Author Topic: Igaro D1 USB Dynamo Power Converter  (Read 59094 times)

Re: Igaro D1 USB Dynamo Power Converter
« Reply #75 on: December 07, 2016, 06:40:07 pm »
Could the alloy bar go through this 'plug' instead, then make a lip and fix it to the bottom of the mud guard?

The D1 has a small heat capacity hence some form of transfer ability is needed should the protection circuit cut in.

Andrew

Re: Igaro D1 USB Dynamo Power Converter
« Reply #76 on: December 07, 2016, 06:52:49 pm »
Why does it have to dissipate so much heat anyway?  Are you using a zener shunt for over-voltage protection, rather than crowbarring the dynamo?

It doesn't for everyday riding but an 'edge condition' such as a 60kph downhill section for several minutes without a load will trigger the protection. The D1 is small and doesn't have much volumetric heat capacity. Speed and subsequent air flow will take what is generated away but hidden up the fork would undo that.

Re: Igaro D1 USB Dynamo Power Converter
« Reply #77 on: December 07, 2016, 06:59:23 pm »
Reminder: Today is the final day for codes, after that you have two further days to use it.

Regards, Andrew

Re: Igaro D1 USB Dynamo Power Converter
« Reply #78 on: December 08, 2016, 09:43:35 am »
What options would you recommend for wiring the D1 in conjunction with a light?
I realise that the unit should be wiring in parallel with the light, but was wanting to know what solutions people had found to do this neatly.

I use an Exposure Revo light which I move between two bikes (each bike is equipped with it's own dynamo wheel and cable for the light).
It would be good to have the option to easily move the D1 between bikes. I assume soldering and heat shrinking a branch off the main light cable would be the way to go. I was thinking about the option of getting some kind of discreet secure inline cable connector to attach the D1. The ones that B&M use on the E-WERK look good, but haven't been able to find these or similar as a loose component. Does anybody know of anything suitable?

Question for Andrew: From the photos it looks like two wires exit the D1. The one then terminates at a heatshrinked "component". Am I correct in assuming that this is not a socket for a light output?

You could look at these: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/5-pairs-waterproof-IP68-LED-Connector-DC-5-5-x-2-1mm-Male-Female-jack-adapter/2041433204.html

Thanks, that is exactly the kind of thing I was looking for.

Re: Igaro D1 USB Dynamo Power Converter
« Reply #79 on: December 08, 2016, 10:39:24 am »
No further code requests unless you'd put you name down on the thread earlier and didn't realise you had to PM for the code. Apologies to those that missed it.

Another 10 units are leaving today so most orders have been dispatched.

Looking forward to the reviews.  :thumbsup:

Regards, Andrew

Re: Igaro D1 USB Dynamo Power Converter
« Reply #80 on: December 08, 2016, 03:31:49 pm »
Looking forward to the reviews.  :thumbsup:
Me too.

I figured that waiting was a more economical way of satisfying curiosity than spending £45, given that I've got an eWerk that only sees light duty (touring only, for phone, kindle, small Anker, and maybe the headtorch)

KieronY

  • N007
Re: Igaro D1 USB Dynamo Power Converter
« Reply #81 on: December 09, 2016, 10:07:39 am »
Igaro D1 Review

The Igaro D1 was bought to replace a Lightcharge USB charger I've been using on Audax events of 300km and over for the last 4 years. Recently the Lightcharge has become unreliable - the switch has become difficult to operate and the wiring needs attention on a regular basis. I use an old Son 28 hub to power a B & M Cyo and Secula rear light. USB charging is limited to recharging a Sigma Rox 10 GPS and occasionally an Anker 5000mAh cache battery.

Ordering and Delivery

The Igaro D1 was ordered on a Friday afternoon and the package arrived Royal Mail “Signed For" on Tuesday morning.


Package with business card for size comparison.


Box unpacked

Inside the box you have the Igaro D1 unit; a couple of spare spade connectors (unused); two mounts (unused at the moment - the double sided tape was a bit feeble, and I thought they were unnecessary); two zip ties (unused - used my own more robust zip ties); FAQ sheet (unread as I'd already read the FAQs online); installation instructions .

