Author Topic: You voted for him, you got him...  (Read 6092 times)

You voted for him, you got him...
« on: March 11, 2009, 04:57:57 pm »
London pedestrians will have to walk faster under Boris Johnson plan - Times Online

Quote
Mr Johnson hopes that the extra green time will smooth the flow of traffic and help to cope with the increase in cars expected next year when he halves the size of the congestion charge zone.

Is this the 1950s?
Never tell me the odds.

clarion

  • Tyke
Re: You voted for him, you got him...
« Reply #1 on: March 11, 2009, 04:59:53 pm »
Just like to point out that, like an awful lot of people in London, I didn't vote for the charmless bigot.
Getting there...

Re: You voted for him, you got him...
« Reply #2 on: March 11, 2009, 05:08:57 pm »
This is something I have noticed around here, you seem to get no time at all now to get across the road.
But then as we all know, the car is king ::-)

Re: You voted for him, you got him...
« Reply #3 on: March 11, 2009, 05:09:27 pm »
I have a friend who models traffic patterns for a living. He's pretty convinced that Ken did not rephase the lights prior to the congestion charge introduction and is convinced that this is just a slur that has stuck.

However, he did tell me that rephasing the lights would take forever, and this seems to be born out by that figure of five years to carry out the complete programme.

Jules

  • Has dropped his aitch!
Re: You voted for him, you got him...
« Reply #4 on: March 11, 2009, 05:12:58 pm »
I voted for that nice Mr Livingstone :thumbsup:
Audax on the other hand is almost invisible and thought to be the pastime of Hobbits ....  Fab Foodie

Sir Tifiable

Re: You voted for him, you got him...
« Reply #5 on: March 11, 2009, 05:14:54 pm »
I have a friend who models traffic patterns for a living. He's pretty convinced that Ken did not rephase the lights prior to the congestion charge introduction and is convinced that this is just a slur that has stuck.

However, he did tell me that rephasing the lights would take forever, and this seems to be born out by that figure of five years to carry out the complete programme.

Are not the 'key' lights controllable by a central computer system? I thought it was possible to make on-demand changes to the lights.

Re: You voted for him, you got him...
« Reply #6 on: March 11, 2009, 05:24:00 pm »
Boris is definitely not my favourite person of the moment.
Cancels Cross-river tram, spouts on about some idiot scheme for re-using the Crossrail tunnelling machines to extend the Tube south of the river to Camberwell instead of funding the perferctly rational and much cheaper tram. Then this.

It is a feature of our USA television dominated culture that people in the UK genuinely believe that there is an offence of "jaywalking". However on the converse side, how many drivers know - or even care- that there is a highway code rule which says give way to crossing pedestrians when turning into a side road.

ChrisO

Re: You voted for him, you got him...
« Reply #7 on: March 11, 2009, 06:56:27 pm »
Well I do think he has a point about the number of lights and the time spent at them.

For example why have a four-way intersection come to a total stop so that pedestrians can cross in any direction. Why not have pedestrians able to cross parallel to the traffic flow, and any car-drivers turning should give way to them. It's the fact that drivers don't turn across pedestrians that makes them ignore the rule mentioned by SOTR in my view.

And the frequency of lights, including pedestrian lights, is ridiculous. As a cyclist I am deeply annoyed by them just as much as motorists. Would people RLJ as much if they didn't have multiple pointless stoppages. There are stretches on my commute where there are lights of one kind or another every 150 yards or less. Why not pedestrian crossings or temporary signals. Why not allow left-turning cars and cycles to treat lights as a Stop sign and turn if it is safe to do so.

I would like to see fewer lights and more people driving/riding according to what they can see rather than what they are told.

hellymedic

  • Just do it!
Re: You voted for him, you got him...
« Reply #8 on: March 11, 2009, 07:05:06 pm »
Just like to point out that, like an awful lot of people in London, I didn't vote for the charmless bigot.
Nor did I.
Discussed this issue with my partner over lunch. Both agree he is very pedestrian unfriendly and not too good for cyclists either.

simonp

  • Omnomnomnipotent.
Re: You voted for him, you got him...
« Reply #9 on: March 11, 2009, 07:08:55 pm »
If am in my car at a particular junction near work, I am able to cross the junction in a single phase.

