Author Topic: Signal right to turn left  (Read 4804 times)

Signal right to turn left
« on: 08 November, 2016, 03:12:51 pm »
Well not exactly.

If I'm riding along a narrow residential "main" road and/or just about to enter a pinch point, and I am going to left left into a side street just slightly ahead of me, and I can sense a fast approaching car coming from behind, I give a right arm signal (straight out horizontal to the right) to mean "keep the f away, either overtake correctly or keep back".

Then when I'm at the side road, I  put my arm back on the bars and make the turn.

This is basically a variation on putting the right arm out to prevent close overtakes.

T42

  • Apprentice geezer
Re: Signal right to turn left
« Reply #1 on: 08 November, 2016, 03:39:34 pm »
Reminds me of the days of hand-signals for cars, when you made a sort of "undertake me" signal out the LH window to indicate an upcoming right turn.
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Cudzoziemiec

  • Ride adventurously and stop for a brew.
Re: Signal right to turn left
« Reply #2 on: 08 November, 2016, 05:08:27 pm »
I can see the point of it, but I do wonder about a couple of things; what would happen if everyone did it? It would either be bloody confusing all round or would become so understood as to negate its effect. And what about traffic on your left? Pedestrians about to cross the road you want to enter and scooters or other cyclists who will naturally overtake you on the left in the belief you're turning right.
Riding a concrete path through the nebulous and chaotic future.

Re: Signal right to turn left
« Reply #3 on: 08 November, 2016, 05:18:49 pm »
I'd pull out in good time to get through the pinch point without signalling right.  Then signal left.

Reminds me of the days of hand-signals for cars, when you made a sort of "undertake me" signal out the LH window to indicate an upcoming right turn.

Would you need kinda long arms to signal out of the LH window?  And what is an 'undertake me' signal other than being dead?
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Dibdib

  • Fat'n'slow
Re: Signal right to turn left
« Reply #4 on: 08 November, 2016, 05:44:14 pm »
I'd pull out in good time to get through the pinch point without signalling right.  Then signal left.

This. Treat them as two manoeuvres - first, moving out to primary (signalling if necessary) then second, signalling and making a left turn. Giving intentionally unclear signals sounds like a good way to get run over, IMO.

Would you need kinda long arms to signal out of the LH window?  And what is an 'undertake me' signal other than being dead?

On Le Continent or in Leftpondia, where they drive on the wrong side of the road and put the steering wheel on the wrong side. Over here it would be an funny arm signal out of the drivers window to turn left:


Kim

  • Timelord
    • Fediverse
Re: Signal right to turn left
« Reply #5 on: 08 November, 2016, 05:46:31 pm »
I'd pull out in good time to get through the pinch point without signalling right.  Then signal left.

This.

Indeed (when cycling) I tend not to signal left turns at all, unless there's someone waiting to pull out from, or pedestrians looking like crossing, the side road.

hellymedic

  • Just do it!
Re: Signal right to turn left
« Reply #6 on: 08 November, 2016, 05:47:17 pm »
I think for a RHD vehicle, hand signals were:
I want to turn right -> Right arm out of window, held still
I am slowing/stopping -> Right hand out, flapping up and down
I want to turn left -> Right hand out, waving in circles
or something...

Kim

  • Timelord
    • Fediverse
Re: Signal right to turn left
« Reply #7 on: 08 November, 2016, 05:47:22 pm »
Over here it would be an funny arm signal out of the drivers window to turn left:



I actually had to use that once, when electrical gremlins took out the indicator circuit.

The really weird leftpondian thing is expecting cyclists to use those signals too.

Feanor

  • It's mostly downhill from here.
Re: Signal right to turn left
« Reply #8 on: 08 November, 2016, 05:49:04 pm »
Wasn't there a variation where you stuck your right arm out of the window and pointed left by hooking it up over the roof?

ETA: Not that I can find; I must have imagined it.

Re: Signal right to turn left
« Reply #9 on: 08 November, 2016, 05:51:56 pm »
Quote
I'd pull out in good time to get through the pinch point without signalling right.  Then signal left.

IME, pulling out without a right arm out risks a very very close overtake or even getting knocked off.

Quote
what would happen if everyone did it? It would either be bloody confusing all round or would become so understood as to negate its effect

A bit of confusion might not be a bad thing, everyone will have to slow down a bit. I still have have my right arm out and that prevents a close overtake.

Quote
And what about traffic on your left? Pedestrians about to cross the road you want to enter and scooters or other cyclists who will naturally overtake you on the left in the belief you're turning right.

Obviously I take notice of who's around me. If someone's about to cross the side road, I slow down give way. I rarely see other cyclists in SE London, apart from on the major through routes at commuting times. And there's usually no space on my left anyway.

The roads I tend to do this on are not the main roads but the residential through routes. The former has heavy ans slower traffic and close overtakes are less of a problem, unless there are clear stretches of no traffic. The latter are rat runs and drivers drive like dickheads and make cycling very unpleasant.

Quote
Indeed (when cycling) I tend not to signal left turns at all, unless there's someone waiting to pull out from, or pedestrians looking like crossing, the side road.

That's a very good point.  I usually don't signal when approaching a T junction.

hellymedic

  • Just do it!
Re: Signal right to turn left
« Reply #10 on: 08 November, 2016, 05:52:23 pm »
Thanks Kim, so it was widdershins circles.