Installation

This really was very simple. I detached the B & M Cyo spade connectors from the Son 28 hub and attached to the piggyback connectors of the Igaro D1. The piggyback spade connectors were then connected to Son 28 hub: this, for me, was a minor issue as fitting was tight and difficult to secure, eventually needing pliers to force down the connectors onto the hub's spades - I can imagine this being a bit frustrating if an inner tube change is required on a cold, wet night.



The cable of the Igaro D1 was then threaded and secured around the fork and the main Igaro unit zip tied to the side of the head tube. The USB socket was fixed to the underside of the handlebars.





Testing

To test the unit I set off on my usual commute from Blackheath to Hackney Downs with my GPS switched on and 50% charged. Out on the road, once I began rolling, charging started pretty much instantaneously with no appreciable drag.

The walk through the Greenwich foot tunnel showed me charging didn't take place at normal walking pace and I later determined that it only kicked in at around 10km/h - not a problem as far as I'm concerned. Forty minutes and 13km later, at Hackney Downs, my unit was showing it was 80% charged.

Seven kilometres into the return journey the GPS was nearly fully charged. As it was getting dark I tested the unit in conjunction with front and rear dynamo lights; this increased drag but lights worked perfectly and the GPS unit showed it was still drawing power from the dynamo. I reached home with the GPS showing it had retained its 100% charge.

Conclusions

The Igaro D1 is a very compact and simple device that does exactly what it's supposed to. The unit is well constructed and finished and coming with a lifetime user guarantee promises many years of trouble free charging.

My reservations are the fact that the USB socket is potentially vulnerable to water penetration (I'll probably try to remedy this with a bit off Gorilla Tape stuck over the end when not in use) and the fiddliness of fitting the piggyback spade connectors which could be problematic if a tube change is needed on the road at night - as someone who routinely uses back-up battery lighting and a cache battery I don't see this as a deal breaker. I will also be paying attention to how hot the unit gets and will make adjustments to its mounting if necessary.

I'll update this review as and when I have anything additional to add.

citoyen

  • Cat 6 Racer
Re: Igaro D1 USB Dynamo Power Converter
« Reply #82 on: December 09, 2016, 11:27:51 am »
Forty minutes and 13km later, at Hackney Downs, my unit was showing it was 80% charged.
...
As it was getting dark I tested the unit in conjunction with front and rear dynamo lights; this increased drag but lights worked perfectly and the GPS unit showed it was still drawing power from the dynamo.

Excellent! Out of interest, what GPS do you use?

KieronY

  • N007
Re: Igaro D1 USB Dynamo Power Converter
« Reply #83 on: December 09, 2016, 01:31:02 pm »
Forty minutes and 13km later, at Hackney Downs, my unit was showing it was 80% charged.
...
As it was getting dark I tested the unit in conjunction with front and rear dynamo lights; this increased drag but lights worked perfectly and the GPS unit showed it was still drawing power from the dynamo.

Excellent! Out of interest, what GPS do you use?

I'm using a Sigma Rox 10 which only uses a breadcrumb trail for navigation.

Re: Igaro D1 USB Dynamo Power Converter
« Reply #84 on: December 09, 2016, 01:48:54 pm »


the fiddliness of fitting the piggyback spade connectors which could be problematic if a tube change is needed on the road at night

I'm planning on wiring my Igaro piggybacked off the lamp input spades to prevent any fiddlyness with wheel removal,  in my case it will also mean only one set of wires to be run up the fork leg, though I realise in your case with the low mounted lamp,  you won't have that issue. 

All sounds good though, 

I'll hopefully get time to fit mine this weekend. 

Eddington: 110 Miles

simonp

  • Omnomnomnipotent.
Re: Igaro D1 USB Dynamo Power Converter
« Reply #85 on: December 09, 2016, 02:06:30 pm »
Think this is what I want for Christmas.

Looks like a great product.

Re: Igaro D1 USB Dynamo Power Converter
« Reply #86 on: December 09, 2016, 02:12:58 pm »
Igaro D1 Review

The Igaro D1 was bought to replace ...


