Author Topic: Tour de France 2018  (Read 35492 times)

Re: Tour de France 2018
« Reply #50 on: July 02, 2018, 06:16:59 am »
Samuel D (new to the sport of cycling) doesn't know about the 7 year gap in TdF results from 1999 to 2005, doesn't know about 2006, nor 2010 (and 2011 Giro), and therefore doesn't understand why ASO want doper Froome to fuck off.

Quote from: Samuel D
 The Froome situation has only arisen because of UCI corruption/incompetence

No. It's only arisen because Froome doped.


Re: Tour de France 2018
« Reply #51 on: July 02, 2018, 08:55:42 am »
Mere posturing for PR purposes. Prudhomme knows his ban will not stand. The Froome situation has only arisen because of UCI corruption/incompetence (their leak to Le Monde and The Guardian), without which Froome’s AAF would be confidential as the UCI’s rules require. Is he now to be punished by ASO for a breach of his own privacy? Imagine how that would sit with WADA, whose rules via the UCI Froome has followed to arrive at this mess.

Lappartient and Prudhomme are cowards who should be standing up for the rule of law rather than kowtowing to ignorant public opinion in France and elsewhere. But they are self-serving cynics and now it seems in cahoots into the bargain. It’s they who have harmed the reputation of cycling.

This latest move makes me wonder if Prudhomme knows Froome will be cleared of wrongdoing by the UCI earlier than expected, before the Tour starts.

It's France's cultural heritage and ASO's property and ignorant and ill-informed public opinion is a part of that cultural heritage. That is what sells the rights, justifies the expense of the operation and even persuades the police and gendarmerie to sometimes forgo family holidays and overtime pay to make it work. That is what it is! Living in France you should understand at least part of that.

In the past ASO has been guilty of not paying enough attention to excluding riders whose presence has a detrimental effect on the image of their event. (They also own the Dakar and have equally been criticised for events downgrading the image of that event). It is not surprising that they are a bit sensitive over it. Froome, like Armstrong before him, has tended to take a position of being more important than the event, which is not going to help to persuade ASO that his presence actually brings added value to their event. The problem is that, doped or not, he has adopted the posture of a doper and that is not going to help his appeal to the public or the organisers.

there could have been a solution which would have been for Froome to decide to concentrate on getting the case cleared as soon as possible and declare that he wasn't competing until it was cleared. If he had done that his popular standing (at least on the continent) would have been considerably improved and some organisers would have been prepared to pay up more readily for his eventual presence. If you want to be considered great it helps to behave accordingly. It ain't happened which is why we are here.

Obviously I take the standpoint that a big part of the delay in settling the case is due to lawyers and team organisation deciding it might be in their interest (Froome is on a GT roll, lets make the most of it while it's there!)

Torslanda

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Re: Tour de France 2018
« Reply #52 on: July 02, 2018, 09:20:36 am »
20 years since the Festina affair, has anything really changed?

No, Flatus. Don't answer that. Strictly rhetorical, I fear . . .
VELOMANCER

Well that's the more blunt way of putting it but as usual he's dead right.

Re: Tour de France 2018
« Reply #53 on: July 02, 2018, 10:32:48 am »
And he's back in as UCI drop case.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cycling/44679483
“There is no point in using the word 'impossible' to describe something that has clearly happened.”
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Re: Tour de France 2018
« Reply #54 on: July 02, 2018, 10:41:09 am »
I wonder what Hinault will say now...

This is interesting because the hearing was supposed to be tomorrow with the decision announced on Wednesday.

What a mess.

Re: Tour de France 2018
« Reply #55 on: July 02, 2018, 10:47:24 am »
And he's back in as UCI drop case.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cycling/44679483
That's the doping case that's been dropped. ASO have still got to decide on whether they'll let him race and given that they'd initially refused based on an allegation, there's no guarantee that they'll change their minds.
Sorting my life out, one shed at a time.

