Author Topic: Merged thread: Countdown graphics, Nearside pedestrian figures, etc etc  (Read 12521 times)

.... though, I also found this one (tfl one though I don't think it's london specific).  Looking selectively at section 4.6 it confirms that the set up is indeed that the pedestrian will wait for <max time> unless a gap occurs sooner.  >:(  :-X  ::-)
Thats is an interesting document: I have read section 4.6:
It seems on faster roads they legally have to delay the change to red  when the lead car is too close to the stop line (to avoid panic braking that still results in vehicle crossing stop line at red because amber is a fixed 3 seconds*), but surely it would only  cost a few seconds to let that lead car start to cross the stop line then go amber for following car:  waiting up to a minute for a gap seems nothing to do with  avoiding panic braking and everything to do with reducing delay to traffic at pedestrian expense, but that approx minute is a max so it could be set (much IMO) lower:

Again living streets suggest 30seconds as the absolute maximum...

however, it is not the crossing type's fault IMO:  they just need to set-up crossing controllers better....

*the US uses longer amber times on faster road junctions rather than a fixed amber time in combination with vehicle detection and delaying the change slightly. I think the UK view is that longer amber times encourage amber gambling so it is better to have  a predictable 3 seconds of amber and some fancy processing to delay change by a small amount....

Re: Merged thread: Countdown graphics, Nearside pedestrian figures, etc etc
« Reply #76 on: November 28, 2016, 07:19:52 pm »
From TSRGD 2016 (don't ask!) pt17.1-17.9, p66:
Quote
17.7 When Puffin crossings were first developed in the 1990s, the Department’s
position was that in time, they would come to be seen as the default signal
controlled crossing type. Guidance written at the time included the view that
Puffin crossings were expected to become the most common form of crossing
and that in time crossings with pedestrian signals on the far side of the road
would be withdrawn.
17.8 However, in recent years this view has shifted. Whilst near-side crossings have
become the main form of crossing in most authorities, with the number of
Pelican crossings steadily declining, it is recognised that there will remain some
sites where near-side facilities are unsuitable. Accordingly a far-side option is
still available in TSRGD.
17.9 Sometimes known as Pedex, POTS or ‘one-can’ crossings, this uses the same
sequence as at a junction. The sequence includes a steady amber period for
traffic and a blackout period for pedestrians, and it can be provided with oncrossing
detection or with countdown. However, the two cannot be used
64
together as countdown requires a fixed blackout period. As at all other
crossings, zig-zag markings must be provided.

I don't like the names Pedex or POTS but one-can is amusing.

Quote
17.12 Pedestrian countdown signals are prescribed. The pedestrian countdown
system counts down the blackout period that forms part of the pedestrian phase
at traffic signal junctions. The blackout period is the period immediately after the
steady green figure (known as the 'invitation to cross') when neither the red nor
green figure shows. They may not be illuminated during any other part of the
signal sequence, and the Department will not consider authorising such uses. It
is not a requirement to provide countdown signals at crossings, but is an option
available for local authorities to consider
It does seem odd to me to countdown blackness. It would make more sense to my mind to start the countdown as soon as the green man appears.

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/523916/DfT-circular-01-2016.pdf
The earth is vast and beautiful and contains many miraculous places. (Chekhov)

Re: Merged thread: Countdown graphics, Nearside pedestrian figures, etc etc
« Reply #77 on: November 29, 2016, 09:02:21 pm »
...It does seem odd to me to countdown blackness. It would make more sense to my mind to start the countdown as soon as the green man appears.
I think the idea is that the Green man is the 'invitation to cross' so there should be enough time for anyone starting during the green man to finish before on-road traffic gets a green, the countdown then indicates that crossing is working to those already crossing(is a blackout a blackout or a blown lamp/display?)  and shows time remaining (allowing faster arriving walkers to make their own decisions on whether to start crossing).

Re: Merged thread: Countdown graphics, Nearside pedestrian figures, etc etc
« Reply #78 on: January 24, 2017, 12:59:29 pm »
 I came across a 'one-can' * a few days ago. So they actually do exist.

*Smart farside pedestrian crossing with on crossing detection to extend crossing time as needed up to a maximum.

When standalone(not at a signal controlled junction) Puffin crossings enter fixed time mode due to suspect sensor status: wouldn't it have been better to use flashing amber as the road signal during clearance (blank or red human figure)  rather than present a red signal to traffic on an empty crossing? If the flashing amber  at Pelicans was disrespected (with crossing pedestrians) due to lack of enforcement what will happen at  long reds at  crossings where pedestrians have already crossed?

Really what is needed is a mobile phone app.  Obviously, as you carry your mobile with you, it has a very good idea of your walking speed.  This could be linked by bluetooth to the crossing you are at and between them they could easily compute whether the time remaining is sufficient and your phone would issue a warning if not.  Then it's up to you if you chance it, of course, and the coroner would know too.
Sic transit and all that..

For a reason buried deep in the human brain, people are more willing to stop for a specific but needless signal than to prevent injury to another person (or even themselves).
The earth is vast and beautiful and contains many miraculous places. (Chekhov)

For a reason buried deep in the human brain, people are more willing to stop for a specific but needless signal than to prevent injury to another person (or even themselves).
I hope you're right and what I saw one day at a smart crossing will remain uncommon, but I dunno...

Also, flashing amber would allow the 'emergency' clearance period to equal the normal maximum time allowed for clearance. 

I there  was  a will I presume  flashing amber offences could be dealt with builtinvideo cameras to encourage compliance.

Going through Doncaster center (north bridge) I came across a (farside) Toucan with the amber countdown above the green cycle symbol (in its usual place beside green walking figure):

obviously Doncaster doesn't share TfLs / (the DfTs ?) idea that both the green cycle symbol and countdown display can only be fitted in the one mutually exclusive position beside the green figure (and so forbade the combination) ....

I have a photo somewhere..,