Author Topic: AUK FINANCES AND WEBSITE PROJECT was: AUK CHAIRMAN STATEMENT  (Read 29461 times)

CrinklyUncle

  • #TCRNo6cap23
Re: AUK CHAIRMAN STATEMENT
« Reply #150 on: August 22, 2018, 04:47:22 pm »

Re: AUK CHAIRMAN STATEMENT
« Reply #151 on: August 22, 2018, 05:04:59 pm »

Re: AUK CHAIRMAN STATEMENT
« Reply #152 on: August 23, 2018, 02:16:39 pm »
its occurred to me that AUK IT refresh is a little bit like Brexit. In the sense that (some/most of) the populace wants to do one thing, but the powers that be/elected representatives know that they need to do something else for reasons that the populace don't fully appreciate.
Similar in the respect that, the powers that be have spent a lot of time dealing with the detail and intricacies and have their own ideas as to how problems need to be solved, but the public weigh in with their 'concern' over 'where "our" money is going'.
Also similar in the respect that the IT contractor/the EU is perceived as 'the bad guy' and that they, and the deal with them, isn't without its problems, but that they are needed.

I'm not sure the membership should be given the vote on whether to can the project or not/what to do, since they (we) don't know the detail and the intricacies of the whys and wherefores.
It is what it is. It's not what it's not, so it must be what it is.

Re: AUK CHAIRMAN STATEMENT
« Reply #153 on: August 23, 2018, 02:27:24 pm »
its occurred to me that AUK IT refresh is a little bit like Brexit.

Er, no. Pretty much everyone who has contact with the AUK IT backend feels it urgently needs some updating.

There was never ever any need for Brexit.

vorsprung

  • Opposites Attract
    • Audaxing
Re: AUK CHAIRMAN STATEMENT
« Reply #154 on: August 23, 2018, 02:33:55 pm »
its occurred to me that AUK IT refresh is a little bit like Brexit. In the sense that (some/most of) the populace wants to do one thing, but the powers that be/elected representatives know that they need to do something else for reasons that the populace don't fully appreciate.
Similar in the respect that, the powers that be have spent a lot of time dealing with the detail and intricacies and have their own ideas as to how problems need to be solved, but the public weigh in with their 'concern' over 'where "our" money is going'.
Also similar in the respect that the IT contractor/the EU is perceived as 'the bad guy' and that they, and the deal with them, isn't without its problems, but that they are needed.

I'm not sure the membership should be given the vote on whether to can the project or not/what to do, since they (we) don't know the detail and the intricacies of the whys and wherefores.

You can't compare Chris Crossland with Teresa May
Audaxing Blog follow @vorsprungbike on

CrinklyLion

  • The one with devious, cake-pushing ways....
Re: AUK CHAIRMAN STATEMENT
« Reply #155 on: August 23, 2018, 02:51:34 pm »
Er, no. Pretty much everyone who has contact with the AUK IT backend feels it urgently needs some updating.

There was never ever any need for Brexit.
You can't compare Chris Crossland with Teresa May

*applause*

urban_biker

  • " . . .we all ended up here and like lads in the back of a Nova we sort of egged each other on...."
  • Known in the real world as Dave
Re: AUK CHAIRMAN STATEMENT
« Reply #156 on: August 23, 2018, 03:00:41 pm »
its occurred to me that AUK IT refresh is a little bit like Brexit.

Er, no. Pretty much everyone who has contact with the AUK IT backend feels it urgently needs some updating.

There was never ever any need for Brexit.

Brexit is definitely not in the spirit of Long Distance Cycling!
Owner of a languishing Langster

Re: AUK CHAIRMAN STATEMENT
« Reply #157 on: August 23, 2018, 03:11:39 pm »
its occurred to me that AUK IT refresh is a little bit like Brexit.

Er, no. Pretty much everyone who has contact with the AUK IT backend feels it urgently needs some updating.


... which most members  haven't  :-\



You can't compare Chris Crossland with Teresa May

don't think the analogy stretches that far  ;D
It is what it is. It's not what it's not, so it must be what it is.

Re: AUK CHAIRMAN STATEMENT
« Reply #158 on: August 23, 2018, 03:13:19 pm »
It's as well to emphasise that this sort of story is pretty widespread in the world of clubs and societies.

The one component that's missing is external funding. That usually brings with it a whole raft of diversity commitments that are being rehearsed on the other thread. That means that the organisation becomes answerable to external bodies.

AUK hasn't gone down that routes, so sorting the situation out is entirely within its own grasp.

