Author Topic: Building - where to start?  (Read 4273 times)

mr ben

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Building - where to start?
« on: January 07, 2017, 11:04:16 pm »
Got myself a pompino frameset to build up. This will be a steep learning curve but I'm looking forward to the mechanical knowledge I will (be forced to) acquire during the process, and hope this will help with maintenance of my other steeds.

Where should I start? I have been looking at headsets as I figured that would enable me to joint the two components I currently have together...but would I be better starting with wheels (I'm planning on building them too)? Obviously some bits dictate others so should be done in a certain order...

And which bits are most worth spending money on (given that 'all of them' is not a possible answer)?
I sat in my tent this evening - a small green hole - and pondered on my short stature, love of food and ale, hairy feet and the unlikeliness of being an adventurer.

Re: Building - where to start?
« Reply #1 on: January 08, 2017, 12:24:06 am »
I'd get the bottom bracket in first, and then check the chainline.
If it ain't broke, fix it 'til it is...

Pingu

  • Put away those fiery biscuits!
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    • the Igloo
Re: Building - where to start?
« Reply #2 on: January 08, 2017, 12:28:39 am »
I seem to remember from the dim and distant past that the hardest bit of my Pompino build was getting the correct width rear hub. After that it was a matter of getting the correct bottom bracket for a a good chain line.

Re: Building - where to start?
« Reply #3 on: January 08, 2017, 01:27:14 am »
I will lend a hand or tools (headset press) if it helps. I'd also tend to start with bottom bracket, unless you've got a work stand that lets you clamp the bike using the forks and resting on the bb (elite race workstand type), in which case getting the forks on temporarily let's you set up the frame for building really easily.

I think the pompano is a 1 1/8 external headset - on one usually have fsa orbit max available at low prices and they work really well.

Wheelbuilding has become a bit of a hobby and I've a pile of hubs waiting for rims here now! Spa sell the Formula and Zenith hubs that can both do 120mm rear spacing and both look like Novatec in drag. Cycle clinic adds Miche and  Novatec. I'd probably go Miche or Novatec on this. Unless you're very heavy 32 spoke and choose a nice rim. Hours of fun.

What colour frame and what colour hubs, rims etc? The important stuff...

Mike


zigzag

  • unfuckwithable
Re: Building - where to start?
« Reply #4 on: January 08, 2017, 10:21:51 am »
you might consider hubs with the allen bolts, so that you don't need to carry a heavy 15mm spanner.

fd3

Re: Building - where to start?
« Reply #5 on: January 08, 2017, 10:22:17 am »
When I built mine (which was also my first build) I got the lbs to do the headset/forks and sort the BB for the chainline.  I know you can look up catalogues for sizes and spaces, but they often are out and you can end up wasting lots of time and cash when the lbs can sort it quickly and cheaply. 
Then again I had a different challenge than you as I have a 135 spaced pompano, so had one type of hub to match the chainline to, as opposed to the other way round which is your 120 spaced setup.

mr ben

  • Some routes may be arduous.
    • ramblings and randonees
Re: Building - where to start?
« Reply #6 on: January 09, 2017, 07:17:57 pm »
Thanks all for your input; BB first then. I am lucky enough to have a community workshop nearby with proper tools, stands and a wheel jig.

It's all a bit overwhelming but nicely 'first principles'!

Mike I may pick your brains later, I have got Roger Musson's wheelbuilding book which seems a good place to start. My frame is 'raw' (grey) so I can go wild with colour I guess!
I sat in my tent this evening - a small green hole - and pondered on my short stature, love of food and ale, hairy feet and the unlikeliness of being an adventurer.

Re: Building - where to start?
« Reply #7 on: January 09, 2017, 07:24:52 pm »
There's a useful guide to measuring chainline here - http://www.63xc.com/mattc/setup2.htm

Karla

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Re: Building - where to start?
« Reply #8 on: January 09, 2017, 07:52:37 pm »
Where to spend the money?  Get a good chainring and sprocket.  If you get cheap ones that are non-round or flexy, the chain will graunch and is more likely to come off.

Re: Building - where to start?
« Reply #9 on: January 12, 2017, 04:31:42 pm »
Where to spend the money?  Get a good chainring and sprocket.  If you get cheap ones that are non-round or flexy, the chain will graunch and is more likely to come off.

Agreed. Plus it keeps drivetrain noise down.

mr ben

  • Some routes may be arduous.
    • ramblings and randonees
Re: Building - where to start?
« Reply #10 on: January 12, 2017, 09:46:32 pm »
Re chainring and sprocket - what (brand?) is 'good'?
I sat in my tent this evening - a small green hole - and pondered on my short stature, love of food and ale, hairy feet and the unlikeliness of being an adventurer.

Re: Building - where to start?
« Reply #11 on: January 12, 2017, 10:27:32 pm »
I did the headset first on my Pompino - as you say, to "join the two bits together". BB is significant and needs doing early. Wheels are something of an independent job; you can build them at any time up to when you're ready to put them in.

Especially if you have a workstand, the order of adding bars/stem, seat/post and chainset/transmission is not that important. Overall it's not that significant, but you need bars to fit brake levers and connect brakes, and you need wheels in to finish the transmission. If fitting mudguards, do this before or with the wheels (you'll need the wheels in to adjust the guards).

Wheel building is probably the most complex thing for a novice. Presumably the community workshop comes with free expert advice from people there?

mr ben

  • Some routes may be arduous.
    • ramblings and randonees
Re: Building - where to start?
« Reply #12 on: January 13, 2017, 12:50:31 pm »
Thanks drossall.  Yes the workshop has experienced volunteers.
I sat in my tent this evening - a small green hole - and pondered on my short stature, love of food and ale, hairy feet and the unlikeliness of being an adventurer.

