Author Topic: The AUK Regulations  (Read 4003 times)

Manotea

  • Where there is doubt...
The AUK Regulations
« on: November 16, 2018, 09:43:14 am »
Students of things official will be aware that the AUK Board have been proposing a redraft of the AUK Regulations.

This has long been an interest of mine so I thought I'd have a go, the results of which can be seen at regs.paudax.com.

Aside from some inevitable fine tuning my feeling is the document is more or less 'ready to go'. The document has been available  through the AUK forum for a while but as we head towards the AUK Reunion it seems appropriate to bring it to the attention of a wider audience. Regardless of whether it is adopted, I'm happy at least to have taken the opportunity to set out my view on what the AUK regulations should look like, as they will inevitably shape the future character and direction of AUK.

For me, the key points are that:
- AUK is first and foremost a Club that should be governed by its Members. With that in mind I've worked to clarify the relationship between the AUK Company and Club, working on the basis that the Company (only) exists to serve the Club.

   So whilst the AUK Company Articles define the governance of the Company and the powers of the Board to manage the administration of the Company & Club, key Club matters such as membership fees and charges, affiliations, events and awards are laid out as AUK Club regulations.
 
- These are the AUK Regulations, i.e. not the ACP/LRM/UAF regulations.

- These are the AUK Regulations, i.e., the governing set of rules covering AUK Club events and activities laid out as a single document.
 
   Clearly some additional notes will be useful to explain the background to various parts of the regulations, to explain why things are the way they are, but the immediate aim is to focus on the regulations themselves. Doubtless more detailed/relaxed event specific notes for Event Organisers and Riders will form part of the AUK website and event documentation, however, that comes under the heading of presentation. This document represents the underlying regulations on which any such advice would be based, and would be managed by AUK Members through the AGM rather than by AUK Board and website content editors.

N.B., if the document appears rather long, it's simply because you've never seen the regs for all the various AUK events and awards in one place before!

In taking on this project I aimed to improve the regulations structure and language, so that they are easy(er) to navigate, easy(er) to read and to improve their clarity of meaning. Whilst sections have been restructured and various clauses reordered and reworded, it is intended the revised regulations remain consistent with the current regulations and thereby with the AUK systems and website(s). I’ll look to prove that later by providing a cross-map of the current and revised regulations. Any changes to the current regulations - mainly to codify current conventions and practices not included in the current regulations - are laid out in the introductory notes.

Happy reading. Feedback welcome.

Paul Stewart
AUK General Secretary, 2013-2015

p.s., To address a point of concern to many upfront, the revised regs continue to recognise two basic categories of Brevet, BR and BP. This provids a simple way of defining how AUK events are categorised for AUK awards purposes. By allowing that all AUK events fall into one of these two categories means they are automatically eligible for RRTY, AAA, etc. as appropriate. This approach does not rule out additional Brevet Categories and/or award schemes (Diagonals / Verticals /  Squares / whatever) being introduced at a later date. Also, eligible AUK events would continue to be validated by ACP/LRM/UAF as now subject to meeting the requirements of those organisations, so in that respect, ‘nothing has changed’.

Re: The AUK Regulations
« Reply #1 on: November 16, 2018, 12:11:16 pm »
 :thumbsup: Looks really good Paul. I hope this sees the light of day.

I've only had a quick skim through, but spotted that you've appeared to make one rather challenging award even harder to obtain  ;D

Quote
AAA Century, for obtaining 1000 AAA points in one season

Manotea

  • Where there is doubt...
Re: The AUK Regulations
« Reply #2 on: November 29, 2018, 12:17:12 am »
Thank you for your feedback on my redraft of the AUK regulations, the current draft of which can be found at regs.paudax.com.

As noted, I'm pleased to have worked through this as a personal project, to see if it is possible to draw all of the regs together in a cohesive document and establish a clear relationship between the AUK Articles and the Regs.

I'm generally happy with the end result and that the feedback received to date is so overwhelmingly positive (albeit from a rather small sample !). I also take a lot of comfort from the absence of a mob with pitchforks. :)

The time to decide "what happens next" is rapidly approaching though, so the question is, is there any interest or appeitite to progress this to the AGM in February.

It may be that you feel that now is not the time to progress this but it does seem to me that there is a strong case for 'action this day'.

What do you think?

FifeingEejit

  • Not Small just Far Away at the back
Re: The AUK Regulations
« Reply #3 on: November 29, 2018, 10:55:23 am »
Appendix 2 point 2.7 doesn't quite read how it's intended...

This is definitley something that's needed, much clearer and easier to read through than those currently on AUK Web.

