Poll

Winter 200km with 3 commercial controls + ? 3 Infos ?

Wouldn't touch it with a barge pole if it has Info Controls
1 (0.6%)
Would rather route was an extra 10km to avoid having any infos
26 (16.7%)
Wouldn't want to add more than 5km to be able to avoid infos
22 (14.1%)
Keep route as short as possible, I don't mind Infos
90 (57.7%)
Would rather mandatory route enforced by Secret Controls
17 (10.9%)

Total Members Voted: 155

Author Topic: How much do people dislike Info controls ?  (Read 11777 times)

Re: How much do people dislike Info controls ?
« Reply #25 on: January 23, 2018, 06:17:48 pm »
They do look tricky for organisers!

I don't mind them at all as a rider.
Mainly, grateful to the org for using them to make a good route.
I'm also happy if the org uses the secret-control method of making a good route.

(I very much like the way some riders treat them as stopping points, so that I can go past, and know that there are some people behind me on the road!)

Re: How much do people dislike Info controls ?
« Reply #26 on: January 23, 2018, 06:20:05 pm »
I think 3 on a 200 is fine, but id prefer them not to all be in the same leg. One on each stage between real controls makes them easy to remember.
Also an extra 7km wouldn't put me off.
   Eddington  81 miles  112 kms

fuaran

  • rothair gasta
Re: How much do people dislike Info controls ?
« Reply #27 on: January 23, 2018, 06:25:06 pm »
I'd rather have an info instead of a compulsory cafe/shop control. With a cafe you can be obliged to stop and buy something, even if not hungry, or the cafe doesn't have anything you like.
At least an info is just a brief stop.

Re: How much do people dislike Info controls ?
« Reply #28 on: January 23, 2018, 06:37:18 pm »
I like infos in so far as the absence of them on the same event might entail a shittier route.

But, I don't do them. I want to get on the bike and ride. I don't want to have to remember certain distances where infos are located. I don't want to stop. So I don't. I don't really care about validation either. I know that makes me a heinous shit. I don't care about that either.

Re: How much do people dislike Info controls ?
« Reply #29 on: January 23, 2018, 06:40:07 pm »
I've lost count of the times I've polled up at arrivée not knowing the answer to *any* of the info controls - it's never been a problem.

But then I have an honest face  ;D

Is that your face then?  Honest?

mattc

  • n.b. have grown beard since photo taken
    • Didcot Audaxes
Re: How much do people dislike Info controls ?
« Reply #30 on: January 23, 2018, 06:47:53 pm »
7km vs 3 Infos?

Is that really the question?? I'd far rather ride the extra 7km.  :thumbsup:

 (Can't be arsed to do the math, but I'd bet one of the pairs of £8 mudguards just arrived in the post that I'd mostly take less time on the longer route.)

I'm very ambivalent about Infos generally; few of the previous posts surprise me much (did Flatus say he's a Heinous Shit? ). But in this example the extra few km sound like a no-brainer.


Has never ridden RAAM
---------
No.11  Because of the great host of those who dislike the least appearance of "swank " when they travel the roads and lanes. - From Kuklos' 39 Articles

Re: How much do people dislike Info controls ?
« Reply #31 on: January 23, 2018, 07:15:39 pm »
I don't mind infos. I appreciate it though when the organiser suggests stopping places, if the control won't be a cafe. Then I can plan my ride, assuming I don't know the area.

Re: How much do people dislike Info controls ?
« Reply #32 on: January 23, 2018, 07:21:21 pm »
I've lost count of the times I've polled up at arrivée not knowing the answer to *any* of the info controls - it's never been a problem.

But then I have an honest face  ;D

Is that your face then?  Honest?

Oh, that one's the honest face which I keep in case of emergencies.
You're only as successful as your last 1200...

LEE

  • "Shut Up Jens" - Legs.
Re: How much do people dislike Info controls ?
« Reply #33 on: January 23, 2018, 07:22:23 pm »
My own position is that Infos are a waste of everyone's time.

Just tell me the route and I'll cycle it.

If anyone wants to attract women by boasting that they completed Audaxes that they, in reality, didn't...then let them. 

I'd rather the route went by as many pubs and cafes as possible, info control or not.

