycling centre of the world’. (See the bottom of this article for a list of just some of the distance cycling achievements from Australia’s past.) The early Australian riders (the ‘Overlanders’ and ‘Indefatigables’ as they were called) played a key role in promoting cycling as a past-time and sport, and the development of roads and other cycling infrastructure. The widespread interest their efforts attracted also helped spark the public imagination about new possibilities for moving around Australia.

The notes they made, the stories they told of their experiences, and the touring maps that resulted, paved the way for many others that followed them.

The dominant story of Indy Pac has been the demise of Mike Hall. That's inevitable, given Mike's high profile, and the apparent novelty of unsupported adventure racing. However, there's a much bigger back-story to long-distance riding, and there have been similar incidents on rides I've done, and what happened to Mike has happened to friends.

Quote
Jesse Carlsson (and the cast of others who have helped him) should be congratulated for bringing this Indy Pac adventure to fruition, for wanting to see a resurgence in Australian ultra-endurance cycling, and for his efforts in building an engaged community around that big idea. However, events of this scale are very unsettling. And maybe that is exactly the point.

Come this Saturday morning, March 18, I will certainly be one of what I suspect will be a very large virtual crowd of onlookers staring into their computer screens, eager to see how this bold new thing called the ‘Indy Pac’ unfolds.

I’ll be reading the dispatches from the road, scanning the social media updates on race progress, and following a handful of Indy Pac racers that have captured my interest for whatever reason. I will also be holding my breath, and praying to the Gods of cycling that everyone gets through this massive thing safely.



 

Re: Indian Pacific Wheel Race.
« Reply #338 on: February 28, 2019, 12:03:56 pm »
One concern has always been that the coroner's verdict would contain criticism of the idea of endurance racing in principle. The organiser outlined the dangers before the start.
...
The dominant story of Indy Pac has been the demise of Mike Hall. That's inevitable, given Mike's high profile, and the apparent novelty of unsupported adventure racing. However, there's a much bigger back-story to long-distance riding, and there have been similar incidents on rides I've done, and what happened to Mike has happened to friends.

That's right (your first point).  And, as far as I can see, it didn't do that - which is good news.

Re your second point - Mike was actually not even the first person on that event to be hit by a car.   Another rider was a couple of days earlier and was put out of the race but not seriously harmed.  Given that most of the route has very light traffic, the statistics were awful but not surprising based on my experience of the driving practices.

Re: Indian Pacific Wheel Race.
« Reply #339 on: February 28, 2019, 12:06:17 pm »
One thing I don't understand is that when a car hits another car from behind there is an automatic presumption that the car doing the hitting from behind is liable (In Australia as well as UK, I believe).  Why should that not apply when the vehicle being hit is a bike?
I don't *believe* that is the case (in UK, anyways!) - it's just one of those "common law" udnerstandings (i.e. if you rear-end another car, you will need a VERY strong case to put the blame on t'other driver). If it's actually documented anywhere, it will be (interesting) news to me.

Isn't that what I said...?  It's automatically presumed by all that the guy behind is at fault, even though I too have no knowledge of it being law.  But when it is a bike there is no such automatic presumption by all parties.

mattc

  • n.b. have grown beard since photo taken
    • Didcot Audaxes
Re: Indian Pacific Wheel Race.
« Reply #340 on: February 28, 2019, 01:03:11 pm »
I suppose it depends what you meant by "automatic"! But yeah, I think we are on the same page Frank. (I think I read what people often write on this issue, not what you ACTUALLY posted  :facepalm: )

Sadly, it's never been the same (in the UK) where a bike is involved. It's just "collision occurred whilst overtaking" - "just one of those things". :(
Has never ridden RAAM
---------
No.11  Because of the great host of those who dislike the least appearance of "swank " when they travel the roads and lanes. - From Kuklos' 39 Articles

quixoticgeek

  • Mostly Harmless
Re: Indian Pacific Wheel Race.
« Reply #341 on: March 02, 2019, 10:29:05 am »

Given this coroners ruling, what do people think will be the chances of the IPWR being organised officially again ?

