Author Topic: AUK FINANCES AND WEBSITE PROJECT was: AUK CHAIRMAN STATEMENT  (Read 31400 times)

Re: AUK CHAIRMAN STATEMENT
« Reply #175 on: August 23, 2018, 11:15:50 pm »
Ensure IP of what has been developed is handed over.
This is possibly important, especially when a company that has the term IP in its name is involved!
It is what it is. It's not what it's not, so it must be what it is.

jiberjaber

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Re: AUK CHAIRMAN STATEMENT
« Reply #176 on: August 24, 2018, 01:01:29 am »
Just a note from reading through the board reports (trying to find the procurement contract for phase 1 but unable to)....  there are some GDPR items that the new website is expected to resolve - so I would urge some caution about citing that the current phase be halted - especially whilst I don't think we are in possession of all the facts. 

There is an option for any volunteers to offer their services on the actual thread on AUK forums - if you've got a good idea or skills to contribute, might be worth looking through that thread for the information to do so.  :thumbsup:
Regards,

Joergen

frankly frankie

  • I kid you not
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Re: AUK CHAIRMAN STATEMENT
« Reply #177 on: August 24, 2018, 10:59:50 am »
What are the choices?

a) Allow the board to continue with the project, taking whatever steps are necessary to control future expenditure and bring forward proposals to fund it.

and what?
so far the suggestions seem to have been along the lines of:
b) i)   Abandon the project and do nothing, until aukweb and those who maintain it, "go under a bus" 
b) ii)  Abandon the project and have AUK volunteers redevelop aukweb
b) iii)  Ditch Control F1 and find another vendor to continue the project as envisaged
b) iv)  Ditch Control F1 and start with a completely different project, different vendor and different project managers
b) v)  Replace the Board and Project ...

I think there is an (a) ii) - take Phase 1 to completion and then take stock - or was that the assumed starting point?

My personal strong preference would be (b) ii), but with the emphasis on the s in volunteers and with the proviso that any such people would be paid - but at AUK rates not industry rates.  I have already had two offers of help (3 including Greenbank's hat upthread - thanks GB) but I don't intend to move on it until the future clarifies a lot - I don't have any mandate to do anything anyway.  Let's face it I could have done the necessary work myself, and years ago, but for years there has been this promise of a replacement web project and there's no incentive to work on aukweb as long as this exists.
It's not dark yet but it's getting there.

Re: AUK CHAIRMAN STATEMENT
« Reply #178 on: August 24, 2018, 11:33:50 am »
What are the choices?

a) Allow the board to continue with the project, taking whatever steps are necessary to control future expenditure and bring forward proposals to fund it.

and what?
so far the suggestions seem to have been along the lines of:
b) i)   Abandon the project and do nothing, until aukweb and those who maintain it, "go under a bus" 
b) ii)  Abandon the project and have AUK volunteers redevelop aukweb
b) iii)  Ditch Control F1 and find another vendor to continue the project as envisaged
b) iv)  Ditch Control F1 and start with a completely different project, different vendor and different project managers
b) v)  Replace the Board and Project ...

I think there is an (a) ii) - take Phase 1 to completion and then take stock - or was that the assumed starting point?

My personal strong preference would be (b) ii), but with the emphasis on the s in volunteers and with the proviso that any such people would be paid - but at AUK rates not industry rates.  I have already had two offers of help (3 including Greenbank's hat upthread - thanks GB) but I don't intend to move on it until the future clarifies a lot - I don't have any mandate to do anything anyway.  Let's face it I could have done the necessary work myself, and years ago, but for years there has been this promise of a replacement web project and there's no incentive to work on aukweb as long as this exists.

+1

Re: AUK CHAIRMAN STATEMENT
« Reply #179 on: August 24, 2018, 11:39:54 am »
I have already had two offers of help (3 including Greenbank's hat upthread - thanks GB)

I just emailed Chris so that should be a bit more of a formal offer than a hat.
"Yes please" said Squirrel "biscuits are our favourite things."

Re: AUK CHAIRMAN STATEMENT
« Reply #180 on: August 24, 2018, 12:47:23 pm »
I’d hope a good chunk of the front end work Control F1 have done could be grafted onto AUKWeb (maybe via a PHP CMS) without much fuss  - content, design, CSS, templates etc.


Re: AUK CHAIRMAN STATEMENT
« Reply #181 on: August 24, 2018, 02:52:54 pm »
Ok, time to put my head over the parapet, now it seems a bit calmer. As some of you might know, I'm one of the IT delegates, seconded at the 2016 reunion to look mainly at the GIS (mapping) area of the IT refresh, specifically tools for calculating climbing/AAA and minimum distance values that would improve transparency and remove our dependence on external sources. My background is Linux system admin and some coding though I'm not really a full software developer.

