Author Topic: HI VIZ  (Read 4418 times)

T42

  • Old fool in a hurry
Re: HI VIZ
« Reply #50 on: September 12, 2017, 09:24:49 am »
+1. When I'm driving at night I often have to dip my lights for road-signs.  I shall put some Proviz on my Christmas list.

Re putting text on gilets, IMO anything more complex that a 4-letter word won't be read, and then only out of the corner of the driver's eye as the car hurtles past.
I dare eat all that may become a man.

But hold the oysters.

MikeFromLFE

  • Previously known as Millimole
Re: HI VIZ
« Reply #51 on: September 12, 2017, 09:29:38 am »
Chevrons on your back. As seen on YACF jerseys?
Too many angry people - breathe & relax.

Re: HI VIZ
« Reply #52 on: September 12, 2017, 09:39:43 am »
Whilst googling for something else I came across this:-

https://www.amazon.co.uk/CYCLIST-Reflective-Waistcoat-Jacket-Visibility/dp/B01DH16T26

(It's a generic yellow hi-vis tabard but it has "DEAF CYCLIST" in large letters on the back.)

My hearing is thankfully perfectly good, but that's one message that may have a more positive effect on motorists than others (such as POLITE).

If only it were orange as, personally, I'm becoming less of a fan of yellow hi-viz. I subscribe to the theory that many car drivers will subconsciously associate yellow hi-viz with static road furniture; which, in my mind, explains some of the dreadful anticipation (e.g. left hooks as the object they've just overtaken is static) and close passes (hi-viz bollards, being inanimate objects, don't mind being passed closely).

(The thing I was trying to google was a link to a report of some research about driver / hi-viz object association; can't find it now...)

[EDIT] DEAF hi-vis tabards in a range of colours: https://www.amazon.co.uk/Deaf-Printed-Hi-Vis-Vest-Waistcoat/dp/B00P1ITUV6?th=1
"Yes please" said Squirrel "biscuits are our favourite things."

Re: HI VIZ
« Reply #53 on: September 12, 2017, 10:55:47 am »

If only it were orange as, personally, I'm becoming less of a fan of yellow hi-viz. I subscribe to the theory that many car drivers will subconsciously associate yellow hi-viz with static road furniture; which, in my mind, explains some of the dreadful anticipation (e.g. left hooks as the object they've just overtaken is static) and close passes (hi-viz bollards, being inanimate objects, don't mind being passed closely).


For drivers who, like me, are colour-blind, orange is NOT a good choice for hi-viz, as it blends really nicely into a green background. Yellow is the only colour which stands out against anything.

Kim

  • An appetite for the epic, but no real stamina
Re: HI VIZ
« Reply #54 on: September 12, 2017, 12:34:42 pm »
From my experience of people wearing it on night rides, the Proviz stuff is so effective it could be that they were giving you a wide berth to avoid being dazzled by it!

That isn't as far-fetched as it might sound if you've never seen it.

It's particularly obnoxious if your light source is very close to the axis of your eyes.  Head torches need to be turned right down in the vicinity of them, and I discovered that with the higher bottom bracket on the Red Baron, riding a short distance behind someone in Provis gives much the same effect.

I've not seen one from inside a car yet.
Watching the TV without subtitles is like riding up a hill without using the gears :)

Kim

  • An appetite for the epic, but no real stamina
Re: HI VIZ
« Reply #55 on: September 12, 2017, 12:42:58 pm »
For drivers who, like me, are colour-blind, orange is NOT a good choice for hi-viz, as it blends really nicely into a green background. Yellow is the only colour which stands out against anything.

For me, 'yellow' is just the word for 'light green', though I agree about orange being poor contrast against foliage.  (The railways can get away with it, because they *know* their drivers aren't colourblind).

Practically, whatever colour you pick will be poor contrast against some background.  My colourblind perspective on what makes you visible is not to get hung up on particular colours, but to concentrate on being a recognisable human shape rather than wearing complicated patterns that effectively act as camouflage, even if they're brightly coloured.


