Combining Long Distance Riding and Racing

[CrazyEnglishTriathlete]

A couple of years ago, out of curiosity, I entered a couple of hill climb TTs on the same day, and rode from home to the first, between the rides, and then back to my caravan, to complete an imperial century. 

Its become an occasional habit to do this - most recently rounding up a 30 mile hilly to an imperial century

http://wp.me/p1NGJL-R

Curious to hear other peoples accounts of similar adventures.

[Hot Flatus]

Pretty much every Audax I ride 

[mattc]

I don't think I could ride 2 in a day, but I always ride out to the TTs I've done. They're normally more like 10 than 30 miles away, though! Sounds like a good day out CET 

I quite like the idea of these rolling course events - it's not like my PB on a fast course will ever be very impressive, so I may as well ride on nice roads. I think they're mainly early season though - abit like the longer Audaxes, they're all a bit earlier than the novice is really ready for. I guess I just need to MTFU next year.

(I wonder if I can ECE the Mersey 24H ... )

[Karla]

I was doing that with a 10 the other week, when a camper van pulled up beside me, with two TT bikes on the back. 

"Are you going to [race destination]?  Hop in!"

I did still ride home, though.

[Bairn Again]

I am seriously toying with doing a 50 mile TT the day after the Snow Roads 300km.

It starts at 8am (6 hours after the latest possible finish time for the 300) and is 30 miles away.

cycling there may be a challenge as will having a bike suitable for both. 

[giropaul]

Speaking in generalities:

Long distance riding is not a happy bedfellow with speed (hence Geraint Thomas is just doing track work through to the Olympics now).

People who win 12 and especially 24 hr time trials tend to seldom win 10s and 25s.

A good warm up is an essential part of a good time trial (in road races, at a higher level at least, there tends to be an early "piano" phase truce). Probably riding (steadily) 10 or 15 miles out to a time trial will help not hinder (as long as someone takes your best wheels out for you )

It then depends why you are racing - to win or to enjoy being there. If it's to win, then a big effort the day (or especially 2 days) before will be likely to slow you down. 

Ultimately, if you want to win time trials (the OP seems to be about time trials), then the way to do this is by concentrating on that, not mixing in a bit of Audax and a bit of touring. BUT - not everyone is racing to win in a time trial.

[mattc]

GP seems to be talking sense!

People who win 12 and especially 24 hr time trials tend to seldom win 10s and 25s.

I think "win" is the key word there! The 24hr winners have all been vvv fast over 10 miles too. (Tricky to prove recently, as Mr Wilkinson barely rode any in the last couple of years IIRC)

The final % of performance to win probably depends on focusing on just 1 end of the spectrum, but really 25 miles (and perhaps 10 miles?) is still an 'endurance' event in sports science terms.
(Equipment might be what makes the difference - i.e racing a 10 on your 24h setup, not using your most extreme position, comfy wheels etc.)

A good warm up is an essential part of a good time trial (in road races, at a higher level at least, there tends to be an early "piano" phase truce). Probably riding (steadily) 10 or 15 miles out to a time trial will help not hinder (as long as someone takes your best wheels out for you )

This seems to fit my interpretation of the published studies. I think the pros always do a "maximal" effort when warming up for TTs, but I'm not sure how long before the start that would be 

What I've found is that a 30min-ish ride out is a perfect warm-up, but you can screw things up by standing around getting cold while signing-on, chatting, attaching your number etc.
(Still, there is no way I'm ever going to drive to an event with warm-up rollers in the back - but then I'm never going to win! )

[CrazyEnglishTriathlete]

I've found that a series of stretches at the HQ after the ride out there seems to help keep the muscles loose and reduce the impact of getting cold at the start. 

My main goal this year is a 12-hour, so doing stuff after at 75 min hard effort is part of the endurance training for that.  It was my best time trial placing - but don't know how much that was down to the quality of opposition and (perhaps) improved fitness.

As for bike set-up.  I'll be using the same set up on the Dean 300km Audax this weekend as on the time trial, except strapping a couple of lights to the underside of the tri-bars.  From what I've heard quoted of Wilko - its more important to be comfortable on a fastish bike than have the fastest bike.

[Karla]

My main goal this year is a 12-hour

Which one?

[Exit Stage Left]

  From what I've heard quoted of Wilko - its more important to be comfortable on a fastish bike than have the fastest bike.

Wilko certainly has some different ideas, but don't be fooled by the appearance of his current bike, it's custom-made from top-grade Dediacci steel tubing.

[CrazyEnglishTriathlete]

CC Breckland - on the A11 where the record was set last year.  I did a fast 100 on this road and have relatives up that neck of the woods. 

Its in the middle of the Olympics so one problem will be fatigue from overnighting somewhere on the 9 mile circuit for the Road Race

[mattc]

CC Breckland - on the A11 where the record was set last year.  I did a fast 100 on this road and have relatives up that neck of the woods. 

Its in the middle of the Olympics so one problem will be fatigue from overnighting somewhere on the 9 mile circuit for the Road Race

I rode the 12 on there that was abandoned after 8 hours (RTA with Air Ambulance ). I was rather happy to stop! It was the most boring 8 hours of my life, on grey noisy concrete. Fast course, but never again.

If I ride another 12 it will be a slower/scenic course - the Shropshire/Cheshire one that shares with the M24 course looks possible. (But that is a big if.)

[Frank9755]

I do audax and time trials.  It works fine as long as I don't screw up the recovery times. 

I generally ride out to TTs; I did 30-ish miles each way to get to that Maidenhead hilly one (CET - I have just realised who you are!).  I think the ride-out acts as a good warm-up.   

What doesn't work is doing a race where I want to get a decent time when I haven't recovered from the previous long ride.  So, YLG, I wouldn't do what you are attempting as I know I'd be well off the pace on the 50 so I wouldn't see the point of it.   

I don't know exactly how long it takes me to recover properly but it is longer than three days.  I screwed this up badly at the end of last season when I was in good form and was aiming for a PB in a 25 on a fast course.  But, on race-day there was no power in my legs: they simply would not operate at the rate needed to get my heart going.  I'd not recovered from a hilly, hundred mile ride on the Thursday.

[CrazyEnglishTriathlete]

Another local rider claimed that he always did his best '10' times the week after the Bryan Chapman.  I did a decent hundred the weekend after the BC but then completely failed at the Kernow & SW two weeks after that - so I guess a lot depends on how much you have in the tank.

[Frank9755]

I did a PB in a 10 the weekend after PBP last year!   But that's mainly because I dont ride 10s much and my previous PB wasnt very fast. 

Recovery time is a very personal thing.  Graham Obree talked about it at length in his book, saying that getting it right was the key to cumulative improvements from training.

Funnily enough was discussing this on the train after the Dean yesterday with (i think) Bikey-Mikey and he was talking about a gadget which would do this and cost only a few pounds!

[MattH]

I am seriously toying with doing a 50 mile TT the day after the Snow Roads 300km.

It starts at 8am (6 hours after the latest possible finish time for the 300) and is 30 miles away.

cycling there may be a challenge as will having a bike suitable for both.

My PB on a 10 was on my steel audax bike, complete with mudguards, SON dynohub and pannier rack (I have a feeling I had a Carradice saddle bag on too, but it may have been a large seat pack). Admittedly that was on our fast "ski ramp" course, where it is easy to hit 60km/h on the descent and then has just mild rolling to the end - sub 19 isn't uncommon for the fast guys on that. I also tend to have tribars on the audax bike too, in order to give extra positions, so it's not that far off a TT bike except for being heavy and slightly more upright.