Author Topic: [LEL17] Anyone else going tubeless for LEL?  (Read 8084 times)

[LEL17] Anyone else going tubeless for LEL?
« on: April 05, 2017, 09:34:35 pm »
Using LEL as an excuse to build a new set of tubeless ready wheels with an SV9 dynamo for the first time.  Going with 30mm at about 60psi or so.  Hopefully this will avoid flat repairs at 1AM amongst the sheep. 

Anyone else going tubeless? 


Re: Anyone else going tubeless for LEL?
« Reply #1 on: April 06, 2017, 06:51:17 am »
Yes, will probably use 28mm Schwalbe Pro Ones, and would likewise expect (on balance) not to have to repair a puncture. Still, on the only two longish audaxes I have done, a 400 and 600, I *have* had punctures which needed attending to - so will also not be surprised to need to use my emergency kit which includes: 2 x inner tubes, patch kit, anchovies and a spare (clincher) tyre!

Re: Anyone else going tubeless for LEL?
« Reply #2 on: April 06, 2017, 07:37:04 am »
Yes, I'm using compass bon jons. My tubeless spares pack is a co2 inflater, a tiny bottle of sealant, some mini pliers to remove the valve core, some tubeless repair caterpillars, and a couple of spare tubes. I've always taken that lot on my MTB, and it's gotten me out of a hole before. However, I've not had a problem for 18m.

Re: Anyone else going tubeless for LEL?
« Reply #3 on: April 06, 2017, 07:50:15 am »
I'm running Schwalbe S-One 30mm on my Kinesis GFTi disc for LEL. Puncture free after 2000km. Will take a spare tube, duct and

Re: Anyone else going tubeless for LEL?
« Reply #4 on: April 06, 2017, 08:04:39 am »
Yup, been audaxing on tubeless for a couple of years now.  I'll probably be running 25mm hutchinson fusion 5's.   Though I might try panaracer race a evo 3 if my bank balance will stand it.  I'll have some stans sealant in the tyres for any small stuff & a tube and boot for a failure that doesn't seal.   Rims are velocity a23
Eddington: 107 Miles

Re: Anyone else going tubeless for LEL?
« Reply #5 on: April 06, 2017, 08:57:10 am »
I'm tempted.  Using 32mm Panaracer Gravel Kings on Stans Alpha 340 rims at the moment with tubes.  AFAIK the Gravel Kings, while not officially rated for tubeless use, are suitable (and they're certainly a bloody tight fit on the Alphas).  Need to get some new sealant, but I've already got the valves and tape needed.

Re: Anyone else going tubeless for LEL?
« Reply #6 on: April 06, 2017, 09:43:30 am »
If I remember correctly, Mr Bikey Mikey of this parish completed LEL 2013 on tubeless tyres, and posted many positive comments about that. There's a "Tubeless for dummies" somewhere on this forum which contains probably all you need to know!

Pedant note: You are very unlikely to get flats on British roads. You are more likely to suffer from punctures  ;)

Re: Anyone else going tubeless for LEL?
« Reply #7 on: April 06, 2017, 10:33:56 am »
Yes. I am running Sector 28's tubeless. No punctures since I converted in september last year. I will take spare tubes and a spare tyre etcthough.
The older you get, the better you get, unless you are a banana.

Re: Anyone else going tubeless for LEL?
« Reply #8 on: April 06, 2017, 10:40:55 am »
I've been riding tubeless for 18 months, and for a long ride like LEL, where you really don't need the hassle of punctures, I'd say it's a no brainer.

Were I riding, I'd stick new Schwalbe Pro tyres on. I'd carry one inner tube and a tyre boot. That would be it. In my experience trying to use the repair plugs out on the road isn't wise.

Re: Anyone else going tubeless for LEL?
« Reply #9 on: April 06, 2017, 11:12:37 am »
One of the reasons I went tubeless was because of a double pinch puncture (front & rear) when I hit something in the road on LEL 2013
Eddington: 107 Miles

Re: Anyone else going tubeless for LEL?
« Reply #10 on: April 06, 2017, 12:55:52 pm »
I won't be! I've had nothing but trouble with Tubeless. One ride over 100km that went without a hitch and all the others I have ended up with cuts (one in the sidewall) that will not seal.