Excellent feedback. Re your points:-

1. USB wasn't designed for outdoor usage, the pins are close together and will quickly suffer electrolysis. For this reason the USB plug is designed to drain water (hence the tiny gap around it) and is replaceable at little cost to customers. We can also supply replacement ports for DIY (very easy to replace) or for longer tours. If we were to include a cover it would only be waterproof when the unit wasn't being used. If we were to fix the port into the device (which would make the D1 body bigger) then the unit would have to be thrown when the USB port eventually fails. This is a big problem with our competitors but one users don't immediately pick up on.

2. The D1 monitors the stability of the supply. The dynamo frequency < 10kph for your wheel size/device was determined to be too low and hence it shut off. This is to prevent potential software lockup (smartphones, powerbanks) and worst case damage to the USB device, some of which do not enjoy rapid power cycles.

3. The 3M stickers are as good as it gets but the small surface area doesn't help. As you say, discard if not required.

Thanks for your feedback and I'm glad it's working well for you. Even better that it continues to work with lights as that's a popular question. Perhaps you can post the model of the lights and GPS unit?

Regards, Andrew

Edit: I see you've specified the GPS unit as I was typing. How about the front and rear lights?

KieronY

  • N007
Re: Igaro D1 USB Dynamo Power Converter
« Reply #87 on: December 09, 2016, 03:34:05 pm »
Perhaps you can post the model of the lights and GPS unit?

Hi Andrew,

Thanks again for the great offer you have provided yacf users.

All of the information about the kit I use is in the first paragraph. I think the Cyo headlight I use is the 60 Lux version bought in 2010 and the SON hub is also a 2009/2010 model.

Kieron


Re: Igaro D1 USB Dynamo Power Converter
« Reply #88 on: December 09, 2016, 03:36:41 pm »
Ah those stickers!
Couldn't get the backing paper off until I'd completely ruined the adhesive with my sticky fingers on the other side ! :facepalm:

The zip ties are too short.  My head tube (for a 1-1/8" threadless) has a circumference of ~120mm, so 140mm zip tie will not be enough to attach anything to it.  Modern tapered head tubes are likely to be bigger still.

Those are not deal breakers though!

I've just been for a short test ride comparing the charging current to my Moto G3 phone running the Ampere app which measures the instantaneous net charging current.

Unfortunately although I carefully turned off wi-fi, mobile data, GPS, bluetooth, put it in Flight mode, what I forgot was the screen adaptive brightness, so the figures probably fluctated as I went in and out of shade.  However.... the Luxos U seemed to be giving the phone about 670mA (mostly +/- 20mA) whereas the Igaro D1 fluctuated between around 100mA and 340mA.  The correlation with speed was quite weak - some of the highest readings were when I was going quite slowly !

Obviously the cache battery of the Luxos would be expected to keep things steadier, and it's tough (well nigh impossible) to keep it charged when the lights are on, whereas switching the lights on in parallel with the Igaro, didn't make any noticeable difference to the readings.  As this was in daylight there was no way of checking if it dimmed the lights.

More testing to be done, but so far I'm a little underwhelmed.


 

Re: Igaro D1 USB Dynamo Power Converter
« Reply #89 on: December 09, 2016, 04:15:20 pm »
You'll want to measure the real current using a multimeter. Another option (I tend to find the voltage isn't accurate but current is ok) is http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/USB-Charger-Doctor-Voltage-Current-Meter-Mobile-Battery-Tester-Power-Detector-T2-/271523165472

The D1 doesn't have a cache so it's not possible to compare it directly but 100mA-340mA isn't normal. PM'd you with some ideas.

Kim

  • Timelord
Re: Igaro D1 USB Dynamo Power Converter
« Reply #90 on: December 09, 2016, 05:03:39 pm »
You'll want to measure the real current using a multimeter. Another option (I tend to find the voltage isn't accurate but current is ok) is http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/USB-Charger-Doctor-Voltage-Current-Meter-Mobile-Battery-Tester-Power-Detector-T2-/271523165472

This seems like a good time to re-recommend this: http://www.portablepowersupplies.co.uk/portapow-dual-usb-power-monitor-v3/

Instantaneous voltage and current (which are in broad agreement with my other test equipment, unlike the cheap eBay ones), and a useful running total of charge delivered.
Careful, Kim. Your sarcasm's showing...

