Author Topic: DC rainmaker first look at Hammerhead Karoo GPS unit  (Read 10789 times)

Re: DC rainmaker first look at Hammerhead Karoo GPS unit
« Reply #25 on: December 22, 2017, 05:20:08 pm »
I did think it was weird that they wouldn’t ramp up production straight away!

Aushiker

  • Cyclist, bushwalker, phottographer (amaturer)
    • Aushiker: Bicycling and Hiking in Western Australia
Re: DC rainmaker first look at Hammerhead Karoo GPS unit
« Reply #26 on: December 27, 2017, 05:44:22 am »
I have given up on the lack of confirmable news and cancelled my order this week. At least they completed the refund very promptly and without any hassle. I have a Garmin Edge 1030 on the way instead now.

Manotea

  • Where there is doubt...
Re: DC rainmaker first look at Hammerhead Karoo GPS unit
« Reply #27 on: December 31, 2017, 08:21:22 pm »
I'd been uming and ahing about getting one of these but held off (if only because it would cost more than my current steed), but as is, and given the battery limitations of the hammerhead and other issues arising, for riders who don't need the cycling specific functionality (HRM, ANT+, whatever), increasingly the way forward seems to use a mobile phone + app. I occasionally receive DIY perm tracks from riders who use their phones as the primary GPS or as a backup when their GPS fails, and the tech seems to be coming along nicely. I'll have to start asking folks exactly what they are using.

But my reality is I've just bought an Extrex Vista Hcx for £21 (£26 delivered) on ebay so such decisions have been put off for the forseeable future. :)

Re: DC rainmaker first look at Hammerhead Karoo GPS unit
« Reply #28 on: January 11, 2018, 07:01:03 pm »
They given 100 people a Karoo right ? That must be some ultra tight NDA they have right there!  Not heard a dicky bird. Meanwhile the backers are getting extremely restless.

Re: DC rainmaker first look at Hammerhead Karoo GPS unit
« Reply #29 on: January 11, 2018, 08:05:08 pm »
They given 100 people a Karoo right ? That must be some ultra tight NDA they have right there!  Not heard a dicky bird. Meanwhile the backers are getting extremely restless.
No NDA apparently, but you're right, practically nothing - the 100 Caracal beta testers are perhaps so underwhelmed they can't be bothered to post anything much! It's not a kickstarter- there aren't backers in that sense of the word - people placed advance orders in return for a discount.

dim

“No great mind has ever existed without a touch of madness.” - Aristotle

Aushiker

  • Cyclist, bushwalker, phottographer (amaturer)
    • Aushiker: Bicycling and Hiking in Western Australia
Re: DC rainmaker first look at Hammerhead Karoo GPS unit
« Reply #31 on: January 12, 2018, 12:14:47 am »
DC Rainmaker posted a new video on the Karoo in the past week. This is one of the beta test units

https://youtu.be/bMuGnHdb5Bk

Re: DC rainmaker first look at Hammerhead Karoo GPS unit
« Reply #32 on: January 15, 2018, 09:05:26 am »
Having watched the latest DC Rainmaker video I've decided to pull out. My main considerations were:

  • No speaker. I hadn't realised that the unit would be silent, which seems a strange hardware decision. I suspect that in later models they will add a speaker, at least if they wish to appeal to road cyclists
  • Allied with the above, I get the feeling that it is not just software updates that will improve the Karoo, but also a number of hardware improvements will be made. The second generation may provide a better product that is worth waiting for
  • Price wise, once the Karoo is on the market and available from UK retailers, I don't believe the retail price will be significantly different from the pre-order price, especially given the large tax burden that is levied

One positive though, my refund was processed within 6 minutes of it being requested.

Re: DC rainmaker first look at Hammerhead Karoo GPS unit
« Reply #33 on: January 15, 2018, 09:16:14 am »
They've been adamant to date that they will only sell direct. UK sales will eventually be served by a European distribution point but for now seem to ship directly from the US. That of course leads to customs issues and of course returns or repairs hassle in shipping back to the US.

Re: DC rainmaker first look at Hammerhead Karoo GPS unit
« Reply #34 on: January 18, 2018, 07:29:44 pm »
Yet another update email. I can’t understand why they are planning to phase in full functionality.

