Yet another bloody standard...

[quixoticgeek]

Anyone else notice the announcement from shimano of their XTR M9100 groupset?

It's a 12 speed with the option of 1x12, or 2x12. Which is lovely and all. But what I noticed is they are introducing yet another bloddy free hub standard. This time a 23 spline "Micro spline" standard...

Am I the only one urked by yet another way for things to be incompatible?

J

[Canardly]

Yes its wearing a bit thin!

[giropaul]

Campagnolo is rumoured to have had very hard times some years ago, mainly because their stuff lasted and lasted. The manufacturers have learnt, and have identified the new, more affluent, more fashionista markets. With it all goes a much quicker removal of spares etc for anything from previous versions.

[Brucey]

12 speed, 23T micro-spline?  That'll be another thing I won't be bothering to buy then. Chains already last a lot less long than decent tyres do, so 'stuff that' would be my first response.

IMHO Campag stuff ought to last longer because it costs more. In recent years they have made stuff that doesn't last so well, and even sunny weekend type riders manage to wear it out, so they have IMHO shot themselves in the foot; you might as well buy someone else's cheap crap once you have devalued the campag brand in this way.

In the land of SRAM and shimano they are duking it out with ever more complex systems that are ever more likely to go obsolete or be unrepairable even whilst they are current. The transformation of the bicycle from a simple, infinitely repairable and renewable machine to 'just another throwaway consumer durable' (*) subject to annual changes of whim and fashion (disguised as something else) is near-complete.

(*) 'consumer durable' is a name that is half-right; the more such products are consumed, the less durable they tend to be.

cheers

[rogerzilla]

Cameras have gone the same way.  They used to be precision instruments that lasted for ever, now they're plastic and worthless after a few years due to advancing resolution and unrepairability.  They still cost the same.

[chrisbainbridge]

12 speed, 23T micro-spline?  That'll be another thing I won't be bothering to buy then. Chains already last a lot less long than decent tyres do, so 'stuff that' would be my first response.

IMHO Campag stuff ought to last longer because it costs more. In recent years they have made stuff that doesn't last so well, and even sunny weekend type riders manage to wear it out, so they have IMHO shot themselves in the foot; you might as well buy someone else's cheap crap once you have devalued the campag brand in this way.

In the land of SRAM and shimano they are duking it out with ever more complex systems that are ever more likely to go obsolete or be unrepairable even whilst they are current. The transformation of the bicycle from a simple, infinitely repairable and renewable machine to 'just another throwaway consumer durable' (*) subject to annual changes of whim and fashion (disguised as something else) is near-complete.

(*) 'consumer durable' is a name that is half-right; the more such products are consumed, the less durable they tend to be.

cheers

And there was me thinking how simple 1 x 11 had become and how I would miss the complexity of a FD to keep on breaking.

[Torslanda]

Had a customer recently who rides a Boardman CX bike. 1 x 11 with SRAM GX cassette/freehub.

He rides in probably just the middle 3 gears on the cassette and, in 18 months of daily commuting (with almost zero maintenance) managed to wear out 3 chains and 2 cassettes. The cassette was something like 10-42 and cost ~ 140 quid. 

I rebuilt his rear wheel with a 10 speed XT hub and fitted a 12-28 HG500 cassette. He's got more usable gears and a much lower replacement cost. The bonus is the DoubleTap shifter is just as happy on 10 as it was on 11 speed.

<Personal Grumble> I wish they'd just fuck off with the 'innovation' shit </Personal Grumble>

[Brucey]

in theory the 10s sprockets are something like 0.05mm wider spaced than the 11s ones. In practice this will make stuff-all difference.

AFAICT the SRAM 11s X-actuation shifters will pull 3.48mm per click. This happens to be almost identical to the cable pull per click for campag 8s indexing. This means that an old campag 8s mech with a ~5.0mm pitch cassette (shimano 7 or campag 8, maybe shimano 8 as well) would have worked too.

One of my chums is in the same dilemma BTW; (as I had warned might likely turn out to be the case) a few months of commuting on his SRAM 11s setup has reduced it (including the chainring)  to worn-out uselessness (despite some TLC) and even though he can get bits at trade prices he is looking at spending well over three figures to get the transmission back in fine fettle again. It is a lot of money to spend for the privilege of  lugging around a few extra sprockets he might hardly ever use, even if there is one less chainring to worry about....

Needless to say (and apols if this is b-obvious) if you have a double or a triple, and you don't use various chainrings often, they don't wear out and they don't need to be replaced along with the stuff that does wear out...

cheers

[Oxford_Guy]

12 speed, 23T micro-spline?  That'll be another thing I won't be bothering to buy then. Chains already last a lot less long than decent tyres do, so 'stuff that' would be my first response.

IMHO Campag stuff ought to last longer because it costs more. In recent years they have made stuff that doesn't last so well, and even sunny weekend type riders manage to wear it out, so they have IMHO shot themselves in the foot; you might as well buy someone else's cheap crap once you have devalued the campag brand in this way.

In the land of SRAM and shimano they are duking it out with ever more complex systems that are ever more likely to go obsolete or be unrepairable even whilst they are current. The transformation of the bicycle from a simple, infinitely repairable and renewable machine to 'just another throwaway consumer durable' (*) subject to annual changes of whim and fashion (disguised as something else) is near-complete.

(*) 'consumer durable' is a name that is half-right; the more such products are consumed, the less durable they tend to be.

cheers

And there was me thinking how simple 1 x 11 had become and how I would miss the complexity of a FD to keep on breaking.

Yes, those terribly unreliable FDs, like the triple XT one on my Hewitt tourer which has been utterly problem-free for almost 10 years despite using  it daily year-round for commuting, as well as numerous bike tours... 

[toontra]

And there was me thinking how simple 1 x 11 had become and how I would miss the complexity of a FD to keep on breaking.

Yes, those terribly unreliable FDs, like the triple XT one on my Hewitt tourer which has been utterly problem-free for almost 10 years despite using  it daily year-round for commuting, as well as numerous bike tours... 

Indeed.  FD's can be fiddly to set up when first fitting but all of mine have required no adjustment or attention since (on several bikes, some running for over 10 years and even, heaven forbid, triples )