Author Topic: what 3 words  (Read 2038 times)

Cudzoziemiec

  • Solar powered, tea fuelled cycle-wol
Re: what 3 words
« Reply #50 on: March 29, 2019, 02:27:11 pm »
Talk of emergency operator training is missing the point. It's got to be simple for the caller to use in an emergency. Systems that locate mobile phones sound excellent, but I note the Advanced Mobile Location wikipage only talks about Europe. Is there anything comparable in, say, Kenya? Not that that makes a proprietary system necessarily suitable (and anyway, you first need emergency ambulances).

All of which is concentrating on emergency applications to the exclusion of the commercial ones.
An ungovernable laughter, a joyous agitation which makes the summer stretching before you seem like an unrolling canvas on which you might draw those first rude pure strokes that are free. (Capote)

Re: what 3 words
« Reply #51 on: March 29, 2019, 03:11:15 pm »
Don't know how much more there is to say that Terence Eden (and others) haven't already said.

w3w is a nice toy idea poorly implemented as a closed shop solution. It has a bunch of positives but these are more than outweighed by the significant negatives.

If technology is available (which it would need to be in order to use w3w) then there are a number of better solutions.
"Yes please" said Squirrel "biscuits are our favourite things."

Kim

  • 2nd in the world
Re: what 3 words
« Reply #52 on: March 29, 2019, 03:11:52 pm »
Talk of emergency operator training is missing the point. It's got to be simple for the caller to use in an emergency.

Well, in the (first-world) outdoors emergency use-case, the caller wanting to specify a map reference would seem to have a better working knowledge of such things than the operators, which points to a tangentially relevant training issue[1].  There's certainly a strong argument for an end-to-end technological solution for muggles getting into trouble outdoors (I recall a news article recently where someone was trapped in a car in a ditch, and was able determine their location by sending a geotagged InstaTwitFace post, which was converted into something the emergency services could understand by a tech-savvy friend).

Commercial applications are about de-facto standards.  If $shite_courier, UberRoo or the Mega-Global Fruit Corporation of Cupertino, USAnia heavily buy into what3words (or any other coordinate format), it will gain momentum.  Note the way Google Maps has made WGS84 in decimal degrees the de-facto standard for coordinates on the Web (even if end-users rarely interact with them directly).

The people who really benefit from coordinates rather than addresses (ie. anyone surveying things, directing helicopters, maintaining infrastructure in remote places or whatever) are surely already using them, and all what3words really gives them is a system that fails in different ways when you read things out over the phone.  The real advantage is for the intersection of people who need coordinate precision for something, but aren't happy dealing with coordinates - eg. telling couriers that your postal address is on $some_road, but they need to go to the service road at hopscotch.aardvark.umbrella instead.



[1] Either of emergency operators, or of people going hiking naively assuming their map and compass will help them summon help without the aid of a postcode database.
To ride the Windcheetah, first, you must embrace the cantilever...

quixoticgeek

  • Mostly Harmless
Re: what 3 words
« Reply #53 on: March 29, 2019, 03:23:16 pm »
If in a perfect world with great signal for data and GPS that you could send easy to the emergency services, that would be great.

This is why I have an Inreach Explorer+ device. I press the magic button, and hold it for 5 seconds, and a helicopter or other suitable rescue team comes and gets me. Global coverage.

For those talking about RAC et al, there are Hectometer posts every 100m on most big roads, You can then call in and say "M25, near post 12345" Obviously this doesn't work on the B3149 under a tree...

J
--
Beer, bikes, and backpacking
http://b.42q.eu/

Kim

  • 2nd in the world
Re: what 3 words
« Reply #54 on: March 29, 2019, 03:36:12 pm »
This is why I have an Inreach Explorer+ device. I press the magic button, and hold it for 5 seconds, and a helicopter or other suitable rescue team comes and gets me. Global coverage.

Presumably there's an operator in a callcentre in USAnia or somewhere who deals with the "have you got a postcode?" rubbish for you.  From a warm office with a decent internet connection.


Quote
For those talking about RAC et al, there are Hectometer posts every 100m on most big roads, You can then call in and say "M25, near post 12345"

I'v always assumed that was the case, in exactly the same way I assumed that 999 operators were able to use OS grid references.  Never tested that theory...
To ride the Windcheetah, first, you must embrace the cantilever...

Re: what 3 words
« Reply #55 on: March 29, 2019, 04:23:17 pm »
If in a perfect world with great signal for data and GPS that you could send easy to the emergency services, that would be great.

This is why I have an Inreach Explorer+ device. I press the magic button, and hold it for 5 seconds, and a helicopter or other suitable rescue team comes and gets me. Global coverage.

For those talking about RAC et al, there are Hectometer posts every 100m on most big roads, You can then call in and say "M25, near post 12345" Obviously this doesn't work on the B3149 under a tree...

J
More likely a  paramedic on a chopper bike.

yorkie

  • On top of the Galibier
Re: what 3 words
« Reply #56 on: March 29, 2019, 05:57:39 pm »
I'v always assumed that was the case, in exactly the same way I assumed that 999 operators were able to use OS grid references.  Never tested that theory...

I can't speak for the (former) British Telecom emergency operators, but the former British Rail - now Network Rail - Telecoms network switchboard operators directory system could be searched by OS grid reference - either 10 or 12 digit from memory - as well as by station name, bridge number, overhead electrification gantry number, (quarter) milepost and track-side plug-point number (A box about every 100m with sockets to plug a basic phone in for track-side workers before the days of mobile phones). I'm not sure if it ever included Lat & Long, as this was pre-GPS.

