Author Topic: Economics of getting rid of a car  (Read 2384 times)

Re: Economics of getting rid of a car
« Reply #50 on: November 03, 2019, 10:04:57 am »
Unfair to criticise people for this. Having a home that they like is more important. Everything
else is secondary.

Does that also apply to people whose homes they like will be underwater in the near future?

ian

  • fatuously disingenuous
    • The Suburban Survival Guide
Re: Economics of getting rid of a car
« Reply #51 on: November 03, 2019, 12:09:33 pm »
People do things because they have a car which otherwise would not be possible or practicable, eg choose to live in the middle of nowhere with no public transport for miles,
Unfair to criticise people for this. Having a home that they like is more important. Everything
else is secondary.

But the point is that it's a choice you've made (and one other people have to subsidize). We made a choice to live near a train station and public transport vs. a place in the country. Maybe we'll remake that choice at some point in the future.

It's a valid point, people expect to always be able to do what they want, when they want, and perhaps sometimes things just are impracticable. Our reliance on cars has certainly made public transport less tenable, but really sometimes I think we have to be willing to compromise and build lifestyles around what we can do and when we can do it.
!nataS pihsroW

Kim

  • Timelord
Re: Economics of getting rid of a car
« Reply #52 on: November 03, 2019, 12:21:09 pm »
People do things because they have a car which otherwise would not be possible or practicable, eg choose to live in the middle of nowhere with no public transport for miles,
Unfair to criticise people for this. Having a home that they like is more important. Everything
else is secondary.

But the point is that it's a choice you've made (and one other people have to subsidize). We made a choice to live near a train station and public transport vs. a place in the country. Maybe we'll remake that choice at some point in the future.

And many people don't get to make that choice, because driving isn't an option.
Careful, Kim. Your sarcasm's showing...

ian

  • fatuously disingenuous
    • The Suburban Survival Guide
Re: Economics of getting rid of a car
« Reply #53 on: November 03, 2019, 01:31:20 pm »
Indeed, by building a car-dependent society we've effectively disenfranchised those who can't participate. I remember some years ago, my wife was working in New Jersey and I flew over to visit here. There was a train from NYC to nearby and it looked like an easy stroll to get there (and I take a curious enjoyment from being the only pedestrian in American suburbia). Of course, her hotel was situated with no pedestrian access, but I noticed a path down an embankment, through some trees and then a neat cut-through chainlink fence around the hotel property. Evidently, that was how car-less hotel workers got to their place of work, which is sad if you think about that. It would have been a minor task to add access, but simply I suppose no one had thought about it. Those that didn't have a car had been elided, their choices curtailed.
!nataS pihsroW

bludger

  • Randonneur and bargain hunter
Re: Economics of getting rid of a car
« Reply #54 on: November 03, 2019, 01:39:38 pm »
Exactly, it's a huge marker of social shame in much of the USA to not be able to 'afford a car.' it's a genuine public health crisis imo.
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Jaded

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Re: Economics of getting rid of a car
« Reply #55 on: November 03, 2019, 01:57:08 pm »
Reminds me of the "You must be Brits!!" shouted from a veehickle at four of us walking in Beverley Hills.

The only others walking were pushing shopping trollies of possessions.
If you don't like your democracy, vote against it.

ian

  • fatuously disingenuous
    • The Suburban Survival Guide
Re: Economics of getting rid of a car
« Reply #56 on: November 03, 2019, 02:10:05 pm »
Exactly, it's a huge marker of social shame in much of the USA to not be able to 'afford a car.' it's a genuine public health crisis imo.

It's a significant issue especially in poor neighbourhoods where the big supermarket chains, having killed off all the cheaper local stores (it's a complete myth that supermarkets anywhere offer more choice at cheaper prices) have pulled out, so basically the only food options are convenience stores and fast food joints.  Things aren't quite as bad in the UK yet, but it's an endpoint of car-dependence, those who can't play are increasingly left behind.
!nataS pihsroW

Re: Economics of getting rid of a car
« Reply #57 on: November 03, 2019, 02:35:09 pm »
Unfair to criticise people for this. Having a home that they like is more important. Everything
else is secondary.

Does that also apply to people whose homes they like will be underwater in the near future?
I have no idea. ::-) Why would I know? Post the answer when you have it.

Cudzoziemiec

  • Solar powered, tea fuelled cycle-wol
Re: Economics of getting rid of a car
« Reply #58 on: November 04, 2019, 11:49:40 am »
but park it 400 yds away

Which is massively antisocial. There is almost no competition for parking spaces near my flat[1] but I have to pay £160/year for that. If I want to park it for free then sure it is only 400 yards but as soon as you get to the border of the controlled parking zone there's very little parking because there's dense housing and lots of cars: https://goo.gl/maps/f6TV1MeUS1WzULMW8

So I could save £160 a year but that would come at the expense of increased inconvenience to other people. I'm not willing to do that.

1. I think I've had to park it more than 20 yards away from the ideal spot about three times in 3 years.
It might not work for you, but for some people having to park 400 yards away or having to park in a lock-up or fenced off car park not directly adjacent would greatly reduce their use of a car they already own, simply by forcing them to walk and think about it. It would make using the car a deliberate act.
A cup of tea is the perfect bridge between real life and cake.

Re: Economics of getting rid of a car
« Reply #59 on: November 06, 2019, 11:38:19 am »
Indeed, by building a car-dependent society we've effectively disenfranchised those who can't participate. I remember some years ago, my wife was working in New Jersey and I flew over to visit here. There was a train from NYC to nearby and it looked like an easy stroll to get there (and I take a curious enjoyment from being the only pedestrian in American suburbia). Of course, her hotel was situated with no pedestrian access, but I noticed a path down an embankment, through some trees and then a neat cut-through chainlink fence around the hotel property. Evidently, that was how car-less hotel workers got to their place of work, which is sad if you think about that. It would have been a minor task to add access, but simply I suppose no one had thought about it. Those that didn't have a car had been elided, their choices curtailed.

Happens in this country too though, although quite rarely.

Cycling to the Thorne/Doncaster Travelodge is one example. There's no non-motorway[1] access road to the services and so the only access for pedestrians/cyclists is a dirt lane, over a bridge and then when the lane runs out a trek across a section of field.

1. Contrary to popular belief motorway service areas don't have to have a non-motorway access road (although most do). They just need to be accessible by two different roads (in case one gets closed). The Moto Doncaster services are off the roundabout of the M18/M180 junction so the two different motorways count as two different roads.
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Mr Larrington

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Re: Economics of getting rid of a car
« Reply #60 on: November 06, 2019, 12:12:08 pm »
There is another such at $SERVICES in Kent.  There is non-motorway access up a dual cabbageway but it's got "NO CYCLING" signs plastered all over it, and the alternative access required negotiating an overgrown footpath and, optionally, falling flat on your face in the wet grass.  There may have been a stile involved too.  Not the best location, then, for an Audax control.  Hummers' description of the entry procedure was a minor classic back at The Other Place.
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Re: Economics of getting rid of a car
« Reply #61 on: November 06, 2019, 12:30:55 pm »
I passed a motorway service area in the middle of nowhere in the Netherlands a couple of weeks back on a back lane. It had its own car park (full) and bike parking with ebike charging (empty). It does more sense that the cars belong to staff than locals looking to pay extortionate prices for underwhelming coffee.

(It was signposted for customers though, including a sign for the "Burger King Drive Thru" which you physically couldn't get to...)