This is also the first I've heard of an EPE... Possibly useful given a far number of the Scottish Perms have a control about 50k from my local shop.

mattc

  • n.b. have grown beard since photo taken
    • Didcot Audaxes
Re: The AUK Regulations
« Reply #4 on: November 29, 2018, 12:05:41 pm »
OT EPE stuff:

(click to show/hide)
Has never ridden RAAM
---------
No.11  Because of the great host of those who dislike the least appearance of "swank " when they travel the roads and lanes. - From Kuklos' 39 Articles

Re: The AUK Regulations
« Reply #5 on: November 29, 2018, 12:53:33 pm »
I think this is certainly worthy of ‘action this today’.

I would suggest splitting this into 2 debates though, to ensure clarity.

Firstly, the updated structure, bringing everything into a more logical and understandable order.

Secondly, the proposed changes compared to how things are done currently.

I’m happy to re-read with a fine toothcombe.

FifeingEejit

  • Not Small just Far Away at the back
Re: The AUK Regulations
« Reply #6 on: November 29, 2018, 01:20:45 pm »
OT EPE stuff:

(click to show/hide)

Ah!
Until then if I feel like starting one of the handful of perms that go through Perth at Perth, it'll need to be the car and parking (cheaper than the train).
Although I'm planning to start one of them in Stonehaven on Saturday...

The increasing lack of 24hr available cash machines due to bank closures is another threat to perms unless GPS only validation becomes an option for organizers.

mattc

  • n.b. have grown beard since photo taken
    • Didcot Audaxes
Re: The AUK Regulations
« Reply #7 on: November 29, 2018, 02:46:26 pm »
...

The increasing lack of 24hr available cash machines due to bank closures is another threat to perms unless GPS only validation becomes an option for organizers.
It has!!!  :thumbsup:

Quite a recent thing, and so far only adopted by a few [most of whom were let into the secret early - so it's not 100% down to the rest being dinosaurs :P

Someone else can find a link for you to read on this one :)
Has never ridden RAAM
---------
No.11  Because of the great host of those who dislike the least appearance of "swank " when they travel the roads and lanes. - From Kuklos' 39 Articles

FifeingEejit

  • Not Small just Far Away at the back
Re: The AUK Regulations
« Reply #8 on: November 29, 2018, 04:39:04 pm »
...

The increasing lack of 24hr available cash machines due to bank closures is another threat to perms unless GPS only validation becomes an option for organizers.
It has!!!  :thumbsup:

Quite a recent thing, and so far only adopted by a few [most of whom were let into the secret early - so it's not 100% down to the rest being dinosaurs :P

Someone else can find a link for you to read on this one :)

I know GPS validation is available, but not GPS only.
As in to allow the 24hr controls requirement I've read exists, it's near impossible to define a route with that limitation for paper based validation.

LittleWheelsandBig

  • Whimsy Rider
Re: The AUK Regulations
« Reply #9 on: November 29, 2018, 04:45:08 pm »
In most countries, signatures from the public are accepted as proof of passage. Not every country requires a receipt.
Wheel meet again, don't know where, don't know when...

FifeingEejit

  • Not Small just Far Away at the back
Re: The AUK Regulations
« Reply #10 on: November 29, 2018, 04:57:47 pm »
In most countries, signatures from the public are accepted as proof of passage. Not every country requires a receipt.

hm... allowed for AUK perms?
Coupar Angus is a concern as it has only 1 outdoor ATM left and there's no night concierge at the hotel if we're after midnight, but chances of finding either a gadgie or navigational rally marshal are reasonably good... 

Re: The AUK Regulations
« Reply #11 on: November 29, 2018, 05:11:58 pm »
Quote
Reference to ‘Points’ for championship trophies has been dropped and those awards are now based on distance. References to ‘Points’ have long been a cause of consternation for many because of the immediate connotation of ‘competition’. Whilst basing such awards on distance might seem a semantic difference, such is far more in keeping with ‘the spirit of audax’.


I wonder if that might cause problems with the AAA trophies.

The idea that 'Points' conveys competition, while 'Championship' does not, is an interesting semantic distinction.

Manotea

  • Where there is doubt...
Re: The AUK Regulations
« Reply #12 on: November 29, 2018, 06:05:43 pm »
Agreed it's a fine point, but at least awards for riding the furthest are based on, er, riding the furthest.

AAA and FWC remain points based, as the former reflects AUKs measure of climb tather than the actual, and the latter is a hybrid award, distance plus climb.

Manotea

  • Where there is doubt...
Re: The AUK Regulations
« Reply #13 on: November 29, 2018, 06:13:20 pm »
EPE... my understanding is the back-end systems support it, more or less, as in, 'it has been done. The bottleneck is for the front end, i.e., entry process and documentation. I suspect an email to the ECE sec might be the way forward pro tem (that's me off his Christmas card list).

Either way, useful to document the extended event in generic terms allowing EPE in principle.

Re: The AUK Regulations
« Reply #14 on: November 29, 2018, 06:20:27 pm »
Agreed it's a fine point, but at least awards for riding the furthest are based on, er, riding the furthest.



