9 Speed Cassette 12-27/28 Does this Exist?

[MacB]

Just been messing about with ideal cassette spacing for a 1x9 setup and I've 'computed' that I'd quite like:-

12 - 13 - 14 - 15 - 16 - 18 - 20 - 23 - 27/28

does this exist?

I'm finding it quite hard to establish actual cog sizes for various cassette models and I think Sheldons stuff is a bit out of date now.

[drossall]

In Shimano, yes, I use 12-27 on my tourer. For example, here at Wiggle.

Bit of a price though. I stocked up while they were cheaper. I've got about three in the loft.

14-27 would be even better.

[Feanor]

The recent-purchase Shimano 12-27 CS6500
( http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Models.aspx?ModelID=1094 )
I have here in front of me is:

12-13-14-15 ( individual cogs); 17-19 ( pre-assembeld ); 21-24-27 ( pre-assembled )

[MacB]

Thanks folks but don't those cassettes jump from 15 to 17, it's missing the 16t that would bother me for the specific setup I have in mind. I'll have a play with some other ratios, just wish every retailer listed all the cogs per cassette rather than just the range.

[giropaul]

You can get a Marchisio in any combination you want, Campag or Shimano/SRAM.

[Feanor]

Yep, it does.
I don't find that too big a jump on my setup.
You're going to have to accept some big jumps if you want 12-27 in 9 hops.
I find that the bigger jumps at the lower gearing most welcome when I need to call on it.

I purchased this cassette for a grimpy ride around the Lake District, and in particular for Hardknott.

I agree that it's annoying that the retailers don't specify the actual teeth sizes you will get, nor offer any options within the same range.   But there you have it.

[MacB]

I know but rather pricey, though maybe worth it if individual cogs can be swapped out. I'm thinking about a variable 1x9 setup here, so being able to swap cassette/chain for planned ride. For a lot of, or most, riding a 12-23 would be spot on but I may want something more for certain rides. I do have an inner ring on the chainset as well, a 24t, and I'm still debating whether to dedicate to 1x9 or go 2x9. The temptation is to forego the FD and change front rings manually if the need arises. Or to only fit an FD for rides it may be needed.

Alternatively I could run a 12-23 1x9 as standard and swap to a broader range for bigger rides. If I went with a short/medium cage MTB RD then I could go from 12-23 to 11-32/34 just by varying chain length.

From what I can see, looking at something like a Shimano SLX M662 RD here, then they come in medium or long cage. Would this work as well with 12-23 as 11-34 for a single ring setup?

[Somnolent]

Could you live with 19 instead of 20?
If so, you could do it by butchering a 12-23 plus a 11-28 or a 11-32

I did this (grinding off the rivet heads) of a 11-32 and an 11-34 to build up a 12-30.  The shifting ramps don't line up but it doesnt seem to affect performance.

Incidentally I limited that one to 30 biggest because Sheldon reckoned that was as far as a Shimano road mech (of his era) could be "pushed".   I've since tested an 11-32 with an RD-6500 and my custom wide range front (50-38-26) and it still all works.   

Just wondering why you are considering an MTB rear mech ?

[MacB]

Just wondering why you are considering an MTB rear mech ?

Just around capacity etc Pete, I think the problem, well only for me , is that I want the simplicity of SS/Fixed but lack the courage and also have my versatility/redundancy OCD to contend with. Honestly it gets embarrasing, I actually found myself tweaking a custom design to potentially allow it to accomodate racks and guards etc. For a bike that, at best, would be third string backup for these sorts of duties and only called into use if I had a double Rohloff failure, followed by a failure of my backup geared wheel for those bikes. I mean where's the sense? I was trying to design an out and out fun bike and kept getting drawn back to adding bits. A bit like designing a Bowie knife and then trying to turn it into a Swiss Army knife 

Back on the MTB RD it's partly my versatility bit again, I may never run bigger than a 28t cog but what if!!!! Put a MTB RD on and I can put on any cassette, put a road RD on and I have limits...and yes I've considered the SRAM Apex.

Are there any downsides to a MTB RD with a medium cage for a 12-23 1x9? Would it be a big performance difference compared to a SS road RD, or would I get chain drop problems etc?

I was kind of thinking SLX RD, 11-32/4 cassette for big rides and 12-23 for other rides and training. Plus leave the 24t ring in place and have the option to change front rings manually if/when desperate. Chainset has an outer bashguard anyway so maybe just add one of those sharktooth chaincatcher things on the inside?

[tatanab]

I know but rather pricey

You can also get Miche individual sprockets which are cheaper than Marchisio.  I know of only one supplier in the UK, who I consider expensive and I have bought from xxcycles in France  - sprockets here http://www.xxcycle.com/sprockets-cassette-composed-and-miche,en.php  and spacers here http://www.xxcycle.com/entretoise--4480,,en.php

[Somnolent]

Can't see why an MTB mech wouldnt cope with a 12-23, but I've never tried it, and as I indicated earlier a medium cage road mech can seemingly be pushed to 11-32 so you'd maybe only need a long cage if you went to 11-34.

Re simplicity of SS/Fixed ..... only got one thing to say to you mate....   MTFU 

[Biggsy]

Look into BBB cassettes.  Some of these have different sequences than Shimano's.

Or upgrade to 10-speed! 