I really don't care about cheating in Audax*

*And that's what Controls are attempting to stamp out, correct?
Some people say I'm self-obsessed but that's enough about them.

Re: How much do people dislike Info controls ?
« Reply #34 on: January 23, 2018, 07:53:27 pm »
I don't see controls being about 'stamping out cheating'.  Indeed I don't think that where they are placed or whether they are manned/commercial/info has any significant bearing on their effectiveness at preventing cheats (Delph Cyclist will understand what I mean by that)

But controls are, and have always been, an integral part of Randonneur cycling, and I don't think there is any likelihod of them disappearing any time soon.
There are also certain established rules & conventions around them.   Our peculiar UK habit of free-routing between controls and minimum distance sets up additional conventions to those accepted internationally.

As a rider I don't think 3 infos will ever cost me the 20 minutes or so it might take me to ride the extra 7km, but I don't really care either way.... hence 'asking the audience'     

Feanor

  • It's mostly downhill from here.
Re: How much do people dislike Info controls ?
« Reply #35 on: January 23, 2018, 07:59:15 pm »
I think that in moderation, they are fine.

They are usually used as a 'tweek' to force a particular route between 2 other actual controls, for various reasons.
This may be to make up the distance, or it may be to prevent riders using a nasty dual carriageway, or any other reason.

If the route requires lots of them, then the route and main controls probably need looking at again.
But it depends.

Cudzoziemiec

  • Solar powered, tea fuelled cycle-wol
Re: How much do people dislike Info controls ?
« Reply #36 on: January 23, 2018, 08:58:55 pm »
I don't like infos. Especially if it's unclear where they are. One solution I've seen to this (but only two orgs to my knowledge use it) is to put the info on the route, rather than the route on the info; that is, to put a notice somewhere that the route passes, with the answer to the info. One example is Barry's Bristol Ball Buster, the info by the Somerset Monument always consists of a name (usually rock n roll themed, though last year it was Mike Hall) taped to the back of a bench. Most people fancy a breather there anyway, cos it's at the top of a steep hill, gives great views and is early enough in the ride for people to still be in groups but far enough in for them to have got to know each other a bit.

Nowadays I often don't stop at an info, if it's something that can be noticed and remembered by riding past. This means I arrive at the next control without the answer written in my brevet – and often the controller just writes it in automatically! Which kind of brings the point of infos into question.

So I'd rather ride an extra 10km on a good route than have three infos, but if infos are deemed necessary in order to have a good route, I'd go with that.
An ungovernable laughter, a joyous agitation which makes the summer stretching before you seem like an unrolling canvas on which you might draw those first rude pure strokes that are free. (Capote)

LEE

  • "Shut Up Jens" - Legs.
Re: How much do people dislike Info controls ?
« Reply #37 on: January 23, 2018, 09:00:39 pm »
I don't see controls being about 'stamping out cheating'. 

What are they controlling?
Some people say I'm self-obsessed but that's enough about them.

LittleWheelsandBig

  • Whimsy Rider
Re: How much do people dislike Info controls ?
« Reply #38 on: January 23, 2018, 09:08:19 pm »
They give some structure to the event. Otherwise the organiser could simply wave everybody out the door in the morning with a cheery "Now have fun exploring the countryside and don't come back until you've ridden 200km!" Validation would just require the rider's affirmation that they'd done the distance.

That system sounds an awful lot like the Mileater scheme but the Mileater has never been hugely popular.
Wheel meet again, don't know where, don't know when...

Cudzoziemiec

  • Solar powered, tea fuelled cycle-wol
Re: How much do people dislike Info controls ?
« Reply #39 on: January 23, 2018, 09:12:16 pm »
I see that structure as coming mainly from other sources; the controls which are also food stops, the fact that everyone has entered one event and starts together, and most of all from the route the organiser has planned. Take away the route sheet or gpx and just have a list of controls with opening and closing times, and you've got a completely different sort of event.
An ungovernable laughter, a joyous agitation which makes the summer stretching before you seem like an unrolling canvas on which you might draw those first rude pure strokes that are free. (Capote)

LittleWheelsandBig

  • Whimsy Rider
Re: How much do people dislike Info controls ?
« Reply #40 on: January 23, 2018, 09:20:24 pm »
The route is key but the controls are a major factor in the route. I've ridden compulsory route brevets with out-and-back sections (for distance) without any control at the turnaround. I've not found anybody who enjoys that sort of thing but a secret control (with unexpected food, etc.) at the turnaround is quite a different experience.
Wheel meet again, don't know where, don't know when...

