Author Topic: Spokes  (Read 3745 times)

marcusjb

  • Full of bon courage.
    • Occasional wittering
Re: Spokes
« Reply #25 on: February 15, 2019, 05:48:56 pm »

Is this the time to ask: How far can you ride with 1 broken spoke on a 32 spoke wheel?

J

To the end of PBP if I had to.

But I'm sub 60Kg - so don't tend to break spokes very often (thinking back to when I started riding bikes, I think I am somewhere around a broken spoke every 21 years).

I do carry a fiber fix on longer solo rides.  I might on stuff like PBP etc.  I have the further advantage of using a pretty standard bike, so none of this disc stuff, through axles etc. - so I dare say I could just buy a new wheel at a control or local bike shop if things went to shit on PBP.
Right! What's next?

Ooooh. That sounds like a daft idea.  I am in!

Kim

  • 2nd in the world
Re: Spokes
« Reply #26 on: February 15, 2019, 06:15:47 pm »
I've got a fiber fix in my toolkit, never had to use it.

I have appropriate spare spokes attached to my touring bike.  I don't bother on the others.
To ride the Windcheetah, first, you must embrace the cantilever...

bhoot

  • MemSec (ex-Mrs RRtY)
Re: Spokes
« Reply #27 on: February 15, 2019, 06:21:34 pm »
We have had two broken spokes on the tandem, and the second one was on PBP. I think we hit a very uneven level crossing rather hard. Fortunately it was just before a control (Loudeac I think), we had spare spokes and a mechanic sorted it for us for 10 euros while we had lunch. We probably could have got round with the remaining 39 or 47 spokes (can't remember which wheel we had in) but it was nice not to have to.

LittleWheelsandBig

  • Whimsy Rider
Re: Spokes
« Reply #28 on: February 15, 2019, 06:31:01 pm »
Boab's and my 600 tandem pre-qualifier was about 10 minutes away from HDing due to multiple broken spokes in a previously reliable rear wheel. HK's first PBP on tandem needed a wheel rebuild during the event.

I've ridden several hundred kms with a broken spoke to finish a brevet but I'm happy to true wheels to compensate. I break about 1 spoke/ 6 years on my own wheels with occasional Al nipple failure in between.
Wheel meet again, don't know where, don't know when...

wilkyboy

  • "nick" by any other name
    • 16-inch wheels
Re: Spokes
« Reply #29 on: February 15, 2019, 07:35:18 pm »
Is this the time to ask: How far can you ride with 1 broken spoke on a 32 spoke wheel?

I started a 200km event with FOUR broken spokes on a rear wheel.  I can't remember if it was 28 or 32-spoke.  Rim brakes, too.  I finished without drama.

That said, little wheels tend to be f**ckin' strong compared to their bigger, greater-bridging-forces-between-spokes, full-size counterparts  :thumbsup:
RRTY #6 done; #7 aborted and restarted.

LittleWheelsandBig

  • Whimsy Rider
Re: Spokes
« Reply #30 on: February 15, 2019, 07:39:45 pm »
This is true. My PBP03 2-sp coaster-brake Moulton finished with 6 fewer rear spokes than it started with (28) and ended up with a rumba rhythm as the wheel rotated. I really should have replaced the near-40 year old galvanised spokes before the start line...
Wheel meet again, don't know where, don't know when...

wilkyboy

  • "nick" by any other name
    • 16-inch wheels
Re: Spokes
« Reply #31 on: February 15, 2019, 07:40:51 pm »
Come close to Elliptigos at your peril.

'Snot really fair, that comment, Phil — having ridden on the gearbox of said trike for [quite] a bit, the line that it's necessary for them take DOES need to be accounted for if you're in close proximity, and I believe that might've been the issue at the time — lack of attention by a rider in close proximity.  My understanding is that the E-go was adjacent (offside) to the tandem, and so needed to exercise the greater caution.  And having ridden with E-gos, they're by far the more manoeuvrable of the two, laterally-speaking.

