Author Topic: A random thread for sport things that don't really warrant a thread of their own  (Read 44381 times)

Wowbagger

  • Dez's butler
    • Musings of a Gentleman Cyclist
Flipping through the channels, as you do, in our hotel room in San Sebastián, I have stumbled upon A Thing called Real Madrid TV. Barcelona are the opponents.  But RMTV seems not to have permission to cover the match. The screen is divided into 4. Top left shows players warming up on the touch line, top right shows the outside of the stadium, bottom left shows 3 commentators and bottom right shows a besuited man whom I assume to be the manager. There is a commentary, which is in Spanish.

Was there ever a more pointless exercise?
Oh, Bach without any doubt. Bach every time for me.

Cudzoziemiec

  • Solar powered, tea fuelled cycle-wol
So you're saying Real Madrid TV doesn't show Real Madrid matches? Bizarre. Or actually not bizarre, presumably they'll show it later but won't show it live in order to preserve broadcasting income. I've just found it online and it seems to be showing some second-team match. Actually it's RM Castilla v Valladolid. Who?
sideways bounding monkey lounging under fruit tree

Wowbagger

  • Dez's butler
    • Musings of a Gentleman Cyclist
When Jan and I were in a restaurant last night a live match was being broadcast on La Liga TV, between Hue and Sev. It was interesting because Sev had a goal disallowed by VAR in the 90th minute but Hue scored the winner in the 96th minute. The Rma Bar match was then shown, but we left to go back to our hotel during the first half.
Oh, Bach without any doubt. Bach every time for me.

I am so glad I watch the majority of the football I view live in the Staffordshire County Senior or Midland Leagues; places which will never been infested with the joke that is VAR.

Why a joke? Well, if that was a penalty in the PSG V Manchester United match, then I know nothing about football despite watching live over 2 000 matches in my time. Frankly, if a referee can get the call so wrong after watching it for two minutes solid, then the system does not work and the referee needs to be sacked. The bloke had his back to the ball and his arm was by his side and not moving towards the ball. How on Earth can that be a spot kick?

Sigh, once again Manchester United get the result they want deep into additional time. I mean, anyone would think that someone somewhere wanted them to win.  :-\

If VAR is going to be used then it should be used only for decisions like: "was the ball over the line" and "was the player off side." You may also want to look players being put on report as they do in Rugby so incidences missed by the Ref can be reviewed after the game.

Cats to the left of me, cats to the right of me, cats sitting on my keyboard making far more sense than I do.

VAR makes sense if the referee actually applies the laws of the game. It's a handball, if, in the opinion of the referee, a player intentionally handles the ball. So many VAR penalties are given where the ball is hit at a players arm (and the arm is in a perfectly normal position by their side). It seems that the refs see the slow motion, and think that a player can move their arm out of the way, when if all they were able to see was the full speed version, there would be no question it was deliberate.

The handball law is due to change (for everyone) next season and UEFA/FIFA like to try things out in the upcoming season in the prestigious tournaments (albeit unofficially).

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/47429316

The fundamental change is this one:-

Quote
Another change to the laws of the game means that if the player's arms extend beyond a "natural silhouette", handball will be given, even if it is perceived as accidental.

Under those rules it would have been a penalty. The ref would have decided that Kimpembe's arm position was outside the "natural silhouette" (see pic below) and so, even though it was not intentional, it would have been given. Turning his back has nothing to do with it in this case, nor the amount of time he had to react.

Under the current rules it's no where near as clear cut. It definitely hit the players arm, and the contact was definitely in the penalty area.

Currently the only get out is whether it was unintentional (or, more correctly[1], could Kimpembe have got his arm out of the way in time) but that only applies where the ball is struck from a yard or two away and the player has no chance of getting their arm out of the way. This was just a bit further than that. If the ball hits your arm and you've had 10 seconds to get your arm out of the way then you're deemed to have deliberately left it there. Obviously this is somewhere in between the two extremes. Even if Kimpembe had been looking he wouldn't have had much time to get his arm out of the way of Dalot's shot, but if he had he might have been able to and the ball might have sailed over for a goal kick.

Given there's no unanimous agreement amongst referees it shows that the laws are still open to too much interpretation, however IFAB are making changes (as noted above) to slowly try and solve this.

