Author Topic: Ketogenic diet - fad or phenom?  (Read 97542 times)

ElyDave

  • Royal and Ancient Polar Bear Society member 263583
Re: Ketogenic diet - fad or phenom?
« Reply #750 on: June 22, 2017, 10:19:59 am »

Plus  - no tigers in the Fens, unless you count Littleport

But plenty of Fen Tigers;D

Yep, those.

Also look up Littleport Riots
“Procrastination is the thief of time, collar him.” –Charles Dickens

JennyB

  • Old enough to know better
Re: Ketogenic diet - fad or phenom?
« Reply #751 on: June 22, 2017, 11:01:08 am »

Plus  - no tigers in the Fens, unless you count Littleport

But plenty of Fen Tigers;D

Yep, those.

Also look up Littleport Riots

I'm  not seeing the Tiger connection - unless perhaps Tasmanian tigers?
Jennifer - walker of hills



ElyDave

  • Royal and Ancient Polar Bear Society member 263583
Re: Ketogenic diet - fad or phenom?
« Reply #752 on: June 22, 2017, 04:08:09 pm »
The Littleport rioters were also known as Fen Tigers.

The local rugby team also uses that name
“Procrastination is the thief of time, collar him.” –Charles Dickens

Re: Ketogenic diet - fad or phenom?
« Reply #753 on: July 05, 2017, 04:58:08 pm »
I see the Angry Chef is not a fan of the Keto diet.

fboab

  • It's a fecking serious business, riding a bike
Re: Ketogenic diet - fad or phenom?
« Reply #754 on: July 05, 2017, 05:07:59 pm »
He's also a really bad writer.

Something's going to kill us. Pfft.

As Bill Hicks said (before the cancer got him) non-smokers die too.

At least I get to eat bacon.
TSS is not Total Sex Score, Chris!

Re: Ketogenic diet - fad or phenom?
« Reply #755 on: July 05, 2017, 10:25:00 pm »
At least I get to eat bacon.

Sausage for me this morning prior to exam, 3 big links. But ruined it by having them with small baguette with brown sauce (no other spread).  Washed down with black coffee.  Hard life watching others sweat over an exam!

Manotea

  • Where there is doubt...
Re: Ketogenic diet - fad or phenom?
« Reply #756 on: July 12, 2017, 01:35:06 am »
In the KetoLab...

I was doing pretty well last year, running Keto pretty much throughout apart from the odd weekend lapse. Even started cycling again and marvelled at the "I'm home from a 200km and I suppose I ought to eat something even though I'm not actually hungry" weirdness, and in the process dropped n stone, where n is not necessarily 1 or 2 or even 3.

All this fell apart after Jan for various weather/work/ill health reasons. I was finally forced to get my act back together in April/May to achieve some basic fitness for a 1400km jaunt across Europe, which I just about did, at least to the point of not embarassing myself too much, however I hadn't got my diet (as in what I eat rather than how much) sorted and was back to burning carbs. The contrast was amazing... having got rather used to not worrying about what I ate whilst cycling I now had to actively manage nutition and energy levels. Missing breakfast was a real problem and I ate lots of bread, bags of apricots, and other heavy duty carb based food.

After this I had a month to prepare for another european venture... not long enough to do any serious training but long enough to sort my diet out, which I did and by the appointed day I was squarely back in the ketozone. What a difference... I was now running on cheese (Buffalo Mozzarella FTW), salami, nuts, olives, sardines in olive oil, etc. and was fairly bullet proof bonkwise. In fact as the week went on I found myself eating less whilst energy levels stayed high. I simply wasn't hungry and it really was a case of thinking , 'I really ought to eat something whether I'm hungry or not".

It's totally weird to be heading into a deserted mountainous area at night with nothing more than a small bag of almonds in your saddlebag having had zip to eat all day... I really only bought the almonds because thunderstorms were forecast and it seemed a good idea to have something to nibble for morale purposes if I had to hole up somewhere.

It has to be said that following a keto diet in Italy  - home of pizza, pasta, panini and gelato - borders on sacrilege. On the other hand, the Italian keto foods available - cheese, salami, ham, olives, seafood. - are equally delicious and more to the point, don't screw me up.

Re: Ketogenic diet - fad or phenom?
« Reply #757 on: July 12, 2017, 09:56:00 pm »
I am not in the league of people here but my last 350km ride was as purely kept as you can get.

half a camembert for breakfast.  No lunch leave house at 14:00.  Ride 120km and eat 3 slices of cheese.

At about 190km stop for a break of half a roast chicken from coop.

About 220km (midnight) getting dozy so coffee and a Wispa Gold (I like them)

sleep for 3 hours.

blueberries and double cream from another Co-op then a full englishh at about 300km 

Never really felt hungry but felt I should eat. 

RichForrest

  • T'is I, Silverback.
Re: Ketogenic diet - fad or phenom?
« Reply #758 on: August 09, 2017, 11:43:28 am »
Trying this myself, only a couple of weeks in but have lost a stone and feel great so far.
As others have said, it does feel odd not having that hungry feeling and being able to go 16hrs without food.
As expected the 1st few days you are running on empty, fuzzy head and hollow legs when riding to work and back.
Last week was better managing the week befores mileage in 3 days while also trying fasted ride for the 1st time.
This week so far the legs feel great, will see how it goes.

Blodwyn Pig

  • what a nice chap
Re: Ketogenic diet - fad or phenom?
« Reply #759 on: August 09, 2017, 11:50:22 am »
trying to get back on to this, I've let slip for about 8 months, due to work and little cycling, and swmbo insisting that 'fat is bad for you'. Any way regarding carb intake, what would the panel think is an ok max , per day, ie 1 slice of toast, and/or 1 pack crisps, and /or 2 small potatoes, and/or small portion of rice/couscous, not all obviously. :facepalm:

simonp

  • Omnomnomnipotent.
Re: Ketogenic diet - fad or phenom?
« Reply #760 on: August 09, 2017, 11:59:08 am »
Those sound like the sort of things a low carber would avoid, to me. You get some carbs from things like green leafy veg, and if you want to be properly keto you'd need to cut that lot out entirely.


Re: Ketogenic diet - fad or phenom?
« Reply #761 on: August 09, 2017, 01:39:36 pm »
Simon has it. Low Carb (to most) means No Grains, No Sugar, No Starches.

From my N=1 experiences, 2 potatoes would massively spike my blood sugar, as would even a small amount of bread. Blood sugar spikes and the consequential insulin response are everything that low carbers are trying to avoid.

Manotea

  • Where there is doubt...
Re: Ketogenic diet - fad or phenom?
« Reply #762 on: August 09, 2017, 01:58:15 pm »
After several months on the straight n narrow I've been backsliding this last week, ransacking the kitchen like a druggie looking for a fix.

Nothing to do with 'body rebelling' and 'cravings' nonsense. Those are just lame excuses; its poor diet management, plain and simple.

The question is, do I hate myself enough to do something about it.

Just say no. TINA.

simonp

  • Omnomnomnipotent.
Re: Ketogenic diet - fad or phenom?
« Reply #763 on: August 09, 2017, 02:45:29 pm »
Just call it carb backloading.

Blodwyn Pig

  • what a nice chap
Re: Ketogenic diet - fad or phenom?
« Reply #764 on: August 09, 2017, 09:39:00 pm »
Haha! just had a random thought....about.....

'jack Spratt would eat no fat, and his wife would eat no lean'

I have always assumed that 'Jack' was a skinny long nosed chappy and 'his wife'was a sweaty obese individual.


But if one applies the keto diet into the equation , the exact opposite could indeed be the case....hmmmmm   ::-)

(sometimes I do wish my brain had an OFF button).

RichForrest

  • T'is I, Silverback.
Re: Ketogenic diet - fad or phenom?
« Reply #765 on: August 19, 2017, 11:57:35 am »
4 weeks in and down another 0.5st, currently sat at just above 15st (96.2kg) going the right way  :)
Legs feel ok until I come to a hill then I slow right down, may be just that I've been riding the recumbent for the 1st time since May as been riding SS and Fixed since the middle of June.
Question for the the long distance riders (yes I may try and get back into it!).
On long rides do you just fuel with fats or use small amounts of carbs? Have read that some trickle glycogen to the muscles by eating smarties every 20 minutes or so.
Don't suppose it really matters at audax speeds.

Re: Ketogenic diet - fad or phenom?
« Reply #766 on: August 20, 2017, 08:33:02 pm »
4 weeks in and down another 0.5st, currently sat at just above 15st (96.2kg) going the right way  :)
Legs feel ok until I come to a hill then I slow right down, may be just that I've been riding the recumbent for the 1st time since May as been riding SS and Fixed since the middle of June.
Question for the the long distance riders (yes I may try and get back into it!).
On long rides do you just fuel with fats or use small amounts of carbs? Have read that some trickle glycogen to the muscles by eating smarties every 20 minutes or so.
Don't suppose it really matters at audax speeds.

Tim Noakes was quoting 1.5g/min on twitter the other day - about 240 watts. In an article on Nibali, Michele Ferrari quoted Volek and Phinney(sp?) at 2g/min and 300 watts on fat. Is that sufficient.

I think one of the aims is to become better at using fat at low to moderate exertion and so to spare stored carb for higher intensity work only. I think that takes some time to adapt.

Re: Ketogenic diet - fad or phenom?
« Reply #767 on: August 21, 2017, 06:18:04 am »
I don't use twitter but 1.5g/min is 90g per hour which I thought was what non fat adapted people were taking in per hour anyway?

Re: Ketogenic diet - fad or phenom?
« Reply #768 on: August 21, 2017, 07:47:06 am »
I don't use twitter but 1.5g/min is 90g per hour which I thought was what non fat adapted people were taking in per hour anyway?

Not sure Chris. It's 810 kCals/hr, so non trivial on fat only I think. Noakes suggested sufficient for a 2 hr 40 min marathon. I think most people are burning quite a lot of carb at that sort of intensity or at 240 watts on a bike?


RichForrest

  • T'is I, Silverback.
Re: Ketogenic diet - fad or phenom?
« Reply #769 on: October 22, 2017, 12:00:23 pm »
There's a podcast on 2 keto dudes with a cyclist from the UK (Ian Robathan) on there, if you have an hr to listen to it.
http://www.2ketodudes.com/show.aspx?episode=86

Manotea

  • Where there is doubt...
Re: Ketogenic diet - fad or phenom?
« Reply #770 on: January 28, 2018, 05:48:21 pm »
Having undone most of the good work of last year, I'm back on the straight n narrow.

Day 10. Got the carbs out of my system by now but still feeling not up to snuff. I blame that more on lack of riding than ketoflu.

Did about 80km yesterday riding hardish but feeling fairly flat today with ~60km mostly at carbobonk speeds.

I get the impression you need to keep consistently active to keep the ketone generator running. Call that, 'positive reinforcement'...

Time will tell

ElyDave

  • Royal and Ancient Polar Bear Society member 263583
Re: Ketogenic diet - fad or phenom?
« Reply #771 on: January 29, 2018, 10:27:40 am »
trying to get back on to this, I've let slip for about 8 months, due to work and little cycling, and swmbo insisting that 'fat is bad for you'. Any way regarding carb intake, what would the panel think is an ok max , per day, ie 1 slice of toast, and/or 1 pack crisps, and /or 2 small potatoes, and/or small portion of rice/couscous, not all obviously. :facepalm:

Phinney and Volek give a guideline of 50g/day to stay in ketosis, but note that it may vary by individual.

I don't use twitter but 1.5g/min is 90g per hour which I thought was what non fat adapted people were taking in per hour anyway?

That does seem a lot, I'm typically 15-25g/h, stopping every 25km or so to check blood sugar and eating accordingly.  This is with my insulin pump turned down to 20% or normal basal rate. I've not tried turning it lower.

An hour on the turbo typically takes 10g carbs to avoid a crash, with the BG moving from maybe 7==>4.  The strategy is to turn down the pump 4 hours ahead and allow BG to drift up slightly from the target 5-6.
“Procrastination is the thief of time, collar him.” –Charles Dickens

Re: Ketogenic diet - fad or phenom?
« Reply #772 on: January 29, 2018, 11:06:43 am »
I get the impression you need to keep consistently active to keep the ketone generator running. Call that, 'positive reinforcement'...

Fasting works too. Low/Zero carb and fasting work well together. I can kick about the house doing nowt and hit 4mmol ketones, no trouble. It's what ketones are for - faminous energy.

ElyDave

  • Royal and Ancient Polar Bear Society member 263583
Re: Ketogenic diet - fad or phenom?
« Reply #773 on: January 29, 2018, 11:27:38 am »
That's pretty good, I'm typically 1-2mmol/l, just about there.
“Procrastination is the thief of time, collar him.” –Charles Dickens

Auntie Helen

  • 6 Wheels in Germany
Re: Ketogenic diet - fad or phenom?
« Reply #774 on: January 29, 2018, 02:18:19 pm »
Having undone most of the good work of last year, I'm back on the straight n narrow.

Day 10. Got the carbs out of my system by now but still feeling not up to snuff. I blame that more on lack of riding than ketoflu.

Did about 80km yesterday riding hardish but feeling fairly flat today with ~60km mostly at carbobonk speeds.

I get the impression you need to keep consistently active to keep the ketone generator running. Call that, 'positive reinforcement'...

Time will tell
Manotea wrote me a long PM last year before I started my Keto and it was really encouraging and helpful.

I did Keto last year until March when I went on holiday with my Mum and it worried her what I was eating. To calm her fears I ate more normal food... and fell out of the habit.

Klaus my partner and I started proper Keto on 1 January. We are doing it together which makes it much easier - we plan to do it absolutely properly until the end of June (i.e. give it 6 months) and see how we feel afterwards. He only needs to lose 8kg and has already lost 2, I need to lose 30! (but have lost 6).

We're eating some really nice meals and enjoying breakfasting together. I am also doing the 18:6 fasting on Tuesdays and Thursdays and I find that really easy so far as well. Klaus needs food at 10:30 after breakfast at 6:00, so he has a packed lunch from me of nuts, cheese, olives, mini salami and other goodies that he snacks on during the day.

What has been interesting has been to see the different ways our bodies react. I am mostly not hungry, he is still hungry. I went into Ketosis quickly (according to the Ketostix), he took longer. He is apparently completely out of Ketosis (according to Ketostix) and mine is reducing, but as we are eating the same I think this is that we have already stopped secreting ketones in pee. Which is annoying, as we wanted to use the Ketostix to try to find our optimum carbs.

I am eating about 30g net carbs per day, Klaus 40-50.

I forgot how wonderful it is to not always be hungry, but am struggling again with the very poor choice of desserts (Mascarpone mousse or greek yoghurt for us). I have tried two Keto dessert recipes over the past 2 evenings and they were both no good. It's a bit disappointing!
My blog on cycling in Germany and eating German cake – http://www.auntiehelen.co.uk