Still not tempted by the introductory price to be a software tester. Having said that, if it does all eventually work as they claim, it will wipe Garmin out.

Re: DC rainmaker first look at Hammerhead Karoo GPS unit
« Reply #35 on: January 21, 2018, 04:37:38 pm »
I've thought about jumping on this a few times, tempted by the introductory discount but I once you factor in VAT and duty it's less of a bargain, let alone the unofficial beta testing that seems to be going on. The other thing that concerns me is all GPS manufacturers seem to be going down the 'all singing and dancing' route when nobody has actually managed to make a bike specific device that actually navigates reliably day in day out (perhaps Etrex excepted, although that still has its 'quirks').

citoyen

  • Cat 6 Racer
Re: DC rainmaker first look at Hammerhead Karoo GPS unit
« Reply #36 on: January 21, 2018, 05:50:03 pm »
From the comments on the DC Rainmaker vid: "Doesn't seem to be the product they originally advertised."

I didn't really understand 8 months ago why so many people seemed so keen to jump on board and make a financial commitment to buying an untested, unproven device. I still don't understand it now.

If an established tech company with years of experience finds it so hard to get it right, why would anyone imagine a new startup can deliver on all its promises at the first attempt?

Also, their website is awash with bullshit.

dim

Re: DC rainmaker first look at Hammerhead Karoo GPS unit
« Reply #37 on: January 21, 2018, 06:09:41 pm »
I'm in no rush, and I'm not in the first wave of customers. My strategy was always to wait until reviews start coming out, and then cancel if any issues appear to be unresolvable in the medium term, or are caused by the hardware.

They are obviously feeling a lot of pressure, and have made a huge mistake. What disappoints me is that they only lay everything in the open once they have been caught out. Otherwise there would have been no public apology and their misdemeanours would have been kept secret. So it just becomes a PR exercise to try to keep folk on board.

For me, their saving grace is the fact that this market is so poorly served currently.

in 6 month's time, you will buy it for half price on Ebay ....

IMHO, I don't think that it even comes close to the new Garmin Edge 1030 ....

I use the Edge 1000, and I struggled at first to get it to work properly, a few software revisions, and with help from the internet and other users to setting it up correctly,  it never misses a beat for me now

I have mine connected to a Garmin Varia Radar unit plus all the sensors, so battery life was an issue (6-7hrs), (The radar unit chews the battery, but it's a 'must have') .... however, connect it to a powerbank and battery problems solved

so in my opinion, it's not even close to the Garmin and I doubt that I would buy one at half price on Ebay later this year
“No great mind has ever existed without a touch of madness.” - Aristotle

jiberjaber

  • ... Fancy Pants \o/ ...
  • ACME S&M^2
Re: DC rainmaker first look at Hammerhead Karoo GPS unit
« Reply #38 on: January 21, 2018, 10:52:30 pm »
I think I'll be going for a refund this week I think. Beepgate is a big disappointment.  I'll probably give a 1030 a go - can't be that bad surely :D
Regards,

Joergen

jiberjaber

  • ... Fancy Pants \o/ ...
  • ACME S&M^2
Re: DC rainmaker first look at Hammerhead Karoo GPS unit
« Reply #39 on: January 22, 2018, 01:18:57 am »
Having watched the latest DC Rainmaker video I've decided to pull out. My main considerations were:

  • No speaker. I hadn't realised that the unit would be silent, which seems a strange hardware decision. I suspect that in later models they will add a speaker, at least if they wish to appeal to road cyclists
  • Allied with the above, I get the feeling that it is not just software updates that will improve the Karoo, but also a number of hardware improvements will be made. The second generation may provide a better product that is worth waiting for
  • Price wise, once the Karoo is on the market and available from UK retailers, I don't believe the retail price will be significantly different from the pre-order price, especially given the large tax burden that is levied

One positive though, my refund was processed within 6 minutes of it being requested.
Andrew, who did you contact to arrange the refund? I can't seem to find a process on their website.
Regards,

