Author Topic: Schwalbe marathon Greenguard 700 x 32  (Read 3630 times)

Blodwyn Pig

  • what a nice chap
Schwalbe marathon Greenguard 700 x 32
« on: December 29, 2017, 01:54:04 pm »
Mileage to date                               9047. Km

Visitations                                       0 Front                                     0  Rear




So I've taken the Supremes off 'Olive' for the winter, as I find them a bit slippy in all the Skoggy mess, and for winter Rough Stuff.  So I've gone for The Greenguard version, @£16 each from Ribble (£32 pair p+p free) I didn't weigh these,  as they were bought for their robustness. I've just fitted them.  They were fitted to H+Son TB14 rims, with 17mm internal width, and I managed to fit them without tyre levers, just by working them in, all the way round. Thought i would have a bit of trouble, as when the second side is started the greenguard material makes for a thicker 'sandwich' and rolling them over , to tuck in the opposite bead initially, was a tad awkward.  But they're on, and pumped up. I'll do the usual mileage /visitation log.  Nowt wrong with the Supremes btw, front still has mold line on after 3500 km +, but wanted some tread for winter. 

WP_20171230_08_58_53_Pro by mark tilley, on Flickr

31.1mm wide

WP_20171230_08_59_46_Pro by mark tilley, on Flickr

30.8mm tall


WP_20171230_08_58_05_Pro by mark tilley, on Flickr

Bit more room under the mudguards, I'll prob remove the reflective tape.

Kim

  • Timelord
Re: Schwalbe marathon Greenguard 700 x 32
« Reply #1 on: December 29, 2017, 02:14:43 pm »
Health warning:  The newer HS420 'greenguard' incarnation of the Marathon is anecdotally underwhelming in its grip on trace levels of skog/chutney.  I damaged my bike in an off that I wouldn't have expected to happen on the previous HS368s, and someone else reported similar (can't find the thread now).

They seem fine for actual Sustrans-style rough stuff.
To ride the Windcheetah, first, you must embrace the cantilever...

Blodwyn Pig

  • what a nice chap
Re: Schwalbe marathon Greenguard 700 x 32
« Reply #2 on: December 29, 2017, 05:18:30 pm »
Health warning:  The newer HS420 'greenguard' incarnation of the Marathon is anecdotally underwhelming in its grip on trace levels of skog/chutney.  I damaged my bike in an off that I wouldn't have expected to happen on the previous HS368s, and someone else reported similar (can't find the thread now).

They seem fine for actual Sustrans-style rough stuff.

Was this when new, or after a bit of wear, coz they doo look shiny and.......silicony  at the moment, could be the mould oil stuff.

Kim

  • Timelord
Re: Schwalbe marathon Greenguard 700 x 32
« Reply #3 on: December 29, 2017, 05:26:11 pm »
After a couple of thousand miles of wear.  I fitted them to the bike in May 2016 or so, did a summer of touring on it, injured my Achilles, missed the 2016 chutney season, used a different bike through the winter as I recovered, used it for various touringy things (including some comedy off-roading) this spring/summer without issue, and promptly fell off it the first time I braked hard on a not-visibly-slimy autumn road.  Ironically, that was the week I retired the fast bike because the skog had reached the point where I didn't think that slick tyres were a good idea.

For reference this is the 40-406 and 40-559 variant (bike has different sized wheels), but I expect the compound is the same.

Not had any punctures[1] on them so far, so there's that.  And there's always the possibility that it might just be bad luck.


[1] Valve failure doesn't count.
To ride the Windcheetah, first, you must embrace the cantilever...

Re: Schwalbe marathon Greenguard 700 x 32
« Reply #4 on: December 29, 2017, 07:31:59 pm »
I wonder if the rigidity of the anti-puncture layer means that the tyres don't conform/deform to the irregularities of the road, and hence don't get a good 'grip' on the bitumen?

That might also account for the relatively low rolling resistance.
<i>Marmite slave</i>

Kim

  • Timelord
Re: Schwalbe marathon Greenguard 700 x 32
« Reply #5 on: December 29, 2017, 07:46:58 pm »
I wonder if the rigidity of the anti-puncture layer means that the tyres don't conform/deform to the irregularities of the road, and hence don't get a good 'grip' on the bitumen?

Simplistically, friction is independent of contact area, but this must surely be a case where it's A Bit More Complicated Than That, so I wouldn't be surprised if it went either way  :-\

I'd guess that the siping pattern is able to do its thing in line with earlier incarnations, hence it still works well enough with off-road mud and gravel, but something about the new compound has compromised the grip on slimy solid surfaces.  If it's a deformation thing, it might just be that it needs a slightly lower pressure...


Quote
That might also account for the relatively low rolling resistance.

