300km event for a mere £159

[whosatthewheel]

We may have met.

Did we?

[Peter]

We may have met.

Did we?

Ah, possibly not!  I thought you might have meant last year's National 400!

[whosatthewheel]

We may have met.

Did we?

Ah, possibly not!  I thought you might have meant last year's National 400!

That's the one... just passed the Elan Valley Reservoirs and about to turn left towards Aberystwyth

[Veloman]

I can understand why whosatthewheel would like more TLC events as the photos from the 400 show someone who travels very light and I would suggest the cycle and kit used on that ride was the exception and not the norm.  More sportive than audax. Whether AUK wishes to cater for folk to move from sportives to audax is another question. I have a feeling that events provided are meeting the need and our 'showcase' events do not always fulfil the needs of existing members due to over subscriptions. Regards the original posting of a National Series, I believe an award could be generated without the need for one off TLC qualifying events and a series of qualifying events could be nominated subject to certain criteria.  After all, ensuring a member would be able to get a place on all 4 nominated TLC events would be an achievement in itself, let alone finishing them all!

[whosatthewheel]

not that light... this was the content of my saddlebag

[Si S]

I think this thread shows that Audax is a very broad church and long may that continue. Personally I prefer x rated events with small fields, I have my reasons for this.

If I found myself on for a sub 9 hour 200, I'd probably be looking for a nice beer garden 

[citoyen]

Are those closed roads events? There's no doubt a huge appetite for that in and of itself. A world away from any sort of audax though.

Neither the Majorca 312 nor the Milan-Sanremo GF are on closed roads IIRC, but many similar events are, eg Etape du Tour, Quebrantahuesos. And they are always signposted, and don't involve stopping to get your card stamped - it's all chip timing, which you'd never get on an audax (except big events like LEL) because the costs would be prohibitive if you only have 100 riders.

The Milan-Sanremo GF is ridden pretty much as a race from what I understand. Most UK audaxers riding it at the same pace as they'd ride a typical UK 300 will find the organisers have packed up and gone home by the time they get to the finish. In fact, I think there's a de facto 13hr time limit if you want to avail yourself of the catering at the finish. I know someone who did it inside 10 hours, so the finish control wouldn't even have been open yet if it had been an audax, and there were plenty of other riders ahead of him.

I imagine the one-day version of the London Revolution will attract the same kind of riders as those events.

When I did the RAB, a lot of the places taken up by corporate entries - eg Balfour Beatty had a large contingent there, and they had offered places to staff in a ballot. Staff didn't have to pay for their place but were expected to raise a certain amount of money for the firm's nominated charity.

[Veloman]

If that is an Altura then I had the same (or I might have had the Ortileb which is only slightly larger) and I might have used the same top tube bag or my Alpkit one. Either way, there were far more saddlebags and full mudguards on show as I recall, along with dynamo hubs and lights making the cycle more audax than sportive. (I used my SON deluxe wheel and Edelux II)
Having done Paris-Roubaix event I saw totally different approach in terms of cycles and equipment: the thought of self sufficiency is not in the mindset of sportive riders but it is the basis of audax. Having facilitated Birmingham Velo pass smoothly through my village, the pattern was repeated.  Hence my comment above in terms of what AUK might be wishing to achieve and who they should target.
Again:

Regards the original posting of a National Series, I believe an award could be generated without the need for one off TLC qualifying events and a series of qualifying events could be nominated subject to certain criteria.  After all, ensuring a member would be able to get a place on all 4 nominated TLC events would be an achievement in itself, let alone finishing them all!

All in favour of a National Series but not predicated on having to ride specific events and see it as an award more akin to the ISR award rather than the National 400 model extended to cover the other requisite distances. Work required to consider what would qualify in terms of events as the machinations of the Welsh SR has shown with some events in and some events out.

[Greenbank]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/V%C3%A4tternrundan is the classic example of how big a single (long) event can be.

18,000+ finishers of the 300km route (and ~80% of them Swedish so it's not just a huge influx of tourists).

One of the things I like about Audax is that I can choose how to ride it. Some I ride with minimal stops and minimal human contact in order to get round quickly, and some I'll ride in a far more social manner.

The more I've done the less I seem to care about the TLC available, but I'm very grateful for the TLC when I was starting out as it certainly made the difference on a couple of rides.

[EDIT] Also, what I carry has changed drastically over the years mostly due to my changing attitude to risk and reward. When I first started riding Audaxes I wanted to complete the ride at all costs, so I carried spares for ridiculous things that could have gone wrong, I didn't want to DNF due to mechanical. Now I'm not bothered (to the point of not being worried too much about validation[1]), if something goes wrong that I can't fix with a standard toolkit (assistance from others on the road) and/or some ingenuity then I'll accept it and make my way home somehow. I may now look like a "sportive rider" because I'll use a small seatpack on a 400km ride but this doesn't mean I'm any less self-sufficient - preventative maintenance and experience has allowed me to stop carrying as much stuff.