The lack of points for rides under 200k, and the 50% rule have long been an integral part of the battle over 'The Spirit of Audax'. Some might even say that such battles are the true 'Spirit of Audax'.

Suffice to say, the 'distance' champion hasn't necessarily ridden the furthest. That might be someone who does a 100k Permanent ever day.

Manotea

  • Where there is doubt...
Re: The AUK Regulations
« Reply #15 on: November 29, 2018, 06:36:22 pm »
Some might even say that such battles are the true 'Spirit of Audax'

It's a measure of just how far I have fallen from such a state of grace that I'm not going to argue with you. :)

LittleWheelsandBig

  • Whimsy Rider
Re: The AUK Regulations
« Reply #16 on: November 29, 2018, 08:15:17 pm »
FE, of course not for AUK perms as AUK seems fixated on receipts. Other countries accept signatures for perms and calendar brevets. AUK recognise overseas BRMs even if signatures are used for proof of passage.
Wheel meet again, don't know where, don't know when...

alfapete

  • Oh dear
Re: The AUK Regulations
« Reply #17 on: November 29, 2018, 08:18:11 pm »
Thank you for your feedback on my redraft of the AUK regulations, the current draft of which can be found at regs.paudax.com.

What do you think?

I wonder whether the very small number of forum posts on here reflects the lack of interest in the minutiae of the Regulations. I'm sure (because you've told me) that there might be a strong case for a fundamental revision, but personally I'm not interested in reading through and interpreting the significance of what you're proposing - it just goes over my head.

A topic only for those who love committees, I fear.
alfapete - that's the Pete that drives the Alfa

Manotea

  • Where there is doubt...
Re: The AUK Regulations
« Reply #18 on: November 29, 2018, 10:17:04 pm »
Thank you for your feedback on my redraft of the AUK regulations, the current draft of which can be found at regs.paudax.com.
What do you think?

I wonder whether the very small number of forum posts on here reflects the lack of interest in the minutiae of the Regulations. I'm sure (because you've told me) that there might be a strong case for a fundamental revision, but personally I'm not interested in reading through and interpreting the significance of what you're proposing - it just goes over my head.

A topic only for those who love committees, I fear.

Well, that excludes me, obvs. I do like a bit of clarity though, and for things to be well ordered.

I suspect - know - that youre not alone. Many if not most will feel this is simply not something they want to or feel qualified to get involved with, and many of those that are interested will simply not want to comment publically for fear of being seen to "take a position" or risk upsetting somebody. Fact is that even on the AUK forum, the number of people commenting on 'official' stuff - or anything for that matter ( :) ) seldom reaches double digits. But it all gets read...

However one way or another the AUK Regulations are set to be redrafted, so this issue isn't going to go away.

FifeingEejit

  • Not Small just Far Away at the back
Re: The AUK Regulations
« Reply #19 on: November 29, 2018, 10:48:06 pm »
FE, of course not for AUK perms as AUK seems fixated on receipts. Other countries accept signatures for perms and calendar brevets. AUK recognise overseas BRMs even if signatures are used for proof of passage.
I thought not

Back up selfie at the town sign with time and date on it for macnasty if the Coupar Angus atm and closing times go against us...

Sent from my BKL-L09 using Tapatalk


mattc

  • n.b. have grown beard since photo taken
    • Didcot Audaxes
Re: The AUK Regulations
« Reply #20 on: November 30, 2018, 09:31:37 am »
Thank you for your feedback on my redraft of the AUK regulations, the current draft of which can be found at regs.paudax.com.

What do you think?

I wonder whether the very small number of forum posts on here reflects the lack of interest in the minutiae of the Regulations. I'm sure (because you've told me) that there might be a strong case for a fundamental revision, but personally I'm not interested in reading through and interpreting the significance of what you're proposing - it just goes over my head.

A topic only for those who love committees, I fear.
[My bold] that is probably my category! I'm not uninterested in the issues.

Not SO sure about "those who love committees"; I love the people part of committes. Sharing ideas, getting useful stuff done, the smug feeling that all the moaners out there couldn't get off THEIR arses to actually sort things out ... ;)

But I don't really have a head for legalese and minutae - give me a graph or a spreadsheet and I'm happy. Hats off to the "Paudax"es of this world who save the rest of us from this stuff  :-*
Has never ridden RAAM
---------
No.11  Because of the great host of those who dislike the least appearance of "swank " when they travel the roads and lanes. - From Kuklos' 39 Articles

Cudzoziemiec

  • Solar powered, tea fuelled cycle-wol
Re: The AUK Regulations
« Reply #21 on: November 30, 2018, 10:04:16 am »
Agreed it's a fine point, but at least awards for riding the furthest are based on, er, riding the furthest.

