Author Topic: Dining Ergonomics was Re: ulnar nerve palsy affecting motor function: any experience, recovery time,  (Read 1771 times)

barakta

  • Bastard lovechild of Yomiko Readman and Johnny 5
How are your table manners?

Stabilising a knife and fork using conventional grip is very ulnar nerve dependent.

Do/did you need to hold your cutlery in a fist rather than with an extended index finger?

Just asking...

Ohgod this makes so much sense. I can't hold cutlery properly and occasionally my Dad (bought up to have SuperMannersTM) would have a massive snit about how I hold cutlery. Which was of course utterly ridiculous but there was no persuading him in the moment cos he was determined to have a snit... I used to take my plate and leave the room when he got like that cos I had already tried pointing out the fucking obvious with my hands.

hellymedic

  • Just do it!
How are your table manners?

Stabilising a knife and fork using conventional grip is very ulnar nerve dependent.

Do/did you need to hold your cutlery in a fist rather than with an extended index finger?

Just asking...

Ohgod this makes so much sense. I can't hold cutlery properly and occasionally my Dad (bought up to have SuperMannersTM) would have a massive snit about how I hold cutlery. Which was of course utterly ridiculous but there was no persuading him in the moment cos he was determined to have a snit... I used to take my plate and leave the room when he got like that cos I had already tried pointing out the fucking obvious with my hands.

IMO Anything/everything you can achieve with your hands is a bonus. Transferring food from plate to mouth without converting kitchen into a mire of spilt food is an achievement.
Proper table manners are a frippery indulged by abled who have scant understanding of the cultural, motor and mechanical skillset needed for their acquisition.

GGRRRR!

Kim

  • Timelord
The flip-side of table manners is abled people who expect you to eat complicated food without the aid of a table...
Careful, Kim. Your sarcasm's showing...

hellymedic

  • Just do it!
Also 'challenging' when:
there is little power in my right hand
Plate food is served in bowls
My wheelchair can't be pushed closer than a foot from the table.

barakta

  • Bastard lovechild of Yomiko Readman and Johnny 5
*nods* ergonomics of eating are a complete nightmare in so many scenarios.

hellymedic

  • Just do it!
*nods* ergonomics of eating are a complete nightmare in so many scenarios.

Indeed and I am almost totally competent in my unadapted kitchen where I can:
Get my feet under the breakfast bar
Use flat plates with big steep rims
Use a fork and knife for all lumpy food (including avocado cos I can't scoop with a spoon)
Use cutlery that was chosen not to cut/dig into my palms.


barakta

  • Bastard lovechild of Yomiko Readman and Johnny 5
Yeah I find it interesting visiting other people's houses because of little things like the shape of their mug handles and cutlery being difficult to use, or the reach of their taps being challenging...  Often specific disability adaptations are not needed, but we're choosing standard products to meet our needs - something the disability benefits system does not recognise at all.

hellymedic

  • Just do it!
John Lewis have some Helly-friendly cutlery in Clearance. I have made a purchase.
https://www.johnlewis.com/john-lewis-outline-cutlery-set-7-piece/p573668
Just the thing if you're running out of spoons...

Some Rich Relatives have recently bought Posh Cutlery which is truly horrid. I know they weren't thinking of me when they bought it but it does appear to have been designed by Designers who prefer style over substance/utility. One horror was the Tridendate Fork; prongs too widely-spaced and conical to be helpful...
Like this
https://www.johnlewis.com/alessi-santiago-cutlery-set-24-piece/p2603313

Sharp-cornered handles and tridentate forks - HATEFUL!

As well as temporary fist-grip, being left handed has given me a small insight into cutlery challenges.  My pet hate is asymmetric fish knives.

barakta

  • Bastard lovechild of Yomiko Readman and Johnny 5
https://www.johnlewis.com/alessi-santiago-cutlery-set-24-piece/p2603313

Sharp-cornered handles and tridentate forks - HATEFUL!

Those are HORRID. I bet their balance is all weird too.  IKEA cutlery has sharp corners and it is painful to use too.

hellymedic

  • Just do it!
As well as temporary fist-grip, being left handed has given me a small insight into cutlery challenges.  My pet hate is asymmetric fish knives.