I personally think the biggest barrier to greater adoption of Audax is the concept of routesheets and Brevet cards. Sure there are GPX files available for many events, but you won't see a big uptake in Audax until there's some form of electronic validation (be it from chip timing or GPX submission or Strava account linking). Being able to satisfy the traditionalists (who want to keep their Brevet cards) and the modern generations is the key.

1. I chose to DNF one ride about 2km from the finish because finishing it would have meant missing the hourly train back home. I gave the cards to a rider going past and asked them to let the organiser know - my card was returned to me validated. (The ride was slightly overdistance and I had ridden 75km to get to the start.)

[Peter]

@ whosatthewheel

I did indeed help John Perrin at the Van of Delights before that section.  But I arrived a little late, so I imagine you were through before I was able to offer unwanted TLC!  That's a great picture.

Peter

[Martin]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/V%C3%A4tternrundan is the classic example of how big a single (long) event can be.

18,000+ finishers of the 300km route (and ~80% of them Swedish so it's not just a huge influx of tourists).

yes done it twice and dare I say it far more enjoyable than any UK Audax 300s I've done just because it's so different and exhilarating. As probably is the Mallorca one and the one in the OP;

but they are all commercial events with a huge level of support and publicity;

far more than AUK can ever aspire to as are the number of participants (even if it wanted to) so I'm still struggling to see the connection with a National 300.

[Veloman]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/V%C3%A4tternrundan is the classic example of how big a single (long) event can be.

18,000+ finishers of the 300km route (and ~80% of them Swedish so it's not just a huge influx of tourists).

Closed or open roads?

[Martin]

open, but in a very rural area of Sweden and the very few motorists on the route are very considerate

plus it's a 24hr event IIRC with many riders starting before midnight and most riders on the road by 0230 just before the sun starts to rise; IIRC you all have until 0000 Sunday to complete. There is a sub 9 elite group who start about 0900

also it's less than £159; about £100 but a bit more when you add flights or ferries / accommodation etc. But worth every penny if you've never cycled in Sweden or indeed in a 200+ peleton

[Veloman]

So not quite audax and not quite sportive. A one off event in terms of how it takes place?

[Martin]

So not quite audax and not quite sportive. A one off event in terms of how it takes place?

not that different to any of the French sportives I've ridden apart from the route, and allowed as a DIY as it's unsupported

[Veloman]

I was thinking about time constraints and flexibility of start etc.

[Greenbank]

I mentioned it more about the pool of possible entrants.

~80% of the finishers of the 300km ride were Swedish so that's ~14000. UK has a population 6 times that of Sweden. We're not short of people that could aim to do a 300km ride.

[grams]

Vätternrundan is like an odd cross between Dunwich Dynamo and the Surrey 100. The Surrey 100 has 25,000 riders and is wildly oversubscribed. The Dunwich Dynamo (which is a bit longer and considerably more audaxy in format) has around a thousand (give or take). I think the distance is a red herring - the format of the event is just as important.

[Veloman]

I have no doubt there is the appetite for a 300km ride and the original link to this thread provides that option, albeit at a cost that audax type folk may find unacceptable.  Events like Ride London and London-Brighton etc show the market is there for folk to get on a bike and ride, particularly as they can use the event to raise money. However, the events are not audax and does AUK wish to get involved in such events? My belief is no. (X-post with grahamparks)

The OP was concerned with a National Series (NS) and the debate has diverted from that. My belief is that a NS award is eminently possible and it just needs folk to decide the criteria for such an award.  Having specific events to qualify and having those events as TLC is possibly making life too difficult and restricting the number of folk who could achieve the award.

[Exit Stage Left]

However, the events are not audax and does AUK wish to get involved in such events? My belief is no. (X-post with grahamparks)

Having interviewed people, and read ride reports of LEL, it's clear that riders arrange their own add-ons to bring up the comfort level. Accommodation is the main one. Windsor-Chester-Windsor in 2015 was one event with TLC, and cost more than others.

I'm not sure that low prices, and spartan conditions form part of AUK's remit. Of more interest is support outside controls. Meeting up with supporters at B&B or hotel is debatable as a rule infringement.

There's been talk about not caring about cheating elsewhere. It matters in PBP qualification. The extent to which a TLC event, or one with accommodation arranged, is a 'soft option', is ultimately tested when plans start to unravel on PBP.

It would be possible to provide a 'PBP qualification package', providing add-on help around calendar events. Baxters do that to a certain extent on PBP itself. There's a debate to be had about the aesthetics, I suppose.

[dave d]

As this thread prompted 5 pages of discussion, I thought the views of a couple of regular Audaxers who rode Saturday’s London Revolution 300km Ultra might be of interest (with apologies to those who thought this thread should be removed as it didn’t directly concern an Audax).

