Author Topic: Googlemaps thinks that Greenhow hill (from Pateley Bridge) is a sensible route!  (Read 2691 times)

Determined to get away, I was intending to go to Hawes, looked like some nice campsites up there. I bought a map for that region. This was to be a trial run out with new luggage, I haven't been cycle camping in nearly 30 years.

I packed my bike.


Campsites full.
Weather terrible.
So I decided to go to Kettlewell instead. No map, Googlemaps routing to the rescue.

Route out of York was  . . . interesting. I didn't even know there was a cycle path there.
Nice bridge


Still, the sun is shining, I'm touring, who cares if it is taking ages to get anywhere. Several hours later I see a sign for Harrogate. Wait, I'm just passing Harrogate? I've ridden something like 40miles, Harrogate is about 25miles from York, this is a bit ridiculous.
Still, the sun is shining, I'm touring . . .

A while later, I'm in Pateley Bridge and a bit hungry. A small tea rooms/cafe doesn't look all that promising, until I see a sign saying 'cyclists and walkers' welcome. I ask if it is ok to lean my bike against the wall. No it isn't, they insist on walking round with me to the yard round the back, where "they can keep an eye on the bike for me from the kitchen window". It is boiling hot and I'm very grateful for the huge glass of cold water they bring with my drink to the table.

Leaving Pateley Bridge I suddenly realise that the route is going up Greenhow Hill. I remember this from many, many years ago as a horrible, relentless dreary slog. My memory was faulty. It is a steep horrible, relentless dreary slog, with cars buzzing you. I have to stop to rest twice. About half way I'm passed by a roady who looks in amazement at my laden bike and says "It's hard enough without luggage". Yeah. I swear never to come this way again.

Did I mention it was hot? There were also thunderstorms. Drenching thunderstorms. Then baking sunshine. So I was a teensy bit desperate that Kettlewell campsite wouldn't turn me away.
Nobody on reception, but a phone number "If you've bothered to cycle here in this weather, we can't turn you away". Bless them.

Actually a really nice campsite. Bit crammed in close together, but mostly full of families with kids and barring one tent that had a radio going, no noise makers.
I even managed to get my tent up before the next deluge hit.
The Pro-Action lives!


Next day, I chose my own route, resolving to avoid bloody bastard hills - so I went via Storiths. Barring an unfortunate road rage incident at the Storiths ford involving a Land rover parked in the ford (I didn't rage, he did), it was a very pleasant ride home.

About 130 or so miles, maybe a bit more over the two days. I need to ride more often. DEFINITELY  need lower gears for this touring lark. And never ride up Greenhow Hill again.
<i>Marmite slave</i>

Can a mod move this to 'Ride Reports'?   :thumbsup:
<i>Marmite slave</i>

I suspect Greenhow is actually the easiest route west out of Pateley Bridge. There are a couple of alternatives that are really steep. However the cars are too numerous for it to be a pleasant classic MBA.

I actually dislike greenhow more as a descent - always scares me at the bottom where it's really steep into the village with side roads for added spice

Mike

Aye, Greenhow is the standard reply if the question is how to get into the Dales from Ripon/Harrogate. Can't really blame Google for that. I hate it, and routed around via Askwith Moor and Ilkley on my 300.

Good on you, Al, looks like you had a lovely weekend. I rode into York on that cyclepath on Friday, it's way preferable to the A19 at 4 pm onna Friday :)

Yeah, I came back via Ilkley/otley. Did involve a bit of the pool road, but then I cut across via Weston then Clap Gate to Wetherby.

The cyclepath out of York is nice, if a bit slow dodging dog walkers.
<i>Marmite slave</i>

There is a definite gap in the market for a decent routing program that - likely with crowd provided intel - allows you to plan a cycle route to your taste.

Fairly big issues around one man's meat etc, but I'd both contribute and pay. Failing that, being able to plan on the Ridewithgps app would go some way towards helping, but they are prime offenders when it comes to a "you're cycling so instead of keeping you on the main road I'll take you up and down a bastard steep diversion "

Yeah, I came back via Ilkley/otley. Did involve a bit of the pool road, but then I cut across via Weston then Clap Gate to Wetherby.

