Author Topic: Windsor Triathlon - fecking knobends!!!!  (Read 4835 times)

FatBloke

  • I come from a land up over!
Windsor Triathlon - fecking knobends!!!!
« on: June 18, 2018, 09:57:00 am »
Am ashamed to call myself a cyclist after seeing this. These twats should be identified and prosecuted!!!

http://road.cc/content/news/243742-video-horse-and-rider-struck-undertaking-cyclist-participating-triathlon#comment-1729579


This isn't just a thousand to one shot. This is a professional blood sport. It can happen to you. And it can happen again.

Re: Windsor Triathlon - fecking knobends!!!!
« Reply #1 on: June 18, 2018, 10:04:46 am »
Thread already started covering this - unsurprisingly in DOTD.

Re: Windsor Triathlon - fecking knobends!!!!
« Reply #2 on: June 18, 2018, 02:51:54 pm »
I think that it is right to have this in “ racing” . The reason is that events like this one are run outside the Cycle Racing on the Highway law - the sheer number and lack of intervals between riders would mean this.
So; what happens? I suggest that CTT timetrials and road races run within the law could suffer. The original Facebook thread is full of “ why can cyclists race on the open road when motorsport can’t?” type comments. The public see this as a bike race, when it is of course a triathlon. However, the opposition to cyclists and especially to ANY sort of cycling events is growing, fuelled by incidents such as these.

LEE

  • "Shut Up Jens" - Legs.
Re: Windsor Triathlon - fecking knobends!!!!
« Reply #3 on: June 18, 2018, 03:56:08 pm »
This was clearly a race.  It's a Triathlon so I assume it was a mass start race event.

The video clearly shows a large group of cyclists (presumably all head-down, draughting (some on Tri-bars), and not looking where the fuck they were going (or not caring).

It's a recipe for accidents when you have mixed ability group road-racing like this. 

I think it's wholly inappropriate to race on open public roads without suitable marshalling/signage.  Competition encourages risk-taking and I'm 100% positive that such competition led to these irresponsible manoeuvres.

On top of that...Dickheads!   We don't need any more excuses for "fucking wanker cyclists" items in the news or on Social media.

What is MORE irritating though is the amount of attention this is getting when I'll wager my house that there are 1000x more videos like this showing cars going too fast/close to horses. 

Come down to the New Forest and watch the boy racers flying past the ponies by the roadside.
Some people say I'm self-obsessed but that's enough about them.

Re: Windsor Triathlon - fecking knobends!!!!
« Reply #4 on: June 18, 2018, 04:07:51 pm »
For information; in (most) amateur triathlon events you are not allowed to draft and you should have 7 (or is it 10 these days?) meters between you and the rider in front unless you are overtaking; in which case you have a certain amount of time to overtake (which I can't remember).
BUT
there's a whole difference between what is supposed to happen and what does happen. However the only triathlons I have done that have been bad for drafting have been on closed roads. And I mostly race in Scotland, where there is more space.

None of this is to condone what is shown in the video. I hope One Step Beyond and British Triathlon come down hard on those involved.

One thing that does concern me is that the horse rider said they had no warning of the event being on; most races I do have "Caution Cyclists" signs everywhere.
EDIT that last sentence reads a bit too much like victim-blaming; of course the horse rider had every right to be where they were. I'm just surprised they were not aware that there was a race on.

quixoticgeek

  • Mostly Harmless
Re: Windsor Triathlon - fecking knobends!!!!
« Reply #5 on: June 18, 2018, 10:58:23 pm »


There is very little dispute that the cyclist in question is a complete fucking moron who deserves their DSQ.

However, the BBC have reported on the subject, and taken the opportunity to generally knock cyclists:

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-berkshire-44512967


'Amanda Coyne, who lives near the route of the race, said she had encountered cyclists riding "dangerously" while driving shortly before 09:00.

"I nearly had a heart attack as I nearly got hit by a car which had been forced to overtake cyclists who were riding four-abreast," she said.'

No Amanda. Noone is forced to over take. Whether cycling, driving, walking. Overtaking is a choice. it is the choice where to do it and when. If a motorist decides to over take 4 cyclists abreast, in such a way that it is effecting a nearby pedestrian, then it is not appropriate to over take. The motorist is in the wrong (the cyclists too for being more than 4 abreast, but the motorist is more in the wrong).

