Author Topic: Benjamin Allens Summer outing  (Read 3609 times)

mattc

  • n.b. have grown beard since photo taken
    • Didcot Audaxes
Re: Benjamin Allens Summer outing
« Reply #50 on: May 29, 2019, 12:35:11 am »
The dual language is surely an advantage to an organiser - two info questions for the price of one.

 ;D

My frustration on welsh rides is never actually getting to the mythical "Araf" - does anyone have an english translation for this town?
Has never ridden RAAM
---------
No.11  Because of the great host of those who dislike the least appearance of "swank " when they travel the roads and lanes. - From Kuklos' 39 Articles

Manotea

  • Where there is doubt...
Re: Benjamin Allens Summer outing
« Reply #51 on: May 29, 2019, 06:31:42 am »
I had a similar problem in Germany. I never could find this place called Ausgang. It seemed like a real attraction, as there were directions to it everywhere.

Re: Benjamin Allens Summer outing
« Reply #52 on: May 29, 2019, 08:39:02 am »
I had a similar problem in Germany. I never could find this place called Ausgang. It seemed like a real attraction, as there were directions to it everywhere.
Actually you can only walk to Ausgang. If you are cycling you would be going to Ausfahrt.

Ignoring the niceties of German grammar, I've always found the main difficulty of Welsh rides is the sheer unpronouncability of the places you are following directions to. My trick is to mentally transliterate the place name into some more comprehensible language - often Czech as a language which allows words like skrz, zmrzl and čtvrtka should have no problem with Bvlch or Ponthřidfendigájd. Occasionally, though, it is possible to convert the names into something English, and on various events I can remember following signposts to Wentwrong, Llandfill and Pant-y-Gyrddll.

Re: Benjamin Allens Summer outing
« Reply #53 on: May 29, 2019, 09:58:09 am »

Ignoring the niceties of German grammar, I've always found the main difficulty of Welsh rides is the sheer unpronouncability of the places you are following directions to. My trick is to mentally transliterate the place name into some more comprehensible language - often Czech as a language which allows words like skrz, zmrzl and čtvrtka should have no problem with Bvlch or Ponthřidfendigájd. Occasionally, though, it is possible to convert the names into something English, and on various events I can remember following signposts to Wentwrong, Llandfill and Pant-y-Gyrddll.

 ???  Welsh is entirely phoentic. With the exception of y, and vowels in diphthongs (2 vowels together), letters are always pronounced the same. And once you know the diphthongs, they are always pronounced consistently. 

Re: Benjamin Allens Summer outing
« Reply #54 on: May 29, 2019, 02:03:42 pm »


 ???  Welsh is entirely phoentic. With the exception of y, and vowels in diphthongs (2 vowels together), letters are always pronounced the same. And once you know the diphthongs, they are always pronounced consistently.

So is Czech. As are German, Polish, and Dutch, and probably most European languages with the exception of English and Russian. But the point is that the sounds assigned to each letter are broadly the same in each (OK, y and z are exceptions) and so pronounciation is clear and obvious. This isn't the case with Welsh, and the sounds of words seem seem very much at odds with their spelling and the letter combinations alien.

Kim

  • Timelord
Re: Benjamin Allens Summer outing
« Reply #55 on: May 29, 2019, 02:47:01 pm »
My frustration on welsh rides is never actually getting to the mythical "Araf" - does anyone have an english translation for this town?

It's not a town it's an animal!  The Slow Araf hangs upside-down from branches snoozing safely during the day, emerging at dawn and dusk to scarper across the road into the path of unwary cyclists.  Being shy creatures, they tend to inhabit wooded areas near blind bends.  Their only known predator is the Tregaron Mountain Toad.
To ride the Windcheetah, first, you must embrace the cantilever...

FifeingEejit

  • Not Small just Far Away at the back
Re: Benjamin Allens Summer outing
« Reply #56 on: May 29, 2019, 03:04:07 pm »


 ???  Welsh is entirely phoentic. With the exception of y, and vowels in diphthongs (2 vowels together), letters are always pronounced the same. And once you know the diphthongs, they are always pronounced consistently.

So is Czech. As are German, Polish, and Dutch, and probably most European languages with the exception of English and Russian. But the point is that the sounds assigned to each letter are broadly the same in each (OK, y and z are exceptions) and so pronounciation is clear and obvious. This isn't the case with Welsh, and the sounds of words seem seem very much at odds with their spelling and the letter combinations alien.

Had a bit of a dig and the Ll is discussed here and makes it pretty obvious why it's been Latinised to Ll, and L is used in other languages for it too; that the welsh seem to tell the English to use Sh and Scots to use Ch (the one from Nicht not Loch) is another matter, they're clearly just trying to give us a chance!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voiceless_dental_and_alveolar_lateral_fricatives

I don't see where the concept that the sounds don't match the spelling comes from though
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Welsh_orthography

f is an english V
and ff is a english F
the only one that makes limited sense to an English speaker is dd being th (or Sh if you're from Fife but that could get confusing...)

more to that, you say that the "But the point is that the sounds assigned to each letter are broadly the same in each "
German V is close to English F
And German W is close to English V
Hence angry German bloke saying "Es ist Fow Vay nicht Vee DubleYoo"

Then you have G
In Dutch it's a velar fricative either voiced or unvoiced,
But in Swedish a G can be a /g/ or a /j/ depending on the letter that follows it. as in Göteborg

The madness of english has a fair bit to do with it having influences on top of the base Germanic of French, Norse, Norman French,  Gaelic, Welsh, Hindi...


