Offer: GPX tracks of routesheets

[ian_oli]

Would one way of offering things be to offer a bare bones 500 point or less track GPX with Controls as waypoints and then use one of the bikeroute sites to hold a full copy of the track. I already do the latter with RideWithGPX as it allows the rider to download in several formats (I found it doubles the number of track points needlessly though). I dont do the former

Incidentally I tried combining the routesheet and GPX as one source document a couple of years back, producing a second GPX and a Spreadsheet from it as a routesheets , but it proved so tiresome to maintain changes that I gave up.

[frankly frankie]

Really, the 800 struggles with GPX at all.  But AFAICT it will take a multi-Track GPX and process only the first Track in the file.  Someone said this is a bug - but to my eyes it's more of a 'feature' since the Edges are optimised for TCX 'Course' files (a Garmin proprietary format) not GPX (a cross-platform format).  I'd be very interested to know if the new Edge 820 is the same.

A solution seems to be to either combine all the Tracks into one (up to 10,000 points), or to provide a TCX multi-Course file.  But either of these would not be compatible with other popular GPSs of course.

So then you're back to maybe providing a BikeHike link - because that site can download the file in a variety of ways to suit different GPSs.  But users would have to be warned not to opt for Bikehike's tempting-looking 'Route GPX' option - because that's basically just broken.  Whatever you do, it comes down to providing good advice along with the file, an authoritative PDF linked from the AUK Calendar would be very helpful I think.

[cross-post with Ian]

[Panoramix]

From the point of view of the organiser or whoever is providing/distributing the GPX file, including a Route is problematic - because if it is used in 'follow road' (and most GPS users will do this if they get the opportunity  ) and if the GPS is set up for 'cycle' routing (as many are  ) then the rider will be led all over the shop and will blame the organiser for providing duff information.

And a Route with one point per routesheet instruction will likely exceed 50 points and so will appear to many GPS users as 'broken' (even though again this is user error  , the GPX provider would get the blame).

Even if one could arrive at a decent 'standard' Route specification, there would be endless discussion about whether points should be placed on, or slightly before, or slightly after, junctions.  All three methods have their adherents, in about equal measures.

No, Routes are a can of worms.  I would issue a single Track file, exactly as described by Greenbank above, with a read_me to explain what it is and how to use it as a template to make your own Route(s - out and back) if you want.  It took me about 6 years to learn this.

You might be right, but audaxers are meant to be self sufficient kind of people and you would hope that they could read simple instructions.

That's more work again but from a track + route you could produce automatically a gpxx or a tcx with a smal script.

[ian_oli]

I am preparing the GPXs for my 300K Rutland Weekend on 6th July and I have a question. Some GPXs or their users get in a twist when the return journey on an out-and-back ride is the same track as the outward journey, so I thought I would create tracks with less than 500 points for each of out and back and put each in a separate GPX file for devices that can only accept one track per file.

However can an expert advise if there are GPSs out there that can only take a single file?

Considering most of the devices we use come from one manufacturer, this variation in what different units can read is a sign of appalling product management but heigh-ho...

[Phil W]

Ian they'll all take more than one file and treat them as different routes / tracks. I switched to a bryton GPS and as such no such limitations as discussed for the Garmins here, not even a 10,000 trackpoints limit.

As for tcx plenty of sites or software for garmin users to do this. I'd just go with a gpx with a track and waypoints for controls.

I have software that converts between all the formats, including routes to tracks and back if you need help.

[ian_oli]

Ian they'll all take more than one file and treat them as different routes / tracks. I switched to a bryton GPS and as such no such limitations as discussed for the Garmins here, not even a 10,000 trackpoints limit.

As for tcx plenty of sites or software for garmin users to do this. I'd just go with a gpx with a track and waypoints for controls.

I have software that converts between all the formats, including routes to tracks and back if you need help.

Thanks - I have no problems with the delivery - it's just the requirements!

As posted up topic, putting the route on RideWithGPX (and other sites, but its the one I use anyway - cos it stores HRM data produced by Garmin's Etrex 30 - unlike Garmin themselves) will allow people to download TCXs etc. and offering the 500 point plus waypoint should cater for most people.