Author Topic: Indian Pacific Wheel Race.  (Read 29124 times)

mattc

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Re: Indian Pacific Wheel Race.
« Reply #275 on: February 07, 2018, 03:11:24 pm »
RAAM tried an option one year where Solo racers had a minimum mandatory time off the bike each day. It wasn't repeated.
I recall reading about this a few years ago - info was a bit scant, but the reversal seemed to come down to the riders that needed less sleep not liking the rule.

There are clearly practical issues to iron out - as detailed in qg's post above. But I'd say almost all of them go away in RAAM, or any event with follow vehicles (such rules work for long-distance goods drivers).

An event with organised stop stations would also find it much easier.

[A little OT: many ultra-runs enforce a MAX break time at feed stations! I think the logic is that tired muscles seize up if you stay still for long... ]
Has never ridden RAAM
---------
No.11  Because of the great host of those who dislike the least appearance of "swank " when they travel the roads and lanes. - From Kuklos' 39 Articles

Re: Indian Pacific Wheel Race.
« Reply #276 on: February 11, 2018, 06:59:12 pm »
TAW has introduced mandatory rest stops for this year, from https://www.transatlanticway.com/rules/
Quote
two new rules for 2018

11. All riders must take a mandatory continuous 3 hour stop in every 24 hour period. Excluding the first 24hr and last 24hrs of your race.

12. All riders need to light up like Christmas trees during darkness hours. and display some form of hi-vi during the day and reflective gear at night ( helmets, tape, bags, jerseys, bands, vests, flags, anything at all that improves your chances of being seen. make an effort.)

Will be interesting to see how that works out, but obviously the terrain is somewhat different to IPWR with more opportunities for shelter and fewer dingos.
“That slope may look insignificant, but it's going to be my destiny" - Fitzcarraldo

Karla

  • car(e) free
    • Lost Byway - around the world by bike
Re: Indian Pacific Wheel Race.
« Reply #277 on: February 11, 2018, 07:10:41 pm »
That second rule makes me want to cry.  Just how ambiguous and nonspecific can you get?!

LittleWheelsandBig

  • Whimsy Rider
Wheel meet again, don't know where, don't know when...

quixoticgeek

  • Mostly Harmless
Re: Indian Pacific Wheel Race.
« Reply #279 on: February 11, 2018, 07:49:16 pm »
That second rule makes me want to cry.  Just how ambiguous and nonspecific can you get?!

I know right... My Christmas tree had no lights this year... If you're going to have a rule, be specific and direct. No ambiguity...

J
--
Beer, bikes, and backpacking
http://b.42q.eu/

Re: Indian Pacific Wheel Race.
« Reply #280 on: February 12, 2018, 01:12:04 pm »
Adrian means well but his rules are not thought through and amount to victim blaming. They implicitly agree with the view that riders in other events have been hit by cars because they were too tired and/or inadequately lit. There's no evidence whatsoever for either. But accepting those arguments takes the responsibility off the drivers.

quixoticgeek

  • Mostly Harmless
Re: Indian Pacific Wheel Race.
« Reply #281 on: February 12, 2018, 01:22:15 pm »
Adrian means well but his rules are not thought through and amount to victim blaming. They implicitly agree with the view that riders in other events have been hit by cars because they were too tired and/or inadequately lit. There's no evidence whatsoever for either. But accepting those arguments takes the responsibility off the drivers.

Exceedingly well put.

Given that a rider legally only has to have front/rear lights, front/rear reflectors, and pedal reflectors. And a driver should be over taking giving reasonable clearance (≥1.5m), there is no way that this should be the fault of the rider. No matter how tired and spaced out a rider is. If a driver can't see a rider in these conditions, then the driver is either going to fast, not paying enough attention, or needs their vision checked.

I object to the victim blaming nature of race rules that mandate specific lighting arrangements. It's as if the solution to gun violence was to mandate everyone wears a bullet proof vest.

I've entered an ultra race that has very similar (almost cut and paste) rules on lighting to those of the IPWR, even tho they technically contravene local traffic law for the country the race is in. I don't like the rules, but I want to do the race, so I'll play by the letter of them, have the rear of the bike in christmas tree mode, and be done with it, but I'm not exactly eager to do so and will remove all the excess bits after the race is over.

J
--
Beer, bikes, and backpacking
http://b.42q.eu/

Re: Indian Pacific Wheel Race.
« Reply #282 on: February 12, 2018, 01:39:54 pm »
Those rules need proofreading; "registered paris".