Re: Tour de France 2018
« Reply #56 on: July 02, 2018, 11:09:48 am »
It's all coming together nicely...  :P
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Mr Larrington

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Re: Tour de France 2018
« Reply #57 on: July 02, 2018, 11:10:25 am »

Bethany's mum is a total skank. #justsayin'


Bethany [8]:Tell me something I don't know, Mr Wiseguy!
i’m confused. I had assumed that [8] was reference to the age of Bethany, but she was that last year so it can’t be that. Is it reference to her position amongst her siblings perhaps? Please someone to be telling me what it’s all about

Bethany [8]:Last year: Bethany (7) innit!  Then I had a birfday it was wik there was CAEK an kumquats innit cept mi mum got pist on wite litening teh fukn c-o-w ne way dont care bout sily old C Froome onli W Barguil an G Thomas onli that 4 mi bff 5 she stil fancis him sumfin rotn lol xXx bethany
Bethany's Mum:Befny!  'oo u torkin' to?  I warned u!
Bethany [8]:Jus' sum geezer tryna sell mi dubbl-glazin' Mum innit! (Aside) She'll believe ne old rubbish when she's off her tits liek wot she is now lol!  Tell Super D to leave teh hats @ home!
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Re: Tour de France 2018
« Reply #58 on: July 02, 2018, 11:14:44 am »
The actual press release is a bit more generous.

http://www.uci.ch/pressreleases/uci-statement-anti-doping-proceedings-involving-christopher-froome/

It seems like an awful lot has changed since Festina / Armstrong. The UCI no longer has to deal with mass use of illegal drugs and techniques. Instead they are having to quibble over if a rider's use of legal drugs is allowed or not based on tiny technicalities.

That's actually an improvement - if everyone is trying to obey the rules (to within 99.9999% or however close marginal gains can get) then changing the rules will actually be effective, as opposed to being a waste of time.

Re: Tour de France 2018
« Reply #59 on: July 02, 2018, 11:30:13 am »
So not the UCI dropping a clanger but being told by WADA that there's "nothing to see here"... not sure that WADA are seen as a corrupt bunch of "insert own expletive"  ::-) ::-) so are certain Forumites going to retract their words.

Please note I'm not trolling but I have noted that this thread has become the biggest 'Court of Public Opinion' from both sides of this debate, 'Guilty...hang him high' and 'he's the greatest thing since wheels were invented, let him be'.

Regardless of our own opinions the main point of any justice is that it can be fair and even and seen to be. Colouring everyone's ideas by leaking info isn't a credible method of business and it just opens up the lawyers' doors....

Oh well lets get ready to watch large inhalers chase riders up mountains........ :o :o

mattc

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Re: Tour de France 2018
« Reply #60 on: July 02, 2018, 12:08:14 pm »
Quote from: Samuel D
  The Froome situation has only arisen because of UCI corruption/incompetence

No. It's only arisen because Froome doped.

Well no, actually he didn't, so that's not why it has arisen.
Has never ridden RAAM
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LittleWheelsandBig

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Re: Tour de France 2018
« Reply #61 on: July 02, 2018, 12:14:30 pm »
I'm interested to see the reason that the case was dropped. I think this might be the first Salbutamol case to be overturned.
Wheel meet again, don't know where, don't know when...

Re: Tour de France 2018
« Reply #62 on: July 02, 2018, 12:28:20 pm »
Quote
a significant number of expert and scientific reports were submitted on behalf of Mr Froome. ...
Mr Froome then filed his explanation for the abnormal result on 4 June 2018, together with significant additional expert evidence. ...
WADA informed the UCI that it would accept, based on the specific facts of the case, that Mr Froome’s sample results do not constitute an AAF. ...
UCI

We don't know what the evidence (expert and scientific reports) was, and may never (?), but it seems to have been convincing as part of the explanation given...
"an inordinate fondness for beetles"

Re: Tour de France 2018
« Reply #63 on: July 02, 2018, 12:30:43 pm »
Quote from: Samuel D
  The Froome situation has only arisen because of UCI corruption/incompetence

No. It's only arisen because Froome doped.

Well no, actually he didn't, so that's not why it has arisen.

The situation arose because he failed a dope test.

He had the opportunity to explain it away, and it seems the UCI have accepted it.  If he had been unable to explain it away and the hearing was post-Tour we may have had another annulled result.

Anyway, as I've said before, the Salbutamol is a red-herring. It doesn't account for his ridiculous transformation from zero to greatest rider of his generation.

quixoticgeek

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Re: Tour de France 2018
« Reply #64 on: July 02, 2018, 12:51:23 pm »

Both BBC and Dutch media are reporting that's the Salbutamol case has been dropped.

Wonder what that does to Asos' case...

Can we get back to the bike racing now ?

