Author Topic: Windsor Triathlon - fecking knobends!!!!  (Read 3255 times)

Re: Windsor Triathlon - fecking knobends!!!!
« Reply #25 on: June 20, 2018, 12:49:48 pm »
Emily Chappell started a really interesting discussion about this on twitter, I can recommend digging out the thread and having a read. Both cyclists and horse riders have replied.

https://twitter.com/emilychappell/status/1008607479033409536
All pretty much common sense, though the advice to avoid freewheeling was new to me. But then I don't particularly like clicky hubs anyway!
The earth is vast and beautiful and contains many miraculous places. (Chekhov)

Kim

  • 2nd in the world
Re: Windsor Triathlon - fecking knobends!!!!
« Reply #26 on: June 20, 2018, 01:07:08 pm »
All pretty much common sense, though the advice to avoid freewheeling was new to me. But then I don't particularly like clicky hubs anyway!

Yeah, it hadn't occurred to me either, but I don't have anything noisier than a Shimano XT.  I find freewheeling positively helpful when the horse is wary of a recumbent.  The pedalling motion at the front seems to be second only to flags (which I don't use) for consistently upsetting horses.

Apart from the comedy kickstand incident[1] a few years ago, I've had very little trouble passing horses on a DF bike.  They've generally seen one before[2].


[1] I was taking a sandwich break at a convenient bench on a grass triangle.  The bike was on its stand at the side of the tarmac road.  A horse appeared and absolutely refused to go any closer until I'd got up and wheeled the bike a bit to demonstrate what it was.  The horse rider found this hilarious.
[2] There's a horse that lives in a field I ride past regularly on a recumbent which recognises me and comes up to the fence to watch.  It's just a matter of what they're used to.
To ride the Windcheetah, first, you must embrace the cantilever...

FatBloke

  • I come from a land up over!
Re: Windsor Triathlon - fecking knobends!!!!
« Reply #27 on: June 20, 2018, 01:16:28 pm »
Can anyone explain why the horse is on the right hand side of the road?

Because you can't tell your left from your right?   ??? ???
This isn't just a thousand to one shot. This is a professional blood sport. It can happen to you. And it can happen again.

Re: Windsor Triathlon - fecking knobends!!!!
« Reply #28 on: June 20, 2018, 02:46:16 pm »

Apart from the comedy kickstand incident[1] a few years ago, I've had very little trouble passing horses on a DF bike.  They've generally seen one before[2].


[1] I was taking a sandwich break at a convenient bench on a grass triangle.  The bike was on its stand at the side of the tarmac road.  A horse appeared and absolutely refused to go any closer until I'd got up and wheeled the bike a bit to demonstrate what it was.  The horse rider found this hilarious.
[2] There's a horse that lives in a field I ride past regularly on a recumbent which recognises me and comes up to the fence to watch.  It's just a matter of what they're used to.

At the top of a short, steep hill just off the Yate spur of the Bristol-Bath path is a stable. Once when I was spinning rapidly labouring up this hill, right at the top I saw a horse ahead of me. The road here is very narrow. Okay, I thought, I'll take it easy, the horse is bound to go into the stables. Which they started to do, then stopped dead. Must have seen me out of the corner of its eye and been scared, I thought, so stopped and spoke to the rider. "It's not you," said the rider, "there are some new hay bales in the stable yard that weren't there when we left, so she won't go in."
The earth is vast and beautiful and contains many miraculous places. (Chekhov)

Kim

  • 2nd in the world
Re: Windsor Triathlon - fecking knobends!!!!
« Reply #29 on: June 20, 2018, 02:49:07 pm »
Being scared of hay may be a new peak of horse neuroticism...
To ride the Windcheetah, first, you must embrace the cantilever...

Re: Windsor Triathlon - fecking knobends!!!!
« Reply #30 on: June 20, 2018, 02:53:04 pm »
At the top of a short, steep hill just off the Yate spur of the Bristol-Bath path is a stable. Once when I was spinning rapidly labouring up this hill, right at the top I saw a horse ahead of me. The road here is very narrow. Okay, I thought, I'll take it easy, the horse is bound to go into the stables. Which they started to do, then stopped dead. Must have seen me out of the corner of its eye and been scared, I thought, so stopped and spoke to the rider. "It's not you," said the rider, "there are some new hay bales in the stable yard that weren't there when we left, so she won't go in."