Though IMHO this sort of thing is more relevant to being spotted by rescue helicopters than inattentive motorists.
Watching the TV without subtitles is like riding up a hill without using the gears :)

Re: HI VIZ
« Reply #56 on: September 12, 2017, 12:54:10 pm »
Railways use orange rather than yellow because it contrasts with the grey/brown of ballast and it's sufficiently different from any railway signal aspect.
Pleasure spreads out on the map and the knapsack is full of joy.

Re: HI VIZ
« Reply #57 on: September 12, 2017, 01:03:55 pm »
I tend to go for pink when I want visibility: my favourite gilet's a pink and navy striped Rapha one, which seems pretty good. That said, I see the Proviz stuff now comes in purple so I may well invest...

Kim

  • An appetite for the epic, but no real stamina
Re: HI VIZ
« Reply #58 on: September 12, 2017, 01:11:28 pm »
Railways use orange rather than yellow because it contrasts with the grey/brown of ballast

Surely yellow, being brighter, contrasts more?


Quote
and it's sufficiently different from any railway signal aspect.

That makes more sense.  In as much as people being able to tell what colour tiny things in the distance are ever makes sense.  Witchcraft, I tell you!
Watching the TV without subtitles is like riding up a hill without using the gears :)

Re: HI VIZ
« Reply #59 on: September 12, 2017, 01:32:02 pm »
When I worked for Northants Council, we used orange hi-viz for the kids and instructors, when most private firms use yellow.
Bikes are for riding, not cleaning!

3peaker

  • RRTY Mad 26-up! Still going
Re: HI VIZ
« Reply #60 on: September 12, 2017, 02:28:18 pm »
When I worked for Northants Council, we used orange hi-viz for the kids and instructors, when most private firms use yellow.

My Gloucestershire CC Bikeability 'Issue Tabard' is Orange upper 1/2, Yellow lower 1/2. Black Letters INSTRUCTOR in the upper half 4cm x 25cm band. This tabard would be worn in the company of students wearing yellow.
SteveP

Promoting : Cheltenham Flyer 200, Cider with Rosie 150, Character Coln 100 17 Mar 18, Gospel Pass 200, YatMon150 (Imp 100), Hoarwithy 100, 9 Jun 18.

Re: HI VIZ
« Reply #61 on: September 12, 2017, 02:31:25 pm »
I tend to go for pink when I want visibility: my favourite gilet's a pink and navy striped Rapha one, which seems pretty good. That said, I see the Proviz stuff now comes in purple so I may well invest...

Just out of interest, does the pink seem to work for getting any more consideration?  Seeing as there was that study with the false long hair which IIRC had a positive effect.  Just pondering.

Re: HI VIZ
« Reply #62 on: September 12, 2017, 03:46:07 pm »
When I worked for Northants Council, we used orange hi-viz for the kids and instructors, when most private firms use yellow.

My Gloucestershire CC Bikeability 'Issue Tabard' is Orange upper 1/2, Yellow lower 1/2. Black Letters INSTRUCTOR in the upper half 4cm x 25cm band. This tabard would be worn in the company of students wearing yellow.
Some of us got those Respro orange/yellow pocketed and zipped vests, which we preferred to the orange "road safety officer" ones. Bikeability was privatised, along with many NCC departments. I still wear my Respro when instructing, which isn't much now (even wore it on a few Audaxes). I don't always wear hi-viz on the road, but light coloured jerseys. Vehicles still come in all colours, and I get fed up of drivers going on about cyclists not wearing hi-viz in daytime as well as night.
Bikes are for riding, not cleaning!

Re: HI VIZ
« Reply #63 on: September 12, 2017, 04:37:52 pm »
Just out of interest, does the pink seem to work for getting any more consideration?  Seeing as there was that study with the false long hair which IIRC had a positive effect.  Just pondering.

