Author Topic: More motorised doping  (Read 1431 times)

David Martin

  • Thats Dr Oi You thankyouverymuch
"By creating we think. By living we learn" - Patrick Geddes

Karla

  • car(e) free
    • Lost Byway - a Pacific bike ride
Re: More motorised doping
« Reply #1 on: October 01, 2017, 09:54:48 pm »
My dad's cricket club used to go down to play matches against the amateur teams down there.

I could have sworn I heard a high-pitched whining noise every time the ball came past, and also in the bats of some of their batsmen  ;)

Re: More motorised doping
« Reply #2 on: October 06, 2017, 11:38:52 am »
This is only the tip of the iceberg I am sure. There ius already pharmaceutical doping in sportives in France, motors will surely be there already. I would expect to see a few in the Brevet Montagnards (where there is no financial reward) and almost certainly in the BRA. Question is what about PBP? Look out for riders swapping apparently unused batteries bidons outside the controls. Need a well organised support team though to keep them charged up.

Re: More motorised doping
« Reply #3 on: October 06, 2017, 12:14:15 pm »
A vivax motor costs about £2500.

A pair of Enve carbon wheels costs more.

Given that spending more on light aero kit confers a speed advantage, if it's a speed advantage one is after, where is the money better spent?

ElyDave

  • Royal and Ancient Polar Bear Society member 263583
Re: More motorised doping
« Reply #4 on: October 06, 2017, 12:45:28 pm »
there was an amateur racer from around these parts banned a few years ago for using EPO. With no money at stake, and no opportunity to go pro, I really can't get my head around that logic.

For a sportive or audax, does it really matter? Motors I mean - if they let people continue to ride?
“Procrastination is the thief of time, collar him.” –Charles Dickens

Re: More motorised doping
« Reply #5 on: October 06, 2017, 01:20:06 pm »
Remember the TdF 2013 when Froome attacked Quintana?

He got a huge and instantaneous gap from a seated position and a high cadence. It looked weird. I'm no expert, but Greg Lemond is, and he called bollocks on it.

Later, Froome s HR, speed and power data was leaked, and it showed that his heart rate barely rose during the crushing attack.


Re: More motorised doping
« Reply #6 on: October 06, 2017, 01:31:10 pm »
How is this stuff monitored?

Re: More motorised doping
« Reply #7 on: October 06, 2017, 02:04:27 pm »
In pro cycling? Somebody waves an iPad at a bike.

Re: More motorised doping
« Reply #8 on: October 06, 2017, 02:22:26 pm »
Foolproof, then!

David Martin

  • Thats Dr Oi You thankyouverymuch
Re: More motorised doping
« Reply #9 on: October 06, 2017, 07:49:32 pm »
BTDT. At the last SC commissaires conference we got to play with the Ipad and magnetometer thing. Not foolproof but more likely to give a false positive than a false negative.
"By creating we think. By living we learn" - Patrick Geddes

Re: More motorised doping
« Reply #10 on: October 07, 2017, 07:44:21 am »
there was an amateur racer from around these parts banned a few years ago for using EPO. With no money at stake, and no opportunity to go pro, I really can't get my head around that logic.

It's the logic of someone who lies to himself. I think amateurs who get caught at cheating with EPO/motors should be strongly advised to seek help from a psychologist.

Re: More motorised doping
« Reply #11 on: October 07, 2017, 07:52:26 am »
Remember that guy, Dan Stevens, who got caught using EPO (refused to give a sample), got banned, tried to get a ban reduction by grassing up his supplier (A creepy guy called Dr Boner), had his attempt denied, spent loads of money trying to fight the ban to no avail?

He was a shit 3rd Cat cyclist.

He then whistleblew on UKAD for ignoring his info and appeared on news interviews and even a broadcast of his appearance at the DCMS hearings. 

I think all that was part of the disillusion. In his head he was Floyd Landis.

Living the dream....

Re: More motorised doping
« Reply #12 on: October 07, 2017, 08:23:39 am »
BTDT. At the last SC commissaires conference we got to play with the Ipad and magnetometer thing. Not foolproof but more likely to give a false positive than a false negative.

They need to be passed over the bike very slowly at a distance of no more than 10mm to avoid false positives. When you see the way these tests are conducted by UCI officials this is not happening.

There was an interesting piece on France2 recently where the inventor, Varjas, took several wheels and bikes to a lab in Germany. Cut a long story short, he demonstrated that the iPad could only detect the basic model of motor, and only if used correctly. He claims having an undectable motor is just a question of budget.

He brought a carbon wheel with an "electro-magnetic booster" hidden in the rim. Undetectable by iPad.

I'll try and find a link to it, albeit it will be in French.

Here you go:

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=348897418885460&id=162254350883102

(of course, Varjas has a vested financial interest in his products being shown to be undetectable)

David Martin

  • Thats Dr Oi You thankyouverymuch
Re: More motorised doping
« Reply #13 on: October 07, 2017, 04:35:19 pm »
BTDT. At the last SC commissaires conference we got to play with the Ipad and magnetometer thing. Not foolproof but more likely to give a false positive than a false negative.

They need to be passed over the bike very slowly at a distance of no more than 10mm to avoid false positives. When you see the way these tests are conducted by UCI officials this is not happening.
Some selective choice of video where officials are not doing it correctly says absolutely nothing about the number of tests that are done properly. ANd you mean false negatives.

I've used one of these. It isn't hard to use and it should pick up any electronic shifting gear as well as motors.

Quote
There was an interesting piece on France2 recently where the inventor, Varjas, took several wheels and bikes to a lab in Germany. Cut a long story short, he demonstrated that the iPad could only detect the basic model of motor, and only if used correctly. He claims having an undectable motor is just a question of budget.

He brought a carbon wheel with an "electro-magnetic booster" hidden in the rim. Undetectable by iPad.

I'll try and find a link to it, albeit it will be in French.

Here you go:

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=348897418885460&id=162254350883102

(of course, Varjas has a vested financial interest in his products being shown to be undetectable)


It wasn't exactly a high point of scientific journalism.

The point about the testing that is done (a portable X-ray being out of budget) is that it will deter casual cheaters without an extortionate budget. At present though there are only a small handful of testers in UK so the chance of being tested are low.
"By creating we think. By living we learn" - Patrick Geddes

Re: More motorised doping
« Reply #14 on: October 07, 2017, 07:32:50 pm »
Do you get casual cheaters in World tour races?

Re: More motorised doping
« Reply #15 on: October 07, 2017, 08:54:20 pm »
Do you get casual cheaters in World tour races?

I think the answer to that is that if you know (or even think) that they are cheating then they are being very casual indeed - positively careless in fact  :facepalm:

Cheating technology always being by nature a leap in advance of detection technology, given the budgets and rider salaries involved, any rider serious about his cheating should be able to get away with it. The ones that get caught are necessarily minor players in the game or else making a mistake in their protocols somewhere.