World cup 2018

[Cudzoziemiec]

So did Belgium win because they were less tactical* or because they're better?

Watched that and Panama-Tunisia on a Polish channel doing the flip-flop thing. Great commentator gaffes at the end. The England-Belgium commentator: "And that's the final score in Sweden-Switzerland." The Panama-Tunisia commentator: "Tunisia have lost the last game."

*Edit: Or because they were more tactical and prefer to play Japan than Colombia?

[Greenbank]

I'm not buying all this tactical loss nonsense.

Me neither. Especially when they have no idea yet who they'll face in the next round.

But they would know exactly who they'd face 2 hours before their game kicked off. (Only half of the groups get the benefit of this, so it's not a level playing field to begin with.)

I'm not buying all this tactical loss nonsense.

Professional sportsmen and women have it built into them from an early age to want to win every time they take to the field.

If you told a racing driver to back off whilst on form he is likely to do something stupid.

F1 drivers used to have to submit to team orders and slow down to let their team mate overtake them just before the line. It happens in many other sports.

It's always going to be a problem in something that isn't a straight knockout tournament.

The aim is to win the world cup. To do so you have to win against good teams, or they wouldn't be best in the world. The aim is not to get as far as possible and say well done chaps when they get off the plane.

If we lose (and I hope we don't) to Brazil or any other top team in the quarter final or the final it makes no difference, we didn't win the world cup.

Sure, but there is such a thing as an easier side of the draw. (Go back to Greece winning Euro 2004 for an example. France, Czech Republic and Denmark was considered 'easier' than England, Sweden and Netherlands. Greece lost their last group game to finish second although I'm not claiming they did this on purpose, it would have been risk as if Spain and Portugal had drawn then Greece would have been out.)

As it stood in Russia the rankings were:-
* Win the group and beat Japan (44) and you play Brazil (2) or Mexico (16), most likely Brazil (2). Beat them and you play France (7)/Uruguay (17)/Argentina (4) or Portugal (3) in the Semi.
* Come 2nd and you have to beat Colombia (13), then you play Sweden (25) or Switzerland (11). Beat them and you play Spain (8), Russia (65), Croatia (18) or Denmark (19) in that Semi.

The fairest thing would be a draw for the two places in the first knockout round rather than relying on group position (i.e. a draw decides whether England or Belgium go through as G1 or G2 or vice versa regardless of who finishes top or second). These draws would be conducted straight after the final group game of each group so there's no real difference for fans trying to book travel (since they wouldn't know which half of the draw they are in until this point anyway). But it takes away any tactical nonsense because there's no way to know who you'd end up playing until after your group games had been completed.

(A team knowing that is is guaranteed to qualify top of the group after just two games is very rare, they have to win both of their games and both other games have to be draws so that no other team can catch them with the one remaining game. Doesn't happen that often.)

[andyoxon]

HK is England's 1st choice striker and he was rested, so there may well have been an element of 'if we don't win, we'll just have to put up with a potentially easier path to the final, and have a fresh/uninjured HK for Colombia'...

[Von Broad]

So did Belgium win because they were less tactical* or because they're better?

Belgium B team were better than England B team is the way I saw it.

Had Rashford scored, then England would have been in the other half of the draw.

[Cudzoziemiec]

Belgium did bring on more of their A team at the end, such as the other Hazard.

[fuzzy]

Not the best gane of football I have ever seen but hey, we're through to the round of 16.

I haven't seen anything consistant from other teams to really frighten me at the moment. No one has had a blinding performance against similarly performing opposition. The rest of the tournament is a lottery for all. I don't know who is playing who next beyond our and Belgiums opponents but, The best rated team in the world, at this competition could end up playing the lowest ranked team left who decide today is the day we shine.

Last night game was made exceptionaly enjoyable for me though as I watched it at probably the best venue in the world. Mrs F, No.2 Son and his dearly beloved and I had tickets to watch the game courtesy of Carlsberg, at Wembley, including a stadium tour, free bar, free food, a 30 minute Lightning Seeds set plus punditery from Jeff Stelling, Lee Sharpe and Dennis Wise all capped off with post match pies. I were a bit tipsy and stuffed.

[mattc]

...

