Author Topic: Bryan Chapman Memorial 2019  (Read 37846 times)

mattc

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Re: Bryan Chapman Memorial 2018
« Reply #25 on: August 16, 2017, 12:23:45 pm »
An interesting proposition ...
no bag-drop yet confirmed. And we don't know how many tickets there are - so there might be 500 of you fighting for the 42 beds in the YHA.

( I know it's "only 42 quid", but that's 8 chains, or 2 nights accomodation. :P )
Has never ridden RAAM
---------
No.11  Because of the great host of those who dislike the least appearance of "swank " when they travel the roads and lanes. - From Kuklos' 39 Articles

mattc

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Re: Bryan Chapman Memorial 2018
« Reply #26 on: August 16, 2017, 12:29:49 pm »
Possibly, what's the weather forecast like?

 ;D
Has never ridden RAAM
---------
No.11  Because of the great host of those who dislike the least appearance of "swank " when they travel the roads and lanes. - From Kuklos' 39 Articles

Re: Bryan Chapman Memorial 2018
« Reply #27 on: August 16, 2017, 12:56:38 pm »
Hi all

Just been brought to my attention that 1) BCM 600 2018 has gone "live", and 2) there is a new thread for the occasion.

To answer some of the points raised so far:

1. Speaking personally, I think it was a little early to launch this. I'd have preferred mid-late October, ideally after half term. But hey it's out there now, so we have to get on with it. The people who manage the calendar, the events and AUK in general are all volunteers, fitting it all in around otherwise already busy lives, so we have to accommodate each other. It is a bit too early, and it does lead to DNS's, and No - we don't do a waiting list, and / or refunds; and Yes, people are probably better prepared calendar-wise around about Christmas. On the other hand as others have pointed out, the expenditure starts well before the event. The 2017 booking for Dolgellau was paid I seem to remember in December 2015 - just before Christmas, as they had had other enquiries for the weekend and we absolutely have to have that place if we are to run the event as we do. It would be a very different event if we couldn't.

2. Pickled Onion suggests a second run of the event. We've thought about it - but the logistics, cost and risk are such that we decided not to.   There is a reason that it costs so much to enter - it isn't cheap or straightforward to run! You are always welcome to volunteer and see how what it involves to deliver it on that weekend - and that is, believe me, the tip of the iceberg. I'll be fielding enquiries and processing bookings for an extra two months for 2018...

3. With regard to the costs: To put it into perspective,  I discovered a non-AUK event earlier this year, which runs one direction over 300k over the Chapman route which will set you back around £150 to ride, and a Brit Cycling event that was I think £27 for 40 miles and around £50 for 80 miles (Estuary Epic). We're feeding you for the better part of a weekend, and providing a number of controls where you can go indoors, sit down and have hot food. Halls are facing cut backs in funding from local authorities, but they still have to maintain their buildings and pay their fuel bills - so the costs go up to do this. The food costs are amazing...and since 2016 have seen a significant hike upwards.  We're having to make calculated estimates as to what will happen between August this year (When we put the event budget together) and May 2018 when you all turn up...

3. Online entries - Liam asked about this. No, we don't do this - and for the reason's you hinted at in your later posting. There is a charge for PayPal. there are also risks with Pay Pal and as we (and I am sure other organisers too) find some AUKS will try anything,we really don't have time to liaise with PP to argue why refunds should not have been made. It also puts a greater admin burden on us. As Zed 43 points out - there are other drawbacks with PayPal. As organisers, we bear the risks for the event. If it doesn't cover it's costs, we have to under write them, ourselves, personally.

4. Membership of AUK Yes we do insist that all entrants are full members of AUK.  Prospective entrants from overseas should contact us directly. To date, they have created the least of our problems. Ritchie is of the opinion that this is a very popular, over-subscribed event.  AUK is a membership organisation. It is only fair that members should have first choice when it comes to places. Members are what keeps AUK as the organisation it is. It doesn't cost a lot to join, but there are benefits of being an organisation that being individuals going on a bike ride doesn't have.  Liam and Whos on the Wheel reflected on this, and Liam's reflections on organising the London Wales London are similar to the conclusions we've drawn. That's another reason entries are postal and payment by cheque (or other non-electronic means).