Re: AUK CHAIRMAN STATEMENT
« Reply #159 on: August 23, 2018, 04:42:37 pm »
Quote
I'm not sure the membership should be given the vote on whether to can the project or not/what to do, since they (we) don't know the detail and the intricacies of the whys and wherefores.

Gulp, an end to the democratic process as we knew it? Chairman Mao would be pleased.

Quote
There was never ever any need for Brexit.

Yet another arcane example of giving the people the vote.

Re: AUK CHAIRMAN STATEMENT
« Reply #160 on: August 23, 2018, 08:05:33 pm »
The Brexit vote seems to provide a fine model....

That was a choice between continue as we are in the frying pan, hoping our politicians don't let things get too hot, or jump into a fire of completely unknown severity, with absolutely no agreement as to how we might protect ourselves from the flames. 

So with the idea of a ballot on the IT project.
What are the choices?

a) Allow the board to continue with the project, taking whatever steps are necessary to control future expenditure and bring forward proposals to fund it.

and what?

so far the suggestions seem to have been along the lines of:
b) i)   Abandon the project and do nothing, until aukweb and those who maintain it, "go under a bus" 
b) ii)  Abandon the project and have AUK volunteers redevelop aukweb
b) iii)  Ditch Control F1 and find another vendor to continue the project as envisaged
b) iv)  Ditch Control F1 and start with a completely different project, different vendor and different project managers
b) v)  Replace the Board and Project team with people who know what they are doing.
b) vi)  Fill in your own suggestion here

Although I suppose it doesn't have to a binary vote....

Of course, choosing anything other than a) or b) i) presupposes a whole new crop of volunteers to manage the project - who didn't step forward the first time around.


quixoticgeek

  • Mostly Harmless
Re: AUK CHAIRMAN STATEMENT
« Reply #161 on: August 23, 2018, 08:10:23 pm »
<snip>

So with the idea of a ballot on the IT project.
What are the choices?

a) Allow the board to continue with the project, taking whatever steps are necessary to control future expenditure and bring forward proposals to fund it.

and what?

so far the suggestions seem to have been along the lines of:
b) i)   Abandon the project and do nothing, until aukweb and those who maintain it, "go under a bus" 
b) ii)  Abandon the project and have AUK volunteers redevelop aukweb
b) iii)  Ditch Control F1 and find another vendor to continue the project as envisaged
b) iv)  Ditch Control F1 and start with a completely different project, different vendor and different project managers
b) v)  Replace the Board and Project team with people who know what they are doing.
b) vi)  Fill in your own suggestion here

Although I suppose it doesn't have to a binary vote....

Of course, choosing anything other than a) or b) i) presupposes a whole new crop of volunteers to manage the project - who didn't step forward the first time around.

And here my inner voting system geek twitches. If you were to have a vote based on those 6 options, you would need to make sure you use a preferential voting system, else you can get a win, with 1/6th of votes + 1, meaning that 5/6ths-1, didn't want that option.

Having a vote we would either need to use a preferential voting system, or have a series of run off elections...

J
--
Beer, bikes, and backpacking
http://b.42q.eu/

Re: AUK CHAIRMAN STATEMENT
« Reply #162 on: August 23, 2018, 08:16:40 pm »
I really don't think Brexit analogies are relevant in any meaningful way to this thread.

Re: AUK CHAIRMAN STATEMENT
« Reply #163 on: August 23, 2018, 09:22:47 pm »

b) i)   Abandon the project and do nothing, until aukweb and those who maintain it, "go under a bus"....

.......
b) v)  Replace the Board and Project team with people who know what they are doing.


I find this quite offensive especially as they are all volunteers offering their time to the organisation for free (just remind me of your contribution if you please?). As I understand the overspend is due to unforeseen circumstances, which by definition where not know at the time. I don't remember you foreseeing any of this when the project started.
www.milehousebarn.co.uk - Cycle Frienldy B&B in Nantwich, Chehsire

quixoticgeek

  • Mostly Harmless
Re: AUK CHAIRMAN STATEMENT
« Reply #164 on: August 23, 2018, 09:27:12 pm »
I really don't think Brexit analogies are relevant in any meaningful way to this thread.

It's the new godwin...

J
--
Beer, bikes, and backpacking
http://b.42q.eu/

Re: AUK CHAIRMAN STATEMENT
« Reply #165 on: August 23, 2018, 09:29:23 pm »
I really don't think Brexit analogies are relevant in any meaningful way to this thread.

It's the new godwin...