[MacB]

Can't see why an MTB mech wouldnt cope with a 12-23, but I've never tried it, and as I indicated earlier a medium cage road mech can seemingly be pushed to 11-32 so you'd maybe only need a long cage if you went to 11-34.

Re simplicity of SS/Fixed ..... only got one thing to say to you mate....   MTFU 

I know, I know, it's weird, I can rid miles without changing gear secure in the knowledge they are there if I need them. But the thought of ditching them alltogether brings me out in a cold sweat.

I'll see if I can compare a couple of RDs in real life, I think the lines are getting more blurred since SRAM brought the Apex stuff out. Like you say it's what it can clear at the rear cassette wise, on capacity I understand what will work and how much chain an RD can take up. Just would seem easier to run a MTB one and never have to wonder than trying to experiment with a road one.

[MacB]

As usual this sort of thinking has led me on to other things including the awareness that they really are pushing 10 speed stuff. I think I understand the differences around MTB and Road 10 speed with Shimano, but wanted to clarify, has anyone done similar to this?:-

I buy the SLX M662 9 speed shadow rear mech medium cage which would allow me to run 9 speed road or mtb cassettes up to a 34t sprocket, with either a single or double chainring...the long cage version only being required for a triple?

I just use a cheapo 9 speed MTB shifter for now

If I take another foray into drops(there may be yet another set of weird bars en route) the same rear mech could be used to run a 10 speed road cassette with 10 speed road STIs? I know the MTB 10 speed cassettes are different but would this cover the SRAM Apex 11-32 10 speed cassette ok?

[Biggsy]

I had the same sort of trouble with 6, 8 and 9-speed, too: trying to have a reasonably wide range, yet with pleasantly small jumps between the gears.  I finally have my cake to eat with 10-speed: 13-14-15-16-17-19-21-23-26-29.  With a 26/39/51 chainset, it's the closest to perfection for me for road that I'm likely to reach.  (I'll be avoiding 11-speed for cost reasons).

It's well worth sacrificing gears at the top end to have a low bottom.  Just freewheel down the steepest hills, or stop chasing lorries.  On my one remaining 9-speed bike, I have 14-15-17-19-21-24-27-30* with a 26/39/50 chainset and 700C wheel.  Shimano ain't as good as Campag has having so many cassettes starting with 13 or 14T.  11-30 is nasty for road use, IMHO.

* Customised cassette with loose Campag and Marchisio sprockets.  I'll just switch to a Campag 14-28 when my Marchisio sprockets wear out.  Sadly for you, Campag cassettes don't fit Shimano-compatible hubs.

[MacB]

Yep, I'm leaning that way a bit Biggsy, much as my natural inclination was to stay away from 10 speed. I don't have your high end requirements so my front ring options will be 40t or 40/24, depending on whether I bother with an FD or not. I have all the bits I need for a 1 or 2x9 except for the rear derailleur. I probably will go 10 speed but I'd rather get use out of my existing 9 speed stuff before converting. If my understanding is correct then I can just shell out the £40 for an SLX 9 speed RD. Which will then work for my current stuff but also if I upgrade to 10 speed, as long as I use 10 speed road and not mtb shifters.

[Biggsy]

The high cost of 10-speed is a bugger, but 9-speed has got so much pricer in recent years that there's no longer a huge difference between the two.  At least that's the way it's seemed to me with Campag stuff.

Fortunately, "9 speed" chainsets, chainrings and front mechs (and rear mechs in most cases) tend to be okay with 10-speed too - so probably that just leaves the chain, cassette and rear shifter to upgrade.

[MacB]

The high cost of 10-speed is a bugger, but 9-speed has got so much pricer in recent years that there's no longer a huge difference between the two.  At least that's the way it's seemed to me with Campag stuff.

Fortunately, "9 speed" chainsets, chainrings and front mechs tend to be okay with 10-speed too - so that just leaves the chain, cassette and rear shifter to upgrade.

yep, starting to fall into place in my mind and the hike in 9 speed prices was part of the reason for my latest ramblings. When I looked at some STIs I can get 10 speed cheaper than 9 speed for the ones I like.

I just would rather do it in a couple of hops using my remaining 9 speed stuff up. I'm tired of selling on unused parts at a hefty loss 

[zigzag]

regarding road or mtb rear mech - mtb will work on all cassettes, but there is tiny bit more chain slap and it's sometimes tiny bit slower changing gears. every gearing setup is a compromise and you just choose what's important to you.

(my ideal setup would be variable gears from 20" to 150" with weight, efficiency, reliability and preferably cost of fixed/ss gears - can't see that coming any time soon )

[andrew_s]

You can also get Miche individual sprockets which are cheaper than Marchisio.

Shimano individual sprockets are available from Rose.
Usefulness will depend on whether the sprocket you want to replace is individual or part of a set of 3 on a carrier.

[Biggsy]

It'll be worth getting a cassette that can be separated into individual sprockets purely for customisation purposes, possibly with the help of sprockets from Rose, or by picking sprockets from two or more ready-made cassettes.

For any Campagnites reading this: get Mirage or Veloce (or maybe certain Centaur) cassettes if you want to customise them.  I don't know exactly for Shimano - I'd guess Sora, Tiagra, 105 maybe, Deore and below.