Hope this answers the points raised so far.  If you have questions you want a definitive answer to, please contact the organiser via the entry page on the calendar. Ritchie has previously ridden some very fast times over long distances, I think he's still the fastest rider of the BCM, and has demonstrated form on the PBP.

Catswiskas



Re: Bryan Chapman Memorial 2018
« Reply #28 on: August 16, 2017, 01:20:36 pm »

( I know it's "only 42 quid", but that's 8 chains, or 2 nights accomodation. :P )

Are you buying those chains in the jewellery section of Argos?

Re: Bryan Chapman Memorial 2018
« Reply #29 on: August 16, 2017, 01:56:36 pm »
Please tell me where you can buy 8 chains for £42...so I can reduce Himself's annual consumables budget! :P

I shall be taking a keener interest in his antics in the workshop....

I am sure there are partners all over the land who will take an eager and immediate interest too! :demon:

mattc

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Re: Bryan Chapman Memorial 2018
« Reply #30 on: August 16, 2017, 03:05:04 pm »
I'm not talking about 10sp chains!  :D
Has never ridden RAAM
---------
No.11  Because of the great host of those who dislike the least appearance of "swank " when they travel the roads and lanes. - From Kuklos' 39 Articles

Re: Bryan Chapman Memorial 2018
« Reply #31 on: August 16, 2017, 03:30:05 pm »
I'm not talking about 10sp chains!  :D

No excuses.  You've landed Ritchie in it.  Best avoid Wales for a year or two.

Re: Bryan Chapman Memorial 2018
« Reply #32 on: August 16, 2017, 04:29:58 pm »
Catswiskas after your lovely words makes me think I'd probably volunteer again for next year rather then ride. Might give my free entry to Jonah for a wedding present?

Re: Bryan Chapman Memorial 2018
« Reply #33 on: August 16, 2017, 06:16:11 pm »

( I know it's "only 42 quid", but that's 8 chains, or 2 nights accomodation. :P )

I think the price is in line with other AUK events with full TLC. You get what you pay for.

I did buy 7 pounds chains (6-8 speed) from CRC, they used to stretch after about 300 miles to the point that I could see the teeth on the chainring. I then moved to an 8 speed 7 series Shimano (more like 20 pounds) and it doesn't stretch.
Even in the world of links, you get what you pay for


Re: Bryan Chapman Memorial 2018
« Reply #34 on: August 16, 2017, 06:18:18 pm »
An interesting proposition ...
no bag-drop yet confirmed. And we don't know how many tickets there are - so there might be 500 of you fighting for the 42 beds in the YHA.

( I know it's "only 42 quid", but that's 8 chains, or 2 nights accomodation. :P )
If one night is on a Travelodge and one is in an audax hotel, maybe.
   E = 77  SR = 2

mattc

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Re: Bryan Chapman Memorial 2018
« Reply #35 on: August 16, 2017, 06:51:59 pm »
...
 42 quid ...   2 nights accomodation
...


If one night is on a Travelodge and one is in an audax hotel, maybe.
Tell you what, how about a wager? How many riders on the BCM do you think will manage Fri+Sun accom for less than £42? I mean actual money paid to a business. Just me? 3 riders? None at all (i.e. consistent with your statement)?

Go on, put a number on it it.
Has never ridden RAAM
---------
No.11  Because of the great host of those who dislike the least appearance of "swank " when they travel the roads and lanes. - From Kuklos' 39 Articles

mattc

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Re: Bryan Chapman Memorial 2018
« Reply #36 on: August 16, 2017, 06:57:26 pm »

( I know it's "only 42 quid", but that's 8 chains, or 2 nights accomodation. :P )

I think the price is in line with other AUK events with full TLC. You get what you pay for.

Oh sure - and I didn't say it wasn't. (Do remember that I have worked on numerous long AUK events. Unpaid, of course!)