I'm lead to believe this unpredictability is all part of the charm of riding a horse!

Re: Windsor Triathlon - fecking knobends!!!!
« Reply #31 on: June 20, 2018, 02:55:12 pm »
TBF to the horse, I think the bales were still wrapped in plastic so perhaps not recognizably nice, tasty, nutritious, good-to-sleep-in hay. Though you'd assume a horse would have seen similar bales before.
The earth is vast and beautiful and contains many miraculous places. (Chekhov)

citoyen

  • Cat 6 Racer
Re: Windsor Triathlon - fecking knobends!!!!
« Reply #32 on: June 20, 2018, 04:38:30 pm »
I'm lead to believe this unpredictability is all part of the charm of riding a horse!

Yes, I find juggling live chainsaws has a similar kind of charm.

Re: Windsor Triathlon - fecking knobends!!!!
« Reply #33 on: June 20, 2018, 04:43:15 pm »
Quote from: citoyen
Yes, I find juggling live chainsaws has a similar kind of charm.

 ;D

Re: Windsor Triathlon - fecking knobends!!!!
« Reply #34 on: June 20, 2018, 04:48:37 pm »
What's more predictable, a horse or a triathlete on a bike? :P

Phil W

Re: Windsor Triathlon - fecking knobends!!!!
« Reply #35 on: June 20, 2018, 04:59:15 pm »
This is what happens when motorists take part in triathlons.

quixoticgeek

  • Mostly Harmless
Re: Windsor Triathlon - fecking knobends!!!!
« Reply #36 on: June 20, 2018, 05:28:59 pm »
What's more predictable, a horse or a triathlete on a bike? :P

Exactly how many horses ride bikes?

BTW, this statement is reportedly by the horse rider:



J
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Beer, bikes, and backpacking
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LEE

  • "Shut Up Jens" - Legs.
Re: Windsor Triathlon - fecking knobends!!!!
« Reply #37 on: June 20, 2018, 06:19:41 pm »

To be honest, I think the organiser are being a being slopey shouldered in their response.  If we take the horse rider's statement (that she was unaware of the event and hadn't passed any signs) at face value, then the organiser has a lot to answer for. 

Signs or no signs, horse rider aware or unaware, I only see irresponsible cycling behaviour.  How are signs and awareness going to help someone who needs to ride down that road at that particular moment?

It could have been a child riding a bike, someone out walking, a broken down car ..etc.  All would have involved in a collision because if you can't see a horse then you can't see anything.

Putting signs out doesn't automatically shift liability away from people racing on public roads.  Rules of the road still apply presumably. 

"Cycling Event" signs cover a lot of things.  Personally I don't interpret them as "Triathletes going flat out but not looking where they are going".

What I'm trying to say is, throw your TT bars away, get a saddlebag, some mudguards, make some sandwiches to put in you new saddlebag, swap your silly vest for a proper jersey (wool preferably) and do an Audax instead.
Some people say I'm self-obsessed but that's enough about them.

mattc

  • n.b. have grown beard since photo taken
    • Didcot Audaxes
Re: Windsor Triathlon - fecking knobends!!!!
« Reply #38 on: June 20, 2018, 06:54:14 pm »
The "Cycling Event" warning signs are not intended to mitigate the danger FROM the riders!

I think Jasmine's right in that it's a big oversight to not consider horse-riders - but at the same time, I think you can see how that happened. I can't remember riding a TT and meeting a horse; so if I did a Risk-Assesment of a new course it's quite possible that I would totally ignore the issue of horses, and fail to notice any stables/liveries nearby. Verdict: very unfortunate.

Anyway, I could write the predictable anti-triathelope stuff, but let's move on:

 the best thing here is that response from the rider  :thumbsup:


https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Df_Ja9BW4AER1iP.jpg
Has never ridden RAAM
---------
No.11  Because of the great host of those who dislike the least appearance of "swank " when they travel the roads and lanes. - From Kuklos' 39 Articles

citoyen

  • Cat 6 Racer
Re: Windsor Triathlon - fecking knobends!!!!
« Reply #39 on: June 20, 2018, 07:06:33 pm »
I can't remember riding a TT and meeting a horse

You wouldn't meet a horse on either of my local TT routes - one is on a dual carriageway, the other on a closed cycle track.