That said, my recollection is also that the E-gos' on-the-go support mechanic played a significantly positive role in getting the tandem on its way, so not all bad  :thumbsup:
RRTY #6 done; #7 aborted and restarted.

fboab

  • It's a fecking serious business, riding a bike
Re: Spokes
« Reply #32 on: February 15, 2019, 07:42:43 pm »
I fear LW&B has been a sufferer of the fboab-factor. I'm way [groan] more than marcus's 60kg and it makes a difference. So do the roads.
A previous rear wheel on that tandem shed 4 spokes on Postie's Wonderfull Wessex 300 in 2015. We broke a couple on an Upper Thames. I broke one on those darned Borders of Belgium pothole strewn tracks.

In the tandem bag I carry at least 1 fibrefix, at least 2 spokes and have disc brakes on the rear so can ride on with a minor pringle if my lard curses the ride.

On my solos I don't carry spare spokes or a fixer- I don't know how to repair wheels and I'm rarely anywhere where I'd have more than a long walk, irritation & DNF. I rode 300+km on 27 spokes on the rear, it was fine.
Spokes are like any other possible failure, you balance up likelihood of failure, how you'd manage that failure, and the 'cost' of doing something about it.
TSS is not Total Sex Score, Chris!

Re: Spokes
« Reply #33 on: February 15, 2019, 07:43:03 pm »
Exactly that happened to me approaching Brampton on LEL two years ago.  Kind mechanic there re-trued the wheel and I carried on to Loughton with no problems and one spoke down.

Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk


wilkyboy

  • "nick" by any other name
    • 16-inch wheels
Re: Spokes
« Reply #34 on: February 15, 2019, 07:44:16 pm »
On my remote bikepacking shenanigans I carry a fibrefix emergency spoke.

Me too  :thumbsup:  Mid-Wales can be unforgiving in the walk-home department ...

For audax I carry one.  For LONG audax, i.e. PBP and LEL, I carry two, just in case — it might not even be me who needs them  O:-)
RRTY #6 done; #7 aborted and restarted.

wilkyboy

  • "nick" by any other name
    • 16-inch wheels
Re: Spokes
« Reply #35 on: February 15, 2019, 07:45:21 pm »
I'm way [groan] more than marcus's 60kg ...

And who, this side of 30, isn't?!!  ::-)  ;)

Edit: Marcus, obvs ...
RRTY #6 done; #7 aborted and restarted.

Bianchi Boy

  • Cycling is my doctor
  • Is it possible for a ride to be too long?
    • Reading Cycling Club
Re: Spokes
« Reply #36 on: February 15, 2019, 08:29:03 pm »
I have not broken a spoke in about 5 years. I build my own wheels and do about 12Kkm per year. I will carry 2 spokes on the ride that will do for front and back. Now there again I have never broken a front spoke ever.

BB
Set a fire for a man and he will be warm for a day, set a man on fire and he is warm for the rest of his life.

zigzag

  • unfuckwithable
Re: Spokes
« Reply #37 on: February 15, 2019, 08:54:48 pm »
sometimes you just have to ride and hope... that everything's gonna be just fine.

this strategy has worked for ten years so far, fingers crossed for the future!

Re: Spokes
« Reply #38 on: February 15, 2019, 10:55:36 pm »
Quote
'Snot really fair, that comment, Phil — having ridden on the gearbox of said trike for [quite] a bit, the line that it's necessary for them take DOES need to be accounted for if you're in close proximity, and I believe that might've been the issue at the time — lack of attention by a rider in close proximity.  My understanding is that the E-go was adjacent (offside) to the tandem, and so needed to exercise the greater caution.  And having ridden with E-gos, they're by far the more manoeuvrable of the two, laterally-speaking.
Just to set the record  straight.
We wez gannin' in a  straight  line when we wez dunched.
Quote
That said, my recollection is also that the E-gos' on-the-go support mechanic played a significantly positive role in getting the tandem on its way, so not all bad  :thumbsup:
It's all history and  forgiven now, but we were  left with a collapsed wheel, 10 spokes broken on one side and an offer of spares to collect from the Go mechanic 50 Km away at Mortagne - he was not  leaving his post!
I then started to think for ourselves and remembered I had packed six spare spokes  - 2  front 4 rear luckily all the same length. With the trike on its side the moto crew (2  big blokes) stood on the good wheel and lifted the rim back into position whilst I relaced (I had a nipple holder/driver and proper Spokey). At  Mortagne we got more spokes but no help from the event mechanics or officials to find somewhere to facilitate repairs. We rode about another 200K with a ~50mm wobble before I was able to replace the other four spokes and true the wheel beside the road in daylight.