My point is that £42 - plus any accom/travel bookings - is quite a big commitment for some, especially 9 months ahead. For some ; this thread will demonstrate who regards that as a trivial sum!

(I do seem to have struck a nerve here ... :) )
Has never ridden RAAM
---------
No.11  Because of the great host of those who dislike the least appearance of "swank " when they travel the roads and lanes. - From Kuklos' 39 Articles

Re: Bryan Chapman Memorial 2018
« Reply #37 on: August 16, 2017, 11:58:40 pm »
...
 42 quid ...   2 nights accomodation
...


If one night is on a Travelodge and one is in an audax hotel, maybe.
Tell you what, how about a wager? How many riders on the BCM do you think will manage Fri+Sun accom for less than £42? I mean actual money paid to a business. Just me? 3 riders? None at all (i.e. consistent with your statement)?

Go on, put a number on it it.
Been a long time since I paid less than £25 for a night anywhere. But I guess for 2 sharing twin rooms it could be done.

BUT the fact is 42 for this ride is cracking value. And the ride is definitely worth committing to early in order to get a place.
   E = 77  SR = 2

Re: Bryan Chapman Memorial 2018
« Reply #38 on: August 17, 2017, 06:26:24 am »
25 quid a night to pitch a tent in Buckinghamshire in August   :P

20 quid a night for a bed in a shared male only dormitory at YHA Castleton...


mattc

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Re: Bryan Chapman Memorial 2018
« Reply #39 on: August 17, 2017, 12:15:45 pm »
To put this in perspective - and hopefully put the whole thing to bed - I was talking to a rider on a recent ride (which cost more than £42, incidentally) about cheap accommodation before/after rides. Amongst other things, he reckoned that the £4/night he pays at Caving Club properties was about right!


(we didn't discuss chains ... )
Has never ridden RAAM
---------
No.11  Because of the great host of those who dislike the least appearance of "swank " when they travel the roads and lanes. - From Kuklos' 39 Articles

Re: Bryan Chapman Memorial 2018
« Reply #40 on: August 17, 2017, 12:33:55 pm »
Chains and dodgy hotel beds aside...

I'm very interested in Ritchie and Claire's AUK only policy.  I would not advocate it for many events but for the longer distances I think it's got real value (unless someone can point out the glaring flaw in the scheme).  As far as I can tell it is an incentive:
- to encourage people to try other events
- to make the casual dabbler get more heavily involved - perhaps drawing them into helping or debating on here the price of chains and bed linen
- to boost the circulation of Arrivee (and thereby make it a viable advertising proposition)
- to celebrate the ethos of the discipline
- to reduce the risk of plucky triers endangering themselves by having a punt on something like the BCM or London Wales London because it sounds hardcore...
- to build AUK membership where it can negotiate bulk deals on chains at Matt's discount chain and bunkhouse emporium

Discuss...

Aunt Maud

  • Le Flâneur.
Re: Bryan Chapman Memorial 2018
« Reply #41 on: August 17, 2017, 01:38:00 pm »
I don't think it will reduce the numbers of plucky triers who want to ride the BCM if they think it's hardcore, because it doesn't cost much to become a member of AUK. I was one of those plucky triers once and I like riding brevets, especially long X rated ones.

Secondly, I enjoy being able to visit other countries and ride their brevets. If they implemented a similar rule it would put me off going there, as I can't afford to become a member of six or so national organisations plus the cost of each brevet.