Here are the pics that show Kimpembe's arm is not in a standard position, and the position relative to the penalty area:-



1. The "deliberate act" the law requires can be interpreted as the deliberate decision not to move the hands/arms out of the way. You don't have to have movement of the hand/arms towards the ball for it to be handball.
"Yes please" said Squirrel "biscuits are our favourite things."

Cudzoziemiec

  • Solar powered, tea fuelled cycle-wol
The handball law is due to change
I glanced at the first few words and thought of a different sport.  :facepalm:
sideways bounding monkey lounging under fruit tree

The handball law is due to change (for everyone) next season and UEFA/FIFA like to try things out in the upcoming season in the prestigious tournaments (albeit unofficially).

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/47429316


Yes. I've been watching some Italian Serie A and Dutch Eridvisie games lately and the new law does appear to be being trialled. Lots of penalties being awarded for very little. I guess the result will be that a player unable to get a shot at the goal will just blast the ball at the nearest opponent in the hope of getting a penalty.
“There is no point in using the word 'impossible' to describe something that has clearly happened.”
― Douglas Adams


Yes. I've been watching some Italian Serie A and Dutch Eridvisie games lately and the new law does appear to be being trialled. Lots of penalties being awarded for very little. I guess the result will be that a player unable to get a shot at the goal will just blast the ball at the nearest opponent in the hope of getting a penalty.

Somewhat like field hockey where if the ball hits the foot then its a penalty corner. Its a stupid rule as forwards simply aim for the foot in order to get an advantage.

Thanks Greenbank (and indeed everyone else) for their replies. Here is the rub, I would argue that his arm is in a natural position, hence there is no way I could give a penalty for this. I am not sure where he could have placed.   The change is simply a joke which will cause yet more problems for Referees. I can see even more leaving lower leagues/kids games as its just not worth the hassle of upset players/shouty parents!

FIFA should stay doing what they do best... selling the World Cup to unsuitable nations for financial incentives... and let the people who actually know something about football set the rules etc.
Cats to the left of me, cats to the right of me, cats sitting on my keyboard making far more sense than I do.

Mr Larrington

  • A bit ov a lyv wyr by slof standirds
  • Custard Wallah
    • Mr Larrington's Automatic Diary
Does this mean that Half Man Half Biscuit will have to changed the entry for "H" in "The Referee's Alphabet"?

Quote from: nb10
The H is for handball, which has to be intentional and very rarely is.  If only people would study the rules more.
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Satisfying the Bloodlust of the Masses in Peacetime

Here is the rub, I would argue that his arm is in a natural position, hence there is no way I could give a penalty for this. I am not sure where he could have placed.   The change is simply a joke which will cause yet more problems for Referees. I can see even more leaving lower leagues/kids games as its just not worth the hassle of upset players/shouty parents!

I agree - try jumping and keeping your hands exactly at your side.
I can't believe I'm saying this, but Alberto Moreno was ahead of his time. If this is the rule going forwards, defenders trying to tackle someone whilst clasping their hands together behind their back will become the norm!

I suspect that "common sense" will apply further down the pyramid, but that won't stop the shouty parents from demanding handball every single time it goes anywhere near someone's arm.

Cudzoziemiec

  • Solar powered, tea fuelled cycle-wol
I'm now wondering what happens if you commit a football in handball?  :D
sideways bounding monkey lounging under fruit tree

Wowbagger

  • Dez's butler
    • Musings of a Gentleman Cyclist
I'm sure everyone on YACF will be delighted to join me in congratulating the England chess team, who have just won the silver medals at the World Team Championship. As WGM Jovanka Houska* said, with possibly a trace of exaggeration "You have made the entire country very proud!"

The team consisted of Michael Adams, a Grand Old Man of 47 years, and three rather younger players: Luke McShane, Gawain Jones and David Howell. It was my privilege to play both McShane and Howell during my ... chequered career. I managed a draw with McShane and didn't do quite so well against Howell. Their combined ages at the time I played them was 16.

Howell was 7 when I lost to him. Judging by the way he rushed off to tell his mum, I think I was the strongest player he had ever beaten up to that point. However, a year or so later he broke a world record by becoming the youngest player ever to beat a Real Live Grandmaster when he beat John Nunn. Nunn was, at one time, in the world Top 10, so I was in good company. It was my privilege to have been one of the controllers in that tournament.