Re: Igaro D1 USB Dynamo Power Converter
« Reply #91 on: December 09, 2016, 05:18:44 pm »
I detached the B & M Cyo spade connectors from the Son 28 hub and attached to the piggyback connectors of the Igaro D1. The piggyback spade connectors were then connected to Son 28 hub: this, for me, was a minor issue as fitting was tight and difficult to secure, eventually needing pliers to force down the connectors onto the hub's spades - I can imagine this being a bit frustrating if an inner tube change is required on a cold, wet night.
With my eWerk, rather than trying to plug the light connectors onto the piggyback spades at the hub, I unplug the light connectors from the hub, plug them into the charger piggyback spades away from the hub, then plug the combined connectors into the hub.

Try it.

Re: Igaro D1 USB Dynamo Power Converter
« Reply #92 on: December 09, 2016, 05:26:36 pm »
You'll want to measure the real current using a multimeter. Another option (I tend to find the voltage isn't accurate but current is ok) is http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/USB-Charger-Doctor-Voltage-Current-Meter-Mobile-Battery-Tester-Power-Detector-T2-/271523165472

The D1 doesn't have a cache so it's not possible to compare it directly but 100mA-340mA isn't normal. PM'd you with some ideas.
Bear in mind the numbers I quoted from the app are (supposedly) the net values going to the battery. The discharge rate when not connected, just running the OS and the screen (quite bright as it was outdoors), was around 250mA so that would have to be added to give a more realistic figure coming out of the Igaro.

I was going to say stuff buying a multimeter, I'm not fussed about the actual current values, only in comparing how fast the phone gets charged, but then I saw the price on the one you linked  :o so duly ordered, and will report back (in addition to trying the ideas you pm'd)

Re: Igaro D1 USB Dynamo Power Converter
« Reply #93 on: December 09, 2016, 06:32:35 pm »
Sorry I misread the net. Assuming the App is accurate to some degree then that makes

Gross: 350 - 590mA

3W/5V = 600mA

Plus conversion efficiency penalty (0.84-0.9) places output into the 500mA region which matches your range.  :thumbsup:

The luxos can do more temporarily while it's cache discharges.

Re: Igaro D1 USB Dynamo Power Converter
« Reply #94 on: December 09, 2016, 08:12:32 pm »
Sorry I misread the net. Assuming the App is accurate to some degree then that makes

Gross: 350 - 590mA

3W/5V = 600mA

Plus conversion efficiency penalty (0.84-0.9) places output into the 500mA region which matches your range.  :thumbsup:

The luxos can do more temporarily while it's cache discharges.
ISTR that these dynamos are only a nominal 3W at something like 15kph.  I may be mis-remembering it, but aren't they actually 1A constant current and variable voltage depending on speed ?  Kim will be along in a while to correct me if I've got that wrong. ;D

Averaging 22kph, and charging only the phone, the cache on the Luxos never seems to discharge to the threshold level at which it cuts the USB power - which, if the numbers from the app are correct suggests it's actually getting nearer to 5W ?    Whereas the Igaro is somehow 'throttled' so that it can only take a maximum of the nominal 3 W however much the dynamo is capable of at a given speed?


Re: Igaro D1 USB Dynamo Power Converter
« Reply #95 on: December 09, 2016, 08:27:04 pm »

ISTR that these dynamos are only a nominal 3W at something like 15kph.  I may be mis-remembering it, but aren't they actually 1A constant current and variable voltage depending on speed ?  Kim will be along in a while to correct me if I've got that wrong. ;D

Averaging 22kph, and charging only the phone, the cache on the Luxos never seems to discharge to the threshold level at which it cuts the USB power - which, if the numbers from the app are correct suggests it's actually getting nearer to 5W ?    Whereas the Igaro is somehow 'throttled' so that it can only take a maximum of the nominal 3 W however much the dynamo is capable of at a given speed?