Thirdly, it sounds like you're trying to say; If your not a member of our club we don't want you riding our brevets, thank you.

vorsprung

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Re: Bryan Chapman Memorial 2018
« Reply #42 on: August 17, 2017, 01:49:26 pm »
I don't think it will reduce the numbers of plucky triers who want to ride the BCM if they think it's hardcore, because it doesn't cost much to become a member of AUK. I was one of those plucky triers once and I like riding brevets, especially long X rated ones.
BCM isn't X rated
Quote
Secondly, I enjoy being able to visit other countries and ride their brevets. If they implemented a similar rule it would put me off going there, as I can't afford to become a member of six or so national organisations plus the cost of each brevet.
if they had an event as popular as the BCM perhaps they would?
Quote
Thirdly, it sounds like you're trying to say; If your not a member of our club we don't want you riding our brevets, thank you.
As far as I know, this is the only AUK event with this restriction

Now let me give you the other side of it

Before 2015 I had ridden the BCM 10 times.  it's a local event to me and I like doing it.  So sue me.
Since 2015 I have been unable to enter the BCM because it is so popular that it fills up before I get around to doing anything about it
I have been a member of AUK all this time.   it's an AUK event but I have been unable to ride it
Richie has put the entry fee up really high and only accepts entry by post.  However these measures didn't stem the flow.  So restricting it to "members only" seems ok to me

Audaxing Blog follow @vorsprungbike on

Aunt Maud

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Re: Bryan Chapman Memorial 2018
« Reply #43 on: August 17, 2017, 01:57:25 pm »
I know it's not X rated, I've ridden it twice. I don't think Liam Fitz is just talking about The BCM anyway.

Also, I can't help you if you can't get on The BCM, it's not my fault, sorry.

There are other popular rides in Europe which fill up quickly and they don't have a members only rule.

LittleWheelsandBig

  • Whimsy Rider
Re: Bryan Chapman Memorial 2018
« Reply #44 on: August 17, 2017, 02:01:55 pm »
Several brevets have limits on the number of entrants from each country e.g. Super Brevet Scandinavia and Herentals-Cosne-Herentals 1200s
Wheel meet again, don't know where, don't know when...

Aunt Maud

  • Le Flâneur.
Re: Bryan Chapman Memorial 2018
« Reply #45 on: August 17, 2017, 02:10:55 pm »
True, but you don't have to be a member of a Scandinavian or Belgian club to ride.


Maybe the problem with the BMC is with the number of people who enter early just to save a place, then don't bother to turn up. Which is what happened in 2015 when they had something like half the entrants drop out and Ritchie opened up the entries again.

Catswiskas said it isn't the overseas riders who are causing the problem anyway.

Re: Bryan Chapman Memorial 2018
« Reply #46 on: August 17, 2017, 02:17:33 pm »
Catswiskas said it isn't the overseas riders who are causing the problem anyway.

Catswiskas and Somnolent also said (or implied) that the AUK-only rule might not be applied to overseas riders.

Re: Bryan Chapman Memorial 2018
« Reply #47 on: August 17, 2017, 02:21:22 pm »
I don't see why you couldn't welcome overseas riders who have made a commitment to their community by joining their equivalent of AUK.

In the interest of full disclosure I'm debating doing on London Wales London or at least giving AUK's a week's head start on entries

Aunt Maud

  • Le Flâneur.
Re: Bryan Chapman Memorial 2018
« Reply #48 on: August 17, 2017, 02:33:31 pm »
Catswiskas said it isn't the overseas riders who are causing the problem anyway.

Catswiskas and Somnolent also said (or implied) that the AUK-only rule might not be applied to overseas riders.

Read the second line of LiamFitz' post.  I'll put it here incase you have trouble finding it.

Chains and dodgy hotel beds aside...

I'm very interested in Ritchie and Claire's AUK only policy.  I would not advocate it for many events but for the longer distances I think it's got real value (unless someone can point out the glaring flaw in the scheme).  As far as I can tell it is an incentive:
....snip
Discuss...

simonp

  • Omnomnomnipotent.
Re: Bryan Chapman Memorial 2018
« Reply #49 on: August 17, 2017, 02:34:13 pm »
Well, I'm out. It's too close to Monmouth Regatta, which is the following weekend (they're saying 26/27 May 2017, but they must mean 2018).

This year when I got back from the BCM I had an email saying the following Tuesday we would be seat racing for Monmouth - i.e. trials. I was very stiff and tired, but managed to just scrape in to a boat.

Best of luck to riders and team.