The information returned by the search included a 12 digit OS grid reference for the location, postal address (where appropriate), authorised access route from public roads (for track-side locations), Electrical Control Room in electrified areas (to turn the juice off, if not already done!) and the direct phone numbers for the emergency switchboard for the relevant local police, fire and ambulance services for that exact location, as well as Coastguard and Mountain Rescue if appropriate.

From that, I would *assume* that the emergency services at least are geared up for location information by OS grid reference, even if BT don't have a clue what to do with it, but that is only an assumption and is based on what was happening on the railway 20 years ago, when I was responsible for the staff entering this information for what used to be the Eastern Region of British Rail. This information was worked out manually from OS maps and BR track diagrams, a **very** time consuming activity, although it did have the advantage that I had access to 1:50,000 and 1:25,000 OS maps of the eastern half of the UK north of London. Not that I ever borrowed them for cycle tours and Audaxes, ooh no never!! Ahem!!  ;) ;) :-D :-D
Born to ride my bike, forced to work! ;)

British Cycling Regional Track Commissaire
British Cycling Regional Circuit Commissaire

Cudzoziemiec

  • Solar powered, tea fuelled cycle-wol
Re: what 3 words
« Reply #57 on: March 29, 2019, 06:07:34 pm »
I wonder what the global spread of w3w use is? How much is in N. America, W. Europe and other places with well-developed cartographic grids, etc, and how much is like the examples they gave when launched, in barrios, favelas, slums (but not banlieues ;)) and other mapless, address-less places?
An ungovernable laughter, a joyous agitation which makes the summer stretching before you seem like an unrolling canvas on which you might draw those first rude pure strokes that are free. (Capote)

Re: what 3 words
« Reply #58 on: March 29, 2019, 06:35:05 pm »
W3W was featured on QI recently. They said that some countries have adopted it instead of trying to institute their own post-code system.
To test this out, the programme sent a post card to the British Embassy somewhere like Uzbekistan and it hadn't arrived by the time they recorded the show, although it did arrive in time for the final edit.
I can see why some countries might be persuaded to adopt it, not withstanding all the criticisms up-thread.
"No matter how slow you go, you're still lapping everybody on the couch."

Cudzoziemiec

  • Solar powered, tea fuelled cycle-wol
Re: what 3 words
« Reply #59 on: March 29, 2019, 06:42:08 pm »
I can't see it working very well as a post code system, because it identifies 3 meter squares of land (or water) rather than buildings or streets, so any one building can have several w3w identifiers. Unless it's really small.
An ungovernable laughter, a joyous agitation which makes the summer stretching before you seem like an unrolling canvas on which you might draw those first rude pure strokes that are free. (Capote)

quixoticgeek

  • Mostly Harmless
Re: what 3 words
« Reply #60 on: March 29, 2019, 11:44:40 pm »

Presumably there's an operator in a callcentre in USAnia or somewhere who deals with the "have you got a postcode?" rubbish for you.  From a warm office with a decent internet connection.

The message it sends is geotagged with lat/long of the device. I'd hope that SAR services would know how to use a lat/long...

Quote
I'v always assumed that was the case, in exactly the same way I assumed that 999 operators were able to use OS grid references.  Never tested that theory...


Interestingly, I once had an interesting discussion with a couple of pilots from NPAS. They had their air navigation charts, and were drawing on the top the London A to Z pages, as the bobbies on the beat understand the London A to Z, and not much else...

More likely a  paramedic on a chopper bike.

Very UK centric view...

J
--
Beer, bikes, and backpacking
http://b.42q.eu/

Re: what 3 words
« Reply #61 on: March 30, 2019, 08:48:12 am »
Not at all lots of countries employ paramedics on bikes in big cities. It is the most sensible approach. I think you overestimate how many accidents (outside of the mountains) are attended by helicopter.  Inreach doesn't give you priority access to helicopters. All they do is ring your local emergency services with your location and possibly no further info. They will then decide the best option based on location and what they know.

quixoticgeek

  • Mostly Harmless
Re: what 3 words
« Reply #62 on: March 30, 2019, 05:44:41 pm »
Not at all lots of countries employ paramedics on bikes in big cities. It is the most sensible approach.

Wasn't questioning the bike, was questioning the chopper bike. I've seen the bikes LAS and others use, they are impressively setup pieces of kit.

Quote
I think you overestimate how many accidents (outside of the mountains) are attended by helicopter.  Inreach doesn't give you priority access to helicopters. All they do is ring your local emergency services with your location and possibly no further info. They will then decide the best option based on location and what they know.

I must admit I did get the device primarily for hills/mountains. Hence having that mind set.

J
--
Beer, bikes, and backpacking
http://b.42q.eu/

Re: what 3 words
« Reply #63 on: March 30, 2019, 06:34:03 pm »
Not at all lots of countries employ paramedics on bikes in big cities. It is the most sensible approach.

Wasn't questioning the bike, was questioning the chopper bike. I've seen the bikes LAS and others use, they are impressively setup pieces of kit.

Quote
I think you overestimate how many accidents (outside of the mountains) are attended by helicopter.  Inreach doesn't give you priority access to helicopters. All they do is ring your local emergency services with your location and possibly no further info. They will then decide the best option based on location and what they know.

I must admit I did get the device primarily for hills/mountains. Hence having that mind set.

J

The chopper reference was a play on (another name for) your helicopter.  An Americanism if anything. ;D