Author Topic: Latest research results from Newcastle on Type 2 diabetes - positive  (Read 1654 times)

This update makes a good read.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-42154666

hellymedic

  • Just do it!
Re: Latest research results from Newcastle on Type 2 diabetes - positive
« Reply #1 on: December 05, 2017, 10:55:53 pm »
My brother's MiL is Type 2 but fairly slim. I don't think I'd like to see her on 800kcal/day.

This is encouraging for fat type 2s but not all Type 2s are overweight.

Re: Latest research results from Newcastle on Type 2 diabetes - positive
« Reply #2 on: December 06, 2017, 07:33:23 am »
My brother's MiL is Type 2 but fairly slim. I don't think I'd like to see her on 800kcal/day.

This is encouraging for fat type 2s but not all Type 2s are overweight.

Understood. Not sure if you've dug behind the been report at all, but Roy Taylor has been more focused on fatty liver than overall fat, which in itself may be only one of several drivers for t2d. It may also help to explain the remission rates seen.

hellymedic

  • Just do it!
Re: Latest research results from Newcastle on Type 2 diabetes - positive
« Reply #3 on: December 06, 2017, 01:28:44 pm »
Thanks. I had not dug!
My brothers seem to have wed into families that are type 2 time bombs.
# 1 has grossly obese wife
# 2 's wife's late parents were both Type 2. Wife has had gestational diabetes. Is of optimal BMI
# 3's MiL is a thin Type 2, like her father before her.

AIUI bariatric surgery also cures Type 2 diabetes.

Re: Latest research results from Newcastle on Type 2 diabetes - positive
« Reply #4 on: December 06, 2017, 03:23:12 pm »
Ah. Both my parents are overweight t2d, although my mother has eliminated symptoms as a result of moderating her carb intake and losing weight a bit (she is still 'chunky'). Sue's dad was also t2d, and was also overweight, although not to the extent of my parents.

I've read some of the stuff on bariatric surgery also leading to remissions.

It seems that several approaches have some significant success, apart from the 'drug of choice'. To be fair, I suspect that's because for many people (and as they are perceived by hard pressed GPs) a condition management pill is easier than actually changing lifestyle in a material fashion. Not stated as a criticism, so much as an observation.

ian

  • fatuously disingenuous
    • The Suburban Survival Guide
Re: Latest research results from Newcastle on Type 2 diabetes - positive
« Reply #5 on: December 06, 2017, 03:38:03 pm »
The biggest risk factor for type 2 diabetes is obesity (but not the only one). It's interesting but I don't think it tells us much that we don't already know and it's not the sort of diet that many will adhere to. Obviously it's still better to try and avoid the current situation where so many of us are overweight. That's a bigger thing (sadly literally), of course, but until we do, everything else is just window dressing.
!nataS pihsroW

Gattopardo

  • Lord of the sith
  • Overseaing the building of the death star
Re: Latest research results from Newcastle on Type 2 diabetes - positive
« Reply #6 on: December 31, 2017, 06:13:26 pm »
Using the title type 2 shows that the report isn't anything new or well researched.

ian

  • fatuously disingenuous
    • The Suburban Survival Guide
Re: Latest research results from Newcastle on Type 2 diabetes - positive
« Reply #7 on: December 31, 2017, 06:40:27 pm »
Yeah, well, what do twenty or so of the world's leading experts on diabetes know about diabetes. Bloody experts.
!nataS pihsroW

Gattopardo

  • Lord of the sith
  • Overseaing the building of the death star
Re: Latest research results from Newcastle on Type 2 diabetes - positive
« Reply #8 on: December 31, 2017, 07:16:57 pm »
Yeah, well, what do twenty or so of the world's leading experts on diabetes know about diabetes. Bloody experts.

That study was particularly pointless.  It is really old news, over a decade old.  Up there with stomach stapling to cure diabetes.  But hey they must be world leading.  If you get bored, looking to the discussions in to the many types of diabetes (why there are no thin 'type 2'),  the gut fauna bits, the mental/brain effects.  As someone who is experimented on by the leading diabetic experts 'cos I iz thpecial and there were a set of circumstances that worked in my favour.

The NHS way of dealing with diabetes is a joke.

ian

  • fatuously disingenuous
    • The Suburban Survival Guide
Re: Latest research results from Newcastle on Type 2 diabetes - positive
« Reply #9 on: December 31, 2017, 07:45:00 pm »
Oh, I don't think it's a useful study, but equally I don't think it's wrong. Diabetes Mellitus Type 2 is the correct medical term, and covers a range of aetiologies. We know losing excess weight is an effective treatment adn prevention and I'm also sure every author on that paper would agree that that the best treatment would be to ensure people don't become overweight in the first place. I'm also sure they'd agree that's a very difficult intervention. But at present we spent approximately 20:1 on treatment vs. prevention in the NHS (leastways, I read that somewhere so it may include lies, but it wouldn't surprise me).
!nataS pihsroW

Gattopardo

  • Lord of the sith
  • Overseaing the building of the death star
Re: Latest research results from Newcastle on Type 2 diabetes - positive
« Reply #10 on: December 31, 2017, 08:39:52 pm »
That is the thing, why do it then?  Why waste funding on something that is known?  In a certain chosen group of people certain known things work.

Or go atkins and no longer be diabetic.

ian

  • fatuously disingenuous
    • The Suburban Survival Guide
Re: Latest research results from Newcastle on Type 2 diabetes - positive
« Reply #11 on: December 31, 2017, 09:32:20 pm »
To show that it's an intervention that works and to support other conclusions. Wildly applicable? I doubt. But there is no-one-size-fits-all solution.

Sure, you can propose Atkins or similar, but then you might want to consider the cardiovascular implications.

