HPC - is this right?

[Wendy]

Picture this - I'm leaving Hyde Park via the little cycle lane that leads across Knightsbridge Green, through the arch:

Google Maps

Green ped lights, green cycle light.  However, I want to join the roundabout here, so turn left.  Now I usually end up having to wait for the traffic on the roundabout anyway, as it's busy.  If there's a gap, am I right in thinking I'm allowed to go regardless of the red light for eastbound traffic on Knightsbridge Green behind me, and the green light for traffic on the roundabout?  I was never behind their stop line.

[woollypigs]

I would say go, but you have to give way for the traffic coming from Grosvenor Place (North bound).

[border-rider]

I'd say go, but in practice - as you say -  you usually have to wait for the crossing to change before you can get onto the roundabout or you get flattened by the traffic coming round

I used to do that every day on the Brommie.  Once, I sprinted onto the roundabout into a small gap and the chain snapped, leaving me freewheeling in the middle of it all.  Not good.

[Ian H]

It's one of many bits of bike facility planning that doesn't connect properly. Traffic lights are positioned where they're best visible, the stop line is the statutory bit.

[border-rider]

It's one of many bits of bike facility planning that doesn't connect properly.

It does connect if you choose to use the cycle path across the middle rather than whizzing round the outside with the rest of the traffic.

HPC's actually quite calm if you know where you are going and have the acceleration, but I can see that for the timid/stately the path would be more comfortable.  The big problem (if you're in a hurry) is the lights at the other end, where you cross to Constitution Hill, where you inevitably get held up for ages because they're timed weirdly.

[nuttycyclist]

...If there's a gap, am I right in thinking I'm allowed to go regardless of the red light for eastbound traffic on Knightsbridge Green behind me, and the green light for traffic on the roundabout?  I was never behind their stop line.

Whenever I come out of the park I hit the green cycle light and surge onto the roundabout at that point.   As far as I'm concerned I have a green light so therefore I am allowed to go.  It's frustrating that the traffic on the roundabout also has a green light   it seems stupid that the two green lights lead to conflict.   However I treat it as a normal roundabout in that situation, giving way to the traffic already on the junction.


Reading betwixt the lines do I detect there may be a reason for your question Mike?

[Wendy]

Nah, I just feel slightly guilty for doing it, because some motorists might assume I'm just another RLJing cyclist.  I just thought I'd check my assumptions.

[Notsototalnewbie]

I always wondered about this too, and whether it was right to just go onto the roundabout or not. Have never been quite sure...

[teethgrinder]

I always wondered about this too, and whether it was right to just go onto the roundabout or not. Have never been quite sure...

A classic case of cyclepath confusion if ever I saw one. Cyclepaths do have a tendency to have their own unwritten, unknown rules and nothing to do with the Highway Code.
Off topic a bit, but...

Here in jolly ol' Milton Keynes, our most wonderfull Redway system (and this section also includes Sustrans National Cycle Netwok Route 51) takes us cyclists to the town centre. But, you go under a road, via an underpass, then come to a road, which you will then follow. You now have a choice. You can turn onto this road and then follow it instead of crossing this road onto the cyclepath. Or is it a cyclepath?
The road is effectively a service road which follows the main road. From this service road are parking spaces for the buildings along this road, so you are really riding through a car park, which is pretty hazardous.
Or you can use the cyclepath. Or is it a cyclepath? I still don't know. Why? Well, there is a sign which reads, "No cycling on footpath."
This sign is the blue rectangle with white writing (Meaning it is a reccommendation, only the red bordered, white circle with a picture of a bike means no cycling) So is it a cyclepath, or is it a footpath?
The Redway guide doesn't show it as Redway, but the current edition is years out of date and Milton Keynes is expanding very quickly.
I sometimes use the footpath/cyclepath.
Should I fess up to the fuzz for illegal cycling? Or am I a goody goody and can carry on as I have been doing?

[Tim Hall]

The correct way to deal with the traffic at HPC, as eny fule no, is to wait for the lights to change, have the mighty roar of London's traffic stopped by a man sporting a rather lovely knee bandage standing in front of it all and holding up a commanding hand.

You are then safe to proceed.

The only disadvantage is that you might end up at the seaside.

[woollypigs]

Tim Hall : new keyboard please

[nuttycyclist]

Similar confusion locally on my way home.

Approaching traffic lights at red.
I want to turn right.
I know that when the lights go green I'll be there ages waiting for a gap.
The pavement to my right is a cycle path.
As I approach the lights I see a gap so dive right through it and bump up a drive onto the cycleway, where 5 yards later I turn right into the side road.

To all observers I'm an irresponsible cyclist.  But if I ended up in court I could easily prove I was on permitted cycleable tarmac at al times

[mercury]

traffic stopped by a man sporting a rather lovely knee bandage

LOL

[juliet]

Ooh, I'd always assumed that I should wait for the green light on Knightsbridge Green when I do that.  Hurrah, shall cease to do so

I have been experimenting recently with HPC.  In the mornings, going from Constitution Hill into Hyde Park, it is quicker to stick with the traffic if you're *right* at the front of the queue & get going sharpish when the lights at the top of C Hill change.  Otherwise you get caught at the next lights, & it would be quicker to go across the cycle path in the middle.  Also IME that bit of road is pretty hairy. 

In the evenings, it's always quicker to stick with the traffic (turning as BentMikey describes, & heading round to C Hill) even if you get caught by the next lights after Knightsbridge Green.  And the road's not too bad providing you watch for people edging out from Piccadilly into your lane.

In other news: a very angry man in a van today whizzed very close to me at speed on Parliament Square, and then after I suggested he should give me more space, informed me that as I was on a bike, I should be on the outside of the road, not in the middle of it.  Even if I was going all the way around the roundabout.  Who knew?  (I was particularly baffled by this as, under his suggestion, I would cause him *more* inconvenience by having to swerve across his line of traffic, since I was taking a later exit.)