Re: Spokes
« Reply #39 on: February 16, 2019, 06:22:54 am »

Is this the time to ask: How far can you ride with 1 broken spoke on a 32 spoke wheel?

J

I rode 800km from Paris to Austria (TCR volunteer) last summer with a busted spoke on the front. I'm a bit of a lump and the bike was fully laden. Only went a few mm out of true and that was with 28 spokes.

whosatthewheel

Re: Spokes
« Reply #40 on: February 16, 2019, 07:41:13 am »
An average bike with > 1 speed has 3 different spoke lengths... so if you want to carry 3 spares, then you need 9 spokes or you need to decide priorities.
If you are running tubeless tyres, the hassle of replacing a spoke might overwhelm the drawback of riding with a missing spoke.

If you break a spoke on the rear drive side, you also need to be able to remove the cassette to access the hub flange and if the largest sprocket is quite big, you might need to do the same even for the rear non drive side. The vast majority of spoke breakages happen at the rear... but you never know.

In essence, don't bother... if you break a spoke, find a bike shop. If your wheels are well built (28 spokes or more) you should be able to ride with a missing spoke until you find a shop

Re: Spokes
« Reply #41 on: February 16, 2019, 09:06:05 am »
The pbp website preparation page suggests carrying 5 to 8 spokes.

Really?

I think I've had 3 spoke failures in many years. Never more than one on the same ride. I I think one spoke is a reasonable precaution 2 would be very cautious more than that suggests you doubt the reliability of your equipment and should probably a dress it before starting.
The preparation page is not PBP advice: they've reproduced the advice of a Chilian randonneur, Juan Salinas - I don't know wether this is to distance themselves from the advice or endorse it.

Carrying 5-8 spokes does sound a very pessimistic approach, on a foundation of doubt in the state of one's wheels. Perhaps we'll see an increase in spoke failure through fatigue (as opposed to physical damage by collision or chain action) as disc brakes increase in use and the longevity of rims rockets. Up till now mostly rims will go before the spokes reach failure through fatigue. So it's reused spokes (in a rim replacement) that finally let go rather than spokes as 'old' as the rims to which they're laced.

For a pair of normal wheels (rim brakes, 32+ and 3 x) the spoke lengths are often close enough not to need to carry different lengths. Looking up mine on
https://www.cyclebasket.com/info/common-spoke-lengths.php
a 296mm length would do for front and rear (both sides). Looking at the table one can see a lot of combinations where a single spoke length would do (if discrepancy go short). I carry a spare spoke on long rides when I've got the saddle bag or the frame bag fitted. Besides doing spoke work that length of metal might be useful for other jury rig repairs.
If a rider on PBP or indeed another long audax that they want to finish has a spoke fail, surely most will stop, remove the spoke if they can (or twist it to another), true the rim as well as possible, open the calipers a bit, and carry on, to the finish or to a bike shop (obviously depends on the time of day/night and day of week). I'm (probably falsely) assuming that everyone carries a spoke key in their tool/spares kit.
If they're carrying a spoke as well, then all but the right rear ones can be replaced at a convenient stop almost as quickly as removing, repairing and refitting a tube. Of course the spokes one can't replace without extra tools on the rear right side are those most likely to go, not because of increased stress: spokes fatigue at the same rate whatever the load (theory, puts head over parapet perhaps, especially in such esteemed company) but because they've more likely to have sustained damage (proximity to RD and chain).

Re: Spokes
« Reply #42 on: February 16, 2019, 09:54:28 am »
In an effort to avoid spoke-replacement difficulties, I had my audax rear wheel (with discs) built with a hub for straight-pull spokes, and I carry a few spares. In theory these should be replaceable without any wheel disassembly. I couldn't spec this for the front wheel because AFAIK there is no suitable dynamo that supports straight-pull spokes.