Luck of the draw and I seem to have had several others bad luck so for now I will stay tubed running some sealant in the tubes. I am planning on getting some of the Compass Bon Jon's though (if they become available again) so I should have the option if I decide I want to try again.

I definitely don't think it is bad idea, I know loads of folk who have switched and never had an issue. I just can't handle riding along wondering if that is another puncture.
Enjoying a quiet year

jiberjaber

  • ... Fancy Pants \o/ ...
  • ACME S&M^2
Re: Anyone else going tubeless for LEL?
« Reply #11 on: April 06, 2017, 01:22:09 pm »
I'm probably tubeless for LEL (G-one, 30c) but having seen the grief Nik has had ^^^

I am slightly worried, so was considering taking a folding tyre and couple of tubes as a backup.I'm hoping to get a few 400's in before hand to give me confidence beforehand through :)
Regards,

Joergen

frillipippi

  • from Italy
Re: Anyone else going tubeless for LEL?
« Reply #12 on: April 06, 2017, 03:26:54 pm »
40,000 km without a single puncture on Schwalbe Marathon 700x28, mainly on Italian cracked roads.

We have a proverb that sounds more or less like "you won't change a winning team", so tubeless can wait for me!

Re: Anyone else going tubeless for LEL?
« Reply #13 on: April 06, 2017, 07:44:14 pm »
I'll run tubeless Schwalbe Pro Ones because they've the best rolling resistance (more or less). They seem to pick up punctures more than the Schwalbe Ones I used to use. Quite often -- four times this year? -- I've had a puncture that won't seal without a plug / anchovy. This is quick to do -- 2 minutes from start to finish? The psi will be down to about 40, and most of the latex will be gone in such cases. On something like LEL I'd imagine that, if that happened, I'd be needing an inner tube if another puncture came along.

If you haven't read this page, it should be interesting:
https://ridefar.info/bike/speed/rolling/

The author's stopped using tubeless.

IME, tubeless doesn't really save weight, but it can save time -- and time in the dark / rain / cold.

Milkit is handy if you're running tubeless

thing1

  • aka Joth
    • TandemThings
Re: Anyone else going tubeless for LEL?
« Reply #14 on: April 07, 2017, 05:26:47 am »
I won't be! I've had nothing but trouble with Tubeless. One ride over 100km that went without a hitch and all the others I have ended up with cuts (one in the sidewall) that will not seal.

Luck of the draw and I seem to have had several others bad luck so for now I will stay tubed running some sealant in the tubes. I am planning on getting some of the Compass Bon Jon's though (if they become available again) so I should have the option if I decide I want to try again.

I definitely don't think it is bad idea, I know loads of folk who have switched and never had an issue. I just can't handle riding along wondering if that is another puncture.

Very similar experience to what we had on the tandem. We did do PBP with hutchenson intensives without problem, but overall the speed with which they get cuts just makes really bad value for money

We put it down to 130kg combined weight being too much (doesn't explain it really but it's something). Don't expect we'll try them again for LEL

vorsprung

  • Opposites Attract
    • Audaxing
Re: Anyone else going tubeless for LEL?
« Reply #15 on: April 07, 2017, 10:23:54 am »
I won't be! I've had nothing but trouble with Tubeless. One ride over 100km that went without a hitch and all the others I have ended up with cuts (one in the sidewall) that will not seal.

Luck of the draw and I seem to have had several others bad luck so for now I will stay tubed running some sealant in the tubes. I am planning on getting some of the Compass Bon Jon's though (if they become available again) so I should have the option if I decide I want to try again.

I definitely don't think it is bad idea, I know loads of folk who have switched and never had an issue. I just can't handle riding along wondering if that is another puncture.