AAA and FWC remain points based, as the former reflects AUKs measure of climb tather than the actual, and the latter is a hybrid award, distance plus climb.
So someone with copious free time and no other interests (and how else would anyone become AUK champion?) could theoretically ride two 100km events every day. At the end of the year they'd have not a single point but would have ridden 73,000km and quite possibly be distance champion. I'd really love it if someone did this first under the present regulations and then under these new proposed regs.  :thumbsup:
An ungovernable laughter, a joyous agitation which makes the summer stretching before you seem like an unrolling canvas on which you might draw those first rude pure strokes that are free. (Capote)

dogtrousers

  • Pantaloon
Re: The AUK Regulations
« Reply #22 on: November 30, 2018, 10:05:28 am »
A bit of nit pickery.  I'm not qualified to comment on the substance of the document.

2.8 There's no explicit explanantion that SR stands for Super Randonneur (add to glossary?)
8.7 Is "proof of progress" (not capitalised and not in glossary) different to "Proof of Passage" (capitalised and in glossary)?  Add to glossary or change to Proof of Passage
8.8  The list of route types is not a complete list (unlike the other 8.x lists) as it includes only two exceptional route types and does not have a "normal" entry.  Consider describing it as a list of additional route characteristics.
11.1 proof of passage is not capitalised, for consistency with other sections it should be. (Although whether it really should be capitalised is another question)
11.5.6 "beyond their Control"  No need to capitalise Control in this instance
11.5.7 "complaints process"  Isn't it called grievance process?  Or is that something else?
Appendix 2.  4 "Randonnee Round The Year"  Is that the correct name.  Is it not "Randonneur Round The Year"? (cf aukweb.net)
Appendix 3.  Consider renaming appendix to "Additional Event Types"

Cudzoziemiec

  • Solar powered, tea fuelled cycle-wol
Re: The AUK Regulations
« Reply #23 on: November 30, 2018, 10:06:50 am »
...

The increasing lack of 24hr available cash machines due to bank closures is another threat to perms unless GPS only validation becomes an option for organizers.
It has!!!  :thumbsup:

Quite a recent thing, and so far only adopted by a few [most of whom were let into the secret early - so it's not 100% down to the rest being dinosaurs :P

Someone else can find a link for you to read on this one :)

I know GPS validation is available, but not GPS only.
As in to allow the 24hr controls requirement I've read exists, it's near impossible to define a route with that limitation for paper based validation.
Not sure I understand this. GPS tracks are accepted with no other proof of passage for DIYs so why not for Perms? What does a receipt add to a GPS track, and what does it add on a Perm that it does not add on a DIY?
An ungovernable laughter, a joyous agitation which makes the summer stretching before you seem like an unrolling canvas on which you might draw those first rude pure strokes that are free. (Capote)

j_a_m_e_s_

  • Prisoner 17091
    • AUK results
Re: The AUK Regulations
« Reply #24 on: November 30, 2018, 10:33:34 am »
Thank you for your feedback on my redraft of the AUK regulations, the current draft of which can be found at regs.paudax.com.

What do you think?

I wonder whether the very small number of forum posts on here reflects the lack of interest in the minutiae of the Regulations. I'm sure (because you've told me) that there might be a strong case for a fundamental revision, but personally I'm not interested in reading through and interpreting the significance of what you're proposing - it just goes over my head.

A topic only for those who love committees, I fear.
[My bold] that is probably my category! I'm not uninterested in the issues.

Not SO sure about "those who love committees"; I love the people part of committes. Sharing ideas, getting useful stuff done, the smug feeling that all the moaners out there couldn't get off THEIR arses to actually sort things out ... ;)

But I don't really have a head for legalese and minutae - give me a graph or a spreadsheet and I'm happy. Hats off to the "Paudax"es of this world who save the rest of us from this stuff  :-*

Many if not most will feel this is simply not something they want to or feel qualified to get involved with, and many of those that are interested will simply not want to comment publically for fear of being seen to "take a position" or risk upsetting somebody. Fact is that even on the AUK forum, the number of people commenting on 'official' stuff - or anything for that matter ( :) ) seldom reaches double digits.

However one way or another the AUK Regulations are set to be redrafted, so this issue isn't going to go away.

I've been relatively vocal over certain matters recently 😇

After reading a certain three page post on AUK forum, delving into case law etc its little wonder that people may feel they lack the wit and intellect to participate. I do. As has been mentioned before, there does seem to be distinct sense of apathy, be it from being "new" or otherwise. Others don't have too much of an investment I guess. Or a combination of both?

The boards interpretations of "minutiae" have lead to quite lively debate recently already, so perhaps an independent party should re write them?

FWIW - I think it'll be what it'll be. One way or another, those in charge will sort it out. So despite my vocalness, I must be one of the apathetic masses.  :(

Rule 77