But, never having had a broken spoke, I'm ignorant about what happens - it is possible that a spoke fails in such a way that it's necessary to take off the rim tape and get at the nipple? If so with tubeless tyres that could be ... interesting.

SPB

Re: Spokes
« Reply #43 on: February 16, 2019, 10:13:56 am »
In an effort to avoid spoke-replacement difficulties, I had my audax rear wheel (with discs) built with a hub for straight-pull spokes, and I carry a few spares. In theory these should be replaceable without any wheel disassembly. I couldn't spec this for the front wheel because AFAIK there is no suitable dynamo that supports straight-pull spokes.


For straight pull hubs I'd carry bladed spokes, and something to grip them with (or would if I didn't have a fibre fix).  Otherwise they can be difficult to keep from turning as you try to tension by turning the nipple.


stefan

  • aka martin
Re: Spokes
« Reply #44 on: February 16, 2019, 10:18:08 am »
it is possible that a spoke fails in such a way that it's necessary to take off the rim tape and get at the nipple? If so with tubeless tyres that could be ... interesting.

yes - exactly that happened to me last year on a ride that I was ECE'ing to 200km.

With sticky tubeless-compatible rim tape that had to come off I couldn't deploy my fibre-fix, so it was ride-ending. One reason I've given up on tubeless - though you could carry spare rim tape I guess.

SPB

Re: Spokes
« Reply #45 on: February 16, 2019, 10:29:09 am »
With sticky tubeless-compatible rim tape that had to come off I couldn't deploy my fibre-fix, so it was ride-ending. One reason I've given up on tubeless - though you could carry spare rim tape I guess.

Couldn't you just put the tape back afterwards and put a tube in?  Doesn't matter if it won't restick, as it's more than strong enough to keep that tube from puncturing on the spoke ends.

Re: Spokes
« Reply #46 on: February 16, 2019, 10:30:42 am »
With sticky tubeless-compatible rim tape that had to come off I couldn't deploy my fibre-fix, so it was ride-ending. One reason I've given up on tubeless - though you could carry spare rim tape I guess.

Hmm, right - so I need add a rim strip to my kit in case this happens (I already carry a clincher tyre and tube). I'm planning to stick with tubeless this year (GP5000 TL seems v. nice so far!) but it has to be said, "extra difficulties in the event of spoke failure" is another strike against tubeless for long-distance cycling.

vorsprung

  • Opposites Attract
    • Audaxing
Re: Spokes
« Reply #47 on: February 16, 2019, 10:35:06 am »
When I did mechanics duties on LEL I spent the whole of one afternoon fixing spokes. I was amazed how many front wheel spokes had broken.  Not sure I've ever broken a front wheel spoke.

So spoke failures do happen

The worst type of wheel seemed to be "hand made" wheels with 28h or less.   I think people just buy them because they look nice or something.  There are some duff wheels out there. 

Carrying 5 spokes seems to be approaching the problem the wrong way.  Ride 36h wheels.  Have strong rims.  Miss the potholes as much as possible.

Maybe carry 1 spoke or a fibre fix.  As spokes are in different lengths for different wheels, the one to carry is a drive side rear spoke.  Perhaps that's where the high count of spare spokes comes from.  2 for each of rear sides and 1 for the front is 5

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SPB

Re: Spokes
« Reply #48 on: February 16, 2019, 10:37:46 am »
..."extra difficulties in the event of spoke failure" is another strike against tubeless for long-distance cycling.

Don't agree there are any.

Re: Spokes
« Reply #49 on: February 16, 2019, 10:42:37 am »
Don't agree there are any.

Wouldn't they'd be:

- sealant everywhere
- tubeless tape that can shred when peeled off (if it's been on for a long time I've had this with Stan's tape)
- having removed the tubeless tyre, even if the tape can be re-fitted then re-seating the tyre roadside is well-nigh impossible - so need to switch to a tubed system

?