If you ask someone who has not been knocked off, you might get a biased result! 
#magicjackets

dim

Re: HI VIZ
« Reply #64 on: September 12, 2017, 10:32:36 pm »

If only it were orange as, personally, I'm becoming less of a fan of yellow hi-viz. I subscribe to the theory that many car drivers will subconsciously associate yellow hi-viz with static road furniture; which, in my mind, explains some of the dreadful anticipation (e.g. left hooks as the object they've just overtaken is static) and close passes (hi-viz bollards, being inanimate objects, don't mind being passed closely).


For drivers who, like me, are colour-blind, orange is NOT a good choice for hi-viz, as it blends really nicely into a green background. Yellow is the only colour which stands out against anything.

Yikes ....

I'd be very nervous if I'm on a bicycle and I knew that an elderly person in their 70's who is 'colour blind' n was driving on a busy fast road  and was heading towards me ....

 is this legal? (being allowed to drive if you are colour blind?)

Kim

  • An appetite for the epic, but no real stamina
Re: HI VIZ
« Reply #65 on: September 12, 2017, 10:55:12 pm »
is this legal? (being allowed to drive if you are colour blind?)

Yes, perfectly legal.  In practice the only thing that's really affected is traffic lights[1], and not in the way that people with normal colour vision assume[2].  Spotting vulnerable road users in $generic_poo_colour clothing is a basic driving skill, even if you're not colourblind, because sometimes it is actually generic poo colour.

Train drivers and pilots and so on have tougher colour vision requirements, because they have to be able to discriminate coloured signal lights at a distance.


I'm not sure what being elderly has to do with it?  Most colour vision deficiency is congenital.  If a person suffers from, say, macular degeneration, then the loss of central vision is a far more serious issue and they rightly shouldn't be driving.


[1] Okay, cats eyes road studs on the motorway are colour-coded, but if you need the colours to tell what the lanes are, you're doing it wrong.
[2] The issue tends to be one of recognising that a distant light at night is a traffic signal, rather than some other random luminaire.  Telling the state of a known traffic light once you're close enough for it to matter isn't a problem, as the colours are chosen to minimise ambiguity, and it can be done by shape if necessary.
Watching the TV without subtitles is like riding up a hill without using the gears :)

frankly frankie

  • I kid you not
    • Virtual Alps
Re: HI VIZ
« Reply #66 on: September 12, 2017, 11:08:30 pm »
I'd be very nervous if I'm on a bicycle and I knew that an elderly person in their 70's who is 'colour blind' n was driving on a busy fast road  and was heading towards me ....
 is this legal? (being allowed to drive if you are colour blind?)

(or elderly?)

(the answer's the same)
"This is a complex subject, with a need for more than one highlighter pen."

Karla

  • car(e) free
Re: HI VIZ
« Reply #67 on: September 13, 2017, 10:02:11 am »

If only it were orange as, personally, I'm becoming less of a fan of yellow hi-viz. I subscribe to the theory that many car drivers will subconsciously associate yellow hi-viz with static road furniture; which, in my mind, explains some of the dreadful anticipation (e.g. left hooks as the object they've just overtaken is static) and close passes (hi-viz bollards, being inanimate objects, don't mind being passed closely).


For drivers who, like me, are colour-blind, orange is NOT a good choice for hi-viz, as it blends really nicely into a green background. Yellow is the only colour which stands out against anything.

Yikes ....

I'd be very nervous if I'm on a bicycle and I knew that an elderly person in their 70's who is 'colour blind' n was driving on a busy fast road  and was heading towards me ....

 is this legal? (being allowed to drive if you are colour blind?)

How about you try educating yourself before putting 'scare quotes' around it? 
Latest tour journal: Bucharest to Berlin

rr

Re: HI VIZ
« Reply #68 on: September 13, 2017, 01:11:31 pm »
Railways use orange rather than yellow because it contrasts with the grey/brown of ballast

Surely yellow, being brighter, contrasts more?


Quote
and it's sufficiently different from any railway signal aspect.