This does seem likely.  The figures on https://www.bicyclerollingresistance.com/ are impressive.
To ride the Windcheetah, first, you must embrace the cantilever...

LittleWheelsandBig

  • Whimsy Rider
Re: Schwalbe marathon Greenguard 700 x 32
« Reply #6 on: December 29, 2017, 08:01:45 pm »
Harder rubber typically lowers rolling resistance and reduces wear rate but reduces grip, particularly wet weather grip.
Wheel meet again, don't know where, don't know when...

Blodwyn Pig

  • what a nice chap
Re: Schwalbe marathon Greenguard 700 x 32
« Reply #7 on: December 30, 2017, 01:18:06 pm »
First ride , seem good, grip better than the Supremes I reckon, slightly less comfy, but then I am running them at 75 / 80 psi, as opposed to 60/65, and I'll  prob let them go down a bit on their own, as they do. Don't seem any slower than the 35mm Supremes, and looking down whilst riding, its quite nice seeing a tread. Reminds me of the old Michelin World Tours , when I were a  lad.  A very wet ride, in floods and Skog, BUT, and this is a big BUT............my bike came back much cleaner than with the Supremes, the front tyre, being narrower, and treaded, doesn't squash the water and muck out of the way, thus throwing it every where, well impressed. Also the steering seems a tad more.......twitchy. (faster)

Blodwyn Pig

  • what a nice chap
Re: Schwalbe marathon Greenguard 700 x 32
« Reply #8 on: February 10, 2018, 02:39:54 pm »
Last weekend I was away at Beverley YHA,  for a Ruff Stuff  winter weekend, with the Local CTC DA. I know MTBs are a good thing, but honestly, in the gloopy muddy stuff, those on Trad tourer bikes (75%) fared much better than those with the MTB's.  The marathons coped very well, and off road, riding thro the puddles was the better option, as the wet aided the self cleaning of the tyres.

menthel

  • Jim is my real, actual name
Re: Schwalbe marathon Greenguard 700 x 32
« Reply #9 on: February 12, 2018, 02:16:03 pm »
I had a recent inaugural experience of using an MTB in skog like that and, yes, my friend on a hybrid with slicker tyres was in a much better place than I was. I just couldn't shed the mud and ended up doing wheelspinning thigh workouts before having to dismount and walk.

Blodwyn Pig

  • what a nice chap
Re: Schwalbe marathon Greenguard 700 x 32
« Reply #10 on: December 08, 2018, 01:54:43 pm »
IMG_0398 by mark tilley, on Flickr


FRONT  After 4,000km



IMG_0399 by mark tilley, on Flickr


REAR After 4,000km


Kim

  • Timelord
Re: Schwalbe marathon Greenguard 700 x 32
« Reply #11 on: December 08, 2018, 02:20:41 pm »
I don't have a record of the exact mileage when I changed them, but both of my 40mm ones are in a condition somewhere between your two (moulding marks have gone, occasional nicks in evidence, no obvious loss of tread) after at least 7000km.  Note that the front wheel is a smaller diameter than the rear and the weight is distributed more evenly than DF bike, so overall it tends to be the front tyre that wears slightly faster.

Zero punctures, and since I've been taking it easy around chutney I haven't had any more unplanned dismounts, in spite of unseasonably warm weather meaning I've been persisting with the recumbent[1] into December.


[1] I tend to switch to almost exclusively riding my aluminium-framed DF bike with nickel-plated chain when the gritters come out.
To ride the Windcheetah, first, you must embrace the cantilever...

Blodwyn Pig

  • what a nice chap
Re: Schwalbe marathon Greenguard 700 x 32
« Reply #12 on: March 04, 2019, 05:23:13 pm »
IMG_0630 by mark tilley, on Flickr

Front after 6000km


IMG_0631 by mark tilley, on Flickr


Rear after 6000km


I have just swapped them over now, (front to back) so should get at least 10,000km , maybe 12k out of these.

Re: Schwalbe marathon Greenguard 700 x 32
« Reply #13 on: March 07, 2019, 11:29:52 am »
Are these any less sluggish than the M+? Love the p*ncture resistance, hate riding through treacle.

Kim

  • Timelord
Re: Schwalbe marathon Greenguard 700 x 32
« Reply #14 on: March 07, 2019, 12:03:10 pm »
Are these any less sluggish than the M+? Love the p*ncture resistance, hate riding through treacle.

Yes.  Bicyclerollingresistance test shows a few watts difference, more at lower pressures.  In the real world I reckon there's more to be gained due to the Greenguard giving a less harsh ride on bad surfaces.  It's also a bit lighter.

I reckon it's a better choice if you don't mind a puncture every several thousand miles.  It's easier to fit than the plus, so that's less of a drama anyway.