Nothing in them rules out recumbents, which surprised me.

I understand the intention of the lighting rules, however they are very badly written.
Asking for two independent front and rear lights, plus some form of reflectors fitted either to the bike or the rider would be relatively reasonable. Pretty similar to PBP rules, I think.
<i>Marmite slave</i>

mmmmartin

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Re: Indian Pacific Wheel Race.
« Reply #283 on: February 12, 2018, 01:58:23 pm »
Pretty similar to PBP rules, I think.
PBP wanted everyone to have a high viz gilet. So it gave everyone a high viz gilet. A simple answer. Merely saying "make an effort" isn't really enough. Nor, I suspect, would it stand up in court as proof of having taken "reasonable care".
Besides, it wouldn't be audacious if success were guaranteed.

quixoticgeek

  • Mostly Harmless
Re: Indian Pacific Wheel Race.
« Reply #284 on: February 12, 2018, 02:05:55 pm »
Those rules need proofreading; "registered paris".

Nothing in them rules out recumbents, which surprised me.

I understand the intention of the lighting rules, however they are very badly written.
Asking for two independent front and rear lights, plus some form of reflectors fitted either to the bike or the rider would be relatively reasonable. Pretty similar to PBP rules, I think.

Thing with PBP is that France has different rules to the rest of Europe on what is needed for cycling. As well as prohibiting headphones (grumble argh, fnnng), they also require you to wear a hivi vest when cycling outside urban areas in the dark or in poor visibility. So for PBP everyone needs a hivi top, as well as any other lighty stuffs.

Pretty similar to PBP rules, I think.
PBP wanted everyone to have a high viz gilet. So it gave everyone a high viz gilet. A simple answer. Merely saying "make an effort" isn't really enough. Nor, I suspect, would it stand up in court as proof of having taken "reasonable care".

This is a really good way of doing it. If you are going to mandate specific light/reflect stuff, then provide it as part of the entry.

J
--
Beer, bikes, and backpacking
http://b.42q.eu/

LittleWheelsandBig

  • Whimsy Rider
Re: Indian Pacific Wheel Race.
« Reply #285 on: February 12, 2018, 02:13:53 pm »
PBP did it because French road rules require reflective vests to specific EN standards and marked as such. Outside of the EU, nobody could source such reflective vests. Some folk from the EU wore their own reflective vests, rather than the (rather too warm) PBP vest.

RUSA and Audax Oz require reflective vests but don't mandate a specific national standard. That allows riders to use something cooler and smaller than the standard roadworker vest.
Wheel meet again, don't know where, don't know when...

mattc

  • n.b. have grown beard since photo taken
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Re: Indian Pacific Wheel Race.
« Reply #286 on: February 12, 2018, 02:17:26 pm »
AUK just tells riders to stick to the law. I don't see why any organiser needs to do anything more than that.

(The only even vaguely feasible excuse for extra rules is organiser insurance - but I know damn well that isn't the reason that most helmet rules exist for events. )
Has never ridden RAAM
---------
No.11  Because of the great host of those who dislike the least appearance of "swank " when they travel the roads and lanes. - From Kuklos' 39 Articles

Re: Indian Pacific Wheel Race.
« Reply #287 on: February 12, 2018, 03:41:26 pm »
Regardless whether or not a particular race requires lights, it would appear to be in the selfish interest of the racer to be lit up like a 'Christmas Tree'.

Of course drivers are usually the responsible party when cyclists are hit, but it is pretty difficult to argue the toss from the grave.

mmmmartin

  • BPB 1/1: PBP 0/1
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Re: Indian Pacific Wheel Race.
« Reply #288 on: February 12, 2018, 04:02:38 pm »
You are of course correct. Although it's easier to be lit up like a Christmas tree for one night in England than it is for several days across a desert with nothing and nowhere to buy more batteries for the rear lights.
Besides, it wouldn't be audacious if success were guaranteed.

Re: Indian Pacific Wheel Race.
« Reply #289 on: February 12, 2018, 04:20:39 pm »
True, but any of these are used by Rando riders over here:

https://www.cyclingabout.com/dynamo-hub-recommendations-for-bicycle-touring/

Karla

  • car(e) free
    • Lost Byway - around the world by bike
Re: Indian Pacific Wheel Race.
« Reply #290 on: February 12, 2018, 04:22:27 pm »
I don't think those constitute Christmas trees.  My view of what is a Christmas tree is better than your view.  So there.