Feanor

  • It's mostly downhill from here.
Re: Signal right to turn left
« Reply #11 on: 08 November, 2016, 05:56:04 pm »


Looks like me teaching NMR to a class....

Cudzoziemiec

  • Ride adventurously and stop for a brew.
Re: Signal right to turn left
« Reply #12 on: 08 November, 2016, 05:57:16 pm »


Looks like me teaching NMR to a class....
Nuclear magnetic resonance? National milk records?
Riding a concrete path through the nebulous and chaotic future.

Cudzoziemiec

  • Ride adventurously and stop for a brew.
Re: Signal right to turn left
« Reply #13 on: 08 November, 2016, 05:59:29 pm »
Uncertainty can be useful when people react to it by taking care and paying attention. That was one of the advantages (claimed at least) of the introduction of mini-roundabouts. But uncertainty is not the same as confusion.
Riding a concrete path through the nebulous and chaotic future.

Feanor

  • It's mostly downhill from here.
Re: Signal right to turn left
« Reply #14 on: 08 November, 2016, 06:07:47 pm »


Looks like me teaching NMR to a class....
Nuclear magnetic resonance? National milk records?

Nuclear Magnetic Resonance.

Talking about polarisation, tipping and precession of Hydrogen nuclei usually seems to involve a lot of arm-waving.

Re: Signal right to turn left
« Reply #15 on: 08 November, 2016, 06:30:58 pm »
Uncertainty can be useful when people react to it by taking care and paying attention. That was one of the advantages (claimed at least) of the introduction of mini-roundabouts. But uncertainty is not the same as confusion.

Good point.

I could stop the right arm out (meaning overtake safely or don't overtake) before the turn, then turn or signal left then turn .

Mr Larrington

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Re: Signal right to turn left
« Reply #16 on: 08 November, 2016, 06:47:34 pm »
Wasn't there a variation where you stuck your right arm out of the window and pointed left by hooking it up over the roof?

ETA: Not that I can find; I must have imagined it.

I have a vague recollection of this too, so it must be some sort of mass hallucination.  Have those unscrupulous buggers at the CIA been dumping acid in the reservoir again?
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Cudzoziemiec

  • Ride adventurously and stop for a brew.
Re: Signal right to turn left
« Reply #17 on: 08 November, 2016, 07:54:12 pm »
Uncertainty can be useful when people react to it by taking care and paying attention. That was one of the advantages (claimed at least) of the introduction of mini-roundabouts. But uncertainty is not the same as confusion.

Good point.

I could stop the right arm out (meaning overtake safely or don't overtake) before the turn, then turn or signal left then turn .
So you'd be signalling right at the pinch point, which makes sense, and then either turning left with a left turn signal or without a signal. That makes sense to me. I certainly don't always signal a left turn, though probably would if there was someone behind me. In fact, I don't think I always signal a right turn either, though I would in the major-into-minor situation. 
Riding a concrete path through the nebulous and chaotic future.

Zipperhead

  • The cyclist formerly known as Big Helga
Re: Signal right to turn left
« Reply #18 on: 08 November, 2016, 09:03:55 pm »
The first time that I rode my trike, when I thought I was getting the hang of it I decided to turn right, signalled a right turn and it promptly turned left up somebodies drive.

Since then I've always kept a flask of "Scottish holy water" on board.
Won't somebody think of the hamsters!

Re: Signal right to turn left
« Reply #19 on: 08 November, 2016, 09:14:57 pm »
Wasn't there a variation where you stuck your right arm out of the window and pointed left by hooking it up over the roof?

ETA: Not that I can find; I must have imagined it.

I have a vague recollection of this too, so it must be some sort of mass hallucination.  Have those unscrupulous buggers at the CIA been dumping acid in the reservoir again?

What's the one where, signaling to a policeman on point duty, you raise a hand in front of your chest, palm outwards?

Feanor

  • It's mostly downhill from here.
Re: Signal right to turn left
« Reply #20 on: 08 November, 2016, 09:18:17 pm »
I think that's SO @ X

Cudzoziemiec

  • Ride adventurously and stop for a brew.
Re: Signal right to turn left
« Reply #21 on: 08 November, 2016, 09:39:10 pm »
Wasn't there a variation where you stuck your right arm out of the window and pointed left by hooking it up over the roof?

ETA: Not that I can find; I must have imagined it.

I have a vague recollection of this too, so it must be some sort of mass hallucination.  Have those unscrupulous buggers at the CIA been dumping acid in the reservoir again?

What's the one where, signaling to a policeman on point duty, you raise a hand in front of your chest, palm outwards?
"It wasn't me, honest, officer."
Riding a concrete path through the nebulous and chaotic future.

hellymedic

  • Just do it!
Re: Signal right to turn left
« Reply #22 on: 08 November, 2016, 09:43:10 pm »
Wasn't there a variation where you stuck your right arm out of the window and pointed left by hooking it up over the roof?

ETA: Not that I can find; I must have imagined it.

I have a vague recollection of this too, so it must be some sort of mass hallucination.  Have those unscrupulous buggers at the CIA been dumping acid in the reservoir again?

What's the one where, signaling to a policeman on point duty, you raise a hand in front of your chest, palm outwards?

I am going straight ahead. (SO@X for those of Audax persuasion))