*I recalled after typing the above that I played Jovanka Houska twice. She must have been in her early teens and I knew she was very good. I was surprised how badly she played in the first encounter, which I won. She took me apart in the second, though, which I think was a few months later.
Oh, Bach without any doubt. Bach every time for me.

citoyen

  • Cat 6 Racer
I'm now wondering what happens if you commit a football in handball?  :D

Possession is turned over to the other side.

Handball is the exact flip of football in that only the goalkeeper is allowed to kick the ball.

</spoiling the gag with a serious answer>

The first 11 years of his career, he won 14 majors.
The second 11 years of his career he won 0 majors.

Until now. Amazing comeback by Tiger Woods ....
Those wonderful norks are never far from my thoughts, oh yeah!

Straight out of "The Hotspur", isn't it?  Wonderful!

Straight out of "The Hotspur", isn't it?  Wonderful!

I had to Google "The Hotspur"  :P
Those wonderful norks are never far from my thoughts, oh yeah!

I can take it!

mcshroom

  • Mushroom
Eliud Kipchoge won today's London Marathon with an average speed of around 20.6 km/h. That's faster than I usually average when cycling :o
Climbs like a sprinter, sprints like a climber!

Steph

  • Fast. Fast and bulbous. But fluffy.
The campaign of hatred against trans women led by Davies (retweeting Nick Griffin!), Rasdcliffe and Navratilova,  wins another casualty in Casters Semenya. Note how the word "cheat" has been used. "Cheats" are people like FloJo, the entire current Russian and old East German teams, and so on.

I trust that a follow-on from this ruling to penalise non-cheats for perceived genetic advantages will now ban such factors as excess height above average for swimmers and long-distance runners (Yes, YOU, Davies and Radcliffe) or perhaps reflex times?

Navratilova, who came out with all the bullshit about trans people, is now apparently upset that Semenya has been effectively banned. WTF did you expect, you bigot? She is, naturally, still campaigning on hatred of trans people.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/athletics/48102479

Hint to the open-minded, as opposed to those who think that fair discussion consists of chanting "PENIS!" in TV studios: trans people* have been allowed to compete in the Olympics for fifteen years. Bu the logic Sharron Davies and other haters apply, that should mean that the women's events have been dominated by trans women; records smashed, cisgender women out-competed, and so on. In fact, the number of trans women who are or have been Olympic champions actually matches the number of trans women who have competed in the Olympic women's events: none. Zilch. Nada.

*It is ALWAYS about trans women. Trans men don't appear to exist.

Mae angen arnaf i byw, a fe fydda'i

Steph

  • Fast. Fast and bulbous. But fluffy.
Here is Davies on her 'logic', even doing the "I'm not racist, some of my best friends..." schtick.

https://twitter.com/sharrond62/status/1123501449160294405
Mae angen arnaf i byw, a fe fydda'i

Even CAS have basically said Well, it's complicated. 2-1, acknowledging discrimination against Semenya, but arguing that discrimination is necessary to level the playing field.
Apologies for ststing something you already know, but the problem with "sex testing" for who should be allowed to compete in women's sport has been around since the middle of last century. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sex_verification_in_sports

I think sports governing bodies are in a no-win scenario - as you point out there are vocal commentators who want rigorous testing to ensure that women in sports fit their personal definition of a woman.


citoyen

  • Cat 6 Racer
The campaign of hatred against trans women ... wins another casualty in Casters Semenya.

Caster Semenya is not a "trans woman"

This is a really interesting (and long) analysis of the case. Tucker is open about being a witness for Caster Semenya, so his perspective is well known, but still worth reading.
https://sportsscientists.com/2019/05/on-dsds-the-theory-of-testosterone-performance-the-cas-ruling-on-caster-semenya/


*It is ALWAYS about trans women. Trans men don't appear to exist.

https://www.cyclingweekly.com/news/latest-news/rachel-mckinnon-becomes-first-transgender-woman-win-track-world-title-397473
Exactly.  Rachel McKinnon is a trans woman.
It's always about trans women because a cis woman has a disadvantage compared to a cis man, so if a trans man wants to compete against cis men, theoretically he would be at a disadvantage.