J
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Re: Tour de France 2018
« Reply #65 on: July 02, 2018, 12:54:04 pm »
Is it actually that 'ridiculously' zero to hero though?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chris_Froome
Quote
2009
    1st Stage 2 Giro del Capo
    1st Anatomic Jock Race
    4th Road race, National Road Championships
    9th Gran Premio Nobili Rubinetterie
2010
    2nd Time trial, National Road Championships
    5th Time trial, Commonwealth Games
    9th Overall Tour du Haut Var
2011
    2nd Overall Vuelta a España

        1st Stage 17
        Held Jersey red.svg after Stage 10

    3rd Overall Tour of Beijing
2012
    2nd Overall Tour de France

        1st Stage 7
        Held Jersey polkadot.svg after Stage 7

    3rd Bronze medal olympic.svg Time trial, Olympic Games
    4th Overall Vuelta a España
"an inordinate fondness for beetles"

mattc

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Re: Tour de France 2018
« Reply #66 on: July 02, 2018, 01:00:32 pm »
Anyway, as I've said before, the Salbutamol is a red-herring. It doesn't account for his ridiculous transformation from zero to greatest rider of his generation.
this is starting to sound very like your assault on dear Sir Bradley. You assured us he was going down, despite no one finding him guilty of anything. How is that working out?
Has never ridden RAAM
---------
No.11  Because of the great host of those who dislike the least appearance of "swank " when they travel the roads and lanes. - From Kuklos' 39 Articles

Re: Tour de France 2018
« Reply #67 on: July 02, 2018, 01:07:25 pm »
Anyway, as I've said before, the Salbutamol is a red-herring. It doesn't account for his ridiculous transformation from zero to greatest rider of his generation.
this is starting to sound very like your assault on dear Sir Bradley. You assured us he was going down, despite no one finding him guilty of anything. How is that working out?

Did you miss the DCMS hearing Matt?

Re: Tour de France 2018
« Reply #68 on: July 02, 2018, 01:08:00 pm »
Is it actually that 'ridiculously' zero to hero though?

wiki
Quote
2009
    1st Stage 2 Giro del Capo
    1st Anatomic Jock Race
    4th Road race, National Road Championships
    9th Gran Premio Nobili Rubinetterie
2010
    2nd Time trial, National Road Championships
    5th Time trial, Commonwealth Games
    9th Overall Tour du Haut Var
2011
    2nd Overall Vuelta a España

        1st Stage 17
        Held Jersey red.svg after Stage 10

    3rd Overall Tour of Beijing
2012
    2nd Overall Tour de France

        1st Stage 7
        Held Jersey polkadot.svg after Stage 7

    3rd Bronze medal olympic.svg Time trial, Olympic Games
    4th Overall Vuelta a España

Errr....Yes.

Re: Tour de France 2018
« Reply #69 on: July 02, 2018, 01:13:20 pm »
I think ASO only wanted to stop Froome because they dislike Sky and Brailsford. They did, after all, allow Contador to ride whilst he waited for a hearing on his Clenbutarol case.
We are making a New World (Paul Nash, 1918)

Re: Tour de France 2018
« Reply #70 on: July 02, 2018, 01:20:01 pm »
Alternatively, they saw what happened after Contador rode and they didn't want a repeat.

Re: Tour de France 2018
« Reply #71 on: July 02, 2018, 01:23:44 pm »
Possibly, but they could easily have told Sky 6 months ago that Froome would be denied a place if the case was unresolved. Doing so less than a week before the start smacks of deliberate malice.
We are making a New World (Paul Nash, 1918)

Re: Tour de France 2018
« Reply #72 on: July 02, 2018, 01:25:20 pm »
To be fair to the ASO - who do have something of a chequered history on who has and hasn't been allowed to race at certain times in history - it's possible they threw in the 'we won't let Froome race' grenade to hurry up a statement from the UCI before we all sat there in front of 'their' great race hoping what we were watching was believable and whatever result was going to stand afterwards.

As for the case itself and peoples opinions on Team Sky can that go back to the existing thread (Sky - gaming the system) please?

Can't wait till Saturday, we can talk about bike racing then :)
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citoyen

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Re: Tour de France 2018
« Reply #73 on: July 02, 2018, 01:26:55 pm »
He had the opportunity to explain it away, and it seems the UCI have accepted it.

It's not so much the UCI accepting it as WADA, and telling UCI they haven't got a case. They'll surely have to take salbutamol off the banned/controlled list now.

I'd love to hear Ulissi's opinion on this.

Re: Tour de France 2018
« Reply #74 on: July 02, 2018, 01:29:46 pm »
...and Petacchi's