Some corrections to points made in earlier posts:  The £159 quoted in the original post was the price including camping.  To enter just the ride was around £100 if you entered early enough.  The 7:30pm cut-off time was for the 2-day event.  For this it was 9:00pm (so 15 hours, the mid-point of the 10-20 hours limits for a 300k Audax).  Lastly this was actually the 2nd time this event had been run (although the 2017 edition was a not widely publicised test run with just 33 riders).

So why did we enter?  We wanted to do a preparation ride before the 600km Wander Wye next month (our intended PBP pre-qualifier).  The distance and date of this fitted the bill and we had previously enjoyed the 2-day version.  The start at Windsor was only a short ride from home, much more convenient than the east London start of the 2-day version.  The 15 hour time limit did seem a bit stretching, but having completed the Vätternrundan 300km in not much over 12 hours last year we were confident we could do it even allowing for the hills and London traffic.

The start through very familiar roads to the Chilterns was relatively straightforward as we found ourselves in a large quick pack.  Unfortunately a delay due to a puncture after only 24km meant for the rest of the day we had little benefit of group riding.  Indeed we could tell we were just behind ‘le bulge’ (as they say at PBP) as we entered controls to find the bike racks full and left with them mostly empty.

The route to the north of London was fine and managed to mostly avoid built up areas.  We couldn’t fault the organisers for the signage as there were arrows approaching, at and leaving every junction so there was no danger of going wrong (though personally I still prefer the mental stimulation of following a route sheet).  The food stops had a fairly wide range of snacks (one had pizza/pasta and another had sandwiches), but eating these quickly standing in a field was distinctly second best to the more relaxed audax experience of sitting down in a cafe.  Indeed we were conscious throughout of needing to push on at more than our usual audax pace.  We didn’t see any of the promised chaperones, but were frequently passed by the organisers’ cars and a motor bike which would have provided reassurance to anyone concerned about needing assistance.

By far the biggest drag was the slog through central London with 2 hours of very heavy traffic and numerous traffic lights to negotiate south from Enfield across Tower Bridge to Crystal Palace.  It reminded us both why we moved out of London!  By now the rain had started to fall and the southern leg was particularly miserable with the persistent downpour and a flattish route making it difficult to get warm.  We were using our stiffer carbon bikes rather than our usual Audax bikes with Brooks saddles and mudguards and so we could feel every bump in the poor road surfaces.  A coffee (£3.50 for a small cup - not included in the entry price), a couple of hills to warm up on and being nearly home made the last leg more bearable.  A slow puncture just 5 miles before the end that just survived with a bit of extra air pumped in meant we limped in with 13 minutes to spare before the 9:00pm limit where we were greeted by cheering volunteers ringing cowbells as we passed under the finishing arch.  There was also a photographer to record our finish.  In fact photos taken on the ride could be automatically uploaded to your Facebook account as you rode round if you wanted that sort of thing (we did).

The results show that we were the 129th/130th of the 162 finishers (there were also 20 DNF’s).  The fastest rider completed it in 10h 37m (having not stopped at many of the five food stops like many of those at the front of the field).  The last time recorded was 16h 10m so it looks as if the 15 hour cut-off was not strictly applied.

Am I glad I did it?  Yes - it ticked all the boxes I wanted and I was pleased to complete the ride, particularly given the conditions.  Would I do it again? – unlikely (even if good weather was guaranteed) as there are many more audaxes around that I would prefer to do.  I would particularly love to try Manotea’s London Orbital now (and I would probably enjoy it more), although a clash of dates means it probably won’t be in 2018, 

[grams]

The 7:30pm cut-off time was for the 2-day event.  For this it was 9:00pm (so 15 hours, the mid-point of the 10-20 hours limits for a 300k Audax).

[...]

The last time recorded was 16h 10m so it looks as if the 15 hour cut-off was not strictly applied.

That's not what they advertised.

"The route for the Ultra will be open until 7.30pm. Therefore, you need to be able to cycle around 15mph as a minimum."

Given start times were 6-7 am, that gives a time limit of 12h30-13h30. And 185 miles/15 mph = 12h20.

If the advertised time limit had been 15 or 16 hours I might have given it more consideration rather than immediately closing the browser tab!

[Peat]

Perhaps they wanted to dissuade people who thought they may just about get around in 16hrs. As a sportive, there is an expectation to be rescued should you have problems/can't get round. Over that distance, its a long way to send a vehicle to pick someone up.

[Redlight]

As a sportive, there is an expectation to be rescued should you have problems/can't get round. Over that distance, its a long way to send a vehicle to pick someone up.

Given the route was all around London, surely anyone who had a problem could easily have walked to the nearest railway station.

[Wycombewheeler]

Perhaps they wanted to dissuade people who thought they may just about get around in 16hrs. As a sportive, there is an expectation to be rescued should you have problems/can't get round. Over that distance, its a long way to send a vehicle to pick someone up.

I thought part of the high cost was a broom wagon. If it passes you you can get taken back or be on your own