Re: How much do people dislike Info controls ?
« Reply #41 on: January 23, 2018, 09:28:55 pm »
I don't see controls being about 'stamping out cheating'. 

What are they controlling?

Lee, in the case of the particular event that I'm planning, the extra distance (which the infos would negate the need for) is mostly along what ISTR is one of your least favourite roads (B2177 from SU488208 to SU549175    :demon:

Cudzoziemiec

  • Solar powered, tea fuelled cycle-wol
Re: How much do people dislike Info controls ?
« Reply #42 on: January 23, 2018, 09:29:28 pm »
Unexpected food is always a different experience!  ;D
An ungovernable laughter, a joyous agitation which makes the summer stretching before you seem like an unrolling canvas on which you might draw those first rude pure strokes that are free. (Capote)

Re: How much do people dislike Info controls ?
« Reply #43 on: January 23, 2018, 09:48:18 pm »
Any chance of a checkpoint instead of an info? I dunno what riders made of them*, but I had a couple of early infos on two of my rides where I had volunteers stamping cards instead.

It certainly makes an organiser's life a bit easier, as everyone goes along and gets a stamp.

*The camper van checkpoint with the mountain of cake supplied by boab and Chris S was, unsurprisingly, Quite Popular.

Re: How much do people dislike Info controls ?
« Reply #44 on: January 23, 2018, 09:59:46 pm »
Any chance of a checkpoint instead of an info? I dunno what riders made of them*, but I had a couple of early infos on two of my rides where I had volunteers stamping cards instead.

It certainly makes an organiser's life a bit easier, as everyone goes along and gets a stamp.

*The camper van checkpoint with the mountain of cake supplied by boab and Chris S was, unsurprisingly, Quite Popular.


You need someone in place for a long time, especially towards the later stages of longer events.  Mind you, I remember the organiser's parents being holed up in a caravan in a lay-by about 400k into the Knotty 600 (many, many years ago).

Re: How much do people dislike Info controls ?
« Reply #45 on: January 23, 2018, 10:03:17 pm »
I know, but luckily I have some folk nearby willing to help for a long shift.

But as I said, I was thinking of replacing early infos where you'd need someone there for an hour or less.

Manotea

  • Where there is doubt...
Re: How much do people dislike Info controls ?
« Reply #46 on: January 23, 2018, 10:04:03 pm »
If the shortest distance by main controls is within, say, 90-95% of nominal without Info's, consider doing away with them and making it a mandatory route.

Re: How much do people dislike Info controls ?
« Reply #47 on: January 23, 2018, 10:25:20 pm »
I suppose they're just an inconvenience if you're following a GPX, having to refer to the card to answer the question. I'd be carrying a camera anyway, so I'd just photo the info.

Re: How much do people dislike Info controls ?
« Reply #48 on: January 23, 2018, 11:15:13 pm »
I don't mind the odd control as it adds to the quirkiness / quaintness of the event, however it pleases my fellow club riders less, many of them not bothering with validation as they are not AUK members and are just after a good days riding (I don't even bother mentioning rides that don't offer paypal and are the 2x sae variety to these guys!).

www.milehousebarn.co.uk - Cycle Frienldy B&B in Nantwich, Chehsire

Martin

  • Give me bas relief
    • WWW
Re: How much do people dislike Info controls ?
« Reply #49 on: January 23, 2018, 11:48:43 pm »
I don't care whether controls are stops or infos. 

What I dislike are intricate routes that zigzag about going nowhere (often because the organiser feels they have to show you every point of interest—rather missing the point of AUK events).  These are inevitably overloaded with controls of all sorts.

may I ask what is the point of AUK events in your opinion?

I would hope that an organiser knows the best routes and points of interest in their area and generally trust their judgement which is never wrong IMX, why would they bother to put the events up otherwise?