Author Topic: Average speed cameras - the way forward?  (Read 5529 times)

Average speed cameras - the way forward?
« on: January 23, 2018, 09:55:33 am »
Analysis of the first few months of their operation on a 51 mile stretch of the A90 in Scotland suggests they virtually eliminate speeding (down to less than 1% from a previous 20%).

https://www.thecourier.co.uk/fp/news/local/angus-mearns/584845/a90-average-cameras-between-dundee-and-stonehaven-bring-startling-reversal-in-speeding-drivers/

I've thought for years this is the only way to stop speeding and these figures would seem to bear this out, so why is it so sparingly used? 

Presumably it's only a matter of time before all vehicles are fitted with tracking devices (whether for safety or insurance purposes) that could also make speeding punitive, and driverless vehicles will obviously stick the limits, so are we on the cusp of an end to speeding?

Jaded

  • The Codfather
  • Formerly known as Jaded
Re: Average speed cameras - the way forward?
« Reply #1 on: January 23, 2018, 10:00:24 am »
The A9 is way, way better since they put in Average cameras. The quality of driving has improved dramatically and the number of crashes is significantly reduced.
If you don't like your democracy, vote against it.

Redlight

  • Enjoying life in the slow lane
Re: Average speed cameras - the way forward?
« Reply #2 on: January 23, 2018, 10:02:10 am »
I have no hard evidence but on the one stretch of road that I know well and on which the bright yellow boxes have been replaced by average speed cameras there has (in my experience) definitely been a massive reduction in speeding (it is a 50mph dual carriageway on which it was hard to do 70 without being tailgated by someone who wanted to go faster). 

It's also deterred the idiots who would race up towards the cameras, brake hard for a couple of hundred yards and then accelerate again.

On the other point, I'm not sure we will see all vehicles fitted with tracking devices in the foreseeable future. In any case, without enforcement, they will be as effective as speed limit signs and, I imagine, disabled by the more determined.
Between the Disney abattoir and the chemical refinery

Re: Average speed cameras - the way forward?
« Reply #3 on: January 23, 2018, 10:21:13 am »
..

On the other point, I'm not sure we will see all vehicles fitted with tracking devices in the foreseeable future. In any case, without enforcement, they will be as effective as speed limit signs and, I imagine, disabled by the more determined.

If they are involved in an 'incident' the fact that a vehicle modification has taken place will give their insurer a neat get-out from making a pay-out.

They will then have a black mark against them on the insurance database.

Obviously this will then be an incentive to drive uninsured, a practice that could also be made more difficult as tech advances. 

The day will come when driving really is the privilege it is in theory.

1st offence, your car is crushed
2nd offence you are in it.  :demon:
Sic transit and all that..

Re: Average speed cameras - the way forward?
« Reply #4 on: January 23, 2018, 10:43:03 am »
You just want to fleece the poor misunderstood motorist, don't you? dincha know that speeding when nobody is looking is an inalienable RIGHT??

More seriously, over this side of town a lot of the North Circular has gone average speed, along with the A13 with similar beneficial results.

Re: Average speed cameras - the way forward?
« Reply #5 on: January 23, 2018, 11:04:08 am »
I have no hard evidence but on the one stretch of road that I know well and on which the bright yellow boxes have been replaced by average speed cameras there has (in my experience) definitely been a massive reduction in speeding...

The A77 Average Speed Camera system covers some 32 miles from Bogend Toll near Symington to Ardwell Bay, south of Girvan. The reduction in accidents and fatalities delivered by Average Speed Camera systems speak for themselves. With the A77 scheme now running for over 10 years there is a considerable amount of data available and the latest figures covering the last three years to July 2015 indicate that there has been a 77% reduction in fatal casualties and a 74% reduction in serious casualties compared with the original baseline published in 2005.

from here

Re: Average speed cameras - the way forward?
« Reply #6 on: January 23, 2018, 11:41:38 am »
Having watched the M3 system being put in place (albeit with carriageway upgrades), it appears to be a significant undertaking, with huge new gantries at regular intervals.  But yes, it does work.