Very similar experience to what we had on the tandem. We did do PBP with hutchenson intensives without problem, but overall the speed with which they get cuts just makes really bad value for money

We put it down to 130kg combined weight being too much (doesn't explain it really but it's something). Don't expect we'll try them again for LEL


The 30mm Schwalbe S-One are very much better than Hutchinson Intensive.  If your bike can take these bigger tyres they are worth a try.  They are fast, don't cut as much
Audaxing Blog follow @vorsprungbike on

Re: Anyone else going tubeless for LEL?
« Reply #16 on: April 07, 2017, 11:02:49 am »
We put it down to 130kg combined weight being too much

I've put my issues with tubeless down to pressure rather than weight per se
This is based on almost complete lack of deflations on the front (75 psi) but several, apparently very small holes, which just wouldn't seal on the rear (90psi)
Pressures chosen based on 100kg all-up weight split 45kg F/ 55kg R, and looking for the supposedly ideal 15% tyre drop, on 28mm 

I've been wearing my first set out with inner tubes in over the winter but will probably try again before LEL

Re: Anyone else going tubeless for LEL?
« Reply #17 on: April 07, 2017, 12:03:18 pm »

Very similar experience to what we had on the tandem. We did do PBP with hutchenson intensives without problem, but overall the speed with which they get cuts just makes really bad value for money

We put it down to 130kg combined weight being too much (doesn't explain it really but it's something). Don't expect we'll try them again for LEL
I agree that the weight thing is an issue, likely only in my mind. I'm aournd the 115kg on top of the bike and luggage so probably similar to your all in weigh  :facepalm:

The 30mm Schwalbe S-One are very much better than Hutchinson Intensive.  If your bike can take these bigger tyres they are worth a try.  They are fast, don't cut as much
I ordered a set of these when they first came out and I looked at them for ages knowing they would be the answer to my problems. They made it around a 200 and I thought 'that is it, I'm away and rolling' 10k later the latex ejaculation came back to haunt me. My biggest issue now is not being confident in it and spending a lot of time thinking...'is that a puncture I can feel'? If I can't get hold of the Bon Jon tyres I may well run the S-Ones with tubes for LEL....they are lovely tyres!

For the record, I have tried the following
IRC Formula Pro RBCC - Side wall cut after 5km, another one after 15km, Glass slash at about 50 before I pretty much gave up
Hutchinson Sector 28 - Slashed after 28km just as I got to the start of the Santa Special. Rode the SS with it tubed. Then another slash at about 250km
Schwalbe S One - Slashed after about 210km

That last slash just ruined my confidence in the system for now not to mention it was getting to be a rather expensive experiment and because I was still carrying everything with me I would when riding tubed it seemed a but pointless.

Enjoying a quiet year

Re: Anyone else going tubeless for LEL?
« Reply #18 on: April 07, 2017, 01:07:54 pm »
40,000 km without a single puncture on Schwalbe Marathon 700x28, mainly on Italian cracked roads.

We have a proverb that sounds more or less like "you won't change a winning team", so tubeless can wait for me!

I use marathons on my training bike, there is a feeling of unstoppability about them but they do weigh a tonne and the ride is not so comfortable so I'm going to try the Michelin pro 4 endurance over the next few weeks before I make a decision for LEL, tubed all the way with me 👍

thing1

  • aka Joth
    • TandemThings
Re: Anyone else going tubeless for LEL?
« Reply #19 on: April 07, 2017, 05:09:48 pm »
We put it down to 130kg combined weight being too much

I've put my issues with tubeless down to pressure rather than weight per se
This is based on almost complete lack of deflations on the front (75 psi) but several, apparently very small holes, which just wouldn't seal on the rear (90psi)

...

Yes this sounds much more plausible.

I'd like to try the S-one. But we tried the One (partly because they sponsored Steve HAMR ) and it was the worst of them all... Got about 100km before a giant cut that wouldn't seal.


Re: Anyone else going tubeless for LEL?
« Reply #20 on: April 07, 2017, 06:02:23 pm »
It's a race tyre.

Not sure how that translates to the demands of tandem usage

Re: Anyone else going tubeless for LEL?
« Reply #21 on: April 08, 2017, 12:32:36 pm »
I've been testing out the tubeless S One 30mm, though the name seems to have changed for 2017. I think they are now G One Speed.

Anyway, they are pretty fast and I have been fairly happy with them. I wonder how long they will last though. The rear tire seems a bit worn already. At a guess, I've probably done 600km. Should have kept track of my riding a bit better after I put them on the bike. Anybody else have  milage info on them?