As a pedestrian it's 3 phases.  If I want to try to cross on red I have to have eyes in the back of my head due to vehicles coming from all directions.

Re: You voted for him, you got him...
« Reply #10 on: March 11, 2009, 07:18:40 pm »
If BoJo really wants to speed things up for everybody / anybody, why doesn't he arrange to lose the dwell time between traffic light phases at junctions?

You know - when all the lights (including those for pedestrians) are at red - so nobody moves.

At a junction where there are four or even five phases this can amount to 30 to 45 seconds of Nothing Happening, for anyone.

Multiply that by the number of controlled junctions on the average London commute, and you'd have a significant time saving for all road users.

As opposed to introducing a system which encourages traffic into bullying pedestrians to stay on the pavement.

BTW - I didn't vote for him either.

Re: You voted for him, you got him...
« Reply #11 on: March 11, 2009, 07:36:33 pm »
Just like to point out that, like an awful lot of people in London, I didn't vote for the charmless bigot.

Afraid I did - though I reckon I could still have replied perfectly honestly using the same words as you! 

Re: You voted for him, you got him...
« Reply #12 on: March 11, 2009, 08:27:43 pm »
ARRRGGHHHH!!!!  This makes me so angry.  BoJo, I think you are a useless twonk, you have no idea what makes for a pleasant city and are doing everything you can to destroy London.  Idiot.
Your Royal Charles are belong to us.

Re: You voted for him, you got him...
« Reply #13 on: March 11, 2009, 08:33:51 pm »
Just like to point out that, like an awful lot of people in London, I didn't vote for the charmless bigot.

Afraid I did - though I reckon I could still have replied perfectly honestly using the same words as you! 

That is no way to refer to Brian Paddick
[Quote/]Adrian, you're living proof that bandwidth is far too cheap.[/Quote]

Re: You voted for him, you got him...
« Reply #14 on: March 11, 2009, 08:36:17 pm »
For example why have a four-way intersection come to a total stop so that pedestrians can cross in any direction. Why not have pedestrians able to cross parallel to the traffic flow, and any car-drivers turning should give way to them. It's the fact that drivers don't turn across pedestrians that makes them ignore the rule mentioned by SOTR in my view.

............. Why not allow left-turning cars and cycles to treat lights as a Stop sign and turn if it is safe to do so.

Both of these ideas seem to work perfectly well in Toronto (and probably plenty of other cities the other side of the pond - Toronto is just the one I have experienced as both a pedestrian and a driver)

Re: You voted for him, you got him...
« Reply #15 on: March 11, 2009, 08:42:51 pm »
Just like to point out that, like an awful lot of people in London, I didn't vote for the charmless bigot.

Afraid I did - though I reckon I could still have replied perfectly honestly using the same words as you! 

That is no way to refer to Brian Paddick

Sorry - forgot about him - how could that happen

hellymedic

  • Just do it!
Re: You voted for him, you got him...
« Reply #16 on: March 11, 2009, 08:48:12 pm »
If BoJo really wants to speed things up for everybody / anybody, why doesn't he arrange to lose the dwell time between traffic light phases at junctions?

You know - when all the lights (including those for pedestrians) are at red - so nobody moves.

At a junction where there are four or even five phases this can amount to 30 to 45 seconds of Nothing Happening, for anyone.

Multiply that by the number of controlled junctions on the average London commute, and you'd have a significant time saving for all road users.

As opposed to introducing a system which encourages traffic into bullying pedestrians to stay on the pavement.

BTW - I didn't vote for him either.

I believe he said he was going to do just that in his Way to Go document.
All red phases are there to protect others from 'Amber Gamblers' and those who 'follow through' on red. I predict more crashes...

Re: You voted for him, you got him...
« Reply #17 on: March 11, 2009, 09:05:35 pm »
Are not the 'key' lights controllable by a central computer system? I thought it was possible to make on-demand changes to the lights.
According to my sister, who has worked for various highways departments, you can override many lights from the central control room for the area. She once described to me watching as a controller gave one of their staff a green wave to get to a meeting, watching him on traffic cameras & switching the lights as he approached.