Re: Average speed cameras - the way forward?
« Reply #7 on: January 23, 2018, 12:37:12 pm »
Having watched the M3 system being put in place (albeit with carriageway upgrades), it appears to be a significant undertaking, with huge new gantries at regular intervals.  But yes, it does work.

Presumably a lot less infrastructure is required for single/dual carriageways.  The A104 Epping Road (the direct cycle route north-east out of London) would appear to be an eminent candidate.  Long fairly straight road with few side turnings and the majority of motorists speeding.

Kim

  • 2nd in the world
Re: Average speed cameras - the way forward?
« Reply #8 on: January 23, 2018, 01:36:24 pm »
I remember when they appeared on the A610 in Nottingham.  Suddenly everyone was keeping to 30mph and leaving a decent gap.  It was lovely.
To ride the Windcheetah, first, you must embrace the cantilever...

Re: Average speed cameras - the way forward?
« Reply #9 on: January 23, 2018, 01:37:09 pm »
Average speed cameras would seem to be a 'no-brainer' for roads with a high incidence of collisions.  I can think of a number of roads in Oxfordshire that would benefit.
"an inordinate fondness for beetles"

Re: Average speed cameras - the way forward?
« Reply #10 on: January 23, 2018, 03:49:47 pm »
It's also deterred the idiots who would race up towards the cameras, brake hard for a couple of hundred yards and then accelerate again.

Though not all of them.  It appears that some drivers think that average speed cameras work by taking an average of the speeds that you pass each one at.   :D

Re: Average speed cameras - the way forward?
« Reply #11 on: January 23, 2018, 04:01:14 pm »
When instaaled on the A14 a number of years ago, they made a significant improvement.

Re: Average speed cameras - the way forward?
« Reply #12 on: January 23, 2018, 05:42:55 pm »
When instaaled on the A14 a number of years ago, they made a significant improvement.

Though you still get the odd pillock shooting down the outside lane at 90+; I'm never sure whether they're people who don't understand the concept of averages, or whether they've just got cloned plates or what have you.

Re: Average speed cameras - the way forward?
« Reply #13 on: January 23, 2018, 06:51:35 pm »
A couple of years ago I was regularly driving some Somerset to Hull and back. This was when the 'smart motorway' around Nottingham was being constructed. For most of my journeys there were three major sets of road works. Two, on the M5 and the aforementioned Nottingham area, had average speed cameras. The third, on the M18, didn't. Where there was an average speed camera you could set the cruise control to 50 and sit there, moving along with all the traffic. On the M18 it was as if there was no restriction at all.
People will respond if they feel there is a reasonable chance of being caught. Otherwise...
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SoreTween

  • Most of me survived the Pennine Bridleway.
Re: Average speed cameras - the way forward?
« Reply #14 on: January 23, 2018, 07:51:31 pm »
Having watched the M3 system being put in place (albeit with carriageway upgrades), it appears to be a significant undertaking, with huge new gantries at regular intervals.  But yes, it does work.

Presumably a lot less infrastructure is required for single/dual carriageways. 

The huge gantries are primarily there for the smart motorway / variable limit signs.  Average speed cameras were there throughout the roadworks and could cover all three reduced width lanes from poles at the left side of the road.  The permanent speed cameras are now on the gantries but that doesn't say anything about their type. 
Those on the M25 and M42 variable speed sections are not average.  The permanent ones on the M3 could be average but I don't drive it daily any more and have only been on it a few times since the works ended so I haven't had the chance to look.
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There is only one infinite resource in this universe; human stupidity.

Pingu

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Re: Average speed cameras - the way forward?
« Reply #15 on: January 23, 2018, 10:36:04 pm »
The A90 and A9 are so much better for driving on now  :thumbsup:

Re: Average speed cameras - the way forward?
« Reply #16 on: January 23, 2018, 11:43:47 pm »
So, here they tackled  speeding and tailgating by making it illegal to drive (at the speed limit) in the outer lane if someone faster comes up behind you.
Claimed it caused dangerous driving because people couldn't speed and and would make risky maneuvers.

Previous provincial gov't removed speedcameras  and every body speeds here. Including the police. Been here almost 10 years now and have seen speed controls 3 times...2 of them on the same day.