OK I didn't see your speed anywhere, assumed it was around 15kph.

So this could be the smartphone setting the current level based on when it initially received power (to the 500mA USB2 spec). There's no way around it other than adding a passthrough power bank or plugging in at 22kph. Unfortunately USB specification does not cater for re-detection of power supply current limits. I wrote about this phenomenon on the thorn cycles forum.

"most USB devices that accept high current input will park the current at a determined level. They do this by increasing load and testing the voltage drop on power on to determine what power level can be drawn (i.e USBv1 is 100mA, USBv2 usually 500mA-1A, power adapter 1.5-2A). If I take the Sony M4 Aqua for example (using an Igaro D1) the input current is 0.74A. It doesn't matter if I go 60mph, it will remain 0.74A. If I plug the same phone into a wall charger it'll take 1.5A. Why? because it "asked" for 1.5A and the voltage drop was too low, so it switched to 0.74A and stuck at that level. Most phones and USB powerbanks will do this - it's a requirement of being able to charge from USB sources of different current levels."

Re: Igaro D1 USB Dynamo Power Converter
« Reply #96 on: December 10, 2016, 08:41:44 am »
Typo/style suggestion in one of those FAQs ...

Quote
How theftproof is the D1 / should I remove or risk it?

The D1 is very small and discrete and it's mounted in an unsuspecting place (not the top tube or side of bike) where it's unlikely to be noticed. Most dynamo hub power converters are mistaking as a powerbank but the D1 is obviously too small to be one. These two points reduce the exposure of the D1 being stolen however it is up to you to weigh up the risk.

discreet
unobtrusive
can be mistaken for
likelihood

Also: descent is spelled with an 's', and "currently used only by use for quality assurance" => currently only used for quality assurance.
Quote from: tiermat
that's not science, it's semantics.

Re: Igaro D1 USB Dynamo Power Converter
« Reply #97 on: December 10, 2016, 10:43:11 am »
OK I didn't see your speed anywhere, assumed it was around 15kph.
There are lot of folks around here who can maintain an average on the road around 20kph for very long periods of time. 
It's pretty much a necessity for audax rides where the maximum time allowed (including stops for food/sleep) is often based on 15kph.
Quote
  this could be the smartphone setting the current level based on when it initially received power (to the 500mA USB2 spec). There's no way around it other than adding a passthrough power bank or plugging in at 22kph. Unfortunately USB specification does not cater for re-detection of power supply current limits.
Am I understanding this right then, that if I put a switch between phone and Igaro, and only connected the circuit when I was moving at a fair speed then it would negotiate a significantly greater current?

Re: Igaro D1 USB Dynamo Power Converter
« Reply #98 on: December 10, 2016, 11:51:29 am »
USB power 'negotiation' is tricky. It may do this but I wouldn't investigate it until you have more accurate current readings.

Smartphones and powerbanks may choose current based on;

1. USB data (where the chip indicates how much power it can deliver via software)
2. shorting out the data pins, or using varying levels of resistance (mostly older Apple devices, some Sony)
3. fast voltage drop detection
4. battery voltage and temperature

A switch would only help with (3) while a small powerbank with passthrough such as the Limefuel l60x would be a better bet.

If you take 5W for USB at higher speed you leave nothing for lights. When you turn them on some lights will dim (if they are resistive, cheaper B&M lights etc) others may turn off, or the D1 could reset first (more likely). USB specification doesn't cater for volatile power availability so what will will happen is up to the device.

Worth trying, make some steam and then connect the D1 USB to your micro USB (you can leave them loosely fitted and push together while riding).

I have assumed something, the power to your phone (the light and android charging icon, not the App) are stable once the D1 enables power? They shouldn't be cycling on/off.

Re: Igaro D1 USB Dynamo Power Converter
« Reply #99 on: December 10, 2016, 01:37:32 pm »
I have assumed something, the power to your phone (the light and android charging icon, not the App) are stable once the D1 enables power?
  Correct.