Of course, they wouldn't do that when traffic was heavy. Cause far too much disruption.

But - and it's a big but - inadequately planned changes to phasing of lights could cause chaos. It's all right doing a bit of ad hoc manual overriding, but making permanent changes without carefully modelling the consequences has some of the same risks as trying to repair a watch with a hammer. Get wrong - cue gridlock.
"A woman on a bicycle has all the world before her where to choose; she can go where she will, no man hindering." The Type-Writer Girl, 1897

Manotea

  • Where there is doubt...
Re: You voted for him, you got him...
« Reply #18 on: March 11, 2009, 10:41:18 pm »
I rather despair of the mindless leftwing politicing and name calling tendency on this forum. Apart from anything else its incredibly boring.

The article suggested that by providing timing information to pedestrians it would encourage them to time their crossing more appropriately which would in turn allow the total amount of time required for redlight phases to be reduced which in turn would improve traffic flow. I've experienced this in other countries as a driver and pedestrian and it makes sense to me.

Boris was quoted expressing his frustration at being stopped at redlights for no apparent reason. Er, thats it.


Re: You voted for him, you got him...
« Reply #19 on: March 11, 2009, 10:48:23 pm »
We could usefully get rid of that completely unnecessary waiting at a red pelican crossing after the pedestrian has gone. If it were a much quicker, or instantaneous, change to green man the situation would arise much less. That would speed up both pedestrian and vehicle flow.
[Quote/]Adrian, you're living proof that bandwidth is far too cheap.[/Quote]

simonp

  • Omnomnomnipotent.
Re: You voted for him, you got him...
« Reply #20 on: March 11, 2009, 11:01:37 pm »
I rather despair of the mindless leftwing politicing and name calling tendency on this forum. Apart from anything else its incredibly boring.

Wibble

Re: You voted for him, you got him...
« Reply #21 on: March 11, 2009, 11:34:05 pm »
I would like to see fewer lights and more people driving/riding according to what they can see rather than what they are told.

Agreed.  Many pelican crossings should be replaced with zebra crossings.  When a ped I'm fed up of waiting a-g-e-s for the green man to show.  When in the car I'm fed up of spending 10 seconds watching the ped cross, and another 25 staring at an empty crossing & a red light   >:(

That said, in some areas there are so many peds that zebra crossings would cause near gridlock.  I guess this is where BoJo's idea comes in.

Jaded

  • The Codfather
  • Formerly known as Jaded
Re: You voted for him, you got him...
« Reply #22 on: March 11, 2009, 11:35:11 pm »
We could usefully get rid of that completely unnecessary waiting at a red pelican crossing after the pedestrian has gone. If it were a much quicker, or instantaneous, change to green man the situation would arise much less. That would speed up both pedestrian and vehicle flow.

Likewise we could get rid of the completely unnecessary waiting that a pedestrian has to do when they press the button at a crossing. You go up to a crossing, press the button, then watch as a procession of cars driven by people that were finishing their breakfast at home when you got there flashes past. Eventually the software says "OK - let's go to Green for Peds".
If you don't like your democracy, vote against it.

Re: You voted for him, you got him...
« Reply #23 on: March 12, 2009, 06:22:31 am »
If its that important to get somewhere on time, leave earlier.
'Sorry I am late I was held up at the pedestrian crossings' FFS :(
Edit - This appies to car and drivers, not pedestrians.

Re: You voted for him, you got him...
« Reply #24 on: March 12, 2009, 07:31:38 am »
We could usefully get rid of that completely unnecessary waiting at a red pelican crossing after the pedestrian has gone. If it were a much quicker, or instantaneous, change to green man the situation would arise much less. That would speed up both pedestrian and vehicle flow.

Likewise we could get rid of the completely unnecessary waiting that a pedestrian has to do when they press the button at a crossing. You go up to a crossing, press the button, then watch as a procession of cars driven by people that were finishing their breakfast at home when you got there flashes past. Eventually the software says "OK - let's go to Green for Peds".

Sorry, I took that as a given.

The law could be changed so that where a pavement-cyclist uses a pelican to cross and in doing so makes a cyclist stop at the light, this is punishable by death.
[Quote/]Adrian, you're living proof that bandwidth is far too cheap.[/Quote]