I was about to write that it isn't simple. But to be honest, it is simple. Eat well and exercise. Simple isn't, of course, always easy. But frankly at the moment, if there's 20:1 ratio of treatment vs. prevention, we aren't really even trying. But then we have a government that is scientifically illiterate and in thrall to the junk food and drinks industry. And a population that doesn't want to be told it can't have its cake and eat it and then come back for seconds.
!nataS pihsroW

T42

  • Gaulois réfractaire
Re: Latest research results from Newcastle on Type 2 diabetes - positive
« Reply #12 on: January 01, 2018, 09:28:32 am »
Speaking of "curing" T2 diabetes is horseshit.  You can slim down a whale until its insulin supply matches demand, but the tendency is still there and can some back any time. Also, advancing age will likely diminish available insulin so that T2/T1 will always be waiting.

I had a right cackle when my cardiologist looked at my HbA1c score of 5.9% and exclaimed "Wow, there's no diabetes!" Sure, doc, let's go to the pâtisserie.
I dare eat all that may become a man.

But hold the oysters.

Re: Latest research results from Newcastle on Type 2 diabetes - positive
« Reply #13 on: January 01, 2018, 09:54:14 am »
But T42 diabetes is not defined as a genetic tendency to inadequate insulin production but as a glucose level above normal or a HbA1c above normal. So by definition a that moment in time you did not have diabetes.

ElyDave

  • Royal and Ancient Polar Bear Society member 263583
Re: Latest research results from Newcastle on Type 2 diabetes - positive
« Reply #14 on: January 01, 2018, 10:14:59 am »
so, with my HbA1c <50mmol/mol apart from the first one taken after diagnosis, am I no longer Type 1?

I watched a very interesting TED tak on type 2, which had some questioning of the mechanism, the script of it is here, havent found the video yet

https://blog.ted.com/why-our-understanding-of-obesity-and-diabetes-may-be-wrong-a-qa-with-surgeon-peter-attia/

It's a bit old now, but from my perspective led me to think quite a bit more about the pros/cons of a low carb approach to T1 management and understanding how insulin has multiple roles
“Procrastination is the thief of time, collar him.” –Charles Dickens

Re: Latest research results from Newcastle on Type 2 diabetes - positive
« Reply #15 on: January 01, 2018, 10:26:50 am »
Ely, I think it is how you achieved the HbA1c. If you did it as a result of medication then you still have diabetes. If you have NIDDM and change lifestyle so that you achieve a normal level without medication then you are no longer diabetic.

ElyDave

  • Royal and Ancient Polar Bear Society member 263583
Re: Latest research results from Newcastle on Type 2 diabetes - positive
« Reply #16 on: January 01, 2018, 10:31:18 am »
I achieved my HbA1c through exercise and diet, the only drug I used was insulin, like most of the population.  It's just that mine comes in a bottle.
“Procrastination is the thief of time, collar him.” –Charles Dickens

Gattopardo

  • Lord of the sith
  • Overseaing the building of the death star
Re: Latest research results from Newcastle on Type 2 diabetes - positive
« Reply #17 on: January 01, 2018, 05:43:53 pm »
.

Sure, you can propose Atkins or similar, but then you might want to consider the cardiovascular implications.

.

Dr Bernstein might disagree with you.

T42

  • Gaulois réfractaire
Re: Latest research results from Newcastle on Type 2 diabetes - positive
« Reply #18 on: January 02, 2018, 08:01:57 am »
But T42 diabetes is not defined as a genetic tendency to inadequate insulin production but as a glucose level above normal or a HbA1c above normal. So by definition a that moment in time you did not have diabetes.

Only managing an HbA1c of 5.9% by popping 1500 mg of metformin per day says I had. At 72 kg for 1m74 I'm not overweight, either, though I'd be happier at 68kg. Maybe I'll do that.
I dare eat all that may become a man.

But hold the oysters.

Gattopardo

  • Lord of the sith
  • Overseaing the building of the death star
Re: Latest research results from Newcastle on Type 2 diabetes - positive
« Reply #19 on: March 02, 2018, 03:14:30 am »
Maybe newcastle should speak to the scandawegians?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-43246261

ElyDave

  • Royal and Ancient Polar Bear Society member 263583
Re: Latest research results from Newcastle on Type 2 diabetes - positive
« Reply #20 on: March 03, 2018, 07:13:25 am »
that's beeen well known for years, I think the Scandiwegians have come up with soem useful classifications that might direct treament more usefully.

I'm a very late, autoimmune driven T1D, T2 is well known, other classifications currently in use include MODY, brittle diabetes etc, but again these tend to drive treatment more than anything
“Procrastination is the thief of time, collar him.” –Charles Dickens

hellymedic

  • Just do it!
Re: Latest research results from Newcastle on Type 2 diabetes - positive
« Reply #21 on: March 03, 2018, 12:32:25 pm »
I thought treatment was tailored to individual patients whatever the name/classification.

IMO (&IANADiabetologist) diabetes is a very broad spectrum of trouble managing sugar and insulin. It might be helpful to classify into five subcategories but there are more than five colours in a picture...

ElyDave

  • Royal and Ancient Polar Bear Society member 263583
Re: Latest research results from Newcastle on Type 2 diabetes - positive
« Reply #22 on: March 03, 2018, 12:51:53 pm »
I thought treatment was tailored to individual patients whatever the name/classification.

IMO (&IANADiabetologist) diabetes is a very broad spectrum of trouble managing sugar and insulin. It might be helpful to classify into five subcategories but there are more than five colours in a picture...

Absolutely, plenty of T2s treated with insulin as well as metformin
“Procrastination is the thief of time, collar him.” –Charles Dickens