Joergen

Re: DC rainmaker first look at Hammerhead Karoo GPS unit
« Reply #40 on: January 22, 2018, 08:32:24 am »
I emailed support@hammerhead.io with my simple request for a refund, and gave them my order number. As mentioned above, they were very quick to respond and provide the refund. Hopefully that will be the case for yourself too.

jiberjaber

  • ... Fancy Pants \o/ ...
  • ACME S&M^2
Re: DC rainmaker first look at Hammerhead Karoo GPS unit
« Reply #41 on: January 22, 2018, 08:58:55 am »
I emailed support@hammerhead.io with my simple request for a refund, and gave them my order number. As mentioned above, they were very quick to respond and provide the refund. Hopefully that will be the case for yourself too.

Ta - email sent.  There's a couple of 1030's in stock at my local Evans and I have a convenient £200 voucher from Quidco to spend so it makes it a very easy purchase!  (Now if only Evans were open before 10AM I could pick it up and try it on today's ride!  ::-) )

ETA: Refund requested 09:00 this morning, nothing received back yet other than a ticket has been raised auto-email.
Regards,

Joergen

jiberjaber

  • ... Fancy Pants \o/ ...
  • ACME S&M^2
Re: DC rainmaker first look at Hammerhead Karoo GPS unit
« Reply #42 on: January 23, 2018, 10:03:40 am »
I despair!

From "VP Operations - Hammerhead":

Quote
Thanks for getting in touch with us!

We’re sorry to hear that you would like a refund. We know you have been looking forward the Karoo, which is finally days away from delivery. We greatly appreciate your support these long months, and we would be extremely sorry to see you go now..

We will refund your money immediately if you wish, but before doing so, would you mind letting us know your specific reasoning? Your candor would be extremely helpful to us. However, you are certainly not required to give us any further explanation if you’d rather not.

Please note that the $299 pre-ordered price of Karoo you paid will be refunded to you if you’d like, but if you chose to again purchase the Karoo, you will pay the full regular price of $499.

All questions or concerns are encouraged! Otherwise, please just confirm that you’d like your refund, and we’ll provide it right away.


12 hours later I get a response .... We'll give you a refund if you tell us why, or tell us you are not going to tell us...  ::-)
12 hours on from replying to that I still don't have a refund.

Perhaps they are overrun with refund requests or are 'all hands on deck' packaging everything...
Regards,

Joergen

Re: DC rainmaker first look at Hammerhead Karoo GPS unit
« Reply #43 on: January 24, 2018, 09:44:45 am »
That was very different to my experience for getting a refund.

I sent my short request for a refund on 15th Jan at 8:32. I didn't give a reason for the refund ... I thought the less information provided the better. I immediately got an automated response to say the request had been received. 6 minutes later I got notification that the order had been refunded. 1 minute after that I had an email from Sherkhan at Hammerhead confirming that he had processed the refund and stating "If you are unable to purchase it at this time, we totally understand, but please stay in touch so you can receive updates as we ship and have units in the wild."

jiberjaber

  • ... Fancy Pants \o/ ...
  • ACME S&M^2
Re: DC rainmaker first look at Hammerhead Karoo GPS unit
« Reply #44 on: January 24, 2018, 11:13:09 am »
I think they are overrun - I noted on a FB post I have been monitoring that a number of people are claiming to have recieved a  request to confirm their delivery address - seems like a good idea to keep hopes alive says the cynic in me!.

I complained about the 'demand for feedback' - it would have been much better for them to have processed the refund then seek feedback if they wanted it... I felt a little at hostage.  After waiting I sent them:
Quote
Regarding "We will refund your money immediately if you wish", I clearly indicated over 24 hours ago that I would like a refund.
Whilst I am happy to provide feedback (and have done) I am not happy that my refund is predicated on you reading that feedback!
Please escalate and advise progress.

To which they responded:
Quote
Thanks for the feedback Jason! Much appreciated. We will process your refund shortly.
Please excuse our reply speed. Despite being a tiny team, we ensure to get back to each and every one of our hundreds of message within a 24 hour period, as we have done with you. 
Thanks again for your interest in our product. You should see the refund reflected within 24 hours.
All the best,
Jon

Refund arrived in to my paypal at 10:02, so 2 days and a bit from when requested.  I was hovering over the escalate to Paypal as a claim button but whilst annoyed at 2 days of delay, felt it might still be a bit early to hit that button.