The fairest thing would be a draw for the two places in the first knockout round rather than relying on group position (i.e. a draw decides whether England or Belgium go through as G1 or G2 or vice versa regardless of who finishes top or second). These draws would be conducted straight after the final group game of each group so there's no real difference for fans trying to book travel (since they wouldn't know which half of the draw they are in until this point anyway). But it takes away any tactical nonsense because there's no way to know who you'd end up playing until after your group games had been completed.

(A team knowing that is is guaranteed to qualify top of the group after just two games is very rare, they have to win both of their games and both other games have to be draws so that no other team can catch them with the one remaining game. Doesn't happen that often.)

Yup, that seems to solve most of the issues 

[citoyen]

I haven't seen anything consistant from other teams to really frighten me at the moment. No one has had a blinding performance against similarly performing opposition. The rest of the tournament is a lottery for all. I don't know who is playing who next beyond our and Belgiums opponents but, The best rated team in the world, at this competition could end up playing the lowest ranked team left who decide today is the day we shine.

Belgium and Brazil are on track to meet in the QFs. That will be one hell of a game. Ought to be the final, really - the two best sides in the competition IMO.

[Legs]

Alternatively, draw each group-winner against a runner-up at random, after the group stage, in order to keep the perceived strongest teams apart.

[mattc]

Alternatively, draw each group-winner against a runner-up at random, after the group stage, in order to keep the perceived strongest teams apart.

yes, that's the simplest way; but that gives fans less time to arrange tickets/travel. hence GBank's plan, which looks a little convoluted at first reading.

[citoyen]

yes, that's the simplest way; but that gives fans less time to arrange tickets/travel

More pertinently, it gives teams less time to arrange travel, accommodation, training facilities etc.

[Pingu]

Though the Ingerlund vs. Belgium match produced one of the best World Cup moments evah 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=06zvENbvAa4

[Pingu]

Here you go - cards on table time, my prediction for who will be playing in each round for the rest of the tournament (I'm giving England the benefit of the doubt against Colombia and Mexico, but not against Spain):

16
France-Nigeria
Russia-Portugal
Spain-Uruguay
Croatia-Australia
Brazil-Germany
Belgium-Japan
Mexico-Switzerland
Colombia-England

2/8 


(Better than I would've managed )

[citoyen]

The Belgium-Spain final is still on!

[Greenbank]

Though the Ingerlund vs. Belgium match produced one of the best World Cup moments evah 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=06zvENbvAa4

He's dealt with it brilliantly on twitter too.

[andyoxon]

Fr v Arg.
Great game, good result.

[Legs]

... although I want to hate the French because of that dreadful game they played against Denmark, that was pretty impressive.

[pcolbeck]

Ronaldo going home. Oh dear what a shame.

[De Sisti]

Ronaldo, Messi, the Germans going home. Oh dear what a shame.

Who's missing? Spain, Brazil, Uraguay.

[Cudzoziemiec]

If they'd scrapped the first 90 minutes of this match and just played extra time, it would have been quite a good game to watch. The Russian fans clearly regard it as a victory before the first penalty has been taken, which is telling.

[Cudzoziemiec]

And rightly so!

[Cudzoziemiec]

So apparently Akinfeev joins the trinity of Russian keepers with Yashin and Dasayev!

[Von Broad]

Well, well.....

Guess the Russians don't really have to think too much about their game plan for the rest of the knockout matches 

Great for the tournament [host nation etc] but dreadful for Spain. I would say it's bad for football but actually Spain we not that great really - not what we've come to expect. Creativity went walkabouts in the face of resolute defending.

[rogerzilla]

The Russians parked the bus as soon as they had an equaliser.  Totally undeserved win.  Spain should have had a penalty but Putin probably knows where the VAR operators live.

[Peter]

It seemed to me as though Spain suffered a similar VAR decision to Serbia, who were definitely hard done by.  But (and I didn't see the whole match, because the sun is still shining in THE NORTH) I think Spain have gone the same way as Germany and have paid the price for relying on iconic players, often only capable of playing half a match because of their age, or in the case of defenders, relying on dirty tricks to make up for loss of pace, instead of biting the bullet and taking younger players.  I think and hope that Southgate has done the latter - not that we've had any truly iconic players for a long time.