This is one of my many road user pet hates. People who think that it is there obligation to over take a slower cyclist, regardless of if it is safe to do so. Be it on a blind bend, over crest of a hill, crossing a solid white line, etc... If it isn't safe to move completely into the opposite lane to overtake, then it is not safe to overtake. It's that simple.

This is why road user education is needed. As mentioned in other rants.

J

--
Beer, bikes, and backpacking
http://b.42q.eu/

Re: Windsor Triathlon - fecking knobends!!!!
« Reply #6 on: June 19, 2018, 09:05:36 am »

None of this is to condone what is shown in the video. I hope One Step Beyond and British Triathlon come down hard on those involved.

One thing that does concern me is that the horse rider said they had no warning of the event being on; most races I do have "Caution Cyclists" signs everywhere.
EDIT that last sentence reads a bit too much like victim-blaming; of course the horse rider had every right to be where they were. I'm just surprised they were not aware that there was a race on.


To be honest, I think the organiser are being a being slopey shouldered in their response.  If we take the horse rider's statement (that she was unaware of the event and hadn't passed any signs) at face value, then the organiser has a lot to answer for.  The potential presence of horse riders should have been highlighted in any risk assessment (presumably it is a rural area, and there are some livery stables nearby). This should then have resulted in the organiser contacting livery yards before the race and explicitly signing up places where people are likely to enter the road in question.  There shouldn't be the situation where a race with large numbers of riders should be a surprise to other road users.

Re: Windsor Triathlon - fecking knobends!!!!
« Reply #7 on: June 19, 2018, 09:10:43 am »
It was a triathlon, not a cycling event.  No cycling organisations involved.

Re: Windsor Triathlon - fecking knobends!!!!
« Reply #8 on: June 19, 2018, 09:21:42 am »
It was a triathlon, not a cycling event.  No cycling organisations involved.
Jasmine says "Race organisers" which is correct. Someone organised the triathlon, and should have risk assessed the swim, the bike, and the run.

(I've ben asking myself whether I would behave differently if I came across a horse while I was racing, as opposed to what I do when I'm out for a ride, which is slow right down and get permssion to pass. Would I be a bit less cautious/courteous in a triathlon? Probably. I'd still keep my distance from a horse!)

Re: Windsor Triathlon - fecking knobends!!!!
« Reply #9 on: June 19, 2018, 12:08:58 pm »
I was vaguely interested in the legal basis on which triathlons operate on UK roads, but I'd need to register for an account on the British Triathlon site to get that info, and I'm not that interested / have work to do.  I'd assume it is the same as for time trials, but would be interested if it was different. 

The British Triathlon site says this about risk assessments:
"All permitted events listed on the British Triathlon and Home Nation Associations websites have committed to carrying out safety assessments of their events, which they are required to submit to British Triathlon along with proof that the event is covered by adequate insurance."

citoyen

  • Cat 6 Racer
Re: Windsor Triathlon - fecking knobends!!!!
« Reply #10 on: June 19, 2018, 12:39:04 pm »
It was a triathlon, not a cycling event.  No cycling organisations involved.

True, though I understand the organisers behind this farce are Human Race, who do organise a number of large cycling events, including the Tour de Yorkshire sportive and the Dragon Ride.

They really ought to know better.

Re: Windsor Triathlon - fecking knobends!!!!
« Reply #11 on: June 19, 2018, 02:01:13 pm »
I was vaguely interested in the legal basis on which triathlons operate on UK roads, but I'd need to register for an account on the British Triathlon site to get that info, and I'm not that interested / have work to do.  I'd assume it is the same as for time trials, but would be interested if it was different. 

I probably have an account so I could have a look if you can explain what I'm looking for.
I think you are probably right about it being like a time trial because the bike leg of a tri is a time trial, and, although you can take part in a tri on any roadworthy bike, people who take it seriously tend to ride TT bikes if they can afford one.

Re: Windsor Triathlon - fecking knobends!!!!
« Reply #12 on: June 19, 2018, 03:07:32 pm »
Not to try to legitimise things, but this looks like a clump of cyclists came up behind the horse without seeing it and then split to pass either side of it.
This happens all the time in organised races around street furniture, but the idea that they failed to observe a horse is ridiculous.