Re: Indian Pacific Wheel Race.
« Reply #291 on: February 12, 2018, 06:17:54 pm »
The IPWR rules are fine.  When I rode it, my lighting and reflector setup would have complied with them.  The only think I didn't have was the reflective gilet. Australian, like UK, law doesn't require it, but it's not a bad idea to have one.  And if everyone is carrying one then there's no bulk penalty - I wouldn't have a problem with taking one.  And it's easy enough to have enough power for decent lighting across the Nullarbor without having to use a dynamo.  Dynamos are only necessary for the off-road ultras like Tour Divide when you need high-powered lighting.

It's the TAW rules that I was referring to. 

dim

Re: Indian Pacific Wheel Race.
« Reply #292 on: February 12, 2018, 07:49:25 pm »
Regardless whether or not a particular race requires lights, it would appear to be in the selfish interest of the racer to be lit up like a 'Christmas Tree'.

Of course drivers are usually the responsible party when cyclists are hit, but it is pretty difficult to argue the toss from the grave.

perhaps they are saying that you should not use a black jacket at night and rather use something like the new Proviz REFLECT360 CRS jackets? ... hi viz for day, and it turns super bright at night:
https://www.provizsports.com/en-gb/reflect360-crs-mens-cycling-jacket.html

daytime:


and night time:



“No great mind has ever existed without a touch of madness.” - Aristotle

mmmmartin

  • BPB 1/1: PBP 0/1
    • FNRttC
Re: Indian Pacific Wheel Race.
« Reply #293 on: February 12, 2018, 07:52:29 pm »
They're very sweaty according to owners to whom I have spoken.

The PBP gilet is fine in decent weather but when things get a bit Norwegian I use an Endura windproof gilet with an Altura cycling-specific hood sewn to it.
Besides, it wouldn't be audacious if success were guaranteed.

Re: Indian Pacific Wheel Race.
« Reply #294 on: February 12, 2018, 07:55:38 pm »
I discovered during a thunderstorm last year (not on IndyPac) that a problem with (PBP-style) high-viz gilets worn over the top of a waterproof is that, if it really starts raining, they can cause your waterproof to fail by holding a layer of water on its surface.   

mmmmartin

  • BPB 1/1: PBP 0/1
    • FNRttC
Re: Indian Pacific Wheel Race.
« Reply #295 on: February 12, 2018, 07:59:38 pm »
Yes, that's a real problem. You can sort of stop it by treating the gilet with the Paramo waterproofing. You need to wash it first in the tech wash then wash it in the waterproofing and after it is important to tumble dry it, the heat kind of melts the waterproofing into the fabric. Not perfect but does make a real difference.
Besides, it wouldn't be audacious if success were guaranteed.

mattc

  • n.b. have grown beard since photo taken
    • Didcot Audaxes
Re: Indian Pacific Wheel Race.
« Reply #296 on: February 12, 2018, 10:56:13 pm »
Regardless whether or not a particular race requires lights, it would appear to be in the selfish interest of the racer to be lit up like a 'Christmas Tree'.

Of course drivers are usually the responsible party when cyclists are hit, but it is pretty difficult to argue the toss from the grave.
You can wear whatever you think makes you safe; but please don't tell me what to wear, or how to equip/ride my bike.

Not hurting others and complying with the law suits me fine,  thanks.

[oops too late - you like to force people to wear helmets. I almost forgot.]
Has never ridden RAAM
---------
No.11  Because of the great host of those who dislike the least appearance of "swank " when they travel the roads and lanes. - From Kuklos' 39 Articles

Re: Indian Pacific Wheel Race.
« Reply #297 on: February 12, 2018, 11:57:02 pm »
Silly!

C-3PO

  • Human-cyborg relations
Re: Indian Pacific Wheel Race.
« Reply #298 on: February 13, 2018, 01:28:53 am »
Silly!

That remark is non-excellent.

Please remain excellent!

Re: Indian Pacific Wheel Race.
« Reply #299 on: February 13, 2018, 09:07:08 am »
The type of jacket as available at PBP can even be a safety hazard. It's that hot that on a warm night the risk of overheating is serious. And overheating leads to drowsiness and falling asleep.
That's why I had a seperate non windstopper gilet at PBP (with the apropriate EN markings).