Plus is best for when you can't have punctures, either because you can't / don't want to fix them, or because you can't afford to be late.
To ride the Windcheetah, first, you must embrace the cantilever...

Re: Schwalbe marathon Greenguard 700 x 32
« Reply #15 on: March 07, 2019, 12:52:09 pm »
I have just swapped them over now, (front to back) so should get at least 10,000km , maybe 12k out of these.
I've always thought that a dodgy way to get the most life out of tyres, better IMO to keep the better one on the front and when the rear is worn right down put a new on on the front and move that to the back. 

Kim

  • Timelord
Re: Schwalbe marathon Greenguard 700 x 32
« Reply #16 on: March 07, 2019, 12:56:22 pm »
I have just swapped them over now, (front to back) so should get at least 10,000km , maybe 12k out of these.
I've always thought that a dodgy way to get the most life out of tyres, better IMO to keep the better one on the front and when the rear is worn right down put a new on on the front and move that to the back.

Agreed, with the exception of trying to squeeze a bit more life out of your tyres mid-tour.

In practice, I've found that worn road/touring tyres tend to become excessively puncture-prone long before grip becomes a problem, so it doesn't matter that much.
To ride the Windcheetah, first, you must embrace the cantilever...

Blodwyn Pig

  • what a nice chap
Re: Schwalbe marathon Greenguard 700 x 32
« Reply #17 on: March 07, 2019, 05:26:37 pm »
my reasoning, is that the rear obviously wears quicker, and now i've swapped, there is less likelyhood of spinning on skoggy uphills. yes the front has less, but it still has probably 50 x the tread of say, a gatorskin,  so no worries there.

Kim

  • Timelord
Re: Schwalbe marathon Greenguard 700 x 32
« Reply #18 on: March 07, 2019, 06:04:45 pm »
I think I'd rather have the rear wheel spin on skog than the front wheel slide sideways on it.  I have different tyres front and back on my mountain bike on that basis (more grip at the front, better rolling at the back).
To ride the Windcheetah, first, you must embrace the cantilever...

Re: Schwalbe marathon Greenguard 700 x 32
« Reply #19 on: March 07, 2019, 06:18:22 pm »
I used to swap tyres over in order to even out wear as described.  I think it's probably fine provided you change tyres cautiously before they're too worn. 

I now put new tyre on the front, move the old one to the back, and run that back tyre until it's mostly knackered.  This is arguably not safer.

Blodwyn Pig

  • what a nice chap
Re: Schwalbe marathon Greenguard 700 x 32
« Reply #20 on: June 11, 2019, 09:42:51 pm »
IMG_0783 by mark tilley, on Flickr

Front ( was rear) @ 8000km

IMG_0782 by mark tilley, on Flickr

Rear ( was front)  @ 8000km

Re: Schwalbe marathon Greenguard 700 x 32
« Reply #21 on: June 11, 2019, 09:55:12 pm »
I know it’s hard to tell from here, but the rate of wear seems to have increased. Would you agree?

I like the way the chair in the second photo creates a peacock effect.
L'enfer, c'est les autos.

Blodwyn Pig

  • what a nice chap
Re: Schwalbe marathon Greenguard 700 x 32
« Reply #22 on: June 12, 2019, 07:36:40 am »
I know it’s hard to tell from here, but the rate of wear seems to have increased. Would you agree?



Not sure, maybe I'll wet the tyres and take another couple of snaps, close up, showing the profile more. I assume the compound is the same throughout, so shouldn't increase, but I did notice I was running them soft, prob 40-45psi. I just forget to pump them up , anyways back to 65-70 and it flies along.

Re: Schwalbe marathon Greenguard 700 x 32
« Reply #23 on: June 12, 2019, 05:27:25 pm »
A pressure of 75-90 psi seems to be the sweet spot for rolling according to Rolling Resistance reviews.   Running them at the lower end you are giving up less than 1.5 watts across both tyres ( which is noise ) to the top end, and on rougher roads probably faster anyway.

Interestingly when they covered different sizes the 32mm Greenguard seems to be the slowest.

https://www.bicyclerollingresistance.com/specials/schwalbe-marathon-32-37-40-47

BrianI

  • Is it a bird? Is it a plane? No, it's Lepidopterist Man!
Re: Schwalbe marathon Greenguard 700 x 32
« Reply #24 on: June 12, 2019, 08:40:49 pm »
IMG_0783 by mark tilley, on Flickr

Front ( was rear) @ 8000km

IMG_0782 by mark tilley, on Flickr

Rear ( was front)  @ 8000km

So what made you change to Marathon greenguard, from your Marathon Supreme?

I've currently got marathon supreme on my tourer/commuter (as a replacement for 32mm marathon greenguard which I found rather harsh).