My other option for LEL (with tubes) is the 32mm Vittoria Hyper. Bit more weight but should be comfy and reasonably fast so I am told.

Re: Anyone else going tubeless for LEL?
« Reply #22 on: April 11, 2017, 09:35:55 am »
I've had similarly disappointing wear on S-Ones. They're great in terms of grip, roll resistance & punctures, but they wear quickly. Not a good commuting tyre !

I'm surprised at the range of experiences you lot have had with tubeless. I've been using tubeless for 2 years, and have had punctures that took a while to seal, but found that they would seal if I rotated the wheel so that the puncture was at the bottom and I pressed a finger against it to slow the loss of air. Slits in the side wall are another story. I carry tubes and a boot in case of those.

When I switched to Conti 4 Seasons for a winter because I felt more confident in their tread, I kept getting punctures. Schwalbe Marathons weigh a ton, but haven't punctured. I use them for commuting in winter now, although they also feel like wagon wheels and have much less grip.

What sealant, rims and tyres (pressure) you use clearly make a huge difference - as does tyre pressure and overall weight. So here's a round up of my set up.

Tyres - Schwalbe S-One  (30mm) (started with the first 28mm Schwalbe One tubeless, which were also fine)
Pressures - 70psi front, 80psi rear
Rims - Stan's A400 (disc brakes)
Sealant - Stan's Race Sealant (more, bigger particles)
My Weight - 62kg
Bike - 10kg
All my crap - depends on the ride, but 5-ish kg (?)

Re: Anyone else going tubeless for LEL?
« Reply #23 on: April 12, 2017, 02:48:48 pm »
We put it down to 130kg combined weight being too much

I've put my issues with tubeless down to pressure rather than weight per se
This is based on almost complete lack of deflations on the front (75 psi) but several, apparently very small holes, which just wouldn't seal on the rear (90psi)
Pressures chosen based on 100kg all-up weight split 45kg F/ 55kg R, and looking for the supposedly ideal 15% tyre drop, on 28mm 

I've been wearing my first set out with inner tubes in over the winter but will probably try again before LEL
These seem to be very high pressures for tubeless i think. 1800km of mixed scottish roads for my 30mm S-ones (now known as G-one speed i believe) no cuts, no punctures. 40 psi front, 60 psi rear. This seems to be a pretty standard setup for other folk i know running 'large volume' road tyres tubeless.

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Re: Anyone else going tubeless for LEL?
« Reply #24 on: April 12, 2017, 03:00:15 pm »
I've had similarly disappointing wear on S-Ones. They're great in terms of grip, roll resistance & punctures, but they wear quickly. Not a good commuting tyre !

I'm surprised at the range of experiences you lot have had with tubeless. I've been using tubeless for 2 years, and have had punctures that took a while to seal, but found that they would seal if I rotated the wheel so that the puncture was at the bottom and I pressed a finger against it to slow the loss of air. Slits in the side wall are another story. I carry tubes and a boot in case of those.

When I switched to Conti 4 Seasons for a winter because I felt more confident in their tread, I kept getting punctures. Schwalbe Marathons weigh a ton, but haven't punctured. I use them for commuting in winter now, although they also feel like wagon wheels and have much less grip.

What sealant, rims and tyres (pressure) you use clearly make a huge difference - as does tyre pressure and overall weight. So here's a round up of my set up.

Tyres - Schwalbe S-One  (30mm) (started with the first 28mm Schwalbe One tubeless, which were also fine)
Pressures - 70psi front, 80psi rear
Rims - Stan's A400 (disc brakes)
Sealant - Stan's Race Sealant (more, bigger particles)
My Weight - 62kg
Bike - 10kg
All my crap - depends on the ride, but 5-ish kg (?)
I think the pay off with the immediately grippy S-one is the higher wear rate. Still, on the center of my rear tyre the tiny knobbles are about halfway worn down i'd say and that only constitutes 1mm of rubber maximum that has been worn off on rough roads around Edinburgh and the borders. Total system weight is ~90 kg.

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