My understanding was that the board wanted to move away from a reliance on volunteers and put in place a professionally written and maintained solution, and I can understand why as I'm a case in point - with the sudden retirement of the old AAASec my AAA prototype was pressed into service for use by the new AAA man but due to competing demands on my time (and my general crappiness at finishing projects), after a year I still haven't managed to deliver a full production-spec version that could be made available to DIY orgs and members, plus documented and published to github for peer review, etc.

I was peripherally involved in the selection of Control F1, primarily scoring their GIS credentials (about as bad as the rest basically), don't think it's worth dwelling too much on this now, suffice to say I would have much preferred a solution completely based on FOSS tools but wasn't really prepared to fight that corner, there was a fairly exhaustive selection procedure and at the time their bid seemed pretty reasonable, though the escalation in projected costs means that I can no longer see this being feasible for us as an organisation.

I'm a hands-on kind of person (as anyone who's ridden my events should know), I'm not that good at delegating, project managing, budgeting, (or debating in online forums) etc. which is why I decided against going for the IT Director position when it came up, despite so many volunteers working really hard on this project none of us have been prepared to put our neck on the line for that role, and having seen some of the reactions here and in the AUK forum, I can understand why, however it pains me to see this unfilled and would be great if we could see this addressed.

However, at least the Chairman's statement has helped focus our minds and galvanised members to come forward to offer services, so I would add my support to a new approach, looking at what can be taken from phase one, and tackling further phases ourselves, via an open API, etc, as discussed above. I'm not a development methodology expert but would propose ideally doing this in the form of sprints - interested parties meeting somewhere for a weekend, defining and delivering particular milestones on a fairly regular basis.
“That slope may look insignificant, but it's going to be my destiny" - Fitzcarraldo

mattc

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Re: AUK CHAIRMAN STATEMENT
« Reply #182 on: August 24, 2018, 03:02:10 pm »
I'm not a development methodology expert but would propose ideally doing this in the form of sprints - interested parties meeting somewhere for a weekend, defining and delivering particular milestones on a fairly regular basis.
I trust there will be a new badge for those that ride there.

(Not sure a Long Distance blah-blah club should be promoting sprints, but a badge would keep me happy with the idea ... )
Has never ridden RAAM
---------
No.11  Because of the great host of those who dislike the least appearance of "swank " when they travel the roads and lanes. - From Kuklos' 39 Articles

frankly frankie

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Re: AUK CHAIRMAN STATEMENT
« Reply #183 on: August 24, 2018, 03:48:49 pm »
O is that what a sprint is. Penny drops.
It's not dark yet but it's getting there.

Phil W

AUK CHAIRMAN STATEMENT
« Reply #184 on: August 24, 2018, 04:18:18 pm »
O is that what a sprint is. Penny drops.

Think of a sprint as a small project where the horizon is at most one month away.  At the end of the sprint you should have produced something ready for release.

A positive is that as the end user you see new features and improvements arriving regularly rather waiting years for the delivery of a large project scoped years ago when your requirements were different. A downside, well just look at how damn often Windows 10 is doing updates

Re: AUK CHAIRMAN STATEMENT
« Reply #185 on: August 24, 2018, 04:28:27 pm »
... A downside, well just look at how damn often Windows 10 is doing updates

Also - Sprint leads can often view testing as "Something the client does after the update".

Re: AUK CHAIRMAN STATEMENT
« Reply #186 on: August 26, 2018, 10:37:27 pm »
My personal strong preference would be (b) ii), but with the emphasis on the s in volunteers and with the proviso that any such people would be paid - but at AUK rates not industry rates.

This seems like the only viable option. Most of the others amount to buying another pig in another poke, which will presumably also turn out to be colossally expensive. I could not agree more with Joel Spolsky's often-quoted assertion that you are never better off rewriting a complex system from scratch rather than sticking with the devil you know.

I think the AUK Chairman's statement is optimistic in that it supposes that piling on another quarter of a million quid will bring success. One has to consider the possibility that it will just lose another quarter of a million quid and that recovery of the money from the contractor will prove impractical.

It also seems optimistic to assume, as the AUK Chairman's Statement seems to, that the existing membership can simply be hit up for more cash as needed. As I understand it, many members ride relatively few rides each, and a non-trivial number ride none. I ride the London Sightseer once or twice a year; while I enjoy Arrivee, a sudden whopping increase in the membership fee to pay for a possibly-doomed-and-unnecessary [1] IT project isn't going to extract the cash from me; it'll reduce my contribution to one or two non-member entry fees a year.

[1] I appreciate from what Frankie says that _something_ must be done, but "something must be done; this is something; therefore this must be done" is, of course, a fallacy.

FifeingEejit

  • Not Small
Re: AUK CHAIRMAN STATEMENT
« Reply #187 on: August 26, 2018, 10:49:35 pm »
... A downside, well just look at how damn often Windows 10 is doing updates

Also - Sprint leads can often view testing as "Something the client does after the update".

