Author Topic: To bib or not or...  (Read 2870 times)

To bib or not or...
« on: 27 May, 2018, 01:58:34 pm »
Please bear with me a little here as I think I've come across something so blindingly obvious that I'm amazed that no one has though of it before.

Quick summary:
Waistband shorts - tight around the tummy but lets you go to the toilet with relative ease. Nothing really holds the shorts up so mid-ride adjustment required for maximum comfort.
Bib shorts - holds the shorts up with bibs, but very difficult to get out of. Now is a good time for us all to enjoy this video from last years giro again. Also bib material on the torso gets really sweaty in the summer.
Racesuit/skinsuit - all reviews agree that these are very comfortable as the shorts keep the jersey held down and the jersey keeps the shorts held up. Expensive though and you can't go with a custom shorts/jersey combo (ie. wearing club colours). Also, only works if your body is in the approved proportions.

I am an unlucky person who has a short torso. Bibs never work with me. I've made do for years, but no more! A few years back, I bodged something that let me join my jersey and shorts in a non-permanent fashion. When I went out riding with a mate, he saw this and we worked together to refine the idea.

I've now got a device with one piece clipping onto the jersey and the other onto the shorts. Magnets snap the pieces together behind your back and it mechanically locks in place when pulled apart to keep the jersey pulled down and shorts up. It works well enough that I've started cutting the bibs off my shorts.

Why has no one done this before?!?

Kim

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Re: To bib or not or...
« Reply #1 on: 27 May, 2018, 02:20:52 pm »
I've now got a device with one piece clipping onto the jersey and the other onto the shorts. Magnets snap the pieces together behind your back and it mechanically locks in place when pulled apart to keep the jersey pulled down and shorts up. It works well enough that I've started cutting the bibs off my shorts.

Why has no one done this before?!?

That's something I've thought about on various soggy occasions, when I'd quite like my (already modified so I'm not lying on a clip when used with a recumbent seat) rainlegs to come all the way up to the bottom of my gilet.  I keep meaning to experiment with velcro to hold the two together, but magnets might be a better option...

Re: To bib or not or...
« Reply #2 on: 27 May, 2018, 02:28:50 pm »
I thought about velcro, but the problem is that putting velcro in the washing machine is that it rips through any lycra in the same wash. I have to put my gloves in a little washbag to avoid the problem!

Kim

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Re: To bib or not or...
« Reply #3 on: 27 May, 2018, 02:50:52 pm »
I mostly avoid that problem with gloves by making sure the velcro is closed such that none of the hook part is exposed.  Doesn't work so well when you want to use it to mate two different garments, of course, although probably okay with a waterproof like rainlegs where it doesn't get washed regularly.

quixoticgeek

  • Mostly Harmless
Re: To bib or not or...
« Reply #4 on: 27 May, 2018, 02:54:42 pm »
I mostly avoid that problem with gloves by making sure the velcro is closed such that none of the hook part is exposed.  Doesn't work so well when you want to use it to mate two different garments, of course, although probably okay with a waterproof like rainlegs where it doesn't get washed regularly.

I usually solve this by just loosing 1 glove from the pair before they get to the point of needing a wash... I wouldn't recommend this method tho...

J
--
Beer, bikes, and backpacking
http://b.42q.eu/

Re: To bib or not or...
« Reply #5 on: 27 May, 2018, 03:13:56 pm »
Bibs can be altered by taking in at the shoulder seams of course, which shortens the torso. And I have some Sportful mitts that are gloves with full backs and no Velcro.
We are making a New World (Paul Nash, 1918)

Ben T

Re: To bib or not or...
« Reply #6 on: 27 May, 2018, 03:19:38 pm »
I have never had a problem with the waistband of non-bib shorts, find it perfectly comfortable.
The one thing I have an issue with is leg warmers and arm warmers.
They are either too loose, and in the case of leg warmers fall down, or arm warmers don't cover the whole arm, or if they are tight enough, they leave a sore red mark where the rubber bit digs in.
They are a convenient item especially for longer audaxes which involve night riding but can't stand them due to the grippers.


T42

  • Apprentice geezer
Re: To bib or not or...
« Reply #7 on: 27 May, 2018, 04:21:00 pm »
Current (well, 2015) Assos bibs are more like shorts with braces.  OK, you still have to do a strip before al fresco defecation but otherwise they're fine, and do not constrict one's lunch.
I've dusted off all those old bottles and set them up straight

Re: To bib or not or...
« Reply #8 on: 27 May, 2018, 06:28:29 pm »

I've now got a device with one piece clipping onto the jersey and the other onto the shorts. Magnets snap the pieces together behind your back and it mechanically locks in place when pulled apart to keep the jersey pulled down and shorts up. It works well enough that I've started cutting the bibs off my shorts.

Pictures please, as I can't quite see it in my mind's eye.

Re: To bib or not or...
« Reply #9 on: 28 May, 2018, 11:27:17 am »
Pictures please, as I can't quite see it in my mind's eye.