That makes more sense.  In as much as people being able to tell what colour tiny things in the distance are ever makes sense.  Witchcraft, I tell you!
I thought that the orange was so it shows up under sodium lights.
The other advantage is that it does not attract insects to the same extent, I have been on rural construction sites where no one can bare to wear a yellow hivis.

Sent from my XT1562 using Tapatalk


dim

Re: HI VIZ
« Reply #69 on: September 13, 2017, 03:03:05 pm »

If only it were orange as, personally, I'm becoming less of a fan of yellow hi-viz. I subscribe to the theory that many car drivers will subconsciously associate yellow hi-viz with static road furniture; which, in my mind, explains some of the dreadful anticipation (e.g. left hooks as the object they've just overtaken is static) and close passes (hi-viz bollards, being inanimate objects, don't mind being passed closely).


For drivers who, like me, are colour-blind, orange is NOT a good choice for hi-viz, as it blends really nicely into a green background. Yellow is the only colour which stands out against anything.

Yikes ....

I'd be very nervous if I'm on a bicycle and I knew that an elderly person in their 70's who is 'colour blind' n was driving on a busy fast road  and was heading towards me ....

 is this legal? (being allowed to drive if you are colour blind?)

How about you try educating yourself before putting 'scare quotes' around it?

to be honest, I never knew that people who are colour blind are allowed to drive  :-[

there's lots of things that seem wrong to me as regards driving .... these are just some of my thoughts:

1. people who are on medication such as anti depressants etc should not be allowed to drive

2. People who suffer from illnesses such as Dementia etc should not be allowed to drive

3. People who have anger issues should not be allowed to drive (people who need anger management/counselling)

4. People over the age of 60 should be forced to do a driving test on a regular basis (most of my near passes have been from older people)

5. on a side note....politicians etc and people who make decisions that affect masses should be drink and drug tested on a regular basis:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LrsPbtPjGfI

but Hey .... thats just me  :P

Karla

  • car(e) free
Re: HI VIZ
« Reply #70 on: September 13, 2017, 04:21:28 pm »
Why wouldn't we be allowed to drive?  Or do you just hold these sorts of prejudices on no evidence, like "People called dim shouldn't be allowed to use a computer"?  I mean, you do know what colourblindness *is*, right?

...

...

... no, thought not.
Latest tour journal: Bucharest to Berlin

Re: HI VIZ
« Reply #71 on: September 13, 2017, 04:51:53 pm »
I guess there's a reason dim chose that user name.

dogtrousers

  • Pantaloon
Re: HI VIZ
« Reply #72 on: September 13, 2017, 05:14:15 pm »
My colour vision is utterly pants (but I'm not yet in my 70s, so Dim's OK there).  It doesn't affect my driving or cycling.  As Kim says, the reflective cats eye things on slip roads are a different colour to other ones, so I've been told.  I've never been able to detect that, but it's not a problem. 

By the way, I had become so tired of people referring to colours like turquoise and mauve that mean little to me, that I decided to invent my own colour:  Penge.   Unfortunately it eventually backfired on me as I referred to something as being penge, and my wife corrected me, saying "That's not penge, it taupe".  I can't even tell my own made-up colour.  I may entitle my autobiography "The Colour Penge".

Re: HI VIZ
« Reply #73 on: September 13, 2017, 05:17:53 pm »
Everyone is colour blind to a greater or lesser extent in dim light

Dogs have a limited colour spectrum compared to the majority of people and are pretty good at spotting moving objects.

<i>Marmite slave</i>

mattc

  • "Hannibal"
  • n.b. have grown beard since photo taken
    • Didcot Audaxes
Re: HI VIZ
« Reply #74 on: September 13, 2017, 08:22:23 pm »
By the way, I had become so tired of people referring to colours like turquoise and mauve that mean little to me, that I decided to invent my own colour:  Penge.   Unfortunately it eventually backfired on me as I referred to something as being penge, and my wife corrected me, saying "That's not penge, it taupe".

 ;D
Has never ridden RAAM
---------
No.11  Because of the great host of those who dislike the least appearance of "swank " when they travel the roads and lanes. - From Kuklos' 39 Articles