J

My thoughts exactly  ;D

LittleWheelsandBig

  • Whimsy Rider
Re: AUK CHAIRMAN STATEMENT
« Reply #166 on: August 23, 2018, 09:37:28 pm »
Some might not know that Somnolent is AUK's Event Services Director and Recorder.
Wheel meet again, don't know where, don't know when...

Re: AUK CHAIRMAN STATEMENT
« Reply #167 on: August 23, 2018, 09:41:01 pm »
the beauty of forums....
www.milehousebarn.co.uk - Cycle Frienldy B&B in Nantwich, Chehsire

Re: AUK CHAIRMAN STATEMENT
« Reply #168 on: August 23, 2018, 09:43:37 pm »
Some might not know that Somnolent is AUK's Event Services Director and Recorder.
Damn - outed!
 ;D

LittleWheelsandBig

  • Whimsy Rider
Re: AUK CHAIRMAN STATEMENT
« Reply #169 on: August 23, 2018, 09:44:32 pm »
I'm known for having a big mouth...
Wheel meet again, don't know where, don't know when...

CrinklyLion

  • The one with devious, cake-pushing ways....
Re: AUK CHAIRMAN STATEMENT
« Reply #170 on: August 23, 2018, 10:09:57 pm »
You?  No, the very model of discretion, restraint and reserve, surely!

Re: AUK CHAIRMAN STATEMENT
« Reply #171 on: August 23, 2018, 10:14:12 pm »
Don't call him Shirley....

CrinklyLion

  • The one with devious, cake-pushing ways....
Re: AUK CHAIRMAN STATEMENT
« Reply #172 on: August 23, 2018, 10:23:06 pm »

Re: AUK CHAIRMAN STATEMENT
« Reply #173 on: August 23, 2018, 10:47:50 pm »
b) vi)  Fill in your own suggestion here

My suggestion:-

Ditch F1. No more money to them if it can be helped. Ensure IP of what has been developed is handed over. Thanks but no more. (IMHO I don't think it will work out well to continue the relationship as is.)

Use AUK volunteers to get the existing code in to a more supportable state (i.e. to be able to run on the latest versions of php, whatever DB is in use, everything else). FF/FC needs not to be so critical (and I'm sure he doesn't want to be.)

Volunteers (and I will chuck my hat into the ring) continue to deal with the backend.
Transition the backend to an API style interface that the front end can use to get the data it needs to display. PHP can easily be used to return json/xml/etc, I'm not saying ditch PHP (it's not my preferred option but it works and it is there already).

Once a chunk of backend work has been done find a company to help with the front end of the site (user side first) as volunteers IME to do front end stuff rarely works well. It should be easier to create a stronger RFP once the backend is in a better state.
Various aspects of the backend need to be redesigned to cope with the way that AUK is evolving (DIYs, more GPX, ECEs, etc), this needs to be done in situ and as transparently as possible to the people dealing with the front end. API endpoints don't change as the code/DB behind them does unless necessary.
Redesign of backend needs to cope with the incomplete legacy data. It's relatively simple but I can see why a contracted company is going to claim this is harder than it is, that's where their profit margin and leverage often lies.

Any UI work requires a clear vision of what the user is expecting to see. I've no idea if that exists already. Plans for improvements (better visualisation of rides/routes/elevation, etc) needs to be considered from early on in the back end for ezample.

The backend UI (organisers/Admins) is just as important for the efficient operation of AUK, but can often be done without paid UI professionals.

I guess my main point is that there is a whole load of volunteer work that could be done on the back end (and a bit on the existing front end) that can be done before any more paid work needs to be done.

It'll probably take a load more of FF's time, but at least he knows that the person at the other end of the conversation isn't making a chunk of money each time.

To put it simply, I think the backend should be kept in house, and it needs to be rationalised by a group of volunteers (to spread the risk) before the front end is improved.

Anyway, that's my half arsed interpretation of it all. Happy to be told I'm wrong on any of it.

"Yes please" said Squirrel "biscuits are our favourite things."

quixoticgeek

  • Mostly Harmless
Re: AUK CHAIRMAN STATEMENT
« Reply #174 on: August 23, 2018, 10:54:26 pm »
b) vi)  Fill in your own suggestion here

My suggestion:-

Ditch F1. No more money to them if it can be helped. Ensure IP of what has been developed is handed over. Thanks but no more. (IMHO I don't think it will work out well to continue the relationship as is.)

<snip the sensible stuff>


Gets my vote, I'll even volunteer to help with overview, design stuff, I'm not a PHP programmer, and my embedded C programming background won't be much use, but I can problem be useful with integration/api stuff.

J
--
Beer, bikes, and backpacking
http://b.42q.eu/