A pair shown here. One piece attaches to the jersey, another to the shorts.

picture

Total assembled thickness of about 6mm so it sits flat against the skin/clothing.

Re: To bib or not or...
« Reply #10 on: 28 May, 2018, 11:35:19 am »
Bibs can be altered by taking in at the shoulder seams of course, which shortens the torso.

I've done this before (but at the back to avoid chafing edges) but it still never worked terribly well as I still found that the padded insert liked to attempt to disappear up my backside. With the things I now use, I can pull the shorts sideways as well as upwards which keeps things more comfortable.

Re: To bib or not or...
« Reply #11 on: 28 May, 2018, 11:42:00 am »
There is one and only one advantage to bibless shorts.

Ask Hummers.

Re: To bib or not or...
« Reply #12 on: 28 May, 2018, 11:42:50 am »
There is one and only one advantage to bibless shorts.

Ask Hummers.

Nope. Nope. Nope. Nope. Nope.

Re: To bib or not or...
« Reply #13 on: 28 May, 2018, 11:44:31 am »
Pictures please, as I can't quite see it in my mind's eye.

A pair shown here. One piece attaches to the jersey, another to the shorts.

picture
Show it in use.
Total assembled thickness of about 6mm so it sits flat against the skin/clothing.

Re: To bib or not or...
« Reply #14 on: 28 May, 2018, 11:58:57 am »
A pair shown here. One piece attaches to the jersey, another to the shorts.

picture
Show it in use.

If is difficult to get a picture of one's own backside. Hummers was mentioned earlier on, I'm sure that this is somewhere where his expertise could provide most helpful.

I'll come back once I've got a picture.

Cudzoziemiec

  • Ride adventurously and stop for a brew.
Re: To bib or not or...
« Reply #15 on: 28 May, 2018, 12:12:09 pm »
Wouldn't shorts with traditional braces be a simpler alternative? But wouldn't keep your jersey down, if that's a problem for you (I've never noticed it happening). Got to say though since I discovered bib shorts I've given up on lycra waist shorts, they seem less comfy but without avoiding the lycra leer. So either bibs or non-lycra (like humvees or, you know, just trousers).
Riding a concrete path through the nebulous and chaotic future.

Re: To bib or not or...
« Reply #16 on: 28 May, 2018, 12:27:16 pm »
I find these dhb classic shorts and assos H F1 Uno shorts to be fine, as their wide waistbands seem comfortable for me.

Re: To bib or not or...
« Reply #17 on: 28 May, 2018, 12:52:09 pm »
Wouldn't shorts with traditional braces be a simpler alternative? But wouldn't keep your jersey down, if that's a problem for you (I've never noticed it happening). Got to say though since I discovered bib shorts I've given up on lycra waist shorts, they seem less comfy but without avoiding the lycra leer. So either bibs or non-lycra (like humvees or, you know, just trousers).

Braces of various designs are commonly used for women's cycling shorts but none have really taken off as "the best thing" as you can see from the range of variations and the number of women who still wear non-bib shorts. I'd be interested to hear the views of some of the women who spend a large part of the day in the saddle on their choice of shorts.

Honestly, before I started work on these, I used to go with bib shorts because there doesn't seem to be much selection of really good quality waistbands shorts. Now I'm buying good bib shorts and cutting the straps off  ;D

Edit - has anyone tried a speedsuit (ie. one piece jersey & shorts) yet?

Kim

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Re: To bib or not or...
« Reply #18 on: 28 May, 2018, 01:17:57 pm »
Braces of various designs are commonly used for women's cycling shorts but none have really taken off as "the best thing" as you can see from the range of variations and the number of women who still wear non-bib shorts. I'd be interested to hear the views of some of the women who spend a large part of the day in the saddle on their choice of shorts.

IME:

Anything that involves significant undressing and dangling straps in a toilet bowl to have a wee is a major disadvantage.  Doubly so if you have to do it in the wild.

Waistbands don't seem to cause me discomfort, though they're often looser than they should be.

Clothing that doesn't fit very well is normal and ordinary and just a part of the way the world works.  Most of my trousers have several inches of spare waist in order to fit properly in the arse and thighs, so it seems likely that cycling shorts are similarly affected.

I endeavour not to spend longer than necessary in the saddle[1], therefore my choice of cycling clothing is influenced by what also works well on a seat (that's mostly about pads that don't rub your inner thighs, and minimising lumpy bits down the middle of your back).

Jersey waistbands riding up is an issue, particularly with 'unisex' designs, or anything that's oversized because women's cycling stuff is designed for people without shoulders/boobs.  Mostly harmless with a saddle, and can be mitigated by carrying things in the pockets.  With a seat you end up lying on the bunch, so it needs regular straightening.  My latest discovery is a recumbent-specific women's jersey which miraculously manages to put the waistband in the right place and stay there.


So while the idea of attaching jerseys to shorts (in a non-lumpy way) has some appeal, I don't see the point in bibs.

TBH, the cycling clothing innovation I'd like most would be humvees with room for quads.


[1] The 'best bike for the job' principle means I mostly use saddles for utility rides and off-roading, where (once nasty seams have been eliminated) durability and convenience of clothing are more important than long-term comfort.