The whole thing just makes me angry as it's just one more thing for my non-cycling friends to point out to me and one more thing (like red-light jumping, pavement riding and not stopping at zebra crossings) where I can only agree that it's shitty behaviour.

AK

    • Bloggy blog
Re: Windsor Triathlon - fecking knobends!!!!
« Reply #13 on: June 19, 2018, 03:16:16 pm »
Like Fimm said earlier, triathlons are usually either draft legal, i.e. you can ride in a group or non-draft legal. Pretty certain this event was the latter, so all competitors should be a minimum distance from each over, usually a 7m by 3m box, and the onus is on the rider being overtaken to drop back out of the draft zone.

Even so, this is just awful riding. Racing and completely oblivious to their surroundings. I've done a few Human race Triathlons and off-road runs in the past and their organisation is excellent; I can't imagine that there was a lack of signage. I really hope that  they find those responsible and throw the book at them.

Re: Windsor Triathlon - fecking knobends!!!!
« Reply #14 on: June 19, 2018, 09:06:36 pm »

(I've ben asking myself whether I would behave differently if I came across a horse while I was racing, as opposed to what I do when I'm out for a ride, which is slow right down and get permssion to pass. Would I be a bit less cautious/courteous in a triathlon? Probably. I'd still keep my distance from a horse!)

We had that situation a couple of weekends ago on a BC road race. The lead moto gave us a warning over the radio that there were a couple of horses on the road. He went and had a chat with the riders to let them know that the race was coming up behind them. Normally there'll be enough time for them to find somewhere safe to wait, but on this occasion there wasn't as it was a country lane with high banks. They tried to get to a turn off, but the race was bearing down on them and one of the horses was skittish so quite slow. I was second moto (the first had gone ahead by that point), and sent a warning back to the lead cars over the radio. I maintained a safe buffer distance behind the horses, the lead cars behind me slowed down the whole race to walking pace until the horses were safely clear (and I thanked the horse riders).

Basically, the racers didn't get an option as to what to do, the officials sorted it and ensured everyone was safe.

Re: Windsor Triathlon - fecking knobends!!!!
« Reply #15 on: June 20, 2018, 06:13:24 am »

(I've ben asking myself whether I would behave differently if I came across a horse while I was racing, as opposed to what I do when I'm out for a ride, which is slow right down and get permssion to pass. Would I be a bit less cautious/courteous in a triathlon? Probably. I'd still keep my distance from a horse!)

We had that situation a couple of weekends ago on a BC road race. The lead moto gave us a warning over the radio that there were a couple of horses on the road. He went and had a chat with the riders to let them know that the race was coming up behind them. Normally there'll be enough time for them to find somewhere safe to wait, but on this occasion there wasn't as it was a country lane with high banks. They tried to get to a turn off, but the race was bearing down on them and one of the horses was skittish so quite slow. I was second moto (the first had gone ahead by that point), and sent a warning back to the lead cars over the radio. I maintained a safe buffer distance behind the horses, the lead cars behind me slowed down the whole race to walking pace until the horses were safely clear (and I thanked the horse riders).

Basically, the racers didn't get an option as to what to do, the officials sorted it and ensured everyone was safe.

Excellent, that’s how a properly ( and legal) race is run. Unfortunately there’s no viral Facebook thread about this.

Re: Windsor Triathlon - fecking knobends!!!!
« Reply #16 on: June 20, 2018, 09:21:38 am »
Great to know how these things are done in an actual cycle race, Matt.

The organisers can't solely blame the riders for this as, assuming they are operating on the same legal basis as a time trial, they have allowed a bunch race to develop.  That shows a failure on their part either from not seeding their field correctly, not having wide enough intervals between starters or picking a course with a feature, such as a hill, which made bunching likely. 

If they are operating on the same legal basis as a road race then, as Matt's story illustrates, they have failed in too many areas to list.

quixoticgeek

  • Mostly Harmless
Re: Windsor Triathlon - fecking knobends!!!!
« Reply #17 on: June 20, 2018, 09:23:19 am »
Great to know how these things are done in an actual cycle race, Matt.

The organisers can't solely blame the riders for this as, assuming they are operating on the same legal basis as a time trial, they have allowed a bunch race to develop.  That shows a failure on their part either from not seeding their field correctly, not having wide enough intervals between starters or picking a course with a feature, such as a hill, which made bunching likely. 