What's that, fail fast, fail often and do it in public... aye I'd kill people doing that...
Thought wasn't working that way when I had to investigate a bug that was a possible cause of death...  ::-)

hillbilly

Re: AUK CHAIRMAN STATEMENT
« Reply #188 on: August 27, 2018, 11:51:38 am »
. Removed . (Was more appropriate for forum.audax.uk)

jiberjaber

  • ... Fancy Pants \o/ ...
  • ACME S&M^2
Re: AUK CHAIRMAN STATEMENT
« Reply #189 on: August 27, 2018, 12:43:46 pm »
. Removed . (Was more appropriate for forum.audax.uk)

Quote
The forum is off the air for a while - but we'll be back!
   :facepalm:
Regards,

Joergen

Re: AUK CHAIRMAN STATEMENT
« Reply #190 on: August 29, 2018, 03:07:47 pm »
I've been a member of AUK for 8 years, but am unable to even register on the stupid auk forum because of this:
An Error Has Occurred!
Sorry, registration is currently disabled.

So perhaps we can discuss this issue here where ALL the members can actually read it ....

CrinklyLion

  • The one with devious, cake-pushing ways....
Re: AUK CHAIRMAN STATEMENT
« Reply #191 on: August 29, 2018, 03:25:26 pm »
You don't need to register, iirc.  Your auk number is your username and the password you can get reset by clicking the 'i forgot' link and they'll send you an email to the address they have on record for you.

I _think_ the initial password is whatever your initial password for the auk site was.

Manotea

  • Where there is doubt...
Re: AUK CHAIRMAN STATEMENT
« Reply #192 on: August 29, 2018, 03:33:27 pm »
Yes, you log into the AUK forum using the uid & pw you use for the AUK website, either the original pw assigned by AUK when you joined or your current one with letters in lower case (the latter is a function of the AUK website, not the forum...).

Re: AUK CHAIRMAN STATEMENT
« Reply #193 on: August 29, 2018, 03:33:57 pm »
You don't need to register, iirc.  Your auk number is your username and the password you can get reset by clicking the 'i forgot' link and they'll send you an email to the address they have on record for you.

I _think_ the initial password is whatever your initial password for the auk site was.

Site does not recognise my AUK number or email address, so nope unfortunately.

CrinklyLion

  • The one with devious, cake-pushing ways....
Re: AUK CHAIRMAN STATEMENT
« Reply #194 on: August 29, 2018, 03:43:41 pm »
Can you log in OK to the auk website, but not the forum, or can you not log in to either?

I had to do a search on my inboxes to figure out which email address I'd used and that they'd therefore have on record and ask for a pwd reset, but it worked OK....

Re: AUK CHAIRMAN STATEMENT
« Reply #195 on: August 29, 2018, 03:45:16 pm »
I've been a member of AUK for 8 years, but am unable to even register on the stupid auk forum because of this:
An Error Has Occurred!
Sorry, registration is currently disabled.

So perhaps we can discuss this issue here where ALL the members can actually read it ....

It's an issue with the mobile site. I get it as well.
On Android you can go menu, and tick "desktop site".
It is what it is. It's not what it's not, so it must be what it is.

Re: AUK CHAIRMAN STATEMENT
« Reply #196 on: August 29, 2018, 03:47:55 pm »
Can you log in OK to the auk website, but not the forum, or can you not log in to either?

I had to do a search on my inboxes to figure out which email address I'd used and that they'd therefore have on record and ask for a pwd reset, but it worked OK....

Yeah I can get onto the AUK site.
The password reset button errors as well so it's difficult to know whether it knows my email address or not really ....
I personally don't know my login or password to anything as keychain does it all for me  ;D

Re: AUK CHAIRMAN STATEMENT
« Reply #197 on: August 29, 2018, 03:48:26 pm »
I've been a member of AUK for 8 years, but am unable to even register on the stupid auk forum because of this:
An Error Has Occurred!
Sorry, registration is currently disabled.

So perhaps we can discuss this issue here where ALL the members can actually read it ....

It's an issue with the mobile site. I get it as well.
On Android you can go menu, and tick "desktop site".

I'm on Safari on my Mac at the moment though.

Re: AUK CHAIRMAN STATEMENT
« Reply #198 on: August 29, 2018, 03:56:30 pm »
I've been a member of AUK for 8 years, but am unable to even register on the stupid auk forum because of this:
An Error Has Occurred!
Sorry, registration is currently disabled.

So perhaps we can discuss this issue here where ALL the members can actually read it ....

It's an issue with the mobile site. I get it as well.
On Android you can go menu, and tick "desktop site".

I'm on Safari on my Mac at the moment though.

Oh right, possibly a different issue then, sorry
It is what it is. It's not what it's not, so it must be what it is.

Re: AUK CHAIRMAN STATEMENT
« Reply #199 on: August 29, 2018, 04:16:44 pm »

Site does not recognise my AUK number or email address, so nope unfortunately.

I think they just don't want your sort on the forum.  ;)