Re: To bib or not or...
« Reply #19 on: 31 May, 2018, 05:35:21 pm »
Thanks for your thoughts Kim. Doing some background reading, it seems like there is no great solution for women with lots of women lamenting the lack of a good solution. Any other ladies wanting to share their thoughts on this subject?

De Sisti
Photo of clips in place on kit

quixoticgeek

  • Mostly Harmless
Re: To bib or not or...
« Reply #20 on: 31 May, 2018, 07:25:36 pm »
Thanks for your thoughts Kim. Doing some background reading, it seems like there is no great solution for women with lots of women lamenting the lack of a good solution. Any other ladies wanting to share their thoughts on this subject?

I've yet to come across a decent solution. Female Anatomy, and the variation of shape and sizes the basic combinations come in make it a Really Hard Problemâ„¢. Even when I find bib shorts that fit over my rear, the alignment of the straps tends to not be conducive with breasts (there is an implicit assumption from the cycle industry that no female cyclist is bigger than a B cup...). And in the unlikely event that you do manage to find bib shorts that fit the arse, don't interfere with the boobs, and are comfortable. The moment you need to stop for arboreal irrigation results in striptease, Which if you're in a major hurry, or the weather is being weathery, is a less than optimal situation.

One youtuber (@cyclingwoman on twitter, don't know her youtube handle by memory), had a set of bib shorts with a zip at the back that she seemed to think kinda worked. I've yet to even find a place in .nl selling that brand/model so have been unable to verify. Shame really...

J
--
Beer, bikes, and backpacking
http://b.42q.eu/

Re: To bib or not or...
« Reply #21 on: 31 May, 2018, 09:17:46 pm »
I've yet to come across a decent solution. Female Anatomy, and the variation of shape and sizes the basic combinations come in make it a Really Hard Problemâ„¢. Even when I find bib shorts that fit over my rear, the alignment of the straps tends to not be conducive with breasts (there is an implicit assumption from the cycle industry that no female cyclist is bigger than a B cup...). And in the unlikely event that you do manage to find bib shorts that fit the arse, don't interfere with the boobs, and are comfortable. The moment you need to stop for arboreal irrigation results in striptease, Which if you're in a major hurry, or the weather is being weathery, is a less than optimal situation.

One youtuber (@cyclingwoman on twitter, don't know her youtube handle by memory), had a set of bib shorts with a zip at the back that she seemed to think kinda worked. I've yet to even find a place in .nl selling that brand/model so have been unable to verify. Shame really...

Are these the zippered shorts you were after?
https://www.evanscycles.com/endura-women-s-fs260-pro-bibshort-EV184282

I'm tempted to make some more of my clips and offer them for sale. Quixoticgeek - do you want to do some prototype testing for me?

quixoticgeek

  • Mostly Harmless
Re: To bib or not or...
« Reply #22 on: 31 May, 2018, 09:24:18 pm »
I've yet to come across a decent solution. Female Anatomy, and the variation of shape and sizes the basic combinations come in make it a Really Hard Problemâ„¢. Even when I find bib shorts that fit over my rear, the alignment of the straps tends to not be conducive with breasts (there is an implicit assumption from the cycle industry that no female cyclist is bigger than a B cup...). And in the unlikely event that you do manage to find bib shorts that fit the arse, don't interfere with the boobs, and are comfortable. The moment you need to stop for arboreal irrigation results in striptease, Which if you're in a major hurry, or the weather is being weathery, is a less than optimal situation.

One youtuber (@cyclingwoman on twitter, don't know her youtube handle by memory), had a set of bib shorts with a zip at the back that she seemed to think kinda worked. I've yet to even find a place in .nl selling that brand/model so have been unable to verify. Shame really...

Are these the zippered shorts you were after?
https://www.evanscycles.com/endura-women-s-fs260-pro-bibshort-EV184282

I'm tempted to make some more of my clips and offer them for sale. Quixoticgeek - do you want to do some prototype testing for me?

https://www.sigmasports.com/item/Velocio/Signature-Fly-Womens-Bib-Short/DDF7

Review here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6FxONCaw4k4

Sure, always willing to test stuff.

J
--
Beer, bikes, and backpacking
http://b.42q.eu/

Re: To bib or not or...
« Reply #23 on: 01 June, 2018, 09:56:18 am »
One youtuber (@cyclingwoman on twitter, don't know her youtube handle by memory), had a set of bib shorts with a zip at the back that she seemed to think kinda worked. I've yet to even find a place in .nl selling that brand/model so have been unable to verify. Shame really...

J
Gore did/ do some. they're OK. https://www.gorewear.com/uk/en-uk/gore-c5-women-bib-shorts-100198.html. Mine tore by the zips, but to be honest, I've got a lot of arse they needed to contain.

I wear these: https://totalwomenscycling.com/road-cycling/clothing/pearl-izumi-elite-cycling-bib-shorts-review which are better. I've never had the back bit expose flesh. And like I say, there's a lot they need to cover.