The cyclepath out of York is nice, if a bit slow dodging dog walkers.

Anyone going via Otley and not stopping at Bloomfield Square...  :facepalm:

https://www.instagram.com/bloomfield_square/

It is an absolute joy

Yeah, I came back via Ilkley/otley. Did involve a bit of the pool road, but then I cut across via Weston then Clap Gate to Wetherby.

The cyclepath out of York is nice, if a bit slow dodging dog walkers.

Anyone going via Otley and not stopping at Bloomfield Square...  :facepalm:

https://www.instagram.com/bloomfield_square/

It is an absolute joy
Sorry, I don't have a beard
<i>Marmite slave</i>

Kim

  • Timelord
There is a definite gap in the market for a decent routing program that - likely with crowd provided intel - allows you to plan a cycle route to your taste.

Strava sort of does it with their popularity based routing, but the nature of the beast means there's a bias towards the sort of routes favoured by fast commuters.


Quote
Fairly big issues around one man's meat etc

Perhaps the way to do it is for an algorithm to learn from individuals' ride histories (possibly with some additional mechanism for rating how much you like sections of road), then generate routing weightings based on how much roads were favoured by riders with similar habits.  Would need a pretty big dataset in order to work properly, which probably means the likes of Strava or Garmin (or maybe Google) would have to think it was a good idea.
Careful, Kim. Your sarcasm's showing...

Cudzoziemiec

  • Solar powered, tea fuelled cycle-wol
To work properly it would also have to know what time of day and day of week you planned to ride that route, as traffic levels can vary so much on the same roads.
A cup of tea is the perfect bridge between real life and cake.

Kim

  • Timelord
To work properly it would also have to know what time of day and day of week you planned to ride that route, as traffic levels can vary so much on the same roads.

That's a very good point.
Careful, Kim. Your sarcasm's showing...

I suspect that's a level of sophistication too far. I think the distinctions for roads should be: off road, metalled cyclepath/segregated, back roads, main roads. that gives you enough info to make a meaningful choice. With a special sign for cobleobleobles.

Kim

  • Timelord
Except the problem with that kind of crowd-sourcing of subjective interpretation is well demonstrated by anything that relies on OSM data for cycle routing.  It might tell you whether a path is metalled, but it won't tell you that it's full of potholes and speedbumps.  An unmetalled cycle path might be wide, well-drained hardpacked gravel, or it might be a badger trail through a nettle bed.  A back road in construction or classification might be a rat run.  And Cudzoziemiec's point about time of day.

As a general rule, I'd take a clever algorithm mining an existing dataset over a massive crowd-sourcing project any day.  It's just simpler.  The question is of having access to a suitable dataset, and whether there's an algorithm that produces useful results.

Careful, Kim. Your sarcasm's showing...

A massive problem with googlemaps is that it simply doesn't take gradients into account.

OS mapping is avail online (and for a very reasonable fee; if I were navigating from a large electronic device, I'd be very interested in buying the whole UK set). That has most of the info available.

A separate issue, and something I'd really like Google to change, is the sodding 'white on off-white' that they use for minor roads. Anyone with less than perfect eyesight has great trouble even spotting the roads on a device. It's ridiculous that there isn't an option for switching the display to use another colour or altering the contrast.
<i>Marmite slave</i>

Kim

  • Timelord
A massive problem with googlemaps is that it simply doesn't take gradients into account.

Indeed.  Same goes for Garmins, even when they have contour data available.

I quite like Cyclestreets for its pragmatism in urban areas, though it's not the nicest tool to use.
Careful, Kim. Your sarcasm's showing...

Cudzoziemiec

  • Solar powered, tea fuelled cycle-wol
A separate issue, and something I'd really like Google to change, is the sodding 'white on off-white' that they use for minor roads. Anyone with less than perfect eyesight has great trouble even spotting the roads on a device. It's ridiculous that there isn't an option for switching the display to use another colour or altering the contrast.
I have "excellent focus" (C) a noptician and I agree with this.

As for the gradients, ridewithgps is also guilty of this, as is Sustrans of course.
A cup of tea is the perfect bridge between real life and cake.