I did the Sevenoaks triathlon once, which uses the roads around Knole Park. I have encountered horses around there on other rides but fortunately none on that event. If I had, though, I like to think I would have behaved the same as if I'd been on any other ride - ie slowed the fuck down and given them as wide a berth as possible. The Sevenoaks tri is a popular and well-organised event, and I would imagine the organisers are reasonably clued up about the possibility of horses on the route. It would be a shame to tar all triathlons and triathletes with the same brush.

Tbh, my general principle on how to behave around horses is based largely on self-preservation - I don't want one of them massive feckers kicking me, thank you very much. I'd also hate to be responsible for one unseating its rider.

Kim

  • 2nd in the world
Re: Windsor Triathlon - fecking knobends!!!!
« Reply #40 on: June 20, 2018, 07:09:18 pm »
I'm not entirely sure what "Cycling Event" signs are actually supposed to achieve.

I suppose as a motorist they'd mostly tell me that there's little point in trying to overtake this little group of MAMILs, as there's only going to be another cluster of them round the corner.
To ride the Windcheetah, first, you must embrace the cantilever...

mattc

  • n.b. have grown beard since photo taken
    • Didcot Audaxes
Re: Windsor Triathlon - fecking knobends!!!!
« Reply #41 on: June 20, 2018, 07:22:17 pm »
I'm not entirely sure what "Cycling Event" signs are actually supposed to achieve.

I suppose as a motorist they'd mostly tell me that there's little point in trying to overtake this little group of MAMILs, as there's only going to be another cluster of them round the corner.
On CTT events they're mainly used at junctions where the riders have priority - thus IN THEORY reducing SMIDSYs. It is a fact that more RTAs occur at junctions than the number of hit-from-behind incidents. HOWEVER no statistics show a reduction in accidents from putting these signs out  :facepalm:
Has never ridden RAAM
---------
No.11  Because of the great host of those who dislike the least appearance of "swank " when they travel the roads and lanes. - From Kuklos' 39 Articles

Ben T

  • What you saying, then?
Re: Windsor Triathlon - fecking knobends!!!!
« Reply #42 on: June 20, 2018, 08:27:42 pm »
It's said that people turn into knobheads when they get into cars, well there's something about triathlons that turns people into cocks as well.
I was once going to the gym, and it happened to be also being used for  the changeover part from running to cycling, and while going across the car park one of them just yelled at me to "GET OUT THE WAY!!!"
As if I should somehow understand why his leisure pursuit is infinitely more important than mine.
I also disagree with the closing of roads that goes on for them. It's like, we're going to disrupt your day because our hobby is more important than yours and we want the road all to ourselves.
Sod off. Cocks, the lot of 'em.

This is one rare occasion when I actually side with the horse rider and that's saying something because I am not exactly the world's biggest horse fan.
This is destiny, it's fate, it's the matrix working in my favour.

Re: Windsor Triathlon - fecking knobends!!!!
« Reply #43 on: June 20, 2018, 08:44:33 pm »
I'm not entirely sure what "Cycling Event" signs are actually supposed to achieve.

I suppose as a motorist they'd mostly tell me that there's little point in trying to overtake this little group of MAMILs, as there's only going to be another cluster of them round the corner.
On CTT events they're mainly used at junctions where the riders have priority - thus IN THEORY reducing SMIDSYs. It is a fact that more RTAs occur at junctions than the number of hit-from-behind incidents. HOWEVER no statistics show a reduction in accidents from putting these signs out  :facepalm:


It largely depends on what sort of event it is.  On a mass start cycling event, the signs are positioned to warn oncoming traffic and traffic coming out of junctions. In these events, the ability to overtake the group of riders (who are largely unlikely to be MAMILS) will be severely restricted by the race convoy vehicles. They are also used at junctions where marshals will be stopping traffic to allow to race to proceed where they wouldn't normally have priority. In TTs they are primarily used at junctions, and in triathlon they are used randomly.