I can't remember the last time I SAW a fish knife - always thought they were an affectation.

Had a trout in an Italian eaterie last Friday and managed to eat all the flesh whilst leaving skeleton in one piece (without feeding the floor).

hellymedic

  • Just do it!
https://www.johnlewis.com/alessi-santiago-cutlery-set-24-piece/p2603313

Sharp-cornered handles and tridentate forks - HATEFUL!

Those are HORRID. I bet their balance is all weird too.  IKEA cutlery has sharp corners and it is painful to use too.

My brother used these on my last visit. Others complemented his wife on this 'stunning' kit.

Eccentrica Gallumbits

  • Rock 'n' roll and brew, rock 'n' roll and brew...
Some people find the Neater Eater very helpful, but it's bulky, expensive and needs to be set up by someone who knows what they're doing http://www.neater.co.uk/ .
My feminist marxist dialectic brings all the boys to the yard.


hellymedic

  • Just do it!
Some people find the Neater Eater very helpful, but it's bulky, expensive and needs to be set up by someone who knows what they're doing http://www.neater.co.uk/ .

Interesting but I don't need (or want) extra layers of complication.

With an adequate table and suitable cutlery, I can fillet a trout and feed myself quite efficiently.

barakta

  • Bastard lovechild of Yomiko Readman and Johnny 5
I always try and find 'mainstream' things which work as 'assistive aids' are usually not that great for me, I find they're designed for different kinds of impairment.

The last one I bought, long handled sponge was hopeless. Kim wrote SPANG! on it to make me laugh.

rr

https://www.johnlewis.com/alessi-santiago-cutlery-set-24-piece/p2603313

Sharp-cornered handles and tridentate forks - HATEFUL!

Those are HORRID. I bet their balance is all weird too.  IKEA cutlery has sharp corners and it is painful to use too.

Those John Lewis ones are a triumph of designer over design and function.
Some Ikea cutlery is good we bought [url+http://www.ikea.com/gb/en/products/tableware/cutlery/martorp-30-piece-cutlery-set-stainless-steel-art-30167507/]this[/url], good balance and no sharp corners

hellymedic

  • Just do it!
As well as temporary fist-grip, being left handed has given me a small insight into cutlery challenges.  My pet hate is asymmetric fish knives.

Pastry forks are similarly well-nigh impossible with the left hand...

I've told Mum no fork or ordinary fork.

FifeingEejit

  • Not Small
My gran was left handed, she indoctrinated me in the art of swapping cutlery over in front of the table setter when eating anywhere.
Fish Knives are a pain, but pastry forks are not as I don't swap cutlery for eating.

As for the location of my glass, well on a set table expect to find your wine being confused with my Ribena, most obvious as I'll collapse drunk pretty quickly.

hellymedic

  • Just do it!
I am naturally right-handed but my MS has made my right had very numb and weak, such that I can only really 'fist' a knife in it.
Spoons are symmetrical so cause no trouble with the left hand.
Table forks are used with the left hand in the UK.
Pastry forks are designed for right-handed use, which is the issue.

As well as temporary fist-grip, being left handed has given me a small insight into cutlery challenges.  My pet hate is asymmetric fish knives.

Hmm, I'm left handed but only use knife in left hand for cutting and buttering bread.  So fish knife would be in right hand. Spoon is always left. Eating soup with a right hander to my left can be awkward.

hellymedic

  • Just do it!
As well as temporary fist-grip, being left handed has given me a small insight into cutlery challenges.  My pet hate is asymmetric fish knives.

Hmm, I'm left handed but only use knife in left hand for cutting and buttering bread.  So fish knife would be in right hand. Spoon is always left. Eating soup with a right hander to my left can be awkward.

I suppose my left-handed siblings have always had 'conventional' cutlery use. I can't recall any problems since we've grown up. I'm the oldest of six, at least three of whom are left-handed. (Right-handed, ambidextrous sister has some very left-handed habits.) We've had many family meals.

Cudzoziemiec

  • Solar powered, tea fuelled cycle-wol
Eating with just hands and little bits of bread has a lot to be said for it. Half the world has this sorted out anyway!
A cup of tea is the perfect bridge between real life and cake.