The 3 major language groups on Europe, German, Romance and Slavic are quite modern and importantly were not particularly insular as they met each other on the continent, the Celtic languages on the other hand were quiet insular until very recent times though you can see the impact of Norse and Latin on Gaelic quite clearly if you're looking for it, maybe the Welsh protected their language as part of their fierce protection of it against the wishes of English rulers?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indo-European_languages

Re: Benjamin Allens Summer outing
« Reply #57 on: May 29, 2019, 05:33:38 pm »
My frustration on welsh rides is never actually getting to the mythical "Araf" - does anyone have an english translation for this town?

It's not a town it's an animal!  The Slow Araf hangs upside-down from branches snoozing safely during the day, emerging at dawn and dusk to scarper across the road into the path of unwary cyclists.  Being shy creatures, they tend to inhabit wooded areas near blind bends.  Their only known predator is the Tregaron Mountain Toad.

 ;D
You're only as successful as your last 1200...

Re: Benjamin Allens Summer outing
« Reply #58 on: May 29, 2019, 08:08:44 pm »
...on various events I can remember following signposts to Wentwrong, Llandfill and Pant-y-Gyrddll.

I was debating whether to visit the Bulky Sarnie after Newtown last week. In the end I didn't. I did purchase some stimulation at the control in Llandildoes though.

Re: Benjamin Allens Summer outing
« Reply #59 on: May 29, 2019, 08:53:07 pm »

An English/Welsh dictionary of place names would also have been handy on this ride as Blacksheep asked us distances to places in Welsh when they were only in English on the signposts!

Are you 100% sure?

The thing is Steve, there are numpties that read stuff posted here and think the statements are factual.

I think you will find that the locations refered to on the Brevet card were the Welsh names, and the locations on the signs were available in Welsh and English.

The answers were distances, and are common to both languages.

Efallai y dylai'r llwybr fod yn Gymraeg ysgrifenedig.

To clear this up, once and for all







Eddington Number 75

Re: Benjamin Allens Summer outing
« Reply #60 on: May 29, 2019, 11:46:51 pm »
What confuses me is that the distances on those road signs are only ever written in Welsh...

You're only as successful as your last 1200...

Re: Benjamin Allens Summer outing
« Reply #61 on: May 30, 2019, 12:13:01 am »
Just thought I would add my thanks to Mark and his wonderful volunteers for a great weekend a-wheel. I was fortunate to ride with a variety of riders, as I started fairly quickly, then gradually dropped back through the field as my pace slowed.

Re: Benjamin Allens Summer outing
« Reply #62 on: May 30, 2019, 02:00:54 pm »
What confuses me is that the distances on those road signs are only ever written in Welsh...

 ;D  ;D  ;D ;D  ;D  ;D ;D  ;D  ;D ;D  ;D  ;D  ;D  ;D  ;D ;D  ;D  ;D  ;D  ;D  ;D ;D  ;D  ;D

Not Arabic?
where you have a concentration of power in a few hands, all too frequently men with the mentality of gangsters get control. History has proven that. Power corrupts; absolute power corrupts absolutely.

simonp

  • Omnomnomnipotent.
Re: Benjamin Allens Summer outing
« Reply #63 on: May 30, 2019, 02:26:28 pm »
Reckon I might try getting on the turbo tonight for a spin. It won't be fun.


Re: Benjamin Allens Summer outing
« Reply #64 on: May 30, 2019, 02:41:15 pm »
Not Arabic?

Now you're just being silly.

Who on earth can read Arabic numbers for goodness sake!

 :P
You're only as successful as your last 1200...

FifeingEejit

  • Not Small just Far Away at the back
Re: Benjamin Allens Summer outing
« Reply #65 on: May 30, 2019, 03:07:53 pm »
Might be Welsh numerals after all
https://www.academia.edu/29148678/CELTIC_NUMBER_GLYPHS

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Re: Benjamin Allens Summer outing
« Reply #66 on: June 20, 2019, 06:49:22 pm »
Does anyone know if the road from Tintern to Chepstow has reopened yet?


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LFCC

Re: Benjamin Allens Summer outing
« Reply #67 on: June 20, 2019, 10:02:21 pm »
Does anyone know if the road from Tintern to Chepstow has reopened yet?


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I don't think so, it closed on May day bank holiday. And was due to close for at least 7 weeks, that would take it up until June 24th at the earliest. Monmouthshire CC have muted it could be closed until the end of June 2019, so an extra week on what they previously estimated.
where you have a concentration of power in a few hands, all too frequently men with the mentality of gangsters get control. History has proven that. Power corrupts; absolute power corrupts absolutely.

Re: Benjamin Allens Summer outing
« Reply #68 on: June 20, 2019, 10:07:17 pm »
Thanks. Passing through 2nd week of July.
Could be using the diversion again.

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LFCC

Re: Benjamin Allens Summer outing
« Reply #69 on: June 21, 2019, 04:41:48 pm »
Time for some Strava stalking.  Pick a segment like this one https://www.strava.com/segments/1102240 and filter it for the last week or last month.  In this case it was last ridden on 9th June.