In the case of horse riders, when approaching a junction with a big 'caution cyclists, race in progress' sign on it, most horse riders will decide that they may want to take a slightly different, more enjoyable route that day, because by and large, their rides are not determined by needing to go from A to B. In this case, the rider had made a point that she hadn't known about the event, and hadn't seen any signs to indicate she was on the race route.  Presumably if she had known, she would have gone somewhere else, or gone at a different time.

Also, not putting out the signs is indicative of either not doing a full risk assessment, or not complying with one.  Whilst many people wouldn't think about livery stables, the risk assessors for a British Cycling event certainly do.  In higher risk locations, organisers are instructed to visit livery stables to notify them. Race briefings will include rider behaviour and not being a dick.  Whilst the specific actions on the video clip are individual irresponsible behaviour, race organisers and governing bodies have a role to play in safety of all road users during their events.

Re: Windsor Triathlon - fecking knobends!!!!
« Reply #44 on: June 20, 2018, 08:53:03 pm »
Can anyone explain why the horse is on the right hand side of the road?

Because whatever you're using to play the video is playing it flipped horizontally.
"Yes please" said Squirrel "biscuits are our favourite things."

Kim

  • 2nd in the world
Re: Windsor Triathlon - fecking knobends!!!!
« Reply #45 on: June 20, 2018, 08:57:27 pm »
I was under the impression that horseists often ride routes that are primarily on bridleways and join them up with roads where needed, much in the way that mountain bikers might.  Seems entirely possible for them to emerge from a bridleway onto a road between junctions and therefore not encounter a sign, unless the organisers were actively thinking horse.
To ride the Windcheetah, first, you must embrace the cantilever...

LEE

  • "Shut Up Jens" - Legs.
Re: Windsor Triathlon - fecking knobends!!!!
« Reply #46 on: June 20, 2018, 09:00:20 pm »
Can anyone explain why the horse is on the right hand side of the road?

Because whatever you're using to play the video is playing it flipped horizontally.

Didn't it flip the cyclists horizontally?
Some people say I'm self-obsessed but that's enough about them.

David Martin

  • Thats Dr Oi You thankyouverymuch
Re: Windsor Triathlon - fecking knobends!!!!
« Reply #47 on: June 20, 2018, 10:50:46 pm »

(I've ben asking myself whether I would behave differently if I came across a horse while I was racing, as opposed to what I do when I'm out for a ride, which is slow right down and get permssion to pass. Would I be a bit less cautious/courteous in a triathlon? Probably. I'd still keep my distance from a horse!)

We had that situation a couple of weekends ago on a BC road race. The lead moto gave us a warning over the radio that there were a couple of horses on the road. He went and had a chat with the riders to let them know that the race was coming up behind them. Normally there'll be enough time for them to find somewhere safe to wait, but on this occasion there wasn't as it was a country lane with high banks. They tried to get to a turn off, but the race was bearing down on them and one of the horses was skittish so quite slow. I was second moto (the first had gone ahead by that point), and sent a warning back to the lead cars over the radio. I maintained a safe buffer distance behind the horses, the lead cars behind me slowed down the whole race to walking pace until the horses were safely clear (and I thanked the horse riders).

Basically, the racers didn't get an option as to what to do, the officials sorted it and ensured everyone was safe.


I was lead comm for a local race and we had a similar thing - break up the road and some horses ahead. We were fully prepared to neutralise the race until the horses were clear. I'd probably take the time gap and give the break the time back after the delay, but it is an amateur race, on open roads and it is what can happen so you just suck it up and do the right thing.

Fortunately the horses were clear before we needed to do anything. Having NEG is a godsend in these situations.
"By creating we think. By living we learn" - Patrick Geddes

Re: Windsor Triathlon - fecking knobends!!!!
« Reply #48 on: June 21, 2018, 12:27:04 pm »
Can anyone explain why the horse is on the right hand side of the road?
I have no idea what I was thinking when I asked this.

fd3

Re: Windsor Triathlon - fecking knobends!!!!
« Reply #49 on: June 21, 2018, 11:26:29 pm »
The motorist is in the wrong (the cyclists too for being more than 4 abreast, but the motorist is more in the wrong).
The HC says you shouldn't ride more than two abreast on narrow roads (IIRC, it's not like I check it on a regular basis).  Not sure if that is a narrow road or what classifies as a narrow road.  Also can't remember if the wording is "must" or "should".