Re: Average speed cameras - the way forward?
« Reply #17 on: January 30, 2018, 06:40:23 am »
Now I have a work van with cruise control I'm not fussed by them. Unfortunately they don't seem to work for really slowing people down and apparently don't apply to hgv's as when I drop into inside lane and set it for 50kph if that's the speed limit I end up getting overtaken or tailgated by the lorry's.

ElyDave

  • Royal and Ancient Polar Bear Society member 263583
Re: Average speed cameras - the way forward?
« Reply #18 on: January 30, 2018, 07:26:06 am »
When instaaled on the A14 a number of years ago, they made a significant improvement.

+1 to that, now they need to put it along more of it, it's really made a difference around Cambridge/Huntingdon
“Procrastination is the thief of time, collar him.” –Charles Dickens

Jaded

  • The Codfather
  • Formerly known as Jaded
Re: Average speed cameras - the way forward?
« Reply #19 on: January 30, 2018, 08:37:08 am »
Now I have a work van with cruise control I'm not fussed by them. Unfortunately they don't seem to work for really slowing people down and apparently don't apply to hgv's as when I drop into inside lane and set it for 50kph if that's the speed limit I end up getting overtaken or tailgated by the lorry's.

Check your actual speed with a GPS. If I set my cruise at 52mph I don’t get tailgated and the car is going at 50
If you don't like your democracy, vote against it.

Re: Average speed cameras - the way forward?
« Reply #20 on: January 30, 2018, 08:51:32 am »
Wonder what Paul Smith would've made of it all?
Sic transit and all that..

Re: Average speed cameras - the way forward?
« Reply #21 on: February 02, 2018, 11:27:56 pm »
The A14 between Huntingdon and Cambridge was another classic case where accident numbers were slashed by the use of these cameras

I do love the warning systems though ......traffic calming made easy.

A lot tend to rely on public input, so if you want to traffic calm then simply post a speed camera and the speed merchants either avoid or slow down because their StNav etc told them it was there


Jaded

  • The Codfather
  • Formerly known as Jaded
Re: Average speed cameras - the way forward?
« Reply #22 on: February 02, 2018, 11:36:57 pm »
Wonder what Paul Smith would've made of it all?

on his legacy site they say stuff like "The av cams cause horrendous overtaking manoeuvres and mass frustration as all the traffic is bunched up."

Which is utter BS. That's what used to happen, it doesn't now. It really doesn't.
If you don't like your democracy, vote against it.

Re: Average speed cameras - the way forward?
« Reply #23 on: February 03, 2018, 12:19:31 pm »
Wonder what Paul Smith would've made of it all?

on his legacy site they say stuff like "The av cams cause horrendous overtaking manoeuvres and mass frustration as all the traffic is bunched up."

Which is utter BS. That's what used to happen, it doesn't now. It really doesn't.

Like most of the site's ramblings.

Had that been the case then there would have been increases, not decreases

Mind you at times his site was more rational than the Alliance of British Bad Drivers:

Quote
"We think that this gives the lie to the idea that they are used at accident black-spots - measuring someone's speed over a long distance is completely irrelevant to safety.
"It's even worse in an urban area where people are going along with their eye on the speedometer and not on the prevailing road conditions.
"The whole thing goes against arguments that people used to justify speed cameras in the past.
"The whole thing is a nonsense."


Quote
Average speed cameras will just make drivers switch off their brains and turn them into cruise control missiles

Quote
"Overall, average speed cameras are a terrible nightmare for motorists, who hate travelling on roads equipped with them,they are the ultimate embodiment of the late Auberon Waugh's great quotation that "speed cameras are fatuous instruments of oppression designed to exercise power for its own sake and impose subservience" and their use should be confined to motorway roadworks where they have a marginal benefit and do little harm."

Re: Average speed cameras - the way forward?
« Reply #24 on: February 03, 2018, 01:03:30 pm »
A6097 NE Of Nottm was the first non smart motorway roadworks average sp cam route I've driven on, last yr.  I can't see any disadvantages.
"an inordinate fondness for beetles"