Author Topic: Uber loses London licence  (Read 3231 times)

ian

  • fatuously disingenuous
    • The Suburban Survival Guide
Re: Uber loses London licence
« Reply #75 on: September 28, 2017, 11:55:40 am »
I think in general they charge around the same rates as minicabs, it's the metered cabs they severely undercut. I did Lisbon airport to my hotel the other day and that was €19.20 in a metered cab vs €8.42 by Uber. In San Diego, from the airport of it was $24 plus tips vs. $8.

And for the behemoth, Central London to the Asbestos Palace cost my wife £150ish in a black cab (I've never dared try!). £35 by Uber.
another space cat industries product
making the future more miaowy™

Re: Uber loses London licence
« Reply #76 on: September 28, 2017, 12:04:28 pm »
In an Uber related anecdote, the girlfriend was at one time living in London, and in a rather 'refreshed' state at the end of the night summoned an Uber to take her home. Except her 'home' location was set still as her family home near to Dudley. She fell asleep in the back and only awoke on the M6 somewhere near Birmingham.

Re: Uber loses London licence
« Reply #77 on: September 28, 2017, 12:08:31 pm »
Just found the maximum fare rates for hackneys in Bristol.* Looks like the low end of Uber rates are pretty much in line with those, though obviously they're free to undercut or charge more as they like.
https://www.bristol.gov.uk/documents/20182/34604/Final%20Agreed%20Tariff%20Card%20Oct%202013.pdf/3e4dcdd6-9b4d-4712-9b2c-620328aabaf2

*Zoinks, it's ACB v ACH all over again and this time it's official!
Pleasure spreads out on the map and the knapsack is full of joy.

Re: Uber loses London licence
« Reply #78 on: September 28, 2017, 12:10:11 pm »
But let's not forget their licence in London has been rejected for delays in reporting criminal allegations against their drivers to the police, possible fiddling of medical certificates and alleged regulatory interference, not anything to do with fares.
Pleasure spreads out on the map and the knapsack is full of joy.

Re: Uber loses London licence
« Reply #79 on: September 28, 2017, 12:34:57 pm »
But let's not forget their licence in London has been rejected for delays in reporting criminal allegations against their drivers to the police

Agreed, and this is the single easiest thing for Uber to resolve. Previously they were relying on the reporting they were making to TfL but this obviously isn't enough:-

One bit though from https://www.londonreconnections.com/2017/understanding-uber-not-app/ (emphasis mine):-

"
The first of these related to a ‘road rage’ incident in which the driver had appeared to pull a gun, causing the passenger to flee the scene. Uber dismissed the driver, having determined that the weapon was a pepper spray, not a handgun, but failed to report the incident to the police. As a result, the police only became aware of the incident a month later when TfL, as operator, processed ULL’s incident reports.

At this point, the police attempted to investigate (pepper spray is an offensive weapon in the UK) but, the letter indicated, Uber refused to provide more information unless a formal request via the Data Protection Act was submitted.
"

They make it sound like complying with the DPA (refusing to give out protected personal data unless a formal request is provided) is a bad thing.

, possible fiddling of medical certificates

None of which Uber itself deals with. That's something between the driver and TfL directly (and/or via a third party agreed by TfL), same with the DBS certification. The dodgy GPs offering medical certificates are not Uber's problem either.

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/london/tfl-accused-of-using-bogus-charge-to-strip-uber-of-its-licence-a3642491.html

and alleged regulatory interference, not anything to do with fares.

Greyball was a major fuckup, there's nowhere for them to hide on that although I'm not sure of its specific relevance to Uber in London. If they were licensed and complying with the regulations then they should have no problem with people working for the regulators from using their service. I think they're getting beaten up for Greyball existing, not for it being used in London (I don't think there is an evidence that it has been used in London).
"Yes please" said Squirrel "biscuits are our favourite things."

Re: Uber loses London licence
« Reply #80 on: September 28, 2017, 12:53:14 pm »
The impression I got from those London Reconnections articles was that because Greyball had been used that way in some US cities, TfL were deeply suspicious of it although nothing could be proven in London. That its existence was, in effect, a greyball against the company from a regulator's point of view.
Pleasure spreads out on the map and the knapsack is full of joy.

Re: Uber loses London licence
« Reply #81 on: September 28, 2017, 01:27:59 pm »
The point of Greyball is that it was an attempt to get away with operating without a license in Portland (and some other US cities), by making it hard/impossible for agents of the regulator to get rides on the service to gather evidence. And despite getting caught Uber are still able to operate in Portland (I wonder how much that cost and who received what...)

Uber (London) has only ever operated under a valid license, so Greyball isn't really relevant as Uber would have had no reason to deploy it in London - they weren't hiding from anything.

(Uber could, theoretically, have drivers that didn't have a private hire license, but that would be suicide for the London operation. So I suppose TfL might want to have its own employees be able to take random journeys to gather their own evidence of whether drivers are legit or not, but that's much different from knowingly operating without a license. Also the tactics used to identify the transportation agencies employees in Portland, in order to greyball them, wouldn't work anywhere near as well in London: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greyball and now that Greyball is known it should be quite obvious to anyone that has used Uber whether they have been Greyballed or not.)

Also, from that article, the point of Uber's separation between Uber BV (the Dutch app company) and Uber London Limited (the minicab firm that gets all of its jobs from Uber BV) is that it is Uber London Limited that requires the operating license from TfL, not Uber BV. ULL doesn't have Greyball itself as it isn't in charge of the app. TfL might find they have no legal right to deny ULL an operating license based solely on the actions of a separate legal entity (Uber BV) no matter how awful their practices are (or have been).
"Yes please" said Squirrel "biscuits are our favourite things."

Re: Uber loses London licence
« Reply #82 on: October 05, 2017, 12:43:37 pm »
Uber will fail in its bid to become the Amazon of taxis, says someone.
Quote
So can Uber afford to become ethical? Its growth to date has been so costly that even after the raft of regulations it has managed to sidestep, and measures forcing down the income of its drivers, it is losing billions every year. In a properly regulated market, in which Uber has to give its drivers appropriate employment protections, and passengers the safeguards they need, its goal of apparently aping Amazon becomes even harder.

If Uber can achieve market dominance before it runs out of funding, the inefficiencies in its model cease to matter. Society will simply have to carry the cost of higher fares and lower driver wages.

If it fails to achieve near monopoly status and has to continue to compete against local firms, in my view it has little hope of ever repaying its investors. For customers that travel to different cities frequently, Uber’s scale gives them a clear edge. For everyone else, is an app slightly shinier than its competitors’ clones enough to outweigh the higher fares that should come with Uber’s model?

Should Uber ultimately fail, it would open up the possibility of a taxi company fit for the 21st century: one that harnesses the possibilities of digital technologies not to enrich venture capital, but drivers themselves, in the form of cooperatives like the one currently developing in the absence of Uber in Austin, Texas.
http://www.citymetric.com/business/uber-trying-be-amazon-it-ll-fail-3374

I like the way he ends on an optimistic note.
Pleasure spreads out on the map and the knapsack is full of joy.