Author Topic: Tubeless for Dummies  (Read 96700 times)

Phil W

Re: Tubeless for Dummies
« Reply #25 on: January 14, 2015, 07:56:24 pm »
My hutchinson rear tubeless ran for 6000 miles, my front is still going at 8000 miles. I am running 28s though.  One slow puncture on rear after I let sealant dry out. When I say slow I mean that the pressure dropped low enough that I needed to pump it up every third day till I fixed at weekend.

Re: Tubeless for Dummies
« Reply #26 on: January 14, 2015, 08:47:18 pm »
The hutchinson ones are nearly £50 each though (from what bikey-mikey told me)  ?

Re: Tubeless for Dummies
« Reply #27 on: January 14, 2015, 08:56:47 pm »
The hutchinson ones are nearly £50 each though (from what bikey-mikey told me)  ?

50 euro at Bike24, so a premium over the Schwalbe One
We are making a New World (Paul Nash, 1918)

Re: Tubeless for Dummies
« Reply #28 on: January 14, 2015, 09:07:32 pm »
I find Acycles do good prices http://www.acycles.co.uk/hutchinson-intensive-2-road-tubeless-tyre-700x25-black-9229.html

I switched to tubeless three years ago and have had only one puncture, the tyre was cut across the full width of the tread by glass and even then it deflated slow enough to stop safely.

Phil W

Re: Tubeless for Dummies
« Reply #29 on: January 14, 2015, 10:56:25 pm »
Yep I get mine from Acycles and they've offered me free postage twice which I've taken advantage of. I've got Schwalbe One tubeless waiting for when I replace tyres come Spring time or so.

Re: Tubeless for Dummies
« Reply #30 on: January 15, 2015, 07:27:04 am »
How often do those running tubeless top up (I assume they don't drain the existing) sealant?
We are making a New World (Paul Nash, 1918)

Phil W

Re: Tubeless for Dummies
« Reply #31 on: January 15, 2015, 10:25:32 pm »
Every 3 months or so to top up, once past my initial period of doing nothing at all.

Cycling Daddy

  • "We shall have an adventure by and by," said Don Q
Re: Tubeless for Dummies
« Reply #32 on: January 16, 2015, 07:01:04 am »
I think Steve was very clear he wanted tubeless form the outset. 

I am half way through swapping to tubeless since my bike came with Arch Ex Stans rims.  There seem to be some clear benefits in terms of puncture resistance.  However it is much harder getting tyres on and off these rims (even using Var tyre levers).  This seems to be because it is trickier to get the tyre to sit in the valley. It is a job that needs time and patience.

You can carry a tube for repairs but there are also repair kits where you do not demount the tyre but stuff and insert a rubber bung into the hole : never used in anger but supposed to work.  That would cope with anything other than a major gash/slash. 
+ 1 for Schwalbe One  +1 for initial inflate with CO2 but a strong blast with a track pump works on mine as well. 

Les
Too much sanity may be madness. And maddest of all, to see life as it is and not as it should be.”
― Miguel de Cervantes Saavedra, Don Quixote

Re: Tubeless for Dummies
« Reply #33 on: January 16, 2015, 07:22:00 am »

This seems to be because it is trickier to get the tyre to sit in the valley. It is a job that needs time and patience.


I think this is more to do with the internal rim profile needing to be shallow to help get the bead to seat more easily initially - hence the need for 2 or 3 layers of tape on non-tubeless ready rims when converting them.
We are making a New World (Paul Nash, 1918)

Phil W

Re: Tubeless for Dummies
« Reply #34 on: January 16, 2015, 06:26:29 pm »
The rubber bungs work, mind only had to use once snce 2006.

Cycling Daddy

  • "We shall have an adventure by and by," said Don Q
Re: Tubeless for Dummies
« Reply #35 on: January 16, 2015, 06:55:55 pm »
The rubber bungs work, mind only had to use once snce 2006.
Might be worth checking Steve has some?  Much quicker than a tyre off and on.  1 use in 8 years that is impressive
Too much sanity may be madness. And maddest of all, to see life as it is and not as it should be.”
― Miguel de Cervantes Saavedra, Don Quixote

Re: Tubeless for Dummies
« Reply #36 on: January 16, 2015, 10:39:46 pm »
It will be interesting to hear more about today's slashed tyre.  Repaired or replaced?  How caused?