If they are operating on the same legal basis as a road race then, as Matt's story illustrates, they have failed in too many areas to list.

Around this screw up there has been a wider discussion on how we as cyclists can be better road users around horses.

Emily Chappell started a really interesting discussion about this on twitter, I can recommend digging out the thread and having a read. Both cyclists and horse riders have replied.

J
--
Beer, bikes, and backpacking
http://b.42q.eu/

citoyen

  • Cat 6 Racer
Re: Windsor Triathlon - fecking knobends!!!!
« Reply #18 on: June 20, 2018, 09:24:17 am »
Excellent, that’s how a properly ( and legal) race is run. Unfortunately there’s no viral Facebook thread about this.

I was thinking exactly the same. It's a shame you only hear about cycling events in the news when it's because of locals complaining about disruption or incidents of fuckwittery from participants. And yet there are many, many cycling events taking place all the time that pass totally under the radar.

Last summer, I was supposed to be driving the commissaire on a local race, but it was cancelled half an hour before the scheduled start time due to unforeseen problems on the route. It was a regional championship and the riders were all hugely disappointed, as you'd expect, but it was entirely the right decision.

Re: Windsor Triathlon - fecking knobends!!!!
« Reply #19 on: June 20, 2018, 10:07:39 am »

The organisers can't solely blame the riders for this as, assuming they are operating on the same legal basis as a time trial, they have allowed a bunch race to develop.  That shows a failure on their part either from not seeding their field correctly, not having wide enough intervals between starters or picking a course with a feature, such as a hill, which made bunching likely. 


Err, it is a triathlon. It will have gone off in waves, but a number of people will all have enetered the water together. Some of them will swim faster than others, so that will spread them out to some extent, but some of the slowers swimmers will be faster cyclists and vice versa, so there will be a lot of swapping of positions. It is a bit different to the draft-legal racing you see on TV.

There will (I assume) have been motor bike marshalls on the course but clearly there wasn't one in the right place at the right time to warn of the horse. There will be cyclists spread over quite a wide amount of road (up to 20km for a one lap Sprint) - probably more so than in Matt's cycle race.

Can anyone explain why the horse is on the right hand side of the road?

cygnet

  • I'm part of the association
Re: Windsor Triathlon - fecking knobends!!!!
« Reply #20 on: June 20, 2018, 10:21:31 am »
Can anyone explain why the horse is on the right hand side of the road?

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telstarbox

  • Loving the lanes
Re: Windsor Triathlon - fecking knobends!!!!
« Reply #21 on: June 20, 2018, 10:22:11 am »
The horse is in "primary" position maybe, but still definitely left of the centre line.
2019 🏅 R1000 and B1000

Re: Windsor Triathlon - fecking knobends!!!!
« Reply #22 on: June 20, 2018, 10:47:01 am »
Because some twonk on a bike is undertaking it?

Re: Windsor Triathlon - fecking knobends!!!!
« Reply #23 on: June 20, 2018, 11:14:40 am »
I have distinct memories of a family fun ride that my mum used to organise when she was parish clerk, it was only a 5 mile bimble round the country lanes to be ridden at your own pace. Various councilors would be marshaling key junctions, my father would ride TEC with an extended tool kit and I was tasked with riding the front to wake the marshals at each junction and then start a second lap to collect the route marking signs in.

One year I remember a 13/14 year old age cat racer on the ride whose father was with a younger sibling, I was 20 or 21 but a tourer. This kid was pushing me to ride fast to stay with him as he knew the route. About 2/3rd of the way round I slowed because I had a horse ahead and an oncoming car, the lad went passed my left and then through the gap between the horse and the car. Effectively without crossing the white lines. I had to apologise to the rider and never caught the kid. Karma struck later as the route had changed from the previous year and the marshal for the right turn needed alerting from his car so the kid went the wrong way before I could stop him.

Back at the finish the father turned up as about the 10th rider in and I explained why his son wasn't there before setting off for my second lap. I believe the son got a roasting and an education on passing horses.

Re: Windsor Triathlon - fecking knobends!!!!
« Reply #24 on: June 20, 2018, 12:28:04 pm »
Emily Chappell started a really interesting discussion about this on twitter, I can recommend digging out the thread and having a read. Both cyclists and horse riders have replied.

https://twitter.com/emilychappell/status/1008607479033409536