Tim Hall

  • I want to eat the fleeting shade of your lashes
Re: Building - where to start?
« Reply #13 on: January 13, 2017, 01:05:05 pm »
Re chainring and sprocket - what (brand?) is 'good'?

EAI make nice hard wearing round sprockets. Hubjub stock them.    I'll see if I can remember which chainset/chain ring I've got.
There are two ways you can get exercise out of a bicycle: you can
"overhaul" it, or you can ride it.  (Jerome K Jerome)

Tim Hall

  • I want to eat the fleeting shade of your lashes
Re: Building - where to start?
« Reply #14 on: January 13, 2017, 02:28:41 pm »
And digging in an old thread, it seems I used a Miche Express Track chainset. It fits a JIS square taper BB which they claim should be 107mm long.
There are two ways you can get exercise out of a bicycle: you can
"overhaul" it, or you can ride it.  (Jerome K Jerome)

mr ben

  • Some routes may be arduous.
    • ramblings and randonees
Re: Building - where to start?
« Reply #15 on: January 17, 2017, 06:08:18 pm »
Excellent, thanks for the info Tim.
I sat in my tent this evening - a small green hole - and pondered on my short stature, love of food and ale, hairy feet and the unlikeliness of being an adventurer.

Re: Building - where to start?
« Reply #16 on: January 17, 2017, 06:59:15 pm »
I cast around the web for decent sprockets in whatever size I need.  Spa do a huge range of good chainrings, including 1/8th.

Re: Building - where to start?
« Reply #17 on: January 17, 2017, 07:57:47 pm »
I'd get the hubs second, after you've worked out what your frame spacing is (though if it's a raw grey it's probably a V4, so 120mm).  Then you know what your chainline should be, and you can get the cranks and BB to suit.

I used to use EAI cogs but they seem to be hard to get hold of, at least in 3/32".  Have now got Surly and Andel - they both seem just fine though not as nicely finished.

citoyen

  • Cat 6 Racer
Re: Building - where to start?
« Reply #18 on: February 22, 2017, 10:41:53 am »
Seatpost in first, so you've got something to clamp in the workstand.

Doing the headset early to join the bits together is fine in principle, but don't forget you'll also need to have the stem ready to stop the fork falling out (assuming threadless). This means you'll need to know what size stem you require, unless you have an old spare stem you can use as a placeholder.

Don't cut down the steerer until you've finished building and are sure you've got the bar height right. When it comes to cutting down the steerer, an old stem also works fine as a cutting guide.

Re: Building - where to start?
« Reply #19 on: February 22, 2017, 08:47:05 pm »
And which bits are most worth spending money on (given that 'all of them' is not a possible answer)?

Since you will be pedaling at all times:
Crank. chain ring, sprocket and chain. Getting a nice even crank, with as round as chainring as possible on a decent sprocket (EAI) and then a decent chain. My personal favourite is Sugino75,  EAI silverstars and a HKK gold chain.
Next is making sure that you have an even chain line. This will leave your drivetrain smooth and maintenance free for years.

Least important is headset and brake(s).

Gattopardo

  • Lord of the sith
  • Overseaing the building of the death star
Re: Building - where to start?
« Reply #20 on: February 23, 2017, 01:56:16 pm »
I would think that a chain is a chain.  If you have decent round sprokets.  Are you going for fixed fixed or fixed freewheel?

I would also go for an ISO crank and a decent bottom bracket a un55 is a fav as the bracket comes with metal cone instead of plastic.

mr ben

  • Some routes may be arduous.
    • ramblings and randonees
Re: Building - where to start?
« Reply #21 on: February 23, 2017, 05:13:38 pm »
Thanks for your continued advice. Most progress so far is that I've built a front wheel, my first one so feeling quite pleased with myself...until I ride it no doubt!

Good point about the stem citoyen, I wouldn't have thought of that but by luck rather than planning I have got one. I'd also never have thought of getting a seatpost early on for clamping. Voices of experience are most useful!

I haven't got my rear hub yet, leaning towards fixed/fixed but undecided.

There may be a pause while I pay this month's credit card bill!  In other news I saw a guy doing great skids approaching a red light in Leeds centre this morning. Made it look easy!
I sat in my tent this evening - a small green hole - and pondered on my short stature, love of food and ale, hairy feet and the unlikeliness of being an adventurer.

Gattopardo

  • Lord of the sith
  • Overseaing the building of the death star
Re: Building - where to start?
« Reply #22 on: February 23, 2017, 08:30:26 pm »
That feeling of building your own wheel is fucking awesome  :thumbsup:

Check out on one hubs, I rate them highly.  Sealed bearings and are the same as formula/system ex and usually appear for £15 opps not available at the moment.  Then sjs at 25

Re: Building - where to start?
« Reply #23 on: March 08, 2017, 10:02:45 am »
Find a hub, BB and crank combination that will give you correct chainline.  135mm rear spacing can be tricky; hub choice is limited and you may run into chainring/chainstay clearance problems if you don't go for a much bigger chainline than "track" standard.  IIRC On-One had Hollowtech 2 chainline (50mm) in mind with their MTB-derived frames.

You cannot increase chainline at the rear by putting spacers under the sprocket unless it's a freewheel thread with no lockring.  Goldtec hubs give you about 46-47mm with an EAI sprocket, which may just clear the chainstay at the front.  Expect to have the chainring on the inside of a double crank spider, since finding a BB short enough may be impossible.
Never tell me the odds.

Gattopardo

  • Lord of the sith
  • Overseaing the building of the death star