J
--
Beer, bikes, and backpacking
http://b.42q.eu/

Re: Indian Pacific Wheel Race.
« Reply #342 on: March 02, 2019, 06:31:34 pm »

Given this coroners ruling, what do people think will be the chances of the IPWR being organised officially again ?

J

I think it's unlikely.
The verdict was pretty much in line with expectations.
Reading between the lines with no inside knowledge, but interpreting what was said this time last year, I think what most likely happened is that Jesse's organisers ' liability insurers decided they didn't want to cover it, forcing him to pull the plug. A plausible reason for that would be if they had been in receipt of a claim from Mike's insurers. Or they may have just decided it wasn't worth the risk for what was most likely a modest premium. I suspect the inquest won't have changed things on the insurance front. Also Jesse's heart might not be in it after all the aggro and pain that it has brought him.
FInally it kind of works as an unofficial ride.

hellymedic

  • Just do it!
Re: Indian Pacific Wheel Race.
« Reply #343 on: March 02, 2019, 06:48:02 pm »
I find the Coroner's verdict VERY hard to swallow having seen the video on YouTube of Mike riding just a few hours before he was hit. He was well-lit.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PvZpUjEfU74

Re: Indian Pacific Wheel Race.
« Reply #344 on: March 03, 2019, 10:06:01 pm »
Here is the organisers of the TCR's official response (should work even if you aren't on FB).
“That slope may look insignificant, but it's going to be my destiny" - Fitzcarraldo

Re: Indian Pacific Wheel Race.
« Reply #345 on: March 04, 2019, 06:14:40 am »
Thanks Ivan.

Re: Indian Pacific Wheel Race.
« Reply #346 on: March 04, 2019, 09:57:28 am »
I find the Coroner's verdict VERY hard to swallow having seen the video on YouTube of Mike riding just a few hours before he was hit. He was well-lit.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PvZpUjEfU74

But, the driver thought he'd hit an (unlit) kangaroo! How could you doubt him?

Honestly, I grew up driving on those sorts of roads (other side of the country, but similar, winding roads in hilly country, trees next to road, constant danger of kangaroos). Only idiots don't keep their eyes on the road. Kangaroos are a serious risk, they jump out very abruptly, from trees that can be 2-3 ft from the bitumen.

The only mitigating excuse that I could accept would be one where the driver said "I couldn't distinguish a rear led light from the roadside post reflectors and thought it was a post further away." (Australian roads being lined with posts with red and white reflectors). It is a good reason to use a rear light on flash mode in Oz.

The police were negligent in not maintaining a proper chain of custody. The driver was grossly negligent. The world has lost a lovely inspirational person.
<i>Marmite slave</i>

Re: Indian Pacific Wheel Race.
« Reply #347 on: March 20, 2019, 01:50:15 pm »
That plant based chap is really motoring. Way off the front now. I can't fathom his daily totals, the time/speed stats are funky.
All the gear and no idea.Three dimensionally dyslexic.

quixoticgeek

  • Mostly Harmless
Re: Indian Pacific Wheel Race.
« Reply #348 on: March 20, 2019, 01:55:05 pm »
That plant based chap is really motoring. Way off the front now. I can't fathom his daily totals, the time/speed stats are funky.

I've no idea who it is, but I'm amazed by just how fast they are going. That's crazy speed.

J
--
Beer, bikes, and backpacking
http://b.42q.eu/

Re: Indian Pacific Wheel Race.
« Reply #349 on: March 20, 2019, 10:14:01 pm »
Not wanting to take anything away from him (and he's faster than I was) but as this chart (posted by Emma Flukes) shows, he is quicker than the others out there now, but not nearly as quick as the fastest riders in other years.  He is already over a day behind Kristoff in 2017