I am going to feedback on the delay, the ransom feeling and a suggested alternative wording!  I would be concerned about how they are going to support the community if they are struggling to even process a simple refund "immediately".

In summary - I'm glad I'm out....  :thumbsup:
Regards,

Joergen

Re: DC rainmaker first look at Hammerhead Karoo GPS unit
« Reply #45 on: January 24, 2018, 12:16:16 pm »
In the grand scheme of things, 2 days for a refund is much quicker than many large companies would achieve.

However, as a small company, if confidence in the product is lost and the refund demands escalate, there may well come a time when they pull the plug. Hopefully that won’t be the case.

jiberjaber

  • ... Fancy Pants \o/ ...
  • ACME S&M^2
Re: DC rainmaker first look at Hammerhead Karoo GPS unit
« Reply #46 on: January 24, 2018, 12:24:31 pm »
In the grand scheme of things, 2 days for a refund is much quicker than many large companies would achieve.

However, as a small company, if confidence in the product is lost and the refund demands escalate, there may well come a time when they pull the plug. Hopefully that won’t be the case.

Yep agreed when the refund isn't paypal but what most concerned me was the ransom for feedback, my commercial spidey senses were triggered as I was thinking it might be a delaying tactic due to cash flow issues... (lack of anything delivered, a bit of a history for being flexible with the truth etc)  I'm out now so more relieved.  :thumbsup:

Anyhow, ordered, collected and now playing with a new 1030... I seem to have condemned myself to being another Garmin Beta tester!  :facepalm:  ;D
Regards,

Joergen

Re: DC rainmaker first look at Hammerhead Karoo GPS unit
« Reply #47 on: January 24, 2018, 08:33:05 pm »
...nobody has actually managed to make a bike specific device that actually navigates reliably day in day out (perhaps Etrex excepted, although that still has its 'quirks').
I think a lot of the problem isn't the devices, but the road data. There's the traditional car satnav maps (Navteq & TeleAtlas, now owned by Garmin & TomTom), OpenStreetMap, and Google, and that's about it. None of them are properly reliable for bicycle-specific navigation, so there are always going to be routing glitches.

dim

Re: DC rainmaker first look at Hammerhead Karoo GPS unit
« Reply #48 on: January 24, 2018, 09:59:34 pm »
...nobody has actually managed to make a bike specific device that actually navigates reliably day in day out (perhaps Etrex excepted, although that still has its 'quirks').
I think a lot of the problem isn't the devices, but the road data. There's the traditional car satnav maps (Navteq & TeleAtlas, now owned by Garmin & TomTom), OpenStreetMap, and Google, and that's about it. None of them are properly reliable for bicycle-specific navigation, so there are always going to be routing glitches.

I've never had a problem with my Edge 1000 as regards planning a route on the unit, and the mapping software is the version that was released with the unit)

where I do sometimes find problems is when I plan a route on RideWithGps ..... sometimes, when getting to a 4 way intersection, it does not tell which way to turn, until after you guess which way to turn .... so I would guess that the problem is with the RideWithGps software (I use the free version)

and saying that, every route that I have copied from the Cambridge Cycle Club (on RideWithGps), has been flawless .... (maybe the paid version is better?)
“No great mind has ever existed without a touch of madness.” - Aristotle

Re: DC rainmaker first look at Hammerhead Karoo GPS unit
« Reply #49 on: January 25, 2018, 07:50:50 pm »
...nobody has actually managed to make a bike specific device that actually navigates reliably day in day out (perhaps Etrex excepted, although that still has its 'quirks').
I think a lot of the problem isn't the devices, but the road data. There's the traditional car satnav maps (Navteq & TeleAtlas, now owned by Garmin & TomTom), OpenStreetMap, and Google, and that's about it. None of them are properly reliable for bicycle-specific navigation, so there are always going to be routing glitches.
Routing glitches I can cope with, it's the hardware/firmware/software failing that does my head in.