Bryn

Cycling Daddy

  • "We shall have an adventure by and by," said Don Q
Re: Tubeless for Dummies
« Reply #37 on: January 17, 2015, 06:10:23 am »
My understanding is that tubeless work better with punctures...up to  point but if you slash the tyre (I have heard an example of going over a bottle end) they will fail just like a normal clincher would.  Having the spare tyre paid dividends maybe I should think about that.
Les
Too much sanity may be madness. And maddest of all, to see life as it is and not as it should be.”
― Miguel de Cervantes Saavedra, Don Quixote

Re: Tubeless for Dummies
« Reply #38 on: January 18, 2015, 12:59:48 pm »
A question for those who "converted" standard rims to tubeless. What, if anything did you use to seal the valve to the rim tape with? I've just taped up a Mavic Askium One, 2 layers of packing tape over the original Mavic vinyl tape. I made a small cross cut through the tape to install the valve, and used CO2 to get the bead seated - a track pump wouldn't do the initial expansion quick enough.  Seated the bead, deflated the tyre, added sealant, re inflated (with track pump) only to have a leak around the valve stem as evidenced by bubbles from the soapy water Id used to aid installation and bead seating. I've used pliers to tighten the valve stem nut, added extra sealant and "bounced" the tyre to splash it about around the valve area, and seem to have slowed the loss of air (it dropped from 6 to 2 bar overnight before I added extra sealant this morning). It may just be a case of letting the valve seat bed in to the tape until all flexibility has gone, but something to give an initial seal would help - and I need to be able to remove the valve roadside to use a spare tube in emergencies, so an overnight valve stem nut isn't desirable - I was thinking maybe Vaseline, or a non setting mastic? 


We are making a New World (Paul Nash, 1918)

Cycling Daddy

  • "We shall have an adventure by and by," said Don Q
Re: Tubeless for Dummies
« Reply #39 on: January 18, 2015, 07:06:28 pm »
A question for those who "converted" standard rims to tubeless. What, if anything did you use to seal the valve to the rim tape with? I've just taped up a Mavic Askium One, 2 layers of packing tape over the original Mavic vinyl tape. I made a small cross cut through the tape to install the valve, and used CO2 to get the bead seated - a track pump wouldn't do the initial expansion quick enough.  Seated the bead, deflated the tyre, added sealant, re inflated (with track pump) only to have a leak around the valve stem as evidenced by bubbles from the soapy water Id used to aid installation and bead seating. I've used pliers to tighten the valve stem nut, added extra sealant and "bounced" the tyre to splash it about around the valve area, and seem to have slowed the loss of air (it dropped from 6 to 2 bar overnight before I added extra sealant this morning). It may just be a case of letting the valve seat bed in to the tape until all flexibility has gone, but something to give an initial seal would help - and I need to be able to remove the valve roadside to use a spare tube in emergencies, so an overnight valve stem nut isn't desirable - I was thinking maybe Vaseline, or a non setting mastic?
This happened to me with tubeless rims.  I did much as you.  It is important not t pull the valve too hard they can pull through apparently.  It can be the seating of the valve onto the rim tape but it can be a leak through the tape elsewhere (apparently).  what tape were you using?  What pressure are you pumping to?

As a consolation after a day or so my 'leak' settled and now the rear wheel has held air effectively for a couple of months with no more topping up than might in any case be expected. 
Too much sanity may be madness. And maddest of all, to see life as it is and not as it should be.”
― Miguel de Cervantes Saavedra, Don Quixote

Phil W

Re: Tubeless for Dummies
« Reply #40 on: January 18, 2015, 09:06:01 pm »
Valve should be fine just hand tight. A small slit in tape is all that's needed then rubber on valve that sits inside rim should seal the rest.

Re: Tubeless for Dummies
« Reply #41 on: January 22, 2015, 04:30:26 pm »
A question for those who "converted" standard rims to tubeless. What, if anything did you use to seal the valve to the rim tape with? I've just taped up a Mavic Askium One, 2 layers of packing tape over the original Mavic vinyl tape. I made a small cross cut through the tape to install the valve, and used CO2 to get the bead seated - a track pump wouldn't do the initial expansion quick enough.  Seated the bead, deflated the tyre, added sealant, re inflated (with track pump) only to have a leak around the valve stem as evidenced by bubbles from the soapy water Id used to aid installation and bead seating. I've used pliers to tighten the valve stem nut, added extra sealant and "bounced" the tyre to splash it about around the valve area, and seem to have slowed the loss of air (it dropped from 6 to 2 bar overnight before I added extra sealant this morning). It may just be a case of letting the valve seat bed in to the tape until all flexibility has gone, but something to give an initial seal would help - and I need to be able to remove the valve roadside to use a spare tube in emergencies, so an overnight valve stem nut isn't desirable - I was thinking maybe Vaseline, or a non setting mastic?


I had this first time I tried and it turned out to be a tape leak and not the valve. Switched to Stan's tape on a clean rim and all is fine. Very slow pressure loss without sealant. A few weeks rideability with.

Otto

  • Biking Bad
Re: Tubeless for Dummies
« Reply #42 on: January 22, 2015, 04:44:31 pm »
I'm confused I 'm guessing that tubeless now is something completely different from the 'Tubs' I had to cement onto my rims 30 years ago?

PaulF

  • "World's Scariest Barman"
  • It's only impossible if you stop to think about it
Re: Tubeless for Dummies
« Reply #43 on: January 22, 2015, 04:46:27 pm »
A question for those who "converted" standard rims to tubeless. What, if anything did you use to seal the valve to the rim tape with? I've just taped up a Mavic Askium One, 2 layers of packing tape over the original Mavic vinyl tape. I made a small cross cut through the tape to install the valve, and used CO2 to get the bead seated - a track pump wouldn't do the initial expansion quick enough.  Seated the bead, deflated the tyre, added sealant, re inflated (with track pump) only to have a leak around the valve stem as evidenced by bubbles from the soapy water Id used to aid installation and bead seating. I've used pliers to tighten the valve stem nut, added extra sealant and "bounced" the tyre to splash it about around the valve area, and seem to have slowed the loss of air (it dropped from 6 to 2 bar overnight before I added extra sealant this morning). It may just be a case of letting the valve seat bed in to the tape until all flexibility has gone, but something to give an initial seal would help - and I need to be able to remove the valve roadside to use a spare tube in emergencies, so an overnight valve stem nut isn't desirable - I was thinking maybe Vaseline, or a non setting mastic? 




I've used both a Stan's rim strip which is a heavy duty rim strip with integrated valve and 'Gorilla' tape. Gorilla tape was a little more faff to set up but worked as well as the rim strip.

PaulF

  • "World's Scariest Barman"
  • It's only impossible if you stop to think about it
Re: Tubeless for Dummies
« Reply #44 on: January 22, 2015, 04:50:42 pm »
I'm confused I 'm guessing that tubeless now is something completely different from the 'Tubs' I had to cement onto my rims 30 years ago?

Yes, tubeless essentially does away with an inner tube. The Stan's rim strip, Gorilla Tape etc. are used to seal the spoke holes to prevent air loss. I don't know how it is for road set ups but on a MTB I use a standard tyre and a latex solution/suspension in the tyre that initially seals any holes in the tyre (some sidewalls can be quite porous) and then serves to plug any holes caused by thorns etc..

Otto

  • Biking Bad
Re: Tubeless for Dummies
« Reply #45 on: January 22, 2015, 05:03:12 pm »
I'm confused I 'm guessing that tubeless now is something completely different from the 'Tubs' I had to cement onto my rims 30 years ago?

Yes, tubeless essentially does away with an inner tube. The Stan's rim strip, Gorilla Tape etc. are used to seal the spoke holes to prevent air loss. I don't know how it is for road set ups but on a MTB I use a standard tyre and a latex solution/suspension in the tyre that initially seals any holes in the tyre (some sidewalls can be quite porous) and then serves to plug any holes caused by thorns etc..

All is clear ... thank you

PaulF

  • "World's Scariest Barman"
  • It's only impossible if you stop to think about it
Re: Tubeless for Dummies
« Reply #46 on: January 22, 2015, 06:00:45 pm »
You're welcome :)

Cycling Daddy

  • "We shall have an adventure by and by," said Don Q
Re: Tubeless for Dummies
« Reply #47 on: January 23, 2015, 05:24:08 am »
There are advantages.  Yesterday my rear tubeless flatted.  I refilled with CO2, spun the wheel a few times and continued on my way.  About 3 minutes in total
Too much sanity may be madness. And maddest of all, to see life as it is and not as it should be.”
― Miguel de Cervantes Saavedra, Don Quixote

Re: Tubeless for Dummies
« Reply #48 on: January 23, 2015, 06:47:47 am »
There are advantages.  Yesterday my rear tubeless flatted.  I refilled with CO2, spun the wheel a few times and continued on my way.  About 3 minutes in total

It's not all plain sailing though. I had a piece of glass through mine, it created a rather large slit. It sealed eventually, but I was messing around with it for well over half an hour. Also, our own TG reported about 10 days ago that he'd "slit" the tyre. He wasted a good half an hour changing the tyre.

PaulF

  • "World's Scariest Barman"
  • It's only impossible if you stop to think about it
Re: Tubeless for Dummies
« Reply #49 on: January 23, 2015, 06:59:18 am »
Certainly for mtb's tyres the weldtite tubeless repair kit works very